The UK’s High-Speed Rail Successes & Misfires

[@ghamerons6287]

Gosh I wish we had a government that wasn’t allergic to long term plans

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

Better still, take such things out of politics altogether!

[@yellowgreen5229]

The long term plans are Dickensian Capitalism.

[@caramelldansen2204]

@@Inkyminkyzizwoz You cannot separate policy and politics. How about, instead, the workers (wo actually make things happen) are in charge?? Someone has to be.

[@chrismckellar9350]

What do you expect from a short term thinking, quick fix planning Tory government.

[@longiusaescius2537]

@chrismckellar9350 don't worry I'm sure Jeremy will be slightly less disappointment

[@caseysmith4206]

Excellent timing! - the Eurostar just suspended travel to London today because of flooding in a Thames tunnel.

[@jonistan9268]

I was looking for this comment. So passengers are stranded now with no alternative, right? Edit: Wait, why is it always "a Thames tunnel"? There's only one that the Eurostar passes through.

[@life.with.sabine]

@@jonistan9268there are multiple tunnels on the route to the channel tunnel.

[@joj.]

​@@jonistan9268The Eurostar passes through a couple of tunnels on the way out of London before it even gets close to the Channel Tunnel.

[@jack2453]

​@@joj.But only one is under the Thames

[@jonistan9268]

@@bfapple The Eurostar passes through a bunch of tunnels. One goes under the sea, one goes under the Thames, the others go under other stuff.

[@joelong7273]

Removing the Northern leg of HS2 is probably one of the stupidest desicions ever made in relation to railways in Britain (up there with beeching and privatisation) and even worse, it was made by a PM no one voted for

[@bocbinsgames6745]

And then they sell off all the acquired land in a scorched earth policy so that labour can't easily continue building it

[@grahamwhitworth9454]

We don't vote for PMs, only for MPs.

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

Yeah, because it totally would've been less stupid if he had been elected!

[@Inkyminkyzizwoz]

​@@grahamwhitworth9454 Yes, but the point is he became PM by taking over after his predecessor resigned, not by winning a General Election

[@joelong7273]

@@grahamwhitworth9454 yes technically but its silly to think that the majority of the public don't vote almost entirely based off who's in charge of the party

[@Jopal2222]

A couple of things on the trains on HS2 beyond Birmingham: - The government is selling off the property it compulsory purchased on the route beyond Birmingham for development making it incredibly hard to extend the line in the future - HS2 trains will continue beyond Birmingham to Manchester etc on conventional rail. Because these trains are designed to go on HS2 lines they are not built to deal with the curves that currently exist and will run at slower speeds than existing trains

[@sidesplitter9497]

I don't think they will run slower than existing trains on the current lines. The class 805/807s prove that you don't need the tilting tech of the 390s anymore to keep journey times down. Although max. speeds may well be lower, the average journey times will probably not be different due to the great acceleration that modern trains (such as the 805/807s) can offer

[@jeremybarker7577]

What is being sold can always be bought again - although it might cost more.

[@cm1701a]

Not if it’s significantly built on.

[@antonnurwald5700]

Oh boy.

[@caramelldansen2204]

​@@cm1701aFuck that, get the dynamite!

[@tompang5296]

Going to the UK for exchange reinvigorated my childhood interest in fast trains! Living in a car-centric town in Australia killed my interest, but seeing how well-connected the UK was…and seeing the countryside fly by at 200km/h on the GWR main line was simply something else…I’m now back on the train career path. It helped that during my stay in the UK, my bedroom was directly facing a train line, and I got to see an intercity train zip by every 10 minutes or so to small towns, which is simply unthinkable back home!

[@RMTransit]

We need more people who are passionate going into railways, passion drives results!

[@KnoobGroup]

Lots of room for exciting projects if the political will picks up, which I think it will. Trains will almost certainly be a huge infrastructure tool in the reduction of CO2 emissions by cars and trucks in Australia and around the world. We have already started to see this, lots of big train projects happening in every major Australian city, and if it picks up we might be actually able to cross a threshold of car ownership naturally declining. It can be disheartening to see the projected length some of these projects will take, but remember that China opened it's first high speed rail line less than 20 years ago, and now look!.. It can be done...

[@tompang5296]

@@KnoobGroup I currently live in Sydney and it's pretty exciting to see Sydney Metro making such rapid progress! It was a regional Aussie town that I grew up in, and just like in the US, there's a big divide in thinking between cities and...everywhere else. I think our last referendum was very...telling. In two days time I meet one of my childhood friends who grew up a classic rural-suburbanite kid. Hopefully we can talk about this stuff.

[@EILEENZ0122]

Truth! I love UK’s train very much❤ Train will be faster and has more scenery on the way🥹 and with discount the price will be affordable as well😂

[@acommenter]

A huge problem we had in the UK was the branding "HS2", a lot of people just saw it as paying a lot of money for a high speed service that would only benefit a few London commuters. It was more a keystone line for a large railway infrastructure upgrade all over the network.

[@Mophead64]

This. I live in the north east, it's a challenge to view it any other way when we had pacers running on the network, and then you see an overview of HS2 reducing service time by 15min and increasing the capacity. I agree pursing HS2 was probably the right thing, maybe not the most efficient project; but it's also difficult for sure when you look at it from the pov of investment in my region, or lack thereof :') Same goes for a lot of Northern English towns/cities I guess

[@cidiracing7481]

You have to start somewhere. The Shinkansen line was not at all popular at the beginning with how much it cost and increased popularity of aviation. So much that the people behind it had to resign before the first line was completed. Personally I would make HS2 it's own separate system from the standard rail lines to actually get proper high speeds, but that would be even more expensive. And instead of gaving grand plans start off with the shorter distances, get that finished and then expand further.

[@RMTransit]

Branding is important! Underrated!

[@TwoToTheSix]

And speaking of the Shinkansen, it literally means ‘new main line’ - taking the emphasis off speed and onto the capacity benefits, IMO

[@deaconswayne1894]

Exactly, HS2 was really all about capacity but Joe Public seem unaware by and large. The blame for this lies squarely with the Government DfT and HS2 Ltd - they did a terrible job of promoting HS2 and educating the public on its true benefits, which would have been enormous.

[@FlyingPhysicist]

The cancellation of HS2 at least as far as Crewe was criminally stupid. I work in the same building as HS2 Ltd and I'm not sure I've ever seen a workforce so demoralised by events outside of their control. The UK's incredibly bad attitude towards major infrastructure planning is going to be its downfall on the timescale of multiple decades. Even with traditional railway upgrade projects, there is constant pushback over cost/benefit. A few years ago Network Rail presented a plan to UK Govt to electrify the majority of the UK's remaining diesel-only lines (something like 60% of track miles) by 2050 in order to meet the UK's net zero target. The Treasury blocked it. I despair.

[@FlyingPhysicist]

@@Bungle-UK this has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of UK infrastructure planning. Please keep such tangential opinions to yourself.

[@FlyingPhysicist]

@@Bungle-UK please present your evidence supporting this statement.

[@gorgu08]

In Scotland we are getting on with electrifying the whole network, goes to show it is nothing more than the toxic Tories keeping the network in the dark ages, also fyi I hate the snp…

[@caramelldansen2204]

Capitalism moment.

[@frongus47]

​@@Bungle-UKIt's net zero but they gonna build more roads its net zero but they gonna put most of the thing in tunnels to avoid empty fields I'm sorry but not everything has to br perfect sure you lose a lot of green belt but you gain far more such as less trucks on the roads less cars on the road more local services better infectivity to the north.

[@isaacramsay7889]

I had to pause the video when you started talking about the current HS2 situation due to how angry it genuinely makes me. Probably not good that something like that which doesn't have a direct impact on my life makes me feel like that. But the UK government is just so, so stupid. Good video though

[@frongus47]

It has a impact on my life l live on the Stafford to Manchester section which is a brach of the west coast main line that later joins back at crew or at Stockport local northen,emr, and London North Western services struggle due to the busy line hs2 would have taken of the people who use the line for Manchester to London and lead to more local services but this has ruined that

[@RMTransit]

Channel that into change!

[@Wozza365]

HS2 wouldn't affect me either, but it annoys me a hell of a lot how it's just been torn up, especially by a PM no one voted for. And you just know that them and their mates are going to benefit greatly from it. If it had been cancelled with a proper plan to spread that money on improving reliability and upgrading the entire network then maybe I'd have not been so frustrated, but all they've done is release a few pathetic attempts, one of them around fixing potholes in London ffs.

[@a1white]

The class 800, for all their faults, are actually very suited to the UK as apart from their capable bimodal operation they also accelerate very quickly (even under diesel power) which is useful for some of the shorter distance between stations that we have on some of these routes. It helps keep the average speed up.

[@ricktownend9144]

... and apart from the seats!!

[@jeremybarker7577]

It's easy to replace seats - the only problem is that comfortable seats that comply with fire safety requirements are not cheap. Most trains in the UK have seats chosen for low cost over other considerations. That's probably OK if people are only making fairly short journeys but they are dreadful if you're on the train for several hours.

[@Trainman10715]

theyre not tho, theyre a bodged attempt to impliment japanese (intended for higher quality track) technology on to our generally lower quality track, and then they tried to design them for commuter and long distance services and made them rubbish at both in the process. bi-mode is nothing to shout about, we had bi-mode locos in the 1960s. they absolutly do not accelerate quickly under diesel power, their 0-100 time is longer than the HSTs they replaced and the voyagers totally whipe the floor with them, their electric acceleration also isnt anything to write home about above 50 mph, theyre designed to accelerate out of stations quickly so as to look impressive, after that then theyre comparible to any other modern EMU

[@mrvwbug4423]

They can't manage the average speeds of the class 390s on the WCML because they lack tilting technology. The acceleration difference is minimal between the two as the 390s are heavier but have substantially more power. The IETs are also universally knocked in reviews for their atrocious ride quality, while the 390s they're intended to replace on the WCML are known for their exceptionally smooth ride even on UK rails.

[@a1white]

@@mrvwbug4423 but 800’s aren’t replacing the Pendelinos? I was generally referring to the trains they have replaced such as HST’s

[@DS.J]

A small correction. Tohoku Shinkansen doesn't run at 225mph (~360km/h), but ~200mph (320km/h). Some trains on some lines in China as well as the new line in Indonesia have services that run at 350km/h (217mph).

[@СлаваУкраїні-м2о6в]

Yep. JR East wants to speed up the Tohoku Shinkansen to 360 km/h by the time that trains will be running through to Sapporo, around the year 2030 or so, but it's not certain yet.

[@DS.J]

@@СлаваУкраїні-м2о6в That's the thing with many HSR projects as well as various observers and commentators who keep mentioning crazy speeds even though they aren't the speeds that trains actually travel at. This is why I prefer a factual approach i.e. reporting on the speed that trains actually go at in revenue service. In Japan's case it's 320km/h. Also, trains in France go at 320km/h on some lines. 350km/h is only achieved on some lines in China and, since very recently, in Indonesia. I would expect this kind of data to be presented in the most accurate manner by a prominent transport KZbinr like RMTransit.

[@lsp6032]

​@DS.J The project to raise the operational speed on tohoku shinkansen to 360km/h is actually a serious plan so that it can get to sapporo within 4 hours to complete with planes, the test train is running at maximum 400km/h for 10% safety margins and actually tested the normal operation and systems required like 5g network, noise reduction and operational pattern planning, including aerodynamic reaction with opposing train at such speed which will be at 720km/h

[@DS.J]

@@lsp6032 I have no doubt that it's serious, but I still think it's fair to talk of it as a fact only when trains actually run at 360km/h. Another thing is that it won't really affect average speed all that much as the maximum speed of 360km/h (or current 320km/h) will only be achieved in some sections of the route and most certainly not around the main destinations where most of the slowdowns occur and where average speed is mostly "reduced", so to speak. In other words, such sped increase will have no effect for the competition with airlines as it already competes with them quite successfully and increasing speed to 360km/h won't affect it too much, but it will certainly increase the operating costs.

[@lsp6032]

@@DS.J The upgrade is serious about travel time reduction that the parts currently operating at a slower speed currently(275kmh in the southern section and 260kmh north of morioka, and Hokkaido shinkansen which was planned to operate only at 260kmh back in the 70s master plan) will all have their maximum speed raised go 320kmh via noise mitigation measures, so it wasn't just the short section that you claimed to be.

[@fringestalin6263]

Your personal dream to have a connection between HS1 and HS2 through London was actually one of the original ideas for HS2 but was scrapped because of a lacking business case. The UK is not in the Schengen zone so you'd need juxtaposed passport control to have cross-channel services. But the idea itself was not the tunnel you proposed between Old Oak Common and Stratford but actually between Primrose Hill and the first London tunnels just north of St. Pancras. It's only about a 10-minute walk and 5-minute tube connection but it would've been great for Birmingham and Manchester to Paris route ideas.

[@tomwatts703]

I would've thought that building new stations for HS2 would've allowed for passport controls to be accounted for much easier than having to squeeze them into an existing station.

[@fringestalin6263]

@@tomwatts703 I don't quite understand it fully myself but I get the impression it wouldn't be based on what I've read elsewhere. I'd love a Birmingham-Paris in 3 hours as much as the next guy though.

[@liquid_oxygen4409]

Typical bureaucracy as a result of Brexit, shameful, because it would be nice to have tourists from across the world enter the UK by train through various stations and NOT just Ashford and St Pancras, Manchester, the second biggest city in the UK I'm sure would appreciate a connection to the channel tunnel as well, but as always, the corruption of the British government meant that not a single piece of track of HS2 is going north of Birmingham.

[@estrheagen4160]

Even if you're not going to have through service, seems silly not to build HS2 to St Pancras and instead shove everyone onto the Tube and make every North-Paris journey two transfers instead of one. The worst parts of mesh grids combined with the worst parts of hub and spoke topologies.

[@Skibidilgbt1273]

i mean joining schengen is not a bad idea - many non eu countries have joined it

[@edmund-osborne]

Also hoping for the cancelled parts of HS2 to be revived after it opens. I think it'll just take the line being open and people actually seeing the benefits of HSR for it to happen. Back when the Edinburgh trams were being constructed, there was endless moaning about how disruptive it was, but all of that has gone away now that Edinburgh has a modern light rail system, now extended, that people regularly use.

[@edmund-osborne]

@@Bungle-UK My mistake! Seems most, not all, of the moaning has stopped!

[@lazrseagull54]

I hope they one day put tram services on the south Edinburgh loop line and establish through service to the new line via a subway tunnel with underground stops at Waverly, the old town, the uni and a couple more in Newington, as well as taking over the abandoned railway corridors around the city. That would be similar to what Edinburgh sized cities all over Europe have.

[@ballyhigh11]

@@edmund-osborne Look at MAT's posting history on here.

[@annabelholland]

It seems as though that because much of the scheme was scrapped, they ordered too many vehicles. They could do well with 20, but they have 27. Even with an 8tph service, they would be alright with 19. They were unsuccessful into giving some of their vehicles to TFL. In addition, Greater Anglia didn't order enough class 745s ( for use on the London to Norwich and Stansted) so we resort to using some of the class 755s (for use on local routes) and class 720s (for other routes). Time will tell if Cardiff to Swansea and Didcot to Oxford ever gets planned or going to be electrified

[@Dinoteddi]

The cancellation of HS2 beyond Handsacre on the western leg is ridiculous, as the West Coast Main Line will still suffer from capacity issues between Handsacre and Crewe, so HS2 going to Crewe at least would have been quite good at easing capacity on the WCML, as from Crewe, trains split off to other destinations. And its not like the Gov need to do anything major to get that bit started, they just need to start building, as its all ready to go Though i agree with your point on the extensiveness of our 125mph network, as its pretty good, even if its not as glamourous as the TGV,AVE or Frecciarossa network, its still good and pretty cool considering the fact that these are 1800s alignments. Not to mention that the UK is still getting journey time improvements via the IETs and electrification, which will boost average speeds and slightly cut journey times due to their acceleration being very good, in spite of alot of them being limited to 125mph, though they can go to 140 under ETCS (they had to hit 154 in testing actually)

[@caramelldansen2204]

It's class warfare. Are you willing to fight back?

[@Fan652w]

Thank you Reece for an excellent video, which except on one detail, is a fair summary of the position in Britain. The missing detail is that your maps of British lines served by 200 kph trains should have included a line branching off the Bristol main line and running to South Wales through the Severn Tunnel. Perhaps the most important point is the last thing you say. 'Average speeds matter more than top speeds.' That point is often overlooked by British politicians.

[@mattevans4377]

Because it was designed as a vanity project and not an actual railway. Also as a way to shovel money to friends of politicians. Shame we can't have actual infrastructure projects in the UK, designed to work, not just to stroke egos and fill wallets.

[@Fan652w]

@@Bungle-UK I agree

[@mrvwbug4423]

Average speeds on the WCML are going to plummet once the 805s replace the 390s. The 805s are capped at 110mph on the WCML. The 805s won't be able to go any faster than the 350s used by LNWR, and those are literally just glorified commuter trains

[@Dinoteddi]

@@mrvwbug4423 805s and 807s aren't replacing the 390s. They are replacing the 220s/221s

[@SupremeLeaderKimJong-un]

As you briefly brought up, when Eurostar got started, it didn't serve St. Pancras as its London terminus but rather Waterloo as Waterloo International! Although the London terminus had long planned to be in the north of London, the major construction works required to accommodate this plan had not started by the time the Channel Tunnel was completed in 1994. Instead, new platforms were built on the western side of Waterloo station, replacing platforms 20 and 21. The station was designed by Grimshaw Architects with Sir Alexander Gibb & Partners appointed consultant engineers. Its glass and steel vault of 36 arches forming a prismatic structure was conceived by Anthony Hunt Associates. In the meantime, London and Continental Railways was selected by the government in 1996 to reconstruct St Pancras. And as you mentioned, the second phase of High Speed 1 was completed in 2007, and thus Waterloo International ceased its Eurostar operations in November of that year. After the transfer of Eurostar services from Waterloo, the former Eurostar platforms 20-24 of Waterloo International remained unused until they were fully brought back into service in May 2019, after partial re-opening in December 2018. Bringing the platforms back into service eased capacity issues

[@SKAOG21]

Labour should at minimum build the HS2 Euston station in full, and from there restart the expansion from Birmingham to Manchester/ Leeds once people experience for themselves the convenience of trains. People complained a lot about Crossrail/Elizabeth line's cost overruns, but now people appreciate the fact that it has been built, and no one cares about the costs anymore because they see the convenience it has brought.

[@northbytrain]

Yes- They should also look north a lot more for railway projects... for example, the Leamside line.

[@Pesmog]

I don't thing Euston has ever really been at risk. Its just what is being built, and how, that will change. They have to do something about the 'old' 1960's part of the station just as much as the new bit on the side for HS2. I am expecting a complete rethink due to private money, with the final design being a paired down station architecture, you know, the sort of station that Ryanair might build if they operated trains... 😁

[@frongus47]

No that's not the minimum the minimum is to huild it to Manchester and Leeds all Conservatives do is promise and lie they need to change they were one the good guys. Don't forget we are in britan. We invented trains

[@joegrey9807]

I think they should get HS3 Liverpool to York built as HS rail for the capacity. Then extend HS2 to Manchester with a connection to HS3, and HS2 from Birmingham to Sheffield and possibly Leeds can come later. But the key is that while you're building HS rail you plan the new services and stations that make use of the released capacity, that will show the benefits and help sell the project. New suburban stations in Coventry, Leicester and Peterborough, etc.

[@NaenaeGaming]

I imagine HS2 will inevitably be extended even further than the original plans, but the government not building those segments now just means it’ll cost more for the taxpayer.

[@mst4309]

I think the Great Western main line is the best high speed mainline in the country, doing the iconic Paddington station justice, and the hub at Reading honestly creates some impressive connectivity.

[@RichardFraser-y9t]

The reading station rebuild along with electrification all the way into Wales has made a really big difference.

[@davidty2006]

As someone from the northeast i haft to say nothing beats the ECML.

[@ethmister]

As a westerner the GWR has been the best for centuries

[@Jaydotp]

It's a fantastic line but it's always down cause of signalling or something

[@ethmister]

@Jaydotp massive underinvestment for years sadly mean GWML is going down hill

[@henreereeman8529]

Great video but I would like to maybe see more description of the actual route of the West Coast Mainline? That seemed to be a bit brushed over compared to other lines, but to be fair the APT/Pendolino bit was excellent

[@tomwatts703]

10:20 "much of the near-term will be spent reckoning with the foolish decisions being made with HS2" in a lot of ways that feels like the way British railway network has operated for about 60 years now: an anti-rail government makes short-term decisions that screw over the railway, and the following decade or two are spent dealing with the fallout. It still makes me seriously angry to think about how much HS2 has been both bungled and intentionally sabotaged, but I have hope that it'll reach the North eventually (even if not in my lifetime). At the very least a HS1-HS2 link is sorely needed in the next decade or so to help the Channel Tunnel reach its full potential.

[@ricktownend9144]

@@Bungle-UK - you have something of a point, but - for your definition - how about (1) has a leader who helicopters everywhere (2) can't get a proposal (GB Railways) thought up by themselves into operation after an interminable period of unenthusiastic preparation (3) proposes closing all ticket offices (4) keeps changing the ground rules for projects - e.g. HS2 - (5) messes the wider rail industry around by lack of long-term planning: feast or famine in rolling-stock orders, no rolling electrification program ... etc., etc.. (have a look at Scotland for an alternative vision)

[@tomwatts703]

@@Bungle-UK the attempt at ticket office closures and the slashing of HS2 were most definitely not caused by the industry itself.

[@jlh4ac]

@@Bungle-UK The rail industry can't invest capital it does not have meaning that if investment from the government or other services is sporadic and is regularly withdrawn on a whim the rail industry can't build up a large pool of in-house workers, suppliers and contractors thus in-demand contractors and suppliers will ask for a lot higher payment especially if the project is likely to have it funding looted by the government halfway through.

[@Richard-iq8xb]

@@ricktownend9144 Scotland is demonstrating that public ownership means constraints on investment into railways when the government hasn't got enough money for all of it's capital projects. Whatever its other failings privatization did enable investment into rolling stock as this video highlighted. And don't forget that the EU mandates that rail services are open to competition, so if Scotland ever were to join the EU it would need to alter its current rail policy.

[@jlh4ac]

​@@Bungle-UK Funding for French State Railways is much less sporadic and is far less subject to political whims than funding for British railways, many infrastructure policy experts point to this as one of the major reasons why the French TGV was less costly per kilometre than the HS2. We don't need to accept austerity, it has been proven (Most though UK’s continued stagnating economy, the increasing cost of living (Pre-Covid) and the collapse of its public services being much worse than nations that have largely refused to adopt austerity policies.) of that continual sustainable investment in public services leads to stable long term growth and reliable good quality public services, while sporadic investment leads to a stagnant economy with collapsing public services.

[@kevinh96]

The state of the East Coast Mainline has always been a bugbear. They spent large sums of money on upgrades to gain 140/150mph+ speeds but then went cheap on the signalling systems at the time restricting trains to 125mph again. It's good that digital signalling is finally happening to enable faster running but unfortunately some sections of the line now require further upgrading due to congestion.

[@davidty2006]

The trains were ready for it 30 years ago. Well atleast the then brand new class 91's. Now decent chunk of the fleets have been widthdrawn and a few scrapped despite still being perfectly capable.

[@jeremybarker7577]

There simply was no money to upgrade the 1970s era signalling installed at Kings Cross, Peterborough and Doncaster other than the changes needed for electric traction (mainly changing track circuits to single-rail and swapping some relays for AC-immune types). A fairly short stretch was upgraded to add a 5th aspect but that came to nothing when it was decided that for speeds over 125 mph cab signalling was mandatory.

[@NaenaeGaming]

⁠@@davidty2006Yes, but as the 80Xs can do 140 just fine, and the HSTs are gone, LNER (and Hull Trains) will still be able to run all services at the higher top speed soon, leaving just Grand Central stuck at 125 if they can’t replace their 180s and 221s by then.

[@mrvwbug4423]

So far only London to Peterborough has been upgraded to ETCS. No idea when the rest of the line will be upgraded. Line speeds from London to Peterborough still remain at 125 though. I'm surprised the UK lets trains run at 125 with just wayside signals (and the infamous AWS "sunflower"). The US requires cab signaling to operate above 79mph, PTC with pulse code up to 110mph and PTC with ACSES or ERTMS for 125+ (Amtrak uses ACSES, Brightline uses I-ERTMS which is a variant of ETCS).

[@RMTransit]

Its really a surprising state of affairs!

[@anainbed]

Probably good to note that a lot of a capacity benefits of HS2 have been killed by cancelling the northen legs

[@Cowman9791]

Indeed, because the reality is london to Birmingham on its own would never have produced a business case for what is being built now.

[@Soj_89]

It has actually decreased capacity on the West Coast Main Line because of the junction between HS2 an the main line going into the slow tracks, requiring trains to cross over into the high speed tracks, which means that they occupy both tracks for significantly longer than necessary if the junction was designed well. This is also made worse by short platforms in Manchester which means that twin units of HS2 trains cannot fit, but the pendolinos which currently serve Manchester are less long than double units of HS2 rolling stock, but have more capacity than single units from HS2, so by routing express trains over HS2 at 350km/h the amount of passengers which can take them is reduced.

[@mrvwbug4423]

@@Soj_89 Remember the Pendolinos are due to be retired in the next few years to be replaced by the class 805 IETs. that will reduced both speed and capacity on WCML as the 805s operate in 5 or 9 car sets while most Pendolinos are 11 car sets, and the 805s are capped at 110mph on the WCML as they lack tilting technology.

[@watcherzero5256]

@@mrvwbug4423 The 5-car bi-mode class 805's are replacing the 4/5-car class 221's on the North Wales and Chester route and have between 50 and 113 more seats due to the carriages being 2.5m longer. Meanwhile the 7-car EMU class 807's are replacing them on the Liverpool, Birmingham and Blackpool routes and have 207 more seats. The Pendolino will remain in service but from around 2029/30 begin being replaced by the HS2 sets which actually have a reduction in seats of 79 over the 11-car Pendolino to Manchester/Scotland unless they lengthen platforms because they were meant to be operated as 400m coupled pairs. They would be a 59 seat increase over the 9-car Pendolino to Liverpool though which cant take 11-Car Pendolino's due to platform length (would require widening the cutting to extend the station platforms). Incidentally when the 221's are removed permission is being given for non-tilting multiple units to do 115-120mph on the Southern WCML rather than the existing 110mph non-tilting limit.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

The story behind why Stratford International exists is quite interesting. Basically when there were plans for Eurostar to have services to go beyond London like Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, and Newcastle, the plan was for a station at Stratford so that the regional services don't need to go to St. Pancras to stop in London. It was hoped that after London won the right to host the 2012 Summer Olympics in 2005, that the Eurostar station would be part of a big regeneration of the area. Several factors dampened the prospects of Regional Eurostar and so Regional Eurostar didn't happen. But Stratford International was still built and opened in 2009 with the DLR station opening in 2011. However, the station was not authorized by the Channel Tunnel Rail Link Act 1996 and an order under the Transport and Works Act 1992 had to be made to allow for its construction. During the 2012 Summer Olympics, eight trains ran an hour between St Pancras and Ebbsfleet, calling at Stratford to handle all the crowds going to the Olympic Park. Two of these would be extended to Ashford and one to Faversham. The Class 395 trains were nicknamed the Javelin for the Olympics. To enable the domestic services to stop at platforms previously designed for Eurostar trains, the platforms had to be raised

[@EILEENZ0122]

Thank u for sharing😍 Detailed❤ Hope my railcard bought in a cheap price can use🥺

[@philipkudrna5643]

Thanks for including the maps into your videos. It helps a lot better understanding what you are talking about!

[@garethnet]

Euston to St Pancras is not a long walk for most UK residents. And there is a nice walking route through the estates rather than Euston Road.

[@katrinabryce]

There are already at least two slow lines between Old Oak Common and Stratford, the North London Line, and the Elizabeth Line. Those are the two that have direct passenger services, there are probably additional options for freight. The Eurostar regional project planned to use the North London Line, and intercity services do sometimes use it to divert around engineering works. It most definitely isn't a high speed line though. If I am changing between Euston and Kings Cross or St Pancras, I find it is quicker to take the bus than the Northern or Victoria lines, mainly because you can get to and from the bus stop a lot quicker than you can get to to the platforms. The TFL route planner recommends the No. 73 bus which takes 5 minutes. The Victoria line takes 1 minute, but it thinks it will take about 15 minutes of walking to get to and from the platforms

[@surreygoldprospector576]

There was talk of building a people-mover between Euston and St. Pancras, but I think that's been canned now. Also a new interchange with Euston Square, which would have been another tube connection option.

[@lucaslawrence6020]

Those intercities that were imported to Australia were also recently sold to Mexico where they operate on the ferrocarril interoceanico, together with some old Amtrak trains and some newer train-trams that were used in Puebla.

[@davidty2006]

the Mexican exports were for testing last i checked. But does show how much power you can cram into a dinky engine.

[@ricktownend9144]

I'd love to see a train consist made up of bits of a UK HST, an old American carriage or two, and a tram-train! Maybe Sam's Trains could show that in model form ...

[@lucaslawrence6020]

@@ricktownend9144 its not a train made up of different trains, they will use each type of train for different types of service (local/intercity) and on different lines of the interoceanico network, wich connect to the maya train network

[@lucaslawrence6020]

@@ricktownend9144 but indeen such a model would be super cool to see!

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

The trains you are on about the Inter City XPT were not imported into Austrailia, they were buit under licence from British Rail Engineering in Austrailia as a copy of the British Rail Inter City 125 High Speed Train, exept where the British HST could do 125 + MPH the Austrailian Version only did 90 MPH and it is the British HST trains that are being exported to South America not the Austrailian XPT version.

[@transitspace4366]

There was originally going to be a tunnel connecting HS1 to HS2 (though much more reasonable than the massive cross-city tunnel of your dreams, that would be possible in Spain, France or Germany but definitely not in the UK lol) through Camden. But as the UK isn’t part of the Schengen area which requires border controls and customs checks at stations, and after the UK got excluded from the Trans-European Transport Network project (TEN-T) after BREXIT, they considered that international trips from the north wouldn’t be worth it and too difficult to implement. HS2 (even with all its cancelled phases) is still probably the most expensive HSR project in the world.

[@nicolascommisso3151]

A tunnel would be eventually possible in France, but even there it hasn't been chosen for Paris, for example. Paris (and London is a similar case) being mainly a destination, it was instead chosen to have multiple lines with multiple terminal stations in the city and to send through services around the city. For example, Strasbourg-Bordeaux doesn't stop in Paris, passing through the periphery instead - but serving airports directly. I think it's a clever design choice, since it helps spread demand for different kinds of service on different infrastructures instead of getting everything on the same tracks (expensively built since they're in urban areas). It's probably helped by the fact that even if France is polarised around Paris, big cities are relatively equilibrated around, which is not the case in the UK. A bypassing line between HS1 and HS2 passing through Heathrow would still be a win for me, though.

[@barvdw]

@@nicolascommisso3151 yes. A line along one of the Overground corridors connecting both would probably work as well, perhaps with either Stratford or Old Oak Common as the equivalent for Marne-la-Vallée to Paris...

[@RMTransit]

I don't think there is any reason that the UK should aim for less than Spain Germany or France!

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

What utter rubbish, no such plans ever existed

[@kenoliver8913]

So really this is yet another casualty of Brexit. Whether Brexit made sense for the UK as a whole is one thing, but it was always obvious that longrun the only way all those chronically depressed midland and northern cities could prosper was tight integration with their largest market. Yet they were the ones that voted for Brexit!

[@chrisfletcher86]

Really enjoyed this! Have you considered doing a video on some of the smaller but not small lines in the UK? Some of these (such as between Birmingham and Shrewsbury and north and south Wales) are still long journeys but are still running on old diesel trains and very full carriages. I'd be interested to see your views on these and how they could be improved, especially if some of the same challenges have been tackled in Europe or Asia. You've now talked about inner city travel and high speed travel in the UK, this is the final piece to me!

[@metal-gods]

1:25 got to love the Crewe heratage center. One of the best stories of high speed I was ever told when I went there with my perants and was told how my grandad used to speed through certain bits of the country side when he was running late on parts of the London Manchester route.

[@happy_capybara]

Birmingham to Leeds route is horrible. One train per hour, often only 4 carriages. Often standing room only and so many passengers already onboard people are refused entry to the train! HS2 would have helped, but simply doubling the frequency and/or the size of trains would fix the issue. Typical that london got the Elizabeth Line but the Birmingham to Leeds route had its number of trains cut in 2023!

[@tomwatts703]

Absolutely agreed, the early evening services in particular are quite literally packed - and CrossCountry had the nerve to say they 'needed less trains to offer the same number of seats'!

[@railotaku]

London had to fund most of the Elizabeth line through local Taxes, the National Gov would only contribute to the parts outside London. And they only got permission because they had a conservative mayor at the time. Once Labour took over as Mayor in London the Conservative government has been a LOT more hostile to London. Current government policy is very much slash and burn while trying to hobble the rail network as much as possible.

[@happy_capybara]

​@@railotakuno surprise the Tories are only helping their own! I'd say that what London is experiencing now is what everyone else has experienced since the 1980s 🫠 (that being said London did just get hundreds of millions of fund to improve the roads, that was money from canceling HS2) . Fingers crossed we get a change of policy in 2024 and rail is put at the centre of our national transport strategy again

[@happy_capybara]

​@@tomwatts703agree. I have no idea why they thought getting rid of the HST stock was a good idea (apart from saving money). Why can't XC get some nice bi/Tri-modal trains? Some nice 9 car sets would really improve journeys and surly, in the long term, the ability to use electric overhead lines on long stretches of the route would be more cost effective than continuing to use and maintain diesel powered trains?

[@railotaku]

@@happy_capybara Apparently that's going to the boroughs rather then TfL, and of course the Conservative voting ones in outer London are getting the majority

[@felixdatche9278]

This is probably the most positive take I've seen on UK rail...most are usually so negative esp when touching on HS2 and delving into endless comparisons with other countries.

[@MrS1ebee]

This is another great video, thank you for making it. When i was at uni in London studying planning in the early 2010s I worked on a HS2 focussed group project which we ultimately presented to reps from HS2 ltd. In it we argued for the HS2 terminus to be at Stratford ,passing though Old Oak on the way and with potential for a spur in to St Panc, Kings X or Euston (though, even at the time, we anticipated the work required at Euston was prohibitively expensive and likely to receive huge push back given it's proximity to the continually-development-impacted housing estate between Euston & Kings X). But, rather than building a tunnel all the way through London to connect OOC and Stratford, there is an existing freight line that could be upgraded that goes through the middle of Camden Town. The trains won't be going at high speeds through central London anyway, even in a tunnel, so it's not like the line needs the full HS treatment. The rationale at the time for a Stratford terminus was to support the post-olympic legacy, to contribute to the more general shift East of development in London (which was a big talking point at the time) and to allow for quicker transfer to HS1. I still think these justifications hold up and with crossrail now up and running, even more so

[@tomheadington4762]

Loved that closing shot with two open acsess operators and an LNER train at Doncaster. My only nitpick would be the lack of mentioning of the fact all high speed rail lines connect to London and the only 125mph line not directly from A - London is the cross country route beyween Birmingham and Derby. It's a shame the government will only speed up trains to London and not between other cities in the north.

[@nickjasperse9903]

Great timing bro

[@Quietloud]

I'd really like to see an analysis of what Transport for Wales is doing with their new South Wales Metro project. It's not as glamourous as other projects, sure, but they're revamping existing rail lines for much more frequent service around Cardiff's metropolitan area using tram trains.

[@TechToby7]

This is ironic, talking about highspeed rail on the day no highspeed trains are running from St Pancras.

[@toby.maximillian]

HS2 is going to be very impressive- looking at the construction currently some excellent architecture and landscaping along the line. Can’t wait to see it (hopefully on this channel too!) Despite everyone being upset about the cancellation of the northern leg I’m seeing it as a delay to an extension of HS2

[@weifengjiang7579]

Terminating stations at St Pancras and Euston are not capacity limiters. The number of domestic and international platforms at St Pancras easily allows for 8tph domestics and 4 internationals (which I think is around the theoretical maximum capacity of HS1 due to speed differentials). The unadulterated design of Euston HS2 allows for 18tph. Terminating platforms allow sets to recover from small delays and maximise the chance of departing services being on time. Loading and unloading passengers at London termini require the typical inter-city turnaround times. A tunnel under Central London would be astronomically expensive and just not make sense. UK's insistence in staying outside Schengen means trains can't be a mixture of domestic and international - a Manchester - Paris service would not be able to carry domestic UK passengers (well it could, but passengers would have to go through passport control). Kent domestics are limited to UK gauge, 20m coaches and want to have 1/3 2/3 door rolling stock, whereas HS2 wants to operate GC gauge (where it can), 25m coaches with end doors. With both lines having long run capacity fully utilised and fully allocated, running through services would just mean taking something out - robbing Peter to pay Paul. The last thing London needs is a version of Berlin Hbf.

[@ChetNotJet]

10:18 oh my goodness, it's a transpennine express train that is actually running!

[@user-lp5wb2rb3v]

Fun fact. If the uk started HS2 rather than the Iraq/Afgan War, then it would have probably been complete 5-10 years ago for less than the losses in that pointless war

[@jockcox]

Train travel in the UK is pretty good by international standards and improving relatively as other countries (cough cough Germany) suffer from lack of investment over the last twenty or so years. The primary issue is capacity. I travel on the Midland Mainline reasonably regularly and it is almost always packed, often to the point where I would seriously worry if someone fell ill on board. HS2 could have helped ease this by providing a secondary route to the East Midlands and Sheffield, but the cancellation of that leg means there will be no change on an overstretched (and of course still very expensive) part of the network. Ongoing electrification may allow a few more trains to run daily, but frankly the state of many intercity lines is sufficiently bad to demand increases in capacity of 50% or more, which are not forthcoming.

[@spetz911]

Thanks for covering the UK! I hope we’ll see even more videos on it next year ❤

[@wasmic5z]

Denmark is in a situation that is quite similar to the UK - most mainline railways have been upgraded to 180 km/h for quite a while now, and the final remaining ones are currently undergoing the same upgrades. Most of the train network is non-electrified too, but this is quickly being fixed for the mainlines in current upgrade programmes - though the local lines will instead be battery electrified, which is... not great but still an improvement. Due to Denmark's small size, the longest distance between two major cities can be traversed in just 4 hours and 10 minutes, a number that will drop by around 30 minutes as currently in-progress upgrades come online. However, also similar to the UK, Denmark had big plans for high-speed rail that were drastically scaled back, particularly in regard to a tunnel under Vejle Fjord that would have saved 10 minutes on the trip between Odense and Aarhus and increased capacity significantly. Currently Denmark has a lot of fast conventional track of 180-200 km/h top speed, but only 54 km of true 250 km/h high speed railway... and of course, there are no trains in Denmark that are capable of reaching those speeds, currently, with the fastest rolling stock being capable of only 200 km/h.

[@drdewott9154]

Its neat getting a perspective like this. Where Im from in Denmark just to the east of the UK we're following a lot of the UK and Germany's footsteps. We're upgrading vast chunks of our legacy network to 125mph and electric operation, and building 155mph high speed lines as relief where there are capacity constraints. One of these high speed lines is already open with another one starting construction, a third one that got cancelled due to Nimbys and a mayor who didnt understand its purpose, and a 4th one that is currently politically undecided. We did have an ambitious plan for a nationwide takt similar to Switzerland with 1 hour of travel time between all major cities however these plans have been derailed and left half baked. Its a shame. If they were completed we'd have identical average speeds on our express services to the German ICE trains. But alas we will not. We also have no concrete plans to buy 155mph trains, just 125mph with the Alstom Coradia Streams, Siemens Vectron locomotives, and Talgo 230 rakes. But all of this will still be a formidable upgrade to the rail system which over around a decade will shorten journey times between Copenhagen and Aalborg, the most important corridor, by 45 minutes!

[@mrvwbug4423]

The German ICE trains are criminally underutilized. There's very little track in Germany where the ICE 3s can use their 330km/h top speed. There's not even that much LZB territory where they can even go faster than 160km/h, and most of the time when they are in LZB territory they're still limited to 250km/h max.

[@DeathInTheSnow]

I hate the Tories and I hate their anti-train and anti-human mentality lol We could have had high speed trains in the 60s. But Ernest Marples, whose family owned a tarmac company, employed Richard Beeching, who cut several railways as they were considered to be unviable. They built half-finished motorways instead. We could have had high speed trains in the 80s. Instead, we got Margaret Thatcher, who hated trains, and even assumed initially that the Channel Tunnel would be for cars instead. We also got the compromise that was the Pacers, literally buses put on train tracks, and the DLR, the cheapest alternative to a train they could justify for an area that desperately needed trains. We could have had high speed trains in the 90s, but instead John Major privatised the trains and therefore made them for-profit instead of for-public. We still haven't recovered from this, despite the buy-backs happening as all of these franchises continue to fail. And we could have had high speed rail in the 2010s. But thanks to David Cameron, Boris Johnson, and now Rishi Sunak, we've seen HS2 cut, and cut, and cut some more, while the party now considers 15 minute cities to be a leftist conspiracy. Hell, even the new trains in London, like the FLIRT introduced in 2020, were originally designed in _2004._ Britain is the birthplace of trains, but each successive Tory government has derailed every project that's come along just to make a few quid from the taxpayer before sneering at us and disappearing in disgrace. I can't take it any more. How are we supposed to live like this?

[@davidty2006]

Goes to show how far downhill the tories have went. Back in the 1860's they BUILT those railways.

[@DeathInTheSnow]

Actually that's not true either. They were built by private venture. There were lots of failed railways then and they were competing with each other.

[@grahamwhitworth9454]

Interesting that you miss out the 70s and 2000s, when we had Labour governments, but still didn't get high speed trains.

[@DeathInTheSnow]

You're right. We didn't. Except, we did. Because the 70s was when the APT, Channel Tunnel (in its modern form) and Intercity 125s were conceived, and the 2000s were when HS2 were created, as well as the current wave of 200kmph trains. Now imagine how much better they could have been if the Tories hadn't ruined them, as mentioned above.

[@jlh4ac]

@@grahamwhitworth9454 The Labour governments of 1970s continued the high-speed rail projects that were started by British Rail under the Tories and then cancelled by Tories when they got back into power, they started the Selby High-speed diversion, and the InterCity 125 project was started and finished under Labour. The Blairite Labour governments did failed to revive the InterCity 250 project, and continued with the railway privatisation BS but that is to be expected as Blairites are just Tory-lite, and High Speed 2 and Intercity Express Programme were both proposed by the Department for Transport under Labour, and the ongoing WCML modernisation was started under Labour.

[@manomaylr]

I should just say, Reece, that although Mallard did reach 125mph, it did this once as a record break and needed repairs when it stopped afterwards. Until the HSTs no UK train did 125mph in regular service.

[@CorbyTaylor]

I had no idea about the speed of the trains in the UK. I live in Dagenham (Very East London). It takes 60 minutes to get from my house to Euston, but only 50 minutes to get from Euston to Coventry in the Midlands. I just thought this kind of speed is normal elsewhere.

[@mrvwbug4423]

The UK can operate most of their inter-city trains at 110-125mph depending on the line and the rolling stock. French trains that aren't TGVs aren't fast at all, 160km/h max outside of LGV track and only TGVs are allowed on LGV track, most are just local commuter lines or metros. Germany has only a tiny amount of high speed track that allows speeds over 250km/h, and a relatively limited amount of LZB territory that allows speeds between 160-250km/h, most of Germany is PZB territory which has a 160km/h max speed. US train speeds are just lol.

[@skyscraperfan]

I was surprised how slow the average speed of trains in Germany is, but having tons of local trains reduces the average speed a lot compared to other countries that do not have many local trains. The costs of HS2 are shocking. What makes construction of a high speed rail line in the UK so much more expensive than in Germany, France or Japan? The reason for all those planned cuts is that the projected costs had risen to more than 100 billion pounds. High train ticket prices have been a huge problem in the past. For spontaneous trips even taking a taxi was sometimes cheaper than taking a train. Even for a single person, but that taxi could of course transport two or more people without any surcharge. If taking a taxi is cheaper than taking a train, something is seriously wrong. I wonder how much a spontaneous trip on the HS2 will cost, given the enormous price tag of the project.

[@davidty2006]

Theres several factors to the high cost. Nimby's, Shitty government managment, massive timegap between projects leading to loss in skilled workers being the notable ones.

[@salkoharper2908]

A lot of money was stolen in corruption as well. Many 'English' people can't bring themselves to accept that they have one of the most criminally corrupt governments in Europe right now. Literally Billions of £££ were stolen during Covid and PPE theft. Not hard to imagine, a lot was also stolen during HS2. Theiving Tory politicians certainly did alright out of it.

[@theodorechiou2886]

the main gripe with british rail is the price, for my whole family to travel on the THSR it would cost the same for me to travel alone in a lot of Britain...

[@dennyroozeboom4795]

Hi guys. Why does Reece draw the tunnel under London center and not just follow most of the existing track to connect old oak to Stratford?

[@dansummers2965]

Yeah, I wondered that. I assume because it means that trains slowing down into / speeding up out of Euston and St Pancras terminals won't interfere with high-speed through traffic.

[@dennyroozeboom4795]

@@dansummers2965 I could imagine something like it. But why not express tracks parallel to it? I’m sure he did it for a reason I just can’t see it.

[@kyleid3446]

to add to this he literally drew elizabeth line - it goes/will go from old oak common to stratford! Although it's always rammed so don't think it would actually work, but still , found it quite funny that he created a second lizzy line haha

[@ricktownend9144]

Actually, I agree with Reece's suggestion as a long-term plan to sort out the long-distance rail lines which all end on the edge of London's centre due to Victorian London's local big-wigs' anti-rail prejudice (the current government is not the only anti-rail government the UK has had). The M25 motorway around London is overloaded with cars taking people from e.g. Hastings to Sheffield. Why is it a good idea to make people change from one intercity train on to a cramped tube-train and then the same in reverse at the other terminal? Not to speak of the long walks, probably with heavy luggage ... One central station for all trains would be unmanageable, but how about a triangle - perhaps West-End ('down-town'), City (business), and South-bank (Arts/culture - and not far from parliament)? All long-distance trains would call at two of these - Reece's HS2 trains would call at the first two on their way from OOC to Stratford - and then terminate at a station on the further edge of London with facilities for train-care, staff rest-breaks etc.. All tube trains and most buses would call at at least one of the 'triangle' stations, which would be built with twin island platforms on each through-route , and top-notch transfer facilities (bearing in mind many people will be travelling in family groups and/or with heavy luggage - though maybe we should bring back the old British Rail 'luggage in advance' scheme (like checking in luggage at an airport). In my view, station design should be simple rather than 'grand' with way-finding signs designed and placed as per the tube network, which has done its job marvellously for over a hundred years.

[@dennyroozeboom4795]

@@ricktownend9144 I’d kind of understand different stations on different sides of the city to spread the load but isn’t that already happening with the 2 stations? And if we stop even more in London it kind of takes away from the whole idea that HSR is a super express service. Maybe one more could work but it might also lead to people just taking that one and it could overcrowd. If you ask me the load spreading is exactly what the Elisabeth line does in this situation and is made for. I don’t think you suggested it but it would obviously be hard to fit HSR in the Elisabeth line due to capacity.

[@TurboTimsWorld]

I was at the first APT-E 152mph run between Uffington and Reading .yes I was 5 but my dad cine filmed it, I will post a link below if your channel lets me; Oh and I have been in the APT-E cab with Kitt Spackman the chief engineer of the project !

[@lucaspublictransport995]

8:00 This, in the end, does not seem so terrible to me. If they had built an HS2 station at Euston in the first place, there would have been very little room to create a link between HS1 and HS2 in the near future. With HS2 now planned to terminate at Old Oak Common, do you guys think there may be room for a future government to approve a new and better plan to extend HS2 into central London, perhaps allowing it to connect with HS1 or terminating at King's Cross?

[@bubba842]

Curzon street is a 5 min walk from Birmingham New Street. Its not exactly far. Its pretty much right in Birmingham city centre. And as for the walk from Euston to St. Pancras, its like 5 mins. It would take longer to walk down to the tube, wait for a train and walk back up the stairs at St. Pancras than it would be just to walk. A taxi would be absolutely stupid. It would be a complete waste of money.

[@altdoe9699]

Good things UK has done recently in regards to transit: Have large amounts of good enough legacy infrastrucfure that you can upgrade piecemeal (if at all). Bad things UK has done recently in regards to transit: Almost everything else.

[@liquid_oxygen4409]

I cannot justify calling 200km/h "high speed", intercity by European standards, but "high speed" by UK standards, it is a shame that there is absolutely no competition for the channel tunnel at all, the only international rail operator in the UK is Eurostar which is so expensive compared to the likes of TGV inOui and the ICE which was supposed to come to the UK like 13 years ago but eventually pulled out.

[@spottymaxy1628]

That's more of an issue of the UK's railways as a whole

[@tomeklecocq]

A huge problem is a lack of capacity at St Pancras for passport checks, so Eurostar runs even fewer trains than before Brexit now. If another competitor would like to start operating, it would need to sort this problem first (like maybe start using Stratford International).

[@davidty2006]

200km/h is the low end of high speed. 225km/h is around approaching max for conventional rail which theres 30 year old trains that have the capability to do that but never been able to...

[@spottymaxy1628]

I wonder why the 395s that run on Southeastern High-speed routes don't utilise a higher top speed

[@MarioFanGamer659]

Just FYI, 200 km/h is defined as high-speed if the tracks in question were upgraded to that speed. That being said, newly built tracks _must_ support +250 km/h speeds sustained which the UK, HS1 aside, currently lacks.

[@a1white]

The underground tunnel from Old Oak Common to Stratford already exists, in the form of Crossrail. There is no way in hell that another tunnel could ever be built.

[@davidty2006]

Unless the construction workers went rouge.

[@peterd788]

The UK has the same population as France (officially but both countries shamelessly understate their populations) but the UK is geographically much smaller with a weird population distribution resulting in high density pockets not seen in other countries. On paper the UK has a population density slightly over double that of France and the 7th highest in the world. However, England has a population density over 3.5 times that of France. England needs capacity over TGV style speed in London and the South East. There's a case for dedicated track for 125 mph lines alongside commuter lines in places but the case for any large number of 200 mph lines is very flimsy. This is particularly true because the legal and environmental framework makes building them extraordinarily expensive. The GB passenger rail system is quite impressive but if goods traffic is going to increase in support of net zero goals the infrastructure capacity desperately needs to improve.

[@kenoliver8913]

This is a pretty critical point. Unlike many other countries there is amazingly little advantage to true HSR in England; the critical need has long been improved FREIGHT capacity (something the restricted loading gauge has long made hard). But there are not many votes in announcing a spend of billions of pounds on that while announcing new HSR, complete with absurd cost underestimates, is a proven election winner. That's politics.

[@StarlightDX]

I noticed you said the Eurostar is the only example of a high speed train with 3rd rail shoes you know of, but then you mention the 395? Idk, the Southeastern one.

[@davidty2006]

The Javelins indeed do have 3rd rail pickups. Though the Class 373 eurostars are the only locomotive hauled high speed trains with 3rd rail ability.

[@MercenaryPen]

this is likely a matter of definitions- since while the 395 has the fastest speed of all domestic rolling stock, it does end up coming up short of the speeds that are considered to be true high speed rail (as opposed to higher speed rail)... with some definitions of high speed rail requiring speeds in excess of 155mph in regular service

[@StarlightDX]

@@MercenaryPen you make a good point

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

The Eurostar trains have had the third rail pick up shoes removed when HS1 line was opened to London St Pancras International as they no longer run on the Southern 3rd rail rutes any more

[@technetium9653]

Shockingly the UK is a shining star of high speed rail in the English speaking world, yes surprisingly no other English speaking country has high speed rail

[@a1white]

Ha! This is a ridiculous when you think of it like that 😅

[@TheBleggh]

Eh, no, the Amtrak Acela *is* true high speed rail, even if the segments where it reaches those speeds are fairly brief.

[@ChetNotJet]

10:37 there was one in the original plan but it was cut as it was too expensive, it was litteraly 700 metres long

[@Gfynbcyiokbg8710]

Its not that simple

[@eddie4324]

The main issues, as I understand it, with having higher speed rail in the UK is the old signalling and slower freight trains using the same line.

[@aaronplace]

I was really surprised to hear about the average speeds but it makes sense when you think of how many express intercity services we have. Whist we're limited to 125mph we make pretty good use of it. I'd love to find more info about average speeds as a whole in the UK and other countries but I couldn't find much (everything inevitably leads to talking about top speeds, or average speeds of a specific line rather than country)

[@andabossftw]

At St Prancras there are tracks from HS1 onto the north London line which then allow trains onto the Great Western and West Coast mainlines but these have never been used by passenger trains before.

[@bjturon]

The Story of British HSR really starts with the Deltics on the East Coast Main Line and the electrification of the West Coast Mainline and the birth of "Intercity" as a concept and brand in the 1960s.

[@SaturnCanuck]

Great essay Reece. Have a Happy New Year

[@AMGitsKriss]

I'm could've sworn the 125mph speed limit on the East Coast Mainline is mostly a limitation of the "suspected wire" style overhead lines they've opted for, rather than the signalling system. The powerlines are hung from wires that are hung from more wires suspended between posts, instead of a fixed gantry.

[@manomaylr]

The “headspans” as they’re called are indeed problematic. I’ve heard some upgrades are hopefully going to happen but in this climate no one knows. But the main reason prohibiting 140mph is the lack of in-cab signaling. 140 was deemed too fast for drivers to observe line-side signals safely. When the ECML gets in-cab signaling this could very much change. The 800 series trains are futureproofed for 140.

[@kingkal81]

Great video as always. I hope you have a great new year. 🎉

[@RMTransit]

Happy new year! Thank you!

[@awesomealbertt1150]

I like how you talked about the Eurostar line quite a lot then a couple of hours after the video was posted the channel tunnel flooded

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

The Channel Tunnel has not flooded, it was a tunnel in Kent on the HS1 line that flooded

[@awesomealbertt1150]

@@peterwilliamallen1063 yes whoops that’s what I meant

[@bfapple]

Minor correction from an ECDP engineer here - in-cab ETCS signalling is a pre-requisite for >125mph operation, but it also requires level crossings to be closed, ‘fast’ platforms to be gated and track geometry to be improved.

[@manomaylr]

I’ve always wondered about level crossing closures. What material difference does it make to safety to have trains passing through at 140 and not 125? To put it bluntly, any accident would be carnage either way. Especially with ERTMS / ETCS in place, this could perhaps integrate better with level crossing obstacle detection, to slow trains down much further in advance if there is even a slight risk that a crossing will not be clear. Network Rail can decide, for each crossing, whether fitting such technology or closing the crossing would be cheaper. As for fast platforms, many (most?) are gated already, at least where the only trains regularly stopping do so on the slow platforms. Unless you mean they require platform screen doors, which would be a huge project.

[@Britishrailwaystories]

Surprised “Mallard” is your earliest definition of a high speed train. Mallard did 126mph - once - and the A4s generally averaged 60-65mph on their expresses with some decent sprints of up to 110mph at times pre and post Second World War.

[@kunaljain5558]

in last 4 months I've travelled with GWR and Avanti west coast 3 times and each time there has been atleast 1 last min cancelation of either the inbound or the outbound journey...🙃🙃although the service quality and train quality and maintenance was FAR better in GWR..!!

[@johnholt890]

Good objective balanced approach to UK Railways.

[@TrewStudios21]

The class 395 also operates with AC (Overhead pantograph lines) and DC (Shoe + 3rd rail) they operate on the Southeastern high speed line

[@gwenweight6916]

Dude, you need to start going to UN conferences and the Davos Circuit. Lots of transit planning talk and they get in to the end vision and goals of transit. I think it would help alleviate the confusion you often have about things like lines not being linked up and superficially sub optimal planning decisions. You are so good on the tactical transit that I'd love to see you cover strategic transit.

[@OliverRW1994]

Great video!! Just for your own personal knowledge, we pronounce the Intercity 125 and 225, as one-two-five, and two-two-five, not one twenty-five or two twenty-five. Keep up the great videos and hello from the UK!

[@ashliehiggins]

HST was a stop-gap train while the APT was delayed, it's a key example of "nothing more permanent than a temporary solution"

[@CrazyInWeston]

Yet the HST is so loved, that even today 40+yrs later, the newer trains aint up to scratch! Me myself, i miss my train home late at night hearing the slam doors.... That was the experience, dont get it anymore!

[@ashliehiggins]

​@@CrazyInWeston out of all GWR rolling stock MK4s were the comfiest carriages, these new 800's don't come close.

[@MatthewNichols-i8y]

I'm from the UK and while the Eurostar trains used the 3rd rail power, they weren't the only trains with the 3rd rail power, another HST also uses it

[@Rocksock531]

Great video, happy new year!

[@leomationsyt8112]

I remember the last time I took the UKs high speed railway from Glasgow to Manchester there was a guy sitting near us talking and laughing to himself

[@miamha]

Some of the money that was earmarked to be used in transport projects in the north (as part of network north) is to be spent on fixing potholes in London. The department for Transport bragged about it.

[@MrTTar]

Honestly, I never knew the UK had the fastest average train speeds - even though it does make sense when I think about it more seriously. Does anyone have a source for this? - as it would be interesting to see how different countries rank.

[@greghall4836]

I seriously doubt anyone is sitting on statistics showing the average speed of every train in every country in the world, nor anything close there of, nor that people could agree on what a train is or how to compare there speeds fairly.

[@greghall4836]

Maybe Monaco could claim the title of country with fastest average train speeds whenever no local trains are at their station and a single TGV is blasting through the country? :)

[@Franglais91]

Very interesting, especially as I'm right in the middle of it (I went under the Line 18 bridge yesterday). I never guessed the extent of the Arcueil development (which I've been observing for years).

[@yorkchris10]

My first trip on HSR was getting off the island. I made the trip across the channel as a kid on a ferry and it didn't agree with me. This network leg must have made so much sense and it was only the physical environment to deal with.

[@gorgu08]

You have summed it up perfectly, whilst other nations built dedicated high speed lines, the UK upgraded theirs which meant the bonus was those lines that also served as regional lines became faster meaning lower speed outright intercity services but faster regional services, for example whilst France has a much vaunted dedicated high speed line, their regional networks run at snails pace and therefore their average network speed is slower, it is not better or worse either way it is just different. Of course if we actually pulled our fingers out of our arse and completed HS2, we would have the best of both worlds, the fastest dedicated high speed lines in Europe and the fastest and capacity free mixed regional and freight network on the world, just have to wait for a government that is not an asset stripper for that to happen…

[@ricequackers]

The point about average speeds is pretty under appreciated and I myself didn't realise it until mentioned. Most trains, even local or regional routes easily run at 90-100mph, and 75 mph at a minimum so it can usually beat out a car. Assuming of course where you want to go from where you are lines up with a railway line.

[@TrystyKat]

The limitation on top speed on UK mainlines is driven mainly by a lack of in-cab signalling. It's predominantly coloured-lights, and in some parts of the network, manually-operated semaphore signals continue to be a thing. Upgrading the EML to ETCS will increase top speeds, but won't do anything to address capacity. This has become such an issue on the WML that surge pricing has been suggested to ease overcrowding in stations and onboard trains.

[@dharmapratama.i9487]

Wow what a timing Watching this while indonesian hsr achive 1 million ridership with almost 50 trips per day 😅 in just 2 months after the opening

[@Nouvellecosse]

11:48 "On the whole the UK has succeeded in extending some level of fast train services to large parts of the country. And I think this goes to show that the model of upgrading legacy railways is not without its merits" This is exactly what I find frustrating about how some people respond to the HSR/HFR discussion in Canada. While I would love HSR and I'd prefer it if we could deal with the cost and politics, there ARE other valid ways one can improve rail service at more conventional speeds. Yet I've encountered some who just write off HFR as being backward and totally pointless. Oh well every other major country has HSR so without that, we've failed and no one will ride. When in reality, you could significantly improve train service to regions containing a good half the national population.

[@davidpriestley1650]

HST whilst being retired in the UK are being exported to Mexico with Mk.3 coach sets likely heading for the Tren Maya line along the Yucatan peninsula as they're now looking to use diesel rather than electrification of the line.

[@LucyMichela]

This was super interesting, and I didn't know about the Euston situation... But the walk from Euston to St. Pancras is really not long. By time you get to the platform for the Northern line and wait the potential 2 minutes for the train, you would basically be at St. Pancras

[@Gfynbcyiokbg8710]

A 700m walk outside with bags or going all the way down into a crowded tube with big bags would still be very annoying

[@LucyMichela]

@Gfynbcyiokbg8710 Tbh, never bothered me before. I had to cross half of the city with 2 suitcases, heavy backpack, and a third bag, and coped fine in the end

[@Gfynbcyiokbg8710]

@@LucyMichela just because you're crazy doesn't mean that we should make life worse for everyone else

[@danielfenner2168]

I live very close to the HS2 line construction, and it’s very unpopular near me and is causing a lot of disruption to local traffic. However it is badly needed, trains from bham to London are always very full and they can’t run anymore trains than they do already. Something does need to be done on the cost of transport though as a 1 way ticket from Bham to Euston is at least £40 on the faster trains, and about £20 on the slow train. Which is a lot when your trying to encourage people to use public transit

[@DylanSargesson]

This video being released on the same day as all trains HS1/Eurostar being completely cancelled due to flooding in the tracks is just iconic.

[@zhappy]

I think Average Speed should be the most important factor instead of the top speed because top speed can only be achieved on certain portions (especially for upgraded rails) and hence average speed reflects a truer picture of a train line. For example Amtrack Acela express has reasonably high top speed of about 150 mph but average speed is quite low due to restrictions on other parts

[@mrvwbug4423]

Yup, Acela can only reach 150mph on 56 miles of the 416 mile NE corridor. There is plenty of 125mph track though, which is why Acela is only about 15min faster than the regular NE Regional which goes 125mph where possible. HS2 is being built like TGV line where high speeds can be maintained almost constantly. Even HS1 in the UK moves extremely quickly for most of the way. 230km/h once they reach the first tunnel and enter TVM territory, and 300km/h for much of the way after the 2nd tunnel

[@gleggett3817]

i always called it "Intercity one two five"

[@peterwilliamallen1063]

Because it was an Inter City Train and did 125 MPH, aca Inter City 125

[@otisreed8799]

In some ways it’s a curse that the existing network in the uk is half way decent with high average speeds…it means the need to upgrade has been less pressing. Although in the future it will be capacity that is the driver of new infrastructure rather than speeds.

[@davidanderson1639]

It’s also worth noting that Eurostar services were planned to extend much further across the UK; I recall seeing the GNER liveried Eurostar at Leeds. While the Channel Tunnel was being planned and constructed in the 1980s, the operation of Eurostar services across Britain was included in the plans. To this end, roughly £320 million was invested into railway infrastructure, including new railway interconnections, depots, and other facilities, as well as the procurement of a dedicated fleet of seven North of London, 14-coach British Rail Class 373/3 trainsets. regional daytime services to Glasgow Central via the East Coast Main Line and Manchester Piccadilly via the West Coast Main Line, and Nightstar sleeper services to the same cities as well as Plymouth and Cardiff via the Great Western Main Line. Trial runs were undertaken using Class 373/2 sets on both the East and West Coast Main Lines in preparation for full-scale services being launched during the late 1990s. Personally, HS2 should never have even been considered. It’s been a huge waste of money; & the impact on those who sold their homes along the route, only to find they aren’t being demolished…..& can’t buy them back is shocking!!

[@toamastar]

I frequently use the existing HS train from Birmingham and its great! I understand the problems that people have with HS2 but i see it as a good thing and it will hopefully take the pressure off Birmingham New Street for those who want to get to the south quickly :)

[@Listenerandlearner870]

The railwsy north of Burmingham will need to be upgraded. It just wont be called HS2. Links to the Midland Mainline and the East Coast Mainline would be helpfull as well.

[@yuhihui1089]

7:17 The Tohoku Shinkansen and Chinese HSR don't reach 225mph (currently)

[@cannedham8630]

For me the ECML and MML upgrades will be very exciting! no its no northern leg of HS2 which i find is absurd that its not going ahead. However MML fully electrified up to Sheffield should allow 125mph most of the way. ECML will be 140mph up to Peterborough and beyond. .Peterborough itself is getting a Reading like refurbishment, like on the GWML will untangle the line and mean more quicker journeys to and from the north.