Riten Industries Face Driver, Turning Between Centers

I had the guys from Riten Industries come by for a visit to get some education on their face driving tools and help me be sure I get the tools set up properly on our Milltronics cnc lathe. There's also parameters you must follow in order to use this tooling properly and safely. This tooling will allow you to turn shafting between centers from end to end including multi-directional turning. This tooling can also be adapted to use in manual lathes as well, eliminating the use of a lathe dog to drive the workpiece. #abom79 #ritenindustries #facedriver #cnclathe #cncmachining #milltronics
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[@bigkenny66]

Those shafts look familiar, especially the 1/2x28TPI on the end.

[@murrayedington]

Interesting to see this in action - I've only seen it on wood previously. Surprised they don't supply a punch or press tool to create the driver grooves before the stock is loaded, to reduce the spindle load. That could create deeper (safer) grooves with less bearing stress.

[@idiotengineer7494]

We've been doing this on wood lathes for years

[@patrickmazzone9066]

Remindes me of the wood turning days where they used the spades to tighten up the wood same idea love your show keep up the good work

[@Brian-L]

Neat toys! Love learning the tricks the industry uses to make the world go ‘round.

[@jwdickinson643]

was wondering when Adam would get around to making rifle barrels 😄😄🤣

[@EVguru]

It's surprising how few machinists seem to know about face drivers and indeed how few people have ever noticed the witness marks in the ends of so many common production components. Face drivers were in use for wood turning for hundreds, if not thousands of years before metal turning came about. Simple designs just have fixed drive blades, whilst more sophistcated designs have mechanical or hydraulic means to equalise the pin pressure. Frank Ford has a page on his 'Frets' site on constructing a "drive centre", which is an alternative term for the device.

[@7th_dwarf542]

it is amazing to see that you can pick up the long used and worn part and send it to the manufacturer for refurbishment. Also, much fun to watch the new big machinery

[@davidneilson3508]

Those shafts look familiar. I just can’t put my finger on it 🌴👍👍😎🌴

[@MR619Can]

i think you ARe right on target with your assessment.

[@mdvener]

I am no machinist but learned a lot. Thanks as always. Any time you learn something new it's a great day.

[@bernardwill7196]

Greetings from Germany. You do it right to learn CNC.

[@TexDrinkwater]

I've been looking forward to this video ever since I saw your instagram posts about this tool. I follow several machining accounts, but have never seen this tool until you started talking about it. Thanks for sharing. [edit] I can't even guess how handy this would have been for you when you were turning all those shafts back in the day.

[@FunkFPV]

I’ve seen those marks on parts for years and never why they were there. Great video as always Adam 👍🏻

[@Eric-rz2xb]

Very professional Demo. May you sell a lot of them.

[@russbird8257]

Thanks Adam .. Best to you and Abby

[@thebeardedgunsmith9177]

Just a heads up. The bore needs to be indicated at the muzzle with a range rod before cutting the shoulder and threads. Cutting the threads while turning between centers risks a baffle strike with a can attached.

[@Smallathe]

Awesome tool and a wonderful video. Loved the face driving tool design!

[@snoozinglion8596]

Great episode Adam... always very interesting... thanks for sharing ;)

[@ruben_balea]

I guess a simple steel bar can't be turned into too many cool looking things and that's why he chose that recognizable shape to grab our attention while showing us his new tools.

[@xoxo2008oxox]

..example to use...hmmm...a fluted gun barrel with threaded end!

[@robdixon945]

Thanks for the show Adam

[@TexDrinkwater]

"Shafts" with a 1/2-28 thread. 😉 Let us know if you ever start manufacturing those shafts with a 0.223" bore.

[@jollsnj]

0.224” is the spec I’m pretty sure. Agreed, I want one too!

[@kenread9315]

I’m wondering if he has a gun drill hiding in the background.

[@elchuco00]

Really cool tooling Adam! I'm exited for you getting into all kinds of new concepts, tools and techniques. Keep the good content coming. 👌 can't wait to see the progression that your new shop will bring. Haters will always put you down because you have something they don't have. Stay positive and remember that 99.999923791% of us are behind you!

[@FFGOMER17]

1/2x28 threads, with that profile, I know what that “shaft” is for 😉. Is next week going to be how to bore a .224” hole down the center of it? 🙏🏻

[@johnalexander2349]

No, it get's a 5-start, modified acme, .224-1/7 internal thread.

[@Boothy20077]

These have been around for more than 30 years. Great gear.

[@davidnelson6008]

Thanks for your efforts, I tried to hang with you on this, CNC is just not my thing.

[@robincharlton8682]

Very interesting... nice to be able to compare against older technology and techniques

[@c0mputer]

So it’s wood lathe. Makes sense to me. You’re turning into quite the salesmen Adam!

[@scrotiemcboogerballs1981]

That’s awesome thanks for sharing

[@MegaLostOne]

Good to know about Riten repairing their own and other brands, I have a concentric live center that needs cleaned up and a Royal Live center that I could never get a response from Royal about rebuilding.

[@KentHizer]

Royal does not repair or rebuild centers. Riten now makes the Concentric line and has for years. Remember, Concentrics must be lubricated unlike most other live centers.

[@mrmaddog69]

Nice AR “shaft” 😎

[@charlesmoore456]

It's always nice to see Erie's Reed Manufacturing products still in use.

[@edstuff1198]

I agree. I grew up in Erie.

[@ronnydowdy7432]

Thanks for the information

[@mariocortes1337]

Very well explained

[@wdgreen2041]

We machined railroad axles downsizing them from a worn out larger size to the next size down. We tried a very expensive face driver and it just did not work out. The face driver had hydraulic driving pins on it and there was no way to set axles up repeatedly length wise in our CNC lathe. It turned out much easier with a good heavy six jaw set-true chuck. That chuck is the cats meow. Floor to floor was just as quick and no worry about having every axle in the same location length wise from axle to axle.

[@Guds777]

Abom´s Armory... :D

[@PhotoArtBrussels]

Great video, well explained. It is great to see your advances in the CNC technology and also different ways to hold and drive the parts. We all keep learning every day, or sometimes a refresh. I totally see the advantages of working with companies that make and produce products and parts you like; a lot of those items are expensive; and it is a win-win for all. I'm glad they see you as a means to get the word out instead of a flyer that helps nobody. I found the video a good balance between showing the product and your learning curve on the CNC.

[@tomp538]

I've seen similar marks on the end of transmission and other high precision shafts over the years in the automobile industry. Never thought it was how the shaft was driven during manufacture.

[@paulhunt598]

We used face drivers 30+ years ago to turn rolls for printing presses. Any hardening and/or cylindrical grinding were secondary operations to turning. Some parts were finished in the lathe, others required the secondary operations. The face drivers we used required very little maintenance even in high production machining. I assume that the driver pins are hydraulic operated, the spring loaded center being the master cylinder supplying the pin loading pressure. This also ensures that the drive pins are evenly loaded even if the stock face squareness is not true. Our parts were much larger than Adam's so our drivers had more drive pins. I only had to do very infrequent drive pin and hydraulic circuit maintenance. The face driver was an enormous production efficiency producer, but created a prep step bottle neck. Our solution was to invest in 1960's technology by adding a G&L Endomatic. This is a length, facing and centering machine. This machine used two self centering workpiece vises to hold any size work piece. Two face milling heads mounted with centering drill heads finished the part to length and center drilled the turning centers to proper depth and on location. The Endomatic was the most geometrically complex machine for a maintenance man to set up that I have ever encountered. There is very little on the machine to reference from compared to a lathe or mill and multiple functions must be measured and compensated by finished part error. Adam didn't show us his prep steps, but I assume that he is forced to do those step tediously in his manual lathe(s). Or he will have to break his face driver set up. Indicating a face driver and or lathe chuck is counter productive to machining efficiency gained by the face driver. Prior to switching to face driver technology, we employed SMW air chucks and performed standard 2 step turning operations. SMW chucks were high maintenance compared to hydraulic chucks using a spindle mounted roating cylinder and draw tube to operate the chuck. The magic if the air chuck was an internal air operated pilot check valve that maintained chuck clamping pressure for the entire machining operation. OD mounted air sealing rings transmitted operating and clamping pressure then relaxed to provide free clearance so that the chuck could turn and not destroy the sealing rings. These were high production chucks and eliminated the through spindle diameter clearance loss yielded up to the hydraulic operated draw tube, but they were very high maintenance and tedious to repair and set up properly.

[@KentHizer]

At Riten we make both mechanical and hydraulic face drivers. The one in the video is mechanical. Mechanical face drivers are more accurate than hydraulic, but hydraulic face divers are more forgiving in parts where the stock face is not perfectly square to the axis.

[@csnelling4]

Thanks Adam , you are getting to grips with the software on The Milltronics lathe 👌👏👏👏👏👍🍺

[@jerrylondon2388]

Other than push stop, start, and escape did you actually witness Abom performing any programing of the CNC lathe. Did he perform any programming at all for the camera, on any machine in the shop? Maybe rewatch the video?

[@RobertBrown-lf8yq]

Hi Adam. Thanks for showcasing new tools/methods. I’m just a ‘hobby machinist’, but I really enjoy seeing the variety of machines, tools, Toolholding, and work holding you are using. From ‘old school’ to space age…. all good IMHO. Thanks again, Robert (Australia).

[@classicamericangunsmith2131]

@abom79 I have watched every video. Some of them more then once. I admit I am not the biggest fan of the promotion videos. Yet I accept that it is simply a fact of life for your channel now. Would it be too much to ask for a big project from time to time? Remember the welding table? Parking attachment? Etc? I for one love those types of content. It would still allow you to do the promotions but we would get something more from it as well. Anyway, best to you and Abby. 🍻

[@Nf6xNet]

It would be neat to see the equipment needed to make the internal features of those shafts.

[@philbert006]

He has the equipment. Just a matter of tooling.

[@cyclebuster]

a giant wood lathe! great new design!

[@sparkplug1018]

It’s interesting how Adam doesn’t want to say what that part actually is. Because it’s not exactly a shaft.

[@stuartschaffner9744]

Which part? Adam's shiny new part was a test pattern, designed simply to help him learn. The mystery "auto part" looked like some sort of double spline shaft. I've noticed that sometimes real parts are not identified by request of the maker.

[@sparkplug1018]

@@stuartschaffner9744 That example part is an fluted AR-15 barrel. You can clearly see the locking lugs and feed ramps on the breech (large end) and 1/2-28 is the common thread for a 5.56 muzzle device, he basically turned shorter blanks.

[@stuartschaffner9744]

@@sparkplug1018 , thanks. However, since this is KZbin, perhaps we ought to emphasize the resemblance to a spline shaft. Move along folks, nothing to see here, just some common auto parts.

[@sparkplug1018]

@@stuartschaffner9744 Absolutely, and the parts he made on camera could definitely be a shaft for something. Just cut the splines on the ends and done.

[@PhilG999]

It's because the Wicked Witch of the Web (and her minions) that owns YT demonetizes any video that references things that go "pew pew"... 🤬

[@angelramos-2005]

Very informative video,Adam.Thank you.

[@federiconiedenthal4180]

Love manual machines!! Long live the monarch!

[@mariocortes1337]

Abom79 your English is grat and clear, congrats 👏

[@Copozeras]

nice, those drive centres are arround since the 60s at least :)

[@daviddickson7067]

Lots of demand for AR barrels. MK12 MOD0 barrels will be a snap in that rig! Think about this, the stresses imparted in the surrounding material of the barrel blank by the button forcing its way thru the bore during the rifling process is known to do strange things when you relieve those stresses by turning the outside diameter of a rifle barrel. Accuracy in a barrel has a lot to do with the way the projectile enters the barrel and how it exits the barrel. My concern would be the effect on the muzzle area of that barrel opening up if you are turning button rifled barrels, then cutting even more material away from the barrel right at the critical point of the projectiles exit. Add to that, the half-ton of pressure being applied to the end of the barrel by the tailstock, coupled with the addition of the 1/2-28 threads being cut and you compound the effect of the bore "possibly" opening up. Check on it yourself by pin gauging before and after the machining operation. Probably a moot point on an M4 length barrel (spray and pray) but if you cut barrels for Designated Marksman Rifles (DMR) it becomes a factor.

[@hemanthharrilall6469]

Hi Adam, you may want to get a polarizing filter for your camera to remove the glare and reflection Always enjoy your videos

[@larrymacaluso9051]

My primary concern would be with the bearing life on both the spindle and tailstock, especially when turning harder materials.

[@geckoproductions4128]

VERY interesting to me Adam. I am one of those evil people who makes those bad black things....or at least works on them It was fascinating to me how to make those "drive pins with the threaded ends" on your cnc machine....REALLY cool! I also make about 15 passes for the 1/2x28 threads but it takes me awhile longer at 200rpm single pointing it!!! Thanks for the video really cool.

[@agentmango]

That tool for measuring the pounds of force reminds me of a Sherline trailer tongue weight scale.

[@scotttomlinson1057]

Good stuff

[@PaulSteMarie]

BTW, love the GoPro shot from the top of the turkey assembly. Another interesting spot would be from under the turret, looking at the cutting action. Dunno if there's room to safely mount a camera under there, though.

[@alp9532]

AR 15 barrel blanks

[@henrymorgan3982]

Great class!

[@kamper4140]

Would have been nice to get some TIR measurements in and out of the lathe. I actaully make drive chucks for our local plywood mill in various diameters and tooth patterns left and right hand. I just started doing the teeth on a cnc mill after many years of doing it manually and I love it. No more angle setups just let the machine do it all. Its amazing how fast and large they peel those logs and the core has a perfect star tooth pattern in the end from the dogs bitting in. Starts with 8" drive chucks and finishes with a 2-1/2" drive spindle running around 1,500 sfm!

[@RobertGracie]

The perfect video to relax and watch on a big TV, thanks Abom for another awesome soothing video to watch!

[@dlfabrications]

That new lathe dog replacement tool looks a lot like what wood lathes use.🤔🤔

[@timclarke5156]

the part you showed with the flutes looks very familiar. not surprised you didn’t say what it was. youtube bs!

[@kindablue1959]

It's just smart business. The vast majority of well adjusted humans would choose not to watch a video titled 'machining gun barrels'.

[@Bas045]

Great video Adam! I really love your journey into the 'cnc-world" 3 Years ago i have taken the step into cnc machining and i love it! Now programming on a DMG-Mori lathe! Keep it up and keep the vids coming! Huge fan! Grtz from the Netherlands btw 🇳🇱

[@anthonymarino4260]

now I understand thanks

[@morophineswordphich8229]

I remember how much you enjoyed shooting with NYCCNC and you've got some experience casting. And now this.. is there an AR-15 complete build coming for Patreon supporters 😹

[@ccrider5398]

Were you just making "demo" parts or is there a customer who wants those shafts for an application? If they're just demos, have you ever thought of selling those (with you logo stamped somewhere) to your viewers? Whether there is a use (alignment pin, clamping jig) or just desk art, it might be cool to have if the price is right.

[@PhotoArtBrussels]

Good idea!

[@hasletjoe5984]

Good to see you moving forward with some of the newer technology. Not ever being around CNC machines, do you have any indicating in you have to do prior to starting your work? (Yeah, I love to watch you do that on the Monarch) Love your videos!

[@floodo1]

nice

[@USSR04]

Thanks Adam 👍👍👍

[@johndonlan5956]

Adam, I'm so glad that the CNC lathe is working out for you. It's quite a new world, this CNC, huh?

[@shaneroper5470]

I prefer tactile feel. Nothing more sensitive than your hands and body. Through experience, your dialed into pressure.

[@BramBiesiekierski]

Does the pressure applied by the tailstock cause wear or damage to the bearings in the lathe?

[@corbaneells3997]

I wonder what a precision level on the ways next to the tailstock would show us.

[@djquick]

@@SteveColluns-hm2xx flexing under the load applied from the tailstock

[@eweol127]

Gutes Video. Viele Grüße aus Deutschland. Wo kann ich die mitlaufende Spitze bestellen? Good video. Many greetings from Germany. Where can I order the live tip?

[@greeceuranusputin]

That force gauge is easy to make if you can machine a precise 1 square-inch bore.

[@naldahide]

Nice ar barrel... 😄🇺🇸

[@timothyj1962]

You can eliminate some reflection in your videos using a polarized filter.

[@jasonhull5712]

Love ya Adam, but this video is intended for a target audience. Not for me. But I really do appreciate you and all the content you’ve shared over the years. I really enjoy a lot of your older videos and I kinda think that much like the industry, your content is changing and adapting to new technology. I sincerely wish you the best. But this type of stuff misses the mark for me personally. My live center is from them. It’s a solid well built center. 👍🏻

[@byronjlittle]

Are you going to start selling barrels?

[@1crazypj]

Witness marks from face drivers have been common for as long as I can remember. This is s lightly different system though. Is there a minimum size of lathe it can be used on? I'm guessing it's too expensive for limited hobby use (I can count on the fingers of one foot how often I've needed to make a part in one piece) but could be really handy fo high volume CNC. Guess it depends on cost and availability compared to 'conventional' pressure turning systems, you can only use the patriotic, 'Made In USA' marketing for so long (look what happened to Harley Davidson, 500,000 motorcycles one year, now, Made In India)

[@ibmortensen6628]

Where do you set your Z-zero and does it have to be reset after the pins dig deeper into the material after the first cut?

[@keithgutshall9559]

It almost looks like a wood lathe drive dog.

[@andypughtube]

It's exactly the same idea. Except that there is something (I wonder what?) that couples the three drive pins so they engage with equal pressure. With a wood drive dog the material is soft enough for that not to be necessary. I have an old one that uses rubber pads under the drive pins, but this one looks like it might be hydraulic. Though it could just be something like a hemispherical pad, I suppose.

[@MadmanJimbo]

Metal lathes also have drive dogs.

[@PaulSteMarie]

"Spur center" I believe is the usual term. Which this pretty much is, with a lot more force holding it in.

[@kenburner]

Also called steb center.

[@ryanjordan7113]

This system has been around a long time. Usually found in grinding.

[@fgjcgds-jh7xd]

Hey champ.. do you drive the cut in waves? With fluctuations control applied to remove shattering?

[@fefifofob]

VAVF - Viewers Against Vertical Format

[@easyian01]

Sorry Adam I can't do these ones. For me it's like watching paint dry

[@martineastburn3679]

I saw a user on KZbin use a wrench over the nut in the tailstock and the arm of the wrench levered over the wheel handle. And he could drive a bar doing tough cuts. Just an idea.

[@jmbauer68]

How do you bore it and rifle it?

[@rexmyers991]

Very interesting

[@CothranMike]

Comment made before watching the entirety of it, but did anyone else see the steam wisps from the tail center? I'll look at the prior comments when I finish. MikeC edited for first wisp of steam at 24: or there abouts.

[@KentHizer]

Because of the tight clearance of the bearing within the bearing housing, the live center does run "warm". That is to say you can lay your hand on it immediately after the spindle stops. Our lubrication is stable to temps up to 350 degrees F.

[@CothranMike]

@@KentHizer wonderful to know. Thanks

[@andypughtube]

Face drivers are not _that_ new, we used them to make tensile-testing specimens back on the mid 1990s.

[@kindablue1959]

He said multiple times that they were only 'new to him' and knows they've existed in the industry for a while.

[@charlieromeo7663]

Did you watch the entire video? He mentioned the technology was nothing new almost as many times as he mentioned the MFR.

[@WireWeHere]

5:29 May The Force be with your... accessories.

[@bulletproofpepper2]

Thanks Adam, you talked about the finish, I know carbide likes a little deeper cut then HSS. Is that what your meaning when you talking about speeds and feeds, hitting your mark at the main cut or a different way all together. Thanks for sharing.

[@ibmortensen6628]

I am asking again. Where do you set your Z-zero and does it have to be reset after the pins dig deeper into the material after the first cut?

[@ellieprice363]

Good question. Probably not unless the dimensional tolerance is extremely critical.

[@elchuco00]

1/2 28 thread huh....exiting!

[@clintchapman4319]

That looked like an AR barrel, minus the bore...

[@havenisse2009]

Material flex not am issue as length increases?

[@jasongrady1278]

Those shafts look like rifle barrels

[@matte3721]

They are

[@othermattreed]

Shhhhht 🤫🤫🤫 KZbin super dumb about stuff like that, don’t get Adam a strike or this video demonetized

[@cojones8518]

Noooo, they're just your everyday hollow tube. KZbin doesn't like pew pew content, not even mentions of it. They've been demonitizing channels for even holding them. So shhhhh!

[@Resistculturaldecline]

A test run for O.D. work. A real "shaft" would already have the I.D. cut before O.D. cutting.

[@davidcat1455]

@@cojones8518 I have watched dozens of KZbin videos with firearms in them. None of them mentioned being demonetised🤷Seems like y’all are fear mongering to me.

[@oscaraldrete4360]

Any chance they have any demo for Inco 718???

[@BMRStudio]

Bobcat press fit joint pins in one shot? HAH!

[@esplinmachine8968]

Please bring back you old school machining .

[@ghostdog662]

I second that.

[@Paul-FrancisB]

Agreed was hoping for a traditional video. Not hating on CNC, I've watched many hours on Rotary SMP channel, but that's home shop scale not big budget loan equipment

[@saintchuck9857]

He makes videos of what he is doing

[@ghostdog662]

@@Paul-FrancisB Yep the relatable factor drops once Skynet gets involved

[@andrewterry8092]

Who cares? CEE is 10x better than this channel ever was. Or will be.