Strategies to minimize wood movement

Rob Cosman discusses several different techniques he uses to minimize wood movement.
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[@vivibances]

Hello Rob, my husband and I are from Peru we made wood characters with different kind of wood and now tried our first wooden box. We want to thank your videos they’re very instructive and helpful.

[@thenext9537]

I deal with a lot of 8/4 and 12/4 walnut. Air dried, kiln dried. I also use my moisture meter, all my stock is sub 8%. That makes a big difference right away. Also, as you pointed out if it’s highly figured, then you have to account for it. My method mill it oversized , wait a couple days and measure see what happens. For example, a table I’m finishing up has a finished size of 8/4 on the dot. I bought the walnut in October 2022. I only issues with one board that was 9 foot long and was highly figured. It moved a lot, but it was my centerpiece so I got to 1 3/4 while rest was 2” and had to feather the bottom for the apron. It took a month for that piece to behave lol. If people reading this get nervous, don’t be. Woodworking is an adventure and if you are patient you can control the narrative.

[@RodneyMcKee]

Rod, your channel has some of the best content related to woodworking. Keep up the great work.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You keep watching and we will keep filming

[@katherynlamarche7308]

Thanks again Rob Julien Lamarche

[@viracocha03]

I am completely new to woodworking, about 3 months in. Helpful video, the end when Rob mentioned 40% waste blew me away.

[@deathsyth27]

Just wait till someone asks you to build something out of some exotic wood that costs $150 a board foot...

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

The secret to woodworking is straight square wood. And to get that you need to be prepared to through some wood away that won't cooperate

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

If you liked this video check out Rob's other video on wood movement: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHnOi3pjfamYorM

[@MarkSmith-zs3or]

Thank you Rob - great info

[@walterrider9600]

thank you Rob

[@fireworxz]

Thanks

[@1320crusier]

Dang Rob. Hell of a main you have going there. This video along with JKM's video that includes data on how much each species can move are very useful

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Go get a copy of Hoadley’s book. It has all the formulas and details on wood movement a great reference.

[@ZX9RDan]

The more I learn from guys like you, the more I want to find à different hobby. So much to learn! I know NOTHING!!!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Not really because with Wood it applies universally. So you just need some basic skills, good tools, and an understanding of what movement

[@kiwdwks]

Awesome video/info Rob! Thank you...

[@bjacobowski]

You mentioned it in passing, but cutting your rough lumber down to approximate size, letting it sit a couple days before milling makes a big difference both in staying square and minimizing waste. Imperfections in squareness amplify the larger a piece is - a small twist in a 2 ft board might require removing 1/16" to square, but that same twist on a 10 ft board could take 1/2" or more...and then cutting that 10 ft board after milling might release more tension, requiring further milling.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You are 100% correct

[@dukeengine1339]

That's a very interesting video! This kind of things, as my old friend Giuseppe would say, is kind of "80 years in 10 minutes" 🙏🏻🌞

[@lorihawk9046]

Thank you for video by the way. Very helpful information.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching

[@jamesmills6766]

Thanks for posting

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching

[@glencrandall7051]

Great information.👍 Thank you for sharing.🙂🙂

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching

[@coljter15]

This is really great content, and excellent teaching

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Glad you liked it

[@kentboys5017]

I can now go to the store to buy the correct wood. Bring it home and work with it knowing how it might react. Very useful information that most people don’t usually think about. Excellent video thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. Take care. 👍🏻

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks Kent and thanks for doing the Php Facebook page

[@Brough_builds]

I've just done this. I'm building some shaker style cupboard doors for someone and worked out I needed 10 lengths (2.5m) bought 14 and glad I did as 3 turned out to be as straight as ocean waves

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

There you go. I have been there too

[@markglabinski526]

Great information. Thank you!!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You are so welcome!

[@farmcat3198]

That was very helpful, thanks.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Glad it was helpful!

[@harleywood9588]

Very good, very informative.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Glad it was helpful

[@taylormedia1000]

Great insight

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for commenting

[@russelltherealestateguy7527]

Thanks great info

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thanks for watching and commenting

[@hassanal-mosawi4235]

Thanks for sharing that!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

No problem!

[@haisamjab]

Thank you very much Rob. First time i tried to resaw a 1 x 3 feets by 1 inch thick flat sawn fir board by hand, I ended up with two hugely and simmetrically cupped boards. What would you do? Would you clamp them back together and let them dry or the stress of clamping would check and crack them?

[@darriandorr4228]

This was very helpful

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

glad I could assist

[@tomfields8963]

Rob, Love the videos!!! Have you done any videos on a complete project start to finish? For instance Chair, table, case work? Thanks and keep videos coming!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Many, however they are in my online workshop, that is a membership site accessible on my webpage, robcosman.com

[@sbs128]

Hi. Fairly new to woodworking. I’ve done a few softwood projects and going to start using hardwood. Mainly oak and ash I expect as they are more readily available here in the UK. My question is if I am having to take my stock from 1 to 3/4 inches, I would need to do it in two stages each separated by a week to dry / settle in order for it to be really stable? Great video. Thank you😊

[@wouterengels7769]

Hi Rob, thanks for your insights, it will certainly help me in the future. I notice that on some furniture (dining table, outdoor tables or seat slats) they put a groove down the middle of the board (on the underside). I think this is to avoid cupping. As I'm currently building a garden bench, I was wondering whether this would help, or whether the wood would just crack down the middle. Do you have any thoughts on doing that?

[@MANJITSINGH-ko2oi]

HI rob that was so good. I always go to nearest to what I need and then I am in trouble. lol

[@АндрюхаК-о9в]

Спасибо!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

thanks

[@PostmanStudio]

great information, thank you a lot for that. It would have been great too to talk about panel creation and how you lay out the wood board to avoid global cupping (like in your video front picture).

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Go watch my video on breadboard ends

[@suebull75]

Your thoughts on alternating the grain direction every other board in a glued top if a person cannot get quartersawn boards? Recommended by a few, but I am not sure if these are truly informed recommendations. Thank you for sharing your experience !

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

That was more applicable when housing was not so climate controlled. Wild temperature swings and consequently relative humidity swings. I don’t think I would ever have bought into the idea of ruining the grain continuity for the extra work and blah look of 2” wide strips. Better off seasoning the boards in the room where the piece will live , before you build.

[@davegravel3740]

If you're building a bench top using construction southern yellow pine edge glued, is it better to use wider boards like 2x8s and have 5 boards across or 10 2x4s across?

[@Dragon_With_Matches]

Thanks for the information! I’ve heard that when we’re making really small pieces, like a small ring box or something similar (a few inches by a few inches) that wood movement isn’t really a concern - is there any truth to that or should I still plan around it?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Thats basically true, there is wood movement but on very small pieces the movement is so small its negligible

[@dale1956ties]

At 3:06 you say "there's no glue from here to here" and I wonder what it would do if it was glued all the way across. Is it a matter of it might blow that upper corner apart so you glued in such a way as to control which way to control the direction of the movement? Could you have made that frame go all way around but leave room in what would become the bottom of that frame to allow for movement but keeping it hidden? I've never seen a 3-sided frame before. I've mentioned several times how much I enjoy these videos but I don't think I've ever mentioned the video quality. The woodworking demos and the tips and tricks are invaluable but I'm also impressed with Jake's experetise behind the camera. He really does a great job. He follows the action almost perfectly every time and gets nice, steady, clear, closeup shots whenever they're called for. Being really good at what you do must be a Cosman family trait. Because Frick handles his part of the live streams really well too. Whoever does the editing gets an A+ from me as well. SO... As always, thanks guys! It always makes my day to see that notification of a new video!! {8^)

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You cannot stop Wood from moving. If you glued it, then the wood would move and something would have to give the word would crack or twist or break apart. Wood is unbelievably strong in moving so you just have to deal with it and allow the word to move you cannot stop it.

[@davidlundy8562]

Looks like Rob also likes the "David Charlesworth" hair trick.

[@baraksinz]

I was thinking the same thing. 😆

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

yes I do

[@0whitestone]

I had no idea torrefied wood had any applications outside of lutherie. I know it from acoustic guitar building, every guitar manufacturer has a special name for it but it's all basically torrification, which changes the sound. It's supposed to make it sound like an aged, played-in instrument, I don't know about that but I have played some that sound incredible. Specifically ones made with torrefied Sitka and Adirondack spruce.

[@jeffdamon5419]

Rob, Which "Hoadleys book on wood"? It seems Mr Hoadleys is a prolific author. I'm finding several different books penned by him. As always, Thanks for the video. I've discovered the pitfalls of re sawing, especially if it's a spendy piece of exotic wood. Having to buy it again to fix the results is a valuable lesson learned......

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Understanding wood by hoadley

[@darriandorr4228]

I love woodworking and i am only 13

[@seanmurphy5417]

Keep watching rob and other great teachers to learn. You will enjoy the hobby much more if you learn from them. Have fun.

[@glennstasse5698]

I’m 73 and I do too. I wish you lived in my neighborhood! Stay with it and it will pay you back in more ways than you might guess right now.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Hi Darrian....I was like you at 13. Keep watching my videos and you will learn a lot

[@beantea5592]

You're gonna be a great woodworker with a head start like that!

[@bryand7852]

Can you get Accoya in Canada? It is a type of pine that has been processed using vinegar type chemicals. This changes the cell structure to stop it absorbing water. This means very little movement and rot. They guarantee it for 25 years buried in the ground…. They are building window frames with it in the UK. I built a conservatory extension with it However, it’s no good for hand tool working - very splitty…..

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

I’ve never heard of it before

[@debandmike3380]

I have plenty of wood that goes bad twists warped or whatever I slice them up into long thin pieces glue them back together kind of like cutting board style but longer boards, matching up strips to compensate for each other and then I end up getting really nice straight boards that I use for things like drawers. The variations create really cool effects

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Great tip

[@fayz44awad]

Thanks🙏👌🌹

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You’re welcome 😊

[@1deerndingo]

Did you drawbore the p ins on the breadboard top.

[@lorihawk9046]

I use 5/4 quarter-sawn white oak for serving trays up to 24 x 24 inches. Resawing 5/4 down the middle to achieve two boards just less than 7/16 thickness for panel glue up. Even though the panel is housed in dados/grooves 2 inch tall sides (serving tray), I have still experienced instances of both the panel bowing and the occasional twist causing the sides to lift right off the surface. I guess Resawing is not recommending based on Rob’s suggestion for planing wood on both sides?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

That’s correct. When you resolve would you release a lot of tension in the room wood. And that tension is what is causing the Bowing and twisting. As I stated you’d be better off taking the 7/16 out of the center of the board therefore you would evenly remove, would not causing as much change in the tension of the board.. if you must Risa, I would re-saw then let those boards sit in the acclimate for at least two weeks then you can to see whether they’re going to twister bow which they probably will and then you know not to use them

[@lorihawk9046]

Thank you very much for the response! I was afraid that might be the answer, but that definitely helps! Trying to economically do this with 5/4, as I sell these trays. I love quartersawn white oak but it is obviously expensive. Can’t seem to find 1/2 inch quartersawn stock locally, so I will be investigating 1/2 1/4sawn white oak plywood next. Thanks again! Really appreciate it.

[@grublet2093]

When you do a table top they use the do them in strip, does that help with the twisting?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Not at all pure wives tale

[@robertmabry4172]

What width of board do you not need to worry about wood movement? Someone once told me 4" in width or less you don't have to worry.

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

All wood moves in width and thickness. The wider the board the more wood fibers there are so the more moisture it can soak up and thus the more it will move. The less wide the less it moves but it still moves. Now throw in the species of wood as they all move differently. Get Hoadleys book on wood and he has tables that will define exactly how much wood will move by species, size and relative humidity

[@jamesbondo5895]

Would you say that torrified (?) wood isn't compatible with pva glue?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

It is. We use it with PVA glue and it holds

[@thenext9537]

Torrefied ? What kind sorcery is that! Man I want to make a table from wood like that :)

[@jjesus3054]

Please use metric sistem too!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You need to watch my video on imperial verses metric

[@sterlinghein]

Given you factor in 40% waste when buying lumber for a project, what have been some of your go-to scrap wood projects over the years?

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Easy small wood boxes

[@tagi3d]

That hair tho ❤

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Me and Fabio

[@clemoniii]

40% Ouch! With all the waste from my newbie skills, furniture is looking cheaper at the fancy store 😁

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

But that fancy store the furniture is steel, made with pressboard wood bolts, and won’t last you nearly as long as a well made traditional piece of furniture

[@thetinkeringtypist]

Wood movement is one of the reasons I don't really like working with wood. Not having the tools and time to mill rough lumber down and letting it sit to stabilize in a climate controlled environment is a big barrier to entry for me. I think I just like the idea of working with wood.

[@johna.9742]

Someone tell me again why Rob is letting his hair grow long? Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with it, in fact he is one of those that can let it get long and it looks good. Just don't recall why he is going with the long flowing look. If I had to guess, I would say it has something to do with hockey.

[@trevortoop5166]

Dear Rob as you seem to be going full hippie a beard cannot be far off. Go for it. I mean a big beard full on 18th century.

[@jcoul1sc]

Beech moves a lot

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

Allwood moves some more than others

[@Ashitaka1110]

40% waste factor...oof.

[@XxMalabooo]

Lets say you are making a larger furniture piece, like a long rectangular tv console out of solid wood; do you box joint the 4 ends to deal with wood movement? Or just say fuck it and do ply?

[@dpmeyer4867]

thanks

[@tigranminasyan3222]

Thank You very much, very helpful video!!!!! As always!!!

[@RobCosmanWoodworking]

You bet