Rhythm Games Vs. Music Games

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Late last year a discussion was cropping up around a twitter poll that was sweeping the rhythm game community. In the end it boiled down to one question : Is Beat Saber not a rhythm game? Well, we'll have to find out which games are rhythm games and which games are music games then!
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[@thelelanatorlol3978]

Beatsaber is a rythym game, you play to the rhythm. Geometry dash is a music game, you have music playing while playing and it might relate to the level. Pretty simple stuff imo.

[@internetrules8522]

3:52 "... defining judgement of rhythm as requiring there is feedback other than hit and miss" one quirk of this definition is: if you just set your rhythm game to perfects only mode, you are no longer playing a rhythm game.

[@Baguette2Pain]

I would have looooooved to hear at the end of the video "exept geometry dash"

[@oscarsimasiku3959]

Music game

[@Mye_kuwu]

géometry dash is a rythme game 🤡

[@AUTISTICUS420]

​@@Mye_kuwuGeometry Dash is a platformer.

[@Mye_kuwu]

@@AUTISTICUS420 GG! you have understand the joke

[@alexevaldez]

Game dev here. The technicalities is borderline near the dreaded Rogue like vs Rogue lite vs Actual Rouge like genre problems, or heck even the new souls like debacle. An idea I think Dance Games should be added to this Music/Rhythm genre to fix this more. I can see the so-called rhythm games are more of playing an instrument of the music than dancing to it. Note: Im just a casual player of the genre but still a fan specially as a dev. This discussion is very interesting. Heres my argument. I'm surprised BS doesnt have rhythm judgement. But that being said if accuracy and flow to the form like Just Dance and so on is a rhythm game. BS should be a rhythm game. But as you stated JD and DC is borderline rhythm game, and its unfair to have it called a music game right next to Tetris effect and so on. That being said VR games like BS, Synthrider, Pistolwhip, and heck Ring Fit are more akin to Dancing than playing to the music like an instrument. Also an interesting one to add to the discussion is Dance Rush. I dont play the game but I find it interesting that it has tournaments that has a judge in it.

[@malevb695]

Personally, I used the term Konami made for some of their PS1 games: music simulation game. This would be for games where you're given the verisimilitude of being a DJ, a dancer, drumist, etc. This would distinguish from games that use rhythmic elements like Rhythm Heaven and Rhythm Thief and the like. These would not factor the more casual timings from stricter timed series like Rock Band vs GITADORA, nor does it account for games akin to music sim titles that are not simulating anything or are a mix of both in some respect (REFLEC BEAT, Osu!...), but that's been my subgenres.

[@IAmPancake]

IMO, rhythm games are any games where the primary mode of play involves inputting to the rhythm of the song playing, regardless of the granularity of the judgement. Music games are games where music is a thematic or even gameplay focus, but not on your own inputs. JSAB and Project Arrhythmia come to mind, as the level attacks you to the rhythm but your own inputs are not tested to be on the beat at all.

[@GnubVR]

time dependence is a big part of Beat Saber's scoring if you wish to get higher than 90%. There are whole papers written on this, and I would suggest reading through some if you want to know more.

[@lenppqq]

Reminds me there was a game “Mad Maestro!” on PS2 which not only gives timing judgement but also gives judgement based on if correct amount of force is used when hitting button (or swinging the conducting wand) (and yes PS2 controller actually knows how much force is used to press the buttons )

[@shoegazeluvr]

i didnt expect phigros to be mentioned, so i was suprised when it popped up! its definitely my favorite among mobile rhythm games.

[@darktetsuya]

actually a new 'rhythm' game just dropped over on XBOX, hi-fi rush! a new action-platform game from the director of resident evil it has a cel-shaded anime look right out of jet set radio, and the combat you're rewarded for matching up with the beat of the music it's a very interesting one! the practice mode that teaches you the combo system even has early/late/miss judgements.

[@losermanwins4338]

I may or may not be shuffling some video plans around to take a look at this...

[@_juliakp1_]

i would say "Rhythm Games" would be "games in which a player's actions must be directly linked to the music, and judged for it" music games would be stuff like geometry dash and, as much as i hate to admit, jsab

[@jsrsd]

I AM SO FUCKING EXCITED ABOUT YOU TALKING ABOUT AUDITION please be nice to it my little sister and i bonded over it because she was never into rythym games but i was and we both were pretty okay at audition... i'd play it again in a heartbeat

[@dr.dejnairb7022]

Music games = you play the beat of music tracks tied to a specific musical instrument. Rhythm games = action input following a music track patterned after the rhythm. So drum games are both music and rhythm games. Dance games are rhythm games. Audition is a music game although there is one game mode where you input the required arrow keys timed with the songs rhythm. Bust a Groove is a music game.

[@SpitfireSenpaii]

Oh shit he's back LET'S GOOO

[@nevernyr]

i’m happy youre back!! i had to do a takeback just to make sure this wasnt an old video i forgot to watch😅

[@reillocb]

Ahhh I've been working on something about this topic for a while! What a great idea for a vid

[@blockshift758]

All rhythm game is music game. I think a better way to separate them is by looking at the average levels. Are most of the maps on rhythm or are the music just there to vibe

[@AUTISTICUS420]

Rhythm Games: Judgment for accuracy. Music Games: Hot or miss.

[@ikaylol]

thank you SO SO much for this video!! this really needed to be explained lmao

[@Wcrklmn]

Im so glad to see that other rhythm gamers agree that Geometry Dash is NOT a rhythm game, but is a music game. I've had so many arguments in the past about Geometry dash not being a rhythm game.

[@Zkr7]

Rhythm game : hit on the note that appearing according to music, the notes are synced to music beat per beat, you must hit the notes right on timing and rhythmically Music game : you input the command according to lv's, music are just there for the vibe and the lv's follows the vibe of music Point of rhythm game is the "notes", without notes, its not a rythm game, as far its has notes that must be hit rhythmically, its still a rhythm game, even if it not having judgement or timing system other than Hit/Miss

[@paulsd9255]

By this definition does that mean Fortnite Festival takes the Guitar Heeo/Rock Band format and turns it into a rhythm game? (PERFECT judgments were added in)

[@tawmifm]

I was really expecting Rocksmith to fall on the music game side lmao. Ig I never thought too deeply about judgement mechanics in games that don't have them

[@Daggett]

Would the bonus game in Toejam & Earl: Panic on Funkotron be considered the first rhythm game?

[@paulsd9255]

Rock Band is a lot stricter than Guitar Hero with regards to keeping to the rhythm, especially since it is exceedingly anti-spam

[@haileymorris174]

Bust a groove says it's a rhythm game but with this definition it's a music game hmmm

[@chi-xu]

It is extremely funny that this video releases on the day that Hi-Fi RUSH, a action game with a rhythm mechanic, suddenly released hahahaha

[@losermanwins4338]

wait that RELEASED today? I thought it was just announced lmao

[@chi-xu]

@@losermanwins4338 It was announced and released day of, incredible surprise (and the game itself is amazing)

[@trickl4sh]

by god how do you keep a straight face for 15 seconds for that intro

[@parfein]

I've been saying this for years. great video!

[@jedkronfeld6948]

I really don't think granular rhythm judgement vs no granular judgement is a good way to determine whether a game is or isn't a rhythm game. A miss is still a judgement of your timing, and in almost all the supposed "music games" mentioned, you still have to perform to the rhythm of a beatmap in order to succeed at the game. Whether a game is more or less lenient or granular doesn't mean it somehow isn't in the same closely related family of games. I think a "music game" that wouldn't be a rhythm game would be something that doesn't necessarily have a music chart you're prescribed to follow. Rez, Wii Music, De Blob, Korg DS-10, Otocky, and MTV Music Generator come to mind.

[@Pangdori19]

To make it clear, Geometry dash is not a rhythm game

[@Sungblox]

so early that the only quality selection is 360p

[@helpimdying9421]

As an avid beat saber player, I need to inform you of an important mechanic in Beat Saber. While not specifically listed as an intended feature of the game, because of the way the game scores notes a term literally called time dependency does exist. I am not very smart so I can't explain it fully, but essentially If you do mistime the notes even by a little, it does affect your score. Not sure how this changes your opinion, but just felt like saying it. I think this is why most beat saber players get mad when people say there is no timing based scoring in the game, because it is, simply just as a hidden bi-product of the intended game mechanics.

[@GeolyteGM]

Welcome back!

[@3fs_menal_state]

To get 115 you have to hit the block to the beat. and get 100D before and after is 60D and hit in the middle for the extra 15 and has to also needs to be hit to the beat to get an extra 1 as i used a bot to see a perfect slice from a later area and it gives 114. now you think that why? but all of our vet's know that when you move forward the blocks will move with you. but when you swing You still have to time that swing to get 1 point. then 100D and 60D to get the 100 thats 101 but then in middle swing will give 14 not 15. so timing dose matter as if i could also shine some light on that on my main channel but for now my mans right it remains the BEST music game out there but if my theory is right then its 100% a rythem game ngl im fuckin dead now ☠

[@KneeVan_]

This doesn't really make a lot of sense honestly. You give a definition that most people would agree with, a game in which you do inputs in time to music, reject that definition with a completely arbitrary one requiring a timing system, then realize your definition has holes when it doesnt include Beat Saber and Guitar Hero, and so you say it has to do with whether the developer intended for you to be in time to music. That essentially just brings you back to the original definition you gave at the start, so what is even the point of this video?

[@Leo137]

check 11:27

[@KneeVan_]

@Leo137 even if it's pointless and just for fun his internal logic is still inconsistent

[@Leo137]

@@KneeVan_ the way of how is see it is just a dichotomy. Talking about the topic in two different ways: a very literal by-definition explanation and a more practical applied sense of what he thinks matter most

[@Goatgarien]

I think it's fine for him to give a differentiation between music and rhythm games, and from what I've heard, his definition is consistent with what I've seen talked about in multiple rhythm game discords. But it did annoy me when he ended up going back on it for kinda no reason just because 2 games don't fall under it. rhythm game = music game with judgements (more than just hit/miss, as said in the video). That's it.

[@Fulmine243]

Let's gooo!!!

[@nessisasquid]

music games is the same

[@RR-ne3lb]

8:27 gave me a seizure im not sure i dont remember

[@fivianclark5617]

Im quite curious if something like geometry dash counts as a music game at all

[@losermanwins4338]

I had considered including Geometry Dash in this video but was having trouble gauging how much it was actually synced to the music. Not only that but some levels I've seen don't seem to go to music at all. So I left it off the list. I think it would be a music game maybe 🤔

[@Zkr7]

Its a music game

[@Goatgarien]

being wishy washy about a definition doesn't help anything. Who cares what the devs intended when you have a good definition already. rhythm game = music game with judgements (more than just hit/miss, as said in the video) that's it. if beat saber and guitar hero are just music games, who cares? The word used to define the game genre shouldn't influence whether people find it fun or not, or whether they should be playing it.

[@thedinosaurz]

geometry dash