Riot, What Have You Done to Mid Lane?

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[@Uthael_Kileanea]

You reminded me of fencing. It devolved from swordplay into "we both get hit, but I win if you get hit 1 ms sooner".

[@shiraitsukki]

I fucking hate Olympics Fencing for this very reason

[@luk4aaaa]

People solved the game.

[@Heightren]

​@@luk4aaaapeople optimized the fun out of the game

[@phoenixfire9176]

The solution: real swords, first blood wins

[@derechte6086]

Still takes a ton of technique to be faster - itll evolve eventually again I feint a little more to make those fast twitching mf regret outspeeding me

[@earakankuruparan6278]

I heckin love dropping my slow push lane into recall to help the jungler do crab then engage some random invade and lose game :)

[@DjBobozWodogłowiem]

If u fuck up ur lane so bad like that ur bad

[@obvioustrash7833]

to be fair, that means you just messed up your wave management. You gotta time your crashes with crab timers

[@earakankuruparan6278]

@@obvioustrash7833 crab isn't always the play tho. It depends on if fighting the 2v2 is actually advantageous to your team in that moment. Sometimes yes, but often no depending on champs. If you stack wave and crash and the opponent goes to help with crab, the opponent loses hella XP and a free recall for crab and mid is over

[@zezanje1]

i mean just dont join???

[@earakankuruparan6278]

@@zezanje1 You're right, that is usually the correct play but odds are that tilts your jungler to ruin the game later. Junglers post s9 are insanely entitled to having mids be their slave

[@yasoumain3902]

"Laning" against an Akali with Fleet footwork, Absurd Base-HP regen, Dorans shield, Second wind, refillable potion, TP and Mercs is super fun as a mage! Great design!

[@quaderex3420]

She has more regen than Garen at this point lmao. On most mages you go oom before you can kill her. At least you can farm first strike before the next patch

[@westonprice6272]

@@quaderex3420 also that bitchs lands an e and youre dead. And the fact that she has like 3k hp lategame without items with high resistances and a 3 flash range r.

[@poom323]

Not just regen, she actually has second highest base mr in game, only behind Talon by little bit, but she has shround to evade damage abilities, combined with tank like amount of hp, these make technically one of the tankiest champion against magic damage.

[@dtstar331]

The funniest thing about Akali is that she can go DShield + Second Wind because her base damage is more than enough to kill you Early in the game, she's essentially a tank with damage and mobility of an assassin

[@redeal6581]

Yeah but as a mage you have such a huge range advantage you can just sit behind minions for her E and do nothing all lane, it's boring on both sides because getting poked until you are forced to recall is even less fun, at least melee champs are able to exist in the lane against mages with infinite poke especially with the disgusting new burn items and bs.

[@ahmedhossam3993]

the funny thing is, these sustain options exist for top and they are not nearly enough in top vs ranged top

[@meo8258]

Its coz ranged top are usually adcs where the damage is in autos but midlane mages have to trade with abilities and in early game mana is hard to regen back

[@99temporal]

They absolutely are(for the most part... They weren't a while back when varus top was at full force, and maybe now they aren't with tf top, but that's about it... All other matchups are manageable)

[@Rydlan]

@@meo8258 mana is a fake stat

[@meo8258]

@@Rydlan how so

[@themegaladon18]

​@99temporal I mean you are not going equal in cs like azzap states. They nerfed shield regen and second wind like a year ago, you cannot even come close to taking an auto or two for every cs

[@NewWestwood]

It's a flawed concept in game theory called "The Balance in the Imbalance." It doesn't take into account the fun or quality of the game. The idea is that by constantly changing things, the game will always feel fresh and take longer to become boring. That's why they're constantly shifting everything. They don't care if certain metas (x, y, z) are overpowered; they just want you to keep studying and wasting your time on the game indefinitely.

[@eightywight]

I figured that out in season 4. Riot buffs and nerfs, not because champions need it, but in order to change which champions are being played, in order to kepp people's attention.

[@purplc6824]

so true, quitting this game 3 years ago was best decision in my life

[@balthasar369]

game is not about fun its about making money. those people are like sharks once they smell blood your done

[@zoramarslink5788]

Which is why I enjoy league. I want a constantly changing meta.

[@purplc6824]

@@zoramarslink5788 meta slave detected

[@santir2396]

This is just general league. Personal agency and skill expression were completely pummeled to the ground in the last 5 seasons. Toplane became a coinflip lane, if you first pick you insta lose becouse Riot keeps nerfing safe picks into being unreliable so second picking is basically a free win lane button. Botlane became a braindead oneshot cheese lane where a support lands a single CC ability and Caitlyn follows up with a trap instakill combo or you get Jinx chompered or Varus ulted or Nami gives Lucian a single E and you get oneshot level 2. In Jungle you can literally just clear camps with one hand and 90% of the times you leave a failed gank, do one camp and you're back to full HP

[@lucsas9277]

your view of the game is so delusional, yes the game state is bad, but it always has been, you do realize that people have complained ever since s1? top lane isnt coinflip, its just the most mechanical lane, jungle is super hard and i cant jjst state everything thst goes into it in a sibgle comment, you basically just need perfect game logic and map awareness and always question yourself, adc, i agree, is a stupid role and everybody agrees, support was broken af but now its okay, and mid idk much abt but the game rn is pretty good tbh

[@angstyteen1215]

@@lucsas9277top lane skill matchup? You’ve never played urgot into tryn, maokai into fiora, riven into poppy

[@neocalamity3459]

​​@@lucsas9277 top lane is such a coinflip that other roles are starting to initiate or accept priority swaps just so their toplaner is not counterpicked. You could say other roles do that with each other as well but the swap is almost 90% the top laner and whoever is last in the list. And yes fundamentals are an important thing so a good chogath who knows fundamentals can beat a mediocre Sett or Gangplank anyday but the second his primary counterpicks have any small idea how to stifle or cripple cho, unwinnable. You lose the only scaling you could possibly achieve, they know to build slow resistance, they know your q range. Best example: Cho vs Kayle. Cho manages to bush check Kayle and he can mostly run her down and potentially kill. Kayle is face to face with Cho? She kills him over time getting stronger as time passes.

[@thelitmango6333]

Played since season 3 and the bot lane thing has always been that way, also top lane has felt the same since the old days, difference is plates and the buff to tower gold and bounties. You can play macro a lot easier now cause you're rewarded way more. Going 0/5 in top lane was way worse back then, also people threw back then but it wasn't as bad cause no bounties. But now a days you're actually encouraged to play better then the enemy cause if you die its more detrimental if you're the carry. Also don't forget in mid lane LeBlanc was one of the most popular along with kassadin cause LeBlanc had a 2 second silence with no counterplay and kassadin also had a silence. Old league balancing was ass everyone here is lookin through rose tinted glasses. Also can't forget ahri buying dethfire grasp and her E having a 20 percent magic resist debuff. So she'd death fire grasp you after charming you and one shot you. Idk why a velkoz main would be happy about old league mid lane, all the old mid laners that were popular completely bodied velkoz. I think azzap just has nostalgia glasses on and isn't seeing it for what it actually was, which was a less skillfull version of league that was way more unbalanced then current league is. Don't also forget season 5 Warwick with red smile, where all he had to do was smite you and point and click ult you then you died instantly. Also don't forget wrigglers latern yi and udyr, where they could feed 0/5 and go into their jungle to farm all game and be stronger then your 10/0 Vayne or you're 8/2 renekton with perfect cs. How you're talking about jg is why udyr and yi and xin were some of the more popular jugglers cause they could clearly quickly and healthy, same with Warwick. All they've done is allowed other jgs that have lack luster sustain be able to sustain in the jg, something people wanted in old league because you could only play specific jgs due to their clear speed and how healthy they'd be.

[@Ryogogen]

It's actually crazy how accurate this is.

[@justsomeguythatwantssometh9986]

Still remember how Doinb obliterated IG to oblivion with Predator Rumble mid. Bro is zooming across the map torching everyone.

[@ataberk3539]

zooming across the map touching everyone.

[@theguardianwolf7206]

Bruh I had to play against rumble mid and that shit gave me cancer.

[@samuel-nq6he]

​@theguardianwolf7206 it's even worse in top lol most matchups are unplayable and the few that are is still just 0 fun

[@Olenderman]

Music: Veridis Quo by Draft Punk I didn't see a direct mention like that yet so I wrote it down. Hf

[@potatocasseroli]

thank you 🙏

[@Kittenbabe]

Thanks

[@oguzindahauz]

Dude I just came down to comments if someone wrote the name of the song. I hear it sometimes but suddenly I wanted to know the name of it and you saved me, thank you so much

[@Olenderman]

@@oguzindahauz you're very welcome

[@nolesabesxd6159]

Thanks❤❤

[@luisfelipehserrano6176]

They inverted the power of jungle and mid champions in a way that made jungle even mire broken. And yet you try to "quickplay" and see that nobody plays the role. They can't figure out how to make the role more fun so they keep it giga strong.

[@munteanucatalin9833]

Jungle is not STRONG compared to other roles. It is GOOD in pro play (but behind those busted ADC's). Despite this, Jungle feels and plays bad in ranked games. This is the only role i can constantly play at diamond level and even at that level, most games seem like a complete coin flip from the jungle perspective.

[@dingleberrychipchapichuta]

​@@munteanucatalin9833 Jungle has been the best role in soloQ by far for seasons and still is, hate to break it to you but you might just be bad at jungle if you feel like jungle is coin flip

[@westonprice6272]

@@munteanucatalin9833 brother, top 10 every server has like 7 junglers end of season.

[@Helloing69]

Jungle is the hardest role, if the enemy jungle is just a little better than you 99% of the time your game will be miserable

[@Helloing69]

​@@dingleberrychipchapichutaonly adcs and top laner think jungle is coinflip

[@sevaneken3461]

Its bcs nowadays orianna with aery scorch and lost chapter pokes you for 25% of your hp. Without sustain it would be useless to play a melee champ mid

[@Narum18]

Thats the point of mid lane

[@shanzelo]

get better? that lane is easy, she s not in an ok spot rn

[@Elysiean]

@@shanzelo man up

[@MakZkovich]

​@@shanzelosomeone never played vs a human ori ig

[@joaobrito2653]

Wasn’t aware that orjanna stars the the game with lost chapter! Great reasoning for sure

[@StarcraftSwarm]

The good old day when an assassin actually had the damage to solokill when enemy mage missplayed, and solokills were actually punishing whereas today you lose 3-4 minions after being dead for 4 seconds, tp back and the solokill barely even matters. Nowadays you just have to accept you lose lane and wait for lucky skirmishes or for your jungler and support to play around mid which very rarely happens and basically puts most of the agency of midlane into support and jungle's hands. The change to make mid minion waves crash at the same time as sidelanes also made the lane extremely boring because you are forced into taking tp every game on assassins and god forbid you roam bot once without getting a triple kill, you will be behind in exp for the rest of the game.

[@Ceracio]

Riot seem to really struggle at balancing assassins. They went from "good at punishing mistakes" to "can one-shot basically anything at level 6 even if opponent never makes a mistake" to what they are now. I remember really enjoying playing Zed mid back in S4-S5 when your R placed the shadow behind the target because you had reliable burst but couldn't just monkey-dive everyone because you didn't have a "get out of jail free" button. I also remember HATING Qiyana for a while after her release because she could 100-0 any midlaner with an undodgeable combo (that also stunned you for the duration) at level 6 with Serrated Dirk and nothing else. Literally if you ever got into Flash-E range you WERE dead and couldn't do anything about it.

[@remveel2443]

The craziest thing is, most people at that "golden era" said it was the worst era. This is the moment I realized that League players just wanna say what they want to shit on the current position of the game. I started not even wanting to hear their opinion of "golden days". Bro just play or not play 😂

[@Kuuga12-gc1gp]

on me bro back in the day like every mage shit on velkoz

[@sycariummoonshine7134]

As a Leb main my golden era was when Leblanc had Silence in her Q, making her have 6 seconds silence uptime with qrq. But you never played that, because her qrwer killed them anyway. XD (now leblanc has been D-B tier for past all seasons)

[@Swagner]

fr they acting like second wind and fleet hasnt existed for abt 7 years this shits ridonkulous

[@TooTallDesk]

I remember all these exact complaints back in season 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7…

[@ddomni8199]

neverending story. league was better yada yada yada

[@marcusjohnson8649]

But back then the game was new and Riot’s identity was still small, they didnt even know what they wanted league to be. Now though it’s seeming like the outlying issues of back then are what theyre promoting as the norm now. They removed problems of old, and in many cases just put them back in recently. That’s why it feels bad. My biggest gripe is the entire community SCREAMING not to do the mythic item bs. And they put us through two years of the most boring baby cage builds on earth before just removing it. It’s hypocritical shit like that that makes league boomers mad

[@SiMeGamer]

​@@marcusjohnson8649Or maybe, just maybe, the idea of mythics is cool and you have to try it before you ignore it. Innovation happens when you say yes to things that might not work, giving them a chance, and trying to make them work. Sometimes you succeed and sometimes you fail. They weren't able to do it and gave it enough time and the best thing is, they learned why it dodnt work and the hard limitations that the system imposed on them. I believe the last big Mythic change was in the middle of 2023 when they changed the ADC items and once that didn't work, they had to wait to start of season (effectively keeping the Mythic system alive for an extra 6 months). If you don't take a risk on an idea that might not work, you will never innovate. People cry about old Akali fresh out of her rework, not understanding that the point is to see the limits of a kit. In hindsight it's easy to see why her shroud is broken considering everything else, which is probably what Riot thought too, but you don't know for certain because you need the champion on Live servers to properly test it. It was giga broken and they removed it very quickly. No harm no foul. If Riot would've never pushed boundaries, we would've never gotten Sylas or Viego or Briar or Renata Glasc or many other champs, items and mechanics. I played since season 2. I love League now more than ever. I personally think the game is in a great state. It's still very individual when it comes to carrying. This absurd take on sustain in lane is so stupid. You can definitely get Akali out of lane. And if all she gets is CS then she is technically behind because assassins are balanced around getting kills. They are supposed to be the class the gets the most first bloods and it is still the case. But a great mage doesn't give it to them. Is League perfect? Far from it. But it's in a perfectly fine state. All I hear is people trying to make it not change or innovate or improve and just bring "the old times" back when people didn't know how to fking play. The skill level of players has increased on average so much that, bringing back those old game states is absurd. You can't do a proper comparison without taking it into account. Heck, watch Pro from that time. A lot of stuff there isnt vwry impressive by today's standards. I'm not trying to be antagonistic here and lick Riot's boots. I just find most arguments to be so shallow in regards to game design and balance.

[@Lin_Nascimento]

The small indie company just can't fix the game, so sad :(

[@fernando4959]

so it gets worse every season? sick

[@alexguyson129]

God you’re so right . if a mid gap is too heavy just gets ruined mid gets to go to both sides of the map and when yours is outclassed it’s super hard to play the game even getting a mid that’s even in lane helps so much

[@fernando4959]

is that not support role or am I trippin?

[@liano9711]

It's genuinely maddening to get massive lane advantages with a mage and seeing the Akali/Fizz/Zed that's even or down just wait for my inevitable recall, just shove lane and get fed off of my bot, jg or top and then come back 500 gold ahead, leaving me with an unwinnable lane

[@ignacioperez5479]

Yeah, and that sucks for bot too. There is no worst feeling for an ADC to have the 0/8 assasin oneshoting You with your support because assasin

[@ST-in7fo]

​@@ignacioperez5479he's not gonna do it if you respect the roam timer, and if she doesn't get anything she also loses her recall opportunity and it's likely gonna be poked to death as mid returns in lane

[@crazy75able]

@@ST-in7fo "respecting" only works in higher elo, because you are basically losing a bit of advantage so that your mid gets a bit more advantage. The overall gold/exp diff will be positive for your team, but you have to play for yourself more the lower you are.

[@Swagner]

its not gonna change the game has been this way since launch, ppl are just better now than back then

[@armas2k193]

i aint seen a single short that has missed with the music. Verdis Quo always has been my fav from Discovery (Aerodynamic is a hella close second)

[@DRida64]

I was saying the same thing in a discord call last week. Mages being pushed out of the mid lane is saddening. The old norm was also way more interesting to watch on the esport side.

[@netnooker]

"Mages being pushed out of midlane" - FALSE❌️ "Mages I like not being meta currently" - TRUE✅️

[@DRida64]

@netnooker oh, I myself don't play summoners rift. What I know from friends and watching streamers is that assassins and hwei are most of what is in mid. If you aren't counter picking, most mages tend to falter.

[@ZphyraRyuu]

I like it tho, swaps up the meta. Maybe we’ll start seeing adcs mid and mages/sup bot like in forever ago.

[@ambiguousspotlightofinsani6764]

@@DRida64 that's just not true, there is one meta assassin (Akali) and everyone else is a mage. Fizz is counterpick only, other options are pretty useless unless they get lucky and fetch kills from bot

[@Arxhangxl]

⁠@@netnookerNot really. I don’t care for Ziggs but to say he’s gonna function midlane in high elo is delusional. No mobility to roam or rotate, spells too slow they’re easily dodged by all the dashes, no cc to peel himself from jungle bruisers like Udyr or Bel’Veth or top lane/support roams. He’s much better off farming first strike procs on braindead botlaners and trying to poke them out of lane for his W and passive on platings.

[@Traubenbecher]

back in my day!

[@partel933]

Ur the youngest league player.

[@XX-yh4fq]

@@partel933 in league beta trist mid (and corki/adc) was very common, but it wasnt because she would perma push :/

[@baal8938]

I remember playing mid with asol before any of the reworks and it was peak fun for me. to this day i'm still coping

[@HaPKoMaTo3]

Yeah, 5x archangel+ rabadon cap, revive TP karthus or ryze were so crazy back in the day.

[@krzysztofwasiluk481]

Oh, that is true. I play mainly different mages mid (Vel'koz, Ahri, Swain, Lux, Hwei, Brand, but also something like Galio) and I feel as a support. Even if I get ahead in lane I somehow end most of my matches with stats like 6/5/14 and mostly follow my teammates to help them. The exception is Swain, because when you are fed enough you become a 1v5 monster with your R 😅

[@Gabriel_custodio195]

And then there's me playing Morgana mid due to this very issue.

[@munteanucatalin9833]

@@Gabriel_custodio195 Morgana mid was (and still is) one of the safest option for MID. She wasn't viable on mid only in 3 seasons (five, six and nine)

[@darkdemon9013]

@@munteanucatalin9833 Pretty sure Morg has been a weak pick in any role (aside from the odd couple of patches where she's been playable in jungle) for quite a while. You're not going to be doing anything with Morg mid that you wouldnt be able to do with a different champ.

[@Helloing69]

​@@munteanucatalin9833 and she have literally no threat after missing a skillshot that can be easily dodged

[@gedox6523]

This however is the same time period where Fizz and Ekko went Sunfire into Iceborn and were the best tanks in the game.Put a jgler with devourer into the team and my ptsd is back ^^

[@Betaracsify]

But something I want to say is people are MUCH better now you could have irons today on the level of golds then and the masters level players are near that of grand master players oby there is power creep and the game is easier but the player base has improved and the avarage skill of the players is much hugher

[@arbitervildred8999]

I've been actually constantly funneling jungle into drake/voids or even help him path into enemy jg and all that on autopilot. didn't even realized until i saw this video

[@ultr0shot440]

I used to main mid, then went to top, then ADC, then settled on being a JGL main. The biggest reason I switched was because of season 8, when I felt that midlane started to lose its carry potential. So I went to my offrole top with camille... that got nerfed, play was slow (for me, I know that's how you play top), and I felt like I had more impact, but every game I lost had a 80% chance of having an ADC getting steamrolled bot... so I went bot. That was fun... for a while, when I could still adapt with the older botlane meta of mages bot, but then they just did SO many balance changes that I actually just decided to go learn (what I thought) was the MOST stable role in the game, with solid impact... jgl. What a mistake that was, but now I'm invested😂 turns out, riot hates the jgl and constantly changes everything about it, but that kinda pushed me into a OTP mindset and that ultimately helped me more than anything else, because (I believe) jgl players gain SO much more from just learning their lane fundamentals when compared to any other lane.

[@kwan3846]

If you watch pro play, aside from certain meta like MSI 2023, it’s ALWAYS mid lane being the carry aside from ADC or toplane. It’s very occasional mid lane being the support, it’s everyone supporting the mid lane because the downside of having a losing mid is everyone else getting fisted by the opposing mid. Given your logic of sustain runes, we should be seeing more picks such as Fizz, Kassadin, or Zed, as they cannot be easily fisted anymore. That’s not true at all, sustain runes do not change the fact that they’re still highly volatile champion, and pros will never risk losing such an important role.

[@permafrost5229]

No one gives a shit about pro play my guy, solo q works differently it's almost like a different game

[@ignacioperez5479]

Yeah, and in soloQ, Best top gap is way bigger than in pro play, in solo Q, the team don't plays around ADC

[@yasoumain3902]

In solo queue the game is chaotic because people make a lot more mistakes and are not coordinated, which means skirmish heavy champions thrive. In pro-play there's less mistakes so junglers mostly full-clear which means a slower small advantage objective focused game. That means champions who can get cs leads and priority are good because you as a coordinated team can snowball that lead into bigger leads like objectives, plates, invades, etc.

[@Helloing69]

​@@yasoumain3902that's surprisingly true considering what your name suggests

[@permafrost5229]

@@Helloing69 LOL

[@CashySwanson]

In MLBB, mid lane is essentially another roamer, with the support in bot lane also being considered a roamer and those 2 + jungle would dictate when and where every teamfight takes place. Ngl it makes sense and works REALLY well

[@ericmorneau8819]

As a Jungler who peaked almost challenger (381lp) in S6 (421lp for challenger that day), I miss those days so very much

[@psy_99]

Imo, mid has always been about supporting the jungle. It just wasn't popular back then. Faker's warding strategy and synergy with Bengi in S3 was an early version of what he have now. There's also teams and players like Moscow 5 and froggen that emphasized the relationship between mid and jungle. Our fundamental understanding of the game has increased and map movement is more important. I do agree that runes and items have pushed us more into this direction but I doubt that any change will reverse it. The fact that you're in the middle of the map just naturally gives you an incentive to help out the jungler. This isn't inherently a bad thing. I personally think the problem is that midlane is too safe now. It's too short, theres a ton of sustain in the game, and you don't need to win your lane. Getting a kill 1v1 is difficult since the lane is short and there's TP. The lane is also really wide, so junglers are discouraged from helping mid out. So you're forced to ignore winning mid lane and instead focus on helping the closest ally which is often the jungler.

[@Bannerlordfor]

Yeah there is way too much sustain and "bad play rewards". You can sustain better than tanks with ADCs and between bounties, short lane, plating etc. you can be crushing mid lane but one death with bounty and all the sudden the opposing mid lane who was down tons of CS and 1 level or 2 shoves wave into plating and now has the level and gold advanatge. Genuine brainrot

[@grymohoi9923]

I remember the day when i played a lot against Yasuo mid or Katarina normal ap and and Vel'Kos or Talon mid, omg, i miss those days😢

[@iRiDiKi]

My fav mid lane met was Ori/Lulu/Nidalee/LB - Truly FANTASTIC

[@kyriealom373]

Use to main akali mid pre-rework. At that time everyone wanted to play mid lane. Slowly phased out to jungle/supp/adc. It’s not as fun as it use to be.

[@boldisordorin9010]

Yes i love being 40 farm behind not being able to do anything ahh the good old days. Also remember when orianna ahri zed talon fizz and kassadin were midlaners? Feels like yesterday

[@MrNabura]

I remember climbing like a madman with old AP Sion mid... Times were good :')

[@throwaway7425]

i remember this a lot when i played mid back in like season 6 & 7, the malz rework was the beginning of the end

[@GT-xw7rg]

I mean I’d argue building correct items and runes to help keep up CS in a losing matchup in order to hopefully outscale later is just like “playing well” and playing to your win condition. Having a losing matchup shouldn’t mean that you auto lose CS and lane control every time. It just means you have to play around your opponents advantages in order to still keep up. That’s the definition of requiring skill. If you throw a random player on a losing matchup they are gonna lose and be like 40 CS behind.

[@smokektms1613]

old tristana ap mid was so so so fun

[@marledanimefan7186]

This is so true. I havent played LoL in about 5-7 years and i felt this. I was Annie into Velgar... I was getting farmed. Then saw our top garen was 7-0.... I left mid, just followed him around clicking E on him. We won

[@ismael8926]

this motivated me to play again midlane, im going to play for the high skill hypercarry every game, results may speak for themselves

[@ElReyDeNoche]

This man is talking about season 3. Mid used to be the lane to break the map. Now in like a third of my games it gets treated like top lane until 14 minutes.

[@kingheenokgaming4783]

LoL biggest problem right now is that everyone have infinite mana after the first recall IMO. When LoL started, it was more like DotA, you needed to do great thing with your mana. Now you spam on CD everyspell and it makes champ like support Xerath a bad experience for new/mid level of player.

[@tomwanders6022]

I disagree tbh, I think mid is despite not being the main carry role, atm able to play so many options. Be it mages, Assassins, tanks, ADCs, enchanters, (A very small hand of fighters) and if you feel a bit frisky even some roaming supports like Bard. I like playing mid a lot this season, because of all these options, but I agree, the lane healing runes are giga broken. New cho gath passive rune, is what I think broke the the threshhold of harass mattering a lot. Tristana can perma lifesteal, melees just run Dorans shield and mage, well they still have push pressure before six, but I think their spikes are much faster this season than before with Black fire enabling a lot of my favorite champs like AP kog and Anivia, to have double damage items, with malignance. Its really fun to me at the very least, because I play all types of different champs.

[@jonathanrussell6525]

Interesting how different this take is from the vibe I get from the high level mid player I watch (not to say Azzapp isn’t high level, just to clarify the person I watch play mid is also high level)

[@DestinySBL]

I know i might not be the most knowledgeable player, but i jave been saying for a year that crowd control has bee getting out of hand. Just the fact thay so many chamls have point and click cc on short cooldowns, tanks have 4 damaging abilties, tenacity removal from runes, tenacity doesnt even feel like a real stat anymore.

[@Bannerlordfor]

And when you get tenacity from stuff it is too little to make a difference. Super enjoyable to get perma CC'd for 8 solid seconds

[@dobeedooo]

Hey which is the song in the background? Love it

[@quocanhhbui8271]

True i miss old mid lane. Everyone playing literally on the edge on every champions. So many classic mid matches like u mentioned.

[@tomkycze2620]

The thing I hate most are these champions that no matter what you do, they still will be strong. Like what am I supposed to do with Zoe vs Yone. When yone will take just Teleport, tp back to lane every time he dies, takes his lost cs and goes somewhere else to take a kill. Or fizz, that littelary does more damage with Q W than Zoe on her full combo. Like what is even the point of having skill shots now in league if they are not splash?

[@duobizarrobizarro]

Man, I loved the old predator jungle meta, when you wouldn't even see the junglers on the map until min 20. It was so nice back then; now I get enemy jungler ganking toplane like, dude; it's toplane, go fight the dragon or something man.

[@XX-yh4fq]

you talking about the Feral Flare days? Infinite Power!!!!

[@angelsantana3355]

I remember back when people would pick malz to counter pick me when I main’d fizz. Half the time they would suck at wave management and it’s just a free lane as soon as I get protobelt. Then I get nerf fizz in all chat after they feed my snowball.

[@Willdroyd]

kinda sad that I was a top player during that time but even then I do miss when top was actually skill and not a 0/4 poppy who can 1v4 and get 3 kills out of it and then leave unharmed

[@simarjitsingh9917]

I miss ap nidalee mid spears hitting like a truck

[@lbpjaime423]

I still play it and its viable, not as great, and takes much more skill since everything pushes the wave way faster or have way more dmg. Still fun tho

[@Nasus-Ohkami]

oh no i am not losing the laning phase just because i want to play the character i want (nasus) against a hard countering matchup that would be a core mechanic in the game, (picking counter champions against your lane opponent and picking a mid laner obliviously) and still scaling into oblivion because why not must be one of my favorite thing( i was sarcastic btw counter matchups are a core gampley element in league of legends and picking a character that is not supposed to be played on a certain lane should be punishing but anyway if i can still go 9 0 as a nasus tank in the role of an adc and then win the game i wont complain)

[@shulululala3426]

the reality is that in s3 we had the possibility to play even more defensively with masteries and runes but people were even more stupid than today and were just using the same masteries every times and a lot of people were using basic runes because you had to spend a lot to get multiple rune page and runes

[@PROTOTYPZ]

Some of truest words I have heard. I went from focusing my lane and roaming, to peram playing for jg or I lose the game. It got so boring that I switched to ADC, midlane just ain't got that prestige that it had back then.

[@entropyfun]

This is exact set up I take with akali mid, shield, Fleet, second wind, and I play for sustain in lane, farm and jgl objectives.

[@DarkLegacy636]

Can we also talk about the increase of stuff like fighter champs mid lane or ADC mid lane just to out trade your oponent especially early?

[@JgHaverty]

The genuinely biggest problem is the aspect of mana recovery. Mana used to gatekeep many champions to their specific roles and matchups. Not having manaflow or presence of mind would... really be intriguing to the game state. That warwick top crap wouldnt fly for instance; these mid lane mages dont have infinite mana after their first back so they cant be so flippant with spamming out abilities with infinite waveclear now lol.

[@hrodvithit]

Most people didnt enjoy when Fizz and Kassadin were meta. Same days as seeing Riven or Darius every game top lane.

[@Hawkard]

He says this but back in the day we had mfs stacking doran's blade and ring, like every single mage and their mother used to get infinite mana and over 200+ bonus health by stacking dorans ring Not to mention compared to the past seasons, mana today is an insanely easy resource to come by, if you know the bare basics of managing your mana, you'll never run out of mana. So with that much mana in the game, without the sustain, some matchups would be outright impossible to play.

[@faloughasch9239]

I remember when talon used to be a level 2 all-in champ, and if you didn't you had to significantly work to roam and help your team out to make the same impact as the opposing midlaner. Now his level 2 is still busted, but if you fail it you just kill level 3 or level 4. It feels so much worse to play nowadays.

[@dingleberry4234]

Yea I used to play a ton of talon like 5 years ago, the level 2 play was one of my favorites. Same with Diana before rework, she wasn’t that popular and level 3 all in was my favorite play to set up.

[@sergioescribano9377]

He hasnt gotten a dmg Buff since more than 3 years ago, before the durability patch, nowadays you do full perfect combo lvl 2 and cant even kill then the enemy just leaves you 1 HP cuz talon early hp and defenses are trash

[@liviuadrian1101]

Skill issue. You can't instalock him every game, now you have to think about team comps and matchups.

[@faloughasch9239]

@@liviuadrian1101 That's such a weird take. Even back in season 9 when the level 2 was prime you had to consider team comps and matchups. I would argue that nowadays it's actually easier to slot him into any team comp, since he can build bruiser much easier and more effectively for late game. He used to have to snowball, now he can just sit back and wait for four items to be insane.

[@actck]

this guy's shorts music never disapoints me. Love it

[@BiZii1024]

I like it as well. Do you know name of that tune?

[@ImJustZer0]

@@BiZii1024 Daft Punk - Veridis Quo

[@capbarker]

Players will optimise the fun out of any game. I think this is inevitable with any PvP game even with regular updates. With time, the most effective strategies will rise up and it won't be any fun at all.

[@nicklasveva]

I've played Nasus top into hard losing matchups. Such as Renekton. He absolutely bodies you in trades. But with fleet, legend lifesteal and a vampiric scepter you're basically unkillable. Then you kill the opponent once you have enough stacks to 1v1 them. Insanely boring to play against actually.

[@motafu1]

they should add a new role, where champions can only be played on their respective role, means that adcs like ashe, sivir, tristana, samira, smolder etc. can only be played on the bot lane role and not on support, mid, jungle or top

[@cokecan6169]

Old mid lane had a lot more mind games and mana management made every decision a lot more impactful. Now every lane has anti-fumble mechanics built in that reward late game scalers with bad early games.

[@Bannerlordfor]

Yeah they have made changes to try and help late game champs not be an auto defeat but other champions end up using those buffs. Why you see so many ADC roles with a ton of sustain and it is annoying asf

[@soulsemblance3163]

Since we're on the Topic I remember season three. Suddenly playing ad champions in the mid lane became meta. Also remember 95%ban rate kassawin?

[@man_ham_aslume484]

basically what's happening to toplane right now, it's just ranged and other champions that can just not play laning phase like Gragas and Skarner, it's all about avoiding interaction instead of close 1v1s and fighting to snowball the game and try to carry

[@quentin3824]

Actually this is my fav sound of daft and even the song's title fits to your speech, funny.

[@JMScibra]

I remember when AP was for wave clear, AD was for turrets. That was the golden time.

[@Apoz]

My bro is forgetting about my scaling HP/5s runes on Ornn top and fizz mid. Abusing these things is how I reached rank 5 consistently on NA & EU when it came out.

[@akyuu3282]

Just had this debate with a jungler main friend. If there needs to be a broken role in the game, then it's so much more healthy for it to be mid lane instead of Jgl/Sup. A Sup/Jgl gap is so much more noticeable than a mid gap in modern league and also much harder to compensate. The game as a whole is in a better place when mid is strong. As annoying as it may be for some, it was the necessary evil that kept league fun and as fair as it could possibly be.

[@Tempy90]

Nidalee mid used to be my favorite. I tried it recently and got flamed but still won my lane big time. So easy now that transform isnt locked behind lvl 6

[@wrath5420]

Never saw something so accurate in my life that's crazy and that's exactly how i feel about the role

[@jakobchristiansson]

I think the jungle role might just be too dysfunctional as a concept to work properly in the game. I might just be clueless 😅 but it seems to me like that role has always been one of the primary causes of the games issues. They never really had a middle ground level of impact on the game. They were always either too much, or not enough. Back then as I recall (when Azzap is talking about), junglers were basically relegated to be stuck perma farming until they had feral flare. Or they could pick Lee Sin and gamble on snowballing and win the game fast, but those were the only options. Mid and sidelanes were more fun to play, but at the expense of jungle being super boring. Now the inverse is true in terms of impact and power, but the role is still one of the least popular to play. Which only exasterbates how oppressive the role is, because most games are decided by how good or bad a small minority of players are at the game, and an even smaller minority of players that understand how the role works. People are learning and playing jungle out of necessity because it's so impactful, which means that established jungle mains can steam roll the new guys, which exasterbates toxicity and frustration. I understand that the role is in the game to make sure that the game isn't "win lane = win game", but it's incredibly hard to balance. So much so, that i'm not convinced it's even possible. I'm not a jungle main though, so this might be an absolutely horrendous take 😅 idk?

[@Mezer_PoE]

And this is why Asol is one of if not the best midlaner. Not because of absurd damage or wins his lane. He just W's to bot or objective and ganks. Eventually he'll scale on top of that so it's a plus.

[@pietrotettamanzi2552]

Azzapp shorts editor has crazy music knowledge

[@dededemanreal]

Its almost as if mid lane roam timers get nerfed 2x and the death of AD assassin items and runes forces it into an afk scale lane vs afk scale mages and the existence of teleport didnt make you lose gold for taking ignite and getting a close early solo kill

[@someonewithpoortaste]

As a Karma mid player, can confirm, you're better off supporting others than tryna actually carry yourself, Karma is particular though, she still can put up some pretty good fight on her own

[@Dutchyman]

People just got better. If we suddenly reverted back to S3, there would be so many complaints of imbalance and champs just one shotting without counterplay.

[@xXPAKSLAYERXx]

Skill in the midlane died when everything became viable. We used to have 10 champs maximum that could go mid and they all went full damage runes and másteres. Now you can run nautilus mid.

[@YetAnotherScrub]

Also in those days, assassins took skill to play at all points. Nowadays a fed assassin will completely 1v9 with very low effort. The game got dramatically more snowball due to all the extra snowball mechanics like turret plates, dragon souls, and the ridiculously powerful new items.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

I'll die on this hill: Things were fun before the range-creep happened. Back then you had a healthy amount of sustain items but also not too overwhelming amount of poke. Also, the poke champs ACTUALLY ran out of mana in those days. Nowadays you'd be hard-pressed to outsustain a Lux shooting rainbow vomit at you every six or so seconds. She doesn't even need to actively hit you. She just flings shit at the backline minions and happens to catch you. Free 150+ hp shaved off of you with E + a blunt implement Nerf range, then nerf mobility. Voila, game fun again.

[@sepzai]

Ah this short reminded me what a fucking banger Daft Punk - Veridis Quo is

[@purplelotus531]

I have been disliking the way many things in lol have spiralled into, on of my “bookmarks” is when I started to notice mids always buying corrupt potion+ potion rune (tonic?) + biscuits. You could just tank everything for 12 min and act like it was nothing

[@conq1273]

The old knee-kicking silence teleport talon was fun😂

[@hectito982]

Mid lane used to be “pick a broken champ and go sweat your balls off against another broken champ por 15mins and carry the game, then hurl abuse to the opposite team”, and it essentially beautiful

[@krzysztofputerko1943]

It's not "embarassing" it's just that game changes. Generally midlane role will always be best at early game placemaking in 3 lane mobas because it can freely roam to both sidelanes. In dota 2 midlaners are almost highest in farm priority, the only one who has higher farm priority then them is pos 1 which is the equivalent od Lol AD carry(very weak early, has to afk farm majority of the game so they can become an absolute monster DPS late game). However majority of midlaners scale much worse then pos 3(which is most similar to lol toplaner). Why? Because majority of midlane picks are about getting even the slighest bit of advantage and start power ganking sidelanes. If you want to play chess with enemy laner, play toplane.

[@santiagobedoya2247]

That analysis with the daft punk song😢 Hits hard bro

[@lmntsgames3848]

LS explained it before using the triangle of counters.. assassins are good against poke mages, poke/burst mages are good against controllers, controllers are good against assaasins.. now assassins are non existent in high level because riot hates them for some reason while poke/burst are also non existent, its always controllers in mid.. only time poke went good is when Xerath came back into meta.. for one patch then immediately gutted the next and immediately the pros dropped him.. like how talon became meta for one patch then gone the next..

[@sylphephilippe449]

Akali, yasuo, yone, ekko, fizz, naafiri, galio, malphite tank, sion, (insert a champion that can benefit from all the health regen) are ruining the life of ap mages. You loose all your mana trying to force them to back and they don't care, if you just focus on farming, they outscale you hard doing nothing special... I'm finding myself playing top champs on mid lane or a support on mid and having better results than my ap carry mids... The meta is sad.

[@prof.something8282]

The jungle is supposed to be the 2nd support behind the team just being the up in gold than the support and let the mid lane shine on games.

[@TheJpiscool]

Controversial opinion: Mages should all receive a 5 ms buff so that they can actually harass with auto attacks in the early game enough for it to make a difference, rather than being forced to trade with abilities when early game mana pools are pisslow.

[@kerroseir4764]

Actually top lane is the support of the jungler if you destroy the tower top agains tthe toplaners will (jungle using rift) then the top laner doesnt get angry (even after spam pinging) they just calm down, are happy they dont have to be stuck top lane And just start messing up mid and bot lane for the enemy while i just farm as jgler

[@2d_gf]

veridis quo mentioned

[@theucheao]

Welcome to being an ADC main

[@kazekagekid]

So sad. Now they complain when jg doesn’t gank their lane because grubs, shelly, my camps, enemy camps, or drag are up. I always have to reply “NO! you’re the shortest lane and there’s no objective near you I can sneak after showing. hug turret if needed” when they start typing and asking if I’m ever coming mid during lane phase.

[@ynoelielbasco8768]

The Golden era is season 4. Where assassins and mages are playable on mid and the only acceptable adc mid is ezreal. Today the meta sucks, the new mage item sucks, the assassin items are being abused by bruisers and adc. I miss my dfg and athenes.

[@nobody1butme820]

Mid lane became the junglers support bc they made junglers pretty much dictate the game so if ur jungler fails and doesnt get help u just lose a lot of the time like the game bc so much harder than losing any of the lanes

[@user-ph7lz8hy1t]

The S1-3 era was the era of the gods, where players were skilled af.

[@SkittleBombs]

Frack mentioned he’s going to turn mid lane assassins into a more volatile lane and take hp regen out of their power creep and add lethality pre16