Roland JUPITER-X vs JUPITER-Xm: FIGHT! My Thoughts on the Two Synthesizers

[@markmccann1]

Just got a Jupiter X this week. Haven’t went too deep with it yet. Just been playing presets and testing out the I-Arp. It’s been a lot of fun but would be good to have a total beginners video from you explaining some navigation etc. I’ll check if you’ve already done one but if not, would be great to see.

[@RobertSaintJohn]

Welcome! Best places to start right now: 1) make sure you’ve updated to 1.50 2) Watch this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/hGrSaYOoaJt-p68 3) Get my free JUPITER-Xpert Guide - bit.ly/jxguide 4) Stay tuned, video on basic navigation in the 1.50 system coming soon

[@markmccann1]

@@RobertSaintJohn thanks 🙏 will download the book and look forward to the new videos.

[@findmads]

How do feel about it now that you have had some time to get to know it?

[@DKS-SYNTH-LAB]

😃👏🏻 I’ve sold the X for the Xm only because I also have Fantom 6 in my setup, but the Xm is really an amazing synth in a small and compact form factor!

[@GrayGhostDog1]

I have the Xm as well, but was considering a 88-key workstation like the Fantom 08 for the graded weight action to practice my piano playing... do you think the Fantom 0-series and Jupiter X's have some overlap? Can the Fantom 0's install the expansions found on the Jupiter X's?

[@monaaarks7554]

@@GrayGhostDog1ils vont très bien ensemble ❤

[@RobertSaintJohn]

Wow, apologies in advance for all the “umms” and “uhhs”. Good ghod. I guess that was the only way to stretch it out to 15 minutes. In the future I’ll edit these down to the actual 3 minutes of content 🤦🏽‍♂️😄

[@rcmusic35]

Nothing that bad!

[@neuromancer9k]

Would love to see some videos covering the X/Xm related to the latest updates and the new Jupiter-X Model, if time permits. Thank you very much for all of these, Robert! 🎹🍻

[@sanchezproductions87]

very insightful. I was on the fence about which to go for but it helps to have somebody who has actually used both for longer than a week giving some information. Thank you

[@rmk918]

This video was so helpful to me. Thank you for making it. You explained what I needed to know about the two synths and it has helped me make my decision. Cheers! - Xm here I come.

[@findmads]

Great review!! finally someone talks more about the feel of the keybed, the tactile and emotional connection to the instrument, which in my experience has great influence on my creativity, playing style and enjoyment when I pick up an instrument.

[@andywickham1158]

Thanks for the time and effort you put into your videos. Just the right amount of detail and information. I got my X a couple of weeks ago and I absolutely love it and your videos have been a great help 👍

[@andywickham1158]

Hello mate! 👍

[@JustBlueFish]

Great video, enjoyed hearing about your journey and experience with the Xm and X.

[@howlinberry1645]

This was great thank you. I was thinking of getting the x to replace my XM , but I'll probably use the extra $$ to by the Teo 5

[@RobertSaintJohn]

@@howlinberry1645 I just played the TEO-5 last weekend for the first time and that’s a great choice 👍

[@DJFAUZINYC]

Great Video, THANKS ROBERT💯 I’m looking forward to seeing future videos. I’m thoroughly enjoying my xm, very rich sounds.

[@scarh91]

As a guitar player I must say I started my synth journey with a korg minilogue but I wasnt happy about the customer service. So I switched to rolands boutiques and it was so much fun that I recently bought myself a jupiter X. I also started just like you said to dive more into actually piano playing because of the 61 keys. I must say I was at first really overwhelmed about all the features and menue learning, which was kind disapointing but after a feew weeks I really started to understand the synth. Kind regards from switzerland!

[@cliffordnealon]

Thanks Robert. I enjoyed your insights on these to synths.

[@kingtrance307]

Thanks for the chat! Your very helpful and XM it is. 👍

[@LittleAmbientMachine]

Definitly help me with making a choice, thanks for your video!

[@sandkipper1]

Hi Robert, I was hoping you could help me with this. I just discovered that the scene presets in Banks 6 & 7 in the Jupiter X - Version 3.0 are not installed in the XM - Version 3.0. There is a specific preset called Kagami (06-05) that I heard on a Doctor Mix video that’s in Bank 6 of the Jupiter X. Would you happen to know how I could get access to the presets in Banks 6 & 7 of the Jupiter X so I could install them into the XM?

[@RobertSaintJohn]

The SVD file containing those Scenes is in the Jupiter-X and Jupiter-XM User Group on Facebook at facebook.com/groups/739514376567503

[@sandkipper1]

Thanks so much for this Robert! @@RobertSaintJohn

[@markonmac]

Thank you, Robert, for sharing your thoughts. I got my Jupiter-X last week. I love it to pieces but I am also a little overwhelmed. I would deeply appreciate any videos or articles on your website about it. The manuals are fine but don't go into enough detail about the features.

[@RobertSaintJohn]

Congrats on the X! I’m planning the next set of videos now, but in the meantime be sure to check out Roland Support’s own JUPITER-X playlist: kzbin.info/aero/PLmLJ2Wanv6-C-qbC5vWO0sieEoLC7eOey

[@WAGSU2BE]

Where did you get the Jupiter shirt?

[@RobertSaintJohn]

That was a special shirt that UNIQLO did in Spring 2020, one of a limited edition run based on Roland instruments. Roland does their own wear now with Roland Lifestyle, and I’ve nagged them endlessly to create some new Jupiter shirts

[@echorose7143]

Regarding the speakers, any other specific thoughts or notes? You mentioned a sub, how big of one and how do you run that? I’ve been considering the X as my living room keyboard (for relaxed improv and composing on). Speaking of - how are the pianos?

[@RobertSaintJohn]

The speakers on both the X and Xm are only 4W each, so it’s not going to get loud without distorting or fill a room, but good enough for that “living room” scenario, IMO. Sound is clear, but the speakers really only captures the mids and highs. The $120 Yamaha Subwoofer (NS-SW050BL) fills the gap nicely, but is much more powerful than the speakers. Easy to make the case for spending 2x more to get a good set of 5” monitors which are small and cover it all. But the X/Xm speakers + sub work for me for quick and easy performance without turning on the rest of the studio (I/O, Mac, Yamaha HS8s). Pianos are okay. Good, not great, not a lot of variety. I lean more toward my Privia for that, in part because of the key action, in part because of the great electric piano tones. X/Xm’s RD piano is fine in a mix or as a layer, but not very satisfying solo.

[@echorose7143]

@@RobertSaintJohn thank you so much for the feedback, and for everything you put up on this channel! And yes, definitely can see how just throwing a set of monitors on it might be a better choice, but for my specific use maybe I can get away with just adding a sub (especially if I throw a pair of decent headphones on a hook next to it for when I want to get more delicate in my sound design), and then I could always add some 5” speakers later. The other option on my list is a Korg SV-2, which has better speakers, a better keybed, and more of a focus on traditional keyboard sounds, but I’m a synth-girl at heart and wonder if the sound design limitations would help or hinder it as a compositional tool - gonna go to the local music store to check them both out ASAP! Another point I’m struggling with is that, if I get it, I might have to replace my Prologue 16 to get the Jupiter X, and I’m worried about losing the immediate simplicity and the ‘modern analogue’ sound. I know that the X does vintage sounds quite convincingly, and that it has the Zencore engine as well, but how ‘modern’ does the Zencore engine sound? (Which is to say, does it have a unique character that isn’t an attempt to emulate one of the old greats?) I figure with the focus on classic analog filter emulations it might not. The System 8 is another great example of a synth with a very nice, very modern sounding engine, in addition to its analogue elements. Cheers!

[@RobertSaintJohn]

@@echorose7143 Yes, S8 is just tremendously successful with it modern sound as well as the vintage, and the immediacy of the UI is hard to beat. Although the JUPITERs have similar immediacy with the classic models, the ZEN-Core tone design (4 partials, practically 4 synths to a Tone) does not have that same immediacy. The new Jupiter Editor is almost a must here. I say almost because Roland and its sound artists definitely managed to create hundreds of fantastic tones without the Editor (perhaps on the Fantom?). I love the possibilities and results of ZC tones, though. If cornered, I suppose I’d say “atmospheric” is its strongest point. But I have a harder time nailing down its analog character. Perhaps because of the Moog and Prophet filter modeling, along with its ability to emulate condition and age, ZC is too chameleon like to nail down. But if you can get past the UI learning curve, or ease it with the free Editor or Zenology (I have them both on a small MacBook Air, very handy), then the sound design possibilities on the X are near-limitless. Not hyperbole. If you haven’t already, browse these and see the breadth and depth of what’s possible: www.roland.com/us/promos/zen-core/sounds/ Check out those Wave Expansions too, as that’s where you’ll find some of the great piano, electric piano and organ tones that aren’t on the JUPITERs out of the box. I get the SV-2 desire, what a beautiful keyboard and sound. Was a strong alternative candidate when I was shopping digital pianos but I felt I needed a more acoustic style keybed for piano practice. I should add that the X keybed is just fantastic, best synth keys I’ve ever owned (and makes playing the S8 a little more frustrating... what I would give for an S8/S16 with a Jupiter X build... $2500 is probably the answer there lol) So definitely capable of being very modern, and the VA, filters and drift possibilities can keep it from sounding too “modern digital” over “modern analog”. But I can’t nail its character in a few words like I could a Prologue or Polybrute. I have the same challenge with Summit or Moog One; hard to define their character when it’s more like a cast. Being able to check X out in person will be a big help, though X is a bit difficult to comprehend when walking up to it. But you’ll get a feel for the build, and the Scene presets are very, very broad with some great sound demos. Many will default to complex I-Arp compositions, don’t be afraid to just hit the buttons to the left off to hear the sounds on their own. Thanks for the posts and I hope that hands-on helps you make the right choice. And there’s no rush, I know that the X/Xm will be around for quite some time. But with all the recent improvements and enhancements, now is definitely a much better time than a year ago to get one. A year of updates has allowed it to mature considerably. Good luck and genuinely hope to hear back from you again!

[@drakejensen6436]

Hey Robert ! You've been so helpful to everyone , thank you ! I was wondering if you would consider doing a video of what Roland used to do in their "quick start" manuals. How to edit and save ind. tones, how to build a scene from scratch , how to save an edited scene. Thanks again!

[@RobertSaintJohn]

That’s my plan for the next video (mentioned at the end of this one). It’s one of the reasons I wanted to get the X first, so that I could address the bigger audience, and really see for myself. Dealing with a Major Mac Mishap right after this video finished, but a video(s) like that is next on my list as part of the “Back to Basics” series

[@WAGSU2BE]

@@RobertSaintJohn awesome! Can’t wait!

[@tommyg5095]

Would you please explain what licensing or periphery purchases should or could be made to get all that can be got from these two synths. What total cost after the purchase of the synth is required to fully optimize the potential of these two, or other Zencore, or Roland cloud devices. Does a license purchase only cover one synth, or can that be applied to all you own?Thanks in advance.

[@RobertSaintJohn]

The purchase of a Lifetime Key for a Sound Pack or Model Expansion item gives you a license to add that item to any of your compatible hardware or software. For example, when I buy the Lifetime Key for a ZEN-Core Sound Pack, I can install it on my X, Xm, Fantom 6, and use it in Zenology, all simultaneously. The total cost required? That’s completely up to the individual as to whether they want to buy Wave Expansions, the two (so far) Model Expansions, the Model sound Packs, and the Zen-Core Sound Packs. In theory you could spend nothing, and still have a fully capable synth. Or you could spend $300 to add the JD-800 and Vocal Designer Model Expansions. +$300 for all of the Wave Expansions. And another $200 for all of the ZC Sound Packs, and another $200 for the Model Sound Packs to date. Or less if you go with a Roland Cloud subscription and put in some work. The *smart* path, IMO, is to buy only the $100 WC-1 adapter with Roland Cloud Connect, and just “borrow” the expansions and sounds at no additional charge while you have an active subscription (first year free). And that device/plan works for both my X and Xm and eventually (I hope) for my Fantom. But I could be on a desert island with only one synth equipped with factory settings (from the new 3.0 update), and be just as happy without all the extras. Okay, maybe I’d pay the $150 each for the two awesome Model expansions before going into exile 😄

[@tommyg5095]

@@RobertSaintJohn Very detailed reply. This is exactly what I wanted to go forward with my decision regarding the purchase of Roland's X. Thank you for the time and effort in this response to my Qestions. Subbed.

[@tomrogers2790]

Hi Robert, wondering what gear you sold that you didn't use?

[@RobertSaintJohn]

It’s been about 2 years since the last big purge, so I won’t remember it all. A number of the original Boutiques (I only kept SH-01A, SE-02, A-01), System 8 (Roland Cloud is enough for me), Novation Peak, System 500, AIRA effects, Digitone, Minilogue, Circuit, probably smaller stuff. Truly don’t miss anything other than the System 500 sometimes, but I was just never going to go all in on Eurocrack, and my semimodular synths like the System 100 and PWM Malevolent scratch the itch. Peak I used but got bored with it. System 8 I’d stopped using because I didn’t like the build. I never got on with the Digitone, and grew out of the Circuit. I stopped using most of the Boutiques as soon as I got the System 8, just took me awhile to let them go. And once I got the Jupiter X and the Fantom, there was a ridiculous amount of overlap, not to mention lack of space!

[@tomrogers2790]

@@RobertSaintJohn thanks for the quick reply! so you sold the Fantom as well? or is that still used? would you take the Fantom or the Jupiter XM as a one and only synth? the Jupiter X is out of my price range

[@RobertSaintJohn]

@@tomrogers2790 still have the Fantom 6 (not the 06) right above the Jupiter X, in the studio. The Fantom is the $3k one, so I’m not sure that’s the comparison you want. The Fantom 06 is more capable, full-size keys. BUT if you want those model expansions that come with the Xm, they’re $150 each. So you’ll end up spending more than you’d expect. However, the Fantom 06 still has the great Zen Core sounds and better piano, plus a real sequencer, and a big touchscreen. It’s kind of a miracle at that price. I can only guess that they sell it at a lower margin and hope to make it up by selling users a few hundred more in expansions. Personally I’d choose the Xm because I find the portability and included expansions a big plus.

[@tomrogers2790]

@@RobertSaintJohn Exactly what I was hoping you would say! thanks Robert!

[@Seekthetruth3000]

Good info. Do Jupiter Xm and Jupiter X have the same presets? Thanks.

[@RobertSaintJohn]

Jupiter X came after and included 32 additional scenes. Tone presets are the same

[@dennispena5496]

Hi. Is the X easier to use than the XM? The Xm looked complicated to use, especially the tiny display. :) I'm looking for my first synth.

[@RobertSaintJohn]

I do think the X is somewhat easier to use than Xm. More direct controls than button combos like those on the Xm for the same functions. But both are complex to navigate the multi-part, multitimbral interface. Both have the same display. I would not recommend either as a first synth. There are better, more affordable choices. Anything from the Korg Minilogue to the Sequential Take 5 or even the Juno-X would likely be better choices for a first polyphonic synth, IMO. I think it’s best to stay away from multipart synths if you’re just getting started, and really want to understand sound design. It just depends on a lot of other factors from cost, keyboard or desktop, whether or not you care about digital vs analog, type of music/sound you’re looking to do, and more. JUPITERs are at the high-end of the complexity scale.

[@dennispena5496]

@@RobertSaintJohn thanks for the feedback. I really like the sounds of the Jupiter xm/x and I've been watching videos all week of people playing and loving their Jupiter. I mainly play on my Nord Piano 5. And been wanting a synth to play with. I dont think i would get deep into sound design. I will prob just play with the presets and go from there. Thank you!

[@rcmusic35]

interesting thoughts, clear tone and down tempo speak (perfect for me). Nice setup too!

[@FourthWayRanch]

how do you get the sequencer to hold a note?

[@misteremagic]

Thanks rob ! As you know I love my system 8 and it will stay next to me forever . Somehow would Jupiter X crossover my system 8 or totally different species ? Regards from Hong Kong

[@RobertSaintJohn]

System-8 and ZEN-Core hardware sit in very different spaces. Lots of information and commentary out there about the difference between the two engines (S8 ACB more precision, more CPU intensive, fewer voices; X/Xm, ABM and less precise modeling, higher polyphony). But I’ve never been one of those who hears a *massive* difference between the two approaches, so I’ll keep it to the practical aspects, and set aside the recreation of vintage synths and tones entirely. First, the System-8 native engine is a thoroughly modern take on subtractive synthesis, and along with its FM capabilities, has a character all its own. And it’s brilliant in its simplicity and how very well the sound design is tied to its very hands-on, knobby interface. Its only weakness (IMO) is that voice count. Not that 8 voices is not enough, but that some potential is lost when in Performance mode, layering two synths/tones, and the polyphony is cut in half. If a “System-16” with more dynamic voice allocation ever becomes a reality, it would I think be a blockbuster. But I don’t think it’s a huge negative, as the same (or less) polyphony in a number of fully analog synths from Sequential, Arturia, and Moog (not even multitimbral) are rarely cited as weaknesses. One last note, as great as the S8 engine and layout is, I think it’s somewhat let down by a very average keybed and less than premium controls, as compared to the X. JUPITER-X/Xm and the ZEN-Core structure obviously have fewer limitations when it comes to polyphony and multitimbrality, but that comes at a price of complexity. The controls are premium and map mostly well to the vintage models. But its most capable engine (ZEN-Core itself) is twice buried: first, buried in the Scene/Part/Tone structure of the X/Xm, requiring a lot of attention required simply to navigate. It really lacks the simplicity of navigation of the S8 surface. Second, a ZEN-Core tone (where so much power in layering and multimbrality lie) is far deeper than the controls of the X/Xm can easily access. Not such a big deal on the screen-enabled FANTOM (same engine), but this is why the JUPITER Editor is such a welcome addition to the X/Xm arsenal. Having said all that, there are layered Tones and further layered Scenes on the X/Xm that are impossible to replicate at one time on the S8. And navigation and sound design is not impossible on the X/Xm alone, it just requires much more attention, research, and practice to unlock. In an either/or situation, the differences are clear and which you’d choose is going to be based on where you prioritize, your workflow, your other gear. Together, there is not IMO a huge overlap. I think many think there is because they both have these vintage models, and so much attention is paid to those. If you’re comparing one’s J8 or 106 to another (and that’s going to be 70%+ of the use of either synth) then there’s not much difference between fidelity, and more so in polyphony (one 8-voice J8 on one vs four 32-voice J8s plus drum kit on the other). But if you compare the native engines of either, that’s where your going to see, hear, and feel the least amount of crossover. Finally, in either case: if you simply don’t have room or funds for both, Roland Cloud gives you the ability to have the other in the space a capable PC takes up. RC AIRA and Legendary plugouts sound exactly the same as a System-8. RC ZENOLOGY Pro and Model Expansions sound exactly like the X/Xm. If you can only keep or choose one piece of hardware, go with the one with the hardware features you like the most, and let software fill the gaps to get the best of both worlds. Wow, I’m very talky this morning 😆 I’ll do anything to avoid mowing the lawn.

[@a2roland]

Thank You.

[@artmaster08ua81]

thnks much more.. obtained comp.inf , keep jupiter x as the in main..from ukraine . my last fantom x - some of ancient but very impress. key. hope to get J.X. its may be awes.. with resp & gratef. !!

[@park171]

Thanks for making this video. Need more does like this. Similar to some of the Alamo Chanel vids.

[@RobertSaintJohn]

I’m supposed to be teaming up with someone soon to do a pair of conversational videos like that, so stay tuned and thanks for watching!

[@gcoudert]

You need a 6-op FM synth (DX7) to go with it now, Robert!!

[@RobertSaintJohn]

Honestly, I’m pretty happy with software (Arturia) in that regard. I have a lot of (Casio CZ) PD hardware, but I go to software a lot for that as well. I’m not swearing off on big hardware (old or new), but I’ll definitely have to move and get a larger studio before anymore big keys come through the door

[@trebleboost7]

I have really grown to like my MODX.

[@jdtorian]

XM + Alpha Juno 2 = perfection **because I have no room for the X**

[@purpl3t1m3]

Gonna need that shirt!

[@kevinbirge2130]

I will own the X. No question.

[@johnc.4625]

Are the actual keys smaller on the xm? I realize it’s less keys I just could not tell if the keys were smaller.

[@RobertSaintJohn]

Yes, they are smaller keys. Not as small (or fragile) as JD-Xi, KeyStep, or microKorg keys. More like the “slim keys” found on a Korg Minilogue

[@Mopantsu]

Nice TARDIS

[@erickstanza8782]

Overall, does the X have twice as many features as the XM to account for the doubling of price? If not, do you think the doubling of price is fair? What do you think justifies the extra price in terms of features?

[@RobertSaintJohn]

When I got the X, it was $2400 (before the price hike in mid-2021) and the Xm was $1500 in late 2019. So for me at the time, it was easily worth the difference. And here in January 2023, I still own and use both. So now that I’ve got that out of the way… I look at the prices new now, $1700 and $2900. So I won’t characterize it as double. And the X certainly does not have twice the features. I think I’m pretty clear in the video: it’s the same synth. The X is bigger, more (and better) keys, full-size, a few more controls and less shortcuts. Otherwise, they are identical with identical capabilities and sound. The price difference is all in the build. If I had to choose one today, I’d probably stick with the X. It’s my favorite set of keys and a pleasure to play, even as a software controller. BUT one thing that didn’t exist back the was the JUNO-X. I haven’t touched one, I don’t know if its keybed is comparable to the JUPITER-X. But at $2100 for a full-size synth with many of the same features, model expansions, zen-core engine, and 10+ lbs lighter, I’d certainly be considering that instead of either JUPITER. It just depends on your budget and which UI and hands-on programming approach appeals to you most. The primary difference between the JUNO and JUPITER seems to be the build and their exclusive respective model expansions.

[@erickstanza8782]

@@RobertSaintJohn thanks for your reply. I’m in England, so the price points differ (not quite double, but close). All I’m really interested in is the sound creation capabilities as I don’t perform or play, so if they’re identical in that regard then I should get the XM, based on what you say?

[@RobertSaintJohn]

@@erickstanza8782 Absolutely. XM is the closest thing you’ll find to a desktop or rack version of the full Zen-Core engine and the Model Expansions in hardware. Like the Integra, but with keys. In fact, the reason I hold onto the Xm is because I can do all my design on it, and transfer it if needed to the X for performance

[@erickstanza8782]

@@RobertSaintJohn thanks mate, much appreciated