Rieti 1986 - Sebastian Coe - m.1500 - 3'29"77

[@richardtuson605]

Still the only person to go sub 3:30 and sub 1:42.

[@simonedwards5564]

THAT'S TRUE 💯,,,,,,

[@eluceanlestelle]

That's true

[@larega66]

Lord Coe my favourite!!

[@villagerintheshire]

Great point

[@itsinthetreesitscoming7431]

This was an astonishing performance - the event had moved on (time-wise) from his generation and he was able to respond and go with it when several years past his prime...

[@deano27671]

A great example of world class pacing is EL G's Mile wr of 3:43.13, where he had drafting to the bell with 440yds of 55.6, 56.2, 56.1 & 55.2. For a WR at 1500 or Mile drafting is not expected past the bell. Sometimes however the pacing is of no use at all if they go off too fast or they don't keep the pace consistent. Coe was the victim of some pretty horrendous pacing in some of his WR attempts. In his first 1500 WR his first 2 laps were 54.4 (25.9 for 200m!), then 58.8, then he was left solo.

[@bwhitt2010]

excellent comment; as a former runner, I know that many, many of Seb Coe's races have him in the 2nd to 3rd lanes which means he is running much further than the front runner on the inside of the track; this is tactical, positioning himself for the final kick or so as not to get boxed in. He has lightning speed when motivated. I think one of the best and most confident racers of all time; I think if he had a pacer like you say at 55 sec laps he would be able to run with any world record pace.

[@redd605]

Tom Byers,was his best pace maker,

[@villagerintheshire]

I was a teenager who'd just taken up running at the time (because of Coe) and thought I knew everything about him back then ... but somehow I missed this race. Never realized until this upload that he got so close to Aouita's WR. Watching it now, it cuts deep to see how close he came - always been 100% invested in him and it never diminishes ...

[@simonedwards5564]

FAIR PLAY TO YOU SIR 🤪🤪😊 WIKID-

[@andrewallen1083]

It came right at the end of his career.Most fans missed it.

[@AmandaFletcherLotusVilllaSpain]

Coe had to chop his stride as cheshire pulled in too quick in front of Coe. You can see this on the video. he then pulled wide and lost even more time. he wa without doubt the best middle distance runner of his time.

[@simonedwards5564]

COE Lost 5 tenths of a second here, HALF A SECOND!!!!!! 3:29'/3:29 '2- Was definitely on cards ,,,,,, I still believe the Kenyan cut up COE like he was ordered to do so JUST LIKE IN @1981s SHAMBOLICY 1500m IN STOCKHOLM BEAUTIFUL STADIUM, JAMES ROBINSON DRAGGING POOR COE THROUGH 400,m 51,7/ 800,m 1:47'7 !!!!!;;; COE RAN 52,7/800'm @1:49'2 !!!!!!!!!_ AND ,,41 YEARS LATER,,, TODAY STILL THE FASTEST FIRST 800m EVER AN 1500m IN HISTORY!!!!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@joeblow4353]

That was such dumb move by Cheshire...just so impossibly dumb and selfish. He just wanted to temporarily lead Coe, to feed his dumb ego, knowing that it wouldn't last for more than 10 seconds, and didn't mind getting in Coe's way and slowing him down. That's what someone with an IQ of 75 does.

[@gpc31]

@deano27671: Thanks for the heads-up on letsrun! It feels great to finally see this race, kind of like a lost Rembrandt in the attic. Deano, you were right...what the #### was Cheshire doing/thinking? The disruption cost Coe half a second and the record. Still astonishing to see Coe's acceleration off that pace with 350 to go, like the Coe of old, not the old Coe at age 29/30. pareyson71 -- I can't thank you enough for posting this. It's tremendous. Thank you again.

[@dubyabee5]

Sebastian Coe is a beast! Thanks for the upload!

[@marlin804]

Deano!! Yup....I agree with your assessment. I think under 3:27 would have been out of reach of Coe as El G and Legat have done. However, put Coe against them in an Olympic Final and thats a different story. His finishing kick and dominance in 80 & 84 are just breathtaking. In 84 he toyed with the field....it was a joke! His speed (Which all others we talk about lacked) would make it almost impossible to beat him in a tacticle race. Especially one with heats!!

[@deano27671]

The fastest 1500 I can recall where the athlete has led every step of the way without even a suicidal rabbit miles in front benefitting nothing, is Bayi's WR of 3:32.2 at the 74 Commonwealths.

[@GeoAce777]

Bayi likely has the fastest unrabitted mile or 1500 😏

[@TheSecondWitness]

As always, Coe #1

[@mikem9252]

james mays of TEXAS TECH did a great job of being the rabbit - coe just amazing - what can u say - talent + guts

[@simonedwards5564]

Yeah FUCK YOU JAMES ROBINSON!!!!!!!!!! DELIBERATELY DESTROYED COES CHANCES TWICE 1981,1984 !!!!!!!!

[@deano27671]

In his book he said he was ready for a long drive as he approached the bell, when Chesire came in front of him & started slowing down almost immediately. Coe, realising Chesire wasn't going to drop out & worried that the pace was dropping, then run outside him on the curve, running an extra couple of metres. Coe believed that whole incident cost him 0.5 & the WR.

[@eluceanlestelle]

That's true , the way Chesire ran costed Coe the world record .

[@drrsc]

the antics of pacemakers, that's what peter coe called it. so many times it can be seen when the pacers do crazy stuff. too bad for coe, ovett. I think, if the rabbits of their era had been up to the level of rabbits today, they might still have a record or two. interesting that this was exactly one second quicker than ovett's 1500m wr on the same track.

[@sunnydays5581]

Bram Som, the perfect rabbit - everytime

[@KingLiopleurodon]

This is Coe's last true world-dominating run. He absolutely should have had the WR here. OK Chesire impeded Coe marginally, but still, what a run. I wonder if, of all the numerous races he ran, he has regrets about this one. In almost every race, except the notorious Moscow 800, he has a clear plan and gives his all and when he lost, it wasn't because of bad prep or tactics. We also see classic James Mays with his TEXAS uniform and behind Coe, Sydney Maree with that relentless economical action in 2nd place.

[@simonedwards5564]

You are sooooo right especially when we see what mo did and now Whitman in this PANDEMIC year running faster than ovett,cram,or COE ever ran!!!!!!! Absolutely justifies what say !!!!!!!!!!

[@deano27671]

@marlin804 I agree. I think somewhere in the region of 3:27.5 - 3:28.5. If he'd had someone capable of taking him to 1100m (as EL G had) in 2:33 (55.5, 1:51.0) and perhaps Ovett still with him with 200m to go, then I think he could have broken 3:28.

[@deano27671]

@gpc31 He was actually in the best form he'd been in since LA 84. He'd won the European 800 about 10 days earlier, then ran a tactically inept 1500 to lose to Cram. He was angry with himself, feeling he should have won it, and his father told him to go and run the definitive 1500 in Rieti. I agree, but for Chesire slowing him down and forcing him wide, I think he'd have run 3:29.2 for a new WR. With that in mind, he should have run quite a bit faster at his peak in 81!

[@LPCLASSICAL]

When Cram set his 1500 WR he went through the bell in 2.36. Coe here went through in 2.34.5 - of course he did not have Aouita breathing down his neck but still he must have been kicking himself that he didn't get the WR this day. Several years past his best and 3.29 eh - should have done better earlier in his career.

[@simonedwards8888]

Stuart definitely!!!!!

[@scrumpymanjack]

@Stuart: Yeah....total underachiever!

[@jeremyhomewood9573]

@@scrumpymanjack heheh!!!!!!!!

[@simonedwards5564]

Poor Steve SCOTT??? The very first time he raced coe (a jumped up 800m runner) was in the 1979 golden MILE....and right up to the very last time Scott and coe raced was here in rieti 7 LONG years AFTER.....And this was how seb bade farewell not just to Steve SCOTT but the world ....his last truly FANTASTIC season.....steve Scott only beat coe when he was sick in 1983 when he didn't know he TOXOPLASMOSIS!!!!!!! BASICALLY scott always..ALWAYS saw the back NEWBOLD COE !!!!!!!!

[@gowers1972]

Coe would have surely broken the world record in this race had he not been cut off going into the final lap.

[@deano27671]

Great! I've been waiting to see the whole of this race for 25 years! Many thanks!

[@mrDoveRock]

Me to .

[@booklover3959]

Since Lord Coe ran his phenomenal world record and personal best in the 800m in Italy and this personal best in the 1500m also in Italy, I have a scientific theory-- he saw a beautiful Italian girl in the inner field and thought he was chasing her. Either that or the Italian air agrees with him. Let me know what you think.

[@lucavandi1]

In memory of Valter Merlo 7° in this run with 3'39"57.... ciao Valter

[@simonsedwards1513]

Valter? WALTER MERLO was a FANTASTIC runner,, He ran 3k in 7:47/ 5000 in 13:37 / checked him out on you tube!!!! Fantastic picture of him chasing Stefano mie he was a great athlete,thanks for mentioning him to us !!!!!!! WHAT A TALENT HE WAS !!!!!!!!!

[@shangrila73eldorado]

coe and prefontaine were the best! great heart in both of them!

[@deano27671]

Very uneven splits and he had no drafting for 300m on the 2nd lap due to the rabbit being more than 4m ahead, and no drafting for 100m towards the end of the 3rd lap. He also had to run wide on the penultimate curve to pass Chesire, who had suddenly slowed at the bell, meaning he ran an extra 2m. That in itself probably cost him the WR that day. If one then evens out the pace and adjusts for 400m with no drafting & running wide, we get a time of about 3:27.8 - 3:28.2.

[@deano27671]

Thanks. Yes, even in some record attempts he ran quite wide on the outside edge of lane 1. Not only did that make him run several m further than necessary but it also meant he wasn't benefitting from the drafting that running directly behind a rabbit affords one. He could have saved a couple of seconds in his 1st Mile WR (Zurich) in 81 if he'd run behind the rabbit rather than wide and to the side of him on the first 2 laps. I calculated in the 1500 European final 86 that he ran about 1525m!

[@simonedwards5564]

THAT IS CORRECT DEANO!!! And running 3:31''9 in that 1981 Stockholm pacing fiasco shows he had way under 3:30 in those legs,,,,,5 years later, two Olympics gold's,,,TOXO,BLOODY PLASMOSIS,, pulling out of the commonwealth games (1986) him and his dad getting beaten up by that monster,,,,ok SEB SMASHED him with a stick,,,(and good luck to him) watching cram destroy him and his mile world record,,, and still Coe brought the sub 3:30 home,,,,,,, Further more I have no doubts that SEB would have run. 3:46 this night at rieti too as SEB was capable of running 3:44/4:45 in 1981,,,,,and had he not been so life threateningly sick in 1983(1:44'9_indoor ,800m_1000m,2:18-strolling!!!!!!!!!) COE WOULD HAVE BETTER,D EVERYTHING HE DID IN 1981!!!!!!!!! Coming back in 1984 SHOWS THAT EMPHATICALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@deano27671]

@ollie705 Coe's 800 split was actually 1:51.9/1:52.0, as he was a few metres behind the first pacer, who went 1:51.05. I think his 800 split was bang on the money. What stopped him running faster still was the first lap he covered in 54.0! That's too fast. It was followed by a 58.0, which represents a 4.0 sec difference, v. uneconomic pacing. 2 laps of 56.0 would have given him a lot more left at the finish. Also, he got no drafting from 450 to 750m, which lost him about 0.75.

[@deano27671]

If your comments are related to his Zurich Mile WR in 81, then yes of course he didn't run 25m extra. I wasn't referring to that race. He did however run the first 5 laps wide in that Zurich mile if you'd care to take a look at it on here, not the first 4, although I agree that the first bend is difficult not to run wide in. He was not in lane 2, agreed, but on the mid to outside of the lane. I'd say that was between 1.5 & 2m extra for each of the 5 bends, which = 7.5-10m further run.

[@charlesthorndike2702]

If Coe had ran a good paced 1500m in Rieti in his 1981 season, I am certain he could have done a 3:28 low

[@deano27671]

Yes, he said Chesire going in front of him just before the bell and slowing it down for 30m and causing Coe to run wide on the curve, cost him 0.5 and the WR. I think in Zurich 84 he was capable of 3:28 low and in 81, probably faster.

[@figo88figo]

i see you are saying the same things i was going to say.

[@aldopedroso6212]

@@rogerfederer8117 He had all 4 in 80 and 81. Lost the mile to Ovett minutes after setting the 1000 but got it back in '81. Embarrass himself in Seoul... thats what they said he was going to do in Los Angeles. Don't see how he could have din. any worse than Crabb.

[@owenthackeray4195]

Coe untouchable in his day.

[@deano27671]

I think you have got my comments and 2 different races mixed up. The 25 metres further ran I referred to was in the 1986 European Championships, where he certainly was in lane 2 or wider for most of the bends. I stick by my calculation of c. 25m extra run. He certainly ran about 15m further than Cram in that race, and had he not wasted energy running so wide, should have beaten Cram in that final.

[@Yoga-retreatsInfo]

HI DEANO, there is a calculation for this but you need to know the width of the lanes. It is a standard width for international tracks. Then of course it is just 2 * π * R, . if a runner runs 500mm wider ( on the outside ) then this increases R by 1m, which equates to 3.14m only, per lap. IF they are say 1m outside other runners, then this would equate to an increase in R by 2m, which is 2 x 3.14m ... is 6.28m per lap. So 25m, just over 1m wide for all the race, well the bends. It maybe of interest to know, a 400m track is in fact measured, 300mm inside the first lane, as it is there where they expect runners to actually run. You can not run on the metal ring on the inside ! obviously. I think you may be a tad biased for Coe, who I believe was the most gifted runner the UK has ever seen. His tactics sucked, in many races

[@sergioramonp]

Sin duda Coe corrió una gran carrera el corredor africano que se supone es la 2da liebre realiza una interrupción y disminuye frenando a Sebastian Coe y obligando a rebasarlo saliendo de su carril . estoy descuerdo que perdió medio segundo mínimo que representan unas 50 centésimas por lo que su tiempo debió ser de 329 ,20 o 30 y recuperaba el Récord en esta prueba. Si observamos el Récord de 329,46 de Said Aouita vemos que su segunda liebre abandona la carrera dejando totalmente libre a Aouita y sin generar ningún incidente . Gracias por todos los buenos comentarios anteriores que me permitieron tener una vision clara de este hecho.

[@deano27671]

Agree. In his book Coe said that Chesire slowed down in front of him, causing Coe to slow at the bell and then have to run wide on the curve to pass him. He reckons it cost him half a second.

[@deano27671]

The benefits of rabbits are 2fold.1- it helps psychologically to have someone in front of you setting a constant & most efficient pace. That means 56,56,56,42 if your aim is to break 3:30. 2- being close behind the rabbit, 2m, gives a drafting benefit. This has been calculated to be worth c.1.0 sec per 400m. So at the end of a 56.0 solo lap an athlete will be feeling the same as if he'd run a 55.0 being drafted by a rabbit. So the ideal is efficient pacing & drafting for as long as possible.

[@deano27671]

Yes I agree with you. Unfortunately the commentators don't help, often criticising front running from those who had a good shot at winning. E.g. Coe in 78 Europeans. The 1.0 sec is the generally held rule of thumb for drafting on the athletic message boards. 0.25 per 100m is only 1.5m or a single stride. That sounds about right to me.

[@deano27671]

In his 81 race in Stockholm the rabbit, Robinson went off like it was an 800 race and was already more than 3m ahead of Coe by 250m. Coe ran the rest of the race solo to all intents and purposes with 52.4, 56.7, 59.2, 43.6 for 3:31.9. With even pace and drafting to the bell this works out at c. 3:28.3. This race in Rieti was also not well paced, with Coe running 54.0 followed by 58.0 & then 56.1.

[@deano27671]

@marlin804 Just quoting Coe in his book. I agree its not obvious he had to slow down at bell, but apparently Coe was all ready for a final surge when Chesire came past, got in front & then slowed, although hard to tell from the angle. Coe hesitated for a few strides before deciding to go past him on the bend, causing him to run slightly wide. Perhaps the slowing down& the running 1-2m extra is what he was alluding to. Certainly the uneven pace and lack of drafting would have slowed it a bit.

[@deano27671]

That night in Zurich, with decent drafted pacing to the bell and running on the curve rather than wide for 5 bends, Coe should have run at least 3:45.0

[@GeoAce777]

everyone's fidgety at the starting line save for Sir Sebastian Coe 😏

[@LPCLASSICAL]

Even in his PR Coe was poorly paced. His rabbits always seemed to run a 1st lap around 54. I just realised that Maree and Scott were both in this race. Glad to know they saw the sight of Coe's heels pulling away from them. I suppose Scott and Maree were both past their best.

[@deano27671]

Maree and Scott were both the same age as Coe, born 56. Maree ran his fastest 1500 just one year before, 85, as did Scott.

[@simonedwards5564]

@@deano27671 Maree ran the exact same time as Coe 😄 (3:29'77) a year earlier!!!!!! Maree should have been left a second behind Coe__+ same as their mile. times ,

[@itsinthetreesitscoming7431]

Coe was years past his prime here...

[@lucadisanto8130]

La corsa di SEBASTIAN Coe è meravigliosa, ma anche Stefano Mei dice la Sua..... Top

[@figo88figo]

coe's fitness is not at the top of his game... what does his dad say in the book? guy should have run 326

[@simonsedwards1513]

W Lee definitely, most of the DEFINITELY, seb in 1981 ( especially) was capable of much faster than 3:28"!!!!!!!! You are spot on!!!!!!!!!

[@anthonyforder8501]

@@simonsedwards1513 if overt and covert raced each other they would have done 3 28

[@deano27671]

I also believe it caused Coe to over-compensate and go too fast in the 1st 100m of that last lap, which was 13.6, & more like 13.4 with the extra distance run. That's 53.6 pace in a 55.2 last 400m. If he'd had 55.5, 1:52.0 & 2:34.0 with good drafting to that point, I think he'd have run 3:28.6 - 3:28.8 that day. If it had been at his peak in late 84 or 81, I think sub 3:28 was possible. Unfortunately there really wasn't anyone else around who could or would have given him the necessary pace.

[@charlesthorndike2702]

Last 400m in 55.3 Last 300m in 41.7

[@APBCTechnique]

*Coe’s last decent run here, shame he missed the WR* *I think in 84 after the Olympics at the Zurich meet he was capable of running a sub **3:28**. I’ve never seen anyone finish so fast on a **3:32** 1500m pace. It was a WR attempt ruined again by idiot James Robinson*

[@charlesthorndike2702]

Yup, that race was INSANE. His last-lap splits: Last 400m in 53.1 Last 300m in 39.0 Last 200m in 25.7 Last 100m in 12.4

[@deano27671]

It was actually James Robinson that fluffed up the pacing, not Mays. But I agree

[@lucavandi1]

Il sesto di questa gara sarei io in 3'39"28.... Luca Vandi

[@marlin804]

Not sure if that would have caused Coe .5 seconds with Chesire doing what he did. Maybe .2 seconds at best as he didn't have to slow down. However, look at how strong he finished. If this was a mile, I think 14 seconds for him in the last 100 was easily doable!! That would have been 3:44 flat or so....pretty darn impressive!!

[@deano27671]

That equates to 1.1-1.4 secs. Perhaps more significantly, Coe was never directly behind the pacer, but always wide on his shoulder, meaning he got no drafting benefit. Being drafted (running directly behind someone within c 2-3m) is generally regarded as saving an athlete 1 sec per lap. In 1500 & Mile races, it is generally expected to have this drafting to the bell. In Coe's case in Zurich he received no drafting, costing him possibly 3 secs.

[@Yoga-retreatsInfo]

hi Deano, yes 1 sec per lap is the accepted drafting figure for a runner, running @ 4.30 per mile. However at faster speeds, 3.47 per mile, say 7m/s, it is nearer to 1.2 secs. per lap

[@gpc31]

@lucavandi1: Bravo...E 'bello sentirsi da un corridore di classe mondiale. Please excuse my poor Italian.

[@andrewallen4959]

Top top runner

[@deano27671]

Yes, I agree. It's not totally clear on the video, as we see it from behind, but in his book Coe believes the whole incident cost him half a second and the world record. He also ran that next 100m split too fast, probably trying to over compensate for the loss of time at the bell, in 13.4 (53.6 400pace), which would have been worth more like 13.1 with the extra distance run. That wouldn't have helped in getting the record.

[@marlin804]

I personally think Coe in 81 could have run 3:28.5 if he had better pacing. Maybe slightly faster if Ovett was in the race with him. What many people fail to realize is that El Goerrouj, Legat, and the few others who have run under 3:29 did not have the speed of Coe. What a truly remarkable runner!!!

[@mathematics5573]

Thomas Marlin, I agree. If a young Coe had trained to run 3.26, had raced HeG, Coe could have beaten HeG. Coe had kick and stamina.

[@mathematics5573]

Richard Milliken. I don't agree. I have met Ovett and Cram and other Olympians and former WR holders. They all said, the times they ran, were what they were aiming for then. In modern times, they would have trained harder to run faster. Coe's and Ovetts stamina was as good or better than HeG's.

[@mathematics5573]

@Richard Milliken You are welcome to think that. I have enough respect for Ovett and Steve Cram to respect their self belief that they could have run faster if they had aimed for it.

[@mathematics5573]

@Richard Milliken the fact the seb coe did a 3.29 when he was way past his best years, and he had lost his 800 and 400m speed, does say that with modern training , he could have run much faster, and challenged the current world record. I have heard him say that himself

[@mathematics5573]

@Richard Milliken Do something useful. Use ECOSIA as your search engine. it plants tropical trees as you search the internet, to try and stop climate change. The more you search the more it plants. Instead of worrying about a runner from 40 years ago. Help it get to 1billion trees. ASAP

[@ericsolomon7149]

The freaking camera couldn't keep up with him!

[@deano27671]

@lucavandi1 I've not heard of Valter Merlo before. Was his career cut short? Did he die?

[@AmandaFletcherLotusVilllaSpain]

I agree he ran further than the rabbit for the first 4 bends. But he was not in lane two. If he had been, he would have been running 7.67m further per lap. However as he was still in lane 1, we can estimate he ran about 3.35m further on per lap, for these two laps. this equates to much much less than your 25m, in fact less than 10m. To answer the question, yes he did run a little further but no more than 8 metres.

[@alexwirtz9497]

Which is still a full second at that lick.

[@deano27671]

@dunsford Yes, I think with an interrupted 82 & 83 he'd still be the 800 and 1000 world record holder.

[@deano27671]

@@rogerfederer8117 LOL. There are many people on here who like discussing possibilities. If you don't like it or want to get involved with such discussions then move on.

[@darrenshaw767]

@@rogerfederer8117 boooooring. Shame your not as classy as your name sake. What a sad fucker you are 😎