Return to Dark Tower Review - Dredging up the Past

#boardgames #returntodarktower #review This video is brought to you by the power of our Patreon: / nopunincluded
Find us here:
Website - nopunincluded.com
Facebook - / nopunincluded
Twitter - Efka - / nopunincluded Elaine - / nixedpun
Instagram - / nopunincluded
BGG Review list - boardgamegeek....

[@RestorationGames]

Thanks for the review. As always, you raise a lot of great points. One of the things that’s undoubtedly a boon to an app-based game is the ability to continually refine and update. Custom win screens is something coming in the next update. And more to come.

[@NoPunIncluded]

Can't wait to see what's in store!

[@freezebanana1865]

Damm At first I start to think about dropping this but after I read your comment I have to seriously reconsider it. The more thing I want is a dialog line in the dungeon that gonna be cool If we got one. it feels out of space when you use advantage point and still have no clue why from lose 15 warriors has become to gaining 2 warriors. If we have a dialog line in the dungeon that gonna help a lot about it.

[@timhorton8085]

Oh god, early access board games. Please no. PLZ gooby, gooby stop.

[@richardclegg8027]

I see yet another board game with the baked in assumption that gravity works. What if in 50 years my non existent grand children want to play it in outer space? When will designers learn.

[@bekkison]

The app is open source, so fans can create a version that can be uploaded to a Dejarik table. Ha!

[@Groegselmaschupp]

no worries mate. there will be artificial gravity ….

[@arthurdent9281]

@@Groegselmaschupp pshhh, probably as a paid expansion

[@yarondavidson6434]

You can easily buy metalic skulls, and put a magnet (or an electromagnet, probably doable in any survivable outer space environment) below the board. Attach velcro to hold the tower and other components (towns, minis) to the board, and you're all set and and free from the tyranny of gravity. You may need to source the metal skulls in advance (not sure if the specific outer space location will have cheap available metal to make ones), but there will be velcro in space (that's what it's for after all), and any space environment that could sustain life support will have what you need to at least create an electromagnet.

[@nicksims2827]

Totally agree. Any gravity based boardgame is an instant nope. I play boardgames to escape gravity, why are we insisting on gravity in our fun too?

[@willboy334]

This game sucked me in. Not only did I get the base game, and expansion, I crafted a perfect sized lazy Susan to spin the tower, bought rechargeable batteries to make sure the tower always stays on, and bought a new tablet to run the app! The most I've ever spent for a game. Well, it was worth it. Everytime I bring this out, it's a hit. My friends keep coming back, wanting to play more, I had to veto against it, because I was playing it too much, and want to rotate playing in my collection. This is another great example of deluxe, the board game, and boy is it so good.

[@petergross7235]

I need to get the lazy susan going at my house too, it would help a ton. Maybe in the next KS campaign they will throw in an "official" lazy susan add-on with the Covenant expansion? Haha

[@TheAmazingYeti]

@@petergross7235 You know.. I have been thinking that myself.. you need a 31.5" diameter lazy susan for the playmat.. and they simply do not make them that size from what I can tell. Some reasonably priced solution on their BackerKit campaign would be amazing.

[@DavidReyes-xm7vd]

I'm glad you mentioned buying a new tablet to run the app. The app based dynamics are one of the main reasons i'm reluctant to jump in to this game, but not exactly for the reasons highlighted previously. the app drives everything in this game, which is problematic if you dont have other app driven games in your game library, Sure, you could use a smartphone, except my wife has bad vision so i'd need a way to blow up the display (buy a tablet or cast to a TV)....but i dont have the setup for either of those in my household at present. So that means i need to shell out to improve my tech setup for just this game, which might be OK if it only set me back 50-100....except the complete setups current campaign is $300, you have to drop $300 (plus whatever you spend on those tech upgrades). it looks like a good time, but since 90% of whats happening is on the app (i have my face in tech all day as it is, so i want that disconnect), it just doesnt justify the cost. I got the Heroquest mythic tier for like 180 and atmostfear for about 120. I just cant jump on unless the price drops down.

[@petergross7235]

@@DavidReyes-xm7vd This is not a cheap game by any stretch of the imagination. Even Covenant is over priced for what it is. Rechargeable batteries, custom lazy susan, new tablet to see and hear better. The quality of life improvements also have to be considered when you buy and play this.

[@DavidReyes-xm7vd]

@@petergross7235 i think the main issue for me is i dont have the nostalgia to justify the pricetag (and neither do the people id play with). I get thats why kickstarters come out for that niche audience, but i 100% know it wouldnt get the playtime in my household to justify the investment. Wish it cost less just to expand the player base

[@rengarcia5189]

I owned the original Dark Tower game back in the 80's. I got it for Christmas, and i absolutely loved it. The tower worked perfectly. Every game was different, it was fun and exciting. When i went off to college, I couldnt take it with me, it was too big. Slowly, over the years, bits of the game began to vanish until only the tower itself was left, and even that disappeared. I could kick myself in my own butt for not properly caring for it.

[@julianbailey2749]

For those that are panicking about the app not being usable in a few years as their phones have moved into becoming a cybernetic skull mod. I'm just going to say that you can easily get a free emulator of the ZX81 which is a computer of the same age as the original Dark Tower game. I think that we will be ok folks.

[@VaultBoy13]

No matter how hard you try, you'll never convince those people that it'll be possible to keep the app running on new hardware/software.

[@Anondod]

The nostalgia we got when I was a kid was way better.

[@Rex1987]

or "nostalgia was better yesterday" as Jesper klein a danish actor once said :)

[@richardryley3660]

On the subject of app games, I will note the reason the original Dark Tower costs so much is because it's really hard to find towers that are still working. Ironically, there is an app that can replace the Tower.

[@kimklisiak6421]

Is this the best game out there? No. Is this overpriced? Maybe? Do I have an absolute blast every time I play? YES! Do my friends ask to play this over and over? YES! Great review video, just subscribed to your channel!

[@Tolinar]

At the end. Your "out of batteries tower" was glowing ominously at you. You were fibbing, the tower ratted you out.

[@classicbnjj]

The tower knows

[@IslanKleinknecht]

The only problem I've had with app-based games is when I realize the game would've been better--and cheaper--if it was just a video game, and the board game components really add nothing because everything is happening on the app. I did enjoy Chronicles of Crime, though, that worked quite solidly.

[@VaultBoy13]

These types of board games add multiple players sitting around a table. - Pass and play with a tablet would result in disengagement during other player's turns. - Cooperative video games are typically built around each player using their own device. So, there's no need to be in the same room together. If we remove the social aspect from board gaming, then 99% of board games (regardless of whether they require an app) would be cheaper as video games. But, that seems a silly reason to justify not creating board games with physical components.

[@IslanKleinknecht]

@@VaultBoy13 the kind of app-based tabletop games I am disparaging are ones where they are just passing a tablet around, or worse: one person "playing" the game on the tablet while the rest get dictated to, maybe move some pieces or draw some cards. I offer Chronicles of Crime as a comparison: at first glance one might think it fits in this category, as the cards might as well be things that you tap on in the app. But I disagree: the bg components definitely add to the shared experience of socially solving crime at the table with your friends.

[@Spoofsc]

Best board game review opening ever.

[@TorIverWilhelmsen]

So metal! (The tower though is so plastic!)

[@petergross7235]

I have never seen a review like this one. But you hit the nail on the head with your last bit. The expansion really is amazing and a must have for the best experience.

[@lostmarble540]

190 dollary-doos? I almost feel like they should've removed the tower entirely and added its role to the app instead

[@bernan1]

This. Other than trying to justify the tower doing something, the something could've easily been done with the app.

[@SILVERF0X13]

Not that it really helps anyone looking at the game now, but it was 125 dollary-doos on initial kickstarter launch. I imagine a lot of people would argue it's still too much at that price, but I've been enjoying it personally and would say I've probably gotten my money's worth. 190 would definitely be too steep for me to buy in now though. Everything the tower does could definitely be transferred to the app, but I feel like the game would lose a lot by doing that. My monkey brain just enjoys dropping little plastic skulls in the obelisk and seeing what happens too much to give that up to the app, lol.

[@johnmable9859]

Dear lord, all sides need to give it a rest with the app debate. "I don't like apps", "I don't like people complaining about apps" Never ending nonsense.

[@drunkzombie8811]

Love this game so much , its alot of fun and the app works very well.

[@Olvenskol]

It's definitely much more fun than I expected it to be.

[@MortlachNL]

Love the @jongetsgames T-shirt!

[@Sammo212]

I love this game so much. One of my favorite board games that I've backed.

[@ChopperLang]

Until Just now, I thought this is what Blood on the Clocktower was. I was like, didn't you just review this? Doh!

[@bekkison]

I definitely agree that the $189 may not be worth it. But I think it’s worth mentioning that the kickstarter was $125 and the COVID shipping/manufacturing crisis drove up the cost for retail.

[@marfdasko]

That won't matter for anyone who is deciding whether they want to buy the game now.

[@bekkison]

@@marfdasko True, but their finalizing and expansion that will be kickstarting soon and the base game will likely be available again. KS prices are usually less than retail, so hopefully it'll be available at the reduce price again :)

[@SILVERF0X13]

@@bekkison I came here too late to be helpful sadly but ya, it was 150 on that 2nd printing. I imagine that's probably the price it'd be if they do another expansion/printing later on too.

[@therupoe]

Jeremy Irons clearly deserves an Oscar for his performance in Eragon!

[@GeorgMierau]

He probably meant "Dungeons & Dragons" (2000) though.

[@therupoe]

@@GeorgMierau yeah, I get it. Just pointing out another corny fantasy movie that he's acted in. (Still bitter about that adaptation)

[@blaked7532]

I got a copy at about 30% off cuz the box had a dinged corner. I've had fun with it.

[@JimPAX70]

Pricey. Yup. But it's the only pure co-op that I've played more than once. It's the only co-op I'll be keeping in my collection. I find the puzzle and teamwork engaging.

[@JimPAX70]

Also, I think you may have misplayed the boss fights. If you take corruption for failing a card, you lose EVERYTHING you can lose AND take the corruption. So if you "ignore" the first two cards, you likely have nothing left with which to face the last three . . .

[@NoPunIncluded]

I think we oversimplified the explanation (our bad), but we've definitely been aware of this rule.

[@TheAmazingYeti]

Really, really great review. As per usual your video is the best review for a particular game on KZbin. You seemingly always knock it out of the park. Even when I disagree with your assessment, I come away knowing if a game is for me or not. The only other thing that I wish you touched upon was the subpar organizer and the fact that the card quality is also lacking in regards to the price. It is almost as if they expect you to use sleeves. This is a game I wanted to love.. and just never did... I do think the fact that the enemies not doing much of anything was a very large part of it. I was going to wait a few more plays to drop in the expansion, however you convinced me to do it sooner than later.

[@SILVERF0X13]

After playing a few times I started to look at enemies a little differently (which is not an excuse for them seeming to just kinda be there). While clearing them yes, is mostly there to prevent them from doing a nebulous 'something' at the end of a month, I realized that the other main purpose of them being there is to give characters who are built for fighting a way to gain resources and a way to more specifically gain spirit without just going and clearing a single skull from a building. At one point in my first game we had so few skulls on the board that it was hard to find something to spend heroic actions on at all. I think alliances will definitely help solve that issue as well given that you can then work towards influencing guilds. I definitely do agree though that enemies not doing anything when you go through them or end a turn on them seems a tad weird.

[@BrocksBasement]

Just snort laughed at the Trolls NFT line. 🤣🤣🤣

[@ichifish]

I don't even buy board games any more. I just come here for the extravaganza of awesome that is an Efka review.

[@LightPink]

I play board games to get away from screens, not to rely on them 🙄

[@tonecastro3202]

My word of the month: Tchotchke. Trying to include it in every convo I have isn't as easy as I had envisaged.

[@SILVERF0X13]

As someone who backed this game on kickstarter when it was first announced, but only got around to playing it way later, this is definitely a fair review. I think if I hadn't paid the kickstarter price I'd have felt similarly about how expensive it is. Once I was finally able to have people around again we busted this out though and all had a blast. One of the first games I've had my friends actively ask me to play again next time. We'll be playing with the expansion for the first time tomorrow, so I look forward to seeing what that is like.

[@thegamesninja3119]

I bought the original Dark Tower for $2 and traded it to a dealer at a convention for $50 credit. I then find the game went to $200.

[@DellamorteDellamore0]

This is some of your best satirical, punchy and funny writing.

[@scottmcarthur207]

The Dark Tower was awesome back in the day. Played it all the time

[@andrzejroykiewicz9552]

Efka: What's the name for that shape? Me[thinking]: And here I thought this was a family show. Efka: Obelisk! Me: Ohhh...

[@grimdarkly]

CAN WE TALK ABOUT HOW AT 6:32 THE SKULL BOUNCED RIGHT INTO THE STRUCTURE???

[@willdwyer6782]

If you're trying to make me buy your book, dream on.

[@farrellmcgeoghan7453]

Love the app disclaimer. I remember when we reviewed Forgotten Waters and stated it was some of the most fun we'd had board gaming ...queue three paragraph comment about how apps are the devil and ruining board games. The best bit was the threat they would leave the board game hobby forever if it became popular to have apps...rather that just l don't know, not play them?! I never really understood who they were aiming it at, considering our obvious opinion on apps in board games.

[@MerrillWhiteKalEl]

Great review! The ending is classic. I love playing this game. All your points are valid, it’s still fun to play.

[@RetroGirlAstrid]

Dear god is it better than the original. I was tiny when the original first came out, and at like... 3 I think.. I was wowed by it as my dad and his friends played it. A few years ago a room mate and I found a copy of the original in their basement and after replacing a battery and doing some minor soldering work, we got the original tower working and gave it a go. For one thing, it was terrible at two players. A lot of what the original tower did was keep track of you basically screwing over your friends with bluffing, etc. If you're playing with two people... it's kind of a moot point. Other times it would give food, or say monsters attacked, and was generally just kind of simple, and not very good, especially at two players. I get why people from back then would look back at it in wonder (especially if they haven't played it since the 80s" but wow do I see why Restoration Games looked at the original and just basically took the themes, characters, map, and tower idea and mostly did their own thing with it. It's one of the best examples of "It did NOT age well" I've ever seen (mechanically... thematically, social portrayals, etc are a whoooole other thing).

[@SILVERF0X13]

Ya I had never played the original, but after playing return and then watching some gameplay of the original I assumed it would be like you mentioned. A standout interesting idea from back in the day that really needed some polish and modern adjustments.

[@mafiacat88]

I don't inherently hate app-based board games, but I will say they do have a bit of a bias to get over for me. It just feels like a lot of the time the app either makes me feel: A) Why is this a board game. It would be so much cheaper/less clunky as a video game B) Why does this have an app. This could be easily solved with a deck of cards and then I wouldn't need to find somewhere to prop up an Ipad/worry about device compatability C) Why is this app so incredibly shit. BUT on the rare occasion where the app is well designed, integral to the game AND doesn't make the board part of the game feel superfluous, it can be pretty great.

[@thegameexplainer3861]

Return to Dark Tower falls into your "rare occasion" category. The game takes place mostly on the table. What the app does couldn't easily be replaced by physical components. The app is well designed and adds to the overall experience. There are a few niggling issues, but nothing major.

[@SILVERF0X13]

@@thegameexplainer3861 I'd agree. I appreciate that the app doesn't bother you during your turn. It only ever requires your attention when you end your turn and drop a skull. I also like the uncertainty it brings to the table about how much time you have to complete things and what types of things might happen.

[@LambertBehnke]

Many thanks for the video, I have only played this once, and I was getting more and more worried as you continued through your review. But then you get to the expansion bit, and suddenly I was very glad that there is a little collector in me. I have the expansion, unopened and yes, I will be using it, as and when I get this to the table. So thank you for the video, I loved the craft of making the video, the puns and funny bits, and am glad that I might have wasted some of my gazillion Scottish dollars when supporting this, but that there is a good game in there, worth playing at least a few times. Keep on making great videos ... all the best from sunny Scotland.

[@evilemil4]

Probably the most entertaining board game review I've ever watched. Subscribed. Thanks!

[@LambertBehnke]

BEST INTRO EVER, ok I will watch the rest now, but I had to stop and write this :)

[@GeekRedux]

As a GenX-er who had the original Dark Tower, I am exactly the target market for this game and, I'll admit, I almost bit on it at my local shop. But, yeah, $200 for the base game was just a bit much. And after watching your review, I'm glad I resisted the urge. This is one of the best reviews you've posted, by the way. Entertaining and informative from start to finish.

[@SILVERF0X13]

Came here a bit too late to help you with this, but they just ended a 2nd printing that had the game at 150. I'd imagine if they make a third expansion and printing, it'll go up for that same price again. That said, 150 is also pricey, so who knows if that is enough of a price drop to make it worth it.

[@GeekRedux]

@@SILVERF0X13 Thanks for that info. Still a bit rich for my blood.

[@ryanlohman4922]

Honestly this game is worth the $ for me. My game group loves it and everyone always asks to play it.

[@busomite]

I recently pitched my non-functional OG Dark Tower in the trash. Pieces missing, tower didn’t work, box smashed, it was time to move on.

[@therupoe]

I love this game! It's simple enough for friends/family that don't have the endurance for more complicated games. My only two complaints: * the app starts out with some really moody music but once you begin there's barely any atmospheric or ambient noise. Overall the sound could be much better. Second, most materials are fine but the cards are very cheaply made. The cards feel terrible - basically thick paper.

[@Carighan]

Yes but for the same money you can easily buy 1-2 family games *and* also get Gloomhaven for your boardgamer group. A far better overall deal.

[@therupoe]

@@Carighan my family plays (we still have our copy) the original dark tower. This one was a nice upgrade and we've really enjoyed our time with it. I have no interest in gloomhaven. Too many bits to manage. (The Jaws of the Lion is a little better in that sense) I grabbed the digital version for a fraction of the price and still don't enjoy it that much. And I was still able to get those family games you mention. So.... win win.

[@SILVERF0X13]

@@Carighan Honestly, I've played both and I'd say that Gloomhaven and Return to Darktower are too different to compare super fairly (other than quality of components/price of course). I did back frosthaven and look forward to trying it out, but I don't think I'll be able to convince my friends to play. Darktower though, my friends have asked multiple times to play, so I think part of it comes down to what types of games your group prefers. All that said, I probably also wouldn't have paid for Darktower at its current retail price. I'm coming at this having paid the kickstarter price instead.

[@Stoicgame]

My aversion to apps is usually from a design perspective. Does the app add to the overall experience? Is the app required for the game to be fun? Could the game have been designed without the app? Is the app programmed well? If I’m satisfied with the answers or at least the reasoning for the answers to those questions then I’m more than happy to play a game with an app. Heck I prefer to play gloomhaven with the app. I’ll pass on this. That is way to big and expensive. I’d rather have a Nintendo Switch lite.

[@RynoKenny]

Only app I’ve enjoyed accompanying a board game is One Night Werewolf.

[@roosterchains]

I feel the same way! I love the Dune Imperium solo/extra player app. It is just less fiddly than using the deck of cards.

[@SILVERF0X13]

I think that's definitely a fair way to look at apps in games. If there isn't a real tangible need for it, then there shouldn't be an app. For this game I've found the app to be very worthwhile. It does a lot of bookkeeping that you would not want to do, and it creates uncertainty in what will happen next or even how long you have to complete things before you run out of time (months are not the same number of turns every game). All that said, the game is definitely pricey. I'd recommend giving it a shot if someone else brings it to the table sometime though. My friends and I have enjoyed far more than we were initially expecting.

[@bretjohnson1039]

Love the honest balance you bring to your reviews. Chips and all!

[@williammcneil2045]

but what if the app stops works, what if that happens, what do i do then :P

[@Person1471]

Never come across you or your reviews before. Wow! That was awesome in so many ways. Thank you - I have certainly subscribed! By the way, you have an "interesting" accent. Are you British but spent too long in the US as a teenager or something...?

[@sablestar1956]

Any board game requiring an app is just another class of game. And that's OK that it's mixed, however, they should not be simply called board games. We need to come up with a name for these kinds of games. AB ( app board) Game or something like that. But we shouldn't call them board games because that's not what they are; they're a mix of board game components and technology.

[@nathanmichael167]

Love this game, but you do ALWAYS get something when you fight a battle. You get 2 spirit.

[@RynoKenny]

My first question when I saw this from Restoration Games was also, “Why?”

[@bekkison]

It’s in the company name :)

[@natts]

Why didn't you ask the thousands of people who funded it?! 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@martind2520]

​@@bekkison Exactly, I'm never going to buy this, but what Restoration Games is doing is great for board-gamers.

[@benhillman8384]

Great stuff as ever. I don’t mind someone spilling an app in my board game if it’s doing something wild a person or pile of cardboard can’t, but IMO part of the magic of board games is that bullying your loved ones into collectively internalising this set of systems somehow turns static, tactile game pieces into something momentarily *alive* - just by directing their arrangement in seemingly arcane configurations. The entirety of the game being right there, happening between, inside of and in front of players feels like something communally shared. By contrast, with some of the app driven games, the sensation that too much of the game is opaquely occurring in the ipad rather than in the room with us is so strong that probably not even a vastly overpriced plastic tower in my peripheral vision could dispel it.

[@cheesedanishable]

Solid review but I feel a lot was missed. The point of the game is to be like a pandemic style adventure, you're running around deciding what fire needs to be put out when. Why fight monsters? Because they're another fire and sure you can ignore them, until you have 5 skulls left and you think you're good when all the enemies you ignored attack and you're not good. There's no reward because putting out the fire is the reward, otherwise fighting would be unbalanced towards characters who are better at fighting, instead all characters can participate equally to the group success. No mention about the scenario types? The hero types? The monster/seed combinations? The gritty difficulty? The comparison between solo/group play? There's a ton of replayability and a lot of variable scenarios using different components leading to some great experiences. And the cost comparison? The crunch? Yes you can get a 'crunchier' game for less money, where is it written that's the golden rule? Plenty of people don't want a gloomhaven size game precisely because it's a brain burny and impossibly long experience to get through. Dark tower gets you from 0 to hero in a couple hours and everyone walks away satisfied. If all you want is light weight, fun and unforgettable experience to pull out here and there then this game knocks it out of the park.

[@SILVERF0X13]

I agree with you on a lot of your points, but I think getting into that stuff in a review like this would probably get a bit overwhelming. This seemed to cover just about enough to get the general idea of the game across without spending an extra half hour on it. I definitely agree though that this fills a niche for people who don't want to handle something as in depth as gloomhaven though. I don't think I could convince my group to commit to something that deep, but they love this game. How do you like gritty difficulty if you've played it btw? I've only played the base game on normal 3 times now and will be trying out the expansion tomorrow, so I haven't opted for the harder variation yet.

[@ob1quixote]

As always, Elaine, your commitment to the bit delights and entertains. And Efka, your commitment during the _Kill Bill_ alert made me clap my hands. 💖

[@dethkknight]

Thanks for the review, I was on the fence on this one as the new Kickstarter starting soon. I now know which side of the fence I will fall.

[@smurfdingo]

really smart review and right on. I'd like to emphasize that as far as coop games go, this is one of the best coop experiences I've had. I love it! Totally agree Alliances makes the game a complete experience but always play with the base when playing with newbs. and really agree with your analysis of the boss fight/corruption issue. I'll also say that some monster combos make the game very easy and others insanely hard. It would be nice if the app had a way of rating each combo, especially for new players. My very first game had the exact issue you describe of monsters feeling kind of irrelevant which made me feel alarmed the game was broken; thankfully subsequent plays demonstrated otherwise. A really great game, albeit imperfect, that i highly recommend. And oh my god i hope they change the ending flavor text; totally weak sauce.

[@bernan1]

New better ending? I imagine a 2nd edition kickstarter stretch goal. ;)

[@piesandhiking4943]

I'm glad my friend bought this. It is fun but we only played the base game and I had a feeling it wouldn't have much depth on repeat plays. Glad to hear the expansion adds some much needed crunch!

[@SILVERF0X13]

I've been enjoying the different scenarios in the base game feeling different, but they certainly don't add any more crunch than the starting scenario. Gonna try out the expansion tomorrow though and every review I've seen has liked it.

[@piesandhiking4943]

@@SILVERF0X13 We've now played the expansion and to be honest it doesn't really add that much crunch. It's definitely a better game with it though.

[@kasparbaktat964]

By the power of grey skull, you are No Pun Included!

[@reallyidrathernot.134]

"... and if you're not american it looks tacky but you're still curious" 110% correct let's goooooo

[@Capin91]

I love the tone of this review, so conflicted haha

[@orwin5445]

I was going to say I'm one of those weird people who does go back and play old games on occasion but then you said there are more important hills to go die on and I agreed so I guess what I'm saying is I might try a game that has a mandatory companion app now thanks! Edit: And now I saw the price... well I guess it will be a different mandatory companion app :/

[@NoPunIncluded]

What a journey! Glad you're trying new things. Sorry in advance if it doesn't work out

[@bernan1]

OMG...what an AWESOME review. I had the original tower. After watching some playthroughs, my big concern was price point....for a pez dispensing tower. They took all the stuff from the old tower and put it in the app (added content to it, obviously)...what is the tower for now? Added price? Oh, but it lights up...and groans a bit. Yay? Take the tower out (or make it cardboard and let the app do everything) and the price drops how far? Watching the vids I'd find myself constantly saying, 'that's all the tower does? And that's the main reason for the high price?' I found the original Tower on an app. It plays exactly how the old one does. It keeps track of where you're at on the map and does all the functions. I had a good time with it, remembering old times. It didn't cost $190. And...it was still kinda cool. After a couple plays, I uninstalled it and went on my way. I've heard the expansion added quite a bit. You corroborated that here. Which is cool. But...if this is the way the game was 'meant to be...' it also costs an additional $40. So...$230 for an oversized pez dispenser. It still doesn't really make the tower itself any more useful or do anything. It seems it makes the app used in the game better. From what I can see, there's much better games at much cheaper price points. Many seem to be raving about this game...I guess they're trying to convince themselves the price is worth it and if they say it enough times it will be true.

[@SILVERF0X13]

I got in on it when it was 125 + 30 for expansion, so 155 for the whole package. I'd say it was well worth that price given that my friends and I have been enjoying it a lot. For $230 though I'd probably side with you. I would still recommend giving it a shot if someone else already owns it, but I think "this is just way too expensive" is a more than valid enough point to not go for it.

[@TalsarGeldon]

I backed this on Kickstarter. I got it, the expansions and all the add-ons. I just wish I had people to play with.

[@bernan1]

yknow..on Halloween you could put the tower up in your windowsill as decoration. Turn it on to hear the kids ooh and ahh. But if you want to scare the parents who's kids might start asking questions, put the price next to it. ;)

[@jameswachtel6103]

How’s the solo?

[@andreikoenig5718]

But what if app don't work?

[@williammyles]

Thanks really enjoyed your review as always good job mate 😊

[@apokai]

Geee I love your videos!!!

[@jasonc2784]

It's a narrative. Not knowing what will happen is part of it, but it also makes planning very hard. Kind of like playing Nemesis.

[@VaultBoy13]

Nemesis is easy to plan for. Just apply Murphy's Law.

[@martind2520]

I feel there is level of contradiction between two parts of this video. 1) "Who cares if the app goes offline? You'll have forgotten about this game by then!" and 2) "This game is so sought after after 41 years that it's selling for £200 on e-bay!"

[@NoPunIncluded]

Well, did you consider that no one actually wants to play that Dark Tower, they'd much rather spend money on this new one as the old one is really just a nostalgia kick for people with disposable income? That's exactly the point, people don't want to play a 40 year old game. They need a fresh new version.

[@GwydionAE]

I know you don't want comments about this, but as far as the app thing goes, we still have the original Dark Tower game, and not only does it still work, but my nephews enjoy playing it, so, yeah, over 40 years later, it's still getting use, so the "it won't work in the future" complaint, at least, can be perfectly valid. On one hand, this new take on Dark Tower seems interesting - adds a lot of stuff modern board gamers are going to really like, it seems (at least, with the expansion). I'd like to try playing it! But I'm not spending that kind of money on it. Even if our old version didn't work anymore I wouldn't bother as, aside from a general look, the two are almost nothing alike. Not that that's a bad thing - much as I enjoy it, the original is very dated in its mechanics, and the tower does most of the work for you - but the point is that this doesn't really work to quench that nostalgia.

[@bernan1]

the old one you can get on an app. The old one you interacted with the tower. You fought it. You cursed people with it. You found keys. The new one...is a servant to the app. Not really doing much. But hey, pretty lights!

[@BadAndy3]

I own it and have played it a handful of times but I just can't figure out why I don't like it more. Co-ops are usually my thing, however this one just feels soulless at times. I've tried to figure out why but just can't come to a reasonable reason why. I will say, however, I have not tried it with the expansion yet.

[@TheAmazingYeti]

I feel the same way.. I really want to LOVE this game.. however I simply just like it.

[@SILVERF0X13]

I still haven't tried the expansion myself (trying tomorrow), but every reviewer I've seen says it adds a lot, so it might be worth giving it one more shot with the expansion to see if it adds what you wanted.

[@bornincrimson]

"The world has just moved on" - can't tell if subtle reference or not.

[@n815e]

I’m still playing favorite games from 20-30 years ago.

[@cyrus1469]

The Game is Best with all the goodies and that includes the new Covenant expansion . 9/10 for sure for me

[@FinubJames]

Would love to see your review of Oathsworn: Into the deepwood

[@LordoftheBoard]

Efka. Your hair in this episode is wonderful

[@bubblepipemedia3414]

Thank you for the amazing review! This one is interesting to me. I have no nostalgia for it (it came out just before my time, barely) and I’m also not that into fantasy games or app based games. The toy factor doesn’t interest me. But gosh if it doesn’t look like an actually good game! There’s part of me that wishes they found a way to dial it back a bit and go all physical, maybe even non-electronic, but we’ll never know if that would have worked/sold. The real question then becomes: why am I okay paying $200 or so for Food Chain Magnate + Expansion but for this, “woah, that’s too much money” lol. In the end, because I love Splotter, it’s hard for me to say “this game is too expensive for what it is” to any game. I will always be tempted with this game, with all expansions etc. But I can’t help but remember that I own Darkest Night and that I really enjoy that game and I’ve yet to really even scratch the surface of replayability there. Thank you for the review. You did a genuinely marvelous job capturing the same pain trying to recommend board games as I do trying to decide buying them. I was already a subscriber but if I weren’t I would subscribe all over again. Keep up the great work!

[@tomd2666]

Delicious Nazgûl omlets.

[@eswift8318]

The video game/app comparisons seem valid. Like a lot of board games these days, it seems like the "base game" is really the incomplete game. Then you need to buy the DLC to make it good. I have made a decision that no matter what, I will not buy a game that has an expansion out at the same time the game comes out. I'm also disappointed that you have a giant hunk of mystery plastic, but the app is driving the game. One or the other. I'd have been more excited if they told me that the tower just had a plastic cylinder with pictures on it that spins around, and there's a tiny light bulb that lights up a picture that tells you what happens. And it would still be good if instead of all the fancy plastic bits, you just had a piece of cardboard with those cheap pegs from Battleships in it. And I'm still not sad I sold my broken Dark Tower for $150. Definitely not sad.

[@goodlookingcorpse]

I don't like the idea of app-based games, but it's nothing to do with the app not working. It's because you don't have access to the complete rules. You don't know the odds of particular things happening, and you can't change them, which is a big part of my interest in game rules.

[@bernan1]

this is a really good point. Tough to house rule when it's on an app.

[@SILVERF0X13]

I'd say that's both a fair point as well as one argument FOR apps as well. Some people don't like not being able to know the odds and I definitely like trying to crunch those numbers myself from time to time, but in this game I kinda like that I just am not allowed to know. Makes things feel a bit more tense if you have to leave some things up to whatever the app decides.

[@Subtleknife12367]

I managed to get the game, the expansion, the upgraded minis and the upgraded tokens for £170 off a friend. For that price I think the game was absolutely great. I think the review is fair. However I love the game because it is simple. I can play with my non board gaming friends and they can pick the game up and enjoy it. Could it be deeper....sure. is it enjoyable.....yes.

[@Mark-OutWest]

That's too bad. This game could have been so much better especially with the designers that worked on the product. It's got a good look to it. I wish the dungeon crawl was much more interesting than it really is. For $190 this game needs to be FLAWLESS and FUN and it just doesn't seem that way with the randomness and things you can just ignore.

[@willd5328]

Skulls for the Skull Throne! I mean… Dark Tower!

[@Heldermaior]

To be fair, by the time this game came out originally, the best worst fantasy game ever made was already out. The game I hate I love and that I love to hate because I was about to get killed by a troll and turned myself into myst with a magic ring and don't have enough mana to revert so I basically can't do anything else for the rest of the game. Or I am playing as the witch king and decide to attack the weakest player who chose the pilgrim. But his pilgrim has the only skill that is useful against you and you are lost forever... I am talking about Magic Realm of course and if you want to try it out, there is a free version that works as a demo and is brilliant.

[@experimentsininsanity4478]

My only concern is that the game won't work if the ap--- oh no I've been eaten by a Non-Fungible Troll.

[@Bede0881]

The game won’t work if the app stops working.

[@garyfaust6769]

We old boys don't pay that much for a game.

[@RazzleDazzle23]

Frodo is actually over 50 if i remember correctly.. 🤓

[@Mark-nh2hs]

Regarding app based games the biggest grumble I've heard is it takes people out of the game as they have to press this and wait for that while everyone is watching the screen awaiting for the next instructions or the story to move on - where it gets to a point where your spending more time looking at a screen 🤣🤣🤣. I'm sure their are games where this is avoided esp if the app is controlled by a GM for example. How much!!! Blow me down I'd rather splash out and buy Gloomhaven lol.

[@justacynic]

I have played the base game with gamers and new gamers alike, as well as multiple solo plays. 98% of the people that played thought it was amazing fun. The only person that didn’t is a guy that rarely likes cooperative games.

[@bernan1]

how many of those 98% went out and bought it after playing it?

[@justacynic]

@@bernan1 Not many, if any. It is a rather high price point.

[@BrotherMingGames]

I love putting a price on childhood

[@germancurbelo8815]

Shout out to one of the best records from a great band.

[@JoshuaGoudreau]

I remember being so confused when I saw this hit Kickstarter because I am not nearly old enough to remember or even be aware the original existed and I'm like 40 lol It looks as crap and nostalgia bait as I suspected

[@gillcaz]

You know Efka is excited when he sounds more Austrian than Lithuanian. Also, yes Elaine those bangs are bangin

[@johnphillips4733]

A mate had the original and we're in the UK. But it doesn't seem common. We played it a lot, and this tempted me, but the price didn't.

[@SILVERF0X13]

Given the current price, I'd only buy if I knew I had a group that'd want to play a bunch. I would however still recommend giving it a shot if you come across someone else who already has it though.

[@SinOfAugust]

App only game that is aimed at people who are interested in nostalgia and want to just own it and like the idea being able to play it for many years to come(whether they actually will or not, they like that IDEA itself)… I feel like there’s an issue there… no?

[@IronSalamander8]

I'm a Gen Xer and I really wanted the original as a kid, but never did get it despite begging for it. I was planning on backing it, but ended up not doing so as I just didn't have the room for this one. I would love to try it though! I love the troll/NFT comment. I can't stand NFTs as it is, made worse as several artist friends have had to deal with that stuff in a bad way.

[@SILVERF0X13]

Would definitely recommend giving it a shot if someone brings it to a game night sometime.

[@vanghard]

What the Latvian have with horses??? Yamiks (video game KZbinr specialize in FPS and space sim) have the exact horse mask.... Great review as always btw :P

[@NoPunIncluded]

ooph, picked a wrong country there

[@vanghard]

@@NoPunIncluded sorry for the mistake: there is no excuse for this lack of geographic and historical knowledge on my part.

[@NoPunIncluded]

@@vanghard don't sweat it, happens to the best of us

[@shiloh6915]

Sooooo, it has nothing to do with the Stephen King books?

[@NoPunIncluded]

Predates them by a year.

[@Tharukan]

What if in 70 years time my greatgrandchildren want to play the game and the tower has stopped working? You did not say anything about tower comments. This is fine.

[@NoPunIncluded]

Point them to your moldy copy of Carcassone!

[@Tharukan]

@@NoPunIncluded Damn, how do you actually know what's in my basement?

[@justanerd1138]

Heh. This game is so much more approachable and will be played much longer than either Gloomhaven or Decent 3 by our group. Both of those games are games for dedicated gamers where Dark Tower is enjoyable by causal gamers and new players as well as dedicated gamers. Not saying it will be played every night but it will be played at least once a quarter.

[@SILVERF0X13]

Ya very similar opinions in my play group. I did back frosthaven but I'm worried that nobody is gonna want to commit to playing it. This game though, my playgroup has played three times in a row, with us trying out the expansion for the first time tomorrow.