Why Retro Consoles Need A Scaler

[@brkbtjunkie]

The hdr injection on retrotink 5x / 4k that emulates the phosphorous glow of a crt is magical.

[@alessandrob.g.4524]

How do I set this option in the 5X?

[@TheOnlyPedroGameplays]

@@alessandrob.g.4524I second this

[@marmadukesandwich]

@@alessandrob.g.4524 First, make sure you've got the latest firmware. In the HDMI submenu, go to 'Inject HDR' and pick the option that's best for your TV. Mine is HDR10. Immediately the whites will be brighter. Then go back to main menu and go to post-proc and choose the scanline and grille options that look best for you. You will have to adjust the gamma and color boost until it looks right. The combination of the grille and and the brightness of the HDR will make it look closer to a CRT, in particular you will notice brighter colored pixels appear to bloom around the grille. If you have black frame insertion on your TV (it's something like 'motion improvement' on my TV), I'd recommend using this in addition to HDR for smoother motion. This may require adjusting the gamma and color some more. If you're interested in emulating a CRT further, for interlaced games you can set the de-interlace to bob and the scanlines to 'crt simulate'. Using this is in HDR with a grille overlay and black frame insertion and you're very close to the look of a CRT for interlaced games - of all the de-interlacing options, this is my favourite as there are absolutely no artefacts or lost information, as the TV is basically displaying an interlaced image, complete with the distinctive jitter.

[@BLOODY__FATALITY]

For the longest time I didn't have any idea upscalers were a thing and just plugged directly into the TV. My Wii looked perfectly fine, but other older consoles like especially my N64 and for some reason the WiiU in Wii mode looked absolutely terrible. These days I use a retrotink 5x. Wayyyyyy better.

[@lucasrem]

60 or 50 Hz on the CRT ?

[@luismagallanes2371]

This video makes a great intro to scalers for anyone new to the scene. It provides just the right amount of content without getting too overwhelming for newbies. And also shows scalers from different price points. And also why you'd want to avoid any cheap option. Highly recommend for anyone that is planning to hook up any retro console to their flat screens.

[@Botone1010]

I found crt tv around the corner from my house. A landlord had stuff on the curb. She was so nice she gave me the remote. Ps2 is connected. I felt like a kid.

[@coinops]

Retro consoles don't need a scaler, they need a CRT 😍 I'm glad you mentioned this in the first minutes 👍

[@GuyManley]

I still have that same Olivia TV. It was my first HD set. 1366x768 native, 720p, 1080p would down scale. It still works, has a VGA input and had a Dreamcast married to it for years. It sucks by todays standards. I would never use for anything more than troubleshooting now but I can't throw it out because it still works. LOL

[@5MadMovieMakers]

Thank you for the explanations!

[@MythReindeer]

I’m not a retro gamer (I guess I was a then-current gamer when NES and SNES first came out, and never went further), but for no particular reason I watched this video. It’s great! Your presentation style is very pleasant, and as a guy who knows nothing this video seems like a great introduction to the topic. Thanks for a good time!

[@RetroRGB]

Thanks so much!

[@alchemusxgaming]

Excellent, excellent video Bob! Definitively the best introduction video for those who aren't familiarized with upscalers. I personally have been using an OSSC for over 3 years now, and I'm still very happy with it. Especially after making the v1.06 mod on it. Thanks for all you do on the retro video gaming community!

[@RetroRGB]

Thanks! And yeah, all these years later, the OSSC is still awesome. We’re lucky Markus continues to support it with free updates!

[@cookieskoon2028]

Bless you for this. Sadly for space reasons I had to ditch my old CRT. I am currently without a TV entirely, first world poverty go brr, but when I finally do get one again it will likely be a modern small lightweight flat. So one of these gizmos will be fantastic for my old consoles.

[@wettuga2762]

Awesome informative video. I personally started by buying a few good/big CRT monitors, firstly because I like lightgun games, and secondly because they're cheap if you know where/what to look for. That allows me to gradually save up to eventually buy an upscaler, and currently I've set my target at the Retrotink 5X to use with composite and RGB SCART inputs. I've also got one of those clonky SCART to HDMi chinese adapters, it was quickly evident that I would only use it for testing purposes and nothing else 🙂

[@TwistedSoul2002]

Check out the Sinden Lightgun. It works perfectly on a modern tv…

[@TheMikeyb86]

Love the brief, yet entirely relevant description of options. Not sure I would have added anything else and said anything less. Everything you said I was like yep. Having seen the thumbnail, I thought ok I hope he at least mentions CRTs as an option and BAM first thing you dive into is CRT. Love it. Well done, Bob. You know your stuff and I trust your work 100%.

[@RetroRGB]

Thanks so much!

[@JelloFluoride]

I'm always impressed by how good you are at this.

[@vipprimo]

I want to thank you. If you can see, I retro stream on one of the crappy hardwares and even ElGato. I was searching for the right tool and every review I saw was absolute garbage. AI has taken over and it has no idea. Yours was on point, thorough, and got me the answers I need. I hope the RT4K does the trick because I have old footage on Beta cassettes that I used to film and VHS too. Now I may spend more, but I’m finally getting what I wanted. Fist bump and if you’re ever in my area I’ll buy you a beer! 😎🍷

[@RetroRGB]

Thanks very much!

[@Wilberon_McBane]

Yep, that's absolutely spot on Bob 👍 As always you've pitched it perfectly, not ever talking down to people and always being super respectful in the way you explain stuff. This will be my new "goto" video to share with any mates or whatever who are just getting into retro gaming and want an absolute beginner, no BS explanation of how/why/what to get them started. Superb dude 👊😎

[@RetroRGB]

Thank so much for the kind words. I really do try my best to be welcoming. LOL, unless we're talking about Pound cables :)

[@drfunkenstein2k]

Nice and thorough Bob! Great video. I can't wait for the retrotink4k!

[@patriksretrotech]

Awesome video!! It's great that you didn't go into all technical details and kept it short and concise! Well done! I'll make sure to promote it instead of trying to explain this myself in a poor way.😀👍🙏

[@SkyScourgeGod]

I've watched so many videos from you and a handful of other youtubers that talk about scalers, lag and video game signals, but even so I am always grateful to see a new one even if the content is only slightly more informative than the last. For me, it's mostly just entertaining to watch these days since I would consider myself fairly seasoned in dealing with scalers, but at the end of the day it's because of videos like this that my gaming setup is as robust and well-built as it currently is at all. Go back 6 or 7 years however and that was certainly not the case for me lol. I've gone through many different pieces of hardware since then: an OSSC feeding into a Crestron scaler to make the OSSC compatible with my displays at the time, a standalone GBS-Control and, currently the king of my setup, a RetroTink5X. I'm THINKING about taking the leap into a RetroTink4K, but the asking price might be too much for now. Not that that's a bad thing of course, high priced premium electronics have existed since the dawn of time and not everyone is going to want that for different reasons. Laserdisc anyone? lol More importantly than my own current experiences with your content, these newer video's help newcomers get a firmer understanding as to what exactly they are jumping into when it comes to clean and lag-free retro gaming. There are too many who fall victim to the typical "wow, my experience really sucks" type of reaction when they hook up all their equipment the wrong way or just have bad equipment in general. The best part? It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg! I love how you emphasize that every time you talk about getting a good gaming experience. A RetroTink Mini can be just as effective at delivering a great experience as an OSSC Pro depending on what the person wants even if the price difference between the two is fairly vast. Getting a good gaming setup on your modern flat panel doesn't have to cost your soul, you just have to be smart about what you're shopping for based on your wants and needs. Thanks again for being THE defacto on this stuff. ;)

[@RetroRGB]

Thanks so much for the kind words. And I had scaler experts like you in mind when I made this - I made it for newcomers, but also wanted a video experts could pass to their friends, so they didn't have to suffer through explaining it all :)

[@mostlyharmless0544]

I love all your content. This kind of stuff cements me as a Patreon to be quite honest.

[@RetroRGB]

Thank you so much!

[@dbnpoldermans4120]

Thanks for all your work giving us the best gaming experience!

[@vasilis23456]

I don't know if it would help with latency, but most TVs have deinterlacing settings that you can definitely change. It is nice to have a scaler that does everything for you though.

[@RetroRGB]

Good question! In the VERY rare case that there’s a specific “game deinterlace”, it’ll reduce latency via HDMI ports. For some strange reason, the analog ports are still higher…even though $1 analog to digital converter chips exist.

[@Psythik]

Such as? I've owned several TVs over the past 35 years and I've *never* seen one that lets you change deinterlacing settings.

[@PapiFed]

Nice one Bob, excellent summary of the problems and current solutions !

[@WIImotionmasher]

I'm glad I watched this, I wanted a scaler for my PS2 and was going to get the Retrotink 2X. But you point out the 2X can't actually handle the PS2's resolutions.

[@RetroRGB]

Thanks! Well, the 2X can’t handle 480p, but it definitely can work with the PS2. I’m so sorry to be that KZbinr that says “just watch this other video…”, but I really do go into detail in this one about the 2X + PS2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZXQgXmIiM5mo6Msi=ORBbRaNk-jqmAwR9

[@kendric_BUF]

So grateful you put this out, I have an old Vizio with component inputs and been wondering if they're worth try to make work

[@wadeepperson6906]

I definitely need to do this. The only console I have any digital converter on is the GameCubes digital port. The Wii I just got the Nintendo component cables for definitely think I should be getting one of these for it.

[@djm9937]

I always appreciate your knowledge and honesty on all matters. Whilst I could never justify spending large amounts of money on theses things, for me it was essential to have the component signals go through an analogue to digital converter to eliminate the lag. Thanks Bob :)

[@76_SPZL]

Absolutely love my Retrotink 2x-pro.

[@moggydaghlegend]

Fantastic video! I'm planning on getting the 4k retrotink when it releases, I can't wait!

[@hyakin7818]

if you're living in ntsc regions you can apply this in pal regions however that's another case, most flat pannels (i had) didn't really have this problem of flicker and wrong deinterlacing, and well inputlag was more noticeable but not really an issue it felt like 5ms on hdmi and 7-8ms over analog signals, maybe it's because i was using scart rgb though because only my nes had similar problems

[@RetroRGB]

Respectfully, until you've taken the time to make the same measurements I have, you shouldn't throw around general advice like that. I have tons of friends in PAL regions and all the exact same things apply on most TV's. Maybe you just got lucky?

[@hyakin7818]

@@RetroRGB yeah maybe the only ones i had that were really bad were samsungs but i'm still sticking to crts because of natural sprite softing

[@Jbluez1]

So, Eternal Champions for Sega CD took heavy advantage of dithering to create art that otherwise wasn’t possible due to system limitations. What is the best way to play that on HDMI?

[@RetroRGB]

Great question! The MiSTer FPGA project via its adaptive composite blending would probably be the best. A RetroTINK 5x or 4K with CRT filters is next-best. Nothing can truly recreate the “composite via crt” look though. But both of those methods are excellent.

[@Linkziz]

I feel like there is plenty of content on the video side of things, but next to nothing about the audio side. I have Sony ES series audio equipment. I would like to see testing beyond what I can do with old consoles hooked up to recievers. All I have done is just test the difference video quality when hooked directly to the tv vs through the receiver first. My experience is that A/V recievers usually process 240p better.

[@RetroRGB]

Connecting a console to a receivers analog video inputs is the same or worse than connecting directly to a TV's analog video inputs. Analog AUDIO inputs are totally fine though. I did a video highlighting some cool analog stuff here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHqchoigp9WBjNU

[@jengelenm]

Thanks Bob. As a retro gaming + retro classic car enthousiast, i love the car comparison. In fact, i’m hoping for an emulation solution for my 1992 Lebaron for Power and Injection Module PCB’s, to keep these 90s cars alive! :)

[@Filsantos86]

I've saw a lot of videos like this, but still never found a solution for my problem: is there any scale that can seamless handle 240p to 480i transitions during gameplay? Like Resident Evil for the N64. I always need to remove the Expansion Pak to play the game properly. Also, a device that can handle 480i to 480p transitions, as well as 1080i resolutions. That is needed to play Gran Turismo 4 on either Progressive Scan or HD.

[@RetroRGB]

Yes, the RT5x, OSSC Pro and RT4K all have zero dropouts during resolution changes.

[@rittypoo]

the entire community appreciates you

[@RetroRGB]

Thank you for the kind words :)

[@101fng]

I get the classic car, PVM, etc analogy, but I’d like to know what, technically, justifies the need for the 4k’s Cyclone V? What is the 4K doing that a cheaper FPGA can’t handle?

[@RetroRGB]

This video highlights all that in detail: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2TIoWmprJWWbrs

[@Lunchpacked180]

I'm just wondering about the OSSC not having rca/svideo inputs, it works just fine with a rca/svideo to scart adapter? I don't notice any degradation or added lag etc, but that's just my suggestive interpretation.. Is there something to be said for *not* using a rca/svideo to scart adapter with the OSSC? Or is it just that scart is so scarce in the US, so it wasn't considered or known about?

[@RetroRGB]

Good question!: There are no chips on the OSSC to decode composite or S-Video. You could use a Koryuu Transcoder to convert composite and S-Video to a signal the OSSC is compatible with, but simply using a pin connector won't work. Here's a link to information on the Koryuu, but if you need composite and S-Video support, you might want to consider just getting a RetroTINK: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGTceoqag5Wagac / www.retrorgb.com/retrotink.html

[@OCDRex11]

Great video, thanks! I am in the middle of building some systems and debating what scaler to buy. I want the Ferrari, could buy it, but they are never in stock, ahem, RetroTink 4K. I almost built a GBSC and still might as I like to make things. Kicking myself for tossing my CRT's year ago. Ironically, I have 7 HD TV's in my house but I can't play any systems on them and smile, yet.

[@RetroRGB]

Thank you! The RT4K was just released and Mike's ramping up production. The second run should be ready in a few weeks and a third, much larger batch is coming about a month after that. So don't worry, you'll get it soon. Making a GBS-C to hold you off is an excellent idea though. After the RT4K arrives, it can become a "tool in your toolbox", as it still has a ton of uses. Good luck with your new setup!

[@emmettturner9452]

My old Sony KDL-52XBR2/3 LCD flat panel from 2006 supports 240p and even displays it in the info panel though it’s clearly doing it in a way that sucks. Also, it has to be S-Video or better or else the info panel will show 480i and it will deinterlace non-interlaced 240p.

[@orektez]

my grandpa's old tube tv still works so i don't need a scaler yet. that thing's already outlasted like 4 of my hdtv's though might outlast me.

[@chrisb1236]

Hey Bob, has there been any comparison in regards to 'modern' resolution TV scaling vs a scaler? I'm curious since if you only had the Retrotink 2x Pro, and didn't think you were going to realize the additional features of the 5x, would TVs handle the upscaling of 480p to 1080p just as fast as the 5x? Or do modern TVs no longer like a non-HD signal?

[@RetroRGB]

Great question. MOST flat-panel's don't add much lag (1 or 2ms) for lower resolutions, but I've seen a few that add a ton of lag. The only way to know for sure is test. As for scaling quality, that varies. In my experience, most "PC Monitors" are terrible at scaling 480p, but many TV's do it just fine. Getting an RT5x (or higher) eliminates all that though, as long as you have the budget.

[@segaprophet]

Like was mentioned in the video, something like a kaico adapter is good enough for 6th gen consoles and up. For older consoles, I am usually playing them emulated from a mini PC hooked up to HDTV, so the signal is clean upscaled HDMI to begin with. So I guess I'm not the market for these scalers.

[@RetroRGB]

Kaico is a clone company. That’s why they weren’t mentioned in this video.

[@legokingcandy]

Id like to buy a scaler, but the retro tink is a bit too far out of my budget. I will hopefully buy one someday.

[@CollinKenny]

Yay, classic Bob vid! Thanks Bob!

[@flavioalves8536]

Great video Bob! Thanks a Lot!

[@lsdowdle]

So, did you see the MARS FPGA in action at that gaming show in Florida... or whatever it was?

[@mvpheat]

I know your not a big fan of them but I'm really happy with the mclassic 4kGamerPro combo. Got both of them used and it didn't cost a bunch of money either. My oldest system is an original xbox and I find it really easy to work with my other modded consoles (ps3,WiiU,360). I don't think I will ever upgrade unless something is dramatically better in terms of just image quality (and stays in the price range of under $150). For anything older I prefer pc shaders.

[@RetroRGB]

I actually like both, when used in the correct situation. And the 4kGPro's marketing was fair. What I got mad about, was mCable implying you can just plug this into a Wii or Gamecube and it'll transform it to HD: You first need an HDMI adapter and next need to send it the correct resolution for it to make a difference. And the mCable DOES look awesome when use right. But it's not the "magic solution" they marketed - and paid KZbinrs to market it as. So, sounds like you're using them correctly. And I love that you got them both at a lower price! :)

[@mvpheat]

@@RetroRGB Your Awesome Bob !!

[@LemonRush7777]

How does playing old games on MiSTER compares to using an old console with those solutions?

[@RetroRGB]

In some ways equal to the RT5x, in other ways better. The craziest solution (yes, I know this is ridiculous) is to set MiSTer to "direct video" mode, then connect the HDMI-out to the RetroTINK 4K's HDMI-in. You get pixel-perfect, digital to digital scaling. No original carts though.

[@VinnyCThatWhoIBe]

Pour one out for the Framemeister

[@RetroRGB]

Was so good for its time. And if you already own one, it’s still a good solution. But I definitely wouldn’t recommend someone buying a used one on eBay, over any of the other solutions.

[@litjellyfish]

Question regarding the Retrothink 5x can you output a 4K output signal from a Mac or Win machine to it and then let it add this CRT / mask filters on top of the signal? Or will it only be able to like take a 320x224 signals and add scanline / CRT emulator filter on it that then is upscaled and send to a 4K flat panel? Reason is that I would love to do pixel art on a Normal screen (say one 27” 4K monitor) and then from photoshop also drag a duplicate of the ongoing picture to another 4K screen but on this screen I would have loved to be able to see it with CRT emulation to get a good preview on how it would look on a real CRT

[@RetroRGB]

The highest resolution the RT5x can accept is 720p via the component video inputs. And the RT4K is makes out at 1080p60 for the HDMI input. You should be able to set up either as a second display on your PC, then just drag it over. A cheap HDMI to Component converter will work with the RT5x: retrorgb.link/cheapdac

[@DaxterKing]

I have an old 1080p TV that still has the color cord inputs, would I need one of these for a PS2?

[@RetroRGB]

That’s what this video is about

[@Monkeygameing69]

The new intro just slaps

[@Skitskl33]

Sony did infact push the PS2 later in it's life in conjunction with early flat panels like their EDTV and 720p tvs. It's why a lot of later first party ps2 games pushed more for including progressive scan modes. They even had models with PS2 consoles built into them, like the Sony Bravia KDL-22PX300, but that was only available in certain regions I believe. Now whether those tvs processed the console's signal correctly is a different story. I do remember going to a Walmart in the mid 2000s and seeing a EDTV playing Ratchet and Clank UYA in 480p and thinking it was amazing visually.

[@JACKHARRINGTON]

I have a Bravia from 2008. It says in the manual that it supports 480i and game consoles, but I have noticed some issues with SMW on the Wii. I'm going to look into it more.

[@PixelPoke]

Is there a good Splitter solution to work in conjunction with these? Im lazy and dont wana swap cables all the time but i dont wana loose quality for comfort.

[@RetroRGB]

Yup, check these out: www.retrorgb.com/scartswitches.html

[@gaminglife2017]

I own a CRT TV. A 29" Sony trinitron. In such cases, is it worth buying a good scaler such as the OSSC, or staying with my CRT is the way to go?

[@RetroRGB]

This is just my opinion - A 29” Trinitron is a beautiful CRT. Unless you were really trying to save space, I’d just use that.

[@psycoteck0808]

But do you need a scaler for a retro clone console with built in HDMI

[@RetroRGB]

Great question! Unfortunately, almost every clone console with an HDMI output I've tested uses the SAME "TV signal" scaling chips I demo'd as what not to use in this video. Maybe there's some out there that aren't terrible, but I haven't found one yet.

[@Skyrus456]

How do projectors compare to modern flat screens TVs when it comes to latency?

[@RetroRGB]

If you get one that's designed for gaming like the Benq I had, it's not that bad at all. My Life In Gaming did a few videos on theirs. This is the one I owned and really liked: amzn.to/420YK4l

[@Skyrus456]

@@RetroRGB Thanks for replying, I am currently using a Epson that came with the house and the latency doesn't seem terrible on the eyes. Though I haven't done much retro console gaming other than Wii, GC, PS2, and N64. Even then, I just use the OEM composite cables (or whatever the console comes with from the second hand seller on eBay) for video output with a 4-way composite adapter. I haven't tracked down the component cables since they are expensive for the system I own and I mainly do most of my retro gaming via emulation (which bypass most the display problems with older hardware as it goes straight through modern video output). If I ever do look into perfecting my retro console video output, at least I know where to look.

[@RetroRGB]

Honestly, I bet emulation run at the native resolution of that projector looks awesome :) You have plenty of options if you ever want to upgrade, but that sounds like a good solution for now.

[@Vennnaya]

4:00 are these in the wrong order? For the first one, you said "See how it flickers?" and its not flickering. Then when you change over, you say "See how it no longer flickers during movement?" but it IS flickering there!

[@RetroRGB]

They're in the correct order, but I forgot to put a disclaimer: If you're not watching in 4K, the lines will blend together and the comparison is pointless. I'm really sorry about that - I'm usually good about putting an on-screen note, but I totally forgot that time ;/

[@jimcopeland4011]

Thinking about buying one of the BAD solutions until I can save for the retrotink 5x... Unless you can suggest a similarly priced alternative?

[@RetroRGB]

You can make a GBS-C for less than $40. But that’s kinda useless to you if you’re using composite or S-Video (mean that in a nice way). By far the best cheap solution is ANY CRT, but if you can’t find out, just buy the CHEAPEST adapter you can find. That way when you eventually upgrade, you wouldn’t have wasted much on the temporary solution. …but by far the most important part of a “bad” solution is that you know it’s bad. If you know that going into the purchase, you’ll know it’s not the games that’s acting up. So good call researching before buying.

[@johnav8rflys]

Do any of these options allow you to use the gun for duck hunt?

[@RetroRGB]

Light guns will only work with CRT's or emulation. Sorry.

[@johnav8rflys]

Thanks for the info. How does it work with emulation and on what emulators does it work? I have a Retron 5, is there a way to get it to work on that? @@RetroRGB

[@Khalfan_Kapablanca]

frim where can get the rransparency analisis to check my signal ?

[@RetroRGB]

The 240p test suite. It’s free software available for many platforms.

[@xShibux]

Do i need to plug the Retrotink directly to my TV or i can use my AV Receiver? I have all my gear and speakers connected to the Receiver.. Thanks!

[@RetroRGB]

It SHOULD work, however you’ll want to make sure your AV receiver doesn’t add any lag. Look to see if it has a “game Mode”. Most receivers are essentially HDMI switches and don’t add lag…but check for a game mode anyway :)

[@xShibux]

@@RetroRGB thanks for the reply. Was just looking into the setup settings of my receiver. Seems like i can set the Video settings of each HDMI Input separately. There is a Game option but i can also set it to bypass as well. Guess bypass won't process the video input at all and i should be good to go with that setting?

[@RetroRGB]

Yes, exactly - "Bypass" shouldn't affect the signal at all. Good find!!

[@BasementBrothers]

I think the reason for the bad lag with the analog inputs is that the built-in analog-to-digital converter sucks. 😂

[@dadfrags]

Do any of these support RCA composite to HDMI? Trying to use the N64 on TV. Thanks for the info.

[@RetroRGB]

Yes, the RetroTINK products as well as the RAD2x. I show this in the video and provide links to both.

[@dadfrags]

@@RetroRGB Thank you mate, just watched a few more of your videos and realized the green is shared. LIKE DEPLOYED!

[@RetroRGB]

Thanks!

[@kidpesto]

How can I test my cheap amazon Wii2hdmi adapter to see how it performs? Is it likely sufficient cuz wii supports 480?

[@RetroRGB]

If you see lots of on-screen interference, or if it's a "scales to 1080p" model, you might want to upgrade to the one linked here. But if it's working fine at the Wii's original resolutions, you probably got lucky and have a good one...so no need to change. Hope that helps!

[@kidpesto]

Thank you! :) It does say FullHD 1080p on it@@RetroRGB Would the interference be super noticeable? I'm not very sensitive to that sort of thing

[@8BitMOSplaya]

Hello. Have you gotten hands on with the PixelFX Morph 4K yet? Know anyone who has posted a review yet?

[@RetroRGB]

I don’t have one and as far as I know, no one’s posted any kind of review yet, just random footage.

[@SirRob24]

I've been meaning to setup a mini retro setup in our family room. I have an N64, PS2, Dreamcast, Wii, and a VCR. What would be the most streamlined option for getting this setup? I was thinking of getting an RCA bang box to plug all the consoles into and then plug into the VCR. Then maybe doing the GBS-Control mod (save myself a few bucks compared to buying the RetroTINK 2X. Would this be a viable setup with decent results, do you reckon? Or is there another path that would make more sense?

[@RetroRGB]

Good plan. A few things though - The PS2, Wii and DC should go through the GBS-C. You can connect the VCR separately, either direct into the TV, or using the “not scam, but not for video games” composite adapter I showed. The N64 is the only tricky one. You could RGB mod it and get HD Retrovision cables to run it through the GBS-C. Or get a RAD2x for it. …or, you could get a RetroTINK 5x and run everything through that. It would be a better option and MIGHT end up being the same total cost, if you have to send the N64 out to be modded.

[@SirRob24]

@@RetroRGB Thanks for the response! I parted out everything for the GBS-C mod and it would have cost me over $150 Canadian so I decided against that. For the PS2 and Wii I picked up one of those PS2HDMI and Wii2HDMI dongles for like $10 each. Tested both and the performance is pretty solid and it looks pretty decent on my TV. As for the DC and N64, I was looking at the Retroscaler 2X. I hear it's just a clone of the RetroTink2x and I know buying clones is a pretty poopy thing to do, especially considering how great of a company RetroTink is, but I can get a Retroscaler 2x for $60 cad. I know it could be a gamble though because "you get what you pay for" but maybe it'll be good enough to my eyes.

[@whosonedphone]

You are doing God's good work!

[@ernestomaserati9417]

What do you recommend to use for digitizing VHS tapes? Does the RetroTINK-4K has any advantages for that purpose compared to the cheaper alternatives?

[@RetroRGB]

I’m working on a video explaining exactly that. It’s actually way more complicated than you’d think, but I’m ALMOST at an easy solution. Do you need something right now, or could you wait a few weeks until the video is done?

[@ernestomaserati9417]

@@RetroRGB That is very nice and sounds great! It is not urgent at all. I wanted to convert old VHS tapes with family content and perhaps also Hi8 and digital tapes to a modern video format, but with high quality and with good upscaling so that it makes the best possible of the low resolution. I guess the new 4K device makes sense anyway for me, but it would be great if it can be used to convert old VHS tapes. I have already bought two VHS recorders for that purpose, one of them S-VHS.

[@Majestros]

Does the Retrotink have advanced masks like CRT-Royale or just scanlines?

[@RetroRGB]

The 5x and 4K have the best CRT emulation masks ever to be usable with original hardware. Nothing else comes close. The 2X Pro just has basic scanlines though.

[@KinkKush]

i just use the original elgato hd capture with the AV component adapter it comes with. seems like it doesnt add any lag, anybody know if it does or doesnt?

[@RetroRGB]

Yeah, EposVox has a few videos and a whole database about capture card lag. It’s not terrible, but not the best solution. If it’s working for you, maybe stick with it? I’d search through Epos’ videos to double check though.

[@KinkKush]

​@@RetroRGB thx brah i took a quick skim, honestly i think it works better than anybody gives it credit for, but ill know for sure when i compare it to an enthusiast scaler (5x or 4k, undecided at the moment)

[@gamerstimes127]

The Retrotink 4K looks amazing, love the 5X but I want to play more modern consoles on 4K

[@100Bucks]

4K Gamer Pro works. I got it attached on a PC because I don't believe in full on 4k rendering. Why stress the GPU when I could just use the 4k Gamer Pro and play everything in 1366x768 to upscale to 4k HDR 60fps. 4k rendering is dumb, upscaling is way better.

[@tristanheron4144]

I only use a PS2 with GSM selector. I understand that this removes interpolation, and therefore reduces some lag. Do I still need an upscaler in this case?

[@RetroRGB]

That’s a great setup. As long as you can force 480p, you wouldn’t need a scaler…as long as your display handles 480p well. Many TV’s do a great job with 480p, but many PC monitors don’t. You might benefit from a cheap component to HDMI converter though, just for lag reasons. …but all that said, if you’re still outputting 480i, you’d definitely need a scaler.

[@tristanheron4144]

@@RetroRGB Great. Thanks for the quick reply. I appreciate your insight.

[@thegreator]

Is there any difference by using a normal crt vs flat crt? Does ANY crts are good for retro gaming?

[@RetroRGB]

Great question...I should make a video on that! The short answer: Flat-glass CRT's may have issues with light gun games, but otherwise are awesome. Most "HD CRT's" are great for Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox GC, Wii and up, but NOT before that, as they process 240p wrong just like flat-panels. Some HD CRT's have a bit of lag, but it's balanced by the lack of motion blur, so I wouldn't worry about that.

[@mrtonytechnics]

Wish there was something with RF connection like for an atari or colecovision...unless there's something out there?

[@RetroRGB]

Yup - Any VCR, even one that doesn’t play tapes anymore. No sarcasm, I’m serious: Use the VCR’s RF input to tune the channel and connect the composite output to a scaler. Zero lag added and you can often find old VCR’s free.

[@mrtonytechnics]

Thank you so much! Keep up the great job

[@ella0w0]

I don't get how people can use crt tvs without instantly getting a headache from that horrible high pitched noise :,)

[@fabian8959]

It’s called mute

[@slimjim2321]

Probably because they can't hear it. Most people lose the ability to hear that high of a frequency when they get older. Hitting "mute" doesn't do anything..that sound isnt coming from the speakers. I have sensitive hearing despite being in my 30s and can't stand being in the same room as a powered on CRT without earplugs.

[@gamecubeplayer]

if you use a vga crt monitor with a retrotink 2x pro then you can't hear it because it's 31khz also "your" hearing is likely good

[@natecw4164]

Scalers are much more affordable than they used to be. Even $60 can get you good results nowadays.

[@sb6482]

Bob nailed it inside a minute. GET A CRT

[@MrMikey_1981]

Your an analogue video guru… which one would you recommend for laserdisc composite video? Cost effective without going overboard trying to buy a lumagen or something like that Thanks Bob or anybody else who can help 🙏

[@RetroRGB]

Thank you! I'd say a RetroTINK 5x. The "CRT Simulate" deinterlacing mode, mixed with the CRT mask emulation is awesome. And even if you're not into those filters, the motion adaptive deinterlacing is awesome. ...and the RT4K is all of that and more, but MUCH more expensive. If you have the budget, consider it...but if not, the RT5x is awesome and all you'd need. Here's an intro video, with more to come: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2TIoWmprJWWbrs

[@MrMikey_1981]

@@RetroRGB thank you Bob! If I go with the 5x do I need to firmware update it to be able to do this?

[@RetroRGB]

It should come with the latest firmware...but Mike's always adding crazy new options. Luckily, it's super easy - Check the bottom of this page for updating via both Windows and Mac: www.retrorgb.com/retrotink.html

[@MrMikey_1981]

@@RetroRGB and this is why your the man! Thank you Bob 🙏

[@brianharrison06]

I am using a ultra hdmi, carby, rad2x for n64 cube and snes. However I really want a simple solution for ps2 ( I actually still have my original component cables) This is all hooked up on a LGCX oled. Would retrotink5x pro be the way to go on ps2?

[@RetroRGB]

Yeah, the RT5x’s deinterlacing is excellent for the PS2. If you’re on a budget, you could use a GBS-C…but the RT5x is a big step up.

[@brianharrison06]

@@RetroRGB Thank You! Know what I’m getting now 👍🏻

[@inarieon8531]

Just to be sure, what is the best choice for a wii running with component cables?

[@RetroRGB]

The best choice (as long as you have good component cables like these: retrorgb.link/hdrwii) is to use a scaler like the OSSC, RetroTINK 5x, or higher. If you just need to connect your Wii to HDMI, this is your best bet: retrorgb.link/wii2hdmi ...and if you need component AND want to connect to a flat panel, get good component cables and either the scalers I mentioned above, or just a cheap analog to digital converter like the Newcare here: retrorgb.link/cheapdac I know this stuff can be complicated, but hopefully I was able to point you in the right direction!

[@nattila7713]

best? retrotink4k.

[@inarieon8531]

@@RetroRGBawesome reply cheers! I think i’ll try building the GBControl as its much cheaper and i only need component to HDMI

[@RetroRGB]

The GBS-Control is a GREAT option. I just try not to assume people are comfortable modding, which is why it's not usually my first choice. You'll be happy with it though...just get a decent VGA to HDMI converter for the GBS-C's output.

[@LangeManGlenn]

I'd love the retrotink 4k, but goddamn that is a pricepoint.

[@lobsterwhisperer7932]

My 2020 Samsung TV does have RGB inputs, but also has settings whereby you can upscale for older devices in the settings, though haven't tried this with PS2 yet.

[@TheStagAndArrow]

Great video

[@spoonybard13]

Fwiw, lots of modern TVs have started getting rid of analog inputs, so with them a scaler or converter of some type is practically necessary to play older video games.

[@sgdude1337]

Technically you could use a composite to hdmi adapter that doesn’t scale. It’ll be horrible but will work on modern tvs

[@RetroRGB]

@sgdude1337 Those aren't a think. All composite to HDMI adapters are like the one I showed in this video.

[@sgdude1337]

@@RetroRGB I know they’re horrible but I thought they’d simply digitize the 15khz signal which your tv is still incorrectly interpreting as 480i. If you fed one of these devices hypothetically to a hdmi to component transcoder and then to a retrotink 2x pro wouldn’t you get a correct image? I thought the converters are a scam because they don’t help your end result but is it the converter itself changing it to 480i not the tv?

[@RetroRGB]

I've never seen a composite to HDMI converter that simply passes through the image and digitizes it without scaling. Out of all the devices I've ever tested, every one ONLY scales it, as well as treats it like 480i. Also, even if this theoretical device existed, you'd still be relying on your TV's HDMI input interpreting 240p correctly, which most do not; I test this regularly with my Time Sleuth. I'm not trying to pick on you, but I think you're misunderstanding what some of those composite to HDMI converters do.

[@sgdude1337]

@@RetroRGB thanks for explaining. I’ve never used one so I just assumed they passed on 240p to your tv which the tv then handles incorrectly so the end result was the same. What about converting component to hdmi without scaling? If the tv you have happens to accept it, which I think some models do, it’ll technically work without a “scaler” even though it’ll look incorrect right (as the tv is going to interpret this as 480i). I was just thinking that it is possible to avoid using an external scaler on a tv for 240p, but that it would still be horrible. I have a tink 5x for what it’s worth

[@EposVox]

Aight connecting my PS5 to a RF only CRT thanks!

[@bmccarty2012]

01:05 - thanks for the tips! I was only seeing high-priced CRTs on eBay, but I checked a local electronics recycling event this morning in the hope of finding any CRT at all. The only one they had turned out to be a 20" Sony Trinitron KV-20S40! The worker said they aren't supposed to to let people take the electronics, but he let me have it for a $15 "donation." I gave him an extra $5 for the effort. The TV works perfectly, and is just what I needed to test the Intellivision I just finished refurbishing. I bought it new in 1981, and it probably hasn't run in close to 40 years.

[@Mahem3000]

So I’m not a worse Mario Tennis player because I’m older, it’s just I don’t have a scaler! This explains everything

[@_BELMONT_]

Fantastic video Bob! This is a very important video for newcomers and veterans alike! I cannot wait to pick up a Tink4K when the work season starts up again next year!

[@alextirrellRI]

The GBS-Control was a lifesaver at work this weekend. I needed to run a conductor camera to two screens, but the DLSR the lighting tech brought was way too laggy over its HDMI output. Ran an analog security camera into the GBS-C, converted to HDMI and then sent to my splitters and it worked out great! It was only black & white as I guess the GBS-C is component only, but that was totally fine in this case.

[@larssawatzki1538]

"DSLR"

[@devonwilliams5738]

Bought a Retrotink 5X as a birthday present to myself, I wonder how I ever lived without it.

[@david-spliso1928]

The Retrotink 4K is $750. Ouch.

[@unkono]

It's a fairly new Device.

[@Frank-x1g]

Man, I am thinking of getting one for my birthday early next year. Do you use it on PS2 or OG Xbox?

[@devonwilliams5738]

@@Frank-x1g Both.

[@Rumblefan]

I bought the retrotink 2x pro. It may not be as configurable as the 5x or support resolutions higher than 480i, but for $139 it was a great investment imo. My Sony 4k OLED tv only has hdmi and a video jack for a composite adapter, so for retro consoles, my only option was composite, and the composite video on this tv has a ton of input lag unless you put it in game mode, which causes a jumpy image for some reason. So with the 2x pro, being able to have a decent composite output as well as the superior s video and component is a game changer. I never bothered with a scaler before this tv because my old 1080p Samsung not only had better composite video with no noticeable lag, but it had component as well.

[@Reaperman4711]

I've contemplated using one of those cheapie vga-to-hdmi scalers for DC capture (on a vga splitter w/ crt), thinking "it can't be worse than what youtube's about to do"--and maybe it's still worth a try, but jeez, that argument is obliterated after seeing the scam-cable comparison. it absolutely could be worse than youtube 🤣

[@Teste-gp7bm]

I actually tested a Gamecube by RGB a while ago and was very impressed with the signal processing. And this was a basic LG 22 inch TV, though it does have inputs for everything, I have never seen anything like it. Dreamcast on composite looked horrible, so there's also that. That said, such good signal processing for a 480i signal made me really look into buying a scaler. After watching your videos, will probably get a GBS-C, as I want proper 480i deinterlacing for PS2.

[@lucasrem]

50 or 60 hz ?

[@insurrectionindustries1706]

Great wrap up of the last few years of evolution in this field. It’s Amazing how different it is than a few years ago

[@mrmaestrom]

I’m a big fan of Rad2x adapters. I have a few mates who like playing their old N64 or PS1 and that’s it. If someone is only interested in one console then I think it’s the way to go. Cheap and super simple to use.

[@shadowshatto]

Can't seem to buy one from the site because it keeps demanding I choose a color but it doesn't show any options

[@mrmaestrom]

Looks like they are out of stock atm. Sign up to their newsletter and you'll get an email when a new batch is coming in. Seems to be only happen a few times a year.

[@kitfagan2027]

Not sure about other models but I don't recommend them for PAL PS2s at the very least. While the colour was better than the random amazon adapter I had lying around, it introduced a lot of flicker to text. OPL in particular was so nauseating to use that I've bit the bullet and getting a Retro GEM installed. NTSC games faired a bit better but not to an acceptable degree given the price.

[@Jassu323]

Wonderful video, Bob! I really appreciate all the effort you put into them. I got into retro gaming only within the last couple of years, so your content has been immensely helpful. FWIW, I agree with you about TVs still sucking for gaming. I still think they're not great even today for modern gaming. Most of them have awful color settings in "game" mode, where everything looks dull with poor contrast. I usually have to redo all the settings to get the picture quality to look good even with a PS5 or Switch, never mind all the problems that come with retro gaming. Speaking of, I use an RT5X Pro, but Sony TVs annoyingly don't support *any* 1440p resolutions. It's fine for 5th gen and earlier consoles, but GC/PS2/Xbox don't look nearly as sharp as they could. I was considering an LG OLED instead (which do support 1440p), but they have awful SDR support-the max brightness is very low and the colors always look a bit washed out. That means it sucks for gaming on a Switch (and, to be honest, most PS5 games have bad HDR implementation anyway). I'm hoping someday gamers can have good TVs lol.

[@PikangsFutaba]

I currently switched from a RetroTink2X into a GBS-Control and ESPECIALLY for my N64 it's a godsend as games like Resident Evil 2 has little to no issues with the resolution stuff, but still I want eventually to upgrade to a RetroTink5X or heck... maybe the 4K... time will tell, but in the meantime I can use the GBS-Control along with my RetroTink-SCART (the later I can only use it on my SNES and Sega Genesis... without doing modding of course... which reminds me that I also have to upgrade those cables in the future).

[@crestofhonor2349]

Great video on the subject. CRT screen emulation is the only way I tend to play games at least through an emulator however my Wii goes on my actual CRT screen

[@matthewgagnon9426]

I figured this out ages ago, but at the time I had gotten most of the way through Contra on a more modern display before that input lag REALLY just got to be unbearable and was absolutely impossible.

[@kristinaF54]

Took me seven years to find a 32 inch CRT TV to play my games on. The speaker is knackered but I plug headphones into the audio out cable from the console itself bypassing the tv and it works a treat.

[@PunchKickBlog]

I imported a framemeister for 400 bucks years ago and it is glorious!