Return of Most Hated Strategy in StarCraft 2 History...

StarCraft 2 Tournament 2023 ESL SC2 Pro Tour Cup - Dark breaks out the slippery Zerg strategies vs Showtime in this dramatic Zerg vs Protoss series!
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StarCraft 2 Legacy of the Void Tournament 2023 - ESL SC2 Pro Tour Open Cup 2023 KR 206 - Dark (Zerg) vs Showtime (Protoss) - Best of 3
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Starcraft 2 is a Science Fiction Real Time Strategy & Tactics game by Blizzard Entertainment. Download and play free at www.starcraft2...
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Winterstarcraft, Starcraft 2 2023, SC2 2023
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[@30anvz28]

So you’re an excellent commentator. The right voice. The right tempo and knowledge and presentation. The Zerg branding and hat tangent. Was the first time I’ve just busted out laughing at the ability of you to take a tangent… yet relevant side step. And I loved it.

[@noneofyourbusiness4133]

I prefer lowko and find the tangents and cadence annoying tbh

[@RyuFelinshire]

While the swarm hosts were very effective, this series has some of the most effective corrosive biles I've seen. They killed so many stalkers, and even a good amount of immortals and archons in game 1.

[@jdkrot]

I also noticed that. I wonder if that’s partially because of the swarm hosts though - you have to distract from the main fight to not take so much damage from them on the second flank.

[@natecw4164]

Exactly 💯 The swarm hosts push you back into a corner so much that those biles are just gonna raaaaain. The secondary nyduses slightly behind the push was HUGE as well, that really makes it ten times harder to push the Zerg back home.

[@bLedq]

I think thats becuase you cant micro against biles when theres so much happening on the map. Dark was so fkn opppresive.

[@BagelByteGaming]

I really like anti-spoiler bonus games. It means I don’t have the play the personal mini-game of ‘Don’t Look at the Red Bar’ the whole time.

[@kathorsees]

Agreed!) Been a while since the last bonus game on my memory, so it's nice that he threw one in now to keep us guessing.

[@genehenson8851]

So true!

[@JollyGreenWizard]

Of course, commenting about it below the video kinda gives away the game for others lol

[@Sebastian-fh8xm]

@@JollyGreenWizard yeah well maybe dont read the comments if you dont wanna get spoilered lol?

[@LucianDevine]

Sir Richard, the first of his name, on a mission from God, getting the boys back together!

[@Sun_and_Moon]

Xel Naga: “mission success, time to be crystal ghosts and enjoy pvz for eternity” Terran: “Vroom vroom cyclone go brrrrrrr”

[@Cellus5000]

Winter, I dont think I can understate how much I appreciate your commentary. You'll get my like more days than not, keep up the good work.

[@Gredddfe]

43:12 That ruptor shot on the drones hit me in my zerg parts.

[@Leeto16]

I vote for top hats on Overlords, so they can truly lord over the battle field.

[@ironmonkey1512]

I saw the swarm host on the thumbnail and said to myself 'I hope its Dark'

[@KingoftheSage]

This was amazing commentary. I had to pause a couple of times because I was having genuinely hardy laughs. Also pointed out a few things I didn't notice and had to rewind, such as the corrosives taking out an observer.

[@timparks9833]

I love how Dark is a Bronze League Hero at heart, but with the IQ of a super computer that allows him to play at top levels with strategies that would fail for anyone else.

[@davidnihil_]

@WinterStarcraft It was this game - LSC3 - Grp B Final Match - Stephano vs Petraeus - Game 2

[@jonsolo32]

17:00 I laugh every time I see that drawing. 😂😂😂😂

[@teeee8534]

response from showtime to swarm host is pretty odd, ive seen to other video that harstem build void ray to counter swarm host, indeed in my own ladder game, if i see swarm host i will build void ray too, because most likely swarm host tech end up going to lurker, also void ray is good against at, but the way how showtime handle just massive gateway and robo unit does not work against swarm host at all

[@St3a1thsniper32]

I haven’t played SC in forever and I was only a bronze league player but that’s mainly due to my inability to multitask. I understand countering and whatnot though. Unless some more high level players have some obvious reason why having a void ray or two to help clear the SH, I don’t see why you wouldn’t make them. The only AA Zerg has is the ravager until the swap to lurkers give you hydras to work with. By then, the voids have at least helped zone out the SH and nydus enough to pay for them.

[@SD-jf7nb]

As far as I can recall, Swarms & Vipers were both introduced in hots, everybody played swarms, ignored Vipers. Continuously spawning Swarms made steady Zerg pushes feasible, making life hell on the lower rungs, but Vipers were more instrumental in countering Stalker\Collosus.

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

Partly because Vipers were Hive tech, but nowhere near as impactful as Defilers were in Broodwar.

[@verdtre4573]

Nice to see Dark playing some campaign!

[@ruamzuzla5085]

@9:15 dark is up 80 supply. Is it just that much easier to max out on swarm Hosts or could Dark just have run Showtime over with any other Army at that point? I really like to see the Swarm Host but it feels so underwhelming even if it does work. But then again wouldn't basically any other Army do the same thing better at that point anyway?

[@pondracek]

Swarm hosts cost 3 supply, so yes. But, also, he's building roaches with them. And he could have been up 80 supply on roaches alone even sooner.

[@MrGeorgeFlorcus]

Swarm Hosts cost 100 minerals and 75 gas, and take up 3 supply; compare this to, say, Lurkers, which are also 3 supply, but cost 150/150; almost double the total resources. So yes, Swarm Hosts do bloat the supply count heavily, both because they are supply-inefficient (which is to say, their value relative to army size is low), and because they can only attack every 43 seconds, and thus they don't participate as actively as any other unit type normally would. Their main strength is to either surprise an enemy that doesn't have the right composition to shut them down efficiently, crack open turtling defensive strategies, or to punish slow-moving, ground based armies.

[@kathorsees]

Honestly, I've always thought that theme-wise Z should have more of this swarming bio-mass than either P or T. I understand that it's too late to change this for SCII, but in the future, I'd love to play a version of SC balanced around Z having like 300 max supply, T maxing out at 250 and P at 200. It'd allow T and P units to be and feel even more powerful and impactful, while Z would be able to field a truly massive army of low-tier swarmers.

[@nightmareTomek]

He had about 15-20 Swarmhosts? So that would mean 15-20 higher supply than he would have had with normal units. Swarmhosts, honestly, still a stupid unit. They caused him to win the games he used them, didn't they? And it looked rather easy to execute, just as they do in my games.

[@nightmareTomek]

@@kathorsees Or the units could be balanced in cost and efficiency around having a smaller supply cost, like it was done in Broodwar, every race could still have a maximum of 200 supply and Zerg would feel swarmier. Though I've read an idea once on the Starcraft forums that 5 queens should merge into one which causes the max supply to raise to 250. Funny idea actually.

[@jeronimosuarez7957]

2:08 BEST idea this year so far! Bright future Winter! 😂😂

[@jonsolo32]

Man I love watching Dark.

[@sonkien3]

I mean winter is the fun successor to day9

[@AndresParraguirre]

Say hello if you like winter streams 🎉

[@slavengineering8344]

Crickets

[@jdmichal]

hello if you like winter streams 🎉

[@jonsolo32]

Hello!

[@DrumBum4ever]

Like and subscribe if you like winter streams… long live Winter!

[@PapaZannie]

Hello if you like winter streams 🎉

[@BrokePencil]

I remember the old hots games lasting forever. I think the best change blizzard made to SC2 was doubling the starting workers. Also, I don't even play anymore, but I'd buy a protoss hat for my overlords along with a giant foam #1 tentacle. Get a bunch of runescape party hats. Imagine tiny carrier hats on the overlords, like they're in disguise. Go meta and give your changelings zergling hats.

[@florianhoppe4159]

I think that Legendary Swarm Host Match was casted back then by the Late Total Biscuit. Great Game.

[@Jasonsoloka2024]

I really enjoyed this series. Thanks WinterStarcraft

[@yourlordandsaviorcucklord0995]

Def gonna impliment the swarm host harass and use the nidus more, the ampunt of control he had the whole 1st game was amazing

[@NealHoltschulte]

Warning: results shown are not standard. Attempts by non-Dark individuals may result in nausea, insomnia, and loss of MMR. If losses persist for more than 4 games, please consult winterstarcrafts low apm challenge.

[@yourlordandsaviorcucklord0995]

@@NealHoltschulte ended up switching to muta/ling/bane bc plats keep denying me 💀

[@sethboyd2217]

Trick is to only get like 8 swarm host all attack upgrades constantly launch all the guys into the main or second from the same spot, forget the nydus just walk the swarm host to a strange spot and burrow. after sending in the locust keep a nydus like 150 feet back in the strangest place possible. Note: you can drop swarm host out of nydus far back click move command with shift down then click spawn locust with shift and then move back to nydus with shift still held. They will walk up drop locust then walk themselves back to safety. Keep them on a hotkey maybe like super far down like 0. ps. keep an observer and two hydras with the swarm host. @@yourlordandsaviorcucklord0995

[@nathaniellake4222]

My two favorite players have always been showtime and zest. I don't know why because they play nothing like one another but sometimes after watching the MADNESS that was zest you needed a pallet cleanser like showtime to snap back to reality.

[@ZenLee]

man, my vocabulary is expanding in amazing ways! apocryphal, of doubtful authenticity although widely being circulated as true

[@ZenLee]

George Washington and the Cherry Tree: This famous story claims that as a child, George Washington chopped down his father's cherry tree. When confronted, he bravely said, "I cannot tell a lie." However, this story is considered apocryphal, likely invented by biographer Parson Weems to illustrate Washington's honesty.

[@ShazbotDesign]

I want "Convention" to be the official word for a large number of Swarm Hosts. Like a flock of Seagulls. A convention of swarm hosts.

[@matthewkalamane6607]

Overlords need top hats. Absolutely top hats.

[@Clazzette]

Aight we need a compilation of all these sc2 hearthstone cards fr

[@JofreSteele]

Overlord hats is such a brilliant idea.

[@user-ke2uf2sn5s]

always love darks style. great cast winter!

[@markjohnson1734]

Glad I rediscovered you Winter, I never have the balls to play this game in ranked, but I LOVE WATCHING YOU COMMENT ON PRO PLAY LETS GOOO!!!

[@mammaspojke9813]

Love the casts, appreciated the anti spoiler match a lot, I love sc2 more than any game in the world but I would love to see some broodwar games sprinkled in.😊

[@kw8295]

Dark: The Locust waves will continue until morale improves.

[@WolfGangDealers]

Man, it feels so good to wake up and get these castings in the morning once more.

[@ENZ2103]

Oh man... that first game was so nasty. I felt anxious just watching. Swarm hosts are such a frustrating unit to deal with.

[@jonnozomboid2649]

Adebisi hats FTW. Glory to Ricky and his kingdom!!!

[@kungpochopedtuna]

Absolutely love a cheeky cheesey dark game

[@Ryanosaurr]

Winter: The Most Hated Strategy in StarCraft 2 History... Me: Teach me.

[@marionicolais3024]

I am co-counsel in the biggest case in the country (SCOTUS just accepted cert) ... and I'm just thinking about how crazy Dark using swarm host is.

[@JDivinorumVideo]

Man, I really miss infested Terrans. That microbial shroud is okay against air, but it should stop ranged attacks too. I liked Infested Terrans for triggering siege tanks and harassment.

[@youtheneyes]

I could have sworn I was just watching a PvT cast of yours uploaded today... Am I going crazy?

[@youtheneyes]

SKILLous vs someone... I just woke up and put the vid on while I paid bills and shid

[@Ky_yo]

With the overlord hats

[@artcrafter9941]

My swarmy zerg heart just really likes Swarmhosts

[@SonoranSage]

Thanks for making everyday a little bit better

[@coololi07]

god that archon juggling at 9:05 was fucking disgusting might as well give them blink

[@omnimoeish]

lol the efficiency of 13 units Dark made in game 1. Only like 4 of which were ever killed in a 20 minute rampage. 20:20. "This strategy that's kind of mediocre because it's relatively easily countered"... I don't think Showtime would agree lol. I kept wanting to TwitchChat GM screaming make like 4 void rays.

[@zergling6802]

Not allowing us to put hats on overlords is a missed opportunity to monetize Serral's Fedora

[@yazzzlet3549]

It will never cease to amaze me how pro protoss players think building mass stalkers will win them any games

[@thomasmitchell7815]

Without Stats around the whole fucking race plays this way now. They're going to cheese drop a game or two and then try to come back on a blink stalker timing 3 games in a row. If it doesn't work build more stalkers and try again. Be Thankful were not watching them ghetto blink 5 stalkers for 5 minutes and then GG

[@DeviantFox]

god I fucking love swarm hosts

[@RupertBruce]

Outstanding aggressive play from the Zerg

[@yunkeacme]

Damm. As a master protoss, the 1st game was painful to watch.. what a siege..

[@MiamPachonUy]

Sorry, I'm no pro but do the stats on those cards at the beginning actually work? Like how Showtime's shields and batteries regenerate 50% faster? Asking a legit question here.

[@zeroosanity]

No, it's just a fun way Winter introduces the players. Basically a "what if these players were characters in a card game", with the abilities usually referencing some preferences and quirks of their playstyles

[@clintmiller1122]

Hey winter, update, my daughter is 4 months old now and we still watch you together.

[@Devillionaire]

Why no colossus from Showtime to purge the swarm host / lurker mess? Seems like Dark considers Showtime one of those low-level foreigners that “can’t compete” and just dumps on him with fun cheese. Poor Protoss need a champion so badly to show ‘em how it’s done.

[@TruNameless42]

That Dark meme! 😂😂😂

[@AndresSalas123]

Love your channel. I see it every day. Thanks for casting.

[@tertozer3543]

Why are Swarmhosts not broken again?🤷🏻‍♂️

[@justinvasquez8398]

Fancy top hats for the ovies

[@kamilduczmal2772]

Overlord with a tiny fedora, mhmmmmmmm

[@godmaxer]

Locusts dps is high but their lives mercifully short lmao. Winter is a comedian

[@edwardkrupa1414]

Thanks for showing the great games :)

[@jamesrockybullin5250]

Richard the Zerg

[@xTKsauce]

not showing the ressources lost after the huge fight at 38:51 was criminal and you will be fined

[@CarpathianWasteGroup]

wow login music?

[@Zarven1]

Are you going to do more beyond all reason? I've been enjoying it a lot recently.

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

Man they ruined the Swarm Host so hard. It used to be such a cool concept, a Zerg siege tank. Now they're just another harasser unit, an expensive high micro one. I'd still rather just use Overlords and drop Zerglings. Granted the old Swarm Host was pretty over powered. To keep it feeling the same they just needed to lower Locust attack, and keep them as path blocking and siege tank foddder and endless waves of attrition.

[@gregartman9827]

Hats 4 overlords!!! No hats no peace!!!

[@Blindsighter787]

I want my overlord hat!

[@happynesty]

Where a these replays available?

[@Zulu4impi]

I want "Blink Immortals"....😅😮😅

[@cathulionetharn5139]

Thank You Om nom nom

[@timlane6742]

So did they remove sentries from the game? Seeing the archon immortal army get kited is painful to watch.

[@RealFableFox]

"Anti Spoiler bonus game". You know how low certain race winning game get views when winter started having to do this.

[@obviouslyohno]

Made my day better

[@screamingliner]

I see Dark, I click like.

[@WolfgangGaming-xq5rm]

They should increase the length of the swarm host things, and decrease their damage proportionally. It just sucks to have them 1 shot your CC, Nexus etc. before you have an opportunity to respond. And even if you do respond in time their DPS makes them barely worth killing.

[@PluvioZA]

Of all the comments, this is certainly one of them.

[@winsause555]

Never felt bad for a protoss player before

[@CaptRazer]

So what IS the counter to swarm host spam?

[@bust3dstr8]

High Templar and good sim city expo buildings. Place warp gates right against sides of Nexus to limit surface area.

[@GameFuMaster]

are swarm hosts going to make a comeback?

[@georgeromaniajr.2680]

Anti spoiler bonus game is a great idea.

[@drorbedrack8720]

you just spoiled it...

[@scottevensen2615]

Overlords with hats! Make it so 👉

[@SSYoung125]

I have never seen a protoss win on Oceanborn. Am I wrong?

[@tabula_rosa]

why are swarm hosts still in the game? they just seem like a more broken version of the brood lord

[@kamikeserpentail3778]

Why are Broodlords still in the game you mean? Honestly, Heart of the Swarm introduced some interesting ideas. The Swarm Host worked pretty differently, more like a Zerg Siege Tank. And instead of changing it the right way, Blizzard redesigned it to step on the toes of Broodlords. And in Legacy of the Void they would continue to add units that overlapped with other units, like the Liberator and Ravager.

[@sonkien3]

Zergling is hard counter to DT

[@johnnyq2486]

Nerf... uh... Swarmhost..?..

[@Neon_White]

-_- #1 Dark :D

[@alexCh-ln2gw]

stalkers vs mutas suffers the same problems as banes vs marines. stalkers should counter mutas since they shoot up and cost less gas. but somehow, mutas can just kill stalkers in pitched battle. banes should counter marines but these days, they are such bad units, they don't .

[@Jasonsoloka2024]

Legit, upgraded banelings should be as fast as speedlings. Tell me I'm wrong (you can't, because I am right)

[@taglagable]

Compared to the strategies that I’ve seen in the past, the reason is: top terrans just micro better. They target banelings with tanks while also microing their marines off creep.

[@kainakrit9311]

I've always thought stalkers were meant to be a stopgap solution to mutas. Their dps vs light units are beyond shit and you can't focus fire with them in large groups either cause of overkill.

[@SD-jf7nb]

Muta glave bounces rapidly tear Protoss shields down. Flying Roaches.

[@sert27de]

dark

[@MultiBraner]

795

[@unclenchasbestos]

Algoooooooooo

[@BlueRoug]

8 more until 1234 likes milestone

[@Chris-cv1yh]

Sc2 would make so much money if the made dlc hats for all the units

[@rafa3lico]

i was here

[@bananafrenzyTV]

i stopped playing SC2 because of swarmhosts

[@KingOfNebbishes]

Funny, you say most hated, but there's not a Terran in sight.

[@cabobs2000]

nobody liked them even the zergs

[@BatkoNashBandera774]

y u do dis

[@Herezjush]

does not work like bar