Dovetail Joint - How to Hide the Bottom Groove

[@dunaiden9858]

Ive never been inspired and discouraged at the same time

[@bothann]

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You can do it....just a little practice is all it takes

[@blueskyexit]

Its just practice, practice, practice. You could drive a truck through the gaps in my dovtails when I first started.

[@edt9666]

I'd spend half a day cutting those dovetails only to find they wouldn't fit. Very impressive work. Looking forward to more of your videos!!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching. Two new videos a week

[@tagi3d]

So glad to have found this channel in the past few weeks. Gold to see an actual master work and not just another youtube celebrity doing gimmick projects

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

No gimmicks here just passing on what my mentors taught me

[@pipercessna3827]

I would rather the uncovered hole like #1 before it was filled than the #4 option. While it is not visible when the drawer is inserted I would know it was there and the difference in the way the pins line up would drive me nuts. Yeah, I am one of _those_ people. At least I now know what caused the hole in #1. Seen that a few times on furniture in places I have rented but never knew why. Oh the joys of resolving the great mysteries of life. Nice work on #1 and you know it's a really *great* job when you can't find the hole that you just fixed. *Thank You* for the video Rob, it's greatly appreciated. 👍

[@tonyennis1787]

I agree with this. I just cut a stopped rabbet on two sides of my current hand-tool project and it wasn't a good use of time though it was a good learning experience.

[@arjenvld]

I have seen you cut dovetails more than I can count... But the speed and accuracy still amaze me. I hope one day I reach the accuracy with a tenth of the speed.

[@rjkooy100]

I cannot believe this channel has only 185k subs...Every woodworker with any authority (on YT) references to Cosman and his methods. You've got a serious marketing issue I guess. All the best and keep up the good work!

[@DaddysWorkshopoftheCarolinas]

Thanks for this video. I just was laying awake last night thinking through the best way to hide the groove in a bunch of drawer boxes. Now I've got several options.

[@pg-mtl8815]

The last one is crazy amazing!

[@MrAtfenn]

thank you so much cosman team. after you take away all of the PHP from the equation these turorials are constistently the best produced and informative on youtube. so many have learned so much from you guys. your team has inspired so many to believe in and become involved in PHP. . while the focus is, and should always be, on combat wounded and ptsd vets, your impact is so very much larger than that. outside of PHP so many vets or even desabled people have been shown a way to improve their mental outlook while building skills. the feeling of relaxation or 'zen' while woodworking is healing without even taking into considreation the self esteem you can gain by building with your hands. the scope of your inpact on the disabled is immeaserable. and finally your team has been giving enough to share with us the opportunity to become involved by sponsoring PHP in whatever small or large way we can afford. that too is a gift. my wife and i cant thank you enough for what all of you do. your videos, teachings, and motivation helped me get up and start working the shop again at a time when i thought my productive life was over. thank you, thank all of your team.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Music to both my ears and my heart Aaron!

[@TeamProsperity]

Hey Rob, great instruction on those 4 methods but that #4 was a duzzy lol yeah, love your teaching. Your instructions are clear, precise and whoever your videographer is, tell him or her they do a great job, thanks 🙏

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

My son Jake, started when he was 17, he’ll be 27 next month.

[@brianmiller6304]

Just another example where, above all else, sharp is everything. Excellent video. Nice to see them all in one place, all at the same time. Much easier to keep techniques grouped together for each method of "hiding the groove" , in my mind anyway. Thank you very much for this guys. ps:really like the marking gauge trick for checking the depth.

[@rickdringoli9444]

I VOTE FOR THE ROUTER METHOD....GREAT VID ROB.....

[@J.A.Smith2397]

Just looking for a refresher on which side you cut the rabbet since I just got my first rabbet plane n found this amazing nugget

[@coreygrua3271]

This learning experience is like watching a fine heart surgeon do his or her work in a surgery theater. Filming would be quite a challenge, but was perfect. Thank you Dr. Cosman and videographer! This was a privilege to view. So many small steps patiently executed. A woodioligist at work; a Russell M. Nelson of wood.

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

Jake is a really good cameraman, and he continues to get better and better. I suspect he has a really good camera, too! We all need to keep buying Cosman tools to support the effort!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

I hope I’m as good a shape when (and if) I reach his age!

[@garyhorton6652]

Great video! I especially loved the way you give us multiple options!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thats what we do

[@robg109]

To hide the groove of a sliding lid I like to mitre the top bit above the last tail. Hides the groove and allows to shape the top edge with a chamfer or round over 👍🏻👍🏻good vid

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Yup that works too

[@rickreed123]

Thank you for the great video. I forgot about option four

[@horatiobeaker]

Rob’s channel and his content is so inspiring. The videos he made about blade and chisel sharpening were incredibly helpful. I placed an order for just a couple of the items listed on Rob’s website and received a phone call from him the next day confirming the order which was shipped immediately. This is a first class channel with a great teacher. Thanks, Rob.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching and commenting

[@chaplainand1]

great as always. i appreciate learning from you. your camera operator is learning too. glad you are patient. Merry Christmas to you and all those you love and who love you.

[@lehcim777]

Thank you for sharing there are always more to learn than you can think of, and you just showed me 4.

[@johnschillo4452]

I went to sleep last night thinking about how to hide the bottoms and walaa! - I view great instruction this morning.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You think it, we film it!

[@Tool-Meister]

Nicely done Rob.

[@RGRGJKK]

Pura vida Rob you help me with one of my doubts about this issue

[@grkuntzmd]

That was a really helpful video. Thank you.

[@tomsommer54]

Brilliantly done.

[@rick91443]

GREAT TIP(already the first one)...cheers...rr Normandy, Fra.

[@mikegrier2829]

Liking method 2. Method 1 is possibly beyond my skill level, but I loved seeing it, nonetheless. Many thanks.

[@billmellon3517]

Very good Rob!! Well laid out and presented; nice to have choices in a small shop. All the best.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching

[@stephanedaigle1613]

Wow! Number 4 was awesome! I never saw that technique before. Thanks for sharing this. :)

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You bet

[@alangknowles]

You could also mitre the one tail/pin at the groove. See "The Highland Woodworker Episode 27." (13:30 to 19:10)

[@davidbenson8122]

That’s a great little shooting board are those on the website

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

We’re glad you like it! If you don’t want to make one you can buy it here robcosman.com/collections/workbench-accessories/products/rob-cosmans-shooting-board-mini?variant=38306002960562

[@dannythed]

Can technique #4 be used with the shallow rabbet (from the skew block plane) instead of automotive tape?

[@Franco.Ar.]

Wait, which one is the one "mehh, no quite so"? They all look Amazing! The precision on those dovetails is so another level, I feel compelled to buy a set of chisels and start trying to learn how to do them, even when the quality may never get to that level, they are a trully fine joinery to enjoy.

[@Franco.Ar.]

@@boriskogan7903 I would have guessed the 1st one, you may not match the grain precisely on figured wood, and the patch may become noticeable.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

The one you like the most!

[@joehirschegger7723]

New gauge for kerf offset? Nice!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Coming soon and in brass. Check the newsletter

[@Brough_builds]

Can't wait for the offset block I'm currently using one I made with a piece of scrap and masking tape but have to keep renewing the tape as it starts to fold up after a bit of use

[@eodeberhard1066]

I made one out of walnut and used a router plane to create the offset so I don’t worry about tape wearing out. It has worked perfectly. I knew Rob was developing a metal one and I’ve been waiting to see it! Can’t wait to order one now.

[@Bokehlisious]

Wow! Nice 👍🏻

[@JeanMinutile]

Using method 4 would is it possible to offset all the tails and cut all the pin the same depth for the joint to look more like a "normal" dovetail ? Or would it weaken the joint too much ?

[@johnfrederickson3082]

Thank you for sharing as always. Your wife must be a saint.

[@MrMemusashi]

Can we get a video on how you make a drawer bottom plane? That looks shop made?

[@MB-zj3er]

As a beginner I'm not up to cutting dovetails, but for others like me - if you use rabbets on two ends of the box and leave the other two pieces solid you will hide any rabbets or dados you make on the interior if you cut them the same (or lesser) depth as your rabbets. I'm sure this is common sense, but was a bit of a discovery for me. 🤷‍♂

[@Gotmovezlikejagga]

Thank you Rob for sharing these options. So much excellent information. The power router option seemed out of place, the screaming router compared to the peaceful and relaxing hand tool options.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

I agree

[@tabhorian]

I really could have used this last month. That said, I got finished with the completely non power tool spice cabinet using your techniques for dovetails. I'm pretty proud of it, and my wife is the envy of our friends. Who knew that Penzeys Spices doesn't sell spice racks?

[@tonyennis1787]

Their spices are good, however.

[@Exiledk]

The first one was, well, impressive. I looked really hard at it, couldn't see it..!!

[@TwinPhoenix666]

Excessive, is more like it

[@rbrads13]

You are just a beast of knowledge. Thank you.

[@hassanal-mosawi4235]

Thanks for sharing that!

[@CabinetFramingUK]

impeccable timing Rob, just making some tea/coffee caddies and i was weighing up my options for the bottom!

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

Thanks, Rob. I figured out method #1 with my first hand-cut through-dovetail project not quite a year ago, though not as invisibly as you did in this lesson! Method #4 is really elegant and I will be trying that in my next/upcoming drawer project. The beauty of #4, to my eye, is that the finished joint looks even less like a machine-made joint than a standard hand cut dovetail joint, and that is a plus as far as I am concerned!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

I agree 100%

[@tonyennis1787]

I thought the execution was fantastic but my OCD disagrees about the result.

[@kainemeshkin6662]

Great tips. Never seen the offset method... going to try it on my next box. Only a master at his craft can make these joints look so effortless. Really love these tips Rob, thanks

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Keep watching and we will keep the tips coming

[@theMrFouldsy]

Is the offset tail in the final method substantially weaker than the full thickness tails? If the rebate was cut into all of the tails the groove would be hidden and the tails would all match. Seems like a good solution for fine through-tails without a router table.

[@smtitmas]

great video. very concise and practical info. thxs. @13:48 you use some sort of gauge block instead of your marking gauge to offset the boards for the saw kerf. is that homemade or commercially available?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

expect to have them available in the next few weeks. Solid brass, .024 offset for my saw, will offer them for a few other saws as well, LV, LN.

[@timothygrupp]

I knew about three but four?! Thanks.

[@jimcarter4929]

Still one more, that I know.

[@fermentedend241]

Where did you get that rabbet plane at? Thing is bad a

[@kathleenmorgan439]

Rob, will the offset block seen in #4 be available anytime soon?

[@Kennebec_Craft]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, Robbie C--what is that thingamabob you put up to the side instead of measuring your DT saw with a marking gauge and offsetting the work that way?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

stay tuned, soon to be released, perhaps as early as next week!

[@robertbamford8266]

Magic. Thanks for the video.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching

[@KevElder]

Been waiting for this - thanks!!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching and commenting

[@hypnoraythompson5824]

lovely stuff. Thank you

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching

[@jimanders6619]

Did I sneak a peek at a new tool? Little block for offsetting the tail board without having to set a gauge for the saw plate? When does that go on sale?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

in a week if all goes as planned. Join our newsletter to get notified.

[@jwd888]

i for one always save these masterclasses (edit) where could i get one of those groovers used in #2 forgive me for not knowing there name i'm knew to this woodworking,,, cheers (edit 2 ) found it on the site...

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

At our tool website of course. Go to robcosman.com and look under planes

[@paulduhamel8397]

Will you be selling the "offset block"?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Very soon, get on our newsletter, that is where it gets announced.

[@johnnorris1546]

What is this sorcery at 13:50?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

New tool coming soon, get on our newsletter if you are interested.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Well pretty good

[@stuartlandrigan6098]

Hi Rob, what was that little block you used for setting out at time mark 13.51. Has it been machined to match your saw kerf?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Nee tool due out in a week or so.

[@1deerndingo]

Thank you. I've been waiting to see how you do a stepped dovetale. Would you use that on fine furniture or would you use a stopped groove (hand tools).

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

I would not use on fine furniture. I would stop the groove when making furniture. Shop stuff I use it all the time

[@AdeAhmat]

I can't hide my dovetail gaps myself. LOL. Very informative video as always.

[@tonyennis1787]

Roy Underhill said that when he cuts dovetails, very occasionally there will be a gap wider than a needle-scratch. He cuts down the line with his saw and inserts a piece of veneer.

[@HWCism]

Good work and great camera work. Must be hard to keep up with you.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

He started when he was 17 and he will be 27 next month. One of my 4 sons and 10 children, Jake.

[@Exodus5K]

Rob, have you ever considered trying a mitered dovetail? The miter hides the groove automatically, so you can just pick your favorite method to cut a through groove in both the pin and tail board. Then you also get the appearance of a nice miter at the edge corners instead of the appearance of a butt joint.

[@bigkiv47]

Yep Mitred top and bottom is how I do most, if not all, of my boxes. Makes for a very clean groove, without having to try and hide it, and like you said it makes it look more refined rather than a butt joint. Trying to disguise something, rather than design / engineer out the problem just makes for more work and frustration. :)

[@fin3125]

The scrib line has aways bugged me..guess it's the OCD in me. Is that use for a sign that it is hand built or do you plan it off?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Actually either way works depending on how you feel about it. If you dont like the scribe line try scribing only where you will chop

[@lucianosilipo5024]

Hey do you have any videos on how find customers if you are new to woodworking? It's an expensive Hobby and I would like to sell my stuff so I can continue but I have no idea how I can find people that would rather buy something that's pricier than go to Walmart and get particle wood with sticker on furniture

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Id still be making furniture for a living if I could answer that one. Sorry but that is the toughest side of the business. Folks are no longer taught anything about wood in school so when it comes time to buy furniture they only see shape and color, behind the surface doesnt matter to them.

[@lucianosilipo5024]

@@RobCosmanWoodworking oh I see... That sucks, it's fun to make furniture. So what do you do now with woodworking for a living?

[@kevinkolpatzeck5998]

Am I spotting a new tool at 13:52? 😉

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Coming soon, will be made of brass, works very well!

[@lukedejonge6178]

Awesome video! Had a question, I’m in southern Ontario and I see a fair amount of wood movement with humidity changes from season to season. When making drawers in the winter, should I leave some room for the drawer sides to expand vertically in the case so they don’t bind in the summer time? My drawer front is cut from the same piece as the apron like on your standing desk so the fit is consistent all year round. Should I fit the sides and back to the opening exactly or leave room for them to expand? Thanks

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You should always leave room for drawer sides to expand. If possible always build drawers in the most humid time of year, then they will mostly just shrink not expand

[@harleeb9061]

First one was the best grain match I’ve ever seen. Paused the video and still couldn’t see it

[@charleslandry1653]

What about drawer slips?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Well the drawer slips have the groove so its not hiding a groove, but yes they are great

[@shawnscarlett2457]

#5 miter dovetail.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Yes that one too

[@jasper12785]

Thanks so much for sharing, exactly what I needed to know, kudos my friend, outstanding!

[@marvinostman522]

I would definitely clean that wet glue off before you count the shim off and be sure to clean your saw off. That glue will rust metal fast.

[@robinandrobins]

I have been doing it the most complicated way, Wood filler putty! 😂

[@AlexEllis]

Method 5 would be to use a mitre on the corner and Rob has a good video on this too - kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4vdoaF-aNeha6s

[@eodeberhard1066]

I saw it! At 13’49”, instead of setting his marking gauge to the width of the blade to create an offset, Rob picked up a little metal block which I’m assuming has a .024” offset built into it that can be flipped depending on which side (left or right) of the tail you are transferring to the pin board. I made one out of walnut last year and shared it with Jake, and he hinted that a steel one was already in the works. I want to buy the first one! When will they be available?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

In a week or so Ebby, if all goes as planned. It will be brass.

[@tonykemp3098]

Have you thought of auditioning for "The Flash", they are some fast joints. Impressive.

[@TenonsTenors]

You forgot a filleted pin! No need to cut the tail thin in #4, just cut a filet into the pin. That's #5.

[@douglasrasmussen480]

Not bad work for a beginner......LOL

[@smfvmd]

Aren’t you tempted to fill it with plastic wood?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Such temptation has never entered my mind, I suggest you banish the thought!

[@smfvmd]

@@RobCosmanWoodworking . . . is the right answer!

[@normanallenmacneill6697]

Off-set dovetail = OCD trigger

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

New offset tool coming

[@squifty]

The title of this video should actually be: "How to Hide the Bottom Groove with a beautiful set of finely-tuned hand tools and decades of skill (except for a router table technique)". I intend this comment to be taken as a sincere homage to your skill as well as admiration for your tool set.

[@dougtilaran3496]

Never liked using dovetails..

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

.....and then I woke up!

[@adrianellis4497]

Really, videos like this are insulting to all accumulated skills from craftsman who have carried forward centuries old skills passed down through books and teaching. You behave like your inventing something new, if you learn from past masters writings you will understand fully all aspects of drawer making before you start making childish mistskes. No wonder skills are being lost with this disrespectful attitude and we cannot produce half of what past craftsmen could without all the fancy modrn tools of today. Its more about how to hide your inabilities and mistakes than promoting the advancement of knowledge. Being skilled is a lengthy process of learning, it doesnt happen quickly just because you've bought some tools and have a video camera. Show some respect.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

How about “buzz off”!

[@adrianellis4497]

@@RobCosmanWoodworking go read some books, particularly old ones and stop pretending to be an expert

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Go start a channel so I can learn from your expertise. The world will be so much better off.