LET'S TALK TECH-THROTTLE BODY MODS-WORTH IT?

CAN YOU IMPROVE THE AIRFLOW OF A STOCK THROTTLE BODY WITH PORTING, WITHOUT CHANGING THE THROTTLE BORE SIZE?

[@growasetalready]

Hey Richard maybe you didn't see my response, the port is called the pcv bubbler it's wide open no valve, it's at bottom most point of my PD manifold and the install directions say to loop it back to a port at rear of the blower. The only ports are on intake elbow and the bypass valve is external hooked to booster. I don't understand the design it appears to me the pressurized manifold is dumping boost back to the intake elbow constantly. The only thing I can think is maybe the designer is thinking oil can't pool in the manifold pan if it constantly basically has a drain under pressure back to the blower elbow. Definitely seems like a waste of boost if I'm correct and I wonder how much.

[@richardholdener1727]

I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR BLOWER OR MOTOR IS , BUT I WOULDN'T WANT A LEAK THERE

[@growasetalready]

@@richardholdener1727 it's a ROUSHcharger innercooled M90 kit on a 2007 mustang gt that came off a 2007 427R stage 3 roush mustang. They were 435hp/400tq on 5psi, I called Roush they found an old manual and confirmed you hook the hose direct from manifold to the elbow. Roush said the pcv bubbler's sole purpose was to prevent oil from pooling in the bottom of the manifold with blowby so it vents the manifold back to the intake elbow constantly. I don't run pcv so I'm capping that port and plugging the manifold. I wonder how much boost that was bleeding off.

[@hondatech5000]

Fill it in and make a nice taper, flatten the bar, thin the blade, round the face of the blade leave the back flat so just one edge don’t deform the diameter of the blade, counter sink the screws and flush them. Radius the intake opening larger than the back side of the tb and do the reverse taper. Worth about a piston flip.😂

[@bobgyetvai9444]

So you say but you cant keep the details right either 🤣

[@normanmadden]

To improve airflow on a stock throttle body; are we allowed to use boost? /s

[@richardholdener1727]

WINNING

[@erwinnijs1]

Flow capacity is not only a function of diameter but also of length. So if you can decrease the length of a restriction by only increasing the diameter in certain parts, you can improve flow.

[@markmainse3387]

Any time you can induce laminar flow is good for moving air. I suspect it's moot if the heads can't flow the gains. Having a tb size "too" small could be a good problem on forced induction applications because the pressure drop on the outlet should cool the air on the outlet if you're having hot IAT problems.

[@jimmyfreeze3782]

At the beginning this sounds promising, but turns out to be 1 hour of useless information. Forget TB overall inside diameter, the throttle shaft outside diameter is the MOST important part of TB porting. Do a comparison test on throttle shaft diameter reduction....for example, Katech is the best, soler has a different china design that doesn't go as far to the edge. And if you want to compare aftermarket throttle bodies, list the diameter of the throttle shaft. Talking about the inside diameter is just wasting time for idiots that think bigger is better.

[@richardholdener1727]

if you think throttle shaft plays a bigger part in airflow than ID-you have not been on a flow bench

[@jimmyfreeze3782]

@@richardholdener1727 Whatever you can flow on your bench, I WILL flow more. Granted real world power will be reduced each time I hog my hole out more than you. Stop hogging the hole and learn how to read turbulent flow with your flow bench.

[@FeetusMcCarland]

Richard have you considered putting a small camera and LED light inside the intake manifold? Warped Perception Channel did it on a Supra. It would be interesting to see you try it in an LS on the Dyno.

[@richardholdener1727]

I HAVE ON A NITROUS RUN

[@jesseg573]

I have a 05 5.3 stock dbw can i bolt on a amazon dbw 92mm tb ? Description says ls1/ls23/4/5/6

[@richardholdener1727]

Remove your stock throttle body and measure the opening of your intake-is it 92mm?

[@jesseg573]

@@richardholdener1727 the thing is i dont it rn its @ the shop, its the original stock intake manifold that comes on 4.8-5.3 those like 76mm i wanted to know if the ls2 throttle body would fit

[@FeetusMcCarland]

I've modified an LS1 TB for my father's turbo 6.0. I spun the TB on the lathe and cleaned up the entry. We didn't do a before and after so I can't comment on how well it worked out it looked good.

[@atomik_squirrel2393]

I have an ls6 mani that I epoxy poured the top and bored tf out of the snout to make it as straight and true as possible entering in. I can now fit my fist in easily. Then, removed all three posts in the middle. I’m waiting to put it on and tune my vette

[@bluehills38]

Richard does altitude play a part ? I live at 7600’ and when I put a 92 mm with adapter on my LM7 slightly built it made a significant difference in low end hard throttle 🤷‍♂️ Thanks for all you do much appreciated sir 🗽

[@richardholdener1727]

throttle bodies don't add low speed torque, airflow needs increase with engine speed. A bigger TB feels snappier because of greater airflow for any given part throttle opening

[@bobgyetvai9444]

Theres Much More to this than total cfm . Absolutes dont dominate the tb functions in the driving experiance as to max wot flow . No more is wanted for taper exiting than 7 deg that is perfect when done and lines up on the truck 78mm intake opening perfectly . This is best pressure recovery possible . The radius you spoke of Richard is useless on entry side . Why would you want a radius when youre already inside a tube if you count the 4 inch ducting as you should ?? Bernoulli has already figured that out as to best angle possible in forming a venturi . Note there are No curvatures in a perfect venturi . But this is only half the solution and to do it right the constriction is leaning where the throttle blade seats at idle . Somebody asked already about thinning the blade you said there were flex concerns as for the whole dam thing has to be thinner . Not true . Only the edges of both ends of the blade need to be knife edged on both sides . And slab sideing throttle shafts has been around forever . This is a tb That Works and will deliver the goods from idle to wot plus mpg on them all from a 4.8l stock with no gearing on up through the 6.0l . This is what works and theres no such thing as too big of a air filter PERIOD !!! Ps -- Richard a 78mm ported vs the 92mm on the dragstrip has delivered Better ET and MPH on a stock 5.3 in a truck w 3.73s and TBSS intake as well as one that was cammed . The Real World is Different than a dyno . I sell alot of the porting jobs based on this reality and i dont advertise or convince any of them . Word travels and It simply works .

[@richardholdener1727]

Where do I start? So you are advertising increased mpg and from throttle body porting? A thinner blade does indeed flex more than a thicker blade. Delivers the goods from idle to wot? The real world isn't different than a dyno cell-the only way you can improve mph with a throttle body change at the drag strip is to improve power-that shows on the dyno. I believe you can improve the flow of a stock throttle body and make it better, but trying to convince me that your throttle body that flows less will somehow make more power, that is a tough sell.

[@JCM111]

Richard have you compared 3 bolt vs 4 bolt throttle bodies on the same engine/tbss intake? I want to know how much power is lost from the adapter plate. Because the Xlink adapter is expensive and I’ve heard it’s complicates the tuning.

[@richardholdener1727]

of different sizes?

[@erniesarracino8415]

What you think new mustang with 2 think we go to the carburetor deal and have like a 4 barrel intake and have 4

[@crushthequarter6863]

I have a LS Iron 408 with Mamo Ported Fast 90 w/NW 90 TB - Would it be worth much gains to go to a FAST 102/102 TB. Currently it slings down 530rwhp with the converter locked.

[@richardholdener1727]

yes gains on that

[@creverett9]

sounds like a good video idea!

[@bobgyetvai9444]

Radiusing that surface before that bore is a turd . Bernoullis principle is the answer . Both sides to correct dimmensions is the answer . Spacers are snake oil . The front of the factory 78mm tb will require some epoxy repairs to hold the correct shape . Done correctly EVEN ON A STOCK ENGINE the results are Dramatic !!! Its more than just a flow increase both at high rpm And low rpm , the throttle response is Wonderfully Touchy . MPGs are Far Better . So is a ported MAF , but Watch Your Plugs !!! Everything that connects to the tb ducting is all about Pressure , but the Flow Velocity must be Tuned for the MAF . Theres no such thing as too big a air filter . Insulated cold air tube is worth the effort as well . All of this on a stock engine Helped .

[@richardholdener1727]

so a ported throttle body helps on a stock motor? I'd like to see the data

[@bobgyetvai9444]

@@richardholdener1727 i drive my data daily . I see you deleted my first reply . Richard there are those of us just as commited as you are that have done this stuff all of our lives and are even older than you are . We listen to you so please consider what we offer to help as well . Bernoulli found 20* in and 7* out with the sealing edge on the throttle plate meeting surfate left untouched is What Works with the angles proceeding from those rings untouched in the bore . When its Right the difference IS Dramatic . Locally i have stock LQ4s getting 19 and 20 mpgs in Box Trucks , 16ft. Heavily Loaded with 4.10s and dualls . The knife edge of the throttle plate isnt hard to do if You Pay Attention to what your doing with a smaller fine file . Thats the mpg with slabbed shaft for top end . This works for mechaicals as well as drive by wire . The 92mm will have cruise control issues however with DOD . The ported 78mm tb helps even the 4.8 so you may want to rethink the dyno only validation . I do these around my town and word of mouth bussiness is Good . Construction contractors Hate spending money on their trucks . Yet they especially line up to see me . Id say thats endorsement enough . If it works stock application it also works for hot rods . They line up too .

[@richardholdener1727]

Deleted Comment? I understand about intro and departure angles and the attending increase in airflow. The question (I feel) is not can we improve airflow, the question is (is the throttle body the current restriction in power?) If the throttle body flow rate can more than support the current power level, how does more flow equate to more power. The throttle body does not represent a restriction to the stock power level, and certainly does not at part throttle. I just want to understand how what you are reporting goes against every flow and dyno test I have run on engine and chassis dynos. Is this just a "it feels better or hits the converter harder?" situation, or do you have dyno verified changes? If so, I would like to see the data. thnx

[@bobgyetvai9444]

@@richardholdener1727 youve forgotten these things have TPS and Map sensors with computers overseeing them just off idle as well as the concept of pressure recovery in the plenum . Fact is we drive the Data of the Laws of Physics . I get 32 hwy / 27 city mileage actual data from the work ive done . Thats figures you dream of from your truck !!! The throttle plate fooling the computer because of its efficency in the venturi constriction i form is/works alot like a 30* intake seat vs a 45* intake seat for the actual low lift flow increase seen without the drawbacks with increased lift at the valve . This is well proven . You and everybody else being let in on this info IS THE DATA . Ive told you how so replicate it . You ssking for " data" as if we have a dyno sounds like seeing the first air scoop and demanding data that colder air contains more oxygen per volume from the avgerage guy . Like he is really supposed to supply you with that LMAO !!! Either you can grasp the concept with what youve been told or you cant . Driveability and BSFC are also factors !!! The only thing you are partially considering is the increase in area at WOT . Yet even then youre ignoreing the step Chevrolet made in going from the 78 mm to the 90 or 92 mm whichever it is on the smaller displacement trucks . Right there proves you wrong . Thats Chevrolets data as well .

[@bryanbowman9506]

A question. What about a dual quad Twin turbo SBC ? Better throttle response? Less back pressure on intake? Has it Ben done?

[@richardholdener1727]

that won't change throttle response or back pressure

[@punishergto5182]

I bought a Holley 92 cable tb. I havnt ran it yet but have friends with a Holley, Edelbrock and eBay special. they seem to whistle part throttle and tip in. Do they need to be ported? or need to be tuned? adjust the throttle stop?

[@richardholdener1727]

NEVER HEARD THE WHISTLE

[@aarontovar8769]

Have a 102mm Holley throttle body aswell mine whistles but haven’t figured out a solution yet

[@justindillon2691]

@richardholdener I have a gen v l83 with a custom grind BTR cam, Whipple 2.9 and lt4 fuel system. While dyno tuning we couldn't get my 100mm throttle body to work correctly. It idled poorly and revved slow. Is this something you've encountered? I used my factory throttle body and it works great!

[@richardholdener1727]

who was tuning it?

[@justindillon2691]

@richardholdener1727 a performance shop near me called Omega performance! I also contacted Soler performance (the company I bought the throttle body from) about the issue and they said they haven't had that issue before but they had never tried a throttle body that size on a 5.3 either. Are the gains I would see even be worth the trouble? Thanks!

[@richardholdener1727]

a bigger throttle body helps PD blowers if the inlet is also sized for the tb

[@justindillon2691]

@richardholdener1727 I believe the inlet on the whipple 2.9 is 112mm so the question is how do I get a bigger throttle body to work? I made 550whp but I feel like I'm missing out on some power or at the very least some better throttle response!

[@richardholdener1727]

seems like a tune issue with DBW (who makes the TB?)

[@JoeyFortner5]

It’s 1:37 here

[@500hardcore]

Haha thanks

[@bobgyetvai9444]

Bernouli already figured this out bud . It also helps the entire operateing range of the engine . Big Time !!! Ive tested practically every shape you can think of includeing ones you wouldnt consider . Dont be all worried about radius . They hurt more than it will help !!! Angles matter . Helmotz is the smarts for that plenum . Laws of Physics are never wrong properly applied .

[@ByGraceThroughFaith777]

ok, but you didn't say what would be best

[@bobgyetvai9444]

@@ByGraceThroughFaith777 read on .

[@MonzaRacer]

Richard I missed this one but I believe the LS4 intake and throttle body proved conclusively that throttle body mods IE size do make a difference. Nuff said

[@richardholdener1727]

the lack of power from thels4 intake is not related to throttle body size

[@ronnieblauvelt8812]

Throttle body spacer ?