Robert Wright on Evolution and the Future of Humanity | Closer To Truth Chats

[@gloriaharbin1131]

Love Bob, his books, and the diversity/range of his thinking ….been following him since Meaning of Life podcasts and now his Nonzero podcast.

[@gingerhipster]

Great rapidfire questions at the end. Solid interview.

[@394pjo]

It has taken 13 Billion years to go from a sub atomic particle to the Kardashians. This is as good as it gets for us.

[@steveng8727]

Yep Kim has more curves than the Daytona 500.

[@tobaidi]

What a gem to save and go back to! Thank you for this great discussion

[@andrewmoran7353]

Great Questions . Interesting perspectives , love subject in particular 👍

[@theeternalworldpicture]

Great point about going towards being a global community. We will get there. It is the only road to peace.

[@noel3830]

. . . and authoritarianism!

[@theeternalworldpicture]

@@noel3830 That is not a given. A world state could be democratic.

[@ryanbates362]

Sure it could, just like Amazon is a democratic company, McDonalds is a democratic restaurant, and Starbucks is a democratic coffee house.

[@simonhibbs887]

@@theeternalworldpicture A global community doesn't have to be a single state. While I'm pro-globalisation and freedoms of international travel, communication and trade, I'm very much against the idea of a world state. I think it's a terrible idea, we're much stronger as a species when we are diverse and have the freedoms to have our own national identities, and political systems. I'm a Brit and while I think Brexit was a disaster there is a silver lining in that it seems to have ended two risks in Europe. It's finished both the chance that any other country is likely to want to try and leave the EU because it's working out so badly for us, but also by showing that push back is possible it's also put a few nails in the coffin of the idea of moving towards a United States of Europe.

[@theeternalworldpicture]

@@simonhibbs887 There can be national states, but there should be some international laws that an international society has the power to enforce. I see our current earth as a place with individual states who sometimes do what they can get away with. We cannot do that as humans (to the same extend), because we have laws and the police. I think we need something to enforce for instance laws against wars between nations or else they won't stop. An international community or state is to me the only thing that can stop or at least reduce wars. UN is a step in that direction and I think we will take even more steps as we see more wars and cruelty in the world. That being said, I am optimistic about the future although there might be some hard times short term.

[@bakedalaska6875]

Robert Wright is 9:37 legit. He’s intellectually honest, I don’t agree with him on all but he’s a funny dude 😂

[@PhillipYewTree]

Jacques Monad’s book “Chance and Necessity” underpins the best thinking on teleonomy / teleology in Biology

[@Samsara_is_dukkha]

Jacques Monod

[@PMKehoe]

Robert was a grand choice; I don’t agree with his materialistic adaptive globalist views, but he’s always interesting to hear speak (entone)! :)

[@andreasplosky8516]

Interesting conversation.

[@mcnallyaar]

SOLID GOLD

[@rainmanjr2007]

I think AI will be ready for itself. Marvin's idea also sounds right to me. Give the details of society over to the AI and hope for the best. It can't do any worse than we have.

[@SandipChitale]

Once again confusing use of the word "purpose". Does bank of the river has a purpose to keep water in the river? I guess if we take the one interpretation of the word purpose...sure. In this case the word purpose means function. Note there is no intent in the bank to hold the water. The guest Robert Wright, seem to shift be shift between the functional meaning and intentional meaning of purpose. The biological evolution does not have any intentional purpose.

[@spike1910]

Religion without teleology: you can argue Buddhism or Zen Buddhism

[@rainmanjr2007]

Certainly Taoism or The Tao Of Physics.

[@christophermorgan3261]

There's nothing in this presentation that isn't already in Teilhard de Chardin.

[@samjannotta8384]

Perhaps all energy can “feel” itself and tends toward pleasure and avoidance of pain.

[@SandipChitale]

Cultural evolution is not same as biological evolution. The speed of Cultural evolution (many times within a generation) has left behind the snail pace, generation by generation advances of biological evolution by huge multitudes. We are at the cusp of Technological evolution which will supersede Cultural evolution soon (it seems).

[@sujok-acupuncture9246]

Just talk anything....

[@dotubeinn]

This guy is the Reader's Digest version of Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

[@Golgispot]

That is potentially an insult. Readers digest very little

[@mykrahmaan3408]

It is sheer absurdity to waste time, efforts and funds attempting to analyze nature to find out whether it has a purpose, instead of designing the purpose (PRACTICAL SATISFACTION OF THE NEEDS OF ALL BEINGS) we want nature to follow and then analyze phenomena SELECTIVELY for the sole purpose of implementing the laws we already formulated for nature to enforce. Although "observer dependence" of results of experiments in QM clearly indicates there are NO LAWS OF NATURE to be discovered, but we are free to chose the laws we want nature to follow and look for ways to implement them, yet scientists still strive to DISCOVER at least probabilistic "laws of nature", is similar to some slaves choosing to serve the former masters even after they were declared free, because they had no idea how to survive on their own.

[@dolpo5138]

he kinda looks like Vivek Ranadive

[@EXISTENCE1891]

Language and Culture are too big obstacles to overcome for a global community. I'm not optimistic

[@konstantinos777]

"Some people argue that consciousness does not exist". It's a made up term, general, relative, open to interpretation, often confused with other meanings, not having an exact translation, or not even used like that in other languages. other cultures mean different things, etc. etc. Do darkness, lightness, heaviness, coldness, hotness, highness, lowness, sadness, happiness, longness, shortness, ...unconsciouness exist? Well of course all of the above exist, as meanings inside a human brain and as such can only be used in context. Trying to explain any of those out of context is rather silly.

[@tedgrant2]

My Geology teacher told me that the earth formed approximately 4.5 billion years ago. According to Bishop Usher the earth was created at about teatime on 22nd October, 4004 BC. I wonder which is closer to the truth ?

[@Samsara_is_dukkha]

It was created at about breakfast time on the 22nd of January 4.5 billion years BCE.

[@stephenbesley3177]

@@Samsara_is_dukkha Was there coffee too?

[@gwilwilliams5831]

Coffee? Only instant.

[@MrLogo73]

It was poofed into existence by the eternal poof-o-blob, which is itself not a deity and which can only poof universes into existence. It did so last Thursday and you were poofed into the universe with all the knowledge as if you had lived your whole life. The poof-o-blob revealed it to me. Prove me wrong. 😃

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

@@stephenbesley3177 *"Was there coffee too?"* ... If you put instant coffee in a microwave, you can go back in time!

[@gingermckee1811]

Will the emerging global hive mind usher in a more egalitarian world?

[@rileyhoffman6629]

If you are young, it is up to you. Do it, or it won't get done.

[@andreasplosky8516]

In death all are equal.

[@SandipChitale]

Biological evolution is not an active process....it is a name of the observed statistical effect of what survives and thus has opportunity to replicates in the environment. It is also a dynamic and extended in time phenomenon. Mutations are random as expected, and contemporary environment acts as the mechanism to statistically retain organisms that are better able to survive (duh). The ill fitted populations by definition of ill fitted die (duh once again) and thus cannot multiply/propagate. And mutation and its chaotic/random nature and its effect on complex molecules that in fact have ability to express the variability is what allows this statistical phenomenon to play out.. Simpler molecules, because they have less degrees of freedom, cannot absorb too many mutations. There is no purpose - in the sent of intent of an agent - in evolution itself. Sure, the organisms, resulting from evolution can have purpose as in intentional behavior and agency.

[@SandipChitale]

Teleonomy not Teleology.

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

*Second Attempt:* Self-aware humans represent an *outsider critique* of Darwinian evolution. We can operate contrary to the edicts of biological evolution and even judge it on its own merits. We can declare it as unnecessarily brutal. Our subjective opinions about the brutality of nature is *new information* that "Existence" can use when scripting the next stage of evolution. In fairness, "Existence" didn't realize that its standard "predator vs prey" evolutionary template could be viewed as "wrong" or "shortsighted." Existence was only using the same "action vs reaction" template it had been using all along with inanimate matter. ... After all, why should "living matter" be treated any differently? However, after 300K years, humans now choosing NOT to kiII other animals to survive (and even rescuing them for their natural fates) sends a strong message to "Existence" that it really needs to start reevaluating its template. ... This is also why "Existence" requires outside observers. ... Outside observers help to keep "Existence" moving in the right direction!

[@simonhibbs887]

On the other hand human altruism seems to be an evolved behaviour. It's advantageous because it makes the group and therefore the genes of all it's members more likely to survive. So altruism itself isn't contrary to evolution. There do seem to be some feedback loops though in the evolutionary process, even without intelligence. For example the way that the immune system can disable error correction mechanisms in the DNA transcription process, to 'speed up' the variation in immune cell behaviour, when it encounters a pathogen it doesn't have an immune response for. We've been breeding animals and plants for our own intentional purposes for thousands of years. Intelligent editing of DNA and sociological modification of our own behaviour are the ultimate feedback loops into evolution though, and are real game changers in our own biological adaptation.

[@0-by-1_Publishing_LLC]

*"On the other hand human altruism seems to be an evolved behaviour. It's advantageous because it makes the group and therefore the genes of all it's members more likely to survive."* ... The only evolutionary template that has been thoroughly tested by more than one species is "predator vs prey." Humanity's ideal version of evolution (altruism) is only being tested within our own species, yet every day we stand on the brink of self-annihilation. Plus, you can't have a large percentage of humans hunting other species into extinction and another percentage trying to save them and argue we have any type of organized "new system of evolution." Our overall survival is enhanced more by our superior intelligence than anything else. Altruism doesn't really aid us in our overall survival beyond what our superior intelligence can already provide. We may seem altruistic on the surface, but that's only because our intelligence has provided us with whatever we need to survive; therefore, we can afford the appearance of altruism. Strip humanity of its homes, businesses, food processing, and toys and see how altruistic we are. *"For example the way that the immune system can disable error correction mechanisms in the DNA transcription process, to 'speed up' the variation in immune cell behaviour, when it encounters a pathogen it doesn't have an immune response for."* ... And at the same time, we have the smartest members of our species engineering viruses that counter all of the progress we've made in increasing health and longevity, and other "smart people" designing mass extinction level weaponry that can end our existence with the push of a button. It all comes down to "intelligence." *"We've been breeding animals and plants for our own intentional purposes for thousands of years. Intelligent editing of DNA and sociological modification of our own behaviour are the ultimate feedback loops into evolution though, and are real game changers in our own biological adaptation."* ... And we have large, organized factions in society actively working to eliminate the harvesting and exploitation of animals. For every Ted Nugent there's a Jessica Chastain. I will agree that being able to genetically engineer our own species is bypassing standard biological evolution and is actually something that I support. However, we aren't "internally organized" enough to be tampering with those types of mechanisms. The odds are greater for total disaster than for success. *Summary:* I think the way humans are designed allows for the "individual" to enact the greatest amount of change to our own evolution (and "evolution" in general). A single voice in a sea of chatter can cause a movement that effects our entire species. We see that happening on social media all the time, and it's something that was rare prior to the internet. Sure, we had certain individuals throughout history that sparked revolutions, but for every revolutionary who existed in the past, there are a thousand times that number posting on X today. With humans possessing "self-awareness," I see this as "Existence" changing the status quo and seeing what type of information the "individual" can produce as opposed to what entire species have been producing for billions of years. It's an evolutionary "template change" enacted by "Existence."

[@S3RAVA3LM]

What are relations? As the form of questions asked, determine the direction in which answers are sought out, too, relations have a similar effect, but not without its counterintuitive aspect, that being bias and partiality thus opaque vision. In a disciplined manner, however, having a more mutual and reverential relationship with or to something, certain layers will be revealed that normally wouldn't be. This is evidently clear: the best of sports athletes reach finer and higher levels in their activity because of a manic love and passion. And what this means: when a scientist loves, truly, that which is and has activity in, transforms into a Philosopher, mystic, theologian. Why persons can not acknowledge the lifestyle that is Philosophy: because they haven't an intimate mutual & reveerential love and longing for. This hankering, desire, longing, modifies the questions asked, thus deeper levels of realizations are in effect. Persons want to reify themselves, believing everything is matter, that there is not immaterial or soul. These - they're bereft; they haven't found themselves as of yet. The mind is a cocoon; the outer shell of a seed that must be broken out of for real progress to develop and unfold.

[@browngreen933]

All this purposeful intelligence evolution has given us is the means of premature extinction. 😢

[@Maxwell-mv9rx]

Blah blah. Guys are more interresting book sell his books ideia about reality are rubbish sentences.

[@Golgispot]

Express what you are trying to say more clearly

[@evaadam3635]

"Evolution and the Future of Humanity" The future of humanity would be dark, possibly extinction... Here is why, as follows : ...because the theory of evolution promotes the idea of ACCIDENTAL EXISTENCE which means you are never at fault, never accountable for whatever you are, or whatever you do, as all just consequences of ACCIDENT... ...in other words, if you are strong and powerful, there is nothing that can hold you to use your power to do whatever your heart desires regardless who gets hurt because, to you, doing right or wrong, moral or immoral, is just pure SUPERSTITION being just a product of ACCIDENTAL Evolution garbage.... ..and so, a Godless World would become the arena of battles between the strong and the powerful where wars never end until we all go extinct... Science and technology, without the guidance of faith that we are all children of a loving God, can be just a tool for greedy demonic souls to get all what they desires that may lead to DOOMSDAY.... ..and the more this WORLD abandons faith in God in favor of Darwin's IGUANA as the Original Mama, the closer the minute-hand reaches at midnight of Armageddon...

[@bozdowleder2303]

The exact opposite is true. If we alone are here, it is our responsibility to preserve this miracle, this one in a billion chance that we are here at all. The consequences will not merely atrach to an individual but to the whole species and its possibilities. The universe doesn't care for us or even for life in general. There is very little life in the universe and that little has had a precarious history of development. We're going to have to save ourselves. On the other hand, if you believe in a deity, the deity alone has any power. Humans have no power to wield any influence in the real world. An individual human has only one concern - to placate the deity out of self interest. Any bigger picture than that is outside your control. And we still live in a universe in which life is very scarce and that little has developed precariously through an inefficient process(99% of all species have died out), which suggests that the deity isn't even partial to life to general. Can such a deity be a loving father? Can such a designer even be a deity? It is in fact along this line that neither human action nor the human adventure can have any meaning. Life isn't a miracle but a casual creation by an entity that clearly has no particular fondness for life with nothing for humans to do that is consequential in the big picture, merely placating the deity for one's personal wellbeing. It is this way that there's nothing to look forward to.