All About London's ENORMOUS Suburban Rail Network

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We've talked a lot about London's core urban rail services such as the Tube, the Elizabeth Line, and the Thameslink, but what about the massive network of suburban rail lines of the city? Let's take a closer look.
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[@RMTransit]

Watch the bonus video on how the expansive London suburban rail network is connected to its urban rail services on Nebula now: nebula.tv/videos/rmtransit-how-tfl-ties-londons-railways-together Special thanks to Tyson Moore & Martha Lauren for helping with this video - it was a doozy to put together!

[@gregorybrett1142]

Great video! I've always thought London deserved a video of its substantial non TfL rail network after seeing your video on Tokyo, my favourite on your channel. I've always wondered if London, when combining all rail services, has the world's 2nd most complex network outside of Japan's capital. A lot of it is definitely underutilised though, I think we can do better than some of the 2 train per hour frequencies and questionable connectivity between certain lines due to the railway's competitive capitalist origins. I wonder how the upcoming national elections will change things given rail nationalisation is on the agenda of the (likely) future Prime Minister. Perhaps London will finally have control of all of its suburban railways?

[@whyyoulidl]

Bravo Reece! Geoff and Jago would approve 👍🏿

[@tomheadington4762]

Fun fact: Clapham junction is the busiest train station in Europe by no. Of trains with over 200 trains in an hour passing through in peak times

[@TysonIke]

The departures board must look crazy

[@grassytramtracks]

​@@TysonIke a lot of those don't stop though, and I think the station is quite separated between the southern part and the south western railway part, but still a very complicated station

[@HesterClapp]

I swear Zürich hbf is busier, if you include S-Bahn

[@katrinabryce]

@@grassytramtracks Only Gatwick Express trains run through without stopping. If you are taking any train other than an Overground service which have their own dedicated platforms, it is a bit overwhelming trying to figure out where to go.

[@katrinabryce]

@@HesterClapp Clapham Junction is mostly through services, except for the Overground. That means that each line serving the station (except the two Overground lines) has departures in both directions, and each platform (except platforms 1 & 2) can deal with a lot more departures per hour.

[@mildlydispleased3221]

I've never seen Croydon mentioned so many times in a single video, it's heart-warming.

[@kmcat]

You must not watch Crime watch then

[@marblestoday4526]

Finally, we’re important!

[@mildlydispleased3221]

@@kmcat I grew up there, it isn't as bad as people say.

[@jasonhaven7170]

@@kmcat We get it, you don't like diverse areas

[@mdhazeldine]

@@kmcat 😂

[@Ryan-rm6uk]

Fun fact: The DART serving luton airport from the nearby train station costs £4.90 for a 2.3km journey, making it the most expensive train per kilometre in the UK

[@camjkerman]

not more expensive than Covent Garden to Leicester Square (£2.65 iirc for 0.4km)

[@Ryan-rm6uk]

@@camjkerman looks like you're correct, still pretty expensive for what used to be a free bus ride. Also seems most expensive is from Ty Glas to Broombridge in Cardiff, at £2.60 for just over 0.3km.

[@legoisthebest001SCR]

What that costs money? It's free to use the monorail in Birmingham airport...

[@grassytramtracks]

​@@Ryan-rm6uk they already charged people for the bus

[@grassytramtracks]

​@@legoisthebest001SCR these sorts of people movers at airports are almost always free, except Luton which has to be special

[@CynicalPlatapus]

It's funny to me to see a class 720 in the thumbnail, it's actually my job to fix them when they break down in service, i'm even currently watching this while inside the Greater Anglia control room

[@alivinghuman1]

i dont like the 720s, really faulty, plasticy, and cramped. shame theyre one of my local trains (hey at least we get stadlers)

[@CynicalPlatapus]

@@alivinghuman1 the stadlers actually break down way way more

[@alfi_csgo6011]

Hello fellow TOC staff- SWR guard here lol

[@IC-qf7ev]

720s defo are one of the best new EMUs at the moment. Also hello fellow GA colleague

[@HesterClapp]

@@alivinghuman1 I also have 720s locally and I don't see the hate. They're very fast, quite reliable, and great at soaking up capacity!

[@moneycash-1007]

As a Londoner, I've had several years of my life to learn all of this, so I have no idea how you managed to fit it all into under 20 minutes! It's worth pointing out with the half-hourly service point that these trains do have schedules which they (mostly) reliably stick to, so you can time your journey so you aren't waiting that long at the station, and on many routes the interlining of services means that there are trains more frequently, even if they aren't always going exactly where you want to go. Also you spelt Staines wrong (you wrote Stains).

[@rhyswilliams7884]

You also missed out Queenstown Road (between Vauxhall and Clapham Junction)

[@moneycash-1007]

@@rhyswilliams7884 Tbh it's a fairly irrelevant station unless you live or work very near it, whereas Vauxhall and Clapham Junction are bigger interchanges and have a lot more trains stopping.

[@DavidShepheard]

@@rhyswilliams7884 There is a shot of Queenstown Road at 3:05. It's a station with a fairly useless service as the Waterloo-to-Wimbledon commuter trains have no platforms there and the semi-fast trains from Waterloo-to-Putney also have no platforms there. You only get the slow trains from Waterloo-to-Putney and if there is a problem with them you get to watch all the other trains going past you, while you are stuck there. Ideally we will get more Crossrail-like railway lines to bypass the terminal stations of London and a line that shadows the railway from Waterloo to Putney can replace this station with an underground station that has a high freqency service.

[@RMTransit]

It was a lot of work! Staines is funny, Toronto also has a "Staines" but I was very tired!

[@guyr.6053]

Staines is also the home of Ali G 😊

[@Grichal1981]

Before privatisation, there used to be a sector of British Rail called Network SouthEast, which basically ran the entire London and southeastern commuter network. Needless to say, this was far too sensible so it was all broken up and fragmented, and we end up with the confusing mess we have today.

[@RMTransit]

Yeah, the lack of that type of organization today is unfortunate

[@dominicfindlay]

In a way each set of routes having it's own brand can help with know where to go and which terminus to go to and line to use. A bit like how the overground now has names for each set of routes. But the other things like ticketing/pricing and different first class rules that confuse the passenger aren't that good.

[@MinegateTransport]

A fantastic presentation! The reason why the lines in London and particularly south London are so extensive is due to the historic rivalries between the companies that built them during the Victorian area, a fascinating story

[@RMTransit]

And not entirely unique to London!

[@MinegateTransport]

@@RMTransit indeed, across the entire UK and I’m guessing the entire world

[@laurencefraser]

@@MinegateTransport Well, not so much the Entire world, but it does pop up in a few different places.

[@richard-riku]

The subway lines in downtown Brooklyn are similar - a huge tangle of overlapping lines thanks to three different companies building lines in competition with each other.

[@IndustrialParrot2816]

This was also Common all over the US however often there would be Huge Coalitions of Railroads working together against other coalitions or sometimes one big railroad, for example to Baltimore & Ohio, Philadelphia & Reading, and Central of New Jersey competed against the Titan of the Pennsylvania Railroad, and the Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, and Chicago & Northwestern competed against the Chicago Burlington & Quincy, Denver & Rio Grande Western, and Western Pacific, these two groups were known as the Harriman and Zephyr Companies respectively the way this all worked is that one railroad would hand off a Train to another Railroad

[@Fan652w]

This is an extremely comprehensive video, except that it fails to mention the big weakness of the extremely extensive London Suburban System. The VERY HIGH FARES charged to passengers travelling to/from central London from places outside Greater London. (Greater London extends out only about 20 kms from the central area.) For example, an annual season ticket Woking to central London (40m kms.) costs £4070! Compare that to, for example, the 3990 Franks (about £3800) which Swiss residents pay for an annual 'General Abonnement' giving then unlimited travel on all Swiss public transport except purely tourist mountain lines.

[@grassytramtracks]

Even within london, it can be considerably more than a tube journey in the same zones

[@RMTransit]

Can always count on you to pick up the rest of the pieces though!

[@UnePintade]

Very fitting price for Switzerland since that's about 4 times the price as the Paris region one while being 4 times the size

[@Fan652w]

@@UnePintade Thanks for an absolutely brilliant point!

[@pangolin83]

@@grassytramtracks Tube and National Rail fares are the same in TfL zoned areas.

[@DanChan-qb2ec]

I always find UK rail system fascinating, no matter it's the trains, the railway lines or its rich history

[@RMTransit]

Its awesome!

[@ultravi0lenceluvr]

But also a big fat scam

[@Dan-pd9ys]

My brain literally hurts. London is wild. It’s actually so remarkable this all just kind of works.

[@sidbrun_]

It's even more crazy when you're actually there and see just how much old and new there is, and how many different things are going on, how many different cultures exist etc. Whatever you want, you can find it in London.

[@Nova-gk1wl]

Great video! Just a couple of minor corrections: 1) London Overground and the Elizabeth line are both National Rail services, even though they are part of the TfL network. They accept normal National Rail tickets, for example, which isn't the case for the Underground or DLR (with some exceptions). So they are part of both the TfL and National Rail networks. 2) All of the SWR suburban network is 750V DC electrified. At 4:20 you've highlighted some seemingly random sections from the beginning of the Hounslow Loop to Windsor & Eton, plus Twickenham(?) to Shepperton and Kingston(?) as if they were 25kV AC - but they're all 750V DC. 3) At 4:35 you refer to Thameslink trains changing voltages, implying these are the only ones - but London Overground and Southern trains that run via Acton Central or Shepherds Bush also switch between DC 3rd rail and AC OHLE at (or near) those stations.

[@RMTransit]

For 2) we did this because it breaks the “third rail south of the Thames” rule!

[@joelcolyer2240]

It's still wrong. There is no 25kV AC on the SWR network, even north of the Thames

[@dragonboy9506]

@@joelcolyer2240 what he is meaning is that third rail is typical south of the thames, but those parts of the network are technically north of the thames.

[@annabelholland]

And how about Southeastern, where the trains switch from 25KV AC (overhead) to 750V DC (third rail) when switching from HS1 to conventional railways?

[@RMTransit]

@@annabelholland I mentioned that in the video!

[@bigzclipz5104]

Would you be able to do a video on Dominican Republic metro system , buses,and cable carts in its main city Santo Domingo. Or any suggestions on how they could expand and fix it

[@RMTransit]

I have considered making one, but I am not sure what the story will be

[@mdhazeldine]

I thought this video would never come!! Valiant effort Reece. Can I just say: Kudos for drawing out all those maps. Must've taken you a whole week! Not for the feint hearted.

[@matthewjohnbornholt648]

You did it, you bloody madman. Thank you!

[@PieterMulder]

5:24 King's Cross and St Pancras are two distinctly different stations (they are both connected to the Kings Cross St Pancras underground station which gets its name from the two above ground).

[@Marli-o4g]

Ah, i was just going to make the same point. Thanks.

[@katrinabryce]

They are actually 5 distinct stations: Kings Cross (National Rail) St Pancras International (Eurostar) St Pancras (National Rail) St Pancras (Thameslink) Kings Cross St Pancras (Underground)

[@chrisinnes2128]

There used to be two more kings cross thameslink and kings cross york road

[@Jothamvw]

@@katrinabryce I'd argue even the tube station has parts in St Pancras (Eurostar/National Rail) and parts in Kings Cross.

[@RMTransit]

Yes, but they are next door and function much like an integrated complex with a single share Tube station, there is a comma in the script!

[@paulmiller591]

Great video Reece. You forget just how complex London's rail network is and I use to live there in the South, East and then North-East. Well done you managed a complex explainer in less than 20 mins!

[@RMTransit]

Thank you! I wish I could say I'd lived there!

[@jackmartinleith]

Astonishing, Reece - even more so given that you don't live in the UK. Congrats and thanks.

[@stevelknievel4183]

Observations: Kings Cross St Pancras isn't a suburban terminal station. Rather its the name of the tube station that's shared by Kings Cross and St Pancras (which are suburban terminal stations). The Class 717s that run into Moorgate aren't the same kind of train as the class 700s that run through the Thameslink core although they do have the same manufacturer. Staines has an 'e' in it, I had to kook up Kingswood station as I couldn't pinpoint where it was. It turns out its on the Epsom Downs branch. No trains go from Victoria to the West London Line in revenue earning service. Neither do any trains go from Waterloo to either Brixton or the West London Line.

[@AnubhabKundu]

Yes Class 700 and 717 are Siemens Desiro City trains. One is designed to operate on Suburban only route. The other is modified for underground running as well. Plus the Class 700 is powered by overhead lines but Class 717 is a DC third rail powered train. Class 700s come in 8 car 700/0 sub variant and 12 car 700/1 sub variant and a total of 116 Class 700s are operated by Govia Thameslink. Class 717s are 6 coach kinda like London Underground trains that run upto Moorgate. Both trains have AC standard class seating and coaches have 4 doors, 2 at 1/3 length of coach and the others at 2/3 length of coach.

[@farigirafgaming5417]

Kingswood is actually on the Tattenham Corner branch, with services to/from London Bridge

[@HesterClapp]

Mitcham isn't spelled Mitchem

[@eddiewillers1]

And it's "Finsbury Park", rather than 'Finchley Park".

[@mrvwbug4423]

@@AnubhabKundu The 700 is a dual mode train that runs on both 750VDC 3rd rail and 25kv AC OHLE, they do the power changeover at the City Thameslink station (it sits between Blackfriars and St Pancras/Kings Cross), north running trains are on the wire, south running trains are on 3rd rail. You can always tell which mode a 700 is on without looking, they make the "Desiro warble" only when running on 3rd rail. The 700 is also significantly faster when running on the wire.

[@hammerth1421]

I think the idea of running services to many termini instead of one or multiple through-running central stations is very interesting. I know, the termini are more of an historical artifact than an active choice and some services are through-running via tunnels now, but still, that's pretty unusual.

[@mdhazeldine]

Can you imagine how huge a single central station would need to be? Waterloo alone has 25 platforms. Turns out there actually was a plan at one point to do this, but it never happened (probably a good thing really).

[@mrvwbug4423]

The London termini were mostly built in the 1830s and were designed to serve trains going in a certain direction. Kings Cross - East Coast Mainline towards Leeds, York, Edinburgh; St Pancras - Midland Mainline towards Sheffield and Derby (and now HS1); Euston - West Coast Mainline towards Birmingham, Manchester, Crewe, Preston, Liverpool and Glasgow; Paddington - Great Western Mainline towards Bristol, Penzance and Cardiff; etc.

[@davidbrook7623]

Paris has a similar sort of arrangement

[@richard-riku]

@@mdhazeldine There are only 25 platforms at waterloo because the trains have to stop and turn around. The S Bahn trunk line in Munich is handling 30 trains per hour on a single track but that's because the line runs right under the city centre from east to west.

[@mdhazeldine]

@@richard-riku Well that maybe true, but London has something around 150 terminating platforms at it's main stations, so even if you made them ALL through platforms and combined them into 1 station, you'd still need probably around 40-50 platforms, and the amount of traffic that would generate, all concentrated in one place would be insane. It would completely overwhelm the London Underground and some people would have to take longer journeys to get to their destination, so you'd then need shoulder stations to help distribute the load. So.....while it would be better to have more through platforms, I still think it would be unworkable to have just one huge station.

[@The_Georgi0]

Great video, impressive how much detail you are able to include despite you not living in london. A small correction: at 4:19 , only HS1 is electrified with catenary 25KV 50Hz and not the small handfull of southwestern lines to the west.

[@RMTransit]

This was noting that HS1 is unique because it’s south of the Thames and uses Catenary, and SWR uses third rail north of Thames

[@The_Georgi0]

@@RMTransit Oh yea good point. My bad

[@kathrynstemler6331]

Paddington is certainly in central London - ‘central London’ is just huge.

[@mrvwbug4423]

Yup, you're a sub 10 minute tube ride from Paddington to the Houses of Parliament.

[@Thnsrd42]

Agree with you on Paddington. Central London is big but not as big as central Paris, which less train terminals.

[@samkotlin8938]

@@Thnsrd42 What are you taking about? Central London is much bigger than Central Paris by any criteria you which to mention! Have you seen the amount of Rail terminals they have in Paris? They might not be as many as London, but there are a lot.

[@Thnsrd42]

@samkotlin8938 No, alas it is not. The Zone 1 area in Paris is 7 miles across and about 5 miles North to South. London's Zone 1 is only 6 miles across and about 3-4 miles North to South. However, Greater London is currently bigger than Greater Paris. I've been to Paris quite a few times over the years and travelled within and outside of their zone 1 and 2 area. The only stations I have not travelled from are Gare's St Lazare and Bercy.

[@Clery75019]

Considering urban density, Central Paris is definitely larger than Central London, that's impossible to argue otherwise. As for the number of terminal stations, it has actually been reduced with the RER opening new through services instead. Bastille station closed down being replaced by RER A. Orsay, Invalides and Luxembourg became undergound through stations and are no longer terminals.

[@JT29501]

Very nice video! A bit of a shame you forgot Windsor, which is an interesting point on the network due to it being connected to SWR and GWR via two different termini. There were talks about building a section of rail under the town to create a new loop, but I think the funding wasn't there.

[@Gfynbcyiokbg8710]

6:46 Both Stockholm's Arlanda Express and Olso's Flytog do over 200 km/h, though it does appear to be the 3rd fastest airport express

[@RMTransit]

Yes, the northern Euro airport expresses are rather unique in having such high speeds (there are a few others yes)

[@mdhazeldine]

Let's not forget the Shanghai maglev (although someone will probably chime in saying "tHat's nOt a TrAIn!" lol

[@laurencefraser]

​@@mdhazeldine it's as much a train as any other multiple unit. There might be room to argue that it's not a Railway, if one is being particullarly picky about the definition of Rail, but if your definition of train excludes the vehicle pictured on the wikipedia page, well, you're also excluding most/all multiple units, which becomes a problem. (mind you, a definition of 'train' that doesn't include railcars or individual locomotives that aren't pulling anything is entirely in line with every other use of the word 'train', which pretty consistantly refers to things that 'follow along behind' (camel train, artillery train, subordinates being 'in train', wagon train, road train, the train on particularly fancy dresses, etc.)

[@mrvwbug4423]

Heathrow Express only runs in a tunnel on the Heathrow spur, once it gets onto the GWML it's on above ground mainline track. It's value for money is debatable but having used it personally, you do get to Paddington in half the time vs the Liz Line and the HE trains have a lot more luggage rack space. You can close the value gap a bit by booking an HE ticket well in advance and paying for a round trip (you can use your return ticket anytime within 30 days). HE is also nice in that you pull right into the main Paddington train hall like the GWR trains, so you get that extra experience as well. Paddington is also my favorite London station.

[@Gfynbcyiokbg8710]

@@mdhazeldine It's more about it not really being an airport express train.

[@CoolTransport]

Great video, no idea how you explained all that in under 20 minutes!

[@RMTransit]

Thanks for your help :)

[@fringestalin6263]

Very impressive video with extensive research and no mistakes to be found on my end! What's particularly interesting is that most of the operators named here will likely fall under the unified branding of Great British Railways in the near future which may either simplify or further complicate things depending on how you look at it.

[@mikacasalis4012]

Smashed it. London is so complex with its inner and outer rail system. 👌🏼

[@vongodric]

Awesome video. While Tokyo edges just ahead of London (in my opinion), the two are the greatest urban rail systems in the world without equal.

[@darkwolfcz434]

small correction at 8:30. Services from Cambridge and Peterborough go through St Pancras. However if the services are terminating, which most often are the norther services than they will go tho Kings Cross.

[@robertbutlin3708]

Correction of a correction. St Pancras. Pancreas is an organ producing insulin.

[@darkwolfcz434]

@robertbutlin3708 I for whatever reason always thought its Pancreas! My view of the world is forever changed

[@mrvwbug4423]

Yup depends on the TOC, EMR and Great Northern both serve Peterborough, but EMR runs out of St Pancras and GN runs out of Kings Cross, both still use the ECML to get there. Thameslink crosses under KC/St Pancras and has its own merger track onto the ECML just north of Gasworks tunnel coming out of KC as it also uses the ECML to get to Peterborough and Bedford. The main differences are speed and stopping patterns, TL and GN mostly run stopping services and run on the slow line at 90mph max, EMR usually runs express and run on the fast line at up to 125mph.

[@Roland-pw5xj]

Travelling between St Pancras International and Stratford International on HS1 is an extraordinary way to get across London. It only takes seven minutes, is mostly in a tunnel, and being quiet and smooth, it's almost like being teleported.

[@wozzablog]

Part of the reason south London's layout is a complete jumble is the earliest years of developement and competing companies trying to out manoeuvre wach other. Geoff has a video about the two Catford staions that are ridiculously close but don't connect.

[@marktownend8065]

The former Southern Railway chose the 3rd rail electrification standard for their network south of the Thames in the 1920s after the 'grouping', a government scheme to merge the many private operators into four big regional networks to tackle the worn-out condition of and lack of investment in the railways after WW1. Southern's constituent companies had already commissioned different electrification systems for their early implementations. On their shorter distance suburban runs out of London Victoria, the LB&SCR had used a ~6kVAC overhead system developed by a German supplier using a low frequency of 25Hz, while LSWR (Waterloo lines) had chosen the top-contact 3rd rail ~650VDC system already. Southern probably chose the LSWR solution because they had already completed more mileage than the LB&SCR by the time of the grouping, and 3rd rail was definitely seen as a cheaper way to continue the rollout, usually not requiring any structure modifications. There may also have been some anti-German sentiment in this post-WW1 period which wouldn't have favoured buying more German equipment. The overhead system was dismantled over the next decade or so and replaced by 3rd rail.

[@mrvwbug4423]

And North London mostly went OHLE because it was electrified at a much later date, north London was diesel territory until very recently. Even the Gospel Oak to Barking Overground line was running DMUs until a few years ago, line electrification was done when Barking Riverside was built.

[@marktownend8065]

@@mrvwbug4423 Electrification was completed in 2018, before the Barking Riverside extension opened in 2022. Wiring was more challenging than anticipated and the project ran late and over budget I recall. Marylebone is London's last fully diesel terminus. Chiltern Railways has started procurement for a new fleet and want some innovative solutions to enable the urban section into the city at least to be low emissions. There's no commitment to wiring so a bi-mode solution possibly incoproating batteries for the run into the terminus. On the Aylesbury line the route is parallel to the LU Metropolitan line and for a large part of that the Chiltern Railways diesel trains actually run over LU tracks, electrified using LUs 4 rail supply. New battery EMU trains could pick up power for propulsion and charging while on the move over such tracks. Of the 61km, 24km is already electrified. The routes to Oxford and Birmingham are completely unwired today.

[@DavidShepheard]

You mentioned the connections to the West London Line from Victoria and Waterloo, but you won't find any passenger trains using those connections. The West London Line was seen as a bit of a white elephant when it was built and we are lucky not to have lost it. This railway line is incredibly useful, as it does the exact same thing that the Thamelink core does, but right now, there are only two operators using the line: * London Overground is one of the lines using it and they run four trains per hour from Clapham Junction to Stratford and * The other operator is Southern with their once-per-hour East Croydon to Watford Junction service. The Southern service is really throttled back north of Shepheard's Bush as it has to cross mainline tracks out of Euston. The train is mostly semi-fast, but there are places where the train always stops and sits there for ages. Hopefully, after HS2 opens, something can be done to get a crossover put in and more slots per hour reserved for Southern. The Southern service also suffers south of Clapham Junction, where it goes onto the commuter line, instead of being semi-fast and runs much slower than it's northern half. So it is a bit of a dysfunctional railway line. The railway route should really be handed over to the Mayor of London and reworked to make it much more like an RER service.

[@simonlewis-un4mv]

Note the great Northern trains differ slightly from Thameslink because the front has a emergency exit due to narrow tunnels into Morgate

[@RMTransit]

I mentioned in the video with Geoff!

[@Britboy404]

Seeing all the footage of queens town road was such a throwback for me. As a train obsessed kid I used to go there from Waterloo on the way to school. This video is fantastic but the networks are countless times more complicated, quirks like the teddington loop on SWR still confuse me sometimes while about half of south western got cut off with the second branch through Putney before the junction at barnes that either forms the Hounslow loop or rejoins the line again at strawberry hill. These trains can also head to weybridge and reading. That’s just one corner I don’t expect to be included to describe the insane complexity

[@Discount-Stonks]

13:53 that East Croydon - Watford Junction service used to be much longer, it’s been extended and shortened many times over the decades. I think it went something like this: - Gatwick Airport - Rugby - Brighton - Rugby - Brighton - Milton Keynes Central - Three Bridges - Milton Keynes Central (?) - East Croydon - Milton Keynes Central - East Croydon - Watford Junction (current) Sometimes the trains might only run as far as Clapham Junction at the southern end.

[@samkotlin8938]

It surprises me that such a useful service on the West London line has been curtailed, there is pent up demand for a cross London service the heading towards the West Midland’s from southern England. With clever timetabling they could re introduce a Rugby to Gatwick service again.

[@eattherich9215]

@3:36, we never had that style of double decker train in the UK BUT from 1949 until 1971, two sets of class 4DD trains had a staggered upper deck that was designed to accommodate more passengers. Ultimately, they did not prove to be the solution to carrying more commuters and were withdrawn.

[@Bruce-h8w]

I travelled on it a few times; my father commuted on it regularly

[@johnpowell5433]

Two of the Double Decker carriages are preserved and undergoing restoration.

[@qckreplacementvideos7561]

14:01 Limited service has a specific definition here. Southeastern services are not limited to Victoria, it's just not their primary terminus like it is for Southern. The services are frequent.

[@wozzablog]

One of my favourite journeys is a Southern service that runs on a loop to victoria through inner south london. Demark Hill etc from London Bridge. Great way of wasting time, but oddly satisfying.

[@ET76001]

what ?

[@wozzablog]

There's a train from London Bridge to Victoria roundabout the south London loop. I take it occasionally rather than use the tube.

[@ballyhigh11]

@@wozzablog What train should I look for to make that journey (starting from Victoria)? Thanks.

[@lordgemini2376]

@@ballyhigh11 Look for the southern train ending at London Bridge if you're getting on at Victoria :)

[@davechristopheringram6452]

Used to live nr w.norwood still and Used it's main commuter route..headcase 94 aand 49 . In 1970 cost £1.00 p/wk. Really.

[@neojng]

lived most my life in south london and used the trains daily, amazing how little I knew. Great vid.

[@mantegashargel]

Finally! As a londoner myself I find Network Rail often gets overlooked by TFL. I know they don’t run it however, integration with the tube, ovg and dlr are often an afterthought. voice announcements often don’t acknowledge operator or destination e.g.: both Vauxhall and Tottenham Hale get the exact same announcement although they take u to opposite ends of london and southern England. And regularity of service in most cases is not very reliable. This would be cool if NR was performing an express-service only kind of service and suburban rail was all run by TFL, however when most of southern LDN relies on RN as a main commuter mode…

[@ericprice3225]

Brilliant video. I live about 30 miles south east of London and travel on South Eastern services almost daily. Despite being a bit of a railway nerd I often fail to appreciate how complicated it all is with all the interconnects and who actually primarily serves which terminus (I’m looking at you Victoria).

[@henreereeman8529]

Incredible video!! Very impressive how so much can be packed into just 20 minutes!

[@polakjan]

Learning about all these system is super interesting. Would love to hear your thoughts on the Prague metro/tram/bus/rail integrated system at some point.

[@JohnResalb]

Normally, the way we Londoners handle the geographical area (that perplexes you) is - we use the Greater London Boundary within which fares are controlled by TFL. You can get a day/ weekly/monthly ticket that covers absolutely every form of transport known to mankind, within this area. Once you cross over the border, you're on your own to enter arrangements with the operator of the line you wish to travel. You CAN however use your TFL pass up to the London boundary, and pay any excess thereafter. So we Londoners have a clearly defined area of National Rail, especially south of the Thames where National Rail is the mainstay of most passenger journeys by far.!! There is only a case for your confusion once you cross the boundary. There are tickets which cover the entire country, like Interrail (for Europeans) and Britrail for American/overseas (which must be purchased before they come over).

[@stuarttupp3541]

When travelling in South London and beyond, the most important things to know are the stations where multiple services meet. Get very familiar with Clapham Junction, Waterloo East, London Bridge etc.

[@megapangolin1093]

Excellent video, you make it all sound so simple. I have lived in the South of England for over half a century and I didnt know a tenth of this information, even though I travel to London quite frequently. Added complexity, the SouthWestTrains and SouthWesternRailway liveries shown are owned by SWR and run on the same lines, which must help visitors immensely.

[@nathanw9770]

Great video, amazing you managed to squeeze all of this into 20 mins. I have some local South Eastern knowledge that i would like to use point out some more things from the video: Services from Charing Cross to Sevenoaks and Hayes only stop at Lewisham during peak hours and weekends, otherwise they go non-stop to either Hither Green/Grove Park on the SEML or Ladywell on the Hayes line. The SEML seems to be coloured in Thameslink pink on the map when in reality no Thameslink trains operate on that line past London Bridge. Southeastern services starting at Victoria also go to Orpington via Bromley South on a half hourly basis. Victoria also sees many services running to Gillingham and other Kent areas. The Thameslink service from Luton to Rainham is probably the longest suburban service in London, maybe even the uk, lasting over 2.5hrs with 35+ stops. The recent opening of Brent Cross West station has lengthened the journey time by a little. People have been complaining about the particular section between Gravesend and London Bridge since the the route it replaced was a lot faster.

[@wilcochris]

For the avoidance of doubt and purpose of clarity: Kings Cross St Pancras is only named so on the Underground. For national rail services, they are 2 different and separate stations Cambridge and Peterborough are also served from St Pancras. Thameslink primarily serves them from St Pancras. It's usually early morning or late evening when they are served from King's Cross. Peterborough is primarily served by LNER from King's Cross.

[@mrvwbug4423]

TL has their own station for KC/SP and they merge onto the ECML just north of gasworks tunnel.

[@jack2453]

The separation between KX and StP is purely in the eye of the beholder. It is a complex of 8 stations tagged variously as KX (Anglia and East Coast mainline), StP (Thameslink, Kent high speed, East Midlands), StP International (Eurostar) and KXStP (LU Tube and Subsurface) but basically one place.

[@philwoodward5069]

Woolwich to Abbey Wood on the Elizabeth Line is another exception to the rule that everything south of the Thames is third rail. Cross-river Thameslink and London Overground routes have to switch from third rail to overhead wire - there are sections north of the Thames where they run on third rail power.

[@katrinabryce]

The Elizabeth Line and GWR also go south of the Thames at Maidenhead. At Reading (South of the Thames), Platforms 1-3 and 5-15 are overhead power and platforms 4-6 are 3rd rail power. Elizabeth LIne usually uses platforms 13 & 14, sometimes 12 & 15.

[@RMTransit]

Very true!

[@Muzakman37]

@@katrinabryce There are 15 platforms at Reading?! Flippin 'eck!

[@katrinabryce]

@@Muzakman37 It is the busiest station in the UK outside London by number of departures. Birmingham New Street is a close second.

[@davidbull7210]

4:18 I have to correct you here. As a commuter who uses South Western Railway in the Hounslow/Twickenham area, I can assure you that this is all third rail too. The whole SWR network uses this with the exception of a small bit of diesel operation at the other end of the network.

[@mattevans4377]

Luckily for passengers, they can at least use an oyster card as long as they are within the London zone system, making ticketing easier within London

[@whophd]

1:15 I love that London Bridge concourse! And I think Sydney's new Central Walk (at Central Station) was inspired by it, but also Star Trek Enterprise (2020s version).

[@AzureOtsu]

4:33 You forgot the watford DC and east london lines which still uses a third rail up to Watford Junction and Highbury and islington respectively. Also even though its been removed now but parts of the north london line were electrified with third rail prior to their handover to london overground.

[@SH-lv7pd]

LONDON’S complex train system (transportation system overall) is exceptional, extremely efficient and second to none and not comparable to anything in North America. The grand railway stations are amazing and serve their purpose to this very day. Also look at the extraordinary London Bridge and Blackfriars stations both amazing pieces of modern engineering.

[@ricequackers]

There's a few exceptions to the "DC third rail south of the river rule" - the first is HS1 as you mentioned, the East London and North/West London lines are third rail right up until Highbury and Willesden Junction respectively, and the Watford DC line as the name suggests is third rail from Euston all the way to Watford, running parallel to but not interacting with the AC West Coast Main Line. The final exception is Merseyrail, but that's very far from London! Also the strange Southern service from East Croydon to Watford Junction until recently used to run all the way up to Milton Keynes. It was very weird seeing a "Southern" train parked at a platform all the way up in Buckinghamshire! It's a pity that it's been cut back as it provided a handy way to bypass central London without changing trains. Finally, what makes the London suburban network especially confusing is that it's not always clear where you can use the Oyster card, where you can use contactless payments (my station Harpenden for example supports contactless but not Oyster) and where you need to buy a paper ticket or e-ticket. Worse, it's not even clear what the cheapest option usually is - for me contactless is better value on weekdays, but at weekends the operator offers super cheap paper tickets that are much cheaper than using contactless. It's all very complicated and means you have to sit at a laptop and research the different options before making your journey.

[@mrvwbug4423]

That was my experience with Uk rail in a nutshell, you need to do a lot of research on fares to avoid getting shafted.

[@annabelholland]

It is also confusing regarding the various operators (what is known as train operating company). For example, many people (even me) thought that Thameslink is an operator, but is actually the name of the line, run by Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR). GTR also runs the Great Northern, Gatwick Express and Southern lines, which seems like a mini version of Transport for London. Basically, we do have the overground network not only ran by TfL but also the various operators of Network Rail so it seems like some of South Western Railway's trains should be transferred to TfL as the overground.

[@eattherich9215]

I tend not to get distracted by operators and franchise owners. These are not factors as I make my way from south east London to the Surrey hinterlands.

[@f.g.9466]

The franchise system of TOCs is abhorrent. Ideally it should all go back to a Network Southeast division of British Rail and run with a unified branding and more integrated fares and travel cards. Even if the DfT wants to have concessions for the operations of different sections, just like TfL does, that would be more efficient and less confusing, and better service for the passenger. TfL manages the Overground but it doesn't actually do the operations, everything in TfL is a concession. The Underground is a concession to LUL, an operator owned by TfL itself, but everything else like the Overground, Elizabeth, DLR and buses are concessions to private operators. The proposal for Crossrail2 is to actually take some of Southwestern's suburban lines and make them crossrail branches with a new tunnel from Wimbledon via Clapham Junction into Tottenham Hale where it would take over service currently on Greater Anglia. One of the challenges of giving these services to TfL, just like with the Elizabeth line, is that these branches terminate outside of the London boroughs and that implies agreements with funding. I think crossrail services could be jointly managed by TfL and the Network Southeast mentioned above, it would solve a lot of issues.

[@annabelholland]

@@f.g.9466 I always thought that TfL run the buses, trains (Overground but not Elizabeth line as that is ran by the MTR, which is what the name for the Hong Kong metro) and the Underground themselves. Maybe even TfL Rail (pre Crossrail) was run by the MTR. Regarding the franchising system, maybe that is why our ticket is so expensive, although the cost from Cambridge to Norwich (using Greater Anglia, East Midlands Railway or CrossCountry) is £24 return for a total distance of 220 km/140 miles (110 km one way), which is a price of 11p per km/16p per mile. A single ticket is often only a pound cheaper than a return meaning the same journey one way costs £23. [edited to add imperial units]

[@f.g.9466]

@@annabelholland It's a tendering system, the operators bid for routes and then provide the buses, drivers and other staff. TfL does all the planning, control and management, including specifying service levels. Next time you see a London bus look out for the operator logo: Go-Ahead/Metrobus, Arriva, Metroline, Staggecoach, First London, even RATP (Paris transport), etc, etc, there's at least ten of them. With rail services TfL provides the rolling stock. The Overground is currently operated by Arriva but MTR was the previous operator. DLR is operated by Keolis (mostly owned by SNCF, also operates Manchester Metrolink) and Tramlink is operated by First. The Underground is operated by L.U.L. which is a subsidiary of TfL and that one is not subjected to tendering. And yes, MTR has been operating TfL Rail/Elizabeth line since the beginning (2015), the contract expires next year, hence the recent news of TfL inviting bids for the new contract. I guess there are a lot of factors contributing to the high prices of tickets in Britain. In the end it all boils down to lack of funding from the government that lets private ventures extract money from public transport. From the franchises to the archaic ticketing system, to Rolling Stock Companies (ROSCOs) which are the worst feature of our railways. All of the rolling stock is owned by ROSCOs (private companies/banks) so the operators or agencies are forced to lease from them. That's not a bad price at all! Where I'm typing now the services to London (66Km each way) start at 14p/Km, and to Brighton (24Km each way) are 19p/Km. The awkward ticketing system is made to reward return tickets though, that single ticket should be £12, something the government had promise to fix but didn't deliver.

[@randomguy477]

have been waiting for this video for a while

[@plumbeats4573]

I used to live in South Ldn recently and altho Underground gets all the hyped I far preferred taking the Suburban rail. Although frequency is worse the experience as a whole is miles better. Far better ventilation, less overcrowding, toilets & group seats. At the cost of service which is generally worse as its run by private companies

[@LOLE_Editz]

I love how my home station became the face of the video.

[@lutfiprayogi2]

Your animation is top notch!

[@martinusher1]

The "patchwork of train companies" is a relatively recent development. Although South London's network was started by separate rail companies the suburban network as it is today is the product of just one company, Southern, with the entire network branded as "Southern Electric". Service wasn't as colorful as it is today, everything being a uniform green, and service destinations were indicated by a two digit number on the front carriage next to the 'motorman' (driver). Overall, the service was substantially the same as it was 70+ years ago.

[@brandonnuttall5451]

South London here... I've got 4-6 tph into Victoria and 2-4 tph to London Bridge. This is in addition to being 15 minutes by bus to Brixton, and 15 minutes walk to Thameslink. Suburban rail doesn't get much press compared to the Tube, but these lines are truly what keep London stitched together.

[@gerrynewnham9932]

The Hertford Loop trains now all terminate at Stevenage which has a dedicated terminal platform for them and a dedicated route clear of the Kings Cross to Stevenage/Peterborough/Cambridge line.

[@jakezyx]

As a former South Londoner, I wish they would spend some money undoing this mess. People would rather see high frequency 6tph services running on just one non-deviating route, which could be easily achieved if lines were separated and big interchange stations built at crossover points such as Streatham Junction, Silwell, Battersea East etc. It's pretty ridiculous to have a 2tph service in Zone 3 stations. This would allow a tube-style regular lines with colours and names to be introduced, which would improve understandability and therefore usage. It would also make sense to let South Eastern absorb Southern & Thameslink; and transfer the London-only locals to TfL Overground as the Mayor wishes. But seemingly nothing logical ever gets done with British Railways.

[@RS-pb2se]

Although the multitude of brands and franchising looks confusing, most of them make geographical sense and most people in the UK could tell you what their local company is. Of course, there are complexities, like the Beckenham Junction example and the stations close to the city centre south of the river. I prefer the suburban trains over the underground. The seats and views from the viaducts are much nicer than what TFL provides.

[@thatbritishmallard]

Great Northern and Thameslink don't use the same model of train. They use the same family, Siemens' 'Desiro City' along with SWR and SE, but Thameslink uses 8-car 700/0s and 12-car 700/1s; and GN using 6-car Class 717s (as well as Class 387 Electrostars). Differences between the 700s and 717s include carriage length, front profile (the 717 having fold-down emergency stairs like onto the London Underground sets due to their Northern City Line routes), and train composition.

[@theormals]

You will have no idea for how long I have been waiting for this video

[@twjohnson91]

I find they've made it so great from the airports to the city. I go to Colchester often to visit, and flying into any London Airport and jumping on one of the trains; I can easily get there and back! The London Metro + system has always been one i've enjoyed

[@Spermwhales93]

I live in Croydon, and I use much of this system whenever I use public transport to go into or across London. This really highlights how crazy the system can be. It works, though!

[@katrinabryce]

The Class 387s used on the Heathrow Express are also used by Great Western (painted a different colour and with a different internal layout) on some services to Cardiff which is definitely not a regional service saying as it is the capital city of a different country. They also get used on local services between London and Didcot (semi-fast to Reading, then all stops to Didcot), and local services between Reading and Newbury). Is there anywhere else in the world where the same model of train gets used on local, regional, and intercity services?

[@f.g.9466]

Probably there are numerous examples. CP Class 2240 in Portugal are used on one of Greater Lisbon's suburban lines and in Regional and Inter-Regional services across the country, those Inter-Regional services would be called Intercity in the UK. Stadler FLIRTs get used for a variety of services around the World too, just not sure if within the same country. And we could be picky and go into the service patterns of Dutch Intercity trains.

[@transitcaptain]

Even something like the London Rail and Tube Services map looks so confusing so a first timer. You could look at it and be like do I use a rail line? The Overground? The Elizabeth Line? The tube? Is service gonna be frequent? Do I use Oyster or Contactless? Are fares coordinated across ALL COMPANIES?

[@CavesAreIrrelevant]

I think it's why most of us just use google maps or city mapper. It just suggests a fairly decent route. Most of us also use contactless as habit. Fares are not co-ordinated (off the TFL network) and though expensive; feel like suburban prices. You just sort of get used to it and zip about the city.

[@CoffeeOnRails]

The Third Rail/Overhead divide comes from the unification under the Southern Railway banner during the amalgamation in 1923. The LBSC had an overhead electric service at 6500VDC. However, this was small in scale as compared to the Third Rail network. When amalgamation occurred, the much more widespread LSWR third rail system was used due to it's much more widespread use. :) Also, Southern's "Metro" services have dropped from a formerly around 15 min service to half hourly after the DfT forced Southern to give up their 455's without replacement. Damn DFT! - A South London Rail Historian Also HEX is a waste of paths! Give the HEX paths to GWR IC out of Paddington, and the HEX tunnel paths all to XR. Would be so much better!

[@samkotlin8938]

Everyone with sense knows this, let hope in 2029 the whole lot goes over to Crossrail.

[@thelondoner614]

Fantastic video! Btw it's 'Staines' not 'Stains' 🙂

[@TheOracle65]

The locals now call it St. Aines upon Thames….

[@simplesimon2802]

one unique aspect of London's suburban railways is where (for historic reasons dating back over 100 years) Underground and National Rail trains operate shared services - with all the trains travelling on the same tracks. eg: Bakerloo line and Watford DC; District line and North London line on the Richmond service plus Metropolitan line and Chiltern Railways.

[@skoodledoo]

As it's about suburban railway, I'm surprised you didn't mention the direct Southern Victoria to London Bridge service 😅

[@welcometowatford1483]

Great try at covering the London suburban network. It would be mean to be critical as I'm not sure that I could do any better and I've lived here for 40 years. Maybe a video on the various London termini might be worth trying as many people have a favourite and personally mine's Marylebone as it has a great backstory and a more human scale than many of the others

[@RaymondCalloway]

I have just recently found your series of wonderful video, very informative and I am learning a great dea, thank youl. Plus, I am discovering the differences in the pronunciation of catenary from the one I hear and have been used to on the other side of the Atlantic versus here in the States!

[@TheOracle65]

You can take a direct train from Gatwick airport to Reading (GWR service) where you can change onto trains to south west England, west to Wales, south to the coast and north to Birmingham and well beyond on CrossCountry services.

[@peeky44]

True, but I'm guessing Reece doesn't see that as a London suburban service - the North Downs line is very useful, but it runs more of a regional service, akin to a Swiss InterRegio. Gatwick-Reading trains certainly don't get people into Central London or from one part of Greater London to another - I think a service would have to do at least one of those to count as a London suburban/commuter train. The closest it gets is Redhill, Guildford and Wokingham - admittedly these stations are all served by London comnuter trains but that doesn't make every train that stops at them a London commuter train!

[@SG3086X]

13:20 correction: mitcham.

[@mildlydispleased3221]

"Staines" is spelt "Stains" which is honestly, a more accurate name.

[@jdillon8360]

That caught my eye as well, as I'm from Melbourne and we have a suburb called Mitcham here spelt with an A. I figured the same place in England should be spelt the same. (not always the case though)

[@petrfedor1851]

That's quite complicated, glad it's way easier here in Prague/Central Bohemia region

[@markstrainsplanes]

Good overview. You might have added the GWR shuttle from West Ealing to Greenford is London’s last diesel train running in London as Chiltern Railways services nearly always continue beyond London. Also Heathrow Express services are now operated by GWR rolling stock with GWR drivers for the airport. Not everyone agrees with your assessment of vfm!

[@peterd788]

Paddington is, arguably, the closest rail terminus to central London other than Marylebone and Charing Cross (which is the literal definition of the centre of London). Turn left on Praed Street. right on Edgeware Road and left on to Oxford Street and you are in central London in 10 minutes.

[@raythomas4812]

Phew...well done ! - I live in London and even I never knew it was that complicated

[@IsaT-rf7xj]

Fun fact there is a third cross city route that is a southern train from East Croydon to Watford. And a fourth crossrail, cross rail 2 is in the plannings right now.

[@yuhihui1089]

The multitude of lines/lack of unified branding makes it less accessible for people to switch/tourists imo - amazing system though, absolutely huge, the Tube is really just one part of the puzzle

[@CavesAreIrrelevant]

Yeah I agree, though most of us Londoners use Google Maps of City Mapper. It is well integrated into TFL and the Suburban Network. Lots of us just plug and play. App tells us what to get. I'm sure you do the same right?

[@mildlydispleased3221]

To be fair, all of the touristy areas are covered by the tube. Central London, The Southbank, Wembley and Olympic Park can all be visited on the Jublilee line alone. Nobody comes to the UK to visit Croydon.

[@eattherich9215]

😂😂😂 However, you can get to Croydon from Victoria, which is on both the tube and the rail networks.

[@hdruk1]

Basically what CavesAreIrrelevant said. I think Reece has made this seem more complicated than it really is by trying to focus on lines. In reality no one is really looking or thinking about the lines, they just give Google/ citymapper/ national rail their origin, destination and desired times and follow what it says. As long as there is a train going your way does it really matter if the next service for the same journey is a differing "line"?

[@peeky44]

​@@mildlydispleased3221I suspect Hampton Court Palace, Chessington World of Adventures and Thorpe Park would all like a word with you about that...

[@clivebroadhead4381]

A student friend didn't like his placement at Staines, so it was nicknamed "Stains on everything!"

[@Bruce-h8w]

It’s busy because: 1 it’s the meeting point for all trains ftom Waterloo and most from Victoria; 2 it serves three different directions away from London (originally 3 different companies). The indicatiors are clear, and there are signboards everywhere telling you which platform for which destination. Easy-peasy

[@jack2453]

Great video, but I think you missed a trick in not stressing the role of Clapham Junction as a coordinator for Southern and Southwestern networks (esp given your fondness for 'shoulder stations')

[@wasmic5z]

Re: the comparison to Tokyo - having spent time travelling on both, and more time reading about them and looking over them, there's no doubt that the South London network is way more complicated! The Tokyo network is more extensive, but the service patterns are much simpler and easier to figure out, even with the extensive through-running operations.

[@JayeOFarrell]

Impossible for you to catch every exception but you mentioned that only Diesels run into the Chiltern terminal, but SWR still runs Class 158/9s into Waterloo from Exeter as the line isn't electrified from Worting Junction to Exeter on the west of England line. Thought you might like to know 🙂

[@sihollett]

Greenford-West Ealing (or is the fast charging battery train running now?), London Bridge - Uckfield, and some of the services out of Euston (Chester/North Wales, the token Shrewsbury) are diesel in London too.

[@danielnikolopoulos]

As a Sydneysider, I envy the sheer size and inter connectivity of this rail network.

[@henrytudor8537]

Good job, but to avoid misleading your viewers you need to actually refer the Jago hazzard's video comparing the Heathrow express to the Elizabeth line has there he talks about the benefit of booking in advance and how the Heathrow express could actually be cheaper depending on the time that you've booked.

[@Roland-pw5xj]

Not the only line where it can be very, very, very much cheaper to book a long time in advance, as you'll know if you travel between Liverpool Street and Norwich at the weekends.

[@beaker2257]

I live in Essex and commute into London Liverpool Street Station. I’ve always found the jumble of lines south of the Thames rather confusing. After thins I still do!

[@StanleyV64]

Thank you for this very detailed and in depth video!

[@Steve_McMillen]

Honestly, this video proves that a simplification/unification of the entire system in and around London needs to be priorised. There's a lot of potential to unlock here.

[@msueag]

5:23 - Kings Cross and St Pancras are separate mainline railway stations that share a tube station. When talking about suburban & distance railway lines, they are separate entities.

[@vjaska]

It should be noted that Southern's Class 377's are also dual voltage mainly for the Watford to East Croydon service, great video regardless

[@K-o-R]

Only the 377/2, /5 and /7 variants though.

[@vjaska]

@@K-o-R true

[@jefffranklin4894]

8:05 surprised ypu mentioned Harlow as one of the key destinations (my home town). Better to put Hertford East, Stansted Airport, and Cambridge as the destinations for that line as those are the standard terminus from Liverpool Street for GA

[@martincurrie6243]

These really are classed as inner suburban lines. There are heavy commuter fliws too much further out.