Robert Heinlein - Rise - Extra Sci Fi - Part 1

[@extrahistory]

Robert Heinlein is one of the most controversial authors in the history of science fiction. But like Heinlein’s own exploration of the philosophies he espoused, no look into his life can totally do it justice.

[@TronusDono]

Noice

[@robertwalpole360]

*Buckles up for those controversies*

[@Cajek2]

Libertarian and fascist? Not a new idea.

[@Cajek2]

AGEEL ABDULAALEE essentially, you have the revenge fantasy that - in 2025 - there will be 5 trillionaires in america and the rest of us will be fighting over a single hot pocket

[@michaellewis1545]

FYI Starship Troopers is on the U.S. Marine corps reading list. That means all Marines should read that book at least once

[@questerperipatetic4861]

I've read everything he ever had in print. When I learned he had just died, in my late 20's, I sat on my bed and mourned losing a childhood friend. I had yet to read Podkayne and kept putting it off, knowing it was my last story. I finally finished it with almost a tear. No other author ever moved me the way Heinlein did.

[@5400bowen]

Ditto, but much earlier than you.

[@Professor_Slappy]

Citizen of the Galaxy was the first book to actually expand my world view.

[@5400bowen]

@@Professor_Slappy I read everything he wrote up to 1969 by that year when I turned 15, and “Citizen” is definitely in my top 10. He’s still my favorite author.

[@dylanchouinard6141]

It’s time for ‘Deep Thoughts With Heinlein’

[@r4y0fth3sun5]

Overly Sarcastic Productions?

[@justhjon2217]

"All human advancements were motivated by the promise of HOT STEAMY SEX"

[@georgethompson1460]

@@justhjon2217 I mean... he's not wrong.

[@troyklein6379]

Cannibalism, is actually okay

[@plcthelegacy4131]

That concludes our 'Deep Thoughts With Heinlein'

[@justafaniv1097]

I'm glad there will be a part 2. Because I would like to know more!

[@MidnightChemist]

Justafan IV I see want you did there, but that line never appeared in the novel. That was a movie exclusive.

[@justafaniv1097]

I can't say I'm surprised (given it was from the propaganda broadcast in the film that were clearly satire). But it just worked too well to resist. The movie may be similar in nothing but name, but boy howdy is it quotable!

[@colonelclank2422]

I'm terribly pumped that there have been rumors of a remake of Starship Troopers. I've always thought that the Paul Verhoeven film was a fantastic piece of satire, and a really entertaining movie, but I always wanted to see a portrayal of the Mobile Infantry as described in the novel as well as the Arachnids having the advanced technology as described. I imagine that a modern take on the book could have such amazing visuals and action sequences. I want to see a Drop with all of its chaos, because the idea of an Orbital Drop Shock Trooper has been played with a tonne in more modern sci-fi, but nobody has shown it with the same complexity that the novel did. I also loved that Heinlein's main characters/heroes were not always physically perfect people, In TMIAHM the main character had prosthetic arms that he could interchange depending on his need, and he still fit with Heinlein's Idea of the competent man.

[@brianhuss9184]

Colonelclank242 Agreed. The movie had pretty much nothing to do with the book, from its characters to its themes.

[@danilooliveira6580]

the 80's anime is actually more similar to the book, with the bonus of having amazingly designed and detailed Powered armors. but the anime is pretty much all during the training. though I really like the movie, there is a trash charm to it. its kinda sad that pretty much every sequel and other adaptations were absolutely awful.

[@TPRJones]

With a neglectful mother and my father out of the picture, reading Heinlein was the closest thing I had to having a parent when I was growing up. His later works (see next week's episode) became the foundation of most of my early ideas about politics, economics, and societal justice. Of course it's very important to note that what he wrote was fiction and his characters often said and did things that had no relationship to what he himself believed. I took his writings as a variety of examples of world views from which to pick and choose rather than some sort of monolithic sacrament.

[@5400bowen]

I had a similar childhood. But with the earlier stuff. I didn’t like some of his later stuff nearly as much.. And I have said many times what you said about him not necessarily believing in everything his characters said. He was experimenting with a lot of ideas, and it was to make you think, not believe.

[@anjinmr]

That's one of the things I loved about Heinlein's writings. I couldn't care less about what he personally believed. What he wrote was about how the future is not just about advanced technology. It was also about how societies and morality in the future might not look like it does today. P.S. Hello from six years in the future.

[@laturnich9507]

Honestly "Boy Scouts in Space" sounds like an amazing concept for a show. I worked at a Boy Scout camp every summer in High School and it was hands down the most fun I've ever had. Throw in some sci-fi space adventures and a nice helping of satire and you have the beginnings of something glorious.

[@geraldgrenier8132]

Read "Farmer in the Sky"

[@AmityvilleFan]

And they kill the heathens! Don't forget to add that.

[@pcuimac]

Latürnich "Boy Scouts" is a religious boot camp for young people. They lure you with candy and activities. Later they expect you to share your money with them and recruit the next generation to abuse. Did I mention they also abuse boys on a massive scale?

[@rmsgrey]

+pcuimac I must have been part of the wrong scouting organisation then - we never got candy (nor abuse, so I guess it averages out).

[@LightBusterX]

Latürnich well, the concept of "boy scouts in space" and all it implies sounds a lot like DuckTales to me...

[@beastialmoon2327]

I remember reading Heinlein in high school and falling in love with his way of writing. Stranger in a Strange Land helped me think beyond my religious upbringing. Job, too, was a strange journey. Tunnel in the sky was a fantastic subversion to Lord of the Flies. Perhaps my favorite story of his, however, was the 1958 short "All You Zombies." It was exactly what I had been searching for in a time travel story. Better yet, in 2014, it was made into a movie starring Ethan Hawke called Predestination. And honestly? It's one of the best text to screen adaptations out there. I highly reccomend both the story and the film for people interested in fun time travel stories.

[@jackielinde7568]

I think I have to say that my favorite was Friday, but that was also the first book of his I read. I would go on to read Stranger in a Strange Land, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Starman Jones, Starship Troopers, and The Cat Who Walked Through Walls. I didn't enjoy the last one, only because the fourth wall breaks were way too jarring, as was the self aware meta. I did like The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, since it'll probably dictate how our early space colonies will look like (and suffer) in the future.

[@MSTRCMDR]

BeastialMoon just wanted to highlight your point: predestination is a must watch

[@kevinhurd4258]

Totally agree.

[@nextepocskills]

Heinlein was the first author who made me fall in love with reading. I Remember as a teen reading just one more chapter of Starship Troopers until I had finished at dawn. He also does something that I consider the mark of a great writer: He makes me want to write.

[@manlystranger4973]

As a lifelong fan of Heinlein, I do see the Competent Man character you describe in many of his writings. However, almost every Competent Man in a Heinlein novel sees themselves as incomplete and ignorant with a thirst for more knowledge and experience to fill their perceived character gaps. Every Competent Man has as a hero a more Competent Man. It is these two pieces of the Competent Man which gives him the will and desire to live through even the worst of circumstances.

[@Kenshiro3rd]

Manly Stranger yeah but when you look at their skill sets they are bordering on John Galt levels of Absurd... thus often making their perceived deficiencies seem equally absurd if not disingenuous.

[@stevejordan7275]

Kenneth Eaton Not so. Though a book hero might have more than the usual dosage of skills, it's meant to be an aspiration. ("All I know is that I know nothing" isn't about how much you know, but about continuing to learn. Some knowledge becomes useless [DOS commands, anyone?] so keep adding new knowledge to your brain. "The Competent Man" may be out of reach for the subaverage intellect, but it's surprising how little you have to know about something to have a good grasp of its fundamentals (Example: How much training do you need to have about fishing to do it well enough to survive? A single book could impart such knowledge; that's what the Boy Scout Manual used to be.) Learning more after that is much easier than becoming a super-expert in some narrow field. I'd rather have a small team of generalists than a large team of specialists. Even those generalists will have individual strengths. Still, in today's highly technical world, there is a blizzard of new stuff to know about a variety of topics; it's hard to know what to stay focused on. So learn about things that are most likely useful. Some of them will be more interesting than others.

[@Kenshiro3rd]

Steve Jordan Steve Jordan I am aware. And I know fully what you talk about. It's something I use all the time. I grasp the fundamentals and extrapolate from them to feel my way through things, see the larger picture, and possibilities. I'm just saying it could get a bit ridiculous [in his books] at times, IMO. The problem with his "competent man" archetype is that they were were often more than competent... absurdly so. Often times they felt less like well rounded and competent and more like experts or prodigious naturals at most things. Thus, I sometimes found myself pulled out of his stories and calling bullshit. PS. DOS commands STILL come in handy. It's why don't use a front end for DOSBox... and instead load it up and run it like an actual DOS computer with my drives mounted in order to run install and play disks as I normally would. They also come in handy on the command prompt. You'd be surprised at just how much a knowledge of DOS commands still applies. Not to mention knowing them gives one a better feeling for how operating systems are arranged, work, not to mention command priorities, and such.

[@chaos.corner]

DOS is still very relevant. To the degree that a few years ago, Microsoft decided to take it seriously and supercharge it to Powershell.

[@mattdombrowski8435]

It's worth mentioning that his most complete competent man, Lazarus Long, starts one of his books suicidally depressed and only really recovers after surrendering himself with people who can constantly put him in his place.

[@brianhuss9184]

The one theme that seems common throughout all of Heinlein writing eras is the theme of individual responsibility. Its in Rocket Ship Galileo, The Green Hills of Earth, Starship Troopers, Citizen of the Galaxy, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Friday, etc.

[@acepedro12]

Starship Troopers is one of my favorite books ever and I'm deeply offended that those space marines are not wearing powered armors.

[@Alpenjodler1]

The immobile infantry :-D

[@lewis7315]

@@Alpenjodler1 Yes, they have powered armor...says in the story that if they run out of battery power they can't move!!!

[@5400bowen]

Among a lot of other things in the movie….

[@GodwynDi]

"Have Spacesuit, Will Travel" is still one of my favorite books from when I was a kid.

[@5400bowen]

That was one of his great ones. Do you remember the little stream of liquid oxygen on Pluto that froze up at night, what an image!!

[@swiftmatic]

"Skyway Soap! As Pure As The Sky Itself!"

[@wbrennan2253]

I am almost 50. I was a sophmore in college when he died. I have read nearly every book and short that was published. His views changed. Mine have, too. No suprise there. After "Number of the Beast," the stories became... odd. I read them, but not favorites. "Time Enough for Love" strikes me as my favorite. Still will read "Friday" and Starship Troopers" at the drop of a whim. "Podkayne" is too many years back. Have "GreenHills" for a short story fix. "The Roads Must Roll" and others... I really miss having most of these for my daughters to read.

[@taylorhancock5834]

Yay, a series on Hienlien. I've actually read quite a few of his books, so I'm excited for this.

[@blockmasterscott]

Citizen of the Galaxy was my absolute favorite by him. Loved it.

[@5400bowen]

Yes, such a great story.

[@AverytheCubanAmerican]

Thank you for doing Robert Heinlein. I was just researching his work until I got the notification for this video. Perfect timing!

[@JeffDeWitt]

If you haven't read any of his work do yourself a favor, don't just research it, read it!

[@tailgunner2]

A must read is "Expanded Universe" basically it's his attempt to clarify his beliefs through a mix of short stories and real world experiences. Like mentioned in the video, his time in the military, AND his time in Moscow at the Communists height, molded much of his mindsets, and fierce patriotism of American principles.

[@madmanvarietyshow9605]

Love me some Heinlein! Starship Troopers is one of my favorite books of all time.

[@sofajockeyUK]

I adore Robert Heinlein's middle period, specifically: Have Space Suit-Will Travel, 1958, Starship Troopers, 1959, Stranger in a Strange Land, 1961, The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress, 1966, I Will Fear No Evil, 1970 and Time Enough for Love, 1973. Certainly after that the plot was lost rather... Must download some again, though disappointingly I can't see all available.

[@michaellewis1545]

Starship Troopers is on the U.S Marine Corps reading list. That means all Marines should read Starship Troopers at least once.

[@GoranXII]

I think the Navy and Army have it listed too.

[@aarongerard7277]

Finally someone talks about Sixth Column. Besides Starship Troopers, it's one of my favorite books by Heinlein.

[@merrittanimation7721]

It's certainly better than Campbell's version

[@aarongerard7277]

Merritt Animation Yeah the original version was much more racist. Luckily Hienlein toned that part down enough, though he considered the book an old shame later in his life.

[@mikegrossberg8624]

Sixth Column had what I consider one of the best lines in science fiction: "ALL religions look equally screwy from the outside!"

[@hoobajoob1]

And he wrote ten books for young boys..., that skips over all the stuff he did In the pulps and the fact that a few of those books were aimed at young women, and his juveniles were some of his best work that got recycled in his later works as well (if I'm remembering correctly)

[@timmcdaniel6193]

1:07 *The Cat Who Walks Through Walls* was 1985, three years before his death. It does not belong in the early period. (In contrast, *Rocket Ship Galileo* from 1947 certainly does.)

[@jakarnilson]

Yeah, that's an obvious goof on their part, especially given that it's one of many of his late period that can count as sequels to earlier books.

[@babobibabo]

That was the only book of his I've read. I don't remember any weird incest or pedophilia in it, but it was certainly weird in plenty of other ways.

[@jakarnilson]

babobibabo It's probably the Lazarus Long series that they're referring to for that. Heinlein certainly played around with social mores, such as the extended mish-mash Loonie families in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress or public nudity in The Puppet Masters.

[@JeffDeWitt]

I'm pretty conservative and among other things believe that marriage is the union of one man and one woman, so the line marriages of the Loonies kind of threw me for a loop. BUT... in the context of their situation they make perfect sense.

[@old-moose]

Two of the reasons the read are; his well articulated ideas and you never knew what his next idea would be. THanks for this whole series on scifi.

[@1973Washu]

The moon is a harsh mistress is a great book.

[@davis.fourohfour]

As science fiction, his best.

[@5400bowen]

@@davis.fourohfouryou said it!

[@barrybend7189]

Can't wait for Frank Herbert as his books are very telling of certain political and religious problems happening today.

[@DivideByZeroGetCake]

I love Robert Heinlein and grew up reading his juveniles books! Though it was the early 2000s when I was first exposed to it. I’m so glad he got a series here dedicated to him!

[@DemitriVladMaximov]

I think Starship Is an excellent read, but mainly for how it addresses responsibility and doesn't shy away from the horrors of war. It is also extremely anti-facist while being pro-military. This the movie missed completely, which is why the book is far better.

[@GwyndowsXP]

DemitriVladMaximov Exactly! People can't seem to understand that pro-military does not equal pro-fascism.

[@hemidas]

Verhoven himself said that the movie was satire of Heinlein's ideas in the book.

[@DemitriVladMaximov]

Jovan Mitrić Yeah and that is why it is a very bad adaptation. The anime and 3d cartoon both are better versions of the story.

[@simonmagid4205]

The movie is okay but as for being a satire of Starship Troopers it is as if he made a satire of an entirely different book and just used the same title.

[@cutecommie]

Not all militaries are pro-fascism, but all fascists are pro-military.

[@frogfireFantasy]

I'm so glad you guys are talking about heinlein! My dad read me "The moon is a harsh mistress" as a kid, and it's my favorite sci-fi book to date! Can't wait to see what you guys have to say about it!

[@5400bowen]

His best. And my older brother read us “Rocket Ship Galileo” and “The Rolling Stones” when my middle brother and I were 8-9, and he was 16 in 1963. Started me on a journey that lasted until 1969, I read everything he wrote up to then.

[@filkinraous1806]

Yes! We're finally at Heinlein! My dad got me into Heinlein when I was younger with "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel." Still one of my favorites.

[@mikegrossberg8624]

RE: Have Spacesuit, Will Travel. Star Trek actually had a problem with Heinlein about the "Trouble With Tribbles" episode, someone fearing that tribbles were too much like "Martian Flatcats", as mentioned in the novel. I believe that a financial arrangement was reached

[@5400bowen]

@@mikegrossberg8624I knew right away the tribbles were the flat cats. It has been said he was in touch with Roddenberry, and approved the idea being used for free. Many authors of science fiction were purported to have done the same for fun and self satisfaction. Later he denied any association with tribbles. But I now firmly believe all the illness took a heavy toll on his sanity.

[@chaos.corner]

From this episode, I'm fairly confident you'll do Starship Troopers justice. Many other critics fail to comprehend what it's saying due to their own prejudices. Don't forget the powered armor. It's especially relevant for this channel.

[@LunyMilky]

So that's where the competent '007' man syndrome comes from! x')

[@frankharr9466]

No doubt there are others too.

[@5400bowen]

Many, going back a long time before either 007 or Heinlein.

[@hasiumcreeper5384]

If _this_ is a "cursory history", I can't wait to see what your deep dives will look like. EVERY BOOK will get the Frankenstein treatment!

[@Izandaia]

Here's hoping.

[@hasiumcreeper5384]

The "Frankenstein treatment for every book" thing _is_ pretty sustainable.

[@TJRex01]

Yeah, lots of material to cover here -- Stranger in a Strange Land and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress are two of my favorites, it's almost sad to know they'll get only a minute or so each.

[@fantasma0075]

I agree, Heinlein is my favorite author. Both Stranger in a Strange Land and Starship Troopers are two of my favorites, However I did really like The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. The man was a genius.

[@sonofthewolfguardianofthef1214]

I learned more about the books that inspired Frankenstein than about Frankenstein

[@fpedrosa2076]

What I really like about Heinlein is that, even when I disagree with him I still find it interesting to read his opinions and come out of it with a different perspective or a few extra thoughts to chew on. He's never dull or simplistic. I disagree with A LOT of Heilein's opinions, or the arguments he wove into his stories, but I still have huge respect for they guy, which is impressive. Not defending him so much as voicing my thoughts out loud. Also, he helped out Phillip K Dick despite the two being more different than wine and water (with LSD). Funny how these things turn out.

[@5400bowen]

He wasn’t always rxpressohis personal opinions. I think at the naval academy he learned the style of teaching of stimulating thought, like his teacher in Starship Troopers.

[@walterbenford]

One of my favorite authors. Can't wait for part 2.

[@alexis-loupcampeauvallee9764]

I wish these videos came out faster! You guys do such an amazing job!

[@omega4446]

Hey there, let's try to keep our facts straight here. It's not fair to bring up Sixth Column. He only wrote it because it was John Campbell's idea and Campbell wasnt a good enough writer to pull it off so he offered Heinlein a lot of money to do it instead. Even Heinlein said that it was way too racist for his tastes. Why are you guys being so hard on Heinlein when you glossed right over all the shady stuff Campbell got up to? For further research, I reccomend reading his posthumous autobiography Grumbles From The Grave.

[@davis.fourohfour]

Heinlein did his best to hose down Campbell's racism. It was enough to make it an interesting book about rebellion in a tech society. But Heinlein was not proud of it. We keep it in the "paid prose" section.

[@christopherbacon1077]

What are you talking about? They haven't even mentioned _Sixth Column_ yet. Or, IMHGO, the far worse _Farnham's Freehold_ .

[@5400bowen]

@@christopherbacon1077Freehold was a thought experiment, as was much of his work. People take his stuff as absolute personal opinions. A big mistake. Also, I learned recently that he stammered his whole life, he said it at a worldcon convention that is on KZbin. He was probably only so confident in his writings, and let others like Campbell represent him publicly.

[@Koriolis]

When it comes time for Frank Herbert, you guys better do a THREE parter at this rate.

[@JasonRobards2]

Reading Heinlein without having heard about the contoversy first was an interesting experience. His sci fi can be so imaginative and clear, but it also feels like the author was writing away some frustrations in life. The "competent man" observation is spot on. I've read 'the number of the beast' (one of his later works) and there "the competent man" is turned up all to the rediculous. 3 characters with 11 phd's between them (the doctorate in psychology was written while on holiday, because that field is quack). Also, their a space ship turns out to have previously unmentioned and exotic features with each new chapter. You could say it hails back to the old edisonades, but it feels a bit unhinged. As the story progresses the adversaries become more formidable and notorious (I remember they had to deal with wizzard of Oz somewhere?...), but each plot resolves with less effort and consequence than the one before. Near the end, it felt like the power trip of a ten year old. Just.... weird... IIRC, in "the number of the beast", Heinlein specifically comes back onto writing Stranger in a Strange land (which felt quite left-leaning, when I read it at least), dismissing it as something of a mistake and nothing more than a cash grab targetting the hippie movement. After having read that I have always wondered whether Heinlein switched ideologies, or maybe that I have misinterpreted Stranger in a Strange land. Coming back to this video however, the warning the commenter makes from 4.45 on needs a bit more elaboration. Why is this so remarkable?The message that the reader has everything figured out and the only reason they failed is because of some larger, often very important force, that has it out for them? Isn't this one of the hallmarks of YA?

[@joshuadarrow]

I would very much like to know more.

[@DunantheDefender]

As usual, the illustrations were majestic.

[@Chakravarti2911]

2:51 great dance step Heinlein

[@JohnJBrowne11209]

My favorite writing. My school library had Rocket Ship Galileo and Have Spacesuit Will Travel read both of them in 4th grade and never stopped

[@BannersglareTheDreamWriter]

3:38 ...as "Tomo yo" from "Disgaea 2" plays in my head.

[@LOGICZOMBIE]

Thank you for your contribution. I love your Roku channel.

[@JasonDoege]

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. -Robert A. Heinlein

[@inutaro]

Thank you so much! Stranger in a Strange Land is my favorite book! I love your guy's work and keep it up :3!

[@Raveler1]

I'm glad for your nod to Heinlein's earliest work on Social Credit and how he was influenced by working with Upton Sinclair - though I'd hoped you'd go deeper into it than just a nod. I'd love to see how Social Credit would work in our world today.

[@shawnheatherly]

The Competent Man... yeah, I can see how that character type being viewed as the norm would create a bad mindset in his fans.

[@shaider1982]

Shawn Heatherly is this the male mary sue?

[@johannesmakila2459]

It's pretty much basis for Gary Stu.

[@CanadianFabe]

yeah but the Gary sue is praised and accepted while the Mary sue is not. Just look at Rey from the new star wars movies.

[@chaos.corner]

It definitely leans a bit that way. I'd say that Heinlein's protagonists are more grounded in reality and more likely to have flaws but they're definitely a little bit over-competent. They're a bit more along the lines of the renaissance man or polymath model though.

[@Overhazard]

Heh, as Matt described "The Competent Man," immediately coming to mind for me was the sort of person my father really wanted to be: Talented at everything while having to rely on nobody. At the same time, or maybe because of that, he avoided anything that was likely to prove someone else was better than him. As my father was into science fiction, I wonder if he read any Robert Heinlein and took on this archetype as a role model.

[@hw5062]

Can't wait for part 2

[@bigrollinghome2091]

your description of The Competent Man made me think that the original creators of Doctor Who must have been Heinlein fans! :-)

[@TheCreepypro]

this will be nice always heard about him but never read any of his works so this series ought to help me know more about him

[@Izandaia]

Starship Troopers doesn't count as one of his more controversial works? Interesting.

[@dalibordvorak6528]

It's controversial but the controversy is actually pretty stupid when you realize that the system is more liberal than any country that has compulsory military service.

[@leadcloud]

Izandai I mean, they did mention that some of his pieces covered incest and child sexuality, so I'm not super surprised at that

[@jackielinde7568]

If you're making that statement, it means you probably haven't read Starship Troopers, or anything else by him. Trust me, he has some really weird shit out there.

[@Desim8r]

A lot of people's take on Starship Troopers comes from the movie which really didn't do the book justice. The movie also misrepresented/satirised some of the concepts quite excessively and failed to address some of the nobler aspects. Everyone fights, from the cooks to the generals they don't hide away while the troops die. Everyone drops, with generals and other officers first on the ground, and command suits have the speed of scout suits while still packing weapons for self-defence.

[@Izandaia]

You are correct, I have not read any Robert Heinlein. I only know Starship Troopers by reputation. I really probably should his stuff at some point.

[@mkvenner2]

I have been waiting for this one.

[@dnightwalker]

Sounds like the guy would of had a prolific career in the manga and/or ero-manga industry.

[@twoscarabsintheswarm9055]

I have never seen something I so agree with ever

[@unitfifty-five7372]

I mean if i am remembering correctly or somthing didn't heinlein sorta gave way to the power armor and real robot genre? In a way? Sense its the basis for many miliatry sci fi with power armors or mobile esc suits i mean if gundam got some ideas for the real robot genre from SST, and i remember halo got there master chief armor design idk if this is rumor or real , from the MS- spartan. But Idk if my memory is a 100% no idea but maybe im wrong.

[@dnightwalker]

@@unitfifty-five7372 I was just making a joke that there's a lot of stories revolving around incest in the manga and ero-manga industries.

[@unitfifty-five7372]

@@dnightwalker welp thats a big oooof x_x

[@5400bowen]

@@unitfifty-five7372I believe you are correct. I watched it all starting at age 8 in 1962, when our older brother read us “Rocket Ship Galileo” and “The Rolling Stones”.

[@shaider1982]

To the everlasting glory of the infantry!👍😃

[@therealGibralter]

Shines the name, shines the name... of Roger Young.

[@jackielinde7568]

On the bounce!

[@colonelclank2422]

Navy Does the Flying, MI does the Dying.

[@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS]

i'm doing my part

[@or_gluzman561Peace_IL_PS]

yes how do i join to the mobile infantry and get shredded to pieces by a bug because only good bug is a dead bug

[@stebhharn4676]

I read him in teens/thirties, and am realising what subliminally influences me

[@Arnsteel634]

My all time favorite author

[@bananasean5145]

I clicked cus im early but will watch when I have more time. Love this series!

[@lavendervonstaro4004]

Finally! Been counting on this for a while. You guys ever gonna talk about Orwell?

[@Zeldur]

2:43 My grandma has that cover in one of her guest bedrooms in a frame. Kinda odd but oh well.

[@angusmacdonald7187]

Heinlein always weirded me out. I was handed Stranger In A Strange Land in my 20s because my friends thought I was into drugs (I wasn't) and approved of the Free Love Movement (not really). I read the book and instead found an anti-drug message, "free love" that meant multiple Playboy-model-like women signing up to be sex partners with the 1950s embodiment of the Macho Male Hero, and strange Libertarian beliefs ... yet the book was loved by the post-hippies of the early/mid-70s. I read some more works by him (both his juveniles and his "adult") and found his view of women incredibly stilted and limited -- they were allowed "careers" that they rarely if ever actually practiced, but were mainly defined in terms of their being in a harem to the Ultra Male (who defined himself as "feminist" by allowing women careers ... which they never practiced). Free Love was allowed as long as multiple airbrushed women wanted to be with a square-jawed, crew-cut man, but not the other way around.

[@jfridy]

Also every strong woman in his books is based on Virginia, his second wife. Seriously, my Brother in Law grew up near them, and if you know Virginia Heinlein, you see her in every strong woman he writes after about 1948. She's a military veteran, strong willed, multilingual, outspoken biochemist and engineer. Oh, she's also a redhead. She maintained correspondences with Heinlein fans until her death in 2003, and even set up a Usenet group back in the day to talk with fans of her husband's work.

[@5400bowen]

You got into him too late and with the wrong book. I didn’t like stranger much, couldn’t finish it. But his earlier stuff, before he was so gravely ill were great if you started young. And stranger was popular with the earlier hippies. I know I was there and was disappointed that that was so overshadowing his earlier stuff, as I got into him as a young child a few years before hippiedom got going. Still, the first part of stranger had some good observations in it.

[@jediwulfric]

And now I'm going to imagine that Ron Swanson read Heinlien for 10 minutes and thought "Hmm, competent man, seems doable."

[@swiftmatic]

To be fair , Heinlein didn't invent "The Competent Man" archetype. E.E. 'Doc' Smith's "Lensman" and Verne's Nemo both predate Heinlein's work. There were elements if it in Asimov's early work, too. Trope? Zeitgeist?

[@Epic1138]

@extra credits long time viewer. I loved seeing James at GenCon! sorry I had to duck out of your panel early. was loving conversation, but my friend needed my help with somthing. Is there any chance you could make a video about the topic here? I really want to know more. (well, not in extra sci fi..... but, you know....)

[@31173x]

Starship Troopers isn't fascist, illiberal yes, but fascist no. The core of the book is that political authority should be given to those who are willing to sacrifice and risk themselves to have it. Most specifically through federal (not necessarily military, and this point is made in the book) service.

[@5400bowen]

He wasn’t always expressing his personal opinions. I think at the naval academy he learned the style of teaching of stimulating thought, like his teacher in Starship Troopers.

[@evannationarmy7769]

Extra credits, what history series will you do next? Btw, thanks for liking my comment in the video game jam picture! Luv u guys!!

[@lewis7315]

About al of his books available on u tube as audiobooks.... his best was / is "Time enough for love"

[@jimparsons6803]

Enjoyed the clip, thanks. I started reading S/F in the late 50s. Learned to read and expand my vocabulary that way, and the US was in the space race. A lot of official encouragements in that regard. Read other authors and genre' as well. Settled for S/F because of the 'competent man' notion. That 'Space Race,' so Uncle was interested in that mind set. But all genre' is about problem solving, S/F is just a little more up front. More recently with chat GTP, Uncle is apparently, interested in promoting that clever man or woman. Full circle here. Boggle.

[@History_Matters]

I'd like to see a video explaining the impact of world war 2 on science fiction

[@yuvalgabay1023]

Depends where did you lived. Of American its will be very optimistic. If European its will be like post ww1 books only even more psemistic

[@tristanseaver9054]

I loved every novel I've read of his, except for "Stranger in a Strange Land."

[@rparl]

Tristan Seaver The first time I read it, I couldn't finish it. Years later I came back to it and finished it. BTW, in Red Planet, one of his juvies, he introduced the idea that living Martians could talk to dead ones. And it was crucial to the plot. This concept returned in SiaSL.

[@5400bowen]

My sentiments exactly!!! I couldn’t finish Stranger. Read everting he wrote up to 1969, at age 15 of that year.

[@5400bowen]

@@rparlyes, I noticed the similarities between the two stories also. And ditto I couldn’t finish Stranger, though I moved on to fact science reading later and did not return to it as you did.

[@5400bowen]

Ditto!!

[@Sunny_Punkin]

I don't read much at all but the moon is a harsh mistress is one I recognized and that is a very good story.

[@stevenneiman9789]

Did anyone else see one of those "find out more" links from the Starship Troopers movie when they got to the end?

[@dolantrimp1691]

I hope you guys talk about the Lazarus Long series.

[@kingalfred2014]

Given that Lazarus is basically the quintessential example of Heinlein's "Competent Man" archetype, it seems likely that he'll be addressed.

[@scifantasy]

Getting through this without using the term commonly heard within the SF community for "the later period of Heinlein's life" is kind of impressive. It's more than a little derogatory (especially given that there _were_ health issues) but boy is it evocative: "The brain eater." (That might also be a reference to the similarity between an early Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters," and the 1958 movie _The Brain Eaters_, so similar that Heinlein sued and settled out of court.)

[@merrittanimation7721]

Will Frank So what is bad about it specifically? I've only read his earlier works so I don't know any specific examples

[@scifantasy]

As stated in the video...by his later works, Heinlein started writing what amounted to endorsements of incest and child sexuality, pushing his "liberate the Competent Man" rhetoric to something that, perhaps not consciously, leaned toward a "the Ubermensch is beyond man's ability to judge" philosophy. His character of Woodrow Wilson Smith/Lazarus Long became very much an Author Avatar in the worst ways, espousing Heinlein's philosophy not even in addition to a story, but _as_ a story. _Time Enough for Love_ and _To Sail Beyond the Sunset_ are his most notorious examples.

[@fugitiveunknown7806]

Yeppppp really don't recommend those last two, or Number of the Beast for that matter. Most of his other works are quite good, and his shorter earlier stories invented a lot of ideas we take for granted today in Scifi.

[@5400bowen]

Yes he got too weird for me later. I didn’t read all the later stuff. If I would have noticed the pedophilia I would have rejected it, and to some extent him, entirely. As stated he became very ill and not just at a later age. But the later illnesses, in my mind, destroyed his mind. He also rarely appeared in public, and he says he was a stammerer at one of the worldcon where he was guest of honor. He spoke of that, and you can see he was helped back to his seat. It’s on KZbin, I just watched it recently. But as a child and teenager hearing and reading his earlier stuff, well, he is still my favorite author.

[@stirfryrice1186]

I love this series!

[@clydebarnes8059]

You all should make a "Extra Fantasy" series

[@dylanflynn1895]

I've read many of his books, they're good

[@pettost8821]

awesome vid!

[@bobmutascio4739]

The Cat Who Walked Through Walls was not part of his jevenile years, but his late career.

[@chrispo7610]

Great video!

[@gummywurms226]

One of favorite of his books is Starman Jones.

[@thegeekgeneralist]

Every time I see the Competent Man, I cant help but seeing Walpole! Its the Competent Man with a wig!

[@johndunkelburg5143]

I still have some of his young adult novels. Interesting reads, but the books themselves are a bit thin and shallow. In a way, these novels are about the Competent Man coming into being through self-education and pulling himself up by his bootstraps to meet the needs of the situation.

[@5400bowen]

Just remember Heinlein had an absent father and neglectful mother. I always suspected that “Have Space Suit, Will Travel” started out semi autobiographical. Probably why, as I found out from his own statement, that he stammered. And probably why he got into so many fights at the naval academy.

[@Colleywoodstudios]

He wrote stranger in a strange land as basically like a fuck you going "AIGHT yall think i can only write faschy shit!? HERE A CORNER STONE OF HIPPIE PHILOSOPHY!"

[@gungan5822]

I love his books and the future history series. So far I prefer it over the Foundation series.

[@5400bowen]

Yes he was better than Asimov, my second favorite author after Heinlein. You know that Asimov read Heinleins’ first story, and said he copied his style as much as he could and never stopped doing that. After being into Heinlein and Asimov for 61 years I just heard that last week. I remember when I was 8, in 1962 seeing the Foundation trilogy in one hard bound copy on the ironing board in my brothers bedroom.

[@alexanderchon9058]

Isn't Ike from Path of Radiance part of the Competent man archetype?

[@johnaucamp7106]

2:47 Is that Gene Wolfe?

[@Wolfsgeist]

Erm, does "the competent man" remember anybody of Rick Sanchez?

[@sudevsen]

Will you guys Cover Bradbury?

[@drakan4769]

so... this is where the OP self-insert takes root?

[@Apotheosis-]

10/10 my favorite author

[@nw2kr8bc3t]

wait, Red just did a video on a stranger in a strange land yesterday, is it Heinlein's B-Day or something or is there a surprise collab coming up

[@spidery7618]

It feels so weird to listen to this after watching OSP's video on Heinlein

[@canaldoxerxes]

Finally a video that makes Heinlein justice.

[@Easy-Eight]

I miss the old announcer. He was fun.

[@turtleanton6539]

Very good writer! And good video.

[@johnschmidt1262]

Wow what is the deal with all the hating on the personal philosophy of the 1940s 50s and 60s? Heinlein competent man can be seen in every hero cop who chose not to follow orders and heck I guess technically Rey from Star Wars. What's really behind these kind of comments?

[@clydenorthrup5484]

4:40 Wait, SPACE BOY SCOUTS? WHY HAS NO ONE SNATCHED UP THE TV RIGHTS FOR THAT? THAT SOUNDS AWESOME!