Her Vegetative State Caused Congress, President Bush & Even the Pope to Weigh In | Retro Report

[@alijane6675]

I remember this well. The parents insisted Terri could see and loved balloons and faces. Her husband said they were exaggerating her reactions. After her death, the autopsy showed she had no optic nerve connection, and was totally blind.

[@TakiMomoify]

God, that is so fucked up.

[@user-ki7hi3wq9t]

Wow so her eyes were “seeing” but not her brain...

[@foxylee]

@Thora Friganza definitely the case.

[@cup6669]

I’m sorry but I chuckled a little yes I have a spot in hell for me

[@TomikaKelly]

Me too. I'm from Florida; I was in 9th grade when this happened. I think the parents struggled to let her go. Personally, I think if the husband no longer wanted to care for her he should've left her care in her parent's hands.

[@melykm4051]

See here's the thing. The husband said, "What Terri wanted, what Terri wanted, what Terri wanted," and the family said, "What WE want, What WE want, what WE want," The brother even said. They didn't care. They wanted to keep her. I understand they loved her, but it's still heinously selfish.

[@Jennifer_Janice]

it’s really sad when the husband knows MORE about what his wife wanted than her own family, truly heartbreaking regardless. no one should live that way, at all. Her family was just too caught up in their own emotions. i applaud her husband.

[@kristynkazumi]

Exactly!!! And they still are saying WE. Shameful.

[@nadiastar6264]

How does the husband know what Terri wants if Terri cannot communicate. The truth is nobody knew what Terri wanted and we will never find out.

[@melykm4051]

@@nadiastar6264 they spoke about it, which many couples do. Unfortunately she never filled out an advanced directive, or he could have seen it through for her quickly without torturing her poor body for over a decade.

[@nadiastar6264]

Mel ykm If what the article said was true then you were right. Even the parents knew that she did not want to live that way yet they continued to keep her alive. The only thing I’m mad about is the fact that her husband kept her alive for five years before he decided he wanted to remove the feeding tube. Why didn’t he want to do that sooner?

[@chalinmari]

As a former end of life nurse.... sometimes people are kept “alive” only for the living relatives feelings. It’s selfish and disgusting. I wish everyone could to be forced to take care of a person like this. They would finally see it. The family is not there 24/7 the staff is and it’s horrifying.

[@stonedalldayjedi533]

Wow what a career to have. I respect your spirit to be able to endure working in that kind of environment

[@brittnismith5997]

Exactly, I was a CNA and had several residents who didn't wish to be resucitated. Family memebers didn't care what their will said and chose to keep them alive. The residents were miserable and the families barely cared enough to visit them.

[@TomikaKelly]

My mom is a hospice nurse so I can understand where you are coming from. The problem is, she didn't have a living will. No one can say for sure that what the husband said Teri would want is actually true.

[@cutienerdgirl]

@@TomikaKelly She obviously didn't only tell her husband that she wanted to be euthanized if she was in a vegetative state, if he did that he would have no leg to stand on.

[@taylorloch2632]

I don't think it's selfish. Its a very tough emotional decision and parents want to believe there will be some sort of miracle and their child will come back.

[@MellyMae44]

"It didn't matter to us if Terri never improved from her condition." That's kind of the issue though, isn't it? What if it mattered to Terri? If she didn't want to exist in that condition, if she had indeed expressed that at some point before her brain injury. That's the opinion that matters. Not her brother's, mother's or father's opinion. They were only thinking how they felt about the situation and how they were affected. Her wishes weren't taken into consideration.

[@AngelicaRodriguez-mb2ld]

Exactly. They're really not taking into consideration what she wanted. It's hard to say goodbye to someone you love desperately, but the kindest, most gracious thing you can do is honor their wishes - especially at the end of life. There's something so sacred about the end... and her family really made it a miserable experience for all involved.

[@TomikaKelly]

The issue is, how do we know for a fact what her wishes were? Her husband can say anything. I would imagine and hope he's telling the truth, but this case, if nothing else, highlighted a need for a living will and the necessity to get one's affairs in order.

[@EyeLean5280]

You know what? A lot of people claim they'd "rather die than [fill in the blank]." They'd rather die than go back to waitressing, rather die than stay in abusive relationship, rather die than endure a concentration camp, yadda, yadda, yadda. Well, guess what? Once they're put in that position, most fight like hell * not * to die. You and I have * zero * idea what it would be like to live in a vegetative state, being medically cared for. Maybe it would be like gently hovering between dozing and sleeping. Maybe we'd dream. And maybe, if our food source were taken away, we'd suffer pangs of hunger, then the agony of starvation. Maybe some primitive part of our brain would despair, then panic. We have no idea what that death would be like, so how can anyone make an informed choice about it ahead of time?

[@yamato6114]

They’re selfish. She was suffering and the best choice was to let her go but they kept her alive for their own emotional benefit.

[@EyeLean5280]

@@yamato6114 You don't think death by starvation over the course of two weeks causes suffering? Have you tried it?

[@janetkizer5956]

Terri Schiavo was kept alive for years by her husband, her parents and her brother, while they searched for ways to help her recover. When, after trying everything, the doctors told them she would never recover any mental abilities whatsoever her husband wanted to let her die peacefully, her parents and brother wanted to keep her alive like an object. Her mother called her a baby, for God's sake. I can't imagine anything more horrible than decades of 'living' like that. How could a mother do that to her daughter? Yes, I understand it would hurt to let her die, but we all die eventually. What made it worse was how they treated her husband, and how they dragged images of Terri through the media, turning her into a circus animal or something. That's not love. It's utter selfishness.

[@TomikaKelly]

If you were alive in this state you wouldnt even know that you were alive... There was no living will so it was one person's word against the other. What this really comes down to is having an advanced directive or living will and who gets to make decisions you if you cant.

[@user-ct6hr5nu1q]

To be fair, the family probably did feel like letting her starve was effectively murder. They seemed pretty religious and believed her “soul” was ultimately still in her body. I don’t think it was out of selfishness necessarily just ignorance and denial

[@hollybigelow5337]

I have a lot of mixed feelings about the ethics surrounding these types of cases, but I will say the one thing that bothers me most is I can't imagine a situation where I would describe starving to death as "dying peacefully." Perhaps if Terri truly didn't have a clue what was happening she didn't feel the agony of dying that way. I certainly hope that is the case. But I wouldn't trust any scientist to be able to conclusively say she didn't suffer.

[@sammychannel960]

There is a huge difference in not resuscitating a dying person and starving them to death. Starvation is painful and dehydration is excruciating. He ended the marriage when he committed adultery and yes, he had a conflict of interest because of that relationship. Her family wanted to take responsibility for her and would have cared for her through the rest of her life which is what he promised to do when he received basically a million-dollar award. And I do think it's pretty despicable that he used the money that was awarded to him to cover her medical care to pay his legal bills so that he could kill her.

[@Kalentros]

Anyone else see the irony in the people who wanted to use the powers of government to interfere in this case are the ones who decry "big government intruding on our lives" the most?

[@VintageKimchi]

@Levi Brennan You misunderstand. It's people who are gone that are being forced by the government to stay alive even when they don't want too.

[@artvandelayRFC]

@Levi Brennan It's that all Americans do...argue over 2 corrupt political parties? Sad.

[@TakiMomoify]

G_GlasgowRFC Pretty much. We spend so much time arguing over people who don’t give a damn about us that we never get anything productive done. It’s depressing. 😔

[@rachel_sj]

Not to mention how many people we were killing in Afghanistan and Iraq during the years people were arguing over one life (and the fallout in Syria and Yemen today). Pro Life my ass....

[@artvandelayRFC]

@@TakiMomoify Yup! Sounds like it.

[@Thisgirltell]

This case is why I had my will written when I was 20. My worst fear is this happening and I wouldn’t want to live that way or burden my family.

[@loriparsley1914]

Xion Memoria I have always said the only reason I would want to be put on life support would be if I was pregnant. Then just let me go.

[@chrisgriffin7357]

Well, you'd be so retarded you literally wouldn't know what was happening, so it wouldn't be that horrible of an existence.

[@groovymovie3213]

It was cruel to keep her living like that. She had stated she wouldn’t want to live like that. Could you imagine how agonizing it had to be for her to know that, and not be able to physically tell anyone that she wanted to die? To just have to remain there until someone decided to finally let her out of her misery? That’s my worst nightmare.

[@annebruecks7381]

Madeline H. Make sure you have an advance directive signed and give it to someone you can trust.

[@GC-pq6vm]

She was a young beautiful lady who suffered from bulimia which caused her to have a heart attack (low potassium) and cut off blood supply to her brain. No one would want to live like that. I was a new ICU nurse when this story came out and my views still haven’t changed. The parents were selfish to keep her alive when they knew her wishes. Shame on them.

[@TomikaKelly]

She was brain dead. She didn't know she was in that state.

[@G.Sharb1]

Metallicas’ ‘one’ plays in the background

[@sammychannel960]

Her husband's word was taken in regard to what her supposed wishes would have been that case was not provable and I'm sure that she wouldn't have wanted to be starved to death and put through death by starvation and dehydration that's horrible.

[@oceanstaiga5928]

I was in a comatose state for weeks due to cancer complications and I can say, anything like that as a permanent state I would not want either, furthermore a vegetative state is just not something you can ever really bounce back from.

[@theroadtocosplayandcomicco5840]

Stupid question but is it true you hear things while in coma?

[@oceanstaiga5928]

@@theroadtocosplayandcomicco5840 since I wasn't in a full coma I can't answer, I was only in a comatose state but after when I got out of that phase where I couldn't really react I definitely had memory of what happened and could tell the doctors that stuff. But after weeks in intensive care I forgot all of those memories, I was told it is because of the medicine and they do it on purpose because you hallucinate and imagine quite a lot so it would be distressing to remember it vividly and instead being in a comatose state calms your brain and let's your body heal better. For me it was medically induced too I must add.

[@melonie_peppers]

How are you doing now

[@howardbaxter2514]

Out of curiosity, what was it like being in a comatose state? I've always wondered, and want to be aware of what someone might be going through if they are in a coma or in a comatose state.

[@oceanstaiga5928]

@@howardbaxter2514 since I wasn't in a full coma I was still aware of being talked to and could somewhat react a little. I'd even watch TV or my dad would read to me and when asked about it i could at some points sign what the score was with my fingers. But mostly I was basically out and slept for most of the day. Thing is what i remember i would describe it as being overly tired the whole time you're awake, can't move much really and just feel as if you were awoken at 4 am. Afterwards I forgot 95% of what happened during the time I was heavily sedated eventhough I did have some memory while I was in that state. It was almost as if the few memories disappeared over time, I didn't even remember my father reading to me when he finished a whole book almost. Its very frustrating and confusing coming out of it because you don't know what happened and just "wake up" to whatever happened and your body being super weak because you didn't use you're muscles. Took a lot of time to accept what happened because I didn't have the memory of it happening and it just felt like I got the after effects of it bam right then and there.

[@momjeans9238]

No one is too young to die, and this is why we all need funeral plans and a living will.

[@shadrach6299]

You need to give a loved one Power of Attorney for health care. It’s better than a living will.

[@flclub54]

I'm 35 and just did my living will and appointed my husband as my healthcare surrogate - coronavirus prompted me to do this - just in case. I didn't do the medical initiative because the way it's worded is very black and white, however, my husband knows my wishes and knows more than anyone that I value life and want to live, but knows my wishes are to "pull the plug" should I ever be in a situation like Terri (rest in peace). It's scary and intimidating to have to plan your own death but you do your family a disservice having them go running around like crazy or worst fighting one another like in this story's situation. Just get it out the way and you'll never have to think of it again.

[@theroadtocosplayandcomicco5840]

Im 21 and I think I should start writting my will and funeral plans. Do I need a lawer to write my will ?

[@momjeans9238]

@@theroadtocosplayandcomicco5840 for a will to be honored, it will need legal help. But your actual bodily care is based on the living will!

[@RegstarRogstar]

@@theroadtocosplayandcomicco5840 if you live in america i think ask a mortician has a video on that! You just need witness i think

[@alysannetargaryen8986]

I would be horrified if my family plastered my face like that on national television. Poor woman.

[@TsukiNaito1]

It boggles my mind that todsy people don't want the terminally ill to have the right to decide to die. Maybe you'd choose to suffer (you probably wouldn't) but that doesn't mean other people have to.

[@KatieGrady1997]

TsukiNaito1 absolutely agree

[@chistinelane]

I would choose to. Life is too precious to give up on

[@LucareonVee]

chistine lane The problem that I have with that statement is this question: is it still life if you aren’t even able to tell that you’re alive and never will be able to tell again? I’ve seen family members go through things like this. Not nearly as horrific as what Terri went through, but painful nonetheless. I wouldn’t want to go through that. Basic fact: it is your choice, and I would never deny that. But you should consider that your feelings aren’t as universal as you might think.

[@Thepersianpopinjay]

chistine lane I wouldn’t. I LOVE life, but if I am going to die anyway, and that death will be torturous, I would take the option to peacefully go to God. Life is wonderful, so I would like to pass while it is still as wonderful as it can be. It’s not giving up if your illness will 100% take your life in the near future anyway.

[@sammychannel960]

This isn't about people having the right to choose life or death this is about someone else choosing for them especially someone who had a conflict of interest such as being in an adulterous relationship and living with another woman.

[@memaw5455]

Quality over quantity. I really hate it when healthy people decide unhealthy should have to live. Lying in a bed, unresponsive for 20 yrs isn't living. I would want to die.

[@TomikaKelly]

Well then you need to make sure you have a will because that was Terri's problem.

[@adrianagflores5587]

This is why you shouldn’t leave your medical decisions up to your family. Your family will tear themselves to shreds . Get your wishes in writing , create an advance directive, give it your doctor , every family member , friends , lawyer , significant other , because what happened to Terri can happen to anybody.

[@LittleMissDeath]

When I was a kid, my church tried to tell me that letting her die was an act of hatred and evil. I held that belief for a long time. I’m glad I matured and realized how wrong that belief was.

[@laniejean6618]

As a Christian myself, I know that religious trauma can be absolutely cruel. I believe that the best thing for Terri was to let her soul rise and fly instead of keeping her trapped in such misery for fifteen years.

[@HollieMoodie]

What I can't understand is why starve her for 2 weeks? That is beyond f****ed up. They could have just done euthanasia and made it painless. Can you imagine the pain of starving for 2 weeks? Probably in a hospital smelling food in the next room. Makes me wish hell was real, so everyone working at that facility can go.

[@LittleMissDeath]

@@HollieMoodie That's why I'm very pro euthanasia for cases like these, terminal cancer, etc.

[@nabibomohamedafrax2818]

How wrong you Are now

[@LittleMissDeath]

@@nabibomohamedafrax2818 🙄

[@ckotcher1]

This really pissed me off and it made me immediately go to my parents and say “I want a living will and if I collapse with no brain activity you better not keep me alive!!”

[@davidmella1174]

What if a week later some groundbreaking medicine comes out that could help you eventually recover, but you died anyways? Im not saying that it would happen, but if you were a "ghost" that was just watching, would you regret it?

[@lils426]

@@gerardcalison4315 I couldn’t imagine living through that and remembering it all. Living in a personal hell you were put in by your family? And even if she couldn’t remember anything (which I doubt she could) being told that I was meant to stay like that, a vegetable, for nothing? Couldn’t imagine

[@heatherhillman1]

I have made it clear to my husband and my kids that I am NEVER to be left alive in a vegetative state or with severe dementia. No feeding tube under any circumstances. Just let me go. Between this controversial case and my grandmother dying of Alzheimers just a few years earlier, I saw far too much suffering and bickering. Not worth it.

[@trizzwiz9368]

I remember my Mom telling me and my sisters the same thing. She was dead serious. Too young to understand at the time but now I really do understand that you have to put everything into perspective and really ask is this even "living" ?

[@theroadtocosplayandcomicco5840]

@@trizzwiz9368 my dad or mom haven't told me their end of life plans. As much as I love my parents I will try my best to fullfil their wishes. I can't imagine a world without my parents.

[@user-sb1vz9pv5y]

I totally agree. Although I would add that I would want the doctors to do every test they need to do to determine if I was in a vegetative state. I don't want to be left in a vegetative state but I don't want them to do one test and go well we're done.

[@elisejackson2854]

i'm sorry but her parents were selfish to keep her on for so long.

[@davidmella1174]

Whats in it for them if they left her alive? I dont think selfish is the right word.

[@elisejackson2854]

@@davidmella1174 it definitely is the right one. She was a shell, in pain, basically brain dead and blind. She NEVER wanted to live that way but they wanted her alive so she had to stay alive. Selfish.

[@TraditionalAviator]

I believe in the right to end your life if you are in this sort of situation, or you have terminal cancer and as the time nears, rather than suffering in the end you are allowed to go on your own terms peacefully with medical assistance, etc. But I feel like starving Terri was cruel- that is cruel. Starving to death is a slow, painful death for anyone. Terri should of gotten a cocktail of painkillers and other medicines that would of let her go without any struggle or pain. I don't know if Terri felt uncomfortable her last days, and I hope she didn't. But there are better ways to let people go peacefully.

[@TraditionalAviator]

@Elizabeth Frantes I am aware it's not legal, but it should be. A case like this is a good example of that. And I hate that she suffered so like this. I work in a nursing home, and I have seen too many suffer bc families weren't willing to let them go.

[@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive]

I think Terri was allowed morphine in her final days.

[@TraditionalAviator]

@@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive that's comforting to know, thank you for telling me!

[@GC-pq6vm]

She did get morphine like someone in hospice to alleviate suffering. But it still sounds terrible. Her wishes were to not be kept alive like that and I wouldn’t want to either.

[@TraditionalAviator]

@@GC-pq6vm I'm glad she did, but her wishes should of been followed- I agree with you 100%. It's EXTREMELY important to plan your death as early as possible. I am working as a CNA during this pandemic, and the way my workplace is handling it is making me consider writing a will.

[@JRandaII]

When my grandmother was ninety-three years old, she had to go into the hospital for a broken hip. She had to have surgery. She signed a DNR. She got through the surgery just fine. I was saddened to hear about her DNR. I couldn’t believe that she wouldn’t want to be resuscitated. I couldn’t imagine my grandmother passing away because she didn’t want to be resuscitated. But, it took me ten minutes to calm myself down and reconcile that this is what she wanted for herself, and I respected that. I was just being selfish. If I truly loved her I would respect her wishes. I truly loved her. I’m ashamed that it took me ten minutes to remember that…

[@jakmanxyom]

6:37 - As a non-American who only knows Jeb "please clap" Bush through internet memes, hearing about Jeb mentioned here out of nowhere is one helluva surprise.

[@rocknrollfuelthesoul]

I think about Terri a lot. I survived a sudden cardiac arrest at 19 due to an unknown Long Q T syndrome and went 20 minutes without a heart beat. I was lucky to have been working at whole foods located 4 blocks from Vancouver General hospital where an ER nurse gave me CPR until the advanced life support ambulance arrived. They arrived 20 minutes after collapse, being 4 blocks away from me. I am so incredibly fortunate to have had that nurse on her lunch break there. Her story breaks my heart and haunts me at the same time.

[@jpmnky]

This story has just been completely forgotten about. It was possibly the biggest story of 2005.

[@kristynkazumi]

What her family fails to realize it that it’s not about what they want. It’s about what SHE wants. Her family is so selfish. Yea it doesn’t matter to you what her quality of life is because you don’t have to live it.

[@davidmella1174]

What if they wanted it for her because they thought that she would rather be alive?

[@kristynkazumi]

David Mella She told her husband she did not want that.

[@sammychannel960]

​@@kristynkazumiYou must take his word for that because she didn't tell anyone else. His word was tainted by a conflict of interest.

[@bml3408]

Disconnecting her feeding tube and making her starve sounds a little extreme. Was there not another way? I completely agree with her wishes and what her husband says.

[@dragonfistX200]

She had no brain activity, she can't realize that she starved to death

[@halliehurst4847]

She had no brain activity so wouldn’t have realised anyways, but she also would have been given morphine to not feel the pain. Or discreetly overdosed on morphine, but probably not in this case since it was so closely watched. Anything else touches on the euthanasia issue which is a whole other kettle of fish.

[@reesecup3ify]

There was no other way. They couldn't legally euthanize her. Besides, she was deliberately starving herself anyway before the accident which is what caused her cardiac arrest.

[@SimmSumm]

I remember watching this go down as a young teen. I was about 13-14 years old at the time. It confused me, I understood her husband and was on his side, I just didn't understand why they had to let her starve to death. I'm not sure if she suffered or had any feeling of what was happening to her.

[@mieke109]

I don't know how the laws are in the US but it could be that this is the only way that it's not considered murder by law.

[@SimmSumm]

Emma Vicktorius possibly. A few states actually legalized assisted suicide though. They give you this liquid to drink and you just fall asleep. Dead within like 30 minutes. I saw a documentary about it.

[@eparigon]

Jasmine i would like some of that

[@autumnphillips6503]

So from my understanding when you are in a state like Terri/brain dead removal of nutrition does not harm the person because they are not conscious/aware enough to process the feeling of hunger.

[@SimmSumm]

Autumn Phillips ahh okay.

[@sayhello5377]

I remember this. It really wasn’t an issue of “flipping the switch” in the case where someone can’t even breathe on her own, and they would die in a minute or two. The court allowed her to die by literally letting her starve to death. It took 13 days. It was gruesome. I have a living will because of this.

[@ansel203]

I know it seems horrible, but her brain was so damaged that she likely did not feel any discomfort.

[@TomikaKelly]

If this case caused you to get a living will then some good came out of it. Honestly, in her state, whether Terri lived or died wouldnt have mattered because she was completely unaware. This was more about the living than the dead.

[@spaceishigh]

I was very young when this happened but I remember it well. When I was a baby, my uncle was a teenager and was huffing butane with friends when he collapsed in the street down the street from his house and they all ran away, leaving him there. Word of what happened made it to my mother, who was there at the house and she ran up the street and carried him to the house and called 911. He ended up with permanent brain damage, paralyzed from the neck down and blind. My grandfather cared for him at home until his passing, and we moved into the house she grew up in and my mother took over care of my uncle. He was somewhat aware but couldn't speak or eat, so you could talk to him and he would laugh and say the few words he could (he loved to swear, his favorite saying was "no shit") How much he really comprehended I'm not sure, but he definitely would interact and answer you. I would hang out in his room a lot and watch movies with him and play music. It seemed like he retained some memory of his life before his accident, but had no short term memory. It happened when he was 14-15 years old, so it must have been hell for him to be essentially stuck at 15 and unable to move or talk for the rest of his life. He had a feeding tube and would constantly have sores on the back of his body, he was very stiff and his arms were pretty much stuck bent at about a 75-90 degree angle so even with propping him on his side with pillows periodically he'd still get the sores on his body. After growing up around him and seeing everything that he had to endure with his conditions, I never understood what the issue was with the Terri Shaivo case. I remember being about 12 when the story came out and I could clearly see that she wasn't there, not even half the function that my uncle had. Even with my uncles condition, I had always thought that I would NOT want to live like that. One could only hope to find a partner in life that loves you enough to fight that hard for your peace. If you read this whole thing, you should go make a living will RIGHT NOW!!!! Make your wishes known for what happens to you in the event that your autonomy is taken away so that there's no question and your family doesn't have to make this tough decision for you. It's a shame that case had to drag on for as long as it did but I strongly believe it was for the better. I feel the same way about my uncle when he passed, he is more at peace now than he ever would have been in life. I was sad, but at the same time I wasn't.

[@chazz4118]

Why is it that we put our pets down when they're suffering, but people keep people live, basically for their own feelings? I wouldnt want to live in that state. Even if I was conscious, I wouldn't want to be trapped in my own mind. It must be absolute hell.

[@riotbreaker3506]

"I Have no Mouth and I Must Scream" presents the "death" of a character by turning him into a conscious blob with no movement or senses, I understand the family's desire to save her, but ultimately it isn't spiritually or economically sound to hold someone in such a state for a prolonged time. Finding peace was the only option.

[@MinaMcKay]

Rest in peace Terri.

[@mintbrisk5961]

This entire situation is just devastating for a lot people. We just can’t handle such grief

[@elainejsta]

All that dragging the husband through the mud when he just didn’t want her to suffer anymore. Your love of someone doesn’t justify extending their lifespan, especially when they lack a quality of life.

[@Vintagebeliever]

The husband was the one selfish.. he already had someone else. If the parents wanted to care for her, he could of let them. Terri was smiling and other things. And no one truly knows what Terri's wish was, she never had it in writing. The husband could of said anything. She should of been higher on that list, before Oprah.

[@FanyLI]

She was not a person anymore, she had no consiousness, she could just feel pain, it was just cruel keeping her body alive.

[@elenamorin7157]

Elizabeth Frantes wow way to be an asshole😂

[@FanyLI]

@trapd00rspider because she still feels pain, it's not that difficult to understand, don't jump into fallacies.

[@FanyLI]

@trapd00rspider There have been numerous papers from diverse medics on this matter that suggest that it is highly possible for many people in vegetative states to feel pain, if you are interested you can look them up, I find Steven Laureys' study particularly interesting.

[@FanyLI]

@trapd00rspider I am talking about the actual, complete paper, not just the introduction. I don't really trust "articles" on scientific studies, (or investigations in general) they tend to be misleading and way too shortened in their explanations. That's why I read the complete papers, though I understand not everyone has access to such information as most of the time you have to pay for the complete papers.

[@FanyLI]

@trapd00rspider I am aware is there for free... I wrote that I understand if people do not read papers in general since most are actually not free, that's just a fact lol, why did you came to the idea that I had not read it based on that, well I can only assume you lack reading comprehension skills. Obviously you had a different conclusion after reading it than I did, you are not gonna change my mind and I am not gonna change your mind, and frankly I do not care enough to actually try beyond providing that information.

[@dannytheman1313]

I remember people were loosing their minds demanding that she must be kept alive but at the same time the woman was a prisoner of her own body, she couldn't see, hear, speak, her most basic bodily function had to be done by machine. If I was in her shoes I would have been begging for death. The husband was being painted as the villain in this case when in reality he was the one who really had her interest at heart. People were screaming that he was a monster when in truth he was setting her free from the hell she must have been in.

[@ambricem]

I still don’t understand why the husband wouldn’t just let the parents take over care. What they didn’t speak about is within months of her accident he was in another relationship with a woman and if he divorced Terri he wouldn’t get her life insurance which he’d only get if she died. So he wasn’t trying to uphold her wishes he wanted a new relationship and cash.

[@benemerald]

akmuk87 Right, even though she couldn’t think or feel and had asked him to pull the plug if she was ever in a vegetative state.

[@benemerald]

@@lovealllife748 I don’t even remember the full context here, but if I was in a horrible vegetative state where I couldn’t even so much as think properly, I would probably want the plug to be pulled too.

[@SandfordSmythe]

He followed his wife's wishes. You miss that part?

[@riverj4432]

The wish to be or not to be a vegetable should be a question asked when applying for a driver's license, just like declaring one's self as an organ donor.

[@nadiastar6264]

They could have given her morphine, they could have given her a lethal injection, but to starve of someone to death and to deprive them of water is inhumane and is one of the worst ways to go.

[@benemerald]

Nadia Star She couldn’t feel pain, all that was left was her brain stem.

[@NB-gu9rs]

Republicans, at one woman with no remaining cerebral activity: MY GOD WE MUST SAVE HER YOU MONSTERS Republicans, after over a hundred thousand plague deaths: *crickets*

[@andrewzgherea2206]

N B implying most of those deaths were caused by corona

[@zackiechan2601]

I dont think you understand how it works lmao.

[@sammychannel960]

Of all the comments on this video many of which I completely disagree with I find your comment to be the most despicable...but let me respond in kind...leave it to a leftist loonie to turn this tragedy into an opportunity to trash millions of people that you have never met. Deplorable.

[@maryhough8041]

I remember a story about a firefighter who was in a coma/vegetative state for 10 years then he woke up again. Also, as long as Terri wasn’t in pain, I don’t understand why you people would think its “heinously” selfish. I feel like this could be a slippery slope.

[@johncase1353]

She was legally fully brain dead and by all medical accounts dead and was just being kept "alive" by the machines. Also hoped her family fully paid the bills because keeping her "alive" was easily costing $10,000 or much more a day which if it fell on the state to pay that's tax money being used for someone who would never be brought out of that state.

[@MeBeCreepy]

My mom’s a nurse and she tells me if she was ever in a state where she was just a body being kept alive that I should pull the plug

[@astrea79]

I remember watching the Terri Shaivo case and it really affirmed the importance of having a will and making wishes known to our families. But it was a sad case all around.

[@rootsm3]

It’s inhumane to keep someone in that state alive.

[@schm714]

I remember this well. Immediately after Terri was allowed to die in peace, I wrote a very detailed advanced directive so my family and I would never be in this situation. This is so heart breaking.

[@sirijaw]

Recently in France a similar story happened, a dude (he was a nurse) who got an accident and was in a comas for a long time, some of his relatives and wife wanted him to die in peace but his parents and other relatives wanted him to live. He was in a vegetative sate brain dead for 8 years. The Catholic church was against his death it became a big thing in the french speaking part of Europe. He finally was released of his suffering

[@BeatrizPereira-mk2cr]

We followed that story in Belgium and it still blew my mind that a religious institution was allowed to stick its nose in the story. Glad he is now finally resting in peace.

[@marsharowaihy6725]

Why did the husband, keep her alive so long, then say Terri didn’t want to live like that? Was he wanting to remarry?

[@Stg9900]

I would want my husband to remarry if there was no way for him to get his wife back

[@mrtutrle2626]

The parents in the brother were just in it for themselves. He says so, he said " it didn't matter if Terri improved." That's just selfish on their part they wanted to keep her alive. That's not fair to Terry. Why would you want your loved one to stay and suffer for your benefit? It infuriates me the way they acted.

[@worldbuilder3262]

I have a terminal illness, if would get worse soon I wouldn’t want to live. please just listen to people and families

[@HollieMoodie]

Hope you are in a better place, wherever you are.

[@pynkannihilator]

I remember this. I was in high school, but remember the media, and crowds outside her hospital and the families fighting.

[@mintbrisk5961]

All of this unnecessary mongering and she’s suffering in this state. She needs peace. LET HER REST.

[@Tellysayhi]

The events in this video occured in 2005, Terri passed in 2005

[@Mimi-cq4bg]

A dear friend had terminal colorectal cancer. He signed a paper, a date was set, and the hospital staff saw to it that he left this world in the best way he could given the circumstances. It's a shame her parents wouldnt afford her the same dignity complete strangers did for my friend.

[@TomikaKelly]

The keywords are: "he signed a paper." Teri did not have a living will or an advanced directive (even though she lived a dangerous lifestyle) so it's really anyone's grab. This is more a matter of who is next of kin and who can make decisions for you.

[@howardbaxter2514]

It's a difficult issue when you do not definitively know what the patient wants. Sometimes there are times where the patient believes they can and will pull through. Sometimes there are times where the patient knows that they will never recover and it is best that they should die. The problem arises when either the patient cannot effectively communicate their needs, and when something can potentially be done to help the patient. It's also worth noting that there have been stories of people recovering from being in vegetative states for months or even years. Like I said, it this is a very difficult issue and should always be taken on a case by case basis.

[@tanvikhare9710]

I feel like making a will now but my parents will just think I'm suicidal😶

[@sailboatrn7372]

Please, please discuss your wishes in case of something like this. Discuss your end of life wishes with your entire family and friends. As a retired nurse, I am here to assure you that it will hurt no matter which way you decide to proceed if you are the relative. That is why it is always best to do what the patient wants. Talk about it. Let your wishes and feelings be known. Don’t wait and have to have someone you love to have to make that decision. Get it in WRITING with an advance directive. Get a medical power of attorney as someone you trust to carry out your wishes. It does not have to be your family. It can be a friend with medical knowledge or your physician. The more you put into writing, the easier it will be for those who love you and the medical professionals who take care of you to carry out YOUR wishes.

[@theroadtocosplayandcomicco5840]

Do I need an attorney to write my will ? What should I say in my will ?

[@sailboatrn7372]

The Road to Cosplay and Comic Con you do not need an attorney to write your will. There are online wills available. Look up Five Wishes for more information on what to put in your advance directive. Good luck.

[@tudorjason]

I remember this issue. It seemed very sad that Terri, this woman who was practically a stranger to everyone but a dozen people, became the face of the assisted suicide legal and political debate. I wouldn't want that. But then again, I wouldn't want to remain in a vegetative state. IMO, how I want to end my life should be no one's business, especially politicians and strangers. Anyone else's political and religious perspectives shouldn't dictate my life. If you're against physician-assisted suicide legalization, I really want to know: Why should your perspective affect me? What gives you the right to have a say?

[@jacindapeters2303]

Truly a sad story 😥

[@EeveeFromAlmia]

It's such a strange standard when you compare Humans to every other animal. Your dog gets a weak heart from age or breaks its leg? Yeah it's 100% just to shoot it in the head out in the head, no problem here. It's all the same thing, Humans are just obsessive. Let people die, man.

[@peaceoglory]

The only thing I don't understand is why remove the feeding tube and let het suffer for days instead of giving her a lethal dose of pain meds, morphine or whatever? It does kinda seem cruel to dehidrate and starve a person like that. Just end it quickly. Personaly, I truly don't know what I would want for myself in that situation, as I couldn't bring myself to put down a pet. But I do respect other people's choices.

[@GC-pq6vm]

peaceoglory because we treat our pets’ deaths with more dignity for some reason. Some states are now allowing assisted suicide but it has become a touchy subject because for insurance companies...a lethal dose of barbiturates is cheaper than extreme treatments like chemo, etc. They could unethically just recommend that over a more expensive yet effective treatment. It’s crazy

[@redmanish]

At the time it was illegal to do anything to “hasten death.” (You can remove therapies and supportive devices like feeding tubes and ventilators, but you can’t deliberately prescribe drugs to hasten death.) It’s still illegal in most states. That’s why even people with terminal illnesses who are on hospice are only allowed a certain allotment of pain meds like morphine per day. A lot of the time it’s not enough to control their pain but anything more and the doctor could get in trouble for hastening their death, as morphine can suppress breathing in high enough doses. When my grandma died at home on hospice we were required by the state to phone the police ASAP, who had to come and make sure the IV morphine hadn’t been tampered with. She was essentially drowning in her own lung fluids at the end and looked terrified, but if we’d given her more morphine to ease the transition we could’ve been charged with murder. It’s insane.

[@TomikaKelly]

@@redmanish I'm terribly sorry about your grandma. Was she cognizant?

[@Ariana-wv4pf]

Exactly. Why let her die of dehydration (which she really died from)? It's a painful death but they thought she couldn't feel it.

[@angelofdeath275]

i was born in 1991, and remember case being brought up in i believe in a social studies class. needless to say the entire class was uncomfortable, but I’m glad it was discussed.

[@pattymayocakes]

It's interesting to me the title talks about the Pope's involvement - Terri and Pope John Paul II died within 2 days of each other

[@chobits543]

My father and I talked about this when I was a young teen. We both agreed that letting the dead die is what is best. Terri died years before her body did.

[@sarahewson3607]

No matter what your opinion is on this, there’s a lesson for all of us- HAVE A LIVING WILL. It’s not fun to think about, but this case proves that no age is exempt from the unexpected.

[@straponpigeon8566]

The south park episode was awesome. Kenny's will being found at the end. If I'm ever in a vegetative state.... for the love of God don't put my body on national television.

[@Toilbaby]

Terri Shivos husband had the right to make the call he did yet not telling her parents where she was put to rest is MONSTROUS. This decision will haunt him, probably thru their children. A mother not being allowed to visit her daughter’s final grave.......is unforgivable. Lodie

[@eparigon]

The parents were awful to her, clearly. They didnt love her, and what they did to her shows that. They didnt love her, they loved being parents.

[@enflamedhuevos]

If he did tell them, they’d probably sic their cult of right wing and religious nut jobs on the resting place and demand to have her body exhumed and moved to where THEY wanted it.

[@RoninMilli]

Whether or not she was really vegetative mentally... she told her husband she didnt want to live like that. Case closed. Because my family and I have all agreed we wont allow each other to live like this.

[@sammychannel960]

She told no one except her husband?

[@RoninMilli]

@@sammychannel960 death, dying and grief make people do irrational things. When my mom was passing I was getting yelled at bc I didnt bring her home to pass. She literally couldnt make the trip. It was impossible to explain to emotional family. My mom was ready. The family wasn’t ready to let her go.

[@CristySFM1234]

keeping someone who can't move, speak, and function alive is like letting a very sick person die a slow death

[@Thepersianpopinjay]

Cases like this are why it is so so important that you have an advanced directive or living will. Even if you are nowhere close to dying, you never know when you’re going to get hit by a bus. If have you your wishes written down in a legally binding document this kind of situation cannot happen to you.

[@Julia-cp9nt]

if you can’t have a quality of life then what’s the point of living

[@mchessacatulong]

My mom was right... let's not keep people alive for our selfish reasons. If it's their time, let them go. I remember my grandma last dec. 2019 a few weeks before she died she told us that she really needs to rest, and when she was hospitalized she was almost in a vegetative state but she could still talk. In her last day (*night*) we weren't there in her final breaths but my cousin was there and she said it was heart breaking to see her monitor going down slowly until it was gone.

[@marsharowaihy6725]

Is it ethical to literally dye of dehydration & starvation? This doesn’t make since to me

[@R.E._Peony]

They say she died “peacefully.” She died of starvation and thirst.

[@SandfordSmythe]

​@@R.E._PeonyThese are not felt by conscious dying people.

[@katiesmith661]

For me, letting her die wasn’t what bothered me, it was the method they chose. Dying by hunger and/or dehydration is a painful and brutal way to go.

[@HollieMoodie]

That's what I couldn't understand. Why is euthanasia which is painless and quick, illegal, but starving someone (which is an agonizing painful death) completely legal and morally right?!

[@phoenixrising4448]

This woman was murdered. God is the ONLY one who should judge when we live or die! Her "husband" might have been able to dodge the consequences on Earth, but will surely answer to our Heavenly Father one day! May Terri RIP. I pray her family finds peace and comfort in the memories they shared with Terri!

[@SandfordSmythe]

So tell God to cure her

[@lunazwolf]

Whether her family loved her or not, she would've been trapped in her body of she was in fact cognitively aware. She'd be suffering. It's selfish.

[@mintbrisk5961]

Loss is the most difficult thing to bear and it’s never easy. Trust me, I know how it feels

[@marquisdehoto1638]

It's important, even at a young age, to write it down. I don't know if I wanted a life where I can't do anything.... and the next question... when does a life end and when does existing start? I can totally understand her parents... that they keep on the idea that she was alive somewhere inside... it's freaking hard to make this decision. On the other hand, you don't want to suffer for years just because people can't say goodbye. I don't want anybody to be in that situation.

[@Sarah.Riedel]

Always, always always have a will or advanced directive in place.

[@MegaKopfschmerzen]

Same thing happened in Italy where PM Berlusconi also meddled.

[@domdubz7037]

Now I understand what that South Park episode was about.

[@sweettea3879]

She was in a. vegetable state for 18 years???

[@dragondancer1814]

QUALITY of life is what truly matters, not quantity!

[@g.rossini1723]

6:17 time to get the hose

[@jennyscranton8433]

IF SOMEONE KEPT ME ALIVE LIKE THIS ID BE PISSED THE HELL OFF 💯

[@christinapartain3398]

Idk, but what I do know is that I wouldn't want my son's spouse calling the shots. If we're willing as a mother and father to care for our disabled son, then that should be the end of it. Fair or not, parents do what they feel is best. There is hardly ever a solid right or wrong answer.

[@HappyMuffinsSister]

As a parent I completely understand your position. But what if it’s not up to the spouse to decide and instead there was a legal document signed by your child stating that they do not wish to live under such circumstances?

[@Beelzebubby91]

Moral of the story: write a will

[@rabbitholegirl1]

If my loved one was in that state I'm sure they wouldn't want to live like that. It's not living.

[@kyleeconrad]

I have very clear memories of this when I was in high school. I never saw any pics of her pre heart attack tho. I cant believe how dropdead gorgeous she was. Her spirit remained beautiful throughout- I do remember that. I'm still extremely torn about this. I'm very adamant that if it were me, I do not want to be such a heavy burden on my family and they are not to prolong the inevitable...BUT!!...if it were one of my children or even all of them, I'm sorry, but I refuse to sit by and let them go.

[@kyleeconrad]

@Elizabeth Frantes You're obviously not a parent. I wouldn't let me child suffer, but even the thought of them gone before me brings me to tears. I wish I could explain. I'm not trying to be cruel. If I thought there was even a glimmer of hope that my sweet child might be in there, as her parents did I d have to try to hold onto them too. I dont blame them for just wanting to have as much time possible with their daughter. Goodbye is permanent.

[@kimmieyc6476]

But you would put down a pet if it was like this tho. I told my mother already if I'm in a vegetative state to let me die. I refuse to be a financial burden to my family and to have my mother's life dedicated to caring for my 20 year old self like I'm a bloody infant.

[@elisejackson2854]

@@kimmieyc6476 same. 23 and if that happens i want to be put down.

[@emily0071000]

You said it yourself that you wouldn’t want to be kept alive like that - a patient’s wishes & wellbeing should always be put before their family’s feelings no matter how hard it is

[@kyleeconrad]

@Elizabeth Frantes Who's being a Karen now?!? Something happens to you when you have children and I dont expect you to understand. I wouldn't let my child suffer, nor would I expect "the village" to front the bill.

[@furiscafynn6275]

The thing is with that family.... You say you don't care, you would have looked after her and I, along with many others, believe that. They would have looked after her for the rest of their lives, but the major problem is trying to work out what she wanted in the end. Not even considering that seems, to me, rather... cruel?

[@torinjones3221]

Kinda disgusting they just kept putting in a feeding tube then taking it out and a few days later putting it back in and repeating etc

[@jjjbgg5893]

One thing is not dying.. other thing is living

[@dooterscoots2901]

This is so disturbing to me. I would despise to be kept in a state like that just terrify's me.

[@sachindaftari]

Her life her right.

[@leahgracefecteau]

Your right it’s hard but even if she did not want to be kept living they should still Respect her like everyone should be

[@rachelciel3330]

I don't have any experience with this case's situation nor I have any family on life support, and God I pray that it would never happen to my family or to anyone. But as a daughter who had lost her father from prostate cancer. I know when to let go. When my father had his surgery, I was all calm and pulled my young only-got-into-highschool little sister all around the fairly new hospital and joke around with her, I made sure she won't pile up her stress inside like she always did and distract her from the problem. When the surgery was done after hours and hours of waiting and I couldn't find my mom nor brother in the waiting room, grief and horror settled in and when I then met my father survive the surgery, tears just broke out and I let it all out along with my little sister. When my father was recovering, he had a hole on his lower stomach area to help his excretion, I went into a lot of quiet thoughts of "will he live the rest of his life like that?" And "Wouldn't that be a hassle?" His surgery wound would not heal, he was losing his appetite, he became more and more detached with life. It hurts. I cried a lot when no one was looking. Something was wrong with him, he got a complication. He would not recover. He was getting worse, I just knew it. It hurt me to see him like that. To see my hero, the best man in my life, to see my dad suffer like that. To see my mom crying every day, desperately holding on, taking care of my father. Praying for his recovery. My sister became gloomy and my brother matured rapidly because of the situation. And me, the middle child, his pride, often left to my own mind, thinking, "If he's gone. Then, it's better for him and everyone. If he recovers, it would be even better." There's no in-between of that. I knew he would die. I reached that frame of mind long before thing got complicated and I fully accepted it weeks before his death. His bowel popped out and we rushed him to the hospital where those pricks refuse to give a room simply out of inconvenience or shit and finally gave a room when he'd spent the entire night and half morning in the Emergency hall. (There are *many* empty rooms. The morning they finally gave my father a room, it was a locked empty room with no roommate.) out of all children, I'm the one told to stay with my mom to look after my father. At night my mom went to sleep and I looked after my father in case he's moving about and worsened his condition. A lot of things happened. Before the break of dawn, he gotten weaker. My brother and lil sis were called and they rushed to the hospital, not long, my uncle and aunts also came with my grandma. That morning, I knew he would leave. And he indeed left. But there was a strange relief in my chest alongside the crushing grief and the feeling of lost. He's gone, then, he's gone. I have a lot of regret such as not letting him have his way more when he was sick- like letting him drink more of that yogurt drinks that he came to like when every other food is so tasteless, like not letting him turn over because I was paranoid of his stitch, and I truly regret not saying how much I love him in the last moment he was still conscious of his surrounding. But I let him go. Through tears and regret, I rejoice that he had finally been freed. I was such a papa's little girl. I adore him with all my heart, I used to think life is inconceivable without him. When I lost my grandpa just a few months before my pa go, I thought to myself "If papa is gone, I would be crushed. Shattered." And I never doubted that line of thinking. But when he was gone, the one who shed the least tears in that hospital room was unexpectedly my cousin-who was not close to him- and me. Love does not mean that you HAVE to have them by your side. Love means you want the best for them, even if that means you have to let them go. That's the essence of love. *It's not about what you can take, it's about what you can give. If you have to give them up, then do it. That is love.*

[@lily-joyheal9954]

It's so disgusting how hard they fought to keep that poor woman in that condition.

[@dooterscoots2901]

I shouldn't have made a sandwich before this. I'm disgusted at the idea of being in-between death and life.

[@QuillStroke]

I've told my mother that if I am ever in this state to let me die. I don't want to be either a burden to my loved ones or trapped in my own body with no way to interact with the people and world around me.

[@darkdistiller]

Advance directives are not something people, especially young adults want to think of, but as soon as you turn 18, you need to make sure you have one. It's not just for cases like these. In some cases if a person dies, it can be decided who you want to take over any decision making. For transgendered people, this can be particularly important as there have been cases that decisions end up in the hands of family members who may not have been accepting or had not been in their life for some time. Because of this, at their funeral and on any grave markers they end up with their dead name and mis-gendered. And obviously, it can keep other cases like Terri's from repeating since you are leaving explicit instructions on what you want your care to be like, and who you want to make decisions for any care or legal matter that hadn't been decided on.

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

Didn't South Park do a parody of this?

[@sherri1699]

There still has to be a better way than starving and dehydrating them to death.

[@WashashoreProd]

There is, but it wouldn't have been allowed at the time, and I don't think it's allowed even now. Where euthanasia is allowed, it's only with the full consent of the patient. Unless it was done off the books by her caregivers, there was no way it would have happened, and those caregivers would be in serious trouble if they got caught.

[@TomikaKelly]

She couldn't feel pain so it's not as bad as it seems.

[@landontaylor4485]

I took care of her at the Palms... It was a very sad situation

[@tarantulady]

If I get ruined like that, please don’t let my family keep me as a bonsai plant.