Roads to Power Will Save (or Sink) CK3

Short speculation video on Roads to Power, the DLC I believe should come after it, and the stakes Paradox is facing with this upcoming release. Enjoy.
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Music:
Garden, Harmony, and Medieval from OSRS OST by Ian Taylor

[@penzorphallos3199]

Balance is dubious., but most ck3 dlcs have added good features. People 'dislike' them because none of them touched the core gameplay: Feudalism is boring, no peerage, no vassal or council intrigue, the tribals are barebones despite being 3/4 of the world gov, nomads dont exist, economy is a 1 to 100 number, no silk road no trade, culture or faith are complex but just timers at the province level, raising levies eternally is fantasy, pope is a bank, no conclave, caliph is a rank, head of faiths are useless, knights and accolades are Marvel heroes, no weather besides winter?, snowballing is too easy, no coalitions, etc man i could go on ...

[@Soul_Tomato]

You need not go on. Definitely the sentiment I think many share. I know I’ve felt it too.

[@WiseElderBull]

@@Soul_Tomato Issue is you play CK3 as a board game. The features that have come from the DLCS are innovative and not ripped from CK2 like you wanted. The creativity that goes into CK3 is exemplary and I wish they would gain more respect. Instead people complain that it is not "LIKE CK222!!1!".

[@ChartreuseDan]

​@@WiseElderBull You are the only person in this thread that mentioned ck2 at all

[@penzorphallos3199]

@@WiseElderBull ck3 on steam has the tags: rpg, simulation, grand strategy. Do you play ck3 like the sims or a first person shooter?

[@Soul_Tomato]

You coming to a CK3 channel dedicated to story telling, sharing mods, and creating unique play throughs and having the audacity to assume I have no creativity in gameplay methods is hilarious

[@waltercommunitycollege1615]

My favorite playthrough in ck2 was playing Ivar the boneless (who starts tribal) and then conquering the entire empire of Britannia and forming a Merchant Republic. That opened up so many avenues for roleplay which simply doesn't exist in ck3.

[@GreenSkinGentleman]

Tribal to Republic is gotta be the most fun playstyles in CK2. I keep doing it as the baltics.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Sounds like a blast

[@imjennasidel6703]

then play ck2

[@anteculjak7447]

Man, I kinda wish that they would obscure the fact that CK3 is a numbers game; make some new cool events, make something that does not give you 100 piety and +5% prestige gain, something that makes the game feel like a medieval game, not a sandbox.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I think hiding those things would go a long way to making it more what you would choose and not whatever is best stat or outcome wise

[@Tom-mk7nd]

I think the issue is about balancing the frequency of events. You don't want to be bombarded by events and too many events would result in habing too many county/character modifiers (possibly further breaking the balance of the game). On the other hand, you want events to be impactful so they can't be devoid of consequences.

[@katieee4915]

I think those things could be obscured until you know about stuff like that How much dev bonus does a certain building give? Well, its "a little" You have the architect trait? Its exactly 5%

[@anteculjak7447]

@@Tom-mk7nd well, I'd like to see events where they dont just give you modifiers, but rather, some kind of wider consequence for a specific character, maybe someone dies at the end of a event chain, maybe through multiple events and multiple choices can lower your legitimacy, maybe give you a hook on a character thats in a faction plotting to overthrow you. I can go on and on. The event window to me is quite annoying. Your 3D model has to show up in the event window, and it does slow down the game if you happen to be bombarded with events. I would actually like to see the old CK2 style paper events make a comeback; with a tiny image of various scenes that set the mood of the event, not the stuffy, bloated event windows we have in CK3

[@Tom-mk7nd]

@@anteculjak7447 those outcomes already exist in the game but I agree that they are too rare.

[@stoutalarm8374]

They definitely need more flavor packs similar to northern lords, that DLC made the Norse culture/cultures way more interesting and unique to play, every culture in Europe feel no different to each other, like a different shade of the same color, adding any kind of diversity to any group of region cultures would help to make each new play through feel very different from the other

[@Soul_Tomato]

I still hold Northern Lords as one of my favorites for the game. It and TT are probably my two favorites tbh

[@GreenSkinGentleman]

I'd pay for more flavor packs per year. One per year isn't enough to flesh out the diverse cultures in the game in a reasonable time. It doesn't have to be an overarching one like the Iberian Struggle and the Iranian Intermezzo, but small ones like the Northern Lords that gives you things to explore is good enough. (Northern Lords is better anyway lol)

[@venus2677]

I personally enjoy FoI and II as well, but the more open-ended nature of Northern Lords is nice. I hope they add a nomadic government type and some flavor to steppe cultures soon. As it stands there isn't really a reason to play in that region.

[@jackochainsaw]

I love the flavour packs, I just wish they'd spread them out evenly. I'm European but I'm very happy to play outside of Europe and have a different experience. I'd love to see India, Africa, Tibet and the Steppe developed. Egypt definitely needs one. It would also be good if the Coptics got some love but there are many places that could be made more unique. They don't have to add a struggle each time either, just a big dump of dialogue, clothing, music, unique decisions, the odd mechanic, a special court role and some new dynasty perks would be fine, I'd happily pay for that. Also it would be good if we had more cultures that introduced a selection of troops. The vikings got so much with Coastal warriors that it really handicaps some of the other cultures nearby.

[@AltroSinefred]

​@@jackochainsaw Totally agree, with India I think we absolutely need a struggle mechanic. I hardly ever play in Europe and mainly stick to NA/ME region, but I would love some love to India and a proper flavour pack for Eastern European nations like Croatia, Bulgaria, etc. That would be awesome.

[@pimmpslap]

The fact that they launched without and still to this day do not have a variation of different government types is criminal. The game is very shallow and there is no variation at all. I used to play campaigns of CK2 back to back to back but I generally only pick this game back up for a campaign once every 2 months or so.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Judging by the player spikes at DLC release of around 10-30k more players according to steam id say you’re not alone in that.

[@Capt.Steele]

Honestly, for veteran players like me that don't have a lot of money, paradox had their last chance about 12 last chances ago. I decided not to buy CK3 when they didn't even remotely fulfill their promise of having everything included in CK2. By the time CK3 matches up to its predecessor it will cost $300+, an impossible cost for many people that don't live in America. With the worsening economic situation in the world, I'm just wondering when the hardcore fanboys will be forced to reevaluate their opinions on paradox's DLC policy like the rest of us. Also based Mount & Blade reference 😎

[@Soul_Tomato]

Yeah the DLC model or rather the price gouging is terrible to put it mildly

[@Zharque]

It's weird, I was more willing to play the game when it had less features. The newly introduced ones at first glance seemed like exactly what the community was asking for, but the execution was just very lacking and impacts the whole experience. Maybe it's better not to have it than to have a bad one, and it is going to sink the game for me if Roads to Power ends up being a disappointment. Based on their track record they have a very low frequency of revisiting old DLC, if they butcher landless gameplay which is one of the few things that keeps me looking forward for the game's future then that might just be it for Crusader Kings for me.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I think it would be very hard for me to continue covering it as a primary aspect of the channel if Roads turns out to be another LOTD

[@XMysticHerox]

Not even just feudal Europe. Feudal anglo-french Europe. Though CK2 had the same issue with feudalism.

[@nobey1kanobey]

I think that people would genuinely care a lot less about there being a mediocre dlc if there wasnt such long waits between these updates, or there was a custodians team. Royal Court and Tours and Tournaments really should have both been in the game at launch. But here we are in 2024 still missing so many core mechanics that CK2 had. By this point into CK2's dev cycle, we had 11 full fledged expansions, starting with Sword of Islam up to Conclave. With CK3, we have 6, and three of those are regional flavor/struggle packs. At this rate, it will take a VERY long time for us to catch up to CK2's content. The stuff they're doing to Roads of Power and Wandering Nobles is very interesting to me on paper, but I am deeply worried at the depth of said mechanics. CK3 would really benefit from a custodians team akin to Stellaris. I think there'd be much more hope and goodwill if Legends got a revamp, royal courts get get more court events, new artifacts and 3d models every patch, etc... These expansions NEED upkeep to justify their price gouged prices of $25 (the price of many good full standalone games). Not to mention as time goes on its going to become very samey if no new activity events are ever added.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Completely agree on the idea of a custodian team. That would be huge for the game.

[@blazeburner303]

I feel like paradox is losing touch with what players of most of their games want, ck2 was a dynastic grand strategy... ck3 is a medieval strategy RPG and it suffers the paradox slog which makes it unbearable to stick around for 8 years while they make it a complete game with 20 DLCs... paradox needs to stop appealing to the royalty life sim role player crowd via 5 million pop ups and shore up the entire gameplay section with their DLCs like paradox does with literally every other title before this

[@Soul_Tomato]

I can’t imagine I’d stick around much longer if I wasn’t a channel dedicated mostly to it tbh. Especially if roads is bad.

[@WiseElderBull]

CK3 is not EU4.

[@blazeburner303]

@@WiseElderBull shut it, bot

[@pimmpslap]

@@WiseElderBull Why is every comment I've seen you type just telling other people their opinion is wrong while offering absolutely nothing valuable to the conversation?

[@GreenSkinGentleman]

I dont even think CK3 is good for roleplaying because it's literally just pre-written events that lose their novelty if you've literally seen it multiple times in a single character's lifetime. It lacks dynamisms in a decisional level to pursue "roleplay" and ironically reduces *actual* roleplay potential. For example, the stupid adamantite event instead of being the same exact event for everyone, it could be a randomized heretical religion or even just a random weirdo religion in general. Then again, I don't think true roleplay should be in events - it should be mechanical expressions and interaction with the world, this is why I like cultural traditions more than court events and that's the only reason why I even like the Royal Court DLC.

[@exospaca]

Game should have released with at least near CK2-parity as far as fundamental functionality. Instead, it had the ability to make your starting character a monster. Much as has happened with Payday 3 and its relationship to Payday 2, by having expensive DLC that don't bring in the good parts of the previous game and instead do things no one is asking for, players are left playing the game that has what they want and not the new one - denying developers and publishers the money they want. Islam, Buddhism, Paganism, Astaru, Orthodoxy, Catholicism... Should all have very real ramifications to governance and play. Nomads, Imperials, Holy Roman Imperials, Kingdoms, Princedoms, Petty Kingdoms, Tribals, Republics of various types... We should have started with them all and they should have mattered. If the sequel is not a superiour product, there is no pull to buy it.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I didn’t used to think it mattered as much but the second paragraph I definitely agree with. It’s not an opinion I’m proud to previously have had but I for sure see the light that we’ve been a bit duped. I do like CK3 (obviously) I just want it to be better.

[@l4nd3r]

The thing is, that's not true. More people play CK 3 than those who played CK 2. Just look at the steam charts, even the daily players have a huge gap and CK 2 base game is free to play...

[@Poiuymew]

New in depth mechanics would be great to see. We have enough funny pop-ups. Give me something to sink my teeth into!

[@Soul_Tomato]

Agreed

[@S3Cs4uN8]

What Throwymew said.

[@nobey1kanobey]

New Anbennar and praising of the cube when

[@_alexdez8053]

I don't think the game is dying, or "being saved" anytime soon, i think it will stay in that range of quality

[@Soul_Tomato]

Probably a bit of hyperbole on my part but I know personally I wouldn’t play much longer if roads fails

[@_alexdez8053]

@@Soul_Tomato yeah I can understand why. But I don't think road to power, even if it is done perfectly, would be that game changing. Because it's not trying to affect the core gameplay of most regions (only Byzantine will be really affected), but it's adding new things. It's like putting 18 sauces on a steak, it won't save it if the steak is burned. Because even if road to power really succeeds, it will just add a unlanded phase to the game, without changing the core aspects that need to be changed the most : economy (via trade) and warfare

[@Soul_Tomato]

Thankfully I play modded so it would be huge for that if it’s a good system but I definitely understand

[@_alexdez8053]

@@Soul_Tomato oh same I started playing modded quite recently so that would be good for me too. But that's not the dlc that will save core ck3. Trade would

[@Lakadaisy_and_Foghorn]

I'm really curious if Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar will get a boost in the new DLC, given that he's already related to an achievement and has his own legend seed

[@Soul_Tomato]

I think he was confirmed as one of the ones they were planning content for

[@Crazy_Based_Mf]

Hey announced on my birthday :)

[@Soul_Tomato]

Oh happy birthday friend

[@Crazy_Based_Mf]

@@Soul_Tomato thank you my man :)))

[@jameslail6930]

All the promised features honestly sound great. A new start date alone will do wonders, but estates and such were always my favorite part of CK2, and why i played Merchant Republics so often.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I hope they deliver because it could be great

[@GeanAmiraku]

Will it really sink if it fails? I'm wondering because I don't really see many medieval family strategy roleplaying storytelling sims out there. I wish there was some competition, I just don't see anything I could play instead if the roads to power fail. Even if it is unplayable, I'll just roll back to a previous version and go on playing the game I enjoy. "Rome:Imperator" seems to have failed mostly because it is kind of a mix of other paradox games, but other games do better at things it borrowed from them. And Vicky3... is just factorio with maps, isn't it? I mean, I like it, I just hit the roof every time my government fails to vote for new laws at 90% success chance with three setbacks in a row.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I think it would honestly. You can only underperform so many times, plus the next dlc is lackluster in comparison to roads so it would be a pretty long wait between wandering nobles and another dlc (generally seems about 6 months between chapters)

[@Capt.Steele]

As someone who has refused to make the migration from CK2 to CK3 because of the lack of quality, I assume if they continue to underperform people are literally just going to go back to the previous title, to say nothing of the people that are still waiting for it to get better so they can actually buy it.

[@GeanAmiraku]

@@Soul_Tomato I don't... I don't even find it underperforming, tbh. Flawed -- yes, sure, but I don't expect it to be flawless, they seem to be experimenting a lot with ck3 and making plenty of risky desisions. I still enjoy the new features and the most important thing to me is whether I still want to play the game. And I'm not sure either of us can estimate player satisfaction very well. I, for one, am terrified to write anything positive even in the comments here, lest I get bullied into oblivion for liking the wrong things and being too much of a fangirl :D Let alone leaving steam reviews. Although I suppose I should if I enjoy the roads to power. Being able to play landless was something I've been dreaming of since ck2, and the mod that does it wasn't really playable to me.

[@williamdowsett3350]

trade with landless would be so fun, being a traveler of the silk road would be awesome.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Trade I think as a merchant adventurer would be smart to add

[@Rikard_A]

The sack of Constantinopel was such a shitstorm. The attack on Constantinopel wasn't just to repay Venice. The crusader choice in attacking Constantinopel was to install Alexios IV Angelos after Alexios III Angelos had removed The former emperor Isaac II Angelos. The fourth crusade was a shitstorm. But one note you should know is that the majority if the crusaders did not partake in the attack on Constantinopel but continued to the city of Acre.

[@sl6706]

If they just opened the modding for this game completely the ck3 modding community would have this game whipped into shape fast.

[@Soul_Tomato]

??? They do have that though? Modders have access to basically everything and even make new features all the time.

[@jewishbagel6065]

My issue is that paradox sold a game that simply had less content than the predecessor. And now they are filling it with DLC which is way too little way to late.

[@evalationx2649]

CA hasn't "turned the ship from the rocks" lol. Need to see your reasoning on that one.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I said if they want to not that they have

[@Dream11Walker]

the issue with this DLC is that customers are expected to pay money for a DLC that was a DLC for the prior game. Then unfortunately the prior DLCs have been bad to annoyingly tedious. I've moved on from CK3. Looking back on the game, it is a game that I don't think was ever good. It should have had most if not all the features of the DLCs from CK2. I think you should be critical of Paradox, unless you want them to end up like Creative Assembly. To be honest, it looks to be to late to save the game but I think Creative Assembly would be a different company if players (mostly KZbinr shills) would have kept the pressure going when they made extremely poor decisions.

[@chrisdafurr]

Yea if this fails then I’m done supporting ck3 and will just be praying that eu5 turns out decent. I think the biggest issue ck3 suffers from is a lack of flavor stop making everything a struggle mechanic and actually invest in new government types/flavour mechanics for different cultures or regions; I can’t believe they turned Persia into to just another struggle mechanic!

[@sirnetflix7162]

I swear, if it wasn't for mods like Princes of Darkness and the ones you've mentioned, I don't know how involved I would be in the game. I kinda just got all the achievements and then stuck almost exclusively to modded versions.

[@Soul_Tomato]

All the achievements is pretty impressive ngl. Some of them are pretty nuts

[@sirnetflix7162]

@@Soul_Tomato I would thank Tarkus for making an excellent guide on getting most of them in a fast manner, I did many on my own but he definitely helped me do some way faster.

[@buddybelford9560]

Bro I'm sorry but if you're a PC complaining about the 6-month Gap get a life. Is literally console players have been sitting around wondering what the f*** like where's our update. The amount of complaining I've heard from PC players is ridiculous considering the fact that you guys are still getting content in regular updates. Especially considering the console literally only has 3 DLCs. 🤔 Look how many DLCs at PC has and you guys are still complaining 😑. PS for the guy that owns this channel keep up the good work man love your channel 👍🏾.

[@jackochainsaw]

What bugs me is that whilst this will be a good DLC (I sense it will) there will be issues. I'm not big into the Byzantines. A lot of people like them for two reasons, they have the most central position on the map and they are the most powerful at the beginning of the game (which permits easy map painting) with the most baked in flavour from the get go. I'm not a byzanto-whore/phile so the fact that it feels like they had to bow to the noisy community on giving them this bugs me. We could have had something more interesting but this is what we got. That said there are some new mechanics that look cool. The adventure one is the one I'm most excited by, but I also like the sound of some of the personal estate stuff you can do so it would tempt me to give it a whirl. I'm a bit mid on it to be honest. I feel like both Legacy of Persia and Legends of the dead came out a bit lumpy from the oven and if they rush it again this will one will come out a bit dicey as well. What also bugs me is that when these drop, they aren't finished properly, so will we have all of the hotfix updates that we did last time. Will the balance be borked again? I'm not sure on this. As the Byzantine Empire (ERE or Byzantium as it is otherwise known) is so central, big changes to it could unsettle the balance in the campaign, which you could argue could be a great thing or a terrible thing depending on what way it goes.

[@Soul_Tomato]

A lot to ponder with that. I’ve never played there so I’m curious to try and work my way through the ranks but we will see

[@frankiecedeno3724]

Yeah man, the DLCs have all been solid, I’ve have little complaints about any of them. The real problem is how slow they’re released. If we got 4 or 5 flavor packs similar to Northern Lords in a year this game would pop tf off.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I think that’s probably not far off. When I made my review of chapter 2 I’m fairly certain I mentioned that if they leaned into more flavor content vs stuff like friends and foes the game would be much better

[@jackochainsaw]

If they had a year dedicated to flavour packs, they would clean up. If they followed the same path of adding a unique mechanic each time, all of the art and music, they would make bank. If anything they would benefit by having a team solely doing flavour packs end to end. Then another team doing the other DLC (Expansion, Core, Story). I realise its not as simple as that but it would definitely get the CK3 heart beating properly. The community shouts out exactly what the game is lacking. They are just very slow in getting to it.

[@mismatchedsocks2343]

I have over 1000+ hours in CK3. I was one of the biggest defenders from naysayers over the years but it’s gotten to a point where everything is stale. When there is so many good games out there including some in Paradox’s own library CK3 just isn’t rising to the top of the playlist anymore. I haven’t played it for more than 10-15 hrs since the last DLC so I’m hoping this one will at least renew some interest

[@Soul_Tomato]

I was right there with you. I mean one of my most viewed videos on the channel is basically a defense of it in comparison to CK2 at the same age. But I’d be lying if its lack of variety hasn’t worn on me recently.

[@goldenmairon2371]

I just want more events that relate to my family instead of them being just a resource to spend.

[@MundusMeus974]

I think for me it goes further than features alone. Atmosphere is a huge part in what, (in my opinion) is responsible for making Ck2 as good as it is. Music and sound design tangentially can make or break a game like this and I don't feel like Ck3 has the atmosphere it needs. Neither the music or sound design are as impactful or memorable to me as in Ck2. Not to mention that after four years we still don't have republics, anything similar to societies or anything like that, ik that's a tired argument but I'm just... Idk, I'm kinda done with Ck3.

[@mustafaemirkarakurt2158]

This game seriously needs a good custodian team.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Wouldn’t hurt

[@onemoreminute0543]

Venice during the Fourth Crusade: *we do a little trolling*

[@Soul_Tomato]

A simple plundering if you will

[@basedyannis]

the OSRS music is a good choice

[@Soul_Tomato]

Thanks! An all timer

[@scoopsmcgoo5511]

I’m at the point that the game is borderline unplayable due to the constant event/popup spam for stupid shit like farting events or that pet event that bombards you with mor events for eternity. Might be a hot take(I’m not much of an RPER) but Tours and Tournaments did nothing but bombard me with events and notifications that I didn’t care about and forced me to spam left click through. Another great idea ruined by the CK3 team

[@Soul_Tomato]

I quite like TT, especially coupled with mods like AGOT, but I could see how people wouldn’t.

[@irfanwafiy816]

Hmmm idk about the dlc but i hope they dont flop the landless part cause thats the core selling point. The other dlc is abit lack in depth in terms gameplay just numbers game nothing adds to the story just oh you have this legacy that gives some bonus. It will be cool tho if the AI reply to your message and refers to you as the legacy title maybe idk. Just spouting nonsense right now hahaha. Looking forward for lore video.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Nonsense is fine, which this wasn’t, but it’s always welcome

[@meister9416]

Yes, those pop-up windows are too much to handle.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Just too many although it seems the new update will have options to reduce them

[@StridentVoice84]

I think fixing the console would help the 5% of player base

[@Soul_Tomato]

The console stuff is a whole other can of worms. It’s nuts how behind it is but didn’t they switch the people porting it?

[@StridentVoice84]

@@Soul_Tomato I just dont know but they aren’t doing much considering I can play for 20mins without it crashing and potentially deleting my save

[@MildPsychedelic]

They seem to suffer a dilemma of whether to focus on historical gameplay or roleplaying. Picking one side upsets the other, but trying to include both is leaving both sides unsatisfied. Given they're the ones handling the source code, it would make more sense to focus on new gameplay mechanics and roleplaying opportunities unavailable to modders. We already know from the community that historical immersion mods are easily made, and somewhat more accurate to the game than what the devs make.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I see the png and already know a fellow fallen eagle fan

[@jackochainsaw]

The problem is the play button. As soon as you hit it, you are moving into "ahistorical" waters. Unless you scripted the entire game from end to end with historical events, you are not going to get a "true" historical game. Functioning gameplay mechanics are what we want. Roleplaying opportunities do add the flavour. I think they should do more like what they did recently with the starter characters. Giving them some more dialogue and special decisions was a good move. That way you cut some kind of historical path but with some alternative options which take you off the track.

[@hopeundertheblacksun]

If this dlc adds a lot of flavor to Byzantium,i think CK3 is saved

[@Soul_Tomato]

Idk if that’s enough but if the new government system is cool and unique I think it’ll hold us over for a bit

[@ksiazechorwacji4445]

For me, the biggest drawback of CK3 is its repetitiveness and the fact that it is too predictable.

[@mmdrezakh]

praying on paradox's downfall 🙏🏿

[@mangekyoulife7676]

Console edition has been completely broken for a year straight now

[@NeroNemion]

Have you given Knights of Honor 2 a fair chance? I just recently played it and a lot of character focused features that I personally feel like they lack in CK3 are in KoH2. I would highly appreciate it if Paradox gets CK3 content out more quickly.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Not heard of it until this moment. May have to check it out

[@loudradialem5233]

Maybe it's better to learn from their mistakes and start developing CK4...

[@Felipe-yv4bc]

Isn't CK3 their most played game right now? It doesn't make any financial sense for them to abandon it, even if this next dlc bombs

[@Kurowll]

yeah EU4 is full of shitty dlc release and still arround

[@tontsa77]

Ck3 needs more events. Traveling, tournaments and tours become quickly so repetitive

[@Soul_Tomato]

The last of the chapter 3 dlcs seems to be addressing that specifically

[@jjkillerxx7192]

I saw the overwhelmingly negative reviews on steam for the past few dlcs and just didnt get them. I hear legends of the dead was especially bad.

[@texastacoss]

it really isn't, people just expect more

[@jjkillerxx7192]

@texastacoss well I guess you are part of the 37% that liked it then? Idk to me if it sets a high expectation and doesn't deliver then that kinda means it's bad.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Legends has some good elements to it but the plagues are overturned and legends are basically worthless minus some that give you claims - which are then busted.

[@mrXOwarrior]

I could care less about having republics in CK3. Boring.

[@ismayonez6865]

From the perspective of someone who never played CK2, it doesn't feel like CK3 lacks any major features. A lot of systems could be expanded, sure, but it doesn't feel unfinished or boring 😅

[@christoperwallace6197]

It will neither make nor break it. It's silly to suggest so

[@Hunter-ep7zp]

Sink or swim? The game is good as it is. One bad dlc wont make it fail. Epic fail vid mate

[@l4nd3r]

Realistically speaking, this doom talk is not what the majority of the fanbase thinks so, more people play CK 3 than they played CK 2.

[@sizanogreen9900]

I don't really get the general sentiment towards LOTD... I haven't had any negative experiences with it and a lot of fun instead...

[@Soul_Tomato]

The legend system is, imo, kind of pointless fluff? And the plague system spams so much once you become an empire you’re basically bleeding legitimacy every year. That’s been my experience anyway. I’ve turned it down a lot so it happens less now though.

[@sizanogreen9900]

@@Soul_Tomato Well I have the same feelings towards legends. But I LOVE the plague system. I've had it on the increased setting while playing with the Dark Ages mod and was pretty satisfied with the general experience... But yeah, legends were terrible now that I think about it.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I do LIKE the plagues, just not the frequency.

[@MrWayne976]

@@Soul_Tomato frequency and events with the healer are uninteresting and seem incomplete.

[@pimmpslap]

Plagues have been negligible on default settings in my experience, aside from notification spam anytime it spreads to a new barony which is constantly lmao. They could have just made it so it gives an audio queue when a plaque enters the realm and put a notification on the plaque UI element down on the bottom right. As for legends I only use them occasionally for the OP decisions they give you but mostly I use them for the free building slots while playing tall.

[@davidcoquelle3081]

Whiny baby

[@Soul_Tomato]

Comprehension of a stone on this one

[@mr_camillion1955]

Console players just asking for any sort of news at all lmao

[@Soul_Tomato]

Yeah truth

[@kronos197]

The fact that you will have to worry about food and the landless camp gives me hopes that the landless experience won't simply be staying afk and clicking the event options with most green numbers until you get landed like it was in CK2 Rise to Power mod.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Idk if we can assume you won’t have to worry considering that screenshot shows them with a party of 3 and that much food but perhaps it’s a placeholder for now or perhaps food is also used as an upgrade material?

[@celwenileran2135]

It's modern paradox. Please, you have way too positive outlook on it. It will be you waiting for events to happen while trading resources for food. Paradox doesn't yet get that they have to add more interaction to make their games interesting. Their idea of fun is you waiting until something happens.

[@Whiskers4169]

@@celwenileran2135so instead of hoping for good things we have to be overly pessimistic about everything? What is this, politics?

[@christoperwallace6197]

​@@Whiskers4169right?

[@1451Danny]

Man i hope its good. Im just excited for landless gameplay, I think it really goes for ck3's rpg experience

[@Soul_Tomato]

I think so too. If it works well it’ll fully set itself apart in the genre.

[@shiny1556]

I just worry that we are all overhyping what effectively could just be a barony system. I am not a total doomer and I do think the game can recover (ck2 on launch compared to today is completely different) but it just worries me that I expect more. I am an entirely modded player, rarely touching the actual Feudal Old World scenario, but I do want it to succeed. I want to be a Hedge Knight who is able to land themselves or a trickster who is able to become emperor. I just hope it actually works out as I hope. If nothing else we can leave it to mods to make it fun. Holding out for Elder Kings to allow landless players to try to become the Nerevarine.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Come Moon and Star

[@johnquach8821]

Let's hope this expansion is good...

[@Soul_Tomato]

I’m holding my thumbs

[@calimerohnir3311]

I had never tried CK2 before but I finally decided to have a stab at it the other day. Well I can't deny that it's an ugly ass game and its UI is downright prehistoric when compared to ck3 but even after just 5 hours of gameplay it's so much deeper. -Vassals get pissed of if you keep their troops raised -troops being raised from each individual counties (instead of each ruler getting his deathblob anywhere he wants) -Societies -Ships -The council actually has an agenda and the personality of your councillors matters -so many more kingdom laws (instead of just succession law and crown authority) -more flavor events bakied into regular play (even just getting a physician is way more interesting: I restarted the game to see a few possibilities and got a crazy nun licking the boils off of the sick; a blind jewish mystic and a possible wizard getting a stay of execution for joining my court) -The personality of your character isn't static : My character got a random event giving him the Lustful trait for sleeping with his wife during pregnancy (You can't get something like that in CK3 outside of stress events) -council of cardinals -saints -county focus And that's all within a 5 hour cursory overview mainly spent fiddling with the UI and the map modes. I haven't even touched the vikings, republics or nomads just yet.

[@calimerohnir3311]

Many of these mechanics or flavor events could be added back to CK3 with little to no hasstle. i don't understand why they haven't done it yet. Raising troops localy for example is a no brainer

[@Liberater4589]

I think looking at paradox broadly at the moment makes me optimistic, I dunno if it was the catalyst or just the first but ever since the city skylines 2 dlc fiasco it seems like paradox as a company is taking a big step back and recalibrating how it does releases and dlc and just the whole production process, it’s not a coincidence it took this long for a release date for roads to power to come out (and being so far away) and at the same time spheres of influence gets delayed, city skylines 2 gets a whole… reset? And eu 5 starts getting unofficial dev diaries and close community interaction and being highly receptive to community feedback, it’s clear something is going on and I’m hopeful it’s for the better

[@Soul_Tomato]

It does feel a bit like what CA did and then they delayed thrones for several months so perhaps you’re right.

[@scoobydoo2587]

Genuinely the only reason I'm playing this game are the mods. It's just not an enjoyable experience without. CK2 had its issues but the base game still had shit tons of varied content to explore. It seems like that just isn't the case with CK3. And then Paradox adds something like plagues, which were already extremely annoying and unfun in CK2 and they somehow manage to make it even worse. I'm not so sure their current path is the right one to take. I think this next DLC will decide if they made the right decision or if most of the past four years of development have practically been for naught. So many of the added mechanics so far are pretty but more annoying than enjoyable because they lack variety.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Mods and their teams and communities are def a huge saving grace for a lot of paradox games - maybe not HOI4 but we don’t talk about them

[@LunaMoon0]

I hope that there will be a mod that allows a feudal state to have a house next to its domain for roleplay reasons. Like the old ck2 Mod.

[@Soul_Tomato]

That could be cool

[@blackfire152fire9]

I think next year’s dlcs should focus on governments, trade, and religions. Like you said in the video the biggest problem with the games government system is that most just feel like European feudalism with just a random culture paint on them, we need more variety in the government system. Trade could be added along side new governments like republics due to how big they were on trade, plus in general how big trade was in the medieval ages. Religion has always been a bit of a gripe for me, the tenets can be fun when making a custom religion, but my biggest problem with the system is how so many religion groups don’t feel like they have enough unique to them

[@Soul_Tomato]

I would be more than happy if those three were the DLC focus

[@TheEbicMaster]

Yeah, I don’t have high hopes, 4 years of expensive nothing burger dlc and every country still plays the same.

[@Soul_Tomato]

We shall see

[@korgalis]

yep i will buy it but if it will be bad i think that it will be the last ck3 dlc i will buy. I stopped playing regulary like 2 dlc's ago and while the persia one was ok for what it was, the dlc come slowly and are expensive while not fixing the core gameplay no tribal content no deeper religius mechanics only fluff and all dlc's feel self contained and badly conected with what came before.

[@Soul_Tomato]

We shall see

[@steveharvold]

I'm admittedly an almost exclusive Euro Christian player, so stuff like landless, republics, nomads, etc. don't excite me too much, but I am optimistic about Roads to Power. If they pull off the Byzzie rework (hoping and praying), I'll be eager to see them flesh out the HRE and Papacy in time. The HRE at least has a little bit more going for it than the current ERE thanks to princely elective, but otherwise it's still just a pretty bland representation of imo the most fascinating polity of the age. I'd kill to see stuff like the Imperial Diet, electoral bargaining, restrictions on forming kingdom titles (sick of seeing Lothringia, Burgundy, and Italy all form within a century of a 1066 start), and maybe even a better reflection of the itinerant court than the current mechanics allow. And the Papacy as it stands is dreadful, a glorified slot machine. I want to see investiture (for ecclesiastic and secular titles), coronations, anti-popes, and papal mediation between warring Catholics. Even as a shameless Eurocentric, I do agree that CK3 suffers greatly from every region, religion, government type, etc. basically playing like a reskinned European feudal monarchy. The flip side of that is that even among European feudal monarchies, things are too homogenous and boring. We need more Northern Lords-style DLCs, content focused on expanding specific areas of the game rather than just adding more universal (often bland or obscure) mechanics. Ultimately I have faith in Paradox to leave us with a good final product- late-era CK2, EU4, and Stellaris are all fantastic games- but with the current pace of DLCs, I'm not looking forward to having to wait the better part of a decade to get there.

[@Soul_Tomato]

It kinda dawned on me when I went to play a vanilla campaign that I almost exclusively gravitate to northern lords areas because it actually has flavor

[@zawojtek]

IMO CK3 has 2 Huge problems originating from before lunch that really crippled game... and its effects we see now... 1) Poor game direction and lack of Flexibility. From my perspective ck3 looks like some high up managers have looked at some numbers gathered from ck2 development cycle created plan on how game should be developed for even few years after lunch and gave this plan to devs and said "Execute it" and forbid to deviating from it. Unfortunately predicting what people want few years in to the future usually ends up badly... Imo that's why for fist 2 chapters most of DLC's were nothing fans wanted and devs couldn't do anything about it coz "Plan needs to be executed"... Plan evidently didn't worked and now they don't have any clear vision for the game so they started frantically responding to complines players had since day one. Quickly "fixing" things without further plan. Like plages that are just not fun to play with but added them since they were requested... 2)I know it my sound like HERESY for most of CK3 players but IMO CK3 has TOO BIG MAP... Devs have limited time, resources ect. before lunch so there was no way that devs could give justice to all regions of the world so they had to create core systems that will "kinda" work everywhere... That's why gameplay feels so diluted. No mater if its southern India or northern England core system needs to work for both. So how you do it ? You need to strip most cultural differences that make them unique and place something sterile and artificial. That's why cultural DLCs are so praised... they add uniqueness in place of this favourless slop that bounds all those different cultures together. By reducing map they wouldn't have to make compromises to fit core mechanics to soo many different cultures and focus on mechanics working well with games real point of interest... "Crusader Kings" I kinda doubt anyone buying game called "Crusader Kings" will attribute title with Tibetan kingdoms or central African tribes... but maybe its just me since NEVER play outside of Europe or "Islamic world"

[@celwenileran2135]

CK3 lacks interaction. Paradox's idea of gameplay is to create cheap events that even AI could write, slap them together, add triggers for them and call it a day. Let the player experience them by waiting. Let player interact with others by waiting for events to happen. When was the last time they added PLOTS? When was the last time they added schemes? Why does being on council do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING beside some modifiers. Where are the events, interactions, special powers you get for being a councillor? Why does only regent have to have special events and powers? You know why Tours and Tournaments is so good? It added interactions and ways to influence the world. It was great. Compare that to Legends of the dead which is a waiting simulator with mediocre rewards. I have no hope for CK3 until developers get their shit together and actually start adding more player interaction.

[@quiquemarquez3211]

Completely agree mate, the same events over and over make the experience bland, you end up being there for your own gameplay carving your own stories but beyond that for the base feudal game Paradox offered very little. And indeed the council is a joke.

[@wilhelm7450]

Let's hope this dlc isn't going to fumble like LOTD.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Idk if the game would survive if that’s the case

[@wilhelm7450]

​@@Soul_TomatoWhat is your opinion about Project Caesar?

[@Soul_Tomato]

Idk if we know enough about for me to say

[@nicholaswhitman4620]

The biggest thibg for me is that the Byzantine flavor updates better be good. Playthrough definingly good. I don't want the Eastern Roman Empire to be the richest feudal in the european backwater, they need to feel like Rome.

[@Lost-Mind]

I found Legends of the Dead to be meh. I hope that Road to Power will be good. I usually don't play with mods with Paradox games. I hope the Byzantine Empire administration system will be good. I missed the Republic system and nomadic, but I do miss the trade system. I hope this DLC will be good, I missed CK2 with it stuff, despite its jank.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I hope it’s good too. We shall see

[@LamiaHajBrahim-u4q]

They should bring back the old building systems and raised army system and it will improve the game greatly

[@Soul_Tomato]

I hear this often. I’d welcome at least a toggle option for it

[@TheZerech]

I am optimistic, either way, for me mods are really the saving grace anyways, and if Imperator is now fun due to mods-CK3 will be fine in the worst case scenario. Ideally though, of course, this dlc slaps and subsequent DLCs focus on Republics and Nomads, who are dying for a big rework. I didn't play Republics much in CK2, but they were a great addition. Not adding trade is baffling, its in mods already. Pdox is embarrassing itself the longer such a crucial aspect of medieval life is absent. I agree with your assessment.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I also think modders would hold the game up without paradox - since they’ve already done so much with what we have.

[@TheZerech]

@@Soul_Tomato More Bookmarks, Godherja, AtE, Bronze Age, etc. these mods have been holding CK3 up from day one more or less, like many Pdox games lmao

[@HansWurst1569]

Idk with the new dev update for EU5, I still think for some reason EU5 will be a better medieval strategy game than CK3. But this update will probably be a good one but its too little too late. I think CK3 will probably be abanodoned too. Atleast by me. And I'm a big fan. The features feel childish or something, not sure how to explain. But there already is barely any strategy in this game and what is left of the strategy is waterd down to bigger number beats smaller number haha my family tree is a circkle. I hate it. Trade is a MUST for any respectable medieval simulator. its honestly as if they're ignoring their historical advisors or just have people who dont care about history in their team. So many mistakes and weird choices have been made for this game. The enitre game feels childish.

[@Soul_Tomato]

It’s def made to appeal to a wider audience but little is done to appeal to old fans of late

[@YapsiePresents]

Seriously CA and Paradox should've learn to give players what they want back in 2022 and 2023 and not tease us for years while giving lack luster dlcs. Wasted development time and opportunity cost

[@Soul_Tomato]

At least it SEEMS CA and Paradox are making moves to fix it. The new TW:W3 DLC was pretty good

[@smashishere]

im excited for landless, i love storylines of rising from nothing to power, landless + agot would be so sick, going from a nobody and then somehow you get access to a dragon, wreck the nobility in westeros and unite it

[@gunner6233]

doesnt matter ill still play this slop for 15 hours a day

[@Soul_Tomato]

God speed John Crusader Kings

[@realdaggerman105]

@@Soul_TomatoJohn III Crusader Kings*

[@guillaumebouthillette6999]

Make or break or save or sink ?? Bro I actually have 3266.9 hours played on CK3 and 447 hours on CK2 also I’m not talking about Stellaris or EU, CK3 is a Solid 87%. With all DLC’s for every game except EU 4. I don’t like the legend system from Legends of the dead DLC. CK3 needs more Northern Lords like DLC

[@borginburkes1819]

They just need to make the game harder and make the AI more active. Every game of CK3 plays exactly the same and it’s frustrating

[@Soul_Tomato]

Mods do a good job of this but the base game might as well be a ghost town half the time

[@Deboo-oz2rb]

The AI is really brain dead when William takes the crown of England. Phillip never tries to take the duchy of Normandy back. I had to pay the pope for a claim and give it back to him. Playing as a vassal is way more hard not because of the restrictions, but your liege is always an idiot.

[@lithographer]

sure I'm optimistic and of course i want ck3 to be great... now quick help me inflate this liferaft.

[@Soul_Tomato]

I hear copium is a great flotation device

[@lithographer]

@@Soul_Tomato the rising copium lifts all boats or something.

[@DenisPereira]

its the last dlc i will buy from paradox if it flops..

[@Soul_Tomato]

Let’s hope it doesn’t. It would be a wonderful addition

[@Capt.Steele]

Please my brother just wait for the reviews to come out before buying. Pre-orders and day one purchases are the main reason why these companies feel so comfortable giving us garbage. Affect their bottom line if you want real change 😤

[@mementomori771]

Hate to say it but the only part if this dlc thats exciting is landless play I wish they were just selling that for $10

[@Soul_Tomato]

It could potentially be part of the free update but I would be surprised if

[@mementomori771]

@@Soul_Tomato no way they're going to do all that work for free lol

[@pacmaxer8206]

Some more diversity and immersion, First of all realism would be what I Wish for ck3.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Yeah they have said in the past that was their aim but that seems to be contradictory to the actual game

[@Joseph-ql6ly]

I feel mods made them lazy in a sense.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Ah the Bethesda effect

[@Dino_Stan]

I think ck3 should add more ways to change your government, kinda like religions and culture. As a king I feel that you have too little ways to actual rule.

[@Soul_Tomato]

A good point

[@colebehnke7767]

Yeah, I stoped caring with the release of Tours & Tournaments. That DLC made me see everything that CK3 could be, and everything it was not.

[@Soul_Tomato]

Heavy but fair

[@colebehnke7767]

@@Soul_Tomatoyeah, I kinda want to get into game development to make what I saw, a true 4x RPG.

[@RubberToeYT]

Landless and new start date look really good although I expect theyll both be a part of free update, looking forward to new Byzantine mechanics

[@Soul_Tomato]

I’m curious what will be in the free update actually

[@RubberToeYT]

@@Soul_Tomato I’m not fully sure but if they follow the pattern of previous content like legends of dead where major mechanics like plague were in the free update, just not as flushed out, then I’d expect some versions of major mechanics like being landless and hopefully the new start date too

[@venus2677]

@@RubberToeYT I think it would be better to have landless gameplay either fully free (unlikely) or completely behind paying for the DLC. I can't imagine where you would divide it in two without severely compromising the free version or making the paid part little more than cosmetic. I think estates are better for the free update, assuming, as many have speculated, that they will be a big part of CK3s version of republics.

[@gamerxxgaming7075]

Byzantine? You mean Roman

[@kalcuthbert6829]

I'm not sure how CK3 could sink..... the games amazing. I'm maybe on my 15th playthrough... already got my moneys worth 10 times over.

[@gunnarwallgren8572]

You’re so right about about how mechanical it all feels. With no real variance between the current government types gameplay is absolutely crippled in comparison to CK2. It’s such a shame it took them this long to (maybe) finally add the features which gave CK2 so much replay value

[@Soul_Tomato]

We shall see what they do once roads to power releases

[@Kurowll]

What bother me the most with CK3 is that the AI is passive as hell, it's never a danger without the player messing things up. I have to restrain myself from using mechanics to have any kind of challenge. Sometimes it's seem more like playing with a doll house and creating the challenge and story in your head than playing a video-game. Even when i force myself to make bad moves and set up an interesting succession crisis, most of the time nothing happen and everything is back to normal in one war, i killed commonners that were rotting in my jail and my vassals are too afraid to make any moves/alliance that could overthrow me. The player have too many get out of jail free cards Most of the game is reading meaningless event that result in a stress modifier and pretending something happened

[@joe-mn4ln]

The only reason I play this game is mods, all they really had to do was copy DLCs from ck2. These DLCs are lackluster and bore me. Ive put thousands of hours into ck2 and other paradox games but now i'm just fatigued with this company.

[@kurozumi9834]

I feel like Ck3 just lacks flavour. It's too much of a number's game and has too many systems to block the player even though it's useless since it's not a competitive game. I'm tryna get immersed and roleplay here, not minmax shit.

[@fufutul3258]

I don't know...I really enjoy this game. I love how you can say f all and literally bring a demon to life and just change the history of cultures, faiths, etc... I wish they would release more things that could alternate history in my opinion. Im really into experimenting

[@swanswanswanswanswanswanswan]

i REALLY dont want paradox to fuck this up

[@Soul_Tomato]

Same tbh

[@Augustus_Imperator]

I got royaI court, fate of iberia and tours & tournaments, honestIy I far prefer ck2, not sure I'm going to pIay ck3 much going on

[@MrAjel12]

RuneScape Music in the background is so underrated.

[@alphanoodle1877]

"Why is Ck2 so much better!' Me peering over at the 100 plus DLC that cost 300 hundred dollars total

[@bayfox1]

After roads to power we need Roman Empire and Horse Lords dlc.