Retro Reviews (Ep. 1) | Pandemic, For Sale, & The Voyages of Marco Polo

[@AllYouCanBoard]

How would you have graded these three games? Do you agree or disagree with us? Do you have a suggestion for what we could call this new series instead of RETRO REVIEWS? Let us know and maybe we'll select your idea and give you credit in the next episode!

[@DigitalPaintCan]

It's 11 am, at SAGE...I'm commenting on your channel while you're talking about comments (lol). As it may have looked like I'm on my phone not listening. Not true, a great time to tell you: Great channel and a very educational SAGE presentation. Keep up the good work...

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Thank you so much! We really appreciate the kind words and you being in attendance for the presentation, we had a great time.

[@shockwavemasta]

I think what would help the reviews is to give an initial rating when you first played it and then what you would rate it today.

[@Poiuytrew.Q]

I like that idea!

[@michaelhall7080]

Second this idea. It gives a good idea for how well the game holds up over time.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Not a bad idea but that's not always easy for some of these because some of them we tried many years ago and might not remember our first impressions! We'll try to remember to talk about that in future videos though.

[@MrJmarzetti]

Great topic for your channel. I love coming across these older gems that aren't talked about anymore and finding out what made them good games. Voyages of Marco Polo is a great Dice placement game! I've never played Pandemic.... mostly because I am not looking for cooperative games. But, I would like to try one of the games that use the Pandemic system one of these days. I have High Society, which seems like a very similar game to For Sale, which is also a good light/filler style game. For a series title, how about "Games of Distinguish."? 😀

[@brianthomson3095]

Agree on "Pandemic" and "For Sale". Have not played "Voyages of Marco Polo". I really like this idea of discussing and rating older games. Being in the hobby for only 3 years, most games are new to me. It's also nice that you compare them to newer games. Thanks.

[@leonardopandolfo3895]

I love the concept of the video! I really like that you always come with different series of videos! Greetings from Prague

[@tonycork2pa469]

I like this new format = adds variety to your content. "Retro Reviews" seems appropriate - as an alternative, I came up with "Dusty Classics" :) Suggested games for future discussion: Ra Medici High Society Catan Bohnanza Agricola Web of Power / China / Iwari Don / Serengeti / Templari Coloretto Acquire Bazaar Can't Stop The Great Dalmuti

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Thanks, Tony! We haven't played some of those but they're all great suggestions and we'll likely cover at least some of them in the coming months.

[@darth-ludic-rous]

"... as long as you're OK not getting paid for it" 😂😂😂 Great start to the new series, guys. Looking forward to more.

[@lucduchien]

Marco Polo is an example of a game that has a steep learning curve. The first play or two, I remember feeling stuck and frustrated. The third time, I was able to not go broke. By the 5th time, I had me money and recourses in control, and I was able to plot out my journey pretty far ahead of time. The 5 rounds feels not nearly enough when you first play, but if feels so good to understand the game enough to be pretty confident that you will accomplish your goals. The flip side is, if you are playing against someone who doesn't know what they are doing, you have the double advantage of knowing how to use what you get AND gobbling up the goodies that your opponent doesn't realize he needs. Then you can get these really high scores. I love it.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Definitely! I remember scoring like 40-some points my first game, and I think the winner had 70+. But having my score almost doubled was one of the reasons I wanted to play again so much, to see how and where I could improve. Such a good game! - Carlo

[@lorelielomaloma6569]

Voyages of Marco Polo is among my most favorite games! Also Grand Austria Hotel!

[@stevekingswell9143]

This is a great topic, looking forward to more

[@travisadork]

Great video! Love your takes on older games. I think it's really helpful for anyone wanting to get into the hobby, who might've heard of older games, but not sure about what their feelings might be on adding it to their collection. Retro Reviews works, but I'll list a couple ideas to see what you or everyone else thinks. First or second one might be my favorite. Ageless Wonders - you're wondering if an older game is still classic or not, so it could be Ageless Wondering, but not sure that rolls of the tongue as nicely as Ageless Wonders. Retro Grade - this plays off your title where you're giving an official grade; showing their age, aged well, or classic Not So Classic - almost like a "Not so fast," but probably a bit of a stretch to alter a common phrase this way Ageless or Fleeting Grading Classics Wondering Through the Classics I'll try to think of more and share them. Again, love the video; great idea!

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Thanks for the kind words and the suggestions!

[@lizmari7042]

Excellent video! I'm looking forward to more Retro Reviews (great name btw, I don't think you should change it)! It's a refreshing and very welcome change from the abundance of KZbin videos about new games (those are good too, but a bit of balance is great).

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Thanks, Liz! We agree, we still want to have a mix of older and newer.

[@blackjack2150]

I love Marco Polo. Definitely a classic for me.

[@looktothefuture84]

Loved this! Relatively new to board gaming and never sure if I should visit the old 'classics' or not or just enjoy the latest designs that likely evolved from many of them.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Very few of my favourite games were released in the past few years. There are tons of amazing games from decades ago that still haven't been surpassed, despite the art and production improving significantly across the board. Thanks for watching! - Carlo

[@jrobinson5053]

A couple years ago i was deciding between Marco Polo, Lorenzo, and Grand Austria Hotel. I went with Grand Austria, and have still never played the other two for a comparison. I really like Rajas of the Ganges though for a dice game. Troyes is also a good dice game.

[@shortydancer]

Definitely try Lorenzo if you like tight euros. Out of those three, i think its my favorite.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

We really need to try Lorenzo and GAH asap.

[@stivomali3022]

I would love to see the deeper breakdown of Marco Polo 1 vs 2. Not sure if I want to pick one of those up. And "retro reviews" is great! Those 2 words told me exactly what was going to be going on in that clip.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Awesome, thanks! Maybe we'll compare the two games one day but we would need to play Marco Polo 2 a few more times. As of now though, we both prefer the original by a lot.

[@shantelalbert7151]

Voyages of marco polo vs Marco polo II is like agricola vs. Caverna for me. The second surpasses the OG by far (sorry Carlo). I like the retro name and video, anything ya'll post is fantastic 💕

[@AllYouCanBoard]

No need to apologize for your opinion! If you like Marco Polo II more than the first one though, it makes sense you'd like Caverna over Agricola. The original ones were tight and punishing, and the updated versions loosen things up and give everyone more options. I really like the tension in games like Agricola and Marco Polo but I 100% get that it's a matter of personal preference. And thanks for all the kind words! - Carlo

[@RustyBlob]

This was a great show. It will be good to see some more like this.

[@morganwinchester]

I really like the concept of this video, would love to see more. I've often wanted to see some older games reviewed or showcased but really only see those types of games pop up in some top 50 lists and that's it. I don't think the name Retro Reviews is bad but Tabletop Throwbacks could be another candidate if you're not happy with your current name. Great video as always, cheers!

[@edwardhenry]

love this name idea!

[@shortydancer]

Yeha this name is better

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Thanks, Morgan! Great name suggestion, we'll add it to the mix. Glad you enjoyed the video! We plan to do a lot more of these.

[@johnmills8119]

Hi guys great video as always, I like the idea of this series a lot as it shines a light on games that got most of us back, or into the hobby, I would have to disagree with you on pandemic I would say it's a classic, it's still in my start set that I take to people who haven't or dont play board games along with ticket to ride dixit carcassonne and catan It as done so much for our hobby the same as the others I have mentioned, I know other games have improved on it but the DNA of it is in most cooperative game today and as I say it's a starter game for a me to teach people to get them into this amazing hobby. I agree with you on the other two games. Keep up the good work guys.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Thanks, John! Sounds like we pretty much agree. I would never hesitate to teach someone the original Pandemic if they were new to games and curious about it, but beyond that I would never really suggest it anymore, mostly because Pandemic Iberia exists. So for me, it's sort of a victim of comparison, I guess you could say. - Carlo

[@FragRevel]

Excellent new series!

[@jonio38]

I agree with all your grades. I really like Marco Polo!

[@youreatowel1103]

My game group is obsessed with Pandemic with On the Brink expansion. Even when I try to introduce "better" games they still wanna go back to Pandemic every now and then. OtB adds an extra player, better roles, harder challenges and my group loves it. I'm more with Dylan on this one, I'd rather play other games (specifically Spirit Island or even other versions) but it definitely aged well to my friends lol.

[@DeyaViews]

Half of my collection is games from 1991-2008, so I'm definitely excited for this series! "Retro Reviews" sounds perfect for games that are 10 years or older in board gaming. I've played Pandemic and enjoyed it, now moving on to the other versions of it (and hoping to play the Legacy Seasons next year). I've played Voyages of Marco Polo II, which I was a little disappointed with. There's plenty to make decisions about, but it seemed a bit too abstract in those decisions for me. I haven't played For Sale, but given that I loved other auction games, it sounds up my alley.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

I totally agree about Marco Polo II, it feels like a point salad where you have so many options and many of them are very similar, so you end up comparing these very small differences and it feels like a waste of time. - Carlo

[@candle8389]

Love the new series! Looking forward to more! I completely agree with For Sale and Pandemic. For Sale has always been a hit to all audiences. It has definitely stood the test of time. Looks like I need to try Voyages of Marco Polo! Dylan, have you checked out Rajas of the Ganges? It's another popular dice placement game.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Carlo here - neither of us have tried Rajas yet but we both want to.

[@devrogalyon3220]

Love this video concept guys! Please do more! There’s something having games like these on the shelf that, while design has evolved since they were first released, were trailblazers in doing what they do. It’s kinda like going back and playing Ocarina of Time and seeing how we made so many adventure games based on its blueprint.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Exactly! I love Ocarina of Time but let's be real... Link to the Past for SNES is still the best Zelda. - Carlo

[@LewisBSBBrian]

Great video concept. Oldies are really fun to talk about and dont get as much screen time on youtube. In terms of dice placement games, id throw up Troyes as a great entry for the « Classic » recognition. And as a benchmark for that genre to get a Classic grade (for me), id agree that Marco Polo would fall just short. Travelling and variable powers are def amazing, but the scoring and variable set up in Troyes, + the dice being available to everyone (for a price) makes for such a unique tense game with so much player interaction. Also, it hits more of that oldie criteria as a 2010 release. Keep it up guys. Would love to hear your thoughts on more of these

[@AllYouCanBoard]

We'll definitely keep doing these! Thanks for the kind words, Louis! Also, we haven't played Troyes yet but we really want to and will probably cover it down the road some day, probably not for a little while though.

[@elkauppila]

I think I need to get into some older games, I've only played Pandemic out of these three. I'm fully convinced I need to play The Voyages of Marco Polo. I think Retro Reviews is a pretty good name, though something with Classic in the name might suit your rating system. "Classic or Crusty?" "Just old or Pure Gold" I'm clearly not in marketing haha

[@heidicakessoapco5343]

I like your names. They get to the point. I especially like Just Old or Pure Gold...👍😊

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Thanks for the suggestions! And yeah you definitely need to try Voyages of Marco Polo if you haven't yet.

[@stevekingswell9143]

Love to hear your opinions on Tigris & Euphrates

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Definitely! We've only tried it digitally so far, but I'm trying to get a physical copy so we can play it a bunch. - Carlo

[@shortydancer]

More than 5 years old is retro?! But i do enjoy a look back at games that are not the new hotness.

[@tbahr123]

In board gaming, five years ago seems like a long time. The hobby has expanded a lot in the last decade

[@shortydancer]

@@tbahr123 only to people who follow the cult of the new. There are so many good games out there. Every game can be new to you if you haven’t heard of it. I just played a game that came out in 2012 and it was awesome. Better than some other games out today.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

We talked about this in the intro, I don't know what else to tell you... it's also a working title because we knew we would get comments like this. "Retro" is just short for "retrospective", which basically just means "looking back on".

[@drccddmm]

i like retro reviews. please do more

[@heidicakessoapco5343]

Hi there. Regarding names for this new series: Then and Now? Classic or Klunker? Sweet or Soured? Play or Played Out? Still Got Game? On Board or Just Bored? Thanks for your content. I enjoy your videos😊

[@Poiuytrew.Q]

There and Back Again

[@GeesebreathLive]

Alternate title suggestion: "The Old Hotness".

[@IndianaGeologist]

Id have to disagree with Dylan. I still love and enjoy playing Pandemic. I agree that the other Pandemic versions are more akin interesting, but this is the game I break out to introduce new people and play with my non gamer family

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Sounds like we all agree more than it might seem! I can't speak for Dylann, but if someone who never played games came over and saw Pandemic on my shelf, I would never discourage them from playing. But I can guarantee I'd be thinking "I wish we were playing Pandemic Iberia instead", and I can't imagine too many people would try Iberia and still prefer the original. So for me, I think it's showing its age mostly because of the comparable games that I think are better. It's still a good game and fun to play once in a while. - Carlo

[@CandiceLikes]

Quick Q guys- I have the new edition of Fjords on pre-order and looking forward to it But a few board game friends have told me they believe Blue Lagoon is better? What are your thoughts?

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Great question. We haven't played the new Fjords edition, and I think Dylann and I would probably have different answers here (I prefer Blue Lagoon, I think Dylann prefers Fjords). I think we would both agree though that Fjords is the better 2-player game. Blue Lagoon is amazing with 4 and really good with 3, but it's not great with 2. So I'd choose based on which player count(s) I think I'd play most. - Carlo

[@kalebdelk8235]

Series title idea: milk or wine?

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Haha, I love where your head's at with this, but I'm not sure it would be great for the KZbin title/algorithm...

[@VaultBoy13]

I disagree with you on Pandemic... OG Pandemic is one of the best versions of Pandemic simply due to the accessibility and amount of replaybiility. Other than the dice game, it's the only version of Pandemic with any legs. Horrified would be the modern game that would have a shot at unseating Pandemic, but it has a short lifespan. The game becomes same-y, and there's really no where to take the experience to. The game needs an injection of new ideas that elevate the original. The Pandemic spinoffs suffer from the same problem. There's a fun, new twist on Pandemic; but there's no investment in keeping the product fresh and interesting. Spirit Island or Marvel Champions are great examples of cooperative games that continue to build out the system, keep things fresh and interesting, and provide a lot of variety. But, they're not a threat to Pandemic. Pandemic is a gateway game that's accessible to nearly everyone. When evaluating Pandemic, it really needs to be seen as the whole package. What's On the Brink providing that keeps it fresh? What's In the Lab providing that keeps it fresh? Pandemic is kind of behemoth for being a game that can get it's foot in the door with casuals, and then broaden their experience and slowly turn up the weight with expansions. Pandemic is a gateway game that grows with the players. There's so few modern gateway games that do this. I just don't see it losing the Classic status for a long time.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Hey, that's totally fair! This is all opinion-based, and your thoughts are just as valid as ours. Although I will say, if you think OG Pandemic is the only version with any legs, I'm guessing you haven't tried Iberia because I haven't found anyone yet who prefers the original after having tried Iberia, it's just a more immersive, interesting game. Also - the Pandemic "system" is different from the base game itself. If I was just talking about Pandemic as a system of games, then yeah, it holds up extremely well and that's pretty much undeniable. But these days, would I ever pick base Pandemic over Iberia? Absolutely not, I'd pick at least 10 other co-op games ahead of it, including Iberia, so for me (and Dylann) it's showing its age. - Carlo

[@stevekingswell9143]

How do you rate Voyages of MP 1 vs Troyes?

[@perezoso9206]

Both are very thight games. I really like both but for me Troyes is outstanding.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Good question - we haven't played Troyes yet but we'd really like to try it soon. I think we'll probably like it quite a bit from what I know about it.

[@jeremiebeaudoin8024]

love it

[@Living4Games]

Now there's a Star Wars Clones Pandemic

[@AllYouCanBoard]

When will it stop?!

[@snowchamp]

Also, if you’re going into classics, thoughts on El Grande, Carcassonne or even Puerto Rico? Marco Polo I is hardly a classic, although the first 2 picks are great picks.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

I'm hesitant about Carcassonne because I've already spoken about it on the channel so many times but it definitely deserves a turn in the spotlight. I actually just got a used copy of El Grande: Big Box recently but I haven't played it yet! We'll probably cover it in 2023 once we've played it a bunch. Thanks for the suggestions! - Carlo

[@snowchamp]

I really don’t like Marco Polo I as travelling is way too costly. So contracts tend to easily win over travelling. Instead, Marco Polo II took care of this problem. Now both travelling and contracts holds up well and I can safely say I got rid of Marco Polo I happily. This is similar to me never wanting to play A Feast for Odin without Norwegians expansion. Reason being I can comfortably finish the main board and 1 island with loads to spare in Feast, so I aim to grab 2 islands in just base game. With Norwegians, because with more islands and the starting shed, now you won’t win just simply grabbing 2 islands.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

We haven't tried Norwegians expansion yet but we have really preferred the original Marco Polo so far rather than Marco Polo 2. That could maybe change after more plays but I don't think it will. I like the tension and scarcity of resources in the original. - Carlo

[@snowchamp]

@@AllYouCanBoard considering how you like Agricola over Caverna, I can understand your liking the tightness for games in general. That said, I’ve been told Marco Polo I problems I’ve mentioned is also well mitigated with its expansion and still the tightness stays good, so maybe you might wanna check that out.

[@DontGoJake]

Maybe Retro Rehash. I see Retro Review and I think you're reviewing old games. Not necessarily discussing something you've already reviewed.

[@LoneWolf-zc7nw]

I personally think Marco Polo 2 replace Marco Polo 1. Marco Polo 1 is very restrictive and linear game for example everyone competes in marketplace for camels because it is obvious choice. Also, Marco Polo 1 traveling is not as essential as Marco Polo 2 is. That makes game less thermic and more boring for me.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

That's fair. I've played Marco Polo 2 a couple times since we filmed this video, and so far I definitely prefer the original quite a bit. Marco Polo 2 feels too much like a point salad game where you can accomplish almost everything you want and it's just a matter of assessing the options and figuring out the most efficient ones to reach your goal, but it's tough for other players to stop you. Not a bad game but for me, Marco Polo 2 robbed the original of what I loved most about it - the tension and scarcity of resources. - Carlo

[@toddkauk6099]

All of my favourite games are more than 5 years old. Games don’t inherently get worse and new games are not better for some reason. Same with movies and music. The Beatles music is 60 years old and better than anything that came out in the last 5 years.

[@zachras9643]

Geriatric Game Checkups 😂

[@AllYouCanBoard]

Haha, might be a bit misleading for KZbin search results but otherwise it's quite good!

[@Poiuytrew.Q]

I can’t agree with you on Pandemic. It’s an elegant simulation of real world pandemics and epidemics. The math works. It’s like you’re arguing that the math shows it age. Math is sort of timeless. The Fall of Rome simulation also works along with some “magic” stuff that appeals to certain people. I like more real world simulation games and I would prefer more games in the Pandemic series like Iberia. It would be cool if by playing games people could discover real world solutions like how to manage ebola.

[@AllYouCanBoard]

That's fair, but shuffling a deck of cards and having the outcome of the game mostly determined from the setup based on how the cards are ordered can be unsatisfying, and that part doesn't feel thematic to us at all. Thematically, what does it represent if, for example, all the blue cards are clumped together near the bottom of the deck so we lose because we didn't find the blue cure? It's just bad luck and a metaphor for the lack of control we have in real life? For me, having so much of the result determined by how that deck gets shuffled is the game's biggest problem and what makes it feel like it's showing its age. - Carlo

[@Poiuytrew.Q]

@@AllYouCanBoard it’s possible to survive to the end of the player deck. We’ve done it on several games and sometimes we lose on the last card because we chose poorly. And that happens in real life. Sometimes cures happen because of luck. Sometimes cures aren’t found or time runs out - that is like life! The set up with the cards that keep returning makes sense because an infection is more likely to occur where it already exists versus spontaneously popping up somewhere else.