Return of the King (Film) | KnockBack: The Retro and Nostalgia Podcast Episode 177

Peter Jackson's epic film rendition of JRR Tolkein's equally-epic fantasy book series wraps up with 2003's Return of the King, a flick many (including us) consider to be the strongest of the three. As Middle-earth seeks balance and peace, the forces of evil remain very much in play. While Frodo and Sam make a beeline for Mount Doom, the Fellowship and their forces fight for survival. With amazing performances, a wonderful score, solid CG, and an amazing story (of course!), we're sad to see Tolkein's Trilogy off. But fear not, for all hasn't yet turned to vain ambition.
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#LordoftheRings #KnockBack #ReturnoftheKing

[@Wormage101]

The Rohirrim charge is still one of the best scenes in movie history.

[@arjungrewal3293]

DEATH

[@bretttheillustrator]

I love Knockback day.

[@barrysells2473]

I remember seeing ROTK in theaters. Wasn’t opening day but it was opening week, and that place was packed and vibing. Haven’t had a movie experience like that since.

[@spacebase00]

Totally agree. I'd also add that the closest too that cinematic catharsis I've ever experienced was at the end of Mad Max: Fury Road. People were silent and in awe the entire time. People were buzzing on the way out. It was ELECTRIC!

[@MrJuke79]

That Akira mug!!! Fantastic!

[@bigolpancake9136]

You guys are fantastic - thanks for putting this gem out there.

[@Jacknife_]

My goodness y'all made my mind flash the "you bow to no one" scene and it sent a chill through my body and my eyes watered up. So yes that scene definitely got me when I watched it. Love these podcasts guys!!!!

[@JandocTV]

Great discussion. Haven’t watched the movies in a long time so it’s nice to hear about em again. Something of note, Colin and Dagan talk about the one Ring shows the true colors of whoever it latches onto. From what I remember when I read the books; it’s not that the ring find those who are inherently evil, it mainly influences the mind. The books talk of the Hobbits being jolly folk and very care free, so one could consider the closest to Innocence. Compared to humans who are a mix bag. If the ring is around someone long enough, it warps the mind and makes them evil hence why in the end Frodo tried to keep it.

[@ericksanchez2496]

Rewatched because of this!

[@boots8562]

I'm rewatching the trilogy over the weekend. Will start the second movie shortly

[@stewartwest9652]

Quality discussion as usual lads

[@the_grimby1722]

My assumption with the boat ending is that the Elves are leaving to begin the reign of men over middle earth (timing is a little odd considering the orcs could theoretically win the war). They say they are sailing to Valinor or whatever, which i am assuming is a real place where they can exist without interfering in the affairs of men. I think that Frodo says that the shire was saved "but not for him"...so i am assuming he just feels like he can no longer live a Hobbit life, and that he is holding back Sam from starting a life of his own where he can truly be free of the burden that Frodo is under himself. Also, Gandalf summons Frodo over, so I am assuming that there must have been a conversation--or Gandalf just knew that Frodo would be coming. They were there to send off Gandalf and Bilbo (who is a badass--after watching The Hobbit I have come to this conclusion--the ring barely effects him!), but I believe Gandalf and Frodo knew ahead of time that he would be leaving. Most of my information is coming from watching the movies a bunch and not from the lore...

[@123Piano321]

When Tolkien says he's anti-allegory, I don't think he means that his experiences and beliefs have no impact on the story or that the story elements don't reflect his beliefs; I think what he meant was that he did not like the idea of an artist using his work as a means of preaching a message. He believed in the aesthetic beauty of literature and wanted his books to be appreciated for the world and story he crafted. He did approve of what he called "applicability," which means that he hoped that any reader at any point in time (e.g. not tied specifically to WWI or WWII) could find something in his story which applied to his/her life. So while he pulled a lot from his experiences in war and in life generally, he didn't want the reader to be focused on that aspect of it. He, like so many of us, probably just didn't like the heavy-handed preachiness found in a lot of writing. This is a quote which sums up his thoughts "I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." Loved this episode; you guys are always very thoughtful, but I felt that it came through in this episode especially. Amazing work.

[@nat040496]

The Eagles wouldn’t have solved the whole issue. They were not at Gandalf’s beck and call. They sometimes came to his aid, but they weren’t under his command. Mordor also had plenty of air defenses, including the Nazgul. Some also argue that Mount Doom doesnt have an open top to just drop things in

[@grashoprsmith]

"Dorf"

[@jacobsecor5015]

Pretty sure they did re-up on the CG when they did the 4k remaster last fall?

[@nat040496]

The “staff battle axe” thing is an interesting complaint. The weapons in LotR are all incredibly realistic aside from ones like the Witch King’s flail. Gimli’s axe, while unrealistic since it uses two blades (double-bladed axes were never really used in medieval warfare), is realistically sized and i like it.

[@Sylvestror]

And the sun rises

[@tazmanceltic]

I remember firing up the fellowship dvd and in the menu showing a hand picking up the ring in the water and thinking why was that scene not in the fellowship or the two towers and mybe it was a deleted take and finally realising that it was Déagol in the third movie. That was a fucking awesome moment for me knowing that I'd been seeing a scene from the third movie the whole time I'd been watching that dvd repeatedly. P.s if anyone wants amazing lore explanation head over to the nerd of the rings channel

[@nat040496]

I’m surprised they both don’t know this, considering it’s depicted in the movies, but orcs are basically elves that have been brought back to life and twisted through necromancy. At least that’s what i was told by someone who read the books and other stuff like the Silmarillion

[@TundraBoy69]

Tolkien never gave a true origin to the Orcs but presented multiple in-universe theories. His son Christopher did note that over time his father may have been unhappy with the idea that the Orcs were curropted Elves, one of Tolkiens last explanations on the matter suggests they actually came from corrupted men, but this never made it into the Silmarillion, published after his death. Other theories Tolkien gave include Orcs being fallen maiar and Morgoth using sorcery to breed Orcs from stone and mud. So there isn't any definitive answer on the origin of Orcs.

[@andrewmaplethorpe1125]

Loved how you picked up that Aragorn seemed out of character beheading the Mouth of Sauron…. In the book he does not do this…. And it’s one of the changed Jackson made that I did not like.

[@DoggyP00]

It wasn't so much that Tolkein was anti allegory and more that he was REAAAAALLLY pushing that lord of the rings was based on a mysterious red book he found in the ruins of ancient England that told of its unique mythology that he wished existed.

[@StuartDesign]

“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence...." J.R.R. Tolkien He seems to dislike allegory.

[@DoggyP00]

@@StuartDesign Makes sense to me

[@deathproof8732]

Fucking nerds I've always had a thing for Catelyn Blanchett. My God especially in the Rings movies and Thor Ragnarok with the black hair. Jeeeeesus.