Reviewer Roundtable 2 - 'As the Artist Intended'

[@wavetheorysound]

At about 33:10 we discuss the quote "Audiophiles don't use their gear to listen to your music. They use your music to listen to their gear." This quote is often attributed to Alan Parsons. However, he likely never said it. It was first said by a commenter on an article which was about an interview with Alan Parsons. From there the internet worked its 'magic' and now this quote is falsely attributed to Parsons in many forums. I encourage all to correct this when possible. I will ask @GoldenSound to put a link to the source of this in the video description so YT does not take this comment down. Thanks!

[@kesamek8537]

'As the Artist Intended' is secret question only Bob Stuart knows about, and you require an MQA system to hear the answer.

[@PassionforSound]

I love this!

[@Yu-Fei-Hung]

Ain’t MQA some kind of scam?

[@enjoshi-godrez8775]

@@Yu-Fei-Hung learn what a joke is.

[@Yu-Fei-Hung]

@@enjoshi-godrez8775 yes, sometimes it is not easy to get it is a joke

[@dasninjastix]

Loving this virtual round table discussion. Always refreshing to have thoughtful discourse on a range of topics. Keep 'em coming 🙏

[@PassionforSound]

Glad to hear they're enjoyable!

[@PixelPipes]

Man you get a bunch of experts in a room, and they just gush with fascinating knowledge. I don't listen to podcasts but this is really something special. I had such a great time listening to it!

[@PassionforSound]

So glad you're finding the conversations so valuable!

[@r423sdex]

Experts !

[@Nephilim-81]

Absolutely excellent topics of conversation. Really appreciate all of it. But one question. Can we make the conversations more ‘Purple?’ 😂

[@PassionforSound]

We will try for some more purpleness in the next one... 😉

[@arnaudgraebert1920]

TINY DESK! Currently my favourite "recordings" by far. The mix of intimate performances and amazing recording setup yields unbelievable performances. The amount of details and feel you get from a few of those is insane. I wish studios were recording like this. Favs include: - Lake Street Dive kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJDXZminqrdqrpo - Beirut kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGG4eoZ5espoaLs - Gary Clark Jr kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZupoGmiachgpcU - Tash Sultana kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYene2uFaNGDeKM - Passion Pit kzbin.info/www/bejne/e6OXomZqhZqDrtU - Foster the People kzbin.info/www/bejne/oX7RdXuLgKyAjdU - Phoenix kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWGlgZSPa8RsntU - Harry Styles kzbin.info/www/bejne/oHqspq14ZpaXqaM his musicians are amazing Another noteworthy performance best appreciated on KZbin Sylvan Esso - With Love kzbin.info/www/bejne/eae9m6imgc6lY5o

[@TimpTim]

Great discussion with folks whom I respect. Fascinating that you are from 4 different areas of the world, yet share this love of music and the gear we use to hear it. I feel that individual differences, preferences, ear training/music experience and above all the level of hearing (as in audiogram) are key to understanding the varied experiences we have with audio gear. Thanks for a thoughtful discourse.

[@gibgun]

Can’t tell you how much I enjoyed and appreciated this! Bombed it over to redacted to grab some of the music suggestions too

[@hartyewh1]

Best not to assume that artists know about good sound. You might be shocked at what audio gear people use in studios. Good music and a good recording can be completely separate and often it's the producer and other studio people who save the good-on-paper turd being made by the artist themselves.

[@PassionforSound]

So true!

[@bbfoto7248]

@hartyewh I find it ironic that so much (and I mean A LOT) of music from the 80's through the 2000's (and even still) was mixed in studios using $200-$400 Yamaha NS-10 monitors...and then mastered using $50k+ ATCs. :-O In addition, consider the actual Signal Chain and signal path that was used in both tracking (initial recording of each track) and then in final mixing for EACH Separate Source in order to create a final song. There were and are usually DOZENS (or more) separate analog and digital rackmount processing gear in the signal chain, usually with a mishmash of 100's of feet of interconnect cables of varying quality, with some of the gear being transformer based, some tube/valve based, and some solid state...IOW, each vocal and instrument was sent through *multiple instances* of compressors, limiters, EQs, delay/reverb/stereo EFX processors, etc. For 95% of recordings, the sound that finally ended up on the tape machine or hard disk was anything but a short, "straight wire with gain"! And still, quite a few of those LPs or CDs sound fantastic. And some not so much, of course. :-p

[@r423sdex]

All depends on the artists. I like the ones that put the effort in. So not true !

[@hartyewh1]

@@r423sdex Likewise, but that's not all artist which was what I said.

[@eLcHiNoChannel]

Great video! Excellent conversation and very interesting topics... keep them coming!

[@dar._]

Seems to be Lachlans fate that calls end in an uncomfortably hilarious manner. see ; all his Patreon calls. Thanks for the conversation gents.

[@PassionforSound]

Our pleasure. I think the issue is that our Patreon calls and these discussions all just run overtime. Maybe I'm the problem? 😉

[@RyanDeLaTorre]

I still remember the first time one of my girlfriends heard my headphone setup, the first question she asked me was something like, "Is all this detail in here on purpose?" ...regarding gear, I definitely think you should buy/listen to whatever sounds good to you, but yeah, it's still an interesting question to think about sometimes. :D

[@mladenbasic1]

Finally somebody really gets it! thanks for your insights.

[@marctestarossa]

My creed: The author is dead. I don't really care or even think about what the artist intended. What is important is what I hear, read, watch, whatever, and do with it. It's open for interpretation and this also means the (technical) circumstances that we sometimes can influence and sometimes we can't. Did an artist intend to have her piece placed in a museum? And if so, which colour was the light intended to be? Which background and how much space was needed for the intention of the artist? Did the author intend me to read in a library, on a train ride, on my couch? Those are all circumstances that have a great deal of influence on how the work is perceived. And all those questions can't be answered and the artist can't control how the art is consumed so it's up to us. We experience artistic work and we have to be active, we need to come up with an interpretation or not and if it's the interpretation that the artist intended or not really doesn't matter. And that is the beauty with great art, it speaks to us and everybody understands parts of it in different ways and there's no definite answer to all the questions we have, it's just important that we ask them.

[@arthurhaywood2184]

The “Unplugged” series was probably one of the best in determining the artist’s intentions since they were recorded live and in person. I’ve also found both jazz and classical artists to be very particular about their performance. I’ve had family that was heavily involved in the music industry from artist management to A and R to studio recording. This was primarily in the Pop and RnB sector for some very high profile musicians. It’s true that no recording is finalized unless it sounds good on the equipment that the target audience is most likely to use. In the case of popular music, we’re talking Beats, Apple and such.

[@alfredallram1815]

glad you mentioned the Tiny Desk concert from Anderson .Paak. this is musically and soundwise WAY ABOVE his records indeed. no wonder it is so highly regarded. my favorite.

[@edverbeek6292]

Love these panel members together! You together come up with some really profound thoughts. Thanks

[@PeterHas]

The artist Mondo Grosso is friends with Oyaide and uses their XLR, USB, power cables and power strips in his studio when producing music. So presumably to hear his music as intended we all need to run out and buy Oyaide cables as well. Then we need to track when he upgrades his XLR and USB cables to newer models and swap back and forth depending on which of his albums we're listening to at the moment to truly capture the intended sound. Hopefully the artist doesn't change their mind over time and prefers how the music sounds on a different system from the one used in production.

[@stevetaylorftw]

Y’all appear to have bumped into a well known issue in literary criticism: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author

[@PassionforSound]

Absolutely! The perception of the consumer/listener/reader is as important as anything else

[@Ray-dl5mp]

Incredible discussion that every audio person should listen to. This might change a lot of people's outlooks regarding focusing on the wrong things instead of enjoying life. Or at least this should help people enjoy the hobby more.

[@andysummersthxcinemaandmyc7748]

snobs rich class audio hi-fi and i switched the video off at 0 : 2seconds

[@andreaaaaaaa574]

Can you make a video about bit perfect audio and tell if you hear a difference?

[@IHearEverythingDude]

One thing is for sure. It's definitely different than as reviewers intended :)

[@PassionforSound]

How do you mean, Alex?

[@arthurhaywood2184]

I have to say that I need more of this Round Table Series!!! At least once a month! It’s the best thing pertaining to audio and equipment on KZbin.

[@robvandendolder3157]

Thanks again folks. Great video 😎👍

[@ryanhostudio]

this is sick i wanna talk to you guys too haha

[@PassionforSound]

We're discussing the possibility of doing some live streams in future...

[@nespressoman]

Passion, no offence meant but can you alter the aperture on your camera, please? I love shallow depth of field but not when it makes the foreground blurred, only the background. Your microphone in the foreground that is blurred is distracting. I hope you don’t mind me saying this, thanks.

[@PassionforSound]

No problems at all. It's actually the way I've setup my webcam so it's not distracting with all the gear behind me. I might shift over to my main camera next time...

[@nespressoman]

@@PassionforSound Thank you for your reply. I think it is just the depth of field needs to be adjusted so that a little more is in focus behind you. It’s just the mic in front that is the problem, our eyes don’t like blurred foregrounds. Thanks again for a wonderful channel.

[@hifix-man319]

The problems of owning too many cans is that it is hard to maximize the best synergy among sources, and other links. You can't expect use the same setup to listen to two headphones with equally the best result.

[@matticeverhoeven6539]

Couldn't agree with Cameron from GoldenSound more. I don't seek what the artist intended, I seek what I think sounds awesome.

[@kautkascitadaks]

Most of the msuci today is made for drug/substance use, unless you do the same substances the artist does, you will never hear it as intended, no matter your gear quality. Also feel like totl dynamic drivers are alway Gona be more right sounding than e stats or plants. Just a super resolving and fast full spectrum dynamic driver is best solution for hearing as artist intended to. Also most of the music has nothing to do with cocaine, most of what's good and is on top of the charts is LSD music period, has been since the late 60's.

[@dieselbrodeur]

[@kajetan9550]

For anybody wanting to know, the “fucking hell” part in the Hey Jude is at about 2:58min

[@Paxmax]

Many thanks to the dedicated techies and inventors out there, that has enabled us to disagree at nearly the speed of light! Awesome discussions!

[@bighanmanjam6927]

I like feeling the wubs cause that's what I enjoy 👌

[@Yu-Fei-Hung]

Talking about gear, I saw a pic of Arjen Lucassen with AKG headphones with alleged piercing high trebles register, but his music has a kind of U shaped sound. Lots of bass and trebles because the high pitched guitars and 70’s prog styled synths.

[@mrfrosty3]

I've recently noticed that some live performances on KZbin sound better than the band's album. KEXP, NPR Tiny Desk,The Basement and others sound fantastic. Its well worth checking out The Comet is Coming, Squid, Idles, The Smile, Oh Sees, Hania Rani performances on these channels.

[@barneyrubble9309]

For me its about resolution. If the artist puts a shaker on the off beat or a triangle hit then I want to hear it. Not so much it becomes distracting or so quiet it gets lost in the mix. I can live with some tonal variations but I want the details and as wide a dynamic range as possible. That's it. Now not every record will have the required resolution or dynamics due the the mixing/mastering but the system needs to have the capability to reproduce it if its there.

[@Airvaster]

A great song that shows how sensitive mics can be is Bill Evans "My Foolish Heart".

[@pitecusH]

That's a pretty cool wall behind you. I see Daft Punk, Pink Floyd, Jamiroquai, Gorillaz, Saint Motel, and those are just the ones I can immediately recognise from afar. Don't suppose we could get a short video on that, its history and why those specific pictures, could we?

[@daniwalmsley611]

This is great loved it, but I had to minimise it/listen to it in tye background because of the really quoet terrible audio/video desync. I imagine you're using zoom and just screen capturing that but if you take your camera into obs yiu can then record a local copy of your video at the same time. I know that means you have to take time to edit so I get ehy it hasn't been done thus far but if you use the zoom capture as an editting guide it won't take that long and really up the quality of the video

[@pappsa8]

Screaming Suicide is wicked! Release date about apr.24 🤘🤘

[@eddd1424]

hi peeps. artist gear is quiet sophisticated like listeners gear is. mics etc. me personally enjoys my tube amp for the guitar. some headphones can do it. some cant. stuff like violins on and on so all of us wants to buy good gear.

[@hifix-man319]

Easy I listen to my own recordings and I know how my voice sound in the studio:)

[@PassionforSound]

That works for your music, yes. If only we all could do that with all artists! Or is that even what the artists intended? Maybe they want us to hear it however we want to listen to it... 🙂

[@hifix-man319]

@@PassionforSound kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnLQopinnr5rorc

[@kvbk]

Dark Days Exit is somehwat similar to Ross's music from Friends TV series.

[@alphaniner3770]

Will Metallica release an album that rewards the people that still have a good audio system? Interesting!

[@SkywhiteChannel]

I was wondering what happen to this channel. There was no content for 4 months. I pretty much gave up on you.

[@nespressoman]

It is nice to watch a video by people I respect.

[@frederf69]

You could try getting some musicians involved in this type of discussion; for a more rounded view.

[@jimjamsam3482]

ive never met an Audiophile you listens to swans, id love to hear opinions from an audiophile's perspective. simply because alot of techniques used fly in the face of most audiophile values

[@courtneyswaby3178]

I love the music first then set about getting it to sound its best that's where the HiFi comes in. 😇

[@Dave30867]

L p records are about as close as you can get to what was originally recorded without someone editing the music with software to make it sound better to them even if they have hearing issues . You never know what is on a downloaded file .

[@HobbyTalk]

Beats by Dre

[@gerihifi]

YOU ARE ALL WRONG, I'M RIGHT 😀😃🙂 THANKS, was entertaining!! I'm still not listening to headphones and love my 2 channel setup 😉 Listen & enjoy, whatever others say, get inspired, but don't take everything for granted! Looking for more interviews... another DAC chaser, peace!

[@Mr100700551]

When u arrive When they are wrapping thinga up. .

[@brugley1090]

indeed

[@jeedmodorn5494]

Normally I'm allergic to audiophile focused recommendations. There's plenty of great music that's superbly produced. But Dark Days Exit is sooooo enjoyable...

[@mc365mc]

Anderson Paak is an Amazing Artist. He fuses Hip-Hop, R&B, with live instruments.

[@aceofspades6667]

Natalia Lafourcade - de todos las Flores

[@HotRatsAndTheStooges]

Crazy. And I wonder how much capitalism has to do with it. Yeah I'm that guy lol. But we are chasing gear for an experience which we eventually get habituated to. We are aching to spend our money because we pay for it with our time and our lives. Thus we NEED the best, we need to hear the newest in tech. Now, I'm as guilty as anyone and I fucking love technology. TV Tech, speaker tech, gpu tech, ai tech. I'm constantly at hdtv test, looking at reviews for summit fi gear I will most likely never buy. This conversation helped me understand and come to terms with that desire. VERY interesting and if you're an audio nerd you know somewhere in the back of your head that as the artist intended is definitely not "grim muii -> holo may ktw -> susvaras". They were high drugged up in the mixing studio listening to their own instruments, not caring if the drums were wack. politics plays a role. in the end what your hear is not some perfect realization of a vision that multiple musicians had together. What you get is a simulacrum of that vision. But I want to return to my point of habituation. The human mind after a certain time becomes habituated to all the tech we have - it's why we think that remastered games from 10 years ago look the same even though the old version looks horrendous compared to what we're used to now. Why? Because we are habituated to the latest tech, and our brains aren't taking in every stimulus provided by such tech and seeing as new. We are reaching back into the habit, into what our brains created, for a huge percentage of our "sensual" experiences. If you're even thinking about something aside from the music, you are hearing something different than what your gear is providing you. Just a single thought and your attention is on the inner brain and the music and the $20k music chain you have set up is just your brain recreating what you're used to. It's extremely fascinating. Proust I believe was one of the most important artists to discuss at length and dissect what habit does to us and highly recommend reading at least the first book or two of his In Search Of Lost Time. Ironically he concludes that artists are the folks in the world whom are immune as much as we can be to the effects of habit, and the artistic impulse is to destroy that habituation and see the world as it is, in other words, to be present. I'm rambling now, but there is so much to this converstion to comment on. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I expected to listen to about 10 minutes and was just glued to the screen the entire time. Very very well done to all!

[@bobb.9917]

Hmm…everyone was insightful and cool…(except for that porn video bit at the end?😂)…I am not too much of a headphone guy (ancient pair of LCD-2s which I LOVE ❤️ and glad to hear that they are still "valid"👍🏼). I am into my stereo speaker system waaaaaay more (currently soldering 4 high-end caps into my Schiit Freya+ tube stage & cutting some cooling vents into the top plate). I have a decent system…all separates, but nothing extravagant. I definitely do obsess about improving it. That said….after listening to "the panel"…I am a little grossed-out at my self…the obsession part about the minutia in sound "improvements"! (I was right there with them. Every word). The discussion makes me want to just be HAPPY with what I have, explore music more (I do that a lot now 👍🏼)….and just maybe go out and take a walk on the beach…and smell the salt air…I feel like I need to get some ick off me 🙃

[@djhmax09]

If adele's mixing engineer wanted us to listen to her albums like that, I'd probably want to stop listening to music already 😂

[@dieselbrodeur]

Interesting but far to long, try to be more to the point.

[@marcusbryant2007]

I think it's not even what the artist intended, it's what the sound engineer intended may be is more appropriate

[@SuperEnforcer88]

purple = psychedelic

[@CptMark]

Next time add Marv to the panel.

[@HobbyTalk]

Hi, artist here… I want you to enjoy what I create, I don’t care how… haha

[@PassionforSound]

Nicely said!

[@olimphus26]

I don’t care how the artist intended.

[@lextr3110]

The question is are you listening to crappy badly mixed tracks that are targeting fm radio or are you listening to correctly produced/mixed music that target a minimun level of sound quality gear.. Hate reviewer who listen to crap music ... they are recommending bad gear because they like bad gear that fix their crappy tracks .. how is this cool?