RMAF13: High End Sound On A Budget: Superlative Sound During Tough Times

Moderator: Ken Kessler, Senior Contributing Editor, Hi-Fi News & Record Review
Panelists: Roy Hall, Music Hall; Joe Harley, AudioQuest; and Andrew Jones, TAD
Discuss the need for and proliferation of new generation of "affordable high-end" gear, like AudioQuest Dragonfly, MartinLogan Motion 15, Pro-Ject Elemental Turntable, etc.

[@dixielandfarm]

I really enjoyed this presentation - well done!

[@jackon6546]

The biggest improvement in sound quality is achieved through the use of weed.

[@DPSingh-px4xu]

Yeah...that's the real truth. All low end hi-fi components should include a 6 month supply of King Kush...

[@tom20152]

Jack On: and the taxes for that are your brain, body, and your finance too.

[@atomlow]

Funny!

[@justkiddin1980]

hahaha that was a great comment...man...yeah...man....love it...

[@MrJaykay660]

Yes , do you stuff it in your ears when listening to rock music .

[@soundman2604]

After a decade of toying around with vintage receivers, which is all I could afford, and I had some monsters, I realized that, you can get a very nice sounding system through an upgraded or restored vintage receiver. Also many pro audio amps can be picked up relatively cheaply and they sound very nice, I'm still a fan of vintage stereo amps. A well made pro audio amp can sound just as good and if not better that many of the so called "audiophile amps". This industry has a lot of "snake oil" and "bs". Its like chasing the wind without being able to grab it. Always trying to get something better without even realizing that a lot of it is in the head not in the hearing. Also our hearing is only limited to certain frequencies, so all these outrageous specs from modern equipment are often meaningless. I would rather listen to a musical amp with poor specs than listen to a thin and lifeless sounding amp with specs out of this world. Who even has the time to check specs anyway? Have you ever seen a dog go in circles chasing its own tail? :-) Yes, this hobby can be addicting and time consuming, I'm speaking from experience. You don't have to give up the hobby just be able to have common sense and self control. All the best to everyone!

[@superspit]

Brilliant!! Much food for thought!

[@atomlow]

This video can seem like watching paint dry but there was a lot of great information discussed. The sound is bad, the conference room seems like a dungeon chamber but again the content is really good. I appreciate these HIFI conferences having budget system talks. Entry level and a little higher up is where it's at.

[@christophernoto]

Yes. I have greatly enjoyed these hideously recorded sessions, and, though I have never been there, it is sad to hear that there will, apparently, never be another RMAF.

[@dilbyjones]

Feels good to see this 5 years later! Heros!

[@hifiman4562]

My biggest breakthrough came from using a minidsp processor. Set my own crossover, use time alignment, filters for equalization. Fantastic output.

[@jeffsloane8628]

Ha! I actually did buy the ELAC B6s and gave them to my son. He love's them! Thank you Mr. Jones!

[@stevekim8748]

I just purchased the ELAC B6s and they are arriving in a few days. I bought the ELACs because the Pioneer BS 22s sound very good to me with near field listening. The Pioneers made me a fan of the very affordable sound produced by speakers designed by Andrew Jones. I am curious how the ELACs will sound. If they are as good as many people are saying, I'll be very satisfied in my music listening experience and journey.

[@bobsoldrecords1503]

I bought the B6s shortly after they hit the market. They keep getting better over time.

[@mikehydropneumatic2583]

Did Roy call me an old geezer (age 44) LOL. Got some of his gear and imho is good value. Keep up the good work guys. Great video.

[@KevinBower-gy5be]

"It's the only luxury sector which hasn't grown in the last 20 years" says Ken Kessler in his opening statement. I'm genuinely interested in high-quality sound (and once owned a full Naim CDS/XPS/NAC 52/Supercap/2 x NAP135 system, all bought 2nd or 3rd-hand over a long time period because that's all I could afford), but I genuinely despair at many of the things I see and hear relating to quality audio nowadays - it just seems like the whole industry is gradually disappearing up its own backside, with every miniscule 'improvement' costing another ten grand or so, and with so many commentators seemingly obsessed with their own grossly inflated self-importance. I'm also 100% convinced that the majority of audiophiles are way more interested in the equipment than the music - and maybe that's the reason why 99% of the music played through demo systems is utter crap - but well-recorded and well-produced crap specifically chosen to show the gear in its best possible (and often very, very narrow) light. So why isn't the sector growing? Simply because the target market - wealthy, middle-aged men ranging from professional guys at the top of their tree, all the way through to Russian oligarchs - predominantly have zero desire to own a very specialised and ultra-niche status symbol which simply doesn't interest them in the same way that a Rolex Oyster or a Bugatti Veyron does. And why? Simply because these types of guys can't show it off to the world to display how cool, successful and rich they are. It sits in the basement and no-one out there will ever see it. Just my 10 cents worth.

[@redstrat1234]

Fascinating talk

[@andrewaldridge4260]

Well JBL K2 S9900 were very memorable. There was a weird looking horn speaker I don't know the name it was about 7 ft tall and came to a point and was one of those moments. I regret not taking the details at the time. Best live sound too many to mention.

[@AntPDC]

I love Ken Kessler as journalist, contrarian, polemicist, even demagogue. I've been reading him for most of my lifetime. Just don't take him too seriously, never literally. He's always entertaining.

[@DeadKoby]

I actually liked this presentation... Although I really love listening to music.... I have greatly benefited from being handy with a soldering iron. I bought some very good used speakers... and fixed some very good late 70's amplifiers.... the combination is dreamy. I think that speaker technology has gotten better since the 70's... but amps that I can afford have gone backwards. For those of you who really dig music and sound, and want to get into the culture, be aware, trust your ears, and find some second hand goodies.

[@dell177]

Years ago I was working for a small power supply company and we had a contract to build 700 custom power supplies for the intelligence agencies, These would be used to drive communications gear and the design was from the early 80's and it was approved by the government. This was in the early days of switch mode so the unit had a 13" long custom heatsink on one side. We owned the die for this extrusion and I could call up and order however many feet I needed and have it shipped to a fabricator to drill and mill to our specifications. A salesman I knew asked us for a chance at building them in China (this was is 1998) for less money than I could buy the aluminum stock for. We decided to try it and placed an order for 700 to be delivered in 60 days (on our dock), I told him I'd like to have a sample to make sure everything was ok before they ran the whole lot. 45 days later he have me a heatsink and said there was aproblem with some swaged in standoffs. I told him they had drilled the mounting holes too large and to change the drill size. That was when he told me he had 705 of them in his garage. I told him he would have to replace the standoffs with a screw, washer and a 3/4" spacer - 3 per heatsink. i ordered all the parts for our supplier and gave them to him. He and his kids spent a long weekend retrofitting them and delivered them the dollowing Tuesday. This is why you have to have someone in China to oversee things so errors get caught before the run is done. It is very hard to control what someone does 10,000 miles away (and in a different language), you also have to watch out for part substitutions that could be disastrous. Also in many cases they want minimum quantities in the tens of thousands.

[@TheLeaderCinema]

At 20:40 Ken mentions that some manufacturers at the show announce "Proudly NOT made in China". B&O once made in Denmark now assembles in the Czech Republic. The guts..mostly designed by manufactured by Tympany in...you guessed it ....China. B&O still commands the use of healthy checkbooks and Black Amex Cards !

[@dylandjm99]

this class is something every person in the world should listen to and not for high end I hope i can say what I mean the human behavior in business and life?

[@TheRealNewBlackMusic]

back in the 70's ppl on low budgets were very much into their audio gear. You could go into the public housing projects in new york city and find big technics and fisher pioneer , kenwood nec and sansui systems . now folks are into high end headphones. In our view the audiophile culture is just like the music industry old and stale.

[@AudiophileTubes]

What a completely stupid and ignorant statement! Audiophiles back then, and now, seek out great sounding gear, whether you're talking a large home stereo system using separates, or a portable lightweight lossless digital player coupled with great headphones or earbuds. There is nothing 'old and stale' about being passionate about music and it's proper reproduction!

[@afrog2666]

My mom and my stepdad bought a sony quadro system, with tapedeck vinyl deck and receiver and it was a years income at the time they got it. Saved up for a looong time to put it that way. Pretty big speaker, roofmounted in each corner, and the setup took a big shelf in the middle of the living room, and the tv wasn`t the centre of the living room as it mostly is nowadays.. That system lasted all the years from the late 70`s until I got it and the receiver was stolen from me.. Anyway, you don`t really see people having half their living room filled with audio gear anymore except enthusiasts that is.. Personally I can`t have the sound I want because of neighbours. If I lived in a house outside the city, my living room would be STUFFED with sound lol.. Buuuut I`m about to move into a 37.5 m2 apartment and they have a pretty strict set of rules there, no loud parties etc.. One day I`ll afford a house outside of oslo and THEN, the sound shall be significant! Music should be physically felt as well as heard :D Do love all my heaphones tho, kinda need`em for late nights, or any time I want to get LOUD..

[@Fredmullegun]

@AudiophileTubes "Audiophiles back then, and now, seek out great sounding gear" unless you are conveniently changing the definition of audiophile to make your statement correct, I totally disagree. People now are buying stylish gear with brand recognition, convenience features and looks over great sound.

[@afrog2666]

Back then, good sound usually meant VERY visible sound systems, so they became part of the furniture, they WERE furniture.. Just because things are better now than then, and take less space etc., doesn`t mean it wasn`t relatively good. For the time etc.. the looks have changed with the times, the conveniences like, bluetooth, wifi, and other types of connectivity, the compact sizes and efficient sound have also come with the times. What are you like FIVE? Don`t you realize that back then good sound was BIG, everything was BIG, pc`s were huge, good speakers were huge, amps were huuuuge.. Its not like people went like: "ooh look at this, it costs a fortune, its huge and hideous and compared to some unknown product coming 50 years from now it will sound like crap, but I`ll buy it because REASONS.." For the time, people DID buy what was considered stylish (who`s the judge of style anyway..) And they paid out the ass to get a recognized brand with as many features and as much convenience as possible.. If you want confirmation of this, ask someone who was at least 20 in the 70`s that was into sound back then, most of them spent a LOT of money to get something good and they were very much into active listening (much because of the analogue formats) and music was more of an event than it is now that half the planet have become passive and casual listeners. Define audiophile for me? While you`re at it, tell me what is stylish too lol.. ;)

[@afrog2666]

Maybe I came off as a little sarcastic.. Much intended..

[@hongliak3129]

never plugged and unplugged your I c cables every two days ,cos contacts needed time to settle down to sound good .

[@cengeb]

Another AUDIO seminar with people that don't know how a mic works! POP POP thump! Audio experts, funny stuff

[@onebumstead7233]

Very true. I suppose they are about audio reproduction rather than capture. A musician would know how to use a mic but could the musician intuitively design an amplifier?

[@catrinacompositions]

I think engineers like Jones mean well, but all you have to do is listen to some of the entries for Dayton speaker making contests here at youtube to realize that consumer audio - including so called 'high end' - standards are very low. Everything to 'a price' has a low standard. Everything. But when someone loves music and makes systems with their hands...something magical happens. The 'cost performance ratio' goes totally askew, totally. DIY is the future of audio. And most people excepting the lowest income or no income, and invalids, can get into it.

[@taniamartin6356]

Funny, the sound on this video, about audio, is awful.

[@isettech]

I was about to mention it, but read the comments first. I think the noise is related to the stack of wireless receivers in the background, or the lack of an audio engineer on the sound board who knows to set nominal levels to run the signal way above the noise floor. The equipment has a VU meter for a reason. Conference room or concert, signals on the mixer should be maintained to maintain the signal above the noise.

[@shughy1]

The SM58 microphone is more suited to rock singers and saliva

[@alinutzalin6346]

I got into audio because of different things like: Stupid TV sound don't make bass "even if now I got a decent sounding TV", no imaging, boomy bass, Seeing nice setups in KZbinrs office, needing something better than my monitor's integrated speakers and ditch the headphones even tho they're really good and so on. I first got a pair of kef koda 3 I believe which are pretty old for 20 gbp and bought a griffin twenty amp which has bluetooth as well but mainly bought it for its sub out. I was astonished, the voices sounded so clear and the bass so punchy, like anything else I've ever heard. The cinema is overrated but don't quote me on that since I only went to cinema 3 times and nothing to which I wanted to see since I was with the family had anything good, something like minions and stuff, w/e. While the speakers were really good and got me perplexed when I heard fireworks, the other miracle is when I bought some b&w dm602 for 150 gbp mint condition off of ebay. They have completely different aspect. The reproduced sound when playing movies is astonishing and when put in my tiny living room, got the bass to send spines up my back, even tho I don't have stands yet, but yoga blocks do it for the moment. The exiting bit is, my uncle which is a fan of Bose got around to see the speakers. Sat down in the middle of the room and drank while playing his favorite songs and also started dancing. At the moment, I bought another pair of speakers which are X300A from Kef, active speakers which I put in the living room, and they sound better than b/w, not sure why, price difference? better amp? Anyway, while the bass region is nowhere near the b/w for movies, still makes up for the clarity, probably because of coaxial design. Well. One thing I learned is that used is the best way to buy stuff. Because most of the time, people either don't use them much or keep them in good condition for resell, like me :D. I plan to build my own speakers too in the future, but is a lot to spend for which design I want.

[@the14u36]

I have been playing with audio for almost 40 years, with the advant of ebay I was able to buy all of my childhood dreams that i had red about in magazines. THis would of never been able to happen if i had to buy new. anyway one day i had several components on the floor i was mixing and matching and pow i stumbled upon something amazing what i call perfect sound. at least to my brain anyway. I had been listing to a harmond Kardon 130 receiver i sounded really good but something was mission. I added a panasonic digital amp to the tweeters and that was it. It was magic made in heaven. Through many trips to audio shows listing to systems over 100,000 grand not one sounded as good as mine.

[@ratedAD]

+the14u36 I envy you. Can you tell us more about your full setup?

[@the14u36]

Densen b400 Plus cd player, in to a digital xover to a panasonic digital amp for the tweeters and a harmond kardon 130 for the bottoms. Newformresearch speakers. analyst plus speaker wire and xlo rcs. belive it or not it was right on the money.

[@bobc3895]

Getting something manufactured in China is not easy unless you have someone on site to sign off on ANY changes to materials or design. It's almost impossible to do that over the phone, somebody has to put their hands on it to make sure something hasn't unintentionally happened that is going to alter the operation. In the late 90's i was working for a very small company (6 employees) and we got a contract to build 700 power supplies to a design that I had been part of 6 years before (the original company had gone under a couple of years before). We had the original prints but had to do some respinning of circuit boards and some re-immagining of the physical design. This supply jad a large custom heatsink on one side (12x5x1.5"). We had access to the original die but then the heatsink had to undergo a fair amount of milling to work in the application. By the time all was said and done it was going to cost us about $30 each. One of our former coworkers represented a Chinese manufacturer who did chassis and heatsinks, they came back with a cost of $12 ea on our dock (actually in the parking lot). I questioned him closely and asked if we could het a sample for inspection before they started the main run. They agreed and a couple of months later Ted showed up with that sample, it was perfect EXCEPT A line of swaged in standoffs had the mounting holes drilled a bit to large so the standoffs were not all straight. Ted explaing they had drilled the holes before they had the standoffs and misinterpreted the hole spec. I asked if they could adjust the hole size before doing the run. He looked at me and stammered "I have 700 more in my garage right now". I took the heatsink and a blank board to saw the holes were all in the right spot so I could remove those swaged in standoffs and replace them with normal standoffs and hardware. I ordered the hardware and gave 725 sets of hardware to Ted and told him to install the hardware in the heatsinks. He and his son worked on them over the weekend and delivered them to us the following Monday. Such are the perils of manufacturing product overseas without your own inspectors.

[@bareknuckles2u]

Wow, look at all the girls in the audience!

[@stephenstrings]

Harsh But funny

[@hurkamur1]

bareknuckles2u Awful lotta neckbeards tho 😂

[@bareknuckles2u]

hurkamur1 LOL!

[@raymondleggs5508]

these are all old basement nerds at middle age :-D

[@MrJaykay660]

Don't you have a way of checking your audio volume level before uploading video . greetings from the Rocky Mountain International Hearing impairment Fest .

[@denniswade6727]

It's amazing that even when companies do build affordable equipment, so many still do it with the usual "elitist" attitude of "it's for the "civilians", the "common" people.

[@MichaelOZimmermannJCDECS]

Roy, a microphone is not to play around with, but to speak into...

[@jimmcdowell8504]

What is the model number on the speaker...?

[@justthebeginning1448]

+Jim McDowell Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers

[@jimmcdowell8504]

Thank You!

[@justthebeginning1448]

Glad I could help!

[@1mykalfury]

+Jim McDowell Take it from a recording artist Jim, the A. Jones system that's kicking real world ass for under $500 is the Pioneer SP-PK52FS Andrew Jones 5.0 Home Theater Speaker Package Nothing can come close to this. I've left out the subwoofer as they're subjective to the user. You get the point. I've gotta' 7.1 Surround system that's dialed & raises the hair on your neck. These speakers dialed in the same fashion will improve upon what I run. So I'll be buying the Pioneer 5.0 setup To retire my other 7 satellites. I will keep my Accurian 125 watt powered sub though. Goodluck Jim.

[@jimmcdowell8504]

Thanks!

[@sdushdiu]

Audio - the only market where the real study of acoustical physics is either openly disdained or deemed to be incapable of accounting for the behavior of the very devices it is similarly claimed that require decades of exotic edumacation to design. The term "audiophool" is no accident.

[@derbigpr500]

+sdushdiu Please, as an engineer, I'll ask you to stop with the circlejerking and thinking that people who build speakers are idiots. There's stuff in that industry that is FAR above your head that you can't possibly understand. To me , audiophool is a term best used for people who automatically dismiss anything that they can't afford as horrible, bad, overpriced, usually without EVER hearing it or trying it out. Stop being ignorant. Yes , there's snake oil and a lot of bullshit out there, but you have to be a complete idiot to put the ENTIRE AUDIO INDUSTRY into one single bucket and act as if it's all the same. A guy who sells a 5000 dollar power cord is very different from a guy who designs a 5000 dollar amplifier or a 5000 dollar speaker.

[@sdushdiu]

derbigpr500 Yawn, so many words and so little substance. And yet you fail to address ANY of the specific issues mentioned that literally dominate consumer audio! The irony is that many DO understand audio and acoustics, from Don Davis, Gene Patronis, Russ Berger, Don Keele, Dick Heyser, Peter D'Antonio, etc.... Meanwhile the MAJORITY of consumer audio is dominated by concerns such as invalid RT60 Calculations made in small acoustical spaces that Lack of a statistically reverberant sound field, a focus on the derivative frequency domain characterized by comb filtering and the corresponding spatial polar lobing that results from the superposition of various time variant signals....Meanwhile we get to listen to idiots who focus on small signal analysis when the gross environmental and pyschoacoustical factors swamp the preoccupation with small signal analysis. The problem is NOT simply snake oil BS, but the problem remains the basic ignorance in fundamental acoustics and of the interaction of a device modeled in a vacuum with real world environments.

[@MarkTillotson]

EEVBlog's video on audiophoolery - go watch it.

[@justkiddin1980]

@@sdushdiu WOW THIS COMMENT ALMOST MADE ME BUST A NUT!! you are so right!! it is possible to do great audio at a affordable cost...and you need to tune it to your ears...just play around and take the time to listen...it does not (in my opinion) have to be rocket science..And i like old skool stuff...btw

[@goldenboy5500]

this video is almost ag good as watching paint dry

[@bareknuckles2u]

...almost, but not quite!

[@dhpbear2]

not to mention the picture is distorted - note the black bars.

[@Walker71820061]

Its funny how this video & your comment are xyz years ago but the commentary on a bunch of different topics that were touched are so relative xyz years later. I say 👍👍 for a great presentation.

[@benmiller388]

Does anyone on this panel still have adequate hearing to listen to music??

[@Mikexception]

I tried to respond to You completly but failed. So only this - yes they have

[@justkiddin1980]

probably not.....all to old...cant hear shit above 16 or 17 khz

[@Baerchenization]

@@justkiddin1980 Why don't you go an inform yourself what that actually means? Because losing the upper 4K does not mean you lost 25% of your hearing ability. It actually matters very little.

[@justkiddin1980]

@@Baerchenization yeah i already know that...what is your point?? the only thing i wanted to say is when you are younger you can hear higher notes and it graduatly gets less when you get older...most musical instruments do not reach 17 khz...i know...

[@sringer007]

What are the names of these products?

[@TobyBurt]

www.pioneer.com.au/au/products/42/99/161/SP-BS22LR/page.html www.audioquest.com/usb_digital_analog_converter/dragonfly-dac Have no idea regarding turntable.

[@carafusco7878]

Anthony Burt Music Hall turn tables

[@carafusco7878]

Cara Fusco /Project

[@TejasM14]

One of the guys on the panel works for Audioquest which sells an HDMI cable for $13,500. No kidding, just go to amazon and look up the prices. Don't waste your time with these people telling what "affordable stuff" to buy.

[@MichelLinschoten]

Tejas Mallela HDMI is digital....0 and 1 go through it. No cable cheap or expensive changes that. Lol

[@afrog2666]

Welfare hasn`t gone up by any factors here lol.. I know a few who get state support, and had it myself, you get just enough to get by, until you need a doctor, new clothes etc, then its oatmeal and noodles for a few weeks, and then something else turns up so you can`t buy shoes with no holes after all :p Btw, norway does NOT have free healthcare..

[@afrog2666]

You can go, get treated, then the bill arrives. They`ll save your life for free, but mostly you have to pay.. My doctor is pretty cheap, but the accident I was in cost me a pretty penny, and I wasn`t even at fault. Because the idiot who caused the accident was swedish, everything went through the swedish insurance company, and I only got reimbursed for my bike, not my medical bills. Its been 7 years or so and I still need physiotherapy and medication. Receiving welfare there is a limit for what you have to pay monthly, but I have bi-weekly payments to the doctor, and monthly payments for physio. Put shortly, if you`re in pain, you pay for aid, if you are dying, the state will pay for you. Probably to keep the workforce or something. "humanitarian aid" lol.. I just don`t like all the rumours being spread, making norway seem like some kind of paradise. People say disabled people get free cars here etc, which by my information has happened ONCE. People come here and exploit the system and it ultimately hurts people like me, who have worked and want to work, but can`t. We are turning into a haven for leeches. Rant over, sorry about the long post :p

[@Audioholics]

The target audience can be attracted if the BS in the audio industry stops. This includes stop perpetuating psuedo science in cables like slapping batteries on cables or solving problems that don't exist and violate basic engineering principals. Next, rather than promoting the greatest breakthrough in 20 years as slapping "more speakers" on top of each other to achieve an "immersive bubble" of sound, how about focusing on the quality and set up of a basic 5.2 or 7.2 setup instead?

[@spkprobe2]

+Audioholics cables make a difference , if you dont like, dont buy, it's not like it's Obamacare where you are forced to take it . If you think they are a waste of $$$ dont buy .. regards

[@rickkernell6131]

+spkprobe2 Do real analysis of any cable that you like, involve technicians and engineers in the process, not subjectiveists like the idiots writing for most of the magazines. If the cable follows the rules of transmission lines, low resistance, low capacitance and inductance then any more expensive cables are merely a way to remove money from gullible people.

[@spkprobe2]

Not really and i have, All cables are RLC circuits, the sound differences most hear is due to their RLC makeup and of course their noise rejection and mechanical coupling .. Because of , all cables will sound different ..

[@robertocalderonabogado1427]

+Audioholics You are listening to music, which is subjective to each individual. Different quality cables do sound different when compared in hi definition speakerst. if you do not notice the difference, it`s fine; not everyone has educated or sensitive ear. The so called "engineering principals" in 10 or 15 years ahead will be re-evaluated if not knocked down by new knowledge and new measurement equipment, so don`t let since dictate how you enjoy music. calling "pseudo science" the work of people who is developing, experimenting and trying new things with better materials and design is not good. A word of advice: make of Audioholics a good brand of speakers, amps, cables or something. get a great marketing director, change the logo, (looks like the free masons sign), and let us costumers hear how your products sound, in stead of trashing other peoples work. Remember no one has ever build a monument or place a statue of a critic. Only artists and creators will be remembered thru history.

[@raffiequler7510]

+Audioholics Hey Gene, maybe you should stop promoting those crappy Yamaha receivers. Recommending an NAD amp would do everybody much more service than promoting receivers with tiny power supplies.

[@SenorZorrozzz]

Hi. Don't do what everyone did back in the day: buy a record, play it, handle it with your fingers all over it, throw away the sleeve, toss it under your bed with all your other albums......

[@LazerViking81]

dont talk bad about PRO_JECT i fucking love my RCM was the best bye with the ortofon 2m black in the past 10 years

[@ripedecomp]

LINN .................. aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh LP12!

[@raymondleggs5508]

Nice audioquest plug. The pioneer speakers are good though but the newer polk T series is better.

[@Audiodreamer192-24]

Actually they don’t…. I listened to both extensively before I bought the whole pioneer series… besides the polks only having a bare bones 1st order crossover where as the pioneers have 6 element on the bs, and 8 element on the fs. Also build quality is superior on the pioneers as well. The polks sound reasonably decent for what they have to work with,but don’t hold a candle to the pioneers for balance and overall sound quality. Every comparison review I’ve ever seen also say the pioneers are better. Having said all that…. For the money the polks are decent.

[@raymondleggs5508]

@@Audiodreamer192-24 3 years old comment lol

[@Audiodreamer192-24]

@@raymondleggs5508 lol I know but I just happened on it today. Lol

[@prototype9000]

so they consider 300,000 as less andl ess money

[@ddanny3108]

Where is his beard? I miss hifi news.

[@richardmurphy9006]

I cant Hear This! says something about the Shit I`m listening on

[@bellrobert1978]

Ken Kessler if you read this just some feedback. Let people finish their point before jumping in. You've interrupted the panel on several occasions.

[@melissamybubbles6139]

Can we get some younger people in marketing?

[@utubecomment21]

The difference between a Toyota Yaris and a Bugatti is huge. If a customer can't discern between a set of $100 RCA cables and a set of $10,000 RCA cables, for what use is 'High-End'? The other problem is that because of the internet, the hidden costs aren't so hidden anymore. One can buy the same components that Sonus Faber, Rockport, Wilson Audio use in their speakers, for next to nothing. I've seen $30 Vifa, Peerless, Scanspeak components being used in speakers costing $10,000's. The game is up! The third issue is that I have '5 Star What-HiFi' award winning speakers, and they are garbage compared to speakers i built myself. There is too much commercial interest & influence that simply does not benefit the enthusiast, from Pioneer speaker to MBL speakers, Period!!

[@utubecomment21]

In terms of 'Judgement, my ears have the final say, regardless of armchair pundits and/or media soundbites!

[@utubecomment21]

The issue I have with 'so called' high-end audio is that my ears still have the final say regardless of materials, graphs or again armchair pundits. The thought comes after all the measurements, and marketing talk about what components to whatever they do; Yes, but how does it sound? When it come to measurements, i have heard equipment that on paper looked .... looked good, but in reality, left me wanting. We can talk and have all the debate we want, however in the end, there have been few really high-end, and I'm talking about systems i've fitted in excess of £100,000, .... that have ever really impressed me. The best system I have heard was around the £3-4k.

[@bosnbruce5837]

$100 RCA cables? Try $20 :D

[@Veldoril]

23:23 :(

[@trekjudas]

If this guy is on a mission to be unpleasant and unlikable, he has succeeded!

[@TheOneAndOnlySame]

Audiophiles, audio engineers, high end audio ... and still : sound capture is absolute shit ! Lol guys ! Interesting conf nevertheless :)

[@vetsen]

I agree with you, but to their credit, they are not sound engineers, they are in the business of audio reproduction, not audio production. The content was better than most RMAF lectures. You should check out the vids RMAF computer audio. The guy is talking out his ass (wallet).

[@dedskin1]

Dragonfly DAC is 200$ on freaking internet WTF , its not entry or cheap , somehow i doubt it sound like 200$ looks like 10$

[@fabers92]

Pavle Pavlovic You add that to a pair of £100 headphones and you're set. For people who stream through their phones etc. How much does an iPhone cost? Laptop?

[@markfischer3626]

You pay more and more and get less and less. This is exactly the opposite of other consumer products, especially in electronics.

[@artsahobby123]

They started talking about 200 dollar speakers to 20 thousand ones. Bye.

[@ezvkm77]

Schiit Audio!

[@twochaudiomg2578]

See these guys,,, , you need to get a younger listener in the hobby. We go to these shows and its all old men. With that curtain Old msn Sent Work on Getting new blood in the hobby.

[@cengeb]

This is sad!

[@bareknuckles2u]

OMG, the host is so full of his own BS!

[@jogmas12]

But he directed traffic, kept the subject on the subject. They going on a tangent for a while there talking about 3d printing.

[@rationalguy2941]

All that from a chump wearing a snake oil copper wristband

[@henrymiecz8566]

If these guys are advocating more Chinese manufacturing then they can count the degradation of the hobby in years rather than decades as people like me that can afford it will never shell out big bucks for Chinese made products ever.Its big bucks for areason and that made in countries we can trust.

[@apollomemories73]

+Henry Miecz Countries we can trust?! Oh c'mon Henry - look at Taiwan - it used to make just cheap shoes - look at what's being made there now. It's all about market forces. Do you trust German car manufacturers today as much as perhaps you did 6 months ago?

[@henrymiecz8566]

I can justify paying big bucks for a German or American product because I figure they have to pay wages to people that are highly skilled and make a decent living. It has been proven time and again that even with the switch to Chinese production, the price doesn't change which only means that the companies are pocketing the rest. If everyone was willing to buy high priced Chinese products then every company would move production from here to china but if everyone were like me that don't buy foreign products then companies would never move production because they wouldn't sell anything. Besides, when I own a high priced item and I turn it over and it says made in USA or Germany or Canada etc I feel proud. When I have a high priced item and it says made in china on the back, I feel ashamed as the sucker/Benedict Arnold who paid a high price for a cheap item.

[@apollomemories73]

Henry Miecz I think your sense of nationalism is getting the better of your rational. And a very out of date stance. The world has moved on. Talking of pocketing the profits - you can't have failed to have seen all the news reports on the criminality of these top German car manufacturers.

[@daveh9474]

+Henry Miecz The most skilled people building anything are those trained and practice. Foxconn make literally every phone laptop xbox playstation, nintendo. Just because they make 20 bucks a day doesn't mean it's junk OR that they dont NEED THE 20 BUCKS TO LIVE. why would you rather pay wealthy white people? consciously deciding to pay wealthier people more money over poor people less money is sick. if the product is similar. and it is similar. Amps have been perfected for decades. and the big companies can pay more for engineering and economy of scale on good quality parts by moving production to china.

[@jaapaap5]

a disgrace for the real high end people.

[@mikemidulster]

Two capitalists arguing about 'communism' Ha ha. I'm sorry Joe, but the regime which ruled the USSR during the 1980s was neither communist or socialist. In fact Communism has never existed except as an idea. I admire the social democratic principles of these designers/ sellers - that they want everyone to have access to the pleasure which good audio equipment can bring, but there is no 'communism' involved in their thinking because the main motive for their activity is profit just as with every other seller of commodities. Something which is not mentioned, and which should be of utmost importance to those who claim to have a social conscience, is the human cost of producing cheaper products which poor people in the West can afford. Working conditions for those whose actual labour is required in the production of this audio gear are dire by any standards. The panellists talk about the profits margins for manufacturers, distributors etc, whose socially useful labour input to the product is tiny compared with those who work on the production lines. These workers are only referred to as 'labour cost', and this is seen as an inconvenience, yet without them there would be no product.

[@latuman]

What's the deal here? Why is _everyone_ over 50? Worse your hearing gets over time, the more likely you are going to be an audiophile. Crazy shit.

[@TobyBurt]

Audiophile isn't about how well you can hear, it's about how well you have trained yourself to listen to and enjoy music. Yes, there is a gradual loss of high frequency capability as you age but compare a 12yo kid that can hear extremely well and a 30yo that is limited around 18khz (or lower) who do you think can listen better?... it's about understanding, comprehension and training.

[@latuman]

David J First, your sentences make no sense. Your grammar is very poor. Second; I know plenty of young music enthusiasts who enjoy their hobby on their own, not taking part of these hifi circlejerk sessions, whatever they may be. It is actually your bankrupt reply that is idiotic, so go fuck yourself if you don't have anything smart to say. It is also ridiculous to think that a young person can't know how to "listen" to music. Maybe the difference is only that old farts usually have more income and can waste money on placebo amps and cables and thats how they get into conferences. Who knows.

[@Coilaman]

Can you hear me fart?

[@chadashton7029]

MuristekTV Yes, because it's a low frequency so us older folks are able to hear it.

[@cengeb]

Trained how to listen .....another audiophlake buzz word

[@timcoker4685]

These "Audiophiles" are boring as hell!!. I'm going to crank up Black Sabbaths Paranoid on my all mighty 70s Sansui stereo system. Hopefully that will wake me up. I can make all this short and simple,buy yourself a good quality 70s hi end stereo....that's all you need!!