Robert Greene: Achieving Mastery | Big Think Mentor

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@GuppyPal
@GuppyPal 10 жыл бұрын
Read his book, "Mastery." I have not read his other works, but Mastery is fantastic. Cannot recommend it highly enough to those who are motivated in life and want to do something meaningful (to them or to others).
@GuppyPal
@GuppyPal 7 жыл бұрын
I'm pretty unconventional and had to ignore pretty much everyone in making my life decisions. I was patient. I invested in myself in ways that few people understood focusing mostly on knowledge and experiences. The result was everything in my life started coming together after a few years, and I'm very confident in my knowledge and ability to do just about anything. I have a good job (a great one for someone my age), travel the world, am physically fit, and have a very active and fun love/sex life. People who used to criticize me don't really say much to me at all any more because of how much more "successful" I am than them. My life is proof I knew what I was doing and they didn't/don't. You have to ignore the haters and understand that every exceptional person out there has done things a bit different. If they hadn't, they wouldn't be exceptional. Thank you, Robert Greene.
@GuppyPal
@GuppyPal 7 жыл бұрын
I should also say that even though I read a great deal, Mastery and The 48 Laws of Power had more influence on me than almost any others. There is powerful wisdom and insight in each one.
@tensaantares
@tensaantares 6 жыл бұрын
From what I read in Mastery, it'd probably be more beneficial to NOT ignore the "haters" and think of them as a means of gaining social intelligence.
@a111oveWrldWde
@a111oveWrldWde 2 жыл бұрын
@@GuppyPal Thank You! ❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥❤️‍🔥🌏🌍🌎
@StavroginNikolai
@StavroginNikolai 11 жыл бұрын
For those who don't know, Robert Greene is the author of several great books on political reality, social dynamics and psychological manipulation, including 48 Laws of Power and The Art of Seduction. He is as close to a modern Machiavelli as you'll get. Show some respect. I come from the natural sciences myself and I had an aversion toward social sciences before, but since then I've realized (perhaps it's an obvious realization) that we live in a society and need to understand how it works.
@AoiPride
@AoiPride 2 жыл бұрын
I found this guy when i was 12 what he talked about sounded very valuable but my little brain had a hard time understanding. Now i found some video on internet of him talking and i feel like i should read him again maybe now i get it
@codinginflow
@codinginflow 6 жыл бұрын
I love this whole concept of mastery. Live would be so boring if you could become good in anything in a matter of days.
@AoiPride
@AoiPride 2 жыл бұрын
I chose to become master of many thing but not a master of one thing. Now at 27 i can say im a swiss knife of a person and there are so many more domains to learn. Do you think there is such thing as a master of everything? Or im just fooling myself
@abdulmusavvirali3434
@abdulmusavvirali3434 2 жыл бұрын
@@AoiPride Keep exploring and and add value to the world with your knowledge. I think that is the best way learn more..by teaching
@cryptochef70
@cryptochef70 6 жыл бұрын
I recommend his books! They've kept me alive & going. Thank your Mr. Greene.
@hdsi80
@hdsi80 11 жыл бұрын
Robert Greener... Awesome. He is brilliant as always. I am combining 4 different fields right now. I think everyone should at least be a master in 3 fields.
@EvaGreenFanPennyDreadful
@EvaGreenFanPennyDreadful 11 жыл бұрын
robert greene is a master story-teller...all of his books are freaking awesome.
@johnbright7518
@johnbright7518 11 жыл бұрын
Wow, you put that so elegantly, but here's a caveat: What if I don't want to see color anymore? What if, I want to see something more? For some, the frequencies we frequently encounter just become, well, too frequent. Few people go lifetimes without ever seeing the color purple, others magenta; so their lives are limited. But then aren't we limited if we can only see color? Surely there's more to life than colors. To see more all we have to do is yearn to turn the dial on our ingenuity to "high"
@Thestarvinstudent
@Thestarvinstudent 11 жыл бұрын
I have a ton of respect for Robert Greene and all of his work. He is a "master" researcher and historian.
@SandNigah
@SandNigah 11 жыл бұрын
Robert Greene is by far my favorite Author, but I think Daniel Coyle, in his book "The Talent Code", would be most beneficiary to anyone whom wishes to master their craft...(Deep focus, inducing Myelin, and repeat after a good nights sleep; about 10,000 hours worth of practice is required to achieve true mastery). Hope this helps.
@WaAaAaAaW
@WaAaAaAaW 11 жыл бұрын
Give me definite reasons why discovering what is not yet known is important.
@bobzone09
@bobzone09 11 жыл бұрын
Coming from Descartes, that means a lot!
@Yui714
@Yui714 11 жыл бұрын
Spend a few years studying mathematics and applying your knowledge on the subject. Then spend a few more years studying writing and applying your knowledge on the subject. Rinse & repeat. It takes time and studying but you'll go somewhere. During your time studying you will likely find and pursue new goals and opportunities. The real key is to start since you can't always plan exactly where you'll end up. Your future self will change the path you then see fit.
@48lawspower82
@48lawspower82 6 жыл бұрын
He seduces his audience
@PopsGribs
@PopsGribs 11 жыл бұрын
Me: BS, MS, PhD in Electrical Engineering, NSF Postdoc in Applied Mathematics, over 20 years experience in industrial research, 7 issued patents, multiple invited papers at scientific conferences and well-respected technical journals, invited talks at university math departments... etc. This guy is not a scientist. He is a writer of popular self-help books. That does not mean he is a bad writer; I would just take what he has to say "given the source" as we say in my technical community...
@johnbright7518
@johnbright7518 11 жыл бұрын
First, I think we're equivocating "what makes us happy" with "what is necessary." Technological progress is objectively necessary in life. An example of this is in human health. Assuming that a construction worker who never went to medical school starts developing pains and a part of his body enlargens. He'll w/out a doubt consider a doctor visit. It turns out he has a malign cancer that makes odds in surviving slim. If the technology or the science didn't yet exist to cure him "is he happy?"
@giobest7943
@giobest7943 11 жыл бұрын
My passion is music, and David Gilmour is my DaVinci. If I ever master anything I hope it's guitar.
@AnandJoshi-p2z
@AnandJoshi-p2z 3 жыл бұрын
Did you master it? I hope you answer my question
@pennymac16
@pennymac16 11 жыл бұрын
Who are we to determine what society is lacking?
@114spencer
@114spencer 11 жыл бұрын
Simply we have people who just do not care, however though, we have people who say they in fact do care but are unwilling to do anything for change, but then are the people who are doing something, a rare form of humanity but nothing has change because it was just as rare then as it is now to find someone of great brilliance such as DaVinci or Einstein, and every few decades or centries, we find someone who is of that level of intelligence or the next big innovator.
@troyarmstrong434
@troyarmstrong434 11 жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@peter_castle
@peter_castle 11 жыл бұрын
In Argentina we have public Education in universitie level included. There are thousands of people studyng in our system even from other places. I don't know from where are you. I'm just telling you how is here.
@americanslime
@americanslime 11 жыл бұрын
See, I don't think people take this anywhere near as seriously as they should. I mean at this point people think if they see someone do something on television more than once they've become an expert in it themselves. One has to learn the value of visual information you get from watching someone do something as opposed to the equally important tactile information that will teach you innumerable things you just can't learn on a screen. Try learning how to swing an axe effectively.
@alooobre
@alooobre 11 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@TMSKINS
@TMSKINS 11 жыл бұрын
We need this in Denmark as well :)!
@BlitzenRot
@BlitzenRot 11 жыл бұрын
The misspelling of DiVinci I do accept. As the person in the video did make the same mistake, thereby he may be confused. Although the Einestien I shall never accept.
@ErostheEpic
@ErostheEpic 11 жыл бұрын
"The Brain is an instrument." Thank God Jimmy Hendrix is dead, other wise he'd find a way to light my brain on fire. D:
@16yearoldwhiteboy
@16yearoldwhiteboy 11 жыл бұрын
Also check out Kenny Werners book called "effortless mastery"
@miguelrothe6943
@miguelrothe6943 11 жыл бұрын
One would hope that with access to such science and technology we would retain human ambition and possibly move onto something higher than the level at which we are all homogeneous, or at least past where it matters because there is simply so much more to learn. Also, while I do not argue that at the moment the aforementioned ambition and action is based on difference (class, governmental. etc.) the beliefs that a: people can't be reeducated and b: we are soon coming to an omniscient point are
@Gummo22
@Gummo22 11 жыл бұрын
There is only one way anyone masters a craft. Applied discipline to said craft over a long period of time. We are in an age where Einestein or DiVinci would not comprend such theories of string theory of Edward Witten. Thus, we are in age beyond Einestein or DiVinci. This world no longer celebrates those types of achievements as it once did. We are beyond. That being said cheers to @roisification & @landongregory
@awimachinegun
@awimachinegun 11 жыл бұрын
That's just the connotation the creationists have given to the word design. I think he's using it retrospectively, meaning that the unguided process ended up working pretty well in "designing" the human brain.
@itowedin
@itowedin 11 жыл бұрын
That's kinda what I'm saying. Some people get painted into a corner with these mundane jobs or responsibilities too early or under unfortunate circumstances. They aren't able to dedicate the time to cultivate / master their passions or desired professions. We need more balance in our society coupled with all this technology.
@PhilipZeplinDK
@PhilipZeplinDK 11 жыл бұрын
That's a bit oversimplified. That's like saying there's one only way to eat food: stick it in your mouth and chew. While technically true, it ignores the many possible ways to do that. For mastery, there are effective ways of learning, ineffective ways, and just outright different ways for different people. Giving the blanket statement "just do it a lot" (which is basically what you said) is, while technically correct, not really worthwhile.
@piloot
@piloot 11 жыл бұрын
Just put a ton of adds on the videos and get your money.
@Waranle
@Waranle 11 жыл бұрын
I agree with you
@johnbright7518
@johnbright7518 11 жыл бұрын
Fine, if you accuse me of being a technocrat, which I don't necessarily believe I am, (because there is so little space that I could type in that would have me properly able to express my world view,) then I could just as equally accuse you of being a Luddite. Would this be true?
@Lukesta0
@Lukesta0 11 жыл бұрын
I love how I can come online and get an instant motivation boost from videos similar to this one! Thank you
@Krissypoo508
@Krissypoo508 11 жыл бұрын
I am a master of something that nobody else is, I am the only one. I am a master at my life!
@EvilToasT09
@EvilToasT09 11 жыл бұрын
I enjoy the spectrum but sometimes I really like knowing and understanding deeply about 1 subject. Uncovering all the layers, and with each new layer I grow more and more interested.
@pennymac16
@pennymac16 11 жыл бұрын
This is true if you're talking about this in an egoistic sense, yes.
@TimRobles89
@TimRobles89 11 жыл бұрын
"There's no drug in the world" just wait till we master pharmaceuticals.....
@bigrodneyakatrey
@bigrodneyakatrey 11 жыл бұрын
read all his books . you should too.
@aiarchitect.me.
@aiarchitect.me. Жыл бұрын
This man changed my life.
@johnbright7518
@johnbright7518 11 жыл бұрын
Sorry, I didn't read all of your comments. I came back initially to this comment thread to say that you were probably more than a luddite. & sure, you might hold valid reasons for why we should distrust the world. Although, it doesn't excuse you from saying "I love technology" when you first prompted me to state "why discovering what is not yet known is important"; something better phrased as "pursuing scientific discovery," when technology is application of scientific discovery.
@WaAaAaAaW
@WaAaAaAaW 11 жыл бұрын
This is an example of why technology cannot freely advance within this corporate society, it goes against the interest of some. Some technological developments would eradicate power-inequalities, which is something that not everybody is waiting for. The future is very scary looking if you think about it. :P And not due to technology, but because of corporations who can own and control more technology, and therefore also us, the people.
@WaAaAaAaW
@WaAaAaAaW 11 жыл бұрын
Actually, I think advancements in robotics could be dangerous. But not in a science fiction kind of way. Where will those workers work if they are replaced by machines? I know that inevitably this will be the case. Social unrest is imminent, or maybe the 'machine owners' (aka: capitalists) will give them a little bit of money to soothe them, in the hope that the workers don't unleash their anger at their 'private' property.
@WaAaAaAaW
@WaAaAaAaW 11 жыл бұрын
How does efficient living space guarantees higher well-being? Higher health and thus life expectancy has overcrowded our planet in the first place. And people don't seem happier... Some would even say that people feel less good nowadays. Plenty of people in rural areas (like in France or Argentine) seem so happy and careless, without using all those technologies like we do. Btw: I hate rural areas, and I love technology. I'm not a crazy hippy (sorry hippies, nothing wrong with you guys :P).
@johnbright7518
@johnbright7518 11 жыл бұрын
(4)... Research in Robotics & productivity - Don't tell me that advancement in robotics is not needed when we can obviously put people into slave labor. Having robots/machines perform manual labor helps economy through efficient manufacturing, food packaging & distribution, and resource refinement. Researching space travel - b/c of resource scarcity, it seems that resources do not only have to come form Earth, we have solar system full go resources. If only we had the means to exploit them.
@johnbright7518
@johnbright7518 11 жыл бұрын
(3) ... Research in education - If you live in an industrialized, civil, democratic nation you'll know that in the public school system children are taught fundamental pieces of knowledge that have been accumulated over the course of human existence. Having a teacher profess their knowledge on a subject can be challenging while trying to gain the attention of numerous not-yet civilized kids. New ways in which to teach kids so that they better learn &understand material comprehensively is needed.
@johnbright7518
@johnbright7518 11 жыл бұрын
Medicine/medical treatment - people on the brink of death may have again the chance to recover to full health. No one wants to die unless they're pathologically compromised. Energy Generation - finding new technological solutions to solve today's energy crisis is necessary b/c burning fuel is proven to be have devastatingly negative effects on civilization & the Earth's biosphere. Transportation - for the masses of people who live in metropolitan cities, efficiency in transportation is needed.
@Jedi3231
@Jedi3231 11 жыл бұрын
I felt that throughout the video Greene gave a weak argument, but he really hits it when he says, " building discipline, being able to practice something over a long period of time, and being able to focus" are the basics to mastery (2:55-3:02). It was an interesting take on a topic, but I felt his premises were a little shy from convincing. In the end, conclusion is what really made this video worth watching. Still not subscribing to Big Think Mentor though...
@Fascistbeast
@Fascistbeast 7 жыл бұрын
I've got the book bought 5 years ago collecting dust "guilty" I will read it
@johnbright7518
@johnbright7518 11 жыл бұрын
(2)....Construction - the more complex, the higher we build, the more we try to create efficient living space in crowded cities, is the the reason why innovative engineering is needed in this day & age. Coexistence w/ other organisms - Over 7 billion people exist on Earth. There's only so much room for both humans & other forms of life. Creating a way in which life can survive and both equally thrive while coexisting benevolently is desperately needed.
@WaAaAaAaW
@WaAaAaAaW 11 жыл бұрын
You seem like a technocrat. Then why not abolish humanities and replace it with 'how to efficiently find entertainment' and 'how to efficiently create entertainment' and 'how to efficiently market entertainment', etc etc. A bit like a Brave New World. Everybody seems happy there, so maybe we should take that road :D
@reedca97
@reedca97 11 жыл бұрын
i think that there are a lot of people who'd like to think they're a DaVinci,but that is unfortunately not the case.
@LumpSphinx1
@LumpSphinx1 11 жыл бұрын
Oh come on man, we had a tyson video last week. I love those guys, but bigthink cant and shouldnt just be kaku and tyson making all the videos. Bigthink is for a broad education, not just learning about the sciences.
@Beemer99
@Beemer99 11 жыл бұрын
Robotics could take care of jobs that don't further the advancement of society, and those people can be re-educated to further progress society. Focus on brains not brawns.
@mattderrin4940
@mattderrin4940 11 жыл бұрын
We, being the members of society? If not us, then who?
@Blackdragon1331
@Blackdragon1331 11 жыл бұрын
Yep, i think he's using the word in the more poetic sense.
@Alansr10
@Alansr10 11 жыл бұрын
Kaku this.. Tyson that... Why are some people bagging on this guy? Just take the info and go. Can you all just try to be a little more open and broad??
@megaxthunder
@megaxthunder 11 жыл бұрын
Can I ask something? Why can't I watch the new video with Michio Kaku? I am from Greece and it is not available here! Just WHY??? PLEASE ANSWER
@PopsGribs
@PopsGribs 11 жыл бұрын
The notion that the human brain was created is flat-earther silliness. This self-help guru is not a scientist. He has a B.A. in classics.
@Rhobyn
@Rhobyn 11 жыл бұрын
But these aren't things you directly apply. If you want to DO something with your information, you will have to dig deep.
@GalacticAstroparticles
@GalacticAstroparticles 11 жыл бұрын
Digging deep into a subject is lacking in today's society (i can see that on myself even). But, of what value is a man's life, if not the multitude of areas/subjects he has immersed himself into and the spectrum of his knowledge/interest. What today's society is lacking, is not the obedient desk jockey that works 18 hours/day, but the "renaissance man", the man who follows the example of the work of people like DaVinci...
@troyarmstrong434
@troyarmstrong434 11 жыл бұрын
This is a fallacy. It takes 15% to regulate breathing and heart rate. We use 100% of our brains.
@Zenobios
@Zenobios 11 жыл бұрын
One minute he talks about evolution, the next he says the brain is designed. Make up your mind.
@What0TheDeuce
@What0TheDeuce 11 жыл бұрын
OF COURSE the new channel is unavailable in my country. Google is such a nice little company.
@MrBadlemon
@MrBadlemon 11 жыл бұрын
Jeremy.. What are the parts that are not insightful? I mean he makes a whole lot of sense
@CDoomer
@CDoomer 11 жыл бұрын
Because that's how long it took from single cell organisms to evolve into other types, and later... into humans. It isn't that hard to understand.
@heather-vs9qe
@heather-vs9qe 3 жыл бұрын
You talking about AI and the human brain Question is this the future.. Help
@stuckupcurlyguy
@stuckupcurlyguy 11 жыл бұрын
"masterpiece of design" ... kinda poor choice of words there if you're a scientist
@GalacticAstroparticles
@GalacticAstroparticles 11 жыл бұрын
Money is the only issue that keeps most people studying 1 particular subject for the least time possible, and then getting a high paying job as soon as possible. That will help yourself financially, but will kill you creatively. The thing you have to seek for is balance, i think. Find which one of the subjects you would like to study the most, then study it, and then start studying a Master/PhD on another, etc. The biggest limit is money, so when you feel you should, take a temporary job.
@JungleJargon
@JungleJargon 11 жыл бұрын
Science is knowing and you can't know about what never happened. It not about religion, it is about the observable evidence that we have a Maker of the programmable programmed matter inside of us that cannot make or program itself. There is no way to get a transformation or uniform morphing from variation of the same thing without specific directives. There is not need to credit objects with what they are not able to do.
@VexylObby
@VexylObby 11 жыл бұрын
Is it wrong to be an expert at multiple things, rather than a master at one?
@GorgonDrageil
@GorgonDrageil 11 жыл бұрын
Smartass level: Master
@darkdragonsoul99
@darkdragonsoul99 11 жыл бұрын
jack of all trades master of non often times better then a master of one
@TheBoredPhysicist
@TheBoredPhysicist 11 жыл бұрын
No, being a victim of an accident at a paint factory is what makes your life colorful.
@minciNashu
@minciNashu 11 жыл бұрын
according to you we are beyond even spelling their names right
@MOUTHTROMBONE
@MOUTHTROMBONE 11 жыл бұрын
HE is absolutely correct...however, psilocybin mushrooms can help you with higher brain functions that he is talking about, but if you use them the right way. I loved 48 Laws Of Power!
@WaAaAaAaW
@WaAaAaAaW 11 жыл бұрын
So you really think that everyone can be re-educated? Not everyone is born with same intellectual (speaks for itself), creative (speaks for itself too) and emotional (stress resistant, motivation, etc) potential. However, science could possibly, and most likely will in the near or distant future, make people more intelligent, emotionally more resilient and more creative. On that day, we will be (boring? :P) homogeneous creatures without flaws and differences.
@Aceionz
@Aceionz 11 жыл бұрын
Whenever someone, who sees themselves as a ''thinker'', like this man, says that something is never going to happen, it is almost impossible for me to view them as completely open minded. We have been proven wrong in our assumptions about the future time and time again, so it is starting to become apparent that it is unjustifiable to state that something is ''never going to happen''...how the fuck do you know that?! They thought it was flat for god sake!
@Lahdyn
@Lahdyn 11 жыл бұрын
The singularity in theory, is able to change that.
@WaAaAaAaW
@WaAaAaAaW 11 жыл бұрын
All what I said are well known to me.You didn't really understand what I meant. I will respond to every reaction nonetheless. -- It can make his life more bearable and avoid some unhappiness. But, still, like I said, it depends from person to person how a certain cure or the lack of cure affects him. However, it's true that for the majority of people, medical interventions will have a positive impact on their well-being. But it's not a general rule, let alone a casual relation.
@johnbright7518
@johnbright7518 11 жыл бұрын
Could it be that being a "Renaissance man/woman" is now what one might consider an antiquated goal? When Greene gave the example of the woman who created the field of neurobotics, he mentioned that one has to become a master of the of the older masteries to innovate. What I think mastery is in Greene's terms is the usage of old masteries (what is known) to from new ones. Sure, knowing a variety of stuff is important, but discovering what is not yet known is just as important- maybe even more so.
@WaAaAaAaW
@WaAaAaAaW 11 жыл бұрын
How can I be a luddite if I told you that I detest rural areas. Furthermore, I have grown up with computers and programming while the other kids were playing outside. I just don't trust the world we are in now, and I believe there are legitimate reasons for that.
@1aMattes
@1aMattes 11 жыл бұрын
in my opinion the individual has much more fun jumping from topic to topic rather than digging really deep into just one field. i like bodybuilding, numerical simulations, cycling, quantum machnanics and so on. the larger the bandwidth to the lower the amplitude. but isnt it the spectrum what makes your life colorful?
@bishnu251
@bishnu251 11 жыл бұрын
yeah u'r correct man...... any thing doesn't come up after at all 1 night but it takes a lot of hard work and dedication..... :)
@massive223
@massive223 11 жыл бұрын
who cares about how he's written it, its about what he means by what he's saying. The message still gets across regardless of whether or not he said Da Vinci or DiVinci...
@miguelrothe6943
@miguelrothe6943 11 жыл бұрын
Well that's the message of this video isn't it, one can be a Renaissance man (or woman), but only with the sufficient attention span and determination it requires to master (to gain such a proficient knowledge of something so as to be able to apply it in ingenuitive and field-advancing ways) several fields, sometimes combine them, as in the case of neurobotics. A Da Vinci-esque mastery of a variety of subjects, while important, is simply very difficult, but far from impossible. Nice language OD.
@lookyesh
@lookyesh 10 жыл бұрын
lol subtle nzt-48 reference.. RG is a genius, this comment coming from a genius
@jackbauer8460
@jackbauer8460 4 жыл бұрын
do you feel limitless?
@arvinrobles1350
@arvinrobles1350 10 жыл бұрын
Viracious HONEY BADGER LEOPARD kill in the trees!
@syddiallo
@syddiallo 11 жыл бұрын
It's a shame this is his first time on Bigthink. Greene is arguable the greatest non-fiction writer of our time.
@GalacticAstroparticles
@GalacticAstroparticles 11 жыл бұрын
I'm a Greek-Cypriot, so i'm lucky enough to have had the option of getting a spot in a Greek public University through good grades in high school. So if you study hard enough in high school you can get into a public university, which is FREE of charge (+ Greece has always been a pretty cheap country to live in). + in the Greek system, you mostly get that general education and not the more focused, specialized education that other countries give. And i think this is great for the first degree...
@lukewilley123
@lukewilley123 11 жыл бұрын
maybe for some people I find it hard to let go of a topic (cosmology) even if the other topic is similar
@maokize
@maokize 11 жыл бұрын
your spectrum will be somewhat bland and hazy.
@miguelrothe6943
@miguelrothe6943 11 жыл бұрын
highly disputable. Forgive me for reading into your words, I am simply making a general point.
@jmac217x
@jmac217x 11 жыл бұрын
That being said you can't fully comprehend what he's talking about then.
@HolographicSweater
@HolographicSweater 5 жыл бұрын
kinda dumb
@thinkandexplore
@thinkandexplore 11 жыл бұрын
evolution designed the brain
@joltmeoff
@joltmeoff 11 жыл бұрын
* as opposed to compleatly obvious
@riderlibertas2580
@riderlibertas2580 11 жыл бұрын
That 10% thing is an urban myth.
@gdogvibes1
@gdogvibes1 11 жыл бұрын
It's 4am in the morning.... Friday night... fifth time I've done this on a Friday... I've am 'Forever Alone Master-bater'
@OlatundeAdegbola
@OlatundeAdegbola 3 жыл бұрын
What about now?
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