Rings of Power S2 FINALE BREAKDOWN with NERD OF THE RINGS

[@roon-sy8fz]

I think the crowd sizes make more sense if you think of Rings of Power as halfway towards a theater production where groups of extras are intended to convey what is happening in the story rather than represent a concrete reality of the situation. It also helps explain away some things like how the guards acted during the Kemen/Valandil fight if you think of this more as a Shakespearean drama than a Worldstarhiphop fight clip.

[@mellonheads]

That's a very interesting perspective on the show as a whole and one that I haven't thought of before. However, if that were the case, there would need to be a lot more instances of this being represented. They are definitely trying to be full scale like the Jackson trilogy. For it to give me more of a Shakespearian, theatre style, perhaps don't show any blood, have monologues, perhaps even fourth wall breaks, less care for CGI and grand scale location designs. I'm not saying I would prefer this, I just think your idea is pretty cool and there would need to be other steps taken for me to feel like that is what the show is trying to convey

[@roon-sy8fz]

@@mellonheads Indeed. I wouldn't personally want it to go all the way like the Dogville movie because I appreciate the spectacle, but I wouldn't be surprised if some director or showrunner interview later explains this theory as part of the show's philosophy. It is of course possible, maybe even likely, that these constraints are just the product of COVID era film making and Marvel era over reliance on green screens and sound studios. I would have to double check movies like Avengers to be sure but I think off the top of my head that probably most NYC street scenes had say 10-20 people running around or a tropey kid/family stuck in the road to save, when real NYC would be so crammed that it would be visually confusing and distracting. That's because the source is a comic so we subliminally expect a character focus and the crows are props. I suspect the mentality for this show is similar, compared to say a movie like War of the Worlds with Tom Cruise where the street invasion is displayed as a fairly 1:1 depiction of what is supposed to be happening in the fiction. Sorry for the dissertation lol, thanks for responding. I enjoy your recaps and your constructive criticisms. Keep up the good work. :)

[@quigonejinn]

Team up of the year!!! 🙌🙌🙌 So great to see you 3 on screen together!!! Can't wait to get into this breakdown 😆

[@mellonheads]

Get a hot cuppa coco and enjoy it mellon nin 😎

[@NerdoftheRings]

It was a great time for sure! :)

[@foxtrot6670]

​@@NerdoftheRings I'm so excited for this team up!! It's what I've been begging for hahaha

[@mellonheads]

@@NerdoftheRings Thanks again for stopping by the Council Matt, loved having you! 😁👏

[@Lily-ni5po]

I just wanted to share my own interpretation of Sauron's tears after killing Celebrimbor. I think Sauron truly was upset about his death, just like he was upset by Adar's betrayal. We saw him cry alone about the latter, thousands of years after it happened. Obviously, he wasn't putting on a show about that since no one was there to witness it. It also doesn't escape my notice that Sauron has been killing disloyal Seconds all season long. Adar's second this episode and Mirdania (Celebrimbor's Second) last episode. I don't think that is a coincidence. I think Sauron found these two useful but beyond contempt for their disloyalty. He gave them the same end which he thought befitted Adar. Which I think shows how Adar's betrayal still stings. Sauron has obviously also been upset about Galadriel's rejection. I think he was sincere about missing her. I just think that in the end, sincere or not, Sauron's feelings for these people are entirely selfish. He liked having a loyal Second, but he didn't care if killing his children upset Adar. He liked having a beautiful woman show him selfless care and friendship, but he didn't care whether she wanted to stay with him. He was okay with threatening her into staying with him. He didn't care about physically harming her if she turned him down. He liked hanging out with the greatest of elven smith. But he didn't care about Celebrimbor's well being either. So Sauron is upset about Celebrimbor being dead, not because he wished for Celebrimbor to be well and happy, but because he won't get to continue to hang out with him. He is sad for himself because he wanted to keep him around so that Celebrimbor could make Sauron happy. Not the other way around. Same with Galadriel. He wants her to stay with him in part because having her care about him was something he enjoyed feeling. He doesn't care about how what he does makes her feel. In a way, he loves all three like he loves his rings, possessions that he wants to keep, but not people that he has to show care towards. In his ideal world, I am sure that Adar would have stayed his loyal second, Galadriel would be his Queen, and Celebrimbor his closest friend. They would have stayed loyal and caring as he continued murdering the people they care about in pursuit of his goal. This just shows that Sauron wants to be loved but doesn't know or care to learn about giving love in return. When these three make demand on him to show the same care they showed him, he is entirely baffled and even angered by it. Sauron wants fellowship but doesn't understand it which brings about his downfall.

[@lldavidll]

sauron was so upset about celebrimbor's death, he used his body as a banner when attacking all the way to the grey havens with 600,000+ orcs, before the numenoreans arrive to defeat them, making sauron retreat back to mordor for nearly 2 millennium. but behold--fan fiction

[@Lily-ni5po]

@@lldavidll My point was that he cared about himself, but behold bitterness I guess.

[@mellonheads]

Great comment! I love the idea that Sauron thinks of these people as his play-things and as such, will actually miss them, but not for the right reasons as he cannot properly comprehend friendship/mutual respect etc. And it's cool to think that he would want a perfect "inner circle" with Galadriel, Celebrimbor & Adar all by his side but without him caring for them. They would just service his needs. So cool! Thanks for your input!!

[@kirishima2370]

If this show was a cake, all of the best ingredients and kitchen appliances were available to bake it, they just gave the job to the wrong chef.

[@mellonheads]

Great analogy 😂 perhaps they put some of the chocolate icing on before having the foundations

[@kirishima2370]

@@mellonheads Or a chef who knew what a cake was 🤕

[@mellonheads]

@@kirishima2370 😂

[@Tnbrisket]

@@kirishima2370Write a script and submit it

[@kirishima2370]

@@Tnbrisket straight, white, male. There’s no chance I’d get a look in

[@gunnhildk6299]

The two only channels I watch about The Rings of Power, combined. I appreciate that you say early in the video that you are discussing and nitpicking because you love the show. The best scene in this episode was Celebrimbor´s death-scene. Celebrimbor in Charles Edwards acting really was the highlight of this wonderful season. Edit: I also watch "Fellowship of Fans".

[@mellonheads]

Ah yes of course! I wouldn't be doing this if I didn't enjoy the show 😁 but great to hear that you follow some admirable Hobbit friends of ours such as Nerd of the Rings and Fellowship of fans! Great channels and even better people behind them 😋

[@quigonejinn]

Haha no way - me too!!! 🙌🙌 And yes, the nitpicking doesn't come across as disrespectful so I'm all for this kind of unbiased analysis. The 3 lads were great together I'm sure you'll agree!

[@gunnhildk6299]

@@quigonejinn Yes, I agree. They are great and not disrespectful in any ways. But I liked the reasurement, because many people are not respectful at all. It makes me a bit jumpy, actually, when all I want is to enjoy the show and enjoy Tolkien´s world, which I have done for nearly four decades now. And I like to hear other peoples oppinion, when they show some respect for all the talented people who has made this show.

[@quigonejinn]

@@gunnhildk6299 well said 👏👏👏

[@Aa_Mm]

One doesn't need eyes to lead in the dark (paraphrased?) is Miriel alluding to the Sun setting on Numenor with the Pharazon/Kingsmen reign (which is also shown literally with Nimloth shedding petals in the light of the setting Sun) and letting Elendil go, who's effectively been her eyes up to this point, to carry the torch for the Faithful in her stead (passing down Narsil, the White Flame, where white has been tied to the Faithful and the Old Ways back in episode 3). Definitely one of my favourite moments of the episode. Miriel and Elendil's dynamic in general has been great all season, somehow giving off both Guinevere/Lancelot and Merlin/Arthur vibes at the same time, but this moment in particular was just chef's kiss, epic, no notes.

[@mellonheads]

You say no notes but wow, great analysis and love the way you have broken it down! Yes I think that you've fully hit the nail on the head there and that is exactly what's happening! 👀 You should be here breaking down episodes too! ;)

[@Aa_Mm]

@@mellonheads 😄😄 think it's better I stick with posting walls of text in the comments, my English only works when it's in written form. luckily you and your guests do a great job on your own, lads.

[@mellonheads]

Well thank you very much then and you're welcome to post your rolls of texts under any of our videos! 😁👏🏼

[@rachbakes3579]

Nerd of the Rings with the Mellon Heads...what a combo 🔥🔥 great episode lads!!

[@mellonheads]

Thanks Rachel, I'm glad you enjoyed it 😁👏🏼

[@foxtrot6670]

😍😍😍

[@MrHobbes6]

Maybe the real Blue Wizard was the Gandalf we met along the way.😅 "Heal yourself” is a biblical reference: "Physician, heal thyself.” Basically: stop trying to fix everyone else before you get your own shit sorted. Anything biblical is pretty Tolkienian, although somehow the framing does make it sound silly in the moment.

[@mellonheads]

Oh that's a nice little tidbit there about the Christianity reference! Sauron is obviously the Middle-Earth devil too so a lot of these references make sence

[@Tnbrisket]

I agree y’all should be able to critique a series but I think there tends to be a lack of constructive criticism and a lot of just complaining honestly. Harping on how “small” the combat scenes feel is a bit ridiculous to me bc even GoT had to do this as well with set limitations. Sure I’d love to see larger shots but regarding combat it should feel personal and centralized. The Eregion seige was beautiful and was great, to say otherwise is being willfully contrarian.

[@mellonheads]

Don't look on twitter, you're gonna find people who are much more than "contrarian"! 😅

[@andtheBlueFlames]

So funny when you guys said you thought Galadriel was about to give Sauron the finger - I can totally imagine a parody version of this like "Scary Movie" where that happens!! LOL Really enjoying this breakdown so far!!!!

[@mellonheads]

Hahaha that parody needs to be made! I will fund it myself 😎 yea I was actually surprised that all 3 of us thought the same thing 😂

[@nyx5376]

A parody of a parody. The world needs that for sure.

[@George19712]

Even with my seeing it coming, my least favorite moment was The Stranger being Gandalf. Two Blue Wizards was a great opportunity for TROP to do something original creatively that many fans wanted explored. My favorite was the Celibrimbor / Annatar dynamic. It was epic. Hats off to both Charlies. Honorable mentions to 1st..Making lemonade out of lemons, Gandalf chilling with Tom and 2nd..The Balrog / King Durin scene which was stunning. Now Balrog, until the 3rd age, please go back to sleep. 😴 💤 🛏

[@mellonheads]

I'll never know why the show runners chose to go for an already beloved character than blue wizards which would give us the exact same feeling but can be something completely original! Yes the Charlie's were exceptional this season and so sad that Edwards has to leave the cast now . Yes nighty night Mr Balrog 😂

[@Simon-kt2lx]

For Galadriel falling off the cliff. It was a bit too much but we can see her falling in a tree so the fall was (if we accept it) a bit cushioned.

[@mellonheads]

A bit cushioned maybe but I wouldn't even believe a cartoon character to survive it 😅

[@Simon-kt2lx]

@@mellonheads She's a powerful elf with a very good constitution lol When i saw the tree i think okay, fair enough even if i find it a bit silly. But in the end, she is a powerful and magical being protected by some force. I don't apply every bit of logic that i have for a show or a movie. I try to see it as a balance between cool and realistic. It was cool for a visual standpoint so i give a pass. Aha!

[@mellonheads]

Ok haha but I only have one or two passes for characters escaping certain death from now on 😂

[@quigonejinn]

​@@Simon-kt2lxit looked amazing!

[@lldavidll]

@@quigonejinn it looked so amazing multiple people stopped fighting to watch her fall.

[@coryurdiales9437]

Please have Matt on every episode. Thank you. If not no worries. You guys are great too 😊

[@mellonheads]

Haha well thank you! We loved having Matt on and we've also been delighted to get some of the guests that we've had on in general covering all the breakdowns for season 2! 😁

[@quigonejinn]

Yes, pleasssseeee!! 😍🙏🎉

[@foxtrot6670]

Yes loved seeing all 3 nerds together nerding out on nerd things 😍😍

[@EmmaCharlotte-f6q]

Worst moment was not understanding Sauron's reaction to Galadriel jumping from cliff. Did he think she died? Did he care that she possibly died like he seemed to with Celebrimbor or was he only angry that he didn't get her ring? He seemed very angry and took it out on the next orc to enter his presence. Best moment was Tom Bombadil and Gandalf singing. It was cosy, comforting and enchanting. Made the rest of the world fall away and seem so trivial. I relished that moment, so peaceful and endearing. I wish they were by my fire, drinking tea with me, singing.

[@mellonheads]

That's a very interesting point about Sauron/Galadriel reaction actually and hadn't thought much about it. I assumed he was just angry that he doesn't get the elven ring and angry that she closed the gate on him. I also think he assumed she had survived the fall. Yes Old Tom and Gandalf singing together was so reminiscent of the two great characters holding a 2 year conversation in the book! Very comforting indeed

[@foxtrot6670]

Not only did Sauron not understand why she jumped but neither did I

[@EmmaCharlotte-f6q]

@@foxtrot6670 Haha, I know it was completely unexpected and perplexing.

[@Adam-xg1ch]

lol why didnt he just go down the cliff and get the ring from her corpse. nothing makes sense.

[@mellonheads]

@@Adam-xg1ch Yea I never even thought of this because I was still thinking "how the heck they gonna explain her surviving that" which they didn't lol

[@samuel-j3i]

Really enjoying this breakdown and agree with you all about the Dwarven scenes being amongst the best of the entire show but hey!!! I didn't know you guys were friends with Matt too ❤❤

[@mellonheads]

The Dwarves are the real MVP's!

[@ranabirmitra]

Mellon Headssss!! Absolutely love you guys and it's my first comment on your channel..❤ I come from Robert's channel (In Deep Geek) and enjoy your content

[@mellonheads]

Aww delighted to see this comment! We loved having Robert on the channel a few weeks back! He's absolutely brilliant 😁 thank you Mellon and welcome to the council!

[@quigonejinn]

I loved that episode with Robert on here for episode 5 breakdown. Such fresh opinions from people who love the Lore - well done!!

[@danielizquierdo9237]

My worst moment of the episode: Galadriel falling off the cliff. Best moment: Slow-mo of Durin facing the Balrog. Worst thing of the season: The whole battle of Eregion, which was just confusing on every level. Best thing of the season: Sauron's manipulation of Celebrimbor. Great episode again guys all the best!

[@mellonheads]

Thank you Dan! I can't disagree with you one but. Galadriels fall was bizarre and Eregion was confusing and underwhelming especially when we had heard long ago of the "biggest onscreen battle taking up 3 episodes" 😅 the two Charlie's knocked it out of the park with their scenes together and no matter what you think about the timeline of the Balrog, you cannot think that opener to the finale was anything other than epic 🔥

[@dougmphilly]

@@danielizquierdo9237 Annatar was exactly as I pictured him. And he manipulated the one elf that would cause the most harm, celembrimbor. A theme in tolkein is that pride is the deadliest mortal sin. Nearly all of the source of evil from Valar to man is hubris.

[@julieannfaehealing]

So great to see all 3 of you together keeping things light and lore chats ❤❤❤

[@mellonheads]

Yea Matt is on a similar wavelength to us. There are parts of the show that we love and other parts that we don't like so much but we always love discussing it all 😎

[@quigonejinn]

Can we start a petition to make them do a weekly pod together!?? 😂

[@Divine_Chareka]

Season 2 was fun if I'm being honest 🙌

[@mellonheads]

Much improved from season 1! 👏

[@dougmphilly]

@@mellonheads practically zero from the southlands family soap opera, barely any harfeet and none of the rights of workers from numenor's dockworkers.

[@mellonheads]

@@dougmphilly Yes that was a huge improvement for sure!

[@therealtwiggyleaf]

Balrogs DON'T have wings, but they look better cinematically if they do, so WHATEVER.... Thanks for the review! .😎

[@mellonheads]

Haha this is the definitive answer! And you're very welcome, thank you for watching 😁

[@quigonejinn]

Is it only a fool's hope to wish they DO have wings? 😂

[@lldavidll]

they also arent described to be huge 40 ft beings. they are described as twice the height of a human.

[@foxtrot6670]

Really? I just assumed this is how they were exactly described in the book 👀

[@dougmphilly]

@@therealtwiggyleaf I move the wings as smoke trails. It satisfies both camps. Bakshi’s animated balrog with wings was so bad that there should never be another wings argument.

[@redelfshotthefood8213]

What's my best of the series? Disa singing Dwarf magic. One of the forgotten aspects of LotR is that everybody sings. Entertainment without tv and movies. Everybody sings at least the common songs as well as damce the simple country dances. Song and dance are how we celebrate our lives, and the characters should too. Worst bit: Wondering who the stranger is. One thing we haven't touched on was that Tolkien kept changing his mind through the decades he worked on Middle Earth, Numenor and the West. He had 4 origins for orcs that we know of for instance. Oh. And not enough Trolls, Dragons and Balrogs. The elves haven't faded yet... So elves soloing against 20 uruks or several trolls makes sense to me... Except that would be very very expensive. But it is a first age type idea. Oh. And more spawn of Ungolient.

[@mellonheads]

Agree, I love how music and song is conveyed in this series and I'm glad the Stranger mystery box is over now! Hahaha yes, I loved Damrod but it was kind of strange that there was only 1 troll in the whole orc army especially when we have already become accustomed to seeing hundreds with the films etc.

[@George19712]

Great dynamics between the 3 of you. As I said before, I still think the series trying so hard to have consistent episode lengths is hurting it. Doing so is resulting in cut scenes, rushed scenes and sometimes "filler". All of which results with episodes with missed potential.

[@mellonheads]

Thanks, we loved having the Godfather Matt on! It was such a blast 😁 Yes I agree that they need to ditch the rigid length of episodes and seasons. Take Stranger Things for example, changing amount of episodes and in final season some episodes are 40 mins when others are over 2 hours long!!!

[@Simon-kt2lx]

There are maybe 2 more elves with armour in the last scene. But yes, I understand this is a tease but they should make more crowded shots. Like the dwarves in Khazad Dum are better handle in some shots. That said, even if they pitch the show more as movies, I still think of it as high quality television. We cannot have everything. Still they can still do a bit better for these shots.

[@mellonheads]

That's true, they aren't movies, however people do often throw around the amount of budget that they have and the likes of GOT or HotD have far less but can imitate humongous crowds for nearly every episode. You're right though, Khazad-Dum is far better in this regard

[@Simon-kt2lx]

@@mellonheads That is true, but some environments and FX elements or make up in RoP already required more than HotD. There is more complex shots in general (not all) than GoT or HotD. But i don't want to argue because you are right. It could still look more crowded when it need to be. The only little point that i have is the Rivendell shot (beautiful by the way) was just a tease and the scene accomplish just that. For now, with a better season, i will trust the showrunners when they say this : "We think the show is just hitting its stride, and we anticipate that season three will be onward and upward." They will surely continue to improve and maybe they will address the scale crowding problem in the next one.

[@mellonheads]

Yes I agree, it is just a teaser of what's to come and I look forward to seeing Imladris in the future seasons 😁👏🏼

[@dunateo3506]

I hope the production springs for more extras next season. Seems like there are about 25 - 50 people in each city.

[@mellonheads]

Yes more extras or just better ways to use those extras! Fill in the gaps with CGI characters would be a huge improvement!

[@quigonejinn]

This is the biggest issue with the show. 100% agree it would make a massive difference

[@matthewscunningham]

This episode felt like a mad rush to tie up all the loose ends with took away from what could have been more epic.

[@mellonheads]

I feel that constraining themselves to 8 episodes with only 1 hour give or take isn't helping themselves. You really think tv shows give you more time with characters but every new season, you have to introduce new characters and plotlines without anyone really being killed off.....

[@MikeJohannessen]

What a great episode! Matt is always a great addition. I also sub to him, so seeing him here was a pleasant surprise.

[@mellonheads]

It was a pleasure to have him on! But yea, who isn't subbed to him at this point hahaha

[@MikeJohannessen]

@@mellonheads He he indeed :)

[@foxtrot6670]

​@@MikeJohannessenI love seeing Matt show up on a podcast but to see him on my favourite podcast really made my weekend 😍

[@mellonheads]

You are too kind! Thanks so much :) Hopefully it's not such a long wait before he shows up again for some top tier analysis!! 🙏🙌

[@George19712]

Yes. The quick recovery of Arondir was quite staggering and unrealistic.

[@mellonheads]

I just don't know when I should worry about a character getting wounded or not. Look at Game of Thrones. A character might get a small battle scar and eventually die from disease. It makes me worry for characters whereas here, they can survive sword through the gut and 200 foot cliff fall and will be perfectly fine later the same episode.

[@quigonejinn]

Made no sense whatsoever

[@HasseBasseBingBong]

Maybe we'll get an answer in season 3.

[@mellonheads]

@@HasseBasseBingBong An answer to how Galadriel survived? I'm 99.9% sure we will not. Not a satisfactory one anyways haha

[@TaiwanDan26]

I think the biggest sign that S2 was infinitely better than S1 is that when S1 ended, I wasn’t overly bothered about the 2 year wait, whereas I am now questioning why everyone to do with the show is such a lazy bastard and isn’t churning out S3 is 3 months 😂

[@mellonheads]

Hahaha well yea that's a good point. However I was very curious what was to come of Sauron at the end of season 1 but yes I agree that I'm looking forward to season 3 even more 😋

[@foxtrot6670]

Please don't let it be as long as the last wait... That will actually kill me :(

[@mellonheads]

Yes, hopefully without the COVID excuse or the moving from NZ to UK they can reduce the turnaround time!! 🙏

[@dougmphilly]

@@TaiwanDan26 why a long time? Season 3 gonna be like 15 episodes? Some cast changes? The new Adar was better than the old Adar.

[@mellonheads]

I'd be shocked if they changed the format from 8 episodes to 15 tbh but if it's only getting greenlit this month, then maybe expect scripts to be finished by summer next year with shooting to take place the end of the year and beginning of 2026 meaning that it won't be released until the same time August/September 2026 so another 2 years :/

[@redelfshotthefood8213]

Yeeeees! (This podcast will have to do until I can get home again.). Best wishes for Octagon!!! (From 🇨🇦) 33:28 If, dear reader, you on your next read through of LotR you note each foresight Tolkien drops into the text, I think you'll find just about every character has foresight. I think that is Tolkien showing Illuvitar's hand in a very Christian based way. It's a very subtle way of saying the Fellowship is God's way of helping His Creation.

[@mellonheads]

Hope you enjoy and hey, whats the distance from CA to Dublin? Might see you there! 😉

[@redelfshotthefood8213]

Well. I do have an as yet unchecked lottery ticket. 😉. It's 8 time zones to Dublin. 1/3 the planet.

[@mellonheads]

@@redelfshotthefood8213 Hahaha that would be great! 😉 Just seeing the edited note and you're correct, there are plenty of times that characters such as Elrond, Galadriel, Faramir etc. are mentioned multiple times to have foresight but there's probably a huge pool of Tolkiens characters that show it at least once!

[@light_bringer_82]

Guys Varahil and arondir are easily healed by Gilgalad's ring and Galadriel had Nenya in her grasp - everyone got it

[@mellonheads]

So there's no stakes now? Nobody within 1,000 meters of Nenya can die? Cool, got it 😎

[@foxtrot6670]

Matt talking about the glory of Elendil and the comparison between him and Aragorn and the white flame! 😍 Daves thought about Durins brother next season was interesting too and i hadn't thought about that 👀 i agree with Johnny about the Stanger, the show cam call him Gandalf but hes not Gandalf to me, he is a blue wizard 😂

[@mellonheads]

There were actually some real gems in this conversation and it's always a pleasure to hear Matt go on a tangent about Tolkien lore! 😍

[@matthewscunningham]

I thought for a second she was going to but all the rings on and have mad powers to defeat sauron

[@mellonheads]

I... Am... Ironman.... Should have had an "I am Galadriel" moment 😂

[@reflectiverambling1148]

OH kay, I'm late but... here goes *stretches out arms, tries to pop neck and shoulders* here we go... IMHO the dwarves had had the best exposition/ dialogue/writing moments across the two seasons. Their interactions really tugged at my heart. I'll never be going "but---WHAT WHY HOW" over Disa's near toss aside comment about how her father in law was more of a dad to her in some ways than her own... just dumping that on us and yeahh... I'm surprised his brother didn't show up in this season. I suspected a dwarven civil war for this one sooo I'm gonna shove that over into next. That is a very good question about how much does Adar know about the rings/ Sauron's actual plan and...how? Very good points about scale. It might not be even that they don't want to use CGI, maybe it was a cost cutting measure. I'm glad it wasn't just me. I really felt like the dialogue exchange during the torture stood out the lest to me, minus the never follow type part. But I also was spoiled for a bit about this scene so I was probably dimmed by that. Also the second lord of the rings title drop actually was one of the few times I actually cringed...*Shrug* I like that idea of saying something slightly different. The only thing I really know about the tear is that it was improvised. BUt like with how Sauron reacts to Galadriel, I think he truly grieves the loss of potential toys/ allies. I don't think it's sympathy, more back to Celembrimbor saying that he deceives only himself. Very self centered. My favorite thing about the Adar scene was him rejecting the reverted version of himself to see he had embraced who he had become. I do wish we had Sauron's pitch. possibly something about ' I would not use you as he has' as Glug started to doubt when Adar was using them as fodder. Spin kick was a touch cheesy. THANK YOU. Okay. It's no secret how much I adore elfiest elf, but I was so FRUSTRATED with him in this episode. He goes from looking like he's down for the count to slaying like a boss. so magically fine. He never gets closure and actually probably makes his will to get vengence on Adar worse as he failed to take him out round one....and then the salt in the bloody wound? He's just standing there watching someone get healed from poison magical weapon like any random person walking by a car wreck at best and look, I know elves are stoic and this isn't a slam against the actor but... that's... that's not gonna pull at least a string or two? Just *open flail hands* ((Which I can't not state that the fact Galadriel was so wounded was due to weaponry not fall would have mirrored Bronwyn's end narrative wise, first to last ep, and does nothing but further convince me they didn't always plan to kill her like that and the actor's withdrawl was not wanting to come back for a death sequence. Stir in Isildur and THeo getting so much screentime together and over the topic...)) I also was confused about the actual decision was...THough I will say one of my biggest wishes goin into this was to see the founding of Rivendell. Admit I didn't think it would be this soon but I'll take it. okay I have to confess I REALLY feel like I missed something when we got back to the stoors it was like show up to DESTROY... Aggravated sigh about him being confirmed Gandalf. I loved Tom but ... def least excited part. yay for NArsil... also on a shallow comment the costume department has been outstanding in this (Thinking of Miriel's newest gown) also did a little happy dance with the Anarion nod. Actually for me, I wondered more about how show only people would take the 'reclaim' comment as I'm not sure (haven't rewatched one in a long time) if it was ever mentioned just why his lineage is important at all or at least enough for MIriel to pay her respects. This is such a hard thing for me to say. I want to really like Estrid. I see the potential. I have nothing against the actress. But the moment I realized she was goin and getting cozy with Isildur and hadn't been honest/truthful/ DUMPED this other guy first. That she didn't draw away just didn't hold fiancee's hand back...So many triggers there. Cheating is just never excusable in my book and nope. I do however like the switch up of him not being a bad guy, she just doesn't like him as usually it's the case of being stuck in an abusive/toxic situation out of necessity. I'm not sure if son of Bronwyn was supposed to be significant or just a not to former naming schemes when surnames weren't common. Won't lie, said something like this on twitter. If Bronwyn had been there Kemen would have been pulled right back on that boat by the ear? Some guy wants to renegotiate terms? They come talk to their faces, not send some silken-handed whelp with disrespect spewing out of his pores casually saying to destroy what they've been working to build for a year HMMMFH! :p Wait. now that you say this...Isildur just abandoned Theo to deal with a mob of angry ents that will be coming his way? DUDE. You were there with the pact too. -.- I would also like to note that I'm calling a recast happening and that the wolfhound that appeared in Pelargir is in fact tavern pup in episode 1 because my heart needs this, and anyone who wants to say other wise is speaking to corked ears. Worst of episode- Gandalf, frustration mentioned with Arondir, and Kemen just being cardboard bwah ha ha evil (his father too in general) given how deep some of the other antagonists have been. Best- Agree on Durins and Rivendell just existing.

[@mellonheads]

I'm actually predicting now that the brother will turn up in season 3 asking Durin where their father is with Durin telling him that a huge beast took him and the brother will not believe this and will think Durin is crazy and possibly murdered their father leading him to be a huge threat of usurping the throne. Woah hold up, the tear was IMPROVISED!? Did not know that!!? Yes an interesting change not having Estrids betrothed as a bad guy but then that the means that Isildur is the bad guy and so is Estrid which I too just cannot get behind. Yes getting Rivendell was a highlight and I just hope we get a lot more from this elven realm than we did of the 1 set in Lindon with the tree and the 1 set in Eregion of the courtyard in front of Celebrimbors tower. Thank you so much as always for your amazing comment that I almost need to wait and fix a bowl of popcorn before reading! Hope you're feeling much better 😁 see you on the next video! - Dave

[@reflectiverambling1148]

@@mellonheads Okay yeah, I can see that tactic with the bro! Maybe not improvised, he may have planned it, but it wasn't scripted. i /suppose/ you could argue that him moving in on someone else's girl is a sign that he's not totally incorruptible hero buuuuut...that's a stretch. I don't think (I hope not) that we won't get to see Rivendell in full glory as, you know, lots of actual foundation and they're a little busy with war, but I really do hope we get to see moe of it. Thanks for putting up with me. fwiw I have to sit down with freakin' dinner to go through and comment XD

[@mellonheads]

Unscripted Charlie tears is amazing! 😝 Of course, love reading your comments on this channel 😁👏🏼

[@JackSmith-ns1uq]

I interpreted Sauron’s tear as a reaction to the weight of what Celebrimbor said - not just that a ring would be his downfall but that his downfall would mean his final end. Basically he’s not going to heaven. His only hope and gain is on this earth. But theres nothing good waiting for him on the other side. And how ever much he might prolong it, his time will end. He is based on the devil afterall, who theologically has some limited reign on earth - but is ultimately a defeated enemy. Culture depicts the satan as a “ruler of hell” but theres no theological precedence for this. Its just as much a place of torment for him. And so likewise, Sauron knows Illuvitar and therefore knows that his rebellion can only ever end in defeat, along with his own ruinous demise.

[@mellonheads]

Well said Jack! Yes I agree, of course the tear is for himself and the realisation of his destiny

[@JackSmith-ns1uq]

@@mellonheadsbtw, came for Nerd of the Rings, but loved yalls capability to value both the things the show gets right and areas it needs to do better in. Very refreshing for a show that has such divisive opinions, yet as much as it gets wrong it also has some undeniably great moments in my opinion. Subscribed! Its only a shame I caught on to yall at the end of the season… i’ll have to catch up!

[@mellonheads]

Aw thanks so much man, really kind comment to read! We appreciate anyone who can enjoy the show for its good moments while also recognising its flaws. It's not all good nor all bad, and that can be ok, even if Twitter tells you otherwise!

[@EJ_Crough]

16:24 kinda sums up the entire RoP experience sadly

[@foxtrot6670]

Hahaha nice little clip 😂

[@mellonheads]

Could be the tag line of the show lol

[@belenlatova7019]

❤ my favorite podcasters

[@mellonheads]

Thank you, hope you enjoy the breakdown 😁

[@edain990]

100 stabs compared to thousands of years of torture from Morgoth are NOTHING guys.

[@mellonheads]

Well Sauron was never tortured by Morgoth in the books 👀 but also if you're comparing an elf with one of the Maiar, there's a huge difference. Are you talking about Adar and Sauron?

[@chook1311]

So arondir was sent back by eru?

[@mellonheads]

I don't think so but it seems very Gandalf like how quickly he recovers from near death haha

[@dougmphilly]

gonna miss adar, durin iii and celembrimbor. if i never see another harfoot. gilgad looking all jacked in that suit pf armor. sauron as annatar is so good. galadriel is the easiest mark in all of middle earth. final shot of imladris is beautiful, but 50 elves are going to beat thousands of sauron lead orcs? arondir and the southlands soap opera getting reved up - booo. did gandalf travel to rhun - i can't recall but he does know who tom bombadil is. i so hope that the dark wizard is not saruman, totally screws up any timeline, so maybe a turtned to evil blue wizard is still in the offering?

[@mellonheads]

No Gandalf never travelled to Rhun and neither did Tom Bombadil for that matter and thats why I hoping that he would turn out to be a Blue wizard as they did and there's a version of Tolkiens lore that they came to Middle-Earth in the second age so it wouldn't have even been lore-breaking! Yes the showrunners have already said that it is very improbable that the dark wizard is Saruman so I hope they aren't teasing us because that would be very annoying lol

[@dougmphilly]

@@mellonheads now a blue wizard impersonating Tom Bombadil would be bloody brilliant

[@kirishima2370]

The scale of 'everything' is poorly portrayed. Where are the mighty elf armies of the second age? Why are the Numenoreans (High Men) so small and weak. The world and the peoples in it have no sense of scale, it all feels like a soap opera

[@mellonheads]

I agree with the sense of scale. However, for a live action tv show, it would be impossible and probably strange seeing hundreds of 7 foot tall men and women. They do need massive improvements on their sense of scope however

[@gesa8518]

Jeah, but the warriors look like schoolboys and girls, it is simply not convincing, that there is a real fight. You cannot deny all physical rules just becazse the writers demand it.

[@mellonheads]

I agree that they do massively need to up the realism and make us viewers feel the weight of what's happening on screen. There have been some poor physical acting moments too but mostly I think the choreography is fairly solid

[@kirishima2370]

@@mellonheads I think it could be done with stronger casting and a little bit of PJ false perspective. The Numenoreans just don't look tough enough. Speakig of poor casting fat, old, fat & old elves? And whilst I was originally a fan of the colourblind-casting it's really not working in giving places a distinct feel, everywhere looks like they've dragged the cast out of a New York McDonalds and put wigs and pointey ears on the patrons.

[@mellonheads]

@@kirishima2370 Which elves are you referring to? 😅 Hmmm yea, I do feel like the show reflects our world a little bit too much but I'm over that now in season 2. Yea maybe PJ's forced perspective could have been cool!

[@TheTableOfDurin]

In one word the entire season was: Meh It has it's moments like the two charlies and Arondir, but it has too many plot holes, and problems with scale

[@mellonheads]

Couldn't agree more

[@chook1311]

You can tell all 3 hate this show! They have to say nice things as Matt is on the Amazon payroll

[@mellonheads]

You can tell that you haven't watched any of our other breakdowns 😂 this makes no sense

[@mobster5626]

Unfortunately, I think the season comes off as being rather messy in the style that we have gotten used to with ROP. I could see the show having potential, but there are way too many poorly explained things in the show and people doing things that simply make no sense and seem to only be there to drive forward the plot. I did like the Balrog scene, even though it shouldn't be there, but again it was way too shallow as with everything else in the show. As a viewer, you have to eat a lot of nonsense. Also got the impression that maybe a whole episode was missing or cut, between 7 and 8. That every character has such a thick plot armour is hurting the show. But overall I think the show's main problem is that it suffers from very poor writing when it comes to telling consistent stories.

[@mellonheads]

It's a very accurate analysis and unfortunately we are getting too many inexcusable character decisions (even with their invented characters) that are only made to service the plot. I think the writers will all be changed for S3 with one exception staying on so hopefully they are able to connect the story beats more naturally. Visually stunning but that alone doesn't make a great TV show

[@mobster5626]

@@mellonheads I think it is a good choice to change the writers, but honestly, I think they should change the showrunners :) I have a difficult time believing that almost all writers hired for this show are apparently incompetent. Saw an interview with the showrunners where they said that they didn't even know that the Stranger was supposed to be Gandalf, he kind of just turned into it. That should highlight some of the issues if you write a story and aren't really sure who your characters are supposed to be. But also a lot of things unfortunately come off as being very sloppy, like Arondir not being damaged suddenly. This is one of the main characters in the show, it's not like something in the background. The whole Gandalf scene is so rushed that it feels like something is missing here. And I don't think you can blame that on the writers, something is clearly not working in the production of the show for mistakes like this to happen. Also don't know why Sauron doesn't just go down and get Galadriel's ring? From a viewer's perspective, it makes no sense, he clearly wants the rings and for all he knows she is dead and the ring is down there, so if he doesn't go and get the ring, then it will be lost. But apparently, he doesn't? And this is the big issue with the show, things don't really add up.

[@mellonheads]

@@mobster5626 Really? I haven't seen that interview? I've seen plenty of showrunner interviews before season 1 where they claimed that they know exactly what they're doing with the character so that would be a huge contradiction. Tbh, I know what you mean but you can't sack the showrunners, it's their pitch that got this story approved at Amazon. It will be them or it will be cancelled, they can't be replaced. I hadn't even thought about why Sauron didn't just go down but I guess maybe he saw the other Elves approaching?

[@mobster5626]

@@mellonheads It would be a stretch as we know their location when they see her fall. I just found it funny, that Sauron has gone through so much effort in creating the rings, with Adar, the elves etc. And then for some reason doesn't care to go pick it up. Anyway you can find the interview here, it is in the last part of the video. Time 2.56.18 kzbin.info/www/bejne/jXSTZ4GVhsaKgNE&ab_channel=TheRinger-Verse

[@mellonheads]

Thank you for sharing! Will be checking this out 👍🏼

[@nikolaynikolov5474]

Where those 1 billion dollars goes...in someone pockets...I don't know. Definitely, I did not see them on my TV screen. And where is the originality? I don't know. I see only some copies paste from P.J. trilogy.

[@mellonheads]

Well tbf over a quarter was spent just getting the rights to make the show in the first place and the rest is spread out through 5 seasons so pretty standard. I'm not defending the show, I'm just saying it's a similar amount of money to most other shows tbh

[@johnbaker9912]

Season two was worse than season one 😥

[@mellonheads]

Do you not think it was an improvement? What was worse in your opinion?

[@johnbaker9912]

@@mellonheads sincerely, thanks for responding! Visuals were mostly great, so that is consistent. *Maybe* the overall dialogue was an improvement, but the story beats made no sense, the overall plot is even more rushed than previously, and the absolute lack of verisimilitude amongst and between individual characters was just...atrocious. And don't get me started on the lore butchery! I really, sorely wanted to love, or at least enjoy, this show. Oh well.

[@dougmphilly]

no way. season 2 was better.

[@foxtrot6670]

Season 2 is far better ​@@johnbaker9912

[@mellonheads]

@@johnbaker9912 Haha of course, thanks for the comment! I know how you feel... I do try to just see this as a lore adjacent show because you would lose count if you were nitpicking every time the lore strays from the books.

[@nikolaynikolov5474]

The worst part of the show is the dialogs. So so stupid. I mean I never ever heard so shallow and amateur scripts in my life

[@mellonheads]

Scripts need major improvement but some of the dialogue is great too! 😁

[@tvtv-s2j]

A complete disaster just a nonsensical mess of a show.

[@mellonheads]

I'm guessing you haven't watched the breakdown anyways 😂

[@Ralaacj]

Bollox

[@mellonheads]

The episode or the breakdown? 👀

[@westbethkid]

I'm sorry--the "pity" line is terrible. WHY would whatever-her-name-is feel pity for the masked maurader holding them hostage with a knife at their throats? The hobbits know literally almost NOTHING about him. He was chasing them, he killed people, he punched that big black hobbit lady, etc. The pity is completely UNEARNED. The pity Frodo (and Bilbo) feel for Gollum is that, obviously, he is a PITIFUL creature. Cowering, sniveling, mentally deranged, and most of all--an ADDICT to the One Ring. Frodo and and Bilbo can see "there but for the grace of God" themselves becoming Gollum. As Ringbearers they understand. There is NOTHING like that between the RoP Hobbit and the Masked guy. The showrunners/writers put that in there as a shorthand "Hey remember when we felt pity for Gollum in the Jackson movie" let's do that that here! They seem to want to shoehorn a Star Wars/Game of Thrones type story--into the Tolkien world. But, since they don't really any ideas, they just throw references around. It's cynical fan fiction of the worst kind, and honestly, it's insulting the audience.

[@mellonheads]

There are countless examples in films of a captive showing mercy to their capture and sparing their life when they could choose vengeance. It's a typical Hero decision. In this case however, mercy is not an option as the capture is dead, and so pity is the natural alternative. I'm not sure but I think it may come across bad if a hero celebrates the death of anyone, even the person who had held them captive. It's just standard hero character writing. Also, just for clarification, the Harfoots didn't ever see him kill anyone so for all they know it was a bluff. Basically I agree that this show has been obviously trying very hard to have call-backs to the movies even when they're not earned. This is definitely not the worst for me. Yes I think they're trying to evoke the pity conversation from FotR but I don't hate the character's decision in this instance either. Not something id get too upset over

[@westbethkid]

@@mellonheads Thank you for the reply--I like your channel, and I am a subscriber. First off, I'd say generally--the internet is where people get very upset over the slightest thing, so... 🤔🙂 Yes, the Harfoots never actually see Goldenmask kill anybody, but I think it's pretty clear that the only thing keeping them alive is Saruman-Not-Saruman's orders. "Bring them to me alive" (paraphrasing) Also, I can't imagine really the Harfoots "celebrating" Goldenmask's death. There is a spectrum of emotion between "celebrating someone's death" and "pitying them" In my opinion, the appropriate and common sense response here is: Relief, and Shock. Saruman-not-Saruman says "I hope my actions today will lead you to know better of me" Harfoot says "this is the sort of action you mean?" It's not that Harfoot should pity Goldenmask himself, it's that Harfoot is appalled at the casual way Saruman-Not-Saruman dispenses with Goldenmask's life. The "action" is actually the subject of disagreement--not the recipient of the action. Bad writing. This is how to make it better: "I hope my actions today will lead you to know better of me" Harfoot says "this is the sort of action you mean?" "You pity him whose blade was at your throat?" "IT WAS CRUEL. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY SHOULD BE KILLED LIKE THAT" Again, the writers of this show are trying to make you feel something, a "callback emotion" from the Jackson movie/Tolkien books--instead of writing a scene correctly and letting the characters speak for themselves. This is one of the main problems of the show.

[@mellonheads]

I understand your point now and I completely agree. Thanks for explaining further. I felt the same way in several instances this season, where the dialogue and actions/motivations only existed to move the plot along and didn't make any sense for a particular character or situation if you actually thought about it for a moment. Uncharacteristic actions is one of the biggest problems for me this season. Let's just hope next season they'll keep improving and maybe by season 5 they'll have it figured out 🤣