Rings of Power: Season 2 Retrospective Part 3 | Rings & Realms

Part three of our multi-part retrospective series is here! Today we’re talking about Pelargir.
We hope you enjoy unpacking Season 2 of The Rings of Power with us, and welcome this episodes guests: Alan from The Prancing Pony Podcast, Rings of Power Wrapup, and Today's Tolkien Times, and Matt from Nerd of the Rings! Check out their links below to learn more.
‪@tolkientimes‬
‪@NerdoftheRings‬ and / nerdoftherings
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Rings & Realms is an independent production made with passion by a group of dedicated volunteer artists and scholars. Our goal is to share knowledge in an accessible way, and offer tools and food for thought for engagement with Prime Video’s The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power.
Join us each week for a new episode here on KZbin.
You can also join us live for our longer, Q&A show Other Minds and Hands Mondays at 4:30pm EST
...and Reddit discussion on r/LOTR_on_prime.
Hosts: Dr. Corey Olsen, aka The Tolkien Professor, is president of Signum University and is one of the academic experts on Tolkien and his lore. Dr Maggie Parke is a lecturer at Signum University, Director of Signum Studios, and her expertise is in adaptation, production, and fan engagement.
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Credits -
Created, Hosted, and Written by Dr. Corey Olsen
X: @TolkienProf
Website: tolkienprofessor.com
Podcast: tolkienprof.fi....
Produced, Hosted, and Written by Dr. Maggie Parke
X: @MaggieParke
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Directed by: Benjamin Davis
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Special Thanks:
Elvish Illumination Artwork - at.mansbjorkman....
Måns Berg
Gildir, Per Lindberg

[@HannahM-tt4bw]

Without bringing personal judgement about others discomfort into the equation....Kemen's mother foreseeing her son coming to ill ends while breastfeeding him really adds an unsettling weight to that prediction. Breastfeeding typically evokes feelings of peace, fulfillment or even happiness while bonding with your baby. It's very eery to have a mother's thoughts wander in such a way unless there's something 'more' behind them. Parallel this with another father/son conversation between the two Durins when we find out that the younger failed to thrive initially. A mother's worry about her child's fate WOULD be a natural and predictable consequence of that situation. It's all about context.

[@sdl1ishappy]

That fact that this show has so many women writers and women directors that are allowed to actually bring womanly themes into it really makes it an interesting watch because the breast feeding detail is really unnerving and nothing that I think a male writer would come up with.

[@annafdd]

Is this an American thing? The mere mention of breastfeeding didn’t make me uncomfortable in the least. Is that one of those OMG I SAW A NIPPLE BRING OUT THE SALTS! moment?

[@DurinsbaneDK]

Thank you, Corey and Maggie, and everyone else involved with this! To say this content has brought so much joy to me and others is not saying enough! I want to especially give a thanks to all the people that contributed to the funds to make this happen, without you all we all would have not had such a great trove of entertainment.

[@joshuampayne]

Love these round-tables

[@bityew]

All the retrospective guests have been so good, but I do LOVE Matt! Thank you all for traveling and spending so much time to do these episodes for us.

[@gwenhagey-shirk5175]

I feel like Corey and Maggie pay more attention and take more care to analyze whats' going on within the context of the story that is being told, rather than 'I don't like this and therefore I won't even try to think about what's going on'

[@adamreinhardt9135]

Of all the commentary in this episode the only thing I feel compelled to comment on is the whole breastfeeding bit. I didn’t react with any kind of awkwardness to that dialogue and Matt’s objection to it sits wrong with me. Its giving “guys complaining about women breastfeeding in public” energy. Disgust toward breastfeeding seems to be a uniquely western and uniquely modern phenomenon. It makes perfect sense to me that the men of Tolkien’s world would have no discomfort talking about something so natural and necessary. And the fact that the prophecy comes to Kemmen’s mother during a moment of intimacy, perhaps the deepest and most profound intimacy a parent and child can share, makes it so much more devastating. So from a story perspective I think it was perfect as written. But in general, why tf are people so uncomfortable with breast feeding?

[@Chociewitka]

indeed, 100% agree

[@annafdd]

Specifically an American thing, I felt.

[@davidbeer5015]

I think it is a western/American thing. As one, it didn’t weird me out, but probably because of how much it meant to my wife and understanding that (and one of the Psalms has a similarly worded passage of “gave faith when on my mother’s breast”). Idk Matt’s experiences and why it was awkward for him though.

[@Chociewitka]

@@davidbeer5015 some consider breasts exclusively erotically coded and breastfeeding akin to molesting infants... Which is a very strange cultural phenomenon.

[@DavidRoberts]

Yeah, didn't bother me either. It didn't feel weird, it happens around our home at present at the drop of a hat. I found harping on the "we didn't need that detail" a bit ... unnecessary. Ar-Pharazôn telling Kemen about what should be an intimate time he had with his lost mother and using it to manipulate his just shows how twisted Pharazôn can be. A very effective piece of dialogue, not something icky.

[@Novajomo]

I had a chuckle at Maggie "Shushing" Corey at 1:07:30.

[@vernontk]

Loved that! 🤫😆

[@JLaSala2112]

This episode in particular has been cathartic!

[@ZivaLight]

Corey is so chaotic 😂

[@veronicathornton4413]

This commentary discussion brought so much unabashed joy to me. Thank you all for doing this. Love the discussion and deep thought. As a mental health therapist, my job is recognizing patterns of interaction and meaning in people’s lives. So I throughly enjoyed hearing a group of intelligent people doing the same in such a fun subject. Thank you!!! And I will waiting patiently for the next video.

[@MarcRitzMD]

Nerd of the RIngs, the saving grace

[@TheRex4ever]

Gotta be honest, being disgusted by the mere mention of breast feeding is entirely a weird position to take.

[@rachelleighfreeland]

My favorite retrospective so far!! Better equal sharing of talk time and everyone seemed more relaxed and themselves 😄. It’s helpful to hear different perspectives and how they either enlighten someone or they just respectfully/teasingly disagree 👍🏻👍🏻

[@jacobwilliams6545]

Good fun. Would love to hear more from the guests. There’s also lots of verbal interruptions which make it hard to follow at times but I am grateful you all did this

[@KnudAutlermann]

When talking about Arondir's death scene: Corey being the serious professor and Matt being the class goof

[@mtank31]

All the guests have been great in these retrospectives, but shoutout to Matt in particular. I get the impression that he's not as well versed in academic-style media analysis as some of the others, but he's clearly absorbing some of the scene analysis explanations byt Corey and Maggie while still sticking by his opinions. He epitomises some of the problems with the show, in that he's clearly someone with intelligence, but does not want to formally pick apart every scene, and forms his opinions based on a nuanced view of what he's seeing in real-time (I'll admit I'm making assumptions here). Yes, unless you're aiming for mindless entertainment (note, please don't do this), you might not ever be able to produce something that certain types of people will understand and engage with, and yeah, even with a lack of good execution, you may always be able to get the academics like Corey appreciating your intentions, but this middle area is the segment of the audience that you should really be targeting, and ideally someone like Matt should have way less problems with the show if you're doing it right. You need to be able to give us the breadcrumbs that give clues to your intention without needing a frame-by-frame analysis.

[@kiffermachon]

Damn is it christmas already? so much of you guys these days!

[@rebmoti1]

Corey helpfully supplies head canon to close the plot holes.

[@MrZurbagiu]

my thought is that arondir was probably healed by gil-galad & ring off screen

[@Max1990Power]

But it would have been nice to see that.

[@atticmuse3749]

yeah apparently the showrunners felt it wasn't a serious wound and Arondir had those comments in season 1 about Elves naturally healing easily, so they thought it was a non-issue and were surprised people were confused by it. I knew he wasn't dead, as was noted that we see him still moving, but I definitely wasn't expecting him to be running around fine next time we saw him, so my head canon is Gil-galad healed him.

[@DavidRoberts]

Given that we see Gil-galad instantly know how to 'use' Vilya to try to heal Galadriel, I assumed he'd already used it for Arondir and was already 'warmed up' in how it goes. Something to ask the showrunners, I think! Or, better: Prime Video - BTS and deleted scenes in physical media extras, please!!

[@sdl1ishappy]

I am so glad you guys are doing this. I too have this experience with this show where I think - uh, I'm not sure I am on board with that thing - then it occurs to me later or on a second watch that that thing was actually brilliant and fits right in with the show's themes. Don't get me wrong, I love the show, but I think it's really working on a different plane than most fantasy viewers are used to. It's Lord of the Rings as art film, with all that entails good, bad and wow that's something. Thank you for this project, too and be sure to email JD & Patrick and tell them how much so many of us are looking forward to the third season.

[@TipsyBoy101]

art film 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 i hope you are joking. I don’t mind RoP but calling it arthouse or any form of auteur is a joke, it’s an Amazon backed commercialised fantasy show that has not fared into the abstract or extraordinary at all

[@mohamalan]

On the Arondir injury, didn't Rondir say in season 1 to Bronwyn that elves heal easily or something like that. I was using that as the main reason he survived without effort. Have to agree with Corey here.

[@WolvesbaneNetwork]

Yeah I gotta agree with Corey there, arondir being fine is just typical action movie language. Not only that but it's really not the craziest death fakeout in a lord of the rings adaptation. It's also not even the craziest thing an elf has survived in both adaptation and original text. Arondir doesn't even do any fighting afterwards if I recall

[@WDaleCebula]

i dont get the negative reaction to the nameless thing. the scene allowed for us to see estrid be a "good guy" it gave isildur another encounter with the strangeness of middle earth and it allowed us to see the nature of the elves. it accomplished quite a bit and i thought the actiony part of it was fun

[@ericmckenzie1221]

Absolutely perfect ending to Rings and Realms season 2

[@Mallarkey]

Theo for a Nazgul; he's been ensnared by a desire for power and lusted after a magic evil sword already. Ripe for being corrupted by that King of the Southlands, and he doesn't know that's really Sauron yet.

[@morrgash]

Great panel and great debate 😊

[@marjoe32]

Thank God y'all got to shoot on set lol 😊

[@WDaleCebula]

the scene with arondir was meant to show adar kick his butt and then adar walk away. remember that arondir remarks in season 1 that elves heal

[@thimbur3543]

Would the dancing bear belong to Simon Smith? (One for the oldies there.) 😜

[@arezoum1366]

I can see that Kemen sends Astrid to be sacrificed in the temples to torment Isildur.

[@Chociewitka]

do not think so, no time. Isildur need at least one son (in the original he had 4) at the end of the show for Aragorn to be his patrilinear descendant. There is no time for him to have a proper marriage in the show, seeing how slow he progresses, so Estrid will probably be found being with his child soon instead.

[@danieldunbar2956]

Great discussion!

[@Mallarkey]

I was thinking Estrid's "betrothed" for the King of the Dead. He's also set up as a leader of some of the people plus he'll have a motive to get back at Isildur for pinching his fiancée.

[@Chociewitka]

indeed, this could be also the case

[@ejd5261]

This is what I’m thinking right now! The leader of the wildmen will be King of the Dead. Theo will embrace his mother’s herbalism and, with some nudges from Sauron, choose to “heal middle earth” and become the Witch King. If that happens I’ll cry! 😭

[@ejd5261]

Theo could still become witch king 🤴🏻 not king of the dead, because his mother was regarded as something of a witch- she was an herbalist and healer. If Theo goes down the path of healing/herbalism/witch skills at any point in this series…I think we’ll have our answer! Perhaps Sauron will come along and nudge him to use his witchery to “heal” middle earth? And give him a ring to expand his powers?? 💍 In that case, the leader of the wildmen, Estrid’s betrothed, could be King of the Dead.

[@TheTolkienCurmudgeon]

Does Professor Olsen actually many times feel like saying 'What? That doesn't make any sense!" and cringe and roll his eyes about "The Rings of Power"? I hope so! Anyway, I celebrate the less uncritical tone of some of the commentary. Hurray!

[@Demandroid]

At 29:00 - I wonder, Corey, if you bringing the strict interpretation of oaths quote "in Tolkien" and applying them to Estrid's betrothal slightly does was you occasionally gently chide others for in these discussions, namely assuming the reality of "Book Tolkien" into the show uncritically?

[@jj48]

I think we have reason to believe within the show itself that oaths are rather significant.

[@Tar-Elenion]

The difference is that Olsen brings "in Tolkien"' to justify the show. NotR and Sisto were using "in Tolkien" to critique the show.

[@TristenSarelvun]

@@Tar-Elenion Professor Olsen does both, _and_ recognizes where the show deviates from Tolkien in ways that are incompatible. Also remember this isn't scripted like their actual analysis; this is a live discussion where people practically can't think every single thing they say through ahead of time.

[@Tar-Elenion]

@@TristenSarelvun Yeah, I recall him recognizing the show 'deviating from Tolkien' in S01E05. I also recall him taking back that 'recognition' in S02E01. He did that by retconning it in his own head. But normally he just declares Tolkien said things he did not, or never said things he did. Or by mischaraterizing what Tolkien wrote.

[@jj48]

Another great session! I have to admit, though, I really don't get the hate some people have toward the Harfoots.

[@davidbeer5015]

I feel like the main point I can understand, even if not agree, is disliking how disjointed their story feels from the rest and wishing that time had been given to the other storylines.

[@JrrrNikolaus]

Agreed, the Harfoots are the origin of the Hobbits, how is that not fun.

[@jj48]

@@JrrrNikolaus Not only that, but I think they're offering a different perspective from the other stories. Back in season 1, their view of death when Sadoc died contrasted with the views that the Numenoreans seem to have, and the attitudes of the Elves toward fading.

[@adpirtle]

I think some people feel they don't belong in a story about the Second Age, and that they're taking up screen time which could be used to tell the stories of the Second Age that people are more interested in seeing. Personally, I disagree, since hobbits are supposed to have been around since the Elder Days, and the fact that they don't feature in any Second Age legends makes me even more interested in what they might have been up to.

[@mparrad]

The thing here is, if the writers want us to pay attention to the level of details these schollars are talking (and some times lost of), then they are going too deep for a non-book-readers....

[@mrs.manrique7411]

Around @34:30 I COMPLETELY AGREE that the kissing is portrayed as not a good thing. I think the only people who think it’s good are those who desire the relationship more than Estrid’s safety or consent and/or those who only see the Numenoreans as good guys. Isildur and Kemen are practically the same person, except one isn’t yet a murderer (though Isildur might feel like one due to his mother’s death). These parallels are the main reason I believe that Kemen will be the witch king. Estrid and Isildur feels like a future King David and Bathsheba situation. Broken oaths aren’t just on the low man side of things… Continuing the “portrayal of bad things”…not only are all the kisses bad/uncomfortable, but many of the other actions are clearly not good. Like when Galadriel punched her own face in season 1, people thought it meant she was good and tough. When it really meant she had self hatred. Lots of misunderstandings in the audience thinking everyone is good, when the point is that not anyone is really good (except Tom Bombadil).

[@mrs.manrique7411]

I also believe Eärien is important, as she may be the “Miriel chooses to side with and marry Pharazon” storyline. Her and Kemen are not pointless in season 1.

[@Chociewitka]

and this makes the story pointless, as neither side winning means anything for making the world better - this is the reason why many in the audience root for Sauron to win and root anybody else out, at least then there would be same closure to the whole frustrating mess

[@WDaleCebula]

hagen will make a good wraith

[@DavidRoberts]

Corey deliberately not rising to Alan's comment about the show using a name from Tal-Elmar.

[@benjacobs3820]

"Why is it important to Arondir? " "Because it's his stomach!" Brilliant!! 😂😂😂

[@ReeseCraven]

1:06:39 It felt like Arondir took a “mortal” wound because it went slo-mo. Slow motion in LOTR means death.

[@Fleuz]

Am I the only one who thinks Arondir got stuck with an arrow?

[@bambulkomccloud3983]

No Talk about Shelob?

[@jarenhoffman5134]

Tolkien really didn't like men all that much, did he? In reading the books as well as hearing Corey's joke about how "Nazgul or death" in regards to humankind. Am I missing something?

[@Ms.Murchison]

I love these shows, and I really enjoy the additional perspectives with the special guests. I think Corey's comment about "Beleg," though, is a really good example about how he brings in lore to justify choices, but in Part 2, he was giving Alan a hard time for bringing in lore to justify critiques. I'm not saying either one of them is absolutely right and the other is wrong, but I don't understand why it's okay to apply lore and when not. What's the rubric, folks? :) I'm lacking the inner consistency. :)

[@jj48]

I think the problem with many of the criticisms is that they're essentially just saying that something is different, therefore it's bad. There's nothing wrong with saying that something doesn't match, but not matching, in itself, is not a flaw. You may still dislike it, and it may even still be a bad choice, but it's not simply being different that makes it bad; and I think it's diving past that surface level and getting to the heart that is Corey's concern. In contrast, when pointing out how the text has influenced the show, I don't hear Corey claiming that referencing the text automatically makes it good (and he has still been critical of some of those points).

[@Ms.Murchison]

@@jj48 Thanks, that makes a bit more sense to me. :)

[@Chociewitka]

38.25 the show seems to imply that Isildur is o.k. with breaking oaths towards others while he is very strict when one s broken to him - picturing him as self-centered hypocrite who is fine in seducing a betrothed woman, ignoring the oaths he know she had sworn ("betrothed" means someone who had pledged his/her troth, this is not a mere engagement, where one just proclaims one's plans to marry in future, a betrothal is an "pre-marriage" in its consequences - this is a reason why it is a mostly abandoned custom nowadays), but then curses people into a millennia long undead existence once they break an oath they swore to him

[@davidbeer5015]

I mean, that could be an element of growth, where over time he recognizes the weight of such things. Or yes, it could be hypocrisy for the story. Or it could be tied to a sense of emotional reaction.. the kiss with Estrid being an emotional moment between them that overwhelms better judgment, and the oathbreakers pulling on his anger, especially depending on the reason they don’t arrive.

[@Chociewitka]

@@davidbeer5015 a man with no impulse control - you mean? - not a suitable king material...

[@davidbeer5015]

@Chociewitka Merely an option. Not my preferred one, but I could see it possibly being that way. Personally, I’d go with the growth/“learning to value oaths” path. Whether they’d touch on that aspect and the weight of oaths and their consequences, we’ll have to wait and see.

[@Chociewitka]

@@davidbeer5015 Still hypocritical - as "learning to value oaths" would be to learn to respect ones oneself, not to demand others to do it and punish them cruelly when they don't. That is not "growth", that is entitelment and resentment. Well, if he would curse them after he got the One Ring, that maybe might be a sign of his corruption... And how can they leave out "the weight of oaths and their consequences" - as that is the pivotl point in the Oathbreakers' story? Oathbreakers were part of the PJ movies, RoP cannot leave them out.

[@davidbeer5015]

@Chociewitka said growth I propose would include “learn to reflect ones oneself.” His own oaths made, and oaths made to him.

[@mtank31]

Many of the issues with execution have to do with immersion. Things that require deep thought or rewatches aren’t necessarily breaking the immersion. Questions like “that’s unexpected, I wonder what it means or how it works?” can actually bring you deeper into the _world_ even while it interrupts the flow of the story. On the other hand saying “this feels wrong” and having to force yourself into a rewatch to realise it makes sense on some level (and many people won’t even go to that effort) pulls you out of both the story and the world, and really is immersion-breaking which causes disappointment or negative reactions. RoP does the latter too much and the former not enough, which is I think what it really means when you say poorly executed. Now different people are going to interpret these things differently, so you can’t necessarily know where the poorly-executed/well-executed line is, but I think the show makes some really poor decisions. Tom Bombadil recycling (pre-cycling?) Gandalf’s own quote is a great one. There needed to be more clues in the way that was presented in order to pick up that there was something more to this quote than what it meant at the time. Even something as simple as Gandalf expressing some doubt when he’s told that line. No Corey, I’m not going to conclude that the quote is a misdirect simply because of the context in which it is used, like you did. You used questionable means to arrive at the right end result. 🙂 For me, I don’t have enough trust in the writers to rule out it just being clumsy dialog, so I need more than that - proof of intent I guess. Something I think was handled well? The “mithril” that Sauron gave Celebrimbor. There were plenty of clues that something more was going on here so when you asked yourself “where did the mithril come from?” it was as a question to be stored away (or speculated on) until you were given the answer, and not as an accusation directed at the showrunners. I wrongly assumed he had deceived Narvi or one of the other dwarves to hand it over, but the point is that I never saw it as a "mistake" on the part of the show because of how it was framed. Interestingly, one thing I didn’t have an issue with was the nameless thing in the mud puddle (bad dinner joke aside), but I’m not convinced it was because it was handled better. My immediate reaction was to compare it to the Watcher in the Water, which I’ve always thought/assumed was one of the nameless things itself, driven to the surface for some reason, so it was an simple leap for me to make. I figure plenty of people won’t have had that easy a time with it though, so you're right that a small dialog change could have helped contextualise it better. Ie, "There are nameless things in the deep places of the world, and it is said that great evil can draw them to the surface. There is no way I will call nameless thing Dinner because it trivialises the significance of this event and plus it could be poisonous"

[@alexkats30]

At the 18th minute, the Nerd we all love shows up

[@68mlk]

So, if these predictions are right, in S5 we will probably see Isildur on the battlefield desperately repeating, "Theo will come, Theo will come..."

[@johnw1743]

Corey’s determination to see depth of plot and nuance of writing in the face of all the evidence is truly admirable.

[@aresaurelian]

Whatever we are led to believe in the accounts written in the books available to J.R.R. Tolkien (by Tom perhaps), we cannot assume that they are perfect or absolutely honest from every perspective. I love these sessions, @Rings and Realms. Keep up the good work.

[@manyfeathers9216]

Way tooo much rambling, umming & ahhhing at the beginnjng of this episode. Were 20min in & almost nothing has been said

[@Tar-Elenion]

Oropher is a Sinda*. (A-RoP may not have the rights, as Oropher is in UT, not LotR or TH). In the show there has been no mention of *Silvan Elves (and Arondir has said he is from *Beleriand, Silvan Elves are from the vales of the Anduin). And likening Arondir to Beleg**. hmm.. "but Beleg yet breathed in blood drenchéd aswoon, till the sun to the South hastened and the eye of day was opened wide. Then he woke and wondered, and weeping took him, and to Túrin Thalion his thoughts were turned, that o’erborne in battle and bound he had seen. Then he crawled from the corpses that had covered him over, weary, wounded, too weak to stand. So Thingol’s thanes athirst and bleeding in the forest found him: his fate willed not that he should drink the draught of death from foes. Thus they bore him back in bitter torment his tidings to tell in the torchlit halls of Thingol the king; in the Thousand Caves to be healéd whole by the hands enchanted of Melian Mablui, the moonlit queen. Ere a week was outworn his wounds were cure HoMe III, Lay of the Chidren of Hurin The version where he is wounded severely, he is carried back to Doriath and Melian heals him. The version in CoH just says he was wounded, it does not indicate severity: "Beleg who was wounded was bound likewise, but he was laid on the ground with wrists and ankles tied to iron pins driven in to the rock." *which brings to mind a previous assertion by the self-declared "Tolkien Professor": _We have exactly two named characters of the Silvan Elves, Legolas' dad and Legolas' grandpa_ **Noting that you are appealing to the books, while you criticized others for appealing to the books

[@Chociewitka]

actually Silvan would be Nimrodel - and then Mitrellas - out of other Sindar ruling Silvan we do have Amdir Malgalad and Amroth also - but they will probably cut those

[@Tar-Elenion]

@@Chociewitka Correct. Taking Olsen's claim that Oropher and Thranduil are Silvan Elves as a given, then so to should be Amdir/Malgalad and Amroth (there could be rights issues with both Oropher and Amdir). Not only is there Nimrodel (in LotR) and Mithrellas (UT, thus rights issues), there is also Haldir and his brothers Orophin and Rumil (LotR); and there is Galion (Hobbit).

[@mtank31]

To your last sentence, I think it's splitting hairs a bit, but Corey is correct. It is OK to use the text as a tool to understand the show, but he's right that we cannot assume that there will be absolute logical consistency with the text. For example, we may say "well that scene doesn't work because in the first age blah blah", but we may learn later, from a flashback or something that the showrunners reimagined that first age thing, and it _is_ internally consistent with the other event in the show, but just not accurate or consistent with the text and being an adaptation, it doesn't strictly have to be. An extreme example is that Isildur could die in the show. That would be a HUGE error in judgement, but it could certainly be done without breaking the internal consistency _within the show_ . If Isildur was to die, Corey or anyone else could legitimately say that we shouldn't make judgments on the validity of that decision based on what we know about the Lord of the Rings book or movies, because that is a separate story. All we can say is that it doesn't line up with that _separate work_ as we know it, and because of that it is an exceptionally poor decision, but it is a _valid_ one. BTW, I think the comment came off as patronising, but I don't think it was intended that way.

[@qcrew2938]

I love your insight but dam you guys are spoiling a lot for the future of this show! Never in a million years did I think Theo would be King of the Dead and now that moment is ruined for me if it comes true. You know way too much so I think I'm out on this channel

[@JrrrNikolaus]

It's just speculation, I don't think you need to fear. There will be plenty of surprise still to come.

[@TristenSarelvun]

That was just speculation, but practically every single video on this channel begins with a disclaimer stating that they _will_ be spoiling the books and, likely, the show.

[@Chociewitka]

? all his talks about "promises to keep" lets few other options in the show

[@mhdz]

Shame.

[@JrrrNikolaus]

Pride

[@stevenmcmullan409]

Maybe therapy would help you?

[@ScriptIdeas697]

Thanks again for the Algorithm boost! 🫂

[@annafdd]

bigger yawn yet.