Review: Ormandy's Amazingly Ample Columbia Stereos, 1958-63

[@ianpunter4486]

1975, I spent 2 weeks with the Philadelphia and EO, on a BBC "Great Orchestras" documentary. (Film camera assistant). The main Ormandy interview meant filming in his house one day, for several hours. While we had a break, I approached him with my Shostakovich 4th LP sleeve and asked him to sign the front. . Many of you will recall the white background with the huge blue "Shostakovich 4th.....Ormandy....Philadelphia..." emblazoned across the sleeve. Ormandy peered at it for a second or two, looked at me and handed it back to me. "I am sorry, I cannot sign this, I do not know this...." I was mortified, puzzled and didn't know what to do or say. Ormandy then turned the sleeve over and studied the text, which had a musical quotation of the opening of the symphony. He waved his finger in the air, looked at me with that Ormandy twinkle, and said "oh yessss!"....and signed it. In England we would call him a maestro of the 'wind-up".

[@SoiledWig]

i guess it's like with rock bands, they don't remember the track listings or other details of their albums like their fans do.

[@ianpunter4486]

@@SoiledWig oh this was pure mischief....we were all laughing. The 12" LP sleeves were huge!

[@KareemPilot]

I love this review, David. It’s great to see Ormandy and this one of a kind orchestra treated with the love and respect of a learned and open mind. Thanks 🙏

[@jimcrawford5039]

A lot of Ormandy’s recordings were available in the UK & here in Australia in the 60s, as was Munch, Leinsdorf, Szell Reiner & Dorati. So they were all very well known. Love your vids, Dave! Cheers from Oz.

[@josephdiluzio6719]

Dave before even watching this wonderful episode of yours on the extraordinary Eugene Ormandy, I Wish to heartily thank those viewers who wrote In. The fact that this great musician was underrated or snubbed by stupid critics constitutes an incontrovertible phenomenon that these wonderful listeners acknowledge. From my part, owning as I do the very recordings you're about to discuss let me tell you how intrinsically magnificent they are and how even better those interpretations were live in the Academy of Music

[@frgraybean]

I got my copy last week and have been listening with great enjoyment and no small amount of nostalgia. Many of these records were my first hearings of so many pieces...Scheherezade, Brahms PC 1, Respighi, Tchaikovsky 5, Sibelius 1 & 2, Strauss tone poems, Saint Saens 3, Shostakovich 4, Wagner highlights, and yes, even Messiah. What a treasure trove! How in the world did they make all those records in just five years!?!?!

[@markvaz9300]

Have you listened to the recording of Grofe's "Grand Canyon Suite"? I don't have the boxed set yet and I'm wondering if Sony included the correct recording from 1957. As I stated in a previous comment, they had uploaded the wrong performance to KZbin's "Eugene Ormandy - Topic" channel. That was actually Ormandy's 1968 remake for Columbia (not released until 1969). The original 1957 recording was supposedly reissued by Sony Japan as part of their Ormandy series but I was unable to hear it to confirm. My thinking is that if Sony uploaded the wrong recording to KZbin, then they might have included the wrong recording in the boxed set. I have many fond memories of the earlier recording, for it was the one that introduced me to Ormandy and the PO. I had borrowed the mono version from my local library (in the '50s and '60s, Columbia and RCA were releasing their stereo recordings in both stereo and mono versions) and played it repeatedly until it almost wore out. Truth be told, I actually prefer the 1957 recording to the 1968 remake. For one thing, I don't like Concertmaster Norman Carrol's phrasing of the violin solo in "On the Trail" in that remake.

[@frgraybean]

Yes, indeed. It is the 1957 recording that was issued in July 1958. It is fabulous.

[@eddihaskell]

@@frgraybean This is an aside, but my first job out of Business School was with Philip Morris' Ad Agency that milked that recording to the max as the theme for Marlboro Man. I think many of us had parents who had a some version of the Grand Canyon Suite in their collection.

[@richardallen3810]

I bought the mono box set upon your recommendation last year and love it. Just now playing it when I came across this review for the stereo. Providence for sure. Definitely buying this box set.

[@garyengler165]

I can only afford one o the boxes - which do I go with? Mono, or stereo? Thanks!

[@richardallen3810]

@@garyengler165 The mono sound is fantastic and very sharp and clear. It’s a personal choice but you can’t do wrong with either

[@endicot1949]

Thank you for the great journey down memory lane and for making me feel so old!. I had so many of the recordings in this collection. I had all but forgotten about several of them like Air Power. A lot of shekels were expended by this teen in the early 60s.

[@martinhaub6828]

My copy is arriving tomorrow supposedly. Will make nice listening over the holidays. This is the third Sony Ormandy big box - now if someone would just get the hint and deliver us a fine Ormandy biography!

[@rev.peterschiefelbein5638]

Thank you. I ordered the box on the basis of your review having grown up with the idea he was the best of the second-tier conductors. I was stunned and enthralled by what I heard. I loved the box so much that I immediately ordered the Legacy box even before listening to your (lengthy) review. There were giants in those days, and Ormandy was indispensably one.

[@alanmcginn4796]

I am making my way through the box. About half way through. Comparing stereo to mono. Amazing! Dave. Wonderful video.

[@dmntuba]

This Ormandy video is like have old friends that you made over the years paraded in front of you. Some you haven't heard from in years, but many you stayed in touch with. Good Times 👍

[@dianasinclair8807]

He's been dead well over 40 years and he's still one of my favorite conductors

[@john1951w]

Ormandy was so underestimated. A wonderful conductor of a truly great orchestra.

[@eddihaskell]

Was he? I think for the postwar period, he was probably the most fpopular American -based conductor amond the general population. Everyone seems to have heard of him when I was a child. I know Reiner, Solti, Szell, Munch, Walter, etc were also widely admired among people who know music, but in terms of popular appeal, perhaps Bernstein (and Stowkoswki( has as much popular acclaim. I would be that Philadelphia under Ormancy sold more LP's than any American-based orchestra while he was condutor.

[@dmntuba]

I studied with Gilbert Johnson (principle trumpet on these recordings) for 2 years. Not only did I learn so much from him (on orchestral rep, musicality, cigars, and fishing 🤣) he also shared many "behind the scenes " stories...so I will share one. Now Gil did have much respect for Ormandy & spoke highly of him, but it's always "players" VS. conductor 😆 Gil never clarified if Ormandy did this on live concerts (may have), but when ever Ormandy recorded Brahms symphony 1 (even though there is NO tuba) He would have the Tuba player sit around just to play on the final chord to give little more bass support to cellos & basses. Ormandy did that on a few other pieces, but when you think about the acoustics of The Academy of Music it was probably a good idea 👍

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Many conductors do similar. I saw a recording of Schubert's 9th with a tuba part added in spots. It sounded fine, and anything that reinforces the bass line when necessary is good by me.

[@josephdiluzio6719]

Dave's best line: Ormandy known for Sound, Sensuality but NEVER slow & ALWAYS IN TEMPO. Bravo, DH !

[@IsothermeMusic]

Ordered mine from Germany the other day. Excited to receive!

[@MickeyCoalwell]

Old friends, indeed! I share your nostalgic enthusiasm for these fine recordings, Dave. I’m also a strong partisan for Ormandy as a concerto collaborator-he seems vastly underrated in that regard. Like you, I have mixed feelings about the plethora of minor Americana included in their catalog, but it is an essential part of their history as a premier American ensemble. Thank you!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'm all for the plethora!

[@Jere616]

Growing up in the early '60s, we listened to rock on our cheap turntable. Our dad used to slip in classical LPs among our 45s. We listened to them just the same. I accidentally became an EO "snob" due to his fantastically bright arrangement of Rimsky Korsakov's Scheherazade. I compared every other conductor's since, like Leonard Bernstein's which I felt was inferior in comparison. Dad was smart to get us to appreciate more music than the flash in the pan rock songs of those years.

[@mgconlan]

Ormandy's record of Rachmaninoff's "Symphonic Dances" would qualify for your series of records by conductors who led the world premiere. I know you don't care for his recording, but he did lead the world premiere with the Philadelphia Orchestra on January 3, 1941 at Rachmaninoff's request. Your review brought to mind several memories; my mother had the Sibelius Violin Concerto with Oistrakh and "The Swan of Tuonela," and my first exposure to Richard Strauss's "Ein Heldenleben" was a previous Ormandy/Philadelphia recording on five 12-inch RCA Victor 78's. I also had an earlier Ravel "Bolero" on a two-sided. blue-label Columbia 45 EP.

[@bbailey7818]

Ormandy is said not to have liked the Symphonic Dances. Marston issued a homemade recording of Rachmaninov demonstrating the tempi for the work for Ormandy. That Sibelius disc, on budget Odyssey lp, was one of the great bargains ever, worth its weight in gold. It was my first and still a top favorite.

[@geraldmartin7703]

I once read that the Rutgers University Choir was used on Carmina Burana because the Morman Tabernacle Choir refused to sing the "dirty" Latin verses. Obviously the college kids didn't have the same problem.

[@comradestannis]

Just discovered this channel. Keep it up. I aim to see more.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Welcome aboard!

[@denbigh51]

Would be happy to receive this for Christmas (not going to happen) but we have nearly everything here from previous reissues. A box of not previously reissued recordings would be my wish.

[@petekohn]

I tend to agree with you, it’s disappointing to have the same stuff in approximately the same sound. But some of it is so vastly improved in sound that it mitigates the disappointment somewhat.

[@craigfazekas3923]

Even though I grew up in the Delaware Valley in the 1970s & '80s ? The prevalence of these works were large in the region even 20 years later. Iconic. Comfortably along side of Philly Soul, Shero's Flyers, pretzels & heck- John Facenda too !! It's as though these works were a big source of pride in the years to follow to the Philly area populace. Something we could could claim that held a social significance in our part of the world.... Great review there, chief !! I'm inspired as a result !! 🚬😎👍

[@eddihaskell]

Its not just the Delaware Valley -- it extended to the New York Metro. Sure, we had the New York Philharmonic (I can remember the Bernstein years) but my parents used to play their treasured Ormandy albums on the RCA Victor stereo in the Danish Modern teak funiture cabinet in the living room with reverance.

[@glennsolva1567]

I ordered this Ormandy stereo box on the 22nd. Hoping to get it eventually. I also added the Minneapolis stuff since it was relatively cheap. Thanks a lot for this review. As always, a pleasure to watch. 🎼🎶🎶🎶

[@SoiledWig]

i like the Minneapolis box, too. They're nothing if not enthusiastic!

[@eddihaskell]

I've been listening to my 88 discs for the past week. This is a wonderful collection of priceless recordings. Anyone who likes symphonice music needs to purchase this, especially at the price this collection can be had at right now. Just BUY it. The printed artwork on the CD covers is wonderful to look at also -- what a labour of love. One thing I really like is that you get TWO Sibelius Violin Concertos -- one with Ostrakh from 1960 and one with Stern from 1969 (as a filler for Sibelius Symphony 1, it is hidden at the end). I really liked Sibelius 7 btw, Ormandy's take is perfect. (Edit- addtion. One recording I could live without is Handel's Messiah with the superb Mormon Tabernacle Choir, inc. Eileen Farrell and William Warfield as soloists. It is so slow! It makes the old British versions with the Hudderfield Choral Society sound absolutely snappy in comparison)!

[@sultanalamos170]

A mi me interesaría tener ese álbum. Desde mi juventud, mi cultura musical le debe mucho a Eugene Ormandy y Filadelfia Orquesta. Desde Chile 🇨🇱 . Mario Dueñas B. Gracias.

[@presbyterosBassI]

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir recordings were subsidized by choir and orchestra benefactors. Messiah especially was subsidized to get a world class solo quartet. Anshal Brusilow tells the story in his book.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yes, I remember.

[@a.m.rademaker3360]

Many thanks for a wonderful review of a wonderful set! I came across your review as I was playing disc 16. I was intrigued, and relieved, to hear no Mormon Tabernacle Choir in the 1812 Overture (they only sing in Rimsky's Slava on track 20), even though both the track listing and the index suggest they should be there. That is a bit puzzling, as Sony does not seem prone to errors of this kind.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You're right! Thanks for the correction. I had the LP and I didn't remember a choir there, but they said it was there and I should have double-checked again, so I appreciate the input.

[@alanmillsaps2810]

I haven't seen this box set but I suspect the track listing you mention is an error. Ormandy recorded 1812 in stereo sound for Columbia in 1959 without a chorus and I presume that's the version included in this set. In a 1971 re-issue Columbia replaced the opening with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, dubbed in a military band, bells, cannons, etc. at the end and advertised the recording as a new version (not a new recording). It was coupled with Ormandy's 1960 Serenade for Strings on side 2 and even came out in a quad LP version. All this was done to compete with Ormandy's actual new recording of 1812 for RCA, complete with choir, electronic bells, cannons, etc. coupled with Wellington's Victory on side 2. Ah, those were the good 'ol days. Columbia's 1971 re-issue version will probably come in the next Ormandy stereo box.

[@geraldmartin7703]

Ormandy's 1962 1812 has no chorus. Ormandy's 1971 Columbis recording has the Morman Tabernacle Choir. The 1971 Columbia L.P. was issued immediately after the Orchestra's return to RCA, which celebrated with a highly advertised 1812 recording. One review-- I believe it might have been in High Fidelity-- claimed that Columbia hastily tatted up its' "naked" 1962 1812 by simply adding the chorus and brass band-- all just to rain on RCA's parade. I have no idea if any of this is true. Columbia and RCA were definitely rivals.

[@flexusmaximus4701]

I'm disappointed they didn't include his Beethoven symphony cycle, and his Bruckner 4th. That of course will come in the next box. Never thought his stereo output would need TWO massive boxes! Just amazes me, so much,,,,music.

[@josepholeary3286]

Just bought 12 Cd box of "Eugene Ormandy conducts 20th Century Classics" and now I want to buy many more boxes!

[@OuterGalaxyLounge]

Your mention of Londonderry Air reminds me that Quincy Jones did a piece called London Derriere. Clever wot?

[@petekohn]

Some of these remasterings are remarkable improvements on the versions currently available anywhere (e.g., Prokofiev 4 and 5).

[@dannycarrington1601]

Some of the couplings were altered for this release but in ways that make sense: Sibelius #7 and Respighi's Feste Romane were originally paired on vinyl; here, #7 is paired with Sibelius #2 and Fest Romane is on the same disc as Pines of Rome and Fountains of Rome. I listened to The Messiah the other day, it's pleasant in a "Time-Life presents" sort of way.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Sure, it's very enjoyable, for what it is. It's just that what it is isn't what it ought to be, if you know what I mean.

[@bbailey7818]

Odd that Columbia issued two Messiahs in their catalogue, the other with Bernstein, and both were "Christmas season" 2 lp abridgements. RCA and Decca both had very complete versions. The former's Robert Shaw was considered advanced and "authentic" in performance practice terms.

[@dannycarrington1601]

@@DavesClassicalGuide I understand, it's fine as background music during the holidays but won't replace Pinnock.

[@dannycarrington1601]

@@bbailey7818 That's the downside to the labels' focus on releasing the boxes; we're not necessarily getting the best performances of all of these works. There are plenty of better Messiah recordings in the archives, but I don't know that I need another - I've lost count of how many I own.

[@FREDGARRISON]

Another thought, Dave. Didn't hear anything about Ormandy and The Philadelphians album HOLIDAY FOR ORCHESTRA. Hopefully this will be included in the next series released. Maybe it was released after 1963. Stay warm, it's freezing here in Pennsylvania.

[@fred6904]

Holiday for orchestra! was released in 1965.

[@FREDGARRISON]

Much thanks for the info. It will most likely be released at a later date. Fred

[@josephdiluzio6719]

Dave what you say about ormandy's sibelius Symphony Number One is just beautiful man

[@eddihaskell]

I just listened to Sibelius 7th. I love Ormandy's approach. I really am not classically trained but it sounds like a romantic successor to Tchaikovsky or Bruckner and not like a modern edgy symphony.

[@gsdelcura]

Thank you very much David. Your chanel is truly a public service. 🚩For anyone who has both the mono and the stereo box sets, is it worth buying the stereo box set if you already have the 120 CD mono one? Many thanks.

[@davidaiken1061]

Thanks, Dave, for this labor of love. Indeed much to love in this box, which will be arriving next week. Can hardly wait. Unlike you, I didn't grow up with Ormandy's recordings. It was only later, when Sony started releasing many of Ormandy's great recordings on their "Essential Classics" label that an i began to appreciate his achievement. I'm delighted that most of those have now been reissued in this box, together with much else that intrigues and astonishes (that B Minor Mass especially). After doing a fair amount of comparative listening I have come to agree with you, Dave, about the relative merits of Ormandy's recording of the Rachmaninoff "Symphonic Dances." Despite sme wonderfully lush playing from the Philadelphians, Ormandy's reading is too soft-edged and insufficiently "balletic." (My comparisons were with Slatkin, Ashkenazy, and Previn). This 88-CD box will keep me listning for a long, long time. Kudos to Sony.

[@bplonutube]

I know Carmina very well and the choir in that performance did a very respectable job. Nothing to be ashamed about. I didn’t know about the re-orchestrations, but it doesn’t sound that different to me. That’s a piece I’ve done many many many times both as soloist and Conductor. I think it’s a very enjoyable performance. And for my money, Harve Presnell, the baritone soloist is absolutely spot on fabulous. Possibly my favorite in the work.

[@jonathanparfrey9070]

Harve Presnell played old Sergeant Ryan, crying in the Normandy graveyard, in Saving Private Ryan.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'm glad you enjoy it.

[@davidtprice]

Harve Presnell hands down gave the best recorded performance ever of the baritone part. It's a shame he never had an opera/concert career.

[@bplonutube]

@@davidtprice I hadn’t listen to it for a long time. And it is absolutely fabulous. And he was able to lighten up in the dies nox in which he is absolutely stunningly beautiful. I’m glad we are in agreement.

[@bplonutube]

@@DavesClassicalGuide the first thing I pulled out was the Frank D Minor. I absolutely loved that performance. Then I went and put on the Monteux Chicago, and I actually think I prefer Ormandy. As you said, in your video, we had such an embarrassment of riches with the big five at that time. Thanks for the entertaining video review. I can hardly wait for the next batch to come out. I was not a big Ormandy fan until you reviewed the mono box.(along with a few other things) I am definitely an Ormandy fan now!

[@richfarmer3478]

Ormandy does Barber's Adagio in about 7 minutes which always surprised me considering the reputation of the strings. By contrast, there is a version by Bernstein which crawls on for about 10 minutes.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Great, silky, and sexy doesn't have to be slow!

[@bbailey7818]

The published score, presumably with Barber's agreement, has a recommended timing of 7-8 minutes. I believe I read that Barber disapproved of Bernstein's protracted timing.

[@toddschurk8143]

Just a side note - the Barber Adagio was recorded on April fourteenth 1957, but two different takes were made, the quicker one (7:47) is this one in the stereo box, whereas the mono legacy box contains the slower take (8:16) on disc 99. Both from the same sessions.

[@bbailey7818]

The Brahms-Rubbra Handel Variations was originally side 4 of the German Requiem. I actually bought the set because that was on it. I wanted to hear if it sounded any better in modern stereo than it did in Toscanini's 1939 NBC performance. It didn't, but for me it's still fun. Update: Brahms 1st which I just heard. Sorry, but I was disappointed in it. I missed an element of power and direction. It reminded me of what Haggin (I think) said about Koussevitzsky and Boston. Sometimes the interpretations were less about the music itself and more about how beautifully the Philadelphians could play. But the Franck/D'Indy and Debussy discs are the right kind of beautiful. I'm with you on choral versions of the 1812. Hate 'em. Brusilow said the Vivaldi Seasons was done at the tail end of various recording sessions as a treat for him and he was grateful. Regarding Vivaldi and the Bach b minor, hip hip hooray for un- HIP Baroque performances. H. Casadesus, didn't he pass off a number of his works as the real thing, Mozart, and the like a la Kreisler? I love that Bluebeard's Castle also and, unlike Fricsay, there are no cuts. P.S. I looked up the Shostakovich disc (Cello Concerto & Sym 1) in High Fidelity. Surely, it must have been the subject of a feature review! I was shocked. Alfred Frankenstein (monster?) gave it barely five lines. He called the concerto "dull and trivial" and said the 1st symphony was overexposed. End of review. Nothing about Rostropovich and the orchestra. A modern Hanslick and that's insulting to Hanslick.

[@RichardKaplan-ro1mv]

Henri Casadesus (Robert's uncle) and his brother Marius ran the Society of Ancient Instruments, and premiered long-lost works of dead composers, pieces that they actually wrote themselves.

[@emtube9298]

This is the Ormandy I loved in my youth and always wanted to get, but jumped at the earlier boxed set thinking it was his stereo repertoire.......arrrgh. They didn't state that clearly in the blurb I read.... Oh, well, I still have my memories...

[@Bucky55]

Anyone trying to read the small print on the back of the sleeves, take a picture with your cell phone camera, then you can zoom in on the picture and read it. Edit: For anyone interested, the next Ormandy box, 1964-1983, is due out end of February 2025 per Amazon.

[@davidrowe3356]

Wonderful journey through the box Dave. My mother had the Christmas album, and that was my gateway to Ormandy and those Fabulous Philadelphians. I DO WONDER if they left one out. Ormandy did my favorite (yes, soft-edged) version of the Prokofiev 1st "Classical", which mu Essential Classics copy says was recorded in March of 1961... Perhaps it was released later...? But I note that the booklet lists the recording dates, not the dates of release. Here's hoping it finds its way into the next box. By the way, did you have any impressions regarding the Japanese masterings you mentioned vs these? THANKS!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It should be there. I've talked about that CD--with the "Oranges" Suite and "Kijé." It's a favorite. I'm still playing around, but no firm feelings about the Japanese stuff vs. this latest issue.

[@fred6904]

The LP whith Prokofiev's Classical Symphony ( No 1) was released 1964.

[@dianasinclair8807]

I haven't had a chance to watch your entire presentation yet but I was excited when I saw this and went on Amazon to take a look at this collection (to see what all is included). I am really peeved: the chucklehead who entered the disc information failed to list the titles of the works. Some are pretty obvious (On the Trail: okay that's a "gimme") but most of the discs have listings like: Allegro moderato; Largo; Vivace...no title. No composer. No title. I'm not spending nearly $300 unless I know what's on this collection.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Try watching the video! Or go to the Presto Music UK website for a complete track listing.

[@dianasinclair8807]

I knew you'd help me! THANKS@@DavesClassicalGuide

[@johnmontanari6857]

By happy coincidence, RCA just reissued the complete recordings of Anshel Brusilow and the Chamber Symphony of Philadelphia. I am finally reunited with one of my favorite LP's, featuring the Cherubini Symphony, in the finest rendition this side of Toscanini's, and Haydn's Symphony No. 60, "Il distratto." It's even better than I recall. Now I'll just have to bide my time for the second Ormandy set and another long-lost fave, his Columbia recording of Nielsen's 6th.

[@bbailey7818]

Brusilow also has what I consider the reference version of Brahms Serenade 1. I've heard the entire six cd mini box. There's not a single thing in it which isn't first rate. OK, maybe Yardumian's Mass which, as a composition, lacks variety. I won't be returning to that soon.

[@folanpaul]

Dear David, I have a suggestion for you for a small series. It might be a rubbish one, or you may have done it already, so please ignore if so. Some multi-movement works have a movement which is always played to death, at concerts, on radio etc.; whereas the other movements in the same work don’t get a look in. Are there any examples of such works where movement X is played to death, but listeners should really be listening to movement Y from the same work, which is just as good, or even better? The opening movement of Beethoven’s fifth symphony springs to mind. It’s a fantastic movement, but somehow I’ve always enjoyed the second movement more (but maybe that’s just a personal taste thing, I guess). Anyway, just an idea…

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Thanks. I think that' s a very interesting suggestion.

[@petterw5318]

Or the Andante con moto in Schubert's second piano trio.

[@mgconlan]

Another example, also by Beethoven: the "Moonlight" piano sonata. I just attended a recital by pianist Bryan Verhoye, who joked that people are always coming up to him and saying, "I played the 'Moonlight' sonata." He'd ask them, "Did you play the whole thing?" It turned out most of them had only played the first movement, and sometimes they were surprised that there was any more of it!

[@OuterGalaxyLounge]

Great idea. I like it.

[@jimyoung9262]

Great idea. Last movement of Dvorak's 9th symphony

[@d.r.martin6301]

It would be interesting to know how many copies are issued in these massive collector's editions of this or that great old artist. Hundreds? Thousands? Obviously, it's a good business proposition for the labels involved, or they wouldn't do it. But how many people need to own everything a conductor who's long gone put out during his career? It's quite a phenomenon. The closest I've come is the Brilliant edition of all of Alfred Brendel's Vox and Vanguard recordings. But that was a gift.

[@frankpotter877]

I am a music lover but not a musician. About 30 years ago, I read that part of the Phil string smooth sound came from tuning at something like 444 instead of 440. Comment?

[@dr2549]

Oddly enough, I cannot recall even one Ormandy recording that for me is Best Choice - not even the celebrated Carmina Burana.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I am sorry that your memory seems to be failing.

[@davidtprice]

Does the time span 1958-63 mean recording dates or release dates? There seems to be many things recorded during this period that aren't in the box. Prokofiev's 1st ('61) and Elgar's Enigma Variations ('62) come to mind, among others.

[@markvaz9300]

I think it means the release dates... If I understand correctly Ormandy and the PO were recording in stereo as early as 1957. I love Ormandy's "Enigma" Variations, it's my favorite stereo recording of the work. My favorite mono recording is Toscanini's with the NBCSO. It's possible Sony may wait to release the Prokofiev "Classical" Symphony with the "Lt. Kije" Suite (my absolute favorite recording of that work) and "The Love for Three Oranges" Suite in the next boxed set.

[@CortJohnson]

Just heard his Rach 2 - that’s enough for me! - the box is on my list 😊 Speaking of Stern, I don’t know if Dave’s done the Stern box…

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Haven't.

[@fred6904]

​@@DavesClassicalGuideDear Mr Hurwitz! Please do consider to make a talk about the Isaac Stern Box! Best wishes Fred from Kristianstad.

[@charlescoleman5509]

I just listened to Ormandy's/Phily's second Tchaikovsky 5 on Delos. The portamento moments are still there. But it's more subliminal and harder to notice. And the Sony version is so much better!.

[@petekohn]

I agree. The Delos sound just doesn’t do it for me.

[@richfarmer3478]

Maybe Carmina Burana was a little too risque for the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

[@eddihaskell]

Well, there is a nice video up of the BYU (Brigham Young University) Choir and Orchestra performing it. If you know anything about BYU in Provo, Utah, they are not exactly a hotbed of liberalism.

[@richfarmer3478]

@eddihaskell true. Give my regards to Lumpy Rutherford.

[@charlescoleman5509]

Arguably the best Scheherazade gong hit 4th movement is Neeme Järvi and Scottish National Orchestra.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Yep.

[@Delius1958]

Thanks for the video, Dave! - I find these boxes are a sellout by the companies. And worse: for me they are intimidating. How can I ever hope to make it through 80 or 100 CDs (by just one conductor). They sit like lead on the shelf. In the past you bought an expensive single CD - but that was something which brought immediate joy and focused interest. They should put out smaller boxes - sometimes they do, as in the case of Barbirolli. I don‘t need everything by conductor X. I‘m glad that older single CDs still can be found. - Greetings from Berlin, Harry

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Just take your time and you'll be done with them before you know it! And you don't have to listen to ALL of them--at the price just consider them a bonus if you're in the mood someday.

[@HassoBenSoba]

Interesting that a Szell or Reiner could demand and achieve excellent choral singing, even though amateur (Shaw and Hillis were unsurpassed). It's odd that NY or Philly never established their own chorus. English choruses (also amateur, as you point out) of that era still had substantial, rugged, "ruddy" sound, since that was part of the "DNA" of the British population at the time. All of those university & conservatory chorales, societies and festivals in American cities just couldn't muster the necessary sound to legitimately represent the big choral works. The Ormandy/Rutgers "Carmina" is a particularly sad example of that basic "glee club" sound (in addition to the watered down percussion). LR

[@james6039]

I have most of the Columbia boxes. Too bad they downsized the box sets. I loved the big books in the other sets.