Rob Brown on The Importance of Gigs, Whether Feel Can Be Taught, and The Future of YouTube Drumming

[@RobBeatdownBrown]

Thanks for having me on, brutha 👊🏽🙂

[@8020drummer]

@@RobBeatdownBrown my pleasure! Thanks for the great convo!

[@dairyairman]

That was a very interesting, almost philosophical video. I'm a big watcher of Rob Brown videos. He has so much practical, no-nonsense advice coming from all his stage, church, and studio experience. I was very interested by his take on the time vs. feel discussion. I like his analogy to the art of comedy. With comedy either you're funny or you're not funny. Being funny is not something that can be learned. Feel is like that too, but maybe not quite to the extent of comedy. I think you can listen to drummers who have excellent feel or groove and learn something from them. Learning feel and groove is not hopeless.

[@davidgomersall7185]

Two of the You Tube OGs, having a conversation and dropping truths...

[@WSBM]

This interview is amazingly informative even if you don’t play drums or play music at all.

[@Neal_Schier]

Excellent comment! It is, among other things, a great peek into how musicians work and communicate.

[@glenspringle7337]

"Sesspool of low quality content"... Got to love that quote

[@jasonrobley2109]

You guys are the only drum instructors i watch, cool to see you together. Thanks for the cool content

[@tommyzcat]

Same!

[@frankgardner7533]

Great discussion guys, thanks! One idea that I got from the great Joe Hunt at Berklee regarding feel was to "dance" behind the drums. His point was getting the feel of the rhythm "inside our body" would facilitate a natural outward expression. Helped me a lot.

[@tommyzcat]

Peart wrote about Gruber teaching him the same philosophy in Ghost Rider.

[@fede170493]

The encounter of two Drum Titans.

[@MiddleMalcolm]

Fantastic chat you guys! 👍 Rob's analogy about the joke VS the delivery of the joke was a beautiful observation. Your groove develops with your collected experiences, the same way comedians develop their style, by absorbing their craft. Love that. ❤️ You can learn the notes, or the joke, but the way it comes out will always be individual.

[@rarianfields]

Nice talk! Really dig the language analogy. To add on to it if I may: think about the verbose guy who loves to use big words all the time when they're not necessary. How does it make you feel? What about the person who can say a lot with a few words? There's a time and a place for everything ofc, but the big flashy fastest stuff tends to burn itself out pretty quick. Better to hint at there being much more and leave them wanting more. That's the key to longevity. Last point: Who are the most sampled drummers in the world? That electronic and hiphop artists use to give the power and head nod factor to their tracks? Stubblefield, Starks, Purdie, Gadson etc. Ever hear any of them do a 20min solo? Me neither. Not saying it should never happen, but it's good food for thought 😉

[@VermontScaleCustoms]

It's cool and refreshing to hear you guys let loose and shoot the breeze.

[@VermontScaleCustoms]

Re: Mitch Mitchell, holy crap. that guy's chops on so many tunes. He slides stuff in so stealth and so well that every song has little bits of his genius sprinkled all over them. Big fan of his playing.

[@rarianfields]

@@VermontScaleCustoms He's first drummer I ever really wanted to emulate when I started playing over 25 years ago. As I get older he still remains in my top 5. The fact that he was an Elvin head says a lot. What a perfect compliment he was to Jimi. That heavy groove plus all the controlled chaos of free jazz as sonic storm cloud for Jimi to launch his lightning bolts from. Kapow!

[@toberschorr736]

Rob Beatdown Brown! Great convo

[@Neal_Schier]

I'm sort of honored to be talked about as both my time AND my feel are really bad. That makes for a great combination. Seriously though, I agree with Rob is that there is, at the base level, an innate skill/gift that one has or does not.

[@jaderazor]

As a new drummer, wishing I started earlier in life, this was most informative for myself. Knowing what you said, I already said to myself before I took the plunge into drumming, of how I wanted my journey to go. Having a lot of influence from Alex Van Halen, Rick Allen, Tommy Lee and even Ringo for that matter. Expressing yourself in the moment is so rewarding as a artist. And builds on your creative skills from within in and tapping into that, like you pointed out, is sometimes harder for other folks. At least now as humble as I am, I'm looking at this in the correct "light" to develop as the drummer I hope to be. So thank you for this podacst fellows @robbeatdownbrown and @the8020drummer . I have looked up to you both in the past year and 8 months I've been playing. Hope to soon, get to playing with folks, and have to agree with Rob. When playing with someone it's much different than playing to a backing track you made.

[@AardvaarkTonto]

Ringo and quite a lot of pop to theatrical percussionists know what technique is but in the some UK music areas there is an aversion to "falling downstairs" drumming. Ringo fits in the Beatles while a shred guitarist wouldn't. Dave Weckl wouldn't last a minute in most UK bands before someone is "Four four and butt ends La! We don't wanna break granny's legs." I'm just very impressed that all the greats still have teachers! (Trainers I suppose) And everybody at all levels of skill right at the top STILL doubt their own competence and persevere to giving their audience the best time possible. And still learn off each other. Which is always the mark of some sort of greatness.

[@paulerikkson9099]

I like everything rob had to say - I also come From that weckl / Vinny era

[@martinmees878]

Rob is great. I love his style.

[@tommyzcat]

My 2 fave YT "genuine drummers"!

[@michaelfraters831]

Rob makes a good point because having facility makes the easy stuff easier. As Vinnie said in an interview and I’m paraphrasing “if you can drive 180 it’s no problem to cruise at 90 all day.” Gadd is a great example of someone who has a huge reserve of chops but plays simply most of the time unless the music calls for more. Knowing that stuff I would assume makes you so much more confident as a player. I will say that especially for most young players what draws them to the instrument is the flash and technique. I did not appreciate how hard it was/is to play even simple things but make them sound so polished until later it life and my appreciation for that and players that can do that is so much more. The guys in my area that keep getting the work or subbing are not the ones soloing every gig but the ones who have good time, good feel, learn the songs, are easy to work with.

[@tomcarr4630]

Loved this! I always enjoy what both of you bring to your lessons. Great conversation!

[@ottog1979]

Fantastic video and great topics.

[@cafe.cedarbeard]

Great discussion. A word on the blocks to feel: without Tai Ji and Guitar Craft ergonomic training leading to melting my armored muscles I'd not be still improving in all musical skills at 50. Ignorance of the widespread disease of character armor is part of the 20th century swindle that shut down all the real healing methods. Drums and vocals are perhaps the most athletic of instruments to play well. Armored muscles once held my mind so high in my head it wasn't until 2005, after a few years of Tai Ji that I could even feel the tension in my hands, let alone dissolve it. Now practice tapping my feet is breaking up my remaining armor, which is what prevents people from sensing their bodies. Some people need more preliminary healing just to be able to relax enough to feel the sensory details of music.

[@juzhang6665]

Amazing colab❤

[@jasper36]

As a part-time YT-ber I've definitely noticed that more fills+chops focused stuff gets more views, faster than the more groove/playthrough videos I've done.

[@c.l.4895]

Saxophonist Chris Potter said something to the effect of practice 5 times as much music as you’ll ever need and develop the taste to not play it.

[@rarianfields]

Restraint is the truest power

[@jonunderscore]

I think Jimmy Chamberlin is a pretty good example of a drummer who's got chops but doesn't take it too far.

[@CalumetRedJacket]

Steve Jordan and Quest Love (2 of many examples) are so damn good because they're not drummers, they're musicians. How to be a musician use to be standard fare from a teacher. Too many drummers today keep great time and have great chops but what they play, particularly dynamically has little to do with the music they're playing. Feel can't be taught but how to find and develop it if it's in you can be taught.

[@8020drummer]

@@CalumetRedJacket for that last sentence, couldn’t you say that of practically any complex skill that can be taught, like pole vaulting or race driving?

[@rarianfields]

​​@@8020drummerit's not quite the same because it's not simply a skill. It's about your experiences, both musical and life ones, plus who you are, as much as what you know and can do. Pole vaulting is relatively linear. Sure there will be room for style within it, but nothing compared to the endless fractalized possibilities of any given moment during a live musical performance. Racing maybe has a bit more room for expression. But there's a defined end goal with a win/lose outcome, whereas the arts are open to interpretation and outside of an objectively bad performance there's a thousand ways to do most things, and even they can change from night to night.

[@CalumetRedJacket]

@@8020drummer I don't think so. Vaulting and racing may not require adrenaline junkies to be successful but they are high risk sports that require specific personality types (that can't be taught) to be successful. I don't know if drumming has any personality type limitations but if it does it's not anywhere near as restrictive.

[@rarianfields]

@dnczardnczar maybe the closest you could get to actually studying feel is to get into dancing to the music. Nate hints at it in the vid. However, you're gonna wanna actually like the music *and* dancing for that! Not easy for a lot of people who it doesn't come naturally to. But once you do, you get more in touch with your body and interpreting what music does to it, outside of a musically analytical context, and then you'll really start to understand the importance of grooves that keep you moving for extended periods of time.

[@CalumetRedJacket]

@@rarianfields Although I get what you're saying I have to disagree. From just a class in music appreciation or theory a lot can be learned about feel. What's the effect of a major vs a minor key in music? What is it about a 12 bar blues? (etc) of course none of this will naturally lead to playing with the appropriate feel but there are a lot of tools available that can be learned to start with.

[@CalumetRedJacket]

Nate, Here's something to think about and I can't off hand cite references but there are plenty available. "Complex skill" is a context but that doesn't make the context contextual to every endeavor let alone the same or equal. This does apply though, an F1 driver doesn't need to be in a car and on a track to race at that track. A pole vaulter doesn't need to be on a track to practice vaulting. They obsessively practice in their head. The same can be applied to drumming. Drums and sticks are not required to practice or play. I'm sure you are aware of how playing music literally changes the brain but did you know the same happens to those who always listen to music? And they don't know a thing about playing. That's a 2020 Harvard study. Complex physical skills are not limited to physical activity.

[@baruchaloids2323]

Totally rock with Justin Tyson as example of extreme musicality AND chops. Haven’t seen who else is mentioned but i’d def put Jonathan Collin Greene, Yoni Madar, and Ramon Montagner in that camp too! The type of players where you’re just vibing until you see how the sausage gets made and your mind is blown. Andy Prado and Tobias Ralph’s pop drumming too. Unreal stuff going on behind the curtain

[@rarianfields]

Jam sessions are your friend when it comes to finding other musicians to play with. Try simple stuff like the blues to start. Just so happens to be a pretty common kinda jam session found all over the world anyway, and is the foundation of so many other musics. And talk about feel over chops...

[@G60syncro]

One time I was in Martinique with my GF and there was a band playing at the hotel. The crowd was mostly older middle aged French tourists and while the music ripped, not much was happening. I'm not much of a dancer myself but I was watching the drummer intently. We were sitting at the bar and the singer took notice and said "I think we have a drummer in the room!" My GF gestured air drums and pointed at me. I promptly got called on stage and asked to sit in!! I told the guy to go easy on the crazy Carribean stuff and keep it 'lefty drummer playing righty kit' friendly. I played a couple of numbers with them and the drummer and I had a chat afterwards. He invited us the next day, we went to see some sailboat races and he took us to his place. His wife had prepared snacks and drinks, we talked some more and he showed me a couple of licks. It was such a good time!! I don't think of myself as an amazing drummer, I probably just know enough to get me in trouble. What saved the day was how often I got in a live jam situation and ended up not tanking it that night. It's a very fond memory of mine and something I truly wish would happen to any musician! It's so much fun stumbling upon someone like you but with totally different perspective with which you can speak a common language in a completely different dialect!!

[@rarianfields]

@@G60syncro That sounds awesome :) You lefties are the scourge of the sessions tho ;p

[@christiantangø-p4e]

I dont think you can define "feel" in that sense, that is, without making certain assumptions about different existing norms for playing. Hypothetically speaking there are no right and no wrong beats in the world as such. Music, like other art-forms, are human expressions, which is received in a given social context. If it works, if it is understood, if it makes people feel good, it is "good". It is true though, that one analytically can extract different skills for different instruments, and that there is some kind of universality to that. Still, if some strange out of place out of everything Inuit-people find a certain quite out of time and out of subdivision interesting and it makes people go into a trance or a dance, then the analytics can go down the bottom of the sea. On a more practical level: What we consider good music has many aspects, but good drumming has to to with a certain feel which is developed in relation to a certain GROUP of musicians, the BAND. Still of course, many modern day recording musicians went playing with many different people, and then the publication of recorded music set certain standards for "how the music ought to sound". As did previously the different classical composers and teachers in the western world, governed by it sometime overrated analytical approach to music. Of course instructors have a certain interest in promoting the "right" way of doing certain things, and for sure there is a lot of general methods and expressions which can be taught. Still one can ask: what is it that I or WE as a band want to communicate. That is: ask your self as a musician how you can come to terms with what you actually ARE playing, how you can get freedom of expression within your existing "skills" whatever they might be, and yet allow yourself to develop beyond that present level of skill and feel.

[@ignacioperezdelcastillo3182]

🎉🎉🎉

[@geevee7823]

Jeff Porcaro, no chops, JR. Robinson no chops, Ricky Lawson no chops, yet they played on tons of classic albums, because they were hired for their feel and musicality.

[@John_F898]

Jeff Porcaro no chops? I don’t know about that. It actually takes some serious chops to play Rosanna as well as he did.

[@BigDrum]

It could certainly be said that Jeff had chops for playing time, but certainly not for soloing. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJiqgKZoo8pmeskfeature=shared

[@MiddleMalcolm]

Soloing and chops are not the same thing. Saying out loud that those guys have no chops means you either have a limited exposure to that musical culture, or chops means something entirely different these days. Jeff Porcaro + no chops might be the most hilarious thing about drumming I've read in a while. 🙃

[@MiddleMalcolm]

​@@John_F898🎯

[@webstercat]

A drummer plays in bands. Plays what is needed. Only playing live on stage makes you a drummer. Playing steadily with friends, band members. I have the utmost respect for teachers but only playing with others in a band makes one a drummer.

[@grrrund]

Josh Garza! Josh Garza!

[@markshina3511]

You can’t play what you can’t play…. That’s why you learn the subdivisions and the flams and the grooves and the displacements.. so you can play without thinking… that’s why so many drummers prefer soloing over vamp … trading four etc. almost any drummer will start a foot ostentato ( spell?) and once that is going they will just start PLAY ing. It is fun to just play … even Gadd is now into displacing as a science to broaden what “ just happens “

[@ignacioperezdelcastillo3182]

💪💪🙏💪

[@themikarenolds2910]

.

[@8020drummer]

@@themikarenolds2910 link your insta, my guy. Let’s see those blazing chops.

[@lifeonmars4151]

@@8020drummer technical difficulties / just up loaded video this channel

[@ZarbinDrums]

I adamantly disagree with Rob on his stance that feel and groove can’t be taught. Feel and groove change and grow over time and experience. How many of the GOAT had groove and feel the first day they started playing. I don’t even want to open the debate to the subjective nature of feel and groove.

[@glenspringle7337]

I'm not sure if this "chops vs rhythm" is what ur thinking but I keep watching this live ZZTOP stream... Chops when you need it but solid rhythm when the guitar and bass are the focus.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/oamygHZojMtkqLMsi=emUpR_7EUMG7ebnI