River Knives and PFDs | Ep. 63

[@normanfred746]

I have used a pointed tipped River Shorty (RS) since 1995 when I got it at NOC when I was taking a Whitewater canoeing course. They attached it to my pfd with some strips of plastic from a destroyed kayak and there it has stayed ever since. I have seen them attached with inner tube strips and zip ties, too. I like the Gerber knives. All my personal pfds have either a Gerber RS or a Benchmade folder attached. The Gerber RS are well made but they are not easy to sharpen because they have a rounded edge instead of a beveled edge and don't hold an edge well because of the same reason. The metal seems harder than most stainless knives I have owned. Otherwise, they are great. They never rust or tarnish and they stay in the sheath fine for me. I have used my Gerber RS several times in rescue situations and they work when they need to. I owe my life to mine when I got my pants' leg stuck on the prong of a tree while swimming a rapids and I had to cut my pants off to get free. I would have surely drown if I had not had my RS. So, thanks for encouraging every paddler to carry one. I carry mine on the front of my PFD and, now after my close call, I also carry a small spare fixed blade knife on my belt, just in case I lose my Gerber RS. I do not use the elastic loop like this KZbinr showed. You can see that he had problems when using it and it's things like that which get you hurt or worse. I feel like if I need the knife, I need it now and I don't want to have to deal with a lanyard. If that means I lose my knife, so be it. I'll get another one. I want to have the knife available fast. That's the important thing. I run a non-profit that does river cleanups and we encourage our volunteers to carry knives in all river paddling situations. They may never need them but I get reports that they get used often by even the mildest little old ladies. We find fishing lines and hooks and all sorts of rope and other stuff that can snare a paddler and a knife is a good thing to have on the river. If you never need it, that's great but it's that one time that you do that you will be happy to have it. I have a scar on my face where a treble hook got me on the side of my nose and the knife was right there to cut the line so it didn't rip my nose and puncture my eye. Lots of blood but thank God for myt River Shorty.

[@MrCoyotekiller21]

I have an NRS Zen Rescue PFD and the mounting point on it is mid chest pocket. I put an NRS co-pilot knife on it and I noticed when I was rowing the ends of the oars would sometime hit it. Took it off and stuck it in the flap pocket of my PFD. I have only ever used it to cut cheese and sausage.

[@wadehanson2399]

Thanks Zach. Lots of good in the video and the comments - about all I have to add is that diving experience/rationale around the knife discussion can be complimentary to this conversation - lots of overlap. My preference is to carry a sheath knife (a River Shorty) up on the shoulder strap with the tip tied down and a small "breakaway" elastic loop as insurance, BUT I also always have a folding knife in my PFD pocket. This 2nd knife is from my diving experience. The actual need for a knife in a life-or-death situation is very rare, but if it does happen, lots of stuff can go wrong, such as losing a knife, so the 2nd one is just good insurance. And you can clip the 2nd knife into the pocket with the plastic key clip that is in many PFD pockets or tie it in with a "breakaway" tie of some sort.

[@lindseycorum]

100% agree with the point about externally clipped knives (or any gear) making it more difficult to get back into your boat. I had this happen to me after a swim in a class 3 river. As I was self rescuing back into my raft the knife caught on the external line/rope around my raft. Eventually I figured it out as the river was pool drop but could have been worse if it was more continuous. I only carry a knife in pfd pockets ever since.

[@allancampbell4075]

Spyderco Assist rescue knife. Yeah it’s a folder, but it can absolutely be opened quick, with gloves, in the cold. It cuts like a blow torch. Has a Fox 5 whistle built into the handle. Found in helicopter aircrew rescue vests. Not cheap ($150) but blade is crazy sharp, blunt tipped, and holds an edge very well. Mine lives in my PFD pocket.

[@GearGarageTV]

That knife looks amazing. I just ordered one. Thanks for the recommendation!

[@GearGarageTV]

Here's a new episode with some thoughts about the Spyderco knife you suggested kzbin.info/www/bejne/f3yZc5mKpsdqi7s - thank you for the comment!

[@axcoolxname]

The kokatat maximus has a upper side knife mount with a extra little pocket for the tip of the sheathing to go into so it can’t get caught on something also has an extra lb of flotation for the bigger sizes

[@tedjohnson401]

I agree with your friend's shoulder strap placement. I Gorilla taped it there 8 years ago and have had no regrets after guiding these seasons.

[@richardweiss6181]

Insightful comment about the message you're sending by wearing a knife. I used to wear mine on the outside of my jacket. As I climbed into a boat after swimming left at Bedrock (another story) it snagged on a line. I've worn a folding knife in my pocket ever since. One feature I've found useful on a knife is a marlin spike. They can be helpful when working with hard-to-break knots.

[@thepilgrim4473]

Would this happen to be Richard son of Ken? If so say hi to yer dad from me ( Pete Mason) and I wonder if the said swim resulted from (oh the shame at Bedrock!) a slight mis calculation on his part? Haha! I agree with you tho - I lost my last chest mounted knife while dragging some poor luckless soul back onto my boat.

[@KudaTimberlineAIE]

I had one of those Gerber's that you are wearing and loved it. After 3 years it finally broke at the clip during a fall off a paddleboard. I can't seem to find a good supply of them online. Never had issues with mine falling out of the clip but I had it mounted horizontally. Great video! Thanks!

[@barnaclebill1615]

Good tips. I carry a Spyderco Caribbean Salt with sheepsfoot blade. You could also go as far as to purchase their Autonomy LC200N. Which was originally designed for the US Coast Guard rescue swimmers. It’s an automatic deployment and fully serrated with blunt tip. Unfortunately it’s only available in the H1 steel (while still rust proof... it’s known to not hold an edge nearly as long as the LC200N) U bring up a good point about keeping a knife concealed while being around the public. While society does have many view and bias... it’s those very people who make your job possible. In the end... did u have to use your knife. I’m sure they’d thank you as well as even ask where u got yours. Great video and thanks for keeping us safe in the water.😁👍👍

[@GearGarageTV]

I’m gonna check out those knives. Thanks for weighing in.

[@molamola4876]

Ive also had the Bear Claw fall out. I thought it was a nice knife otherwise, though I never had to use it. I like how you pointed the knife sheath downward so when you unsheathed it, it never came close to your face. I've enjoyed watching your videos, keep up the good work!

[@GearGarageTV]

Thanks!

[@mjones3544]

Good info, thanks for the video!

[@turdwarbler]

As a WW kayak coach I always taught a simple set of rules. 1) If you are on water with ropes and straps, you carry a knife to cut them. 2) The knife must be accessible by 1 one hand, left or right. 3) The knife must be got ready and usable by using only 1 hand. 4) The knife must be large enough to be gripped by a very cold hand You would be surprised the number of people who have knives in back pockets or or in containers, or use a folding knife they cant open. Get your students on dry land, tell them to put their right hand on their head, then tell them to get their knife out and ready to use using their left hand only. See how many fail !!!!

[@GearGarageTV]

I would add that they need a knife that can cut rope. There are a lot of garbage knives out there.

[@haourss]

you are right about the Shorty coming out too easily. Had that experience myself - but simple soulution is to fit 2-3 layers of duc Tape inside the sheath. (not with the blade area). Worked great for me.

[@zachmueller4736]

love that patagonia down shirt

[@MartyZaluski]

I've struggled with proper knife placement. On chest, it either snags on perimeter line when I'm getting in the boat, or hits my hands when rowing. Best place for me is on shoulder straps.

[@andrewbrown6522]

You dont necessarily want extreme knife retention because of our tendency to jerk back a couple inches after it releases. I prefer a firm fit with a 2nd lock. If i had that knife id rivet a small 1/4" piece of webbing with snap buckles onto the kydex. Would be closer in line with the clean lines principles. I towed for a living for a while and tended to have a similar set of rules so setting my boat up with that loosely in mind and then i found your videos. Thanks for all the great tips.

[@stevekelly6463]

The river Shorty in my view has always been the best river knife and I am surprised Gerber haven't sorted the problem with the sheath after all the years It's been around. The best pfd for the River Shorty is The Nookie River Monster. The sheath of the river Shorty is secured to a strap within a neopren pocket on the pfd. The handle of the knife protrudes from this pocket enough to grab but not enough for the knife to become loose. There is also no snag problem

[@GearGarageTV]

Gerber has looked into updating that knife but never actually did it. I agree it's a great knife.

[@CerebralStorm]

I have the NRS Pilot. Never had an issue with it coming off, but I have got it caught while trying to pull myself in the boat. I also originally mounted it sideways, and it would always hit my arm while rowing, so I switched it to vertical. But yeah, haven't found a perfect solution yet.

[@ZacharyCollier]

Yep unfortunately there is no perfect solution yet

[@MT4Runner]

The location of most knife patches on PFD's is pretty poor. They're accessible, but also really prone to snagging. I like the BlueJacket's patch up on the shoulder; keeps the knife handle above the pocket. Just be careful putting the knife back in its sheath up by your neck! Excellent reviews, Zach.

[@tylerranes9391]

What are your thoughts of the Stohlquist rocker?

[@GearGarageTV]

I have that PFD and really like it

[@tylerranes9391]

Awesome. Good enough for me. Thanks appreciate it.

[@lenn4626]

How about flipping the knife right side up. crazy how gravity works

[@lucasfff1370]

I get your point and to be honest I thought of that first as well. The problem however is that it is a safety knife and should be deployed as quick as possible (in case you are submerged in a fast flowing river when your kayak flipped for example) and in those situations literally every split second counts, meaning pulling the knife out downwards is quicker and safer than up towards your neck

[@chrisdorsi3628]

Agreed. Handle down is best for safety, despite gravity. You just need to trust the strength of the clip and use a lanyard for backup.

[@spoonerbooner]

Always have a knife.. keep it hidden but handy, used it more for lunch prep than resuce, jokes abut a spreadable blade width abound. But always have a sharp blade to hand, your butties will thank you

[@alexnormal3031]

how about OMER mini laser spearfishing knife?

[@GearGarageTV]

It looks like it's really hard to cut rope with that knife

[@nick_sapsford]

How does operating the whistle work with it attached to the zippers by a ring? It seems hard to reach/awkward or potentially opening your pocket to use it? I have mine tethered on thin hair ties so I can move my head any way with the whistle in my mouth, with it being stored under a sheath in the shoulder strap,what do you think? Same idea as your knife tie, if there’s any real force on it those thin ties snap at the point they’re glue pretty easily.

[@GearGarageTV]

The whistle works fine attached to a ring on the zipper. Since the pocket closes when the zipper is up it won't open the pocket. Your method sound good too.

[@matthewcentofanti6403]

I Wrap duct tape around the handle of the knife so it wont fall out

[@hnovak38]

I'm using knife similar to your folding gerber and i tied a litle peice of paracord thru a hole that is used for opening the blade with thumb so i can open it with my teeth if my hands are cold or somthing

[@GearGarageTV]

I'm not super excited about the idea of opening a knife with my teeth. Can you explain?

[@hnovak38]

Sorry for the delayed reply, i hope picture will help. You tie a short peice of 4-5mm string thrue a hole on the blade that is ment to help by opening a knife with one hand and then if you have cold hands or work with gloves you can grab that string with teith and pull the blade out. So you dont bite the blade, just that string drive.google.com/file/d/1Oe0r0W4XBHjliaHZWAwKFNwYIRGNi1-J/view?usp=drivesdk

[@mariochingon3842]

Wrap a small zip tie around the clips on the sheath, it makes the clips not easy to open on their own but still able to yank it out if needed. I have the shorty 👌 great vid!

[@GearGarageTV]

Yes I've had a few people suggest that with the river shorty but I worry a little that it won't be able to yank out when needed.

[@mariochingon3842]

@@GearGarageTV test it out bro, you can always cut the tie out if it don't workout. I used one of the smaller ones, it don't put too much force on it basically keeps the tabs from spreading open on their own 👌👌

[@toddwalsh3332]

So lanyards are not recommended in swift water ?

[@GearGarageTV]

Correct. The could get caught on something which could be a danger.

[@VideoTroy12]

The best attachment point I have used for rafting was on the side waist attachment on the ExtraSport Swiftwater Fury. Out of the way of most everything needing to do on a raft but could get to. Gave up trying to use a kayak vest for rafting with external knife. Went with a folding knife inside the front pocket and love it. I have a little coil lanyard that stretches to arm length but also prevents accidental drops. I can also break it if needed. I am comfortable with having to unzip my front pocket to get to my knife. I figure if that is a problem I got bigger problems anyways. Lol.

[@GearGarageTV]

Great points - thank you for the comment

[@henryswood]

My wife told me; when a rope is around your ankle, attached to a boat (raft), and you are under a rock, … finding the knife may not help. If you can even find it, or reach it, could you do anything before you pass out? With water rushing around you and the fear of losing, it may be difficult. The failure of the D-ring patch, is why I have her today.

[@henryswood]

I Love that Woman! 😎

[@requiscatinpace7392]

Carry a knife, save your life! If it goes tits up and your losing dexterity through adrenal dump that fine motor skill movement of opening a folding knife not to mention you pouches zipper is going to cause you a world of hurt. I keep a blunt tip fixed blade knife (Gerber River Shorty) in a discreet location.I’ve found this the best solution for me. Just my two cents worth

[@robgrey6183]

If you're working with rope, whether it's running rivers, climbing, or working with horses, you need to keep a sharp knife handy. It's just a matter of practicality, and has nothing to do with "sending messages".

[@GearGarageTV]

For some people it is about sending messages. Some of the most commonly used external knives can barely cut rope.

[@denniswhite9750]

show us how??? you blow your whistle? Used much more often than any knife

[@GearGarageTV]

Here you go kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYbdc5aQm7h7o9U