Retro already?

[@jonyellis]

Clive has a new cutting mat? It's a new era.

[@MrWarwick15]

Like the look but it seems to cause more 'KZbin compression wierdness' than before for me over here in France watching in 1080p. The 'mat' goes from being sharp at the top of the screen to being totally without detail at the bottom! Weird? Is it just me? It's kinda like there is much more 'stuff' going on for the video compression to handle than before?

[@Double_Vision]

Say what you want, I work in technology, and you can't stop me from fearing change.

[@nimoy007]

​​@@MrWarwick15 Same here in the US. Didn't notice it until you pointed it out. Damn KZbin automatically changed my resolution to 480p, so I suspect it looked slightly better for you.

[@volvo09]

No it's not... The entire thing was just charred by a "small incident".

[@volvo09]

​@@MrWarwick15 but you're looking at the item, or the drawing, if the background gets goofy that's just less data needed for unnecessary stuff. If he had an animation of waves or blowing leaves as his table the whole video would get all goofy with compression artifacts... There's only so much throughput allotted in a video encoding method.

[@AraCarrano]

Love the distinct sound of the starters, especially in very low ambient temperatures.

[@UberAlphaSirus]

plink, plink plink, plink.

[@99Noggin]

@@UberAlphaSirus Plink plink plink… for days when the lamp is worn out!

[@nooboard]

thats the only positive of this tech. They are good for horror video szenes. ^^

[@NGC1433]

I recently inherited an apartment. it had one of those old absolutely horrible fluorescent fixtures for tour tubes on the ceiling. Without any diffuser. I switched it on and the room filled with a buzz of a bag of angry wasps. And after a couple these high pitched pings the room exploded with light... Cold and lifeless, absolutely blinding, unwelcoming as Antarctic shore. But all these sensations would not be so horrible if I didn't know that a child grew up in this room. Studied through secondary and university... My uncle grew up there... Fuck... Poor child.

[@brandtharen]

Plink, plink, plink, bzzzz (Most of my lamps have magnetic ballasts)

[@electriciants7927]

I will stand by fluorescent lights forever. There operation is intriguing. They also last a heck of a long time, are reliable, especially preheat and age in a cool way. Keep these fluorescent videos coming! I enjoy the breakdown of how they are operated and function and I'm still trying to understand how it all comes together.

[@Subgunman]

Except for the junk that comes from China. I have had compact fluorescent lamps in the States that have lasted 10+ years in service while CF lamps here in the EU that were made in factories in the EU last just as long, however with the mass influx of junk from the Far East I was replacing CF lamps once a year. Same goes for LED replacements anything coming from the East is total junk and not worth the money.

[@99Noggin]

In some respects yes, but having been involved in lamp manufacturing for many years in the uk and then importing from China I can say the factories there I was involved with were at least as good as ours (ours were mostly out of date), some were better. The caveat is that in sourcing from China etc there’s a choice - quality or price. If its a case of putting the cheapest product in your catalogue or on your shelf, then quality will definitely suffer.

[@sonicdash3818]

I am right with you on the note fluorescent lights

[@peterbrown6224]

Thank you. My grandfather tinkered in his spare time, and after he died, I discovered treasures of ballasts, starters, and other wizardry that he'd sadly never had the time to teach me about. Fast forward, and I'm attempting to resuscitate these blighters in my recently-deceased parents' home's garage.

[@OffendingTheOffendable]

Old ballasts need to be disposed of properly

[@steveosshenanigans]

@@OffendingTheOffendabledon’t you mean oiled filled capacitors ?

[@NGC1433]

@@steveosshenanigans There was a time when they filled ballasts with same nasty oil. Lots of it.

[@savedemperor8024]

@@OffendingTheOffendable just because they are suposed to be disposed properly doesn't mean that he has to do it as well 😂

[@BTW...]

@@savedemperor8024 Do you realise the health threat from those old oil filled devices? Research PCB, if you can.

[@chriswilson1853]

This is what really pisses me off Clive, not just in the case of LED lights but cars, washing machines, you name it. The manufacturers all strive for efficiency so they get an A energy rating, yet the same appliances can't as easily be repaired. Or if they can, it will cost you a lot more and/or create more waste. When a headlamp, rear cluster etc on your car died it was a few quid tops for a new bulb. Now you have to replace a £1000 LED unit. Your fancy new washing machine may have an A rating and save you a few quid per year, but because you can't replace the drum bearings in most modern machines, you end up junking the machine after a few years.

[@stepheneyles2198]

I'm glad you raised this one - I've been thinking about car headlights/rear lights for ages. The days we can carry spare bulbs are limited, unfortunately...

[@andygozzo72]

@@stepheneyles2198 i think it should be made a legal requirement for whatever the light producing device within the 'fitting' is, it should be easily replaceable, preferably user/owner replaceable ..

[@gabotron94]

replace a £1000 cluster unit and have to hack the firmware because they all have serial numbers and your other option is getting it done at a dealer who will charge 5x that... I'll keep my mechanical speedometer for now thanks

[@the_expidition427]

It's a game environmentialists, governments, and investors play

[@treelineresearch3387]

Working as intended by regulatory capture.

[@echothehusky]

I dislike how this ban will create a huge a mount of waste, fitting works but can't buy a replacement tube, have to throw the whole lot away. Then in a few years you have to throw the whole LED fitting away when the electronics or LEDs die. Some of the old T12 tubes lasted decades of use, when I rewired my grandmothers house last year the 4 fluorescent fittings there were over 60 years old and still working fine. I've already had to replace one of the new LED fittings that stopped working...

[@bigclivedotcom]

Not to mention the huge surge of lighting conversion "experts" who will use swarms of cheap labour given a liability transfer slideshow before being let loose on live wiring.

[@frankwilson2607]

Uni where I worked switched the CFL hall and ceiling lights to LEDs three years ago... fast forward, most of the dome hall lights in my building all packed in. It appears that they had an IR proximity dimmer which piggybacked onto the LED control, and the dimmers all stopped working. The more complex circuit simply had more engineering bugs show up. The CFLs in other buildings which are the same vintage all still work 15+ years on.

[@RIXRADvidz]

Somewhere on the Isle of Man down in a cellar or up in the loft will be boxes of ''lost technology artifacts'' devices and items who's function and purpose will have been lost as the knowledge was always stored in the mind of a brilliant man, who would come out weekly and free ideas for people to think and ponder, Big Clive is his name. nice chap.

[@100SteveB]

I have florescent tubes in my workshop that must be 20+ years old, most of them still running the original tubes. Only thing I have had to replace from time to time was the starters. Compare that to the LED lamps in my house, most of which fail after a few short years (if they last that long), or they lose their brightness over time. I think we should say a prayer for the worlds landfills where no doubt a lot of our 'throw away' new electronics end up. So annoying that so many light fittings these days are not serviceable - if the leds or their circuitry fail you just throw it away and buy a complete new fitting. Unless of course you have knowledge of how to repair them yourself. But that is a long way from simply being able to change out a lamp. And it's not just at the consumer end of things. Was watching a video just yesterday that warned that over the next decade or two the world will be inundated with millions of tons of old solar panels. Like your average consumer fitting, recycling this stuff is not easy. And don't even get me started about all the EV batteries that will have to be dealt with in the future. Humans have become very good at manufacturing things, they need to become equally as good at recycling them too.

[@raisagorbachov]

Yes... LED brake lights on vehicles. If an LED fails, you have to replace the whole assembly not just the bulb as it was with old lights. Additionally, the LED bulbs are made of funky materials that won't break down. Incandescent bulbs break down - the glass breaks into smaller and smaller fragments and becomes just grit in the soil. The steel rusts to become oxides and the plaster breaks down and joins the soil too. There is no pollution. That plastic crud - burn than and it releases toxins. It won't ever break down in the environment either.

[@fredfred2363]

Yep, same. I have 36 58W lamps in my workshop, from at least 15 years ago. And they're all using high frequency balasts. Very bright, and relatively efficient. I think that they'll last another 10 years the way things are going. Impressive.

[@jam99]

Consumers are the only ones who can change this. It is all in the manufacturer's interests, not the consumer's. Complain. Support "right to repair".

[@MattOGormanSmith]

@@raisagorbachov There is a small amount of mercury in every fluorescent. It's a mercury vapour disharge tube after all.

[@AcidDeathRitual]

Early LED bulbs last very long, but your typical scumbags saw a multi billion dollar opportunity and now the only way to get long lasting ones are expensive "museum" grade bulbs.

[@SeanBZA]

I still have a few of the first commercial CFL lamps, where you used a PL lamp and a ballast, some electronic, some magnetic, that you could fit into a standard lamp socket. I used to repair them as well, they had a few standard failure modes, fusible resistors that died, and bridge rectifier diodes that went short circuit, and a capacitor that went open circuit. As they cost then the equivalent of $30 and a fix was under $1, well worth fixing them. The magnetic ones you just changed the tube, and away it went, with them outlasting almost all of the CFL or LED fixtures by a large margin. On 24/7/365 they would last 2 years with good quality Osram or Phillips tubes ( made in the EU of course, the GE ones made anywhere were complete junk, unless you had the ones fully made in the USA before the plant was closed and moved to Mexico), and were reliable, just needing a new PL tube when the old one failed. That kit is actually a retrofit kit, designed to be used to convert a standard brick style bulkhead fitting from a 60W B22D incandescent lamp to PL, either PL7 or PL9, and would attach using the same screw mounting holes used for the bayonet holder, and fit the lamp in the existing cover. I did do a fair number of those, as it was a lot faster in buildings to retrofit, using the old fixtures in good condition, and only replace a few that were failed, using them for spares to fix the others. Made lamp changes something you simply did as inspection once a week, and pull out a ladder to change a lamp a monthly thing, not like incandescent, where you were changing a half dozen a week at times. Box of lamps would last a decade, instead of a year.

[@NaoPb]

I have collected quite a few of those of the Sylvania Lynx Diamant variety with the magnetic ballast. But also some of different brands with electronic ballast that seem to have issues to start on tubes other than the ones they came with.

[@tobus71]

I bought a desk lamp with 2 fluorescent tubes 30 odd years ago, its still working and i have never had to replace the tubes.

[@CanizaM]

There are some videos on here of the very first tubes (late 30s) and they still work. I think preheat gives the best life. I have decades old tubes in my house that are also working.

[@robt2151]

I have one such desklamp but it needs a new tube. I have not been able to find one. The energy used in earning enough to replace the lamp with a led fixture far exceeds the saving from any purported reduction in running costs - another own-goal by the eco-idiots.

[@BTW...]

@@CanizaM Note: ALL fluro tube light output drops off after 1 year of use.

[@BTW...]

@@robt2151 Go without then.

[@rexsceleratorum1632]

@@robt2151 12V adapter and an LED strip instead of the tube? Clive had a video about it. The material costs involved in replacing LED's should be far lower than the glass and mercury of fluorescent. The real problem is treating things like heatsinks as disposable when they really shouldn't be.

[@chrisd6719]

The issue with LED fittings for me is how they are non maintainable, the whole lot gets discarded when the driver inevitably fails, and usually much earlier than it should. To me that's even worse for the environment than the traditional lighting its replacing. I have an intense dislike for LED streetlights for this reason, much higher failure rate than the old low pressure sodium fixtures, which where, by far, the best and most efficient source of street lighting, with fixtures lasting decades and the lamps lasting equally as long they were just about as energy efficient per Lumen as LED and, providing the tubes are recycled correctly, better overall for the environment with much less going to landfill over the course of the fixtures service life. The same goes for fluorescent, gone have the days of simply swapping out a dead glass lamp that could be easily recycled.... It's the whole fitting now🤦🏻‍♂️ a step back for sure.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

Absolutely Chris, given the REALLY low amount of mercury in modern fluoro tubes the envionmental impact of the TUBE is minimal, I think it's mostly aimed at the lumens per watt, with the rest swept aside :(... and re Streelights, I will remove fuses from flashing LED crap... and drop the CARRIER into the column base, No regrets

[@brianleeper5737]

In the USA a bunch of the LED streetlights are turning purple and blue because of a manufacturer's defect in the phosphor. This has been going on for 2-3 years now and they're not getting replaced.

[@crunchyfrog555]

This is a big problem about why we are absolutely screwed, because not only do we have shitwits who don't blieve in climate change, but those who are actually doing something often don't know enough about the problem to do it effectibvely. Look at the plastic straw ban - a knee jerk reaction which essentailly reaplced with paper straws, something that just creates another problem. I can't imagine how much worse it'll be in ten years time when we've had certain fairly major issues and panic starts.

[@marcogenovesi8570]

@Gazr Gazr it's 5000 hours if not overdriven by a crappy driver module, in most instances that number is just a lie

[@gordonirving24]

UK lighting suppliers pushed LED lanterns at high cost. Tried to say sox lamps were no longer available. Plenty of Sox lamps still used in mainland Europe!

[@PaulSteMarie]

The inductor is also giving a voltage spike when the starter turns off which strikes the lamp.

[@adamw.8579]

And also as main function limites lamp current. Two functions in one simple choke.

[@olmostgudinaf8100]

I was just going to say that. As the bimetal in the starter cools down and breaks the contact, the current flowing through the inductor has nowhere to go and causes a voltage spike that ignites the main tube. It is unpredictable when this happens. The voltage spike is not high enough when the contact is broken close to the trough of the wave of the AC the whole thing is powered from, so it has to try again. Hence several flashes before it fully lights up.

[@markedis5902]

I wrote a treatise on fluorescent lighting as part of my O level electronics exam. I’m feeling like an antique now.

[@GeoffRiley]

Just having taken O levels makes me feel like an antique! 😁

[@Demiglitch]

Alright Pops, time to get you back to bed.

[@GeoffRiley]

@@Demiglitch 🤣🤣🤣💤

[@jkbrown5496]

As these are put out of date, we'll need videos like this more than ever. In the steam heating industry, some like Dan Holohan has spent a lot of time recovering the knowledge of the dead men. Systems still in use, but the knowledge to run them efficiently lost. Or needing adaption as government regulations mandated boilers without steam chests to dry the steam meaning replacements need bigger header piping.

[@Jon-em4kc]

Plenty of knowledge to run steam systems efficiently! It's what I've done for the last 13 years for industrial customers all over the UK 😂

[@jkbrown5496]

@@Jon-em4kc I should have been more specific about low pressure steam heating for climate control in buildings. Lot of old buildings in the northern US with systems installed 100-130 years ago that aren't plug and play with modern mandates.

[@SqualidsargeStudios]

Clove you might wanna buy a pink marker and write your link down over the black marker link, since the link is barely visible.

[@Gpbattersby]

Hi Clive, I’m an electrician, never did understand the physics of what was going on inside a fluorescent lamp, this has really helped, thanks so much for your great content 👍

[@Weissenschenkel]

Somehow I managed to have the three types here: one like yours (ballast is separated from the lamp), ballast and lamp as one piece, and ballast for E27 sockets with a detachable lamp. 1st and 3rd models are older than the 2nd one. Great video, as always!

[@jec_ecart]

These lights are good, especially with electronic ballast. The glow is very soft. Not harsh like led bulbs.

[@LabArlyn]

Yup, they glows out light pretty much as natural as sunlight. 🍓

[@jec_ecart]

@@LabArlyn yes. I remember these were code 840. Sunlight output. Extremely hard to get in India. I had gotten hold of 5 pieces. Have been holding on to them since a decade. Cherishing them in very select locations.

[@ssj3gohan456]

@@LabArlyn I don't understand people saying this recently. No they didn't, they were terrible! 840 lamps have a really discontinuous spectrum of light output, way worse than both incandescent and LED. The only 'sunlight' aspect of them was the CCT.

[@LabArlyn]

@@ssj3gohan456 I don't really understand about it. The statement I made is my opinion that I judge with my bare eyes. With it, I found that flourescent light emmits natural sunlight looking light.

[@RJARRRPCGP]

I have been noticing the strange sterile-ness with LEDs that were installed in the late-2010s in stores! (IIRC)

[@rustymotor]

Love the fluro lamps and the blink happy start ups of older, worn out tubes. I found a box of NOS Philips Prismatic CFL lamps at a local recycling centre, these are the forerunner of the more familiar electronic CFL lamp. These ones are heavy due to the choke and glass dome but are quality made.

[@NaoPb]

Let me tell you something funny. The glass dome barely weights anything and is quite a lot thinner than it would seem. The weight is mostly in the choke or ballast or how you'd like to call it.

[@rustymotor]

@@NaoPb One of the lamps was dropped and glass broken, Yes the glass shell is quite thin, anyway I managed to remove the remains of the actual tube and relamped it with a similar size and rating slim line fluro tube while retaining the original magnetic ballast and starter. It is now above my welding bench as a task light, maybe a waste of time fixing it but why not!

[@HowardLeVert]

I have one of those Philips lamps in my landing light fitting; it's ideal when I stumble out of bed on a dark morning as it takes time to reach full brightness, thus saving my eyes. It's also the longest-lived of all my "energy efficient" lamps - probably fifteen years now.

[@bigclivedotcom]

I bought one of the heavy ones when they first became available. I put it in a fitting that pulls down on a retracting cable and it immediately extended down to its full length with the weight.

[@fp4man542]

I bought one of the Philips SL18 Prismatic lamps back in the 1980s, when they first became available. Just found it again, in the back of a cupboard. Powered it up, and after a couple of "tink, tink" noises, it started just as well as it did almost 40 years ago.

[@ruben_balea]

I imagine that the manufacturers not only agreed but pushed the ban, who wants to sell a fluorescent tube every 15 years when they can sell an "equivalent" LED every 15 months? Or a well made LED equivalent that in theory can last 15 years but sells for 20 times the price of a fluorescent tube.

[@jbalazer]

Over 15 years, you'll spend far more on electricity than you would for the fluorescent tube. The cost of the tube is negligible. If you really need long life from an LED lamp, it still makes sense to pay extra for a long-life LED lamp. It pays for itself in saved power.

[@KallePihlajasaari]

@@jbalazer A driving reason for leaving filament bulbs was the short lifetime, however this was artificially generated. If you ran the bulbs at 90% supply voltage you got 3 times the life and if you used them at 110% you got 1/3 of the life. Manufacturers all colluded to make bulbs for a lower voltage rating than the local supply and all bulbs wore out faster than needed. In South Africa one region had 250V mains for a long time and bulbs sold there were labelled for 250V. When those bulbs were used in the 230V areas they never burnt out. The other scam was halogen bulbs. They give colder light but have to burn out due to the constant fast evaporation and sublimation of the filament over time because they do not work at reduced voltage properly so will fail.

[@somedutchguy7582]

You are sadly mistaken. Because of their mercury content, fluorescents _should_ have been banned under RoHS regulations in 2006. They were exempt, though, because at that time LED was not yet a viable alternative. By 2012, this had changed however, but, rather than do the right thing, the manufacturers fought tooth and nail to push back the ban. Remember that linear tubes basically haven't changed since the late 1950's, so the factories that make them are essentially 'free'. It costs less than 50 cents to manufacture a tube and they sell about 150 million each year in the EU alone.

[@KallePihlajasaari]

@@somedutchguy7582 Yep and most of the filament and fluorescent factories are in the developing countries because the wholesale profits are small. The LED lamp is more profitable because you often change the fitting and consumer lamps fail much faster than old tech. So profit is what dictates what happens, health and old factories are abandoned as convenient.

[@Radfordperson]

I recently had a EPC (Energy Performance Certificate) on my house. I was intrigued to see that the ancient 4 foot florescent fitting in the kitchen was still classed as a low energy unit.

[@TheSpotify95]

The term "low energy" has changed over the years - a 4ft T8 fluorescent would be "low energy" compared to a 70W halogen or 100W incandescent, but not an LED. When we last moved, we got a low energy rating for out light bulbs because most of them were CFL - this was before LEDs were widespread. A lot of the bulbs out there were still incandescent or halogen, probably from when people stocked up on them.

[@straightpipediesel]

Linear fluorescents have for a long time had better efficacy than LEDs, being close to 100 lm/W. (CFLs are a different story) Their issue is mercury, the high color temperature, and low CRI. In the US, it's these requirements of light quality, in combination with efficacy, is leading to the bans. In commercial applications, the longer life of LED significantly saves labor costs.

[@nicewhenearnedrudemostlyel489]

​@straightpipediesel riiiiiight... Mercury makes sense, because people are stupid. That being said, they already fixed that like they fixed hot coffee burns: Put a caution label on it. The rest has no bearing on any legalities anywhere ever.

[@Jon-hx7pe]

@@straightpipediesel they're available in lower color temps and decent cri. mostly t8s and t5s.

[@randacnam7321]

@@straightpipediesel Longer LED life is dubious. They put in a bunch of LED retrofit lamps in the office at a previous job, and 10% were dead in 2 months. The dead ones weren't replaced for a long time, and the ones that still worked were visibly dimmer than the lamps that replaced the dead ones (identical lamps from the same purchase lot, so it wasn't a matter of different or improved lamps).

[@jamescorvett]

many years ago someone gave me a case and a half of these bulbs, new. but i never had a device to plug them into. now i know how to drive them. Thanks Clive !!

[@dashcamandy2242]

Being that I deliver papers for a "living," I drive past the same houses literally every day. The number of residents who have LED flood lamps on their houses, with the characteristic flash of a failed power supply, is alarmingly-high. I've even seen an A-frame house with hard-to-reach indoor recessed cans (I think you guys call them "downlights") flashing brightly at 5 AM, which must be annoying as heck as it is his primary lighting source. It seems we still can't make a LED bulb capable of lasting as long as a basic tungsten lamp (at least in the US), which is quite disappointing. Today, the incandescent-shaped halogen bulb over my computer blew out. It lasted only a few weeks longer than the Dollar General LED bulb it replaced... PAIN IN THE BUTT as the "man cave" has 10-foot ceilings and I gotta go drag the ladder in here again. 😠Well, if I gotta drag the ladder in here, might as well swap the entire fixture out for the two-bulb 4-foot fluorescent tube fixture I have sitting in a box, and slap in the LED retrofit tubes.

[@enterprize-zi8dd]

Just use the fluorescent lamps. The led retrofits are crap and barely save anything. (Where I live it would save .15 cents per year if it was on all year long.)

[@scratchdog2216]

The old round Circline kitchen ceiling fixtures are my total fave.

[@HowardLeVert]

One of my relatives still has one of those prismatic glass circular fluorescent fittings in his lounge.

[@Friendroid]

Above my backyard door, I have a 120cm T5 G13 1200LM fluorescent tube that's been there for close to 20 years. All I've had to do was refinish the armature due to the effects of the sun on the plastic. I wish my led bulbs would last 1/4 of that.

[@GashimahironChl]

I think those ol' fluorescent tubes still have a place and shouldn't go away completely, they're particularly handy in a situation where you set them up in a place where they'll be on all the time and maintenance is difficult, while using a little bit extra power won't topple the economic tower of cards.

[@jbalazer]

Long-life LED lamps are manufactured. They last longer than fluorescents, use less power, and emit light of better quality. But you need to look for certifiable long-life products, not just any old LED that says "up to 50,000 hours" on the box. Typical LED lamp designs run the LEDs hard and skimp on driver components like capacitors. That's really not such a bad thing for most use cases. LED lamps are quite inexpensive for what you get. But with a few simple design changes, LED lamp can last longer: under-run the emitters, provide adequate heat sinking and ventilation, and spec better quality electronic components. Fluorescent lamps are rightfully obsolete. In the early days of LED lamps, they were designed with big honking heat sinks and quality all around. That kind of design made sense when the LEDs themselves were very expensive. But it made the entire lamp very expensive. I have bulbs that cost $20-30 each. They still work, too. But they are obsolete: inefficient, and with poor light quality by today's standards. And with LEDs as cheap as they are now, it doesn't make sense to pack so much aluminum and quality into a bulb. Light bulbs are consumable products. They degrade, wear out, and die. They are disposable, and any bulb you bought five years ago is already obsolete. Be glad that LED light bulbs are cheap.

[@lasskinn474]

you know why i replace tubes with leds when the light goes out? would have to buy new fixtures to put new tubes into and new ballasts too. it's not that the standard changed or something it's just that they crumble on me...

[@NiHaoMike64]

@@jbalazer Or buy dimmable LEDs 2-3 times as bright as you need, run them at reduced power.

[@NinoJoel]

Even if there are longlife leds I still agree that there are areas where leds are just not the better fit. Especially on areas where the runn time is really low. The perfect example would be industrial facility heating / water supply rooms. They get used 4 times a year and by the time the led gets 15 years old or sooner the electronics fail . The neon tubes with balast work forever. I've had some way over 50 years old that start with a problem and they probably will do so for another 50 years. Price is also a big factor. If you use it twice a year a led will not benefit power consumption wise

[@nooboard]

If you have a tube which lasts 50 years and will again do 50 years so what? Then you are dead nevertheless. Nobody will steal them. ^^ If they break, then ya, then your assumption was wrong and you need another solution. I don't get this "reverse-thinking". Are you one of that guys which have 1000s of classic light bulbs hoarded in the basement? ^^

[@doshtechvideos]

More crap forced upon us. I've changed more dead LEDs out than fluorescents. We still run entirely 5 and 6ft fluoros at work, most of the fittings are from the 70's, the roof leaks or has leaked on most of them (and they're not IP rated), they are all covered in a thick layer of grinding dust, and they keep soldiering on. I'd rather carry on changing a tube every 8 years or so rather than ripping the whole thing out and replacing it. But hey they best keep pumping all this cheap e-waste out, as that's better for the environment. Great video as always 👍

[@RJARRRPCGP]

LEDs, most likely would be a fire hazard under the same conditions! At least a ton of them out there. For LEDs, I trust Cree and Soraa the most.

[@nicksfans]

I'm not a huge fan of compact fluorescents, but the linear tubes and Circlines are another story. I'm in the States, so I can still get new ones for the time being, but the quality has gone so far downhill that it's often preferable to find old-stock lamps instead. I'm sad to see this old technology go, but I've stockpiled so many fixtures, ballasts, and lamps that I should be able to enjoy it for the rest of my life.

[@johnsmiht7776]

😃 Thanks, Clive, for thinking us Yanks by give us the pronunciation of chassis! You're a jewel!😊

[@DrHarryT]

I had an LED flash thought it was the power supply, replaced it and it still flashed. The LED was the problem, I believe the little gold wire was broken acting like a bimetal heat bending just like in the starter device here.

[@KallePihlajasaari]

Usually the epoxy cap expands and lifts the wire, cools down and makes contact again. All too common and could be minimised by having low profile wire bonds and a gel coat over the wires that will lot pull on the wires. Manufactures don't care because the consumer will buy another one when it fails. All the electronics in the base get chucked out. A thin tungsten filament is still one of the simpler electrical components out there.

[@jagmarc]

One the crazyest 'let's kill off fluorescents' was banning replacement 8(?) foot tube "because the wattage isn't A rating enough" The whole point of them is need less number to safely evenly light a factory overall higher efficiency. This whole "Energy Rating" thing is complete BS when there's an "AA-rated" plug in electric room heater

[@caroline1724]

Just found a few of these and ballasts in a box last week, including an USSR ballast made in the 60s or 70s from the look of it, still works as well as all the tubes. Practically collectors items where I live because you can't purchase them anymore since 2018 or so. Stores have this obsession with selling only new stuff and leave people no other choice than trash the fittings when the bulbs or lamps break because you can't even get a LED replacement for this particular shape of tube. Nonsense. And the straight LED tubes... 1 year of use and they start flickering. Meanwhile my T12s still going strong after 20+ years, one has blackened ends but still works fine.

[@guyteigh3375]

Yay, thank you. I learned something today. I noticed in the past, when a tube was on its last legs, it would sometimes strike - then go out - and repeat. I found that removing the starter once it had "struck" would keep the tube lit until it was turned off - then you just had to briefly refit the starter net time. Useful (very) if you needed to work and had no new tube on hand. I had not worked out what was wrong - (realised it was not a dead starter) - and now understand that the failing coating on the electrodes were allowing the tube voltage to rise to the point where the starter wanted to "do its thing" again. Thank you! Another little puzzle solved :) x

[@bigclivedotcom]

Also check you have the correct starter. There are a few different ratings going by tube diameter and length.

[@ghostkhadaji]

I just swapped out some dead T8/T12 fluorescent tubes in my utility room with direct replacement LED tubes. I had to change one of the ballasts, too, and was planning on popping the old one open to take a look inside.

[@ghostkhadaji]

At the end of your video, I can't help but reminisce about the times I shocked myself as a kid swapping out fluorescent tubes in the basement of my parents' house. It definitely is cool thinking about the operation of these lamps. And also.. holy cow, were the LED replacements so much easier to handle. Bittersweet, I guess.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@ghostkhadaji American fittings were worse for that than British, especially American 8 ft fittings, they effectively just used pure volts, those things were vicious. UK ones tended to use more conventional resonant circuits to strike the 8 footers

[@gorak9000]

Why would you have to change a ballast to put LEDs in - usually you REMOVE the ballasts to put LEDs in

[@ghostkhadaji]

@@gorak9000 Search for "Philips UniversalFit LED tubes". If I could have just bypassed the bad ballast instead of replacing it with one compatible with those light tubes, then I guess I missed an opportunity.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@gorak9000 remove both prevent light pollution

[@FerralVideo]

I've always been passionate about illumination technologies, and it's a tragedy that the fluorescent is going forcibly south. I've come to appreciate them, and they aren't exactly inefficient. I've got a trove of F15T8 bulbs, several fittings including a two-bulb drafting arm lamp, an under-cabinet/tabletop or three, a highly beloved two-bulb desk lamp, and at least a couple ballasts. Not long ago I inherited a F56T5HO high-bay 6-bulb monster from work. 350W! A small table lamp sits beside me right now loaded with an old CFL that shouldn't work anymore but does. Also have F40T12s for the kitchen and laundry room - each has only used up one set of bulbs each, although I didn't catch the laundry room one quickly enough and the ballast immolated. A small part of me wants to stock up on them now, but that would be sliiiightly hazardous to my bank account.

[@Farm_fab]

Clive, I bought fluorescent tubes for some work lights at work, and I actually had to remove the starter from the tube as our lights were electronic ballast, and refused to light. I got a bunch of tubes at a local charity store, and the price was good for the new tubes. I was act surprised that since the insides were different that they actually plugged in to the socket.

[@bigjd2k]

The capacitor shorts out at high frequency. The original lamps supplied with such fittings didn’t have capacitor or starter, they’re just cold started by the ballast.

[@simonparkinson1053]

There are two versions of these lamps - the 2-pin with integral starter for magnetic ballast only, and the 4-pin which can be used with an external starter on a magnetic ballast, or with an electronic ballast.

[@alexmarshall4331]

That was one of your best postings Clive... Thanks mate 👉💎👈❗

[@Damien.D]

Any electrical enthusiast : "look, an old, nice technology that last decades and doesn't need that much power" EU : "Looks like something we should ban and replace with a thing made in china that is sold 10x more and last 10x less. To save the climate". That is how you understand that EU is completely ridden with lobbyists of foreign countries.... Anyway, fun fact, i have crappy chinese electronic starters for 120cm tubes that fails to strike tubes, but tapping the thing make it start XD I'm glad they've kept this feature we all love :P (anyway these crap overdrives tubes and burn them in 2-3 years instead of 10+ years on an oldschool ballast...). Also having many vintage fluorescent tubes powered at once makes a nice industrial lightshow I just can't stop enjoying.

[@keithjurena9319]

I just did a diagnosis of an identical lamp. For an insect trap, it did the constant flashing. Capacitor measured at 3.5 nano Farad and the flasher was also sooted. Main tube ends were sooted too.

[@BTW...]

Replace the lamp with the correct type.

[@fuzzywuggzy506]

I wished things would become obsolete due to natural progression, as in an arguably better option comes along so everyone willingly moves on, not because a bunch of megalomaniacs decided that no one should have it. Oh well, the state -never- always knows best.

[@SB-nt9fp]

Great explanation Clive. I'm not entirely sad to see them go. Although I'll miss smashing the big tubes. ;-)

[@idi0tdetectioninprogress]

The 8 foot tube will always be king 👑

[@randomelectronicsanddispla1765]

I like fluorescent lights. They are still fairly efficient, especially compared to the cheaper LED lights that most hardware store sell (we all know that most people won't buy the $30 light bulbs) They are very rugged, handle heat much better, are easy to drive,... For some reason LEDs drivers seem to fail much more often than electronic "ballasts." And iron core ballast pretty much never fail at all. Starters failing somewhat often are the only slightly annoying thing in my opinion. And even then, that's what, once every couple of years? Plus, you can't drive a LED light with a vibrating relay and a 12V battery, or a Tesla coil

[@wearsjorge55]

Biggest issue i have with LED's as an electrician whos work is 90% service and maintenance is that manufacturers are designing and building their own proprietary lamps/fittings that cant be repaired or retrofitted so you either hope the manufacturer will supply you a spare driver or lamp but if they dont youre stuffed and need to buy a whole new fitting. While i truly hated my time with fluorescents at least the manufacturers didnt fuck us all over royally for a quick buck

[@1kreature]

The inductor in series is what kicks the high voltage through the tube when the bimetal disconnects as inductors resist changes in current flow.

[@icarossavvides2641]

Yes, that's correct, when the starter opens, the magnetic field suddenly collapses and generates a KV level voltage spike that strikes an arc in the tube. The reason they may flash a couple of times before striking is that the circuit needs to be broken near the voltage peak otherwise the spike not enough to strike the arc.There are electronic starters that open when the input voltage is at it's peak and so the tubes do not flash.

[@lapub.]

Capacitor in series are also used for phase shift in order to lower the flicker effect. In a pair one have a capacitor and the other not. the capacitor is sized to compensate both ballast with one cap.

[@pauljb9477]

It's the usual thing (imo), where false/forced economy is thrust onto people, mostly under the guise of global warming or saving the environment over the last few decades especially. I love LEDs but the way they are made is reducing their value for being environmentally beneficial, with poor thermal design , high current , non modular , etc. As with other things (like mobile phones ) which could be made to be easily fixable or simply to replace globes /batteries , where are these govts/bureaucrats/enviro people for simple things like that ? People taking 20+ flights per year telling others they ("we") need to do better for emissions, spend more money on "green" products , and pay more taxes.... I'd love to see some forensic audits on people who make these decisions , and the others who just tell everyone what they should be doing to help.

[@sauerdrops484]

Thank you for explaining. I stilll use my over 30 year old desk lamp with one of these tubes where ballast is in the powerplug that looks like a wallwart. I always wondered how it is working. I had to change the tube once and have a couple used ones for the next 30 years.

[@davidg4288]

Interesting video. I'm working on my Dad's old house and the basement is lit mostly by dual tube 4 foot fluorescent lights. Some of them are flickery and many are dim. They are T12 which are an inch and a half diameter driven with magnetic ballast. They've been "illegal" in the US for quite some time but there are lots of loopholes so new tubes can still be purchased. I tried using a "plug and play" LED linear tube and they work fine with a decent ballast but Dad was frugal and bought "shop lights" which don't even light the T12's with a full 40 watts. The "bench light" ballasts overheat and shut down with the LED tubes. So I tried "ballast bypass" linear LED tubes which just require mains voltage to the end connectors. These also worked but are a more trouble, basically just replace the ballast with an in line fuse. The fuse is in case someone pops in an old fashioned tube and manages to get the arc to strike. I tried 4 of these and had one early failure so far which isn't encouraging. Nice bright light though. The obvious correct solution is to buy real LED troffers but I am frugal like Dad and the cheap ones are not designed to be repaired, so that wouldn't be much of an improvement either. At least they'd come with a UL or CSA approval.

[@huonlemercier264]

Hi Clive, Love all your videos so well explained. I'm an Australian Electrical Contractor and have been working as an electrician for over 45 years. In Australia we call the inductor a "Ballast". Quite often we use a single ballast with twin fluorescent tubes and use two 120 volt starters called "S2" instead of the "P10" 240 volt starter used in a normal single tube arrangement. The twin tube and starter with a common ballast arrangement is mostly used for 18/20 watt lamps and the dedicated ballast mostly used for 36/40 watt lamps. Over the last fifteen to twenty years electronic ballasts have become far more common and are a little more energy efficient with less heat losses, cause less power factor losses and prevent the stroboscopic effect that the wire wound ballasted fluorescent lamps caused with synchronous machines. Over the last 10 years I have witnessed a massive decline in the quality of new fluorescent control devices both the wire wound iron core and electronic type. Twenty years ago it was quite common to find existing fluorescent lamp installations that had been operating since the 1970's on a daily basis functioning quite adequately for over twenty five years some with the original lamp, today I'm lucky to find a modern fluorescent fitting either electronic or iron core used on a daily basis lasting more than five years. I remember once I could specify a extra long life fluorescent lamp with a rated life of 80,000 hours, today we are lucky to get 4000 hours out of a fluorescent lamp. The same for L.E.D's which seem to have a much shorter life's than when originally they introduced 20 years ago, just refer to the Osram technical catalogs to see the difference, the life expectancies have been very much reduced, is this another instance of planed obsolescence.

[@bigclivedotcom]

I think it's just down to the culture of lowest bidder wins. The non technically inclined buy the cheapest item.

[@thefirsted]

I had always wondered why fluorescent lights flickered. Thanks for the video! I won't miss CFL's personally though I didn't mind the larger fluorescent lights.

[@n-steam]

I have a 20 year old lamp with one of these. The base broken and it gets held up by a vice, the reflective backing has had to be reglued back, the plastic casing looks like it's been in direct sunlight the entire time. But the bulb is still the original, and still working.

[@DanafoxyVixen]

the Thorn 2D lamp was my favorite. Ive stocked up on bulbs for those as they are already hard to find here in New Zealand. also got a few of these PL lamps for my reading lamp too

[@brooksrownd2275]

I enjoyed this nice little guide to the secret inner workings of little flourescent tubes.

[@carlyonbay45]

That compact fluorescent fitting is very similar to type I had in a reef marine aquarium. They came in reef white and actinic blue and were excellent for coral growth . The replacement bulbs became impossible to buy - virtually extinct now and I was forced to switch to LED . The new aquarium led are okay but nowhere near the same intensity and some corals don’t like them at all . ….

[@lampmunchertv3861]

Try using a combination of those LEDs and those BL fluorescent bulbs that you find in bug zappers. Those have similar spectrums to actinic tubes

[@SeanBZA]

Funny thing is the other month i replaced a CFL lamp that was not very bright, very yellow glow. Turns out it had failed, and the CFL tube itself was full of water, due to a leaking roof that allowed the lamp to get wet, and cracked a seal with it being hot, allowing water to fill the tubes. However the filaments were still intact, and thus the glow, as it was always in start up mode, with the water keeping the filament from oxidising as it was slowly being boiled off as steam, and then sucking in more when it cooled. Very strange to see a CFL lamp with all 3 U tubes sloshing water in them.

[@mercuryvapoury]

I've got a desk lamp on next to me right now that uses 11-watt PL-S lamps. It's great. It's been on this desk for about 20 years, and I think I've only ever had to replace the tube two or three times Luckily, I bought a number of these tubes when Maplin closed nearby, so I have a stock for another number of years, but it'll be a sad, sad day when I have to confine it to the "great recycling centre in the sky" (also known as the neighbour's wheelie bin)

[@NaoPb]

Give it some time and there will be Chinese made replacement bulbs. Might give the desk lamp another lease on life.

[@JoranGroothengel]

​@@NaoPb Pretty sure there already are drop-in PL-S LED tubes. I have a nice retro desk lamp I salvaged from the e-waste (A Lucifer desk light) that I put an LED tube in (just one out of two, one LED tube was plenty bright), works great. I personally find it an improvement, I often get annoyed by 'flashing' light out of the corners of my eyes from fluorescent tube lights. Perhaps this is partially caused by old or cheap TL material, since I mostly recall being annoyed by this whenever my dad put up secondhand TL lighting in his garage. No such irritation from LED tubes. The option of warmer color temperatures is also nice.

[@gorak9000]

I have a similar desk lamp. I've had it 40 years, but it's more than 40 years old. I've only changed the tube in it once. Interesting fact, gas pumps also use the PL-S lamps - the ones that have the 7-segment style LCD digit displays. If they're newer style LCD screens, then they're probably CCFL or LED backlight, but the ones that just have 7-segment digit displays use multiple PL-S lamps as the backlight

[@UdderlyEvelyn]

I had the issue requiring flicking it to get the starter to separate on a ceiling light which I learned to tap on by experimentation, it was SO COOL to learn why that happened and why what I did worked.

[@chubbyadler3276]

I actually thought those things were retro for at least a decade. They certainly have a charm to them.

[@andydingley3746]

I've a 30 year old Ikea desklights with one of these in. Still one of my favourite lights. It's a big long lamp, so it doesn't give awkward shadows. It just works better than any LED lights I have.

[@jannepeltonen7493]

Thanks for the video. I've understood how the fluoro tubes work but never thought about how the traditional starter exactly worked. Turns out its much more interesting than I thought with the neon gas heating mechanism.

[@JeffreySJonas]

I have an emergency/exit sign fluorescent fixture that's very clever: a magnetic ballast like yours to 2 fluorescent lamps in parallel. It's fail-safe: when one bulb burns out, the other takes over. The way it works: when turned on, both lamps flicker but one "wins" by igniting and effectively shorting out the other. Should that lamp fail open, the other takes over!

[@bigclivedotcom]

That technique was also used in long life discharge lamps. But with two parallel tubes in one lamp.

[@umbrellacorp.]

Thanks for sharing some light on how this stuff works. 😂👍 Cool stuff, Enlightening. 😎👍💯

[@buzzpile]

I'm watching at around 2:25, this looks like a xoiln flash tube, how does that work?

[@bigclivedotcom]

A xenon flash tube has single wire electrodes at each end and a conductive coating or wire wrapped around the outside. A high DC voltage is applied across the tube but it doesn't actually strike until a high voltage spike is applied to the outer electrode to initiate gas ionisation along its length. Then it triggers and dumps the current in a flash.

[@onlyeyeno]

Thanks for another enjoyable video :) Am I the only one who finds "appliances/circuits" of this ilk elegant in their simplicity ?? Best regards

[@JC-jv5xw]

Another elegant example is the old GPO telephones where several components had a dual function.

[@rose-ey6ct]

Over 50 years ago i was working in a company which had 5 foot ancient fluorescents in it. The Starters were green lamps which glowed whilst the lamp was striking. one of the fittings was sitting with the tube just glowing at the ends and never lit. i said "i can fix that". There was a tiny capacitor across the starter hanging over the side of the fitting. I reached up with a pair of insulated snips and cut one of the capacitor connections. Lamp lit instantly. They never figured out what I did or how i fixed it by cutting a wire!

[@bigjd2k]

Quite a few of us collect fluorescent tubes and fittings! I don’t like the light from LED, so the whole house is T12 fluorescent and T10 circline. The extra power consumption doesn’t matter as it’s dwarfed by the 12 solar panels producing up to 4.3kW of free leccy and 10kWh battery storage.

[@VEC7ORlt]

You're a weirdo, especially with them T12 bulbs, best quality bulbs were T5 and I'd argue that high CRI modern LEDs are way better.

[@KallePihlajasaari]

In most high latitudes we need more lighting in winter when the days are shorter. Any power wasted in the lights is reduced from out heating requirements by the same amount. Until a better heating system is used like a heat-pump there is no saving from domestic lighting heat generation avoidance. In hot climates with massive malls and offices that need to use air-conditioning to cool the dark spaces the equation does favour the most efficient lighting system. I heard that at my kids school in Finland the air-conditioning load decreases measurably at break time when all the kids are outside (or at home) and not dissipating their 100W each of heat into the classrooms.

[@TheTallGirl]

I thought it is a long dead technology with today's prices of LEDs. But I remember those. It looks like the bann is just for general purpose lighting fluorescent tubes. UV, special tubes, and discharge lamps will be still allowed. That seems reasonable. For lights, we have better options nowadays. But for things like water treatment, I don't see any readily available alternative.

[@sonicdash3818]

I have a couple of preheat fluorescent ballasts. None oil filled, but I do have tar filled. One of which is a GE cloth wire, I didn't realize the ballast had gone bad until it started to shit tar on my bed. Which thankfully was protected, but I immediately washed the protective sheets. Only one of the three old preheat ballasts I have still work and it's an advance. Only one that didn't overheat and shit itself or refuse to light outright

[@nathanlucas6465]

I work in toolstation, and we still get people coming in asking for CFLs, even though we have very few of them left in stock. They either don't like led light or don't like change 😂 We do sell "conversion tubes" for flourescent strip lights that come with a special starter that you have to use with them. I got curious and opened one. Turns out it's just a thick wire link between the 2 pins inside it. Sat on my workbench I've got a couple of the original Philips "jam jar" CFLs - the ones that take a good 15 minutes to reach full brightness. My Dad bought them when I was little, probably around 1980, from Granada (the TV rental place) when he was working for them. They still work fine 😊 weigh a ton though! I would be interested to dismantle one and see what's inside, but I'm loathed to destroy one that still works

[@thephilpott2194]

yeah, they're worth a few quid now, i wouldn't strip it down.

[@bigclivedotcom]

It's literally just the chunky ballast in the middle and a tube surrounding it. (I opened mine).

[@Pentium100MHz]

I just have a stockpile of incandescent lamps and have lowered my house voltage to 220V (standard is 230, but in practice it can go up as high as 245) to make them last longer. If I plan on using the lamp a lot, I might also put a resistor in series with it, both to drop the voltage even further and to limit the inrush current (which is what is most damaging to the bulbs). There used to be a small two-wire dimmer (just put it in series with the bulb) available that would gradually bring the brightness up, but it is not made anymore.

[@HeathenGeek]

I remember those, Philips SL18's and SL20's. Those were the days. Jumpers for goalposts 😁

[@wisher21uk]

Learned a few this today Clive thanks 😊

[@artillerest43rdva7]

it is sad the things that works for a long time, is discontinued while chinese leds that die fast are kept. my grandmother had a t12 circular lamp in her kitchen, I do not remember it ever being replaced. thank you for all of the electronic education.

[@andywindy]

Low-Pressure Mercury Vapour 'Gas' (LPMV) was used in the manufacture of Fluorescent Lamps when I did my Electrical Apprenticeship back in the early 70s. When smashing old ones for landfill, we got issued goggles, gloves and a cheap disposable dust mask! Oh, and we washed the Brushes used for Bitumen paint in Trike (1:1:1 Trichloroethylene) ! Don't forget, Health and Safety was optional until 1974.

[@merseyviking]

There's a landfill/recycling yard a couple of miles away across the valley from me, and they have yard lights that switch on when it gets dark. There is one light that is pointing directly at my house that does that slow blink of a bulb on its way out; 6 seconds on, 6 seconds off. It's the most annoying thing because once you notice it, you can't stop looking at it because it's the brightest light in its surroundings. If anyone reading this works at the landfill on Whinney Hill Road, please replace it. I'll even buy you a new one!

[@connclissmann6514]

Better still, move to low energy lighting. I'm sure your local councillor would love to take their idea on, and then put it in the newsletter as their idea.

[@gdwnet]

I remember one of these in my grandparents kitchen. The flickering with that "click" sound before the light came on.

[@MyProjectBoxChannel]

I have reused the old magnetic ballasts for current limiting, in various projects. As current limiting for a long series string, "high voltage" battery charging. I have also used them to reduce the speed of motors. So were will I get my high power inductor form now?, when all are gone for good.🤔😥

[@MaskinJunior]

When working at an amusement park they conducted an experiement on what light-bulbs would last the longest, since they had hundreds and the cost of replacing broken bulbs many times over outhweight the cost of the bulb itself. The experiment resulted in an off-brand LED bulb as the winner. It lasted longer than the florecant. More interesting was that it was an of-brand and not the Osram that lasted the longest. (I cnat remember the name of the brand, but probably that lightbulb is everywhere in the park now 12 years later)

[@patrickbuick5459]

The Phillips LED ones I have seem to be dying in a relatively short time. I should try conberting them all to LV.

[@r1273m]

The light in my office (Phillips) uses two of these tubes. They last for years but I have a few spares ready for the day when they are unavailable, they give a very pleasant light for working. In the loft I have had to replace a 4 ft fluorescent tube with LED. Once the LED's fail no spares are available, just bin the entire unit and buy new. I don't like the colour of the LED light either, very cold, harsh and clinical.

[@fredflintstone1]

I have a 6volt Flourescent lamp runs off 4 AA batteries, with a tube HFF4T5/D that is interesting 🙂

[@olmostgudinaf8100]

They have a voltage multiplying driving circuit.

[@Starphot]

The old fluorescents had the old style ballast in the fixtures or above the ceiling. We still have a few of these 1950's fixtures in the library of the university observatory we meet in. One night it smelled like burning tar. I traced it down to one set not turning on, hot enough on top to burn fingers. The ballast was potted in tar as these were originally. The university's physical plant people had to check and replace the old ballasts with the modern ones as these are a fire hazard.

[@sarkybugger5009]

Bring back whale oil lights! Such a lovely warm white light, and no mercury involved in their manufacture.

[@McTroyd]

I mean, the pulsing flash of an LED supply in "hiccup" mode can be quite eye-catching. Just don't use it at the Epileptic's Conference.

[@LarixusSnydes]

To be fair, the same goes for a failing fluorescent tube starter. That pulsing trying-to-start can also send light-sensitive epileptics over the edge. I've had epilepsy myself, but thankfully I was not light sensitive during that period. A friend of mine was and she got around 6 episodes a day before a very bright out-of-the-box-thinking neurologist investigated deeper and found out that it was actually her optical nerves that were damaged and co-designed special glasses to cope with that. After donning those, she only has about 1 serious episode each month.

[@McTroyd]

@@LarixusSnydes Glad she was able to get help for that. I don't (think I) know any light-sensitive epileptics, but from working at a pain management clinic, I have an idea how debilitating that nerve damage must be, especially these days. Everything has to be big, bright, bold, and flashy to get any attention, or so it seems.

[@LarixusSnydes]

@@McTroydThank you for your kind words😀. When it comes to flashy, garish and bold, the 90's must have been a true hell for her. In her case I think it was more a case of 1000 possible causes and someone who had an exceptionally keen eye for the EEG patterns to derive a higher than normal possibility of a deviation in the optic nerves.

[@cdl0]

The ancient florescent tube in my kitchen has an electronic starter that I installed about thirty years ago with a new tube. After switching on the lamp there is a period of about one second when nothing appears to happen, then the lamp starts abruptly with no flashing on and off. The tube itself has also not blackened at the ends like most old tubes do, and it still all works as when new. The starter itself was several times the price of a traditional starter, and seemed very expensive at the time, costing more than the tube, but I have never had to replace the tube. I wonder how this works.

[@bigclivedotcom]

I made a video about that. It's a timed start. It preheats the cathodes for a controlled time. Then it opens circuit so the lamp can strike first time.

[@Alabaster335]

I'm gonna quote PhotonicInduction here; "fluorescent lighting can last twenty years, these (LED) aren't gonna last two!". He's right, we have LED high bay lights and LED "fluorescent" lights already failing after two years in our new buildings. The fluorescent lights and metal halides in the old buildings are still going strong after 20 years (yes of course they've had a couple of tube changes over those years)

[@МихаилЦымбал-д9м]

...Also there is electrodeless(induction) lamps which are.....ageless

[@randacnam7321]

@@МихаилЦымбал-д9м Same with cold cathode fluorescent. I have lamps in service with well over 80,000 burn hours and still going strong.

[@nooboard]

If youn buy cheap you buy twice. Fluorescent lights also broke. I exchanged a lot. Sometimes the starter sometimes the tube itself. The worst where the smaller. They suck and the light itself is bad too. It is okayish in an environment you don't need to stay for long but at offices for example they are bad for the eyes. They where never good. And the better ones also where way more expensive than the cheap hardware store crap. And btw if they last that long why you all cry then? Oh they break sometimes too... funny, that can't be true if they lasting that long like everyone claims here.

[@edwardecl]

Depends on the led light fittings you buy, LED lights that have the power circuitry in them don't last very long but if you can get ones where the low voltage is supplied by an external power supply they last as long as the LEDs themselves last which is quite a long time. Saying that, the last lot of LEDs I bought from China (yes i know they are risky), the ones that go int the GU10 fittings I fully expected to last 6 months like they usually do, but they have lasted 4 years and are still going (I used them every day). Surprising. You just have to make sure you screw them in with the power turned off because the entire outside is metal, would not recommend anyone else use 'em if they are not careful. The halogens that used to go in the same light fitting used to last 4-6 months so the LEDs are actually an upgrade from those, florescents are pretty robust, but the light they give out is utter crap so swings and roundabouts, I still have a CFL in one of my upstairs lights that has been there for 15 years.

[@idi0tdetectioninprogress]

​@@nooboard Your ranting on two different subjects. Back in the day, if we bought Crompton or Thorn lighting, there was near enough zero problems, like ever. It was only cheaper Chinese junk which entered the market that was more unreliable. However compare that to any brand of LED lamps or panels, and there's always faulty units. Ive yet to see any project, large or small, where every light as worked.

[@c4pt1n54no]

The problem I see with LED fixtures stems from the lack of standardization and modularity. A new power supply would be easy to source if it were standard, and had a little hatch and port to plug in like a fluorescent starter. In some cases that's not feasible however I feel a lot of LED products are built to be bought again

[@crusinscamp]

I'm getting old. We once designed these lamps into one of the products we make as a convenience lamp. I thought it was pretty advanced at the time. Since then, others doing engineering maintenance on the product have changed them to LED lamps (in the same package). I didn't realize the fluorescent ones were on the verge of obsolescence. Anyway, we used a ballast as shown. They worked well on 120 VAC and 230 VAC, but not so well on 100 VAC (Japan). At 100 VAC with a ballast, they'd flicker and fuss unacceptably. Crazy solution; we wired a small step-down transformer (about 20 VAC output) in series with the lamp and ballast. This boosted the line voltage the lamp "saw" to 120 VAC and the lamps worked fine.

[@bigclivedotcom]

I've used the same technique to drop the voltage to a European 220V ballast because it wasn't handling 240V well.

[@Murgoh]

There's a light fixture with a pair of those in the ceiling of my old room in my childhood home. I installed it when I was about 16 years old and to my knowledge the tubes have never been replaced since then. I'll be 52 next month.

[@forgingluck]

I apologize in advance for the stupid question lol, but what's next after led's do we reckon? Diffuse / low power laser? Graphene?

[@bigclivedotcom]

I don't know what the next breakthrough is going to be. I expect the efficiency of LEDs to get better and better over time though.

[@andreasu.3546]

What comes after LEDs? Better LEDs.

[@PeopleAlreadyDidThis]

I loved fluorescents before they became poor quality junk. The tubes we could buy in recent years had a lifespan of months, not years, and the cost went way up. Top brand electronic ballasts began failing almost as often. Had to think we were being forced into LEDs, which failed just as often and were also overpriced. Tiring of the constant cost and replacement headaches, I swapped for LEDs in most of my fixtures, despite the harsh light and poor CRI. We had to replace our refrigerator several years ago. It uses LEDs inside. All three LED units died within months. Replacements are $109 US apiece. Therefore, it’s dark in there. It’s so absurd to forbid an incandescent lamp that is lit three minutes daily and lasts 40 years. Likewise being expected to install LED in my three attic fixtures, which might burn 15 minutes annually.

[@toddjohnson5692]

This is why we all need the Dubai LED lights. I think you covered them in an episode.

[@ericlotze7724]

Designing Open Source LED Light Circuits+Enclosures for Bulbs seems like a way to do this to an extent. Would you all be down for making a group for that?

[@threeMetreJim]

Run the LEDs at a lower current and use more of them for the same brightness, along with adequate cooling and they last a good long time. I made a replacement for a 12v 40W filament light that uses 6 of the single 1 watt LEDs and a low frequency (no interference to vhf radio) current regulated boost converter made with a 34063. I ran the LEDs at 250mA instead of the 350mA maximum. it may be a tiny bit dimmer than the original, but doesn't waste a lot of power upwards. It's been used every day for nearly 5 years and still going. It provides light for the seating area in a caravan / trailer home. For mains lighting, you can get an over-rated bulb (100W equiv. when you only need 60W equiv.) and do Clive's resistor removing/altering trick to decrease the brightness to the original required rating. That should make it last much longer. The temperature rise should reduce too, as the over-rated bulb should be designed to get rid of more heat, and you are running at reduced current.

[@99Noggin]

Re the germicidal lamps there should be sufficient demand for a few factories to keep going. Special purpose lamps like these (should be?) will be excluded from the regulations. There doesn’t seem to be a solid state alternative. The machinery / processing isn’t uncommon, one big issue is sourcing the cerium free glass since ordinary tube glass becomes opaque to UVC very quickly. Steriliser lamps up to 17kW and more are used in power stations, sewage farms etc but they have quartz tubes.

[@gh8447]

Many years ago, many many years ago, I was sitting one of my Trade Certificate exams and a there was one question worth 10 marks so it was a significant portion of the total exam. There were three options to choose from and you only had to answer one of them. I didn't know the answer to any of them, but one of them was to explain how a fluorescent light works. I knew how a fluorescent light was wired up, so I thought about it for a bit and worked through it using first principles. I got 10/10 for my answer! 😄

[@dragonrider4253]

It's sad though. the 'simple' fluorescent lamps were super reliable. I have a small under cabinet light that uses this EXACT layout (except it's a 120 volt version) and it's about 12 years old and still working. Kind of hard to beat a component count of three. I don't use it too often, but other fixtures I've seen in buildings that have been abandoned for 80 years (and somehow still have power) have fluorescent lights that are still working, though obviously not all of them. I'd like to see an LED fixture last 120 years. Also, it's argon. The neon starters you'd find are much more 'blinky.'

[@randacnam7321]

I have a shoplight in one of my sheds that is ~80 years old. Only things I've had to replace other than lamps and starters is the cord. Same with an identical fixture in my garage that my grandfather got as war surplus when he built said garage in the 1950s.

[@BTW...]

@@randacnam7321 Sounds like a fire risk.

[@BTW...]

See, what you say tells me you have no idea about the subject, and have never worked in the industry to know. Fluro lighting in a commercial / industrial / public installation is a maintenance nightmare, and always has been due to the COMPLEXITY.. having multiple failure modes i.e. A lot MORE than 3 components you see. Do you need me to name the 8-9 components in your fave old antiquated tube fittings?

[@randacnam7321]

@@BTW... It isn't.

[@Wolf_K]

Except for specific applications, I really don’t like LEDs much and I prefer the old incandescent bulbs. LEDs are great for small electronics indicator lights, slider potentiometer lights, etc, extremely powerful outdoors flashlights/torches etc but they really suck for indoor lighting. The world has gone LED mad. 😂

[@randacnam7321]

What I call the _fallacy of universal supplantation._ Something new crops up and must therefore replace everything else that came before, with damnatio memoriae upon all that was cuz we live in a perpetual year zero.

[@Wolf_K]

@@randacnam7321 pretty much.

[@spyro1234512]

A while back, I bought a few old fruit machines, One of them "Crazy Fruits Casino: GOLD" (2003) had one of these inside to light up the games' logo on the front door. I think the company that deigned the cabinet to didn't expect anyone to change the bulb because the amount of work needed/Things you need to take off the machine to get to the thing is a pain in the arse. It also destroyed most of the decal detail work on the glass because of the 20+ years of heat from the light. (Not sure if the bulb was changed since 2003, But most machines like this are powered on for at least 14 hours a day, 7 days a week.) To the point: I only managed to swap mine out a few days ago after months of putting the job off, and then you upload this, What a funny coincidence LOL.

[@hadibq]

Nice refresher on neon tubes ... I always found them ingenuous setup over their incondescent pairs

[@Mad4400]

I salvaged a couple of these fittings from an old office reno late last year. Each workstation had one fitted to provide a desk light in a space with no natural light and fairly high ceilings. I'll probably use them in the shed as dedicated lighting at the drill press or bench grinder. I was mindful enough to grab all the working globes in that office also, so I shouldn't need to chase up any replacement tubes ever.

[@sambaker3233]

Ive just been repairing some of these today! 26 watt 90s era wall scones in an office building. Lucky there was a box of lamps in a store room. One ballast / choke had a meltdown and caused a fire evacuation. In New Zealand battasts are getting hard to find.

[@alsanova]

...and this is why LED panels should be banned. I've seen load of them gone shit within a year in many shops. Many should've stick to fluorescent which last many years or keep old fixture and have it retro fitted to LED tubes that user can change it without the need of hiring an electrician to change every time LED panel drop dead or pulsing like mad. What a waste!! 🙄

[@Daleeather1975]

Love the content big Clive. The led Fluor light use a adapted bridged starter In place of the fluorescent starter.

[@JC-jv5xw]

I don't think Clive mentioned this - the basic circuit he showed is the same for all "switch start" fluorescent fittings with tubes from 1ft to 8ft on 230-240V. On the linear fittings the starter is a small plug in module with a bayonet fitting. Later fittings have an electronic "ballast", a power supply that drives the tube with a high frequency AC at 30-40kHz and providing a small heater current for starting .