Roland vs Yamaha General MIDI Descent

[@MarshalArnold]

I think I prefer the Roland in most tracks, though the Yamaha has some good bass in the 1st track.

[@centereddev]

duuuude i remeber getting Descent on christmas and being obsessed with it! I had the hardest time remembering the name of it, thanks for reminding me!

[@stephenbaldassarre2289]

Who is General Midi and why does he make so many cheesy sounding modules? 😁 Great demo, thank you! I actually think I like the MU80 better.

[@JohnsonWang]

In facts, Roland is the BOSS of General MIDI. Almost every DOS Game based on General MIDI is composed with Roland sound moudles.

[@microodyssey]

@@JohnsonWang no. They not the boss of GM. They are just the part of GM such is the Yamaha and so on. Roland not the boss of GM)))

[@xalalalala]

@@microodyssey 😆 teach him 💪

[@nickguy6820]

Amazingly similar actually. I would've been happy with either in the 90s. Definitely better than the AdLib-era FM that most people would've heard, and a notch above the wavetable Sound Blasters at the time.

[@wexenhex]

some DOS games i actually prefer the FM Adlib synthesis, however Descent did really well with the MIDI versions

[@DhinCardoso]

17 minutes of pure eargasm - holy mother you are awesome (as always)

[@letsseewherethisgoes]

Honestly, overall I think I give the win to the Yamaha, but only because I prefer a brighter sound signature with clearer separation of instruments. The Roland sounds a bit richer at times and handles deeper sounds a bit better, but also sounds muddier whenever higher-frequency instruments are involved.

[@philscomputerlab]

+letsseewherethisgoes Thanks for your take!

[@LFOSyncToo]

I think I like the yam better (overall) because of the 'finesse' of the sound (I like the drums better, too). The Roland has got a 'rounder' sound to it, which is also very good.

[@philscomputerlab]

That's cool! Thank you for your input!

[@janricksamorin5351]

The Roland SC-55 sounds brighter and the basses are awesome, but the Yamaha MU80's drums sounds epic, I think you should try to compare the Roland SC-88(non-Pro version) vs Yamaha MU80.

[@ベンゲルのカナズミトム]

The S-YXG50 XG SoftSynth sounds like the MU80 when playing back this MIDI files.

[@mehdiqurbanli]

WOW, Huge thanks for good comparison. BIG LIKE !!!

[@djcata7474]

There is a difference in tone, Yamaha sounds brighter/more transparent than the Roland, which is thicker and bassy. Nice vid!

[@fen4ri]

HMMMMM, I would have thought the Roland would be a clear winner, but the longer I listen to both, the more I like the Yamaha's sound. There's some certain stand-out sounds that I just think sound better on the Roland here and there, but I think all of the instruments on the Yamaha compliment each other so well in all of these.

[@philscomputerlab]

A lot depends on the game! The Yamaha can sound nicer in many games, but try some other games and sooner or later you hear something and something sounds a bit off. In the end I keep coming back to Roland it's the most consistent accross all games.

[@faxisthefox]

First thing I did when I bought my Yamaha PSR-E313 keyboard and USB to MIDI cable - I fired up DOSBOX and piped it through ... soooo sweet.

[@TheExaminedLifeofGaming]

The video and live switching effect was great, but it looks like it's a ton of work!

[@philscomputerlab]

This one was a lot of work because of the amount of songs I included. Really a few songs would have been fine to get a general impression but I got carried away a little :)

[@CaptainDangeax]

Back in time, I had an AWE32. To achieve an equal sound quality, I had to beef up the card with 8MB of RAM, and load a 8MB sound font.

[@sfurta]

The Yamaha MU-80 sounds a bit different in GS compatible mode - TG300. Especially drums in games may sound incorrect in XG mode. XG is not very useful in games, e.g. drums Duke Nukem 3D are not playing correctly. The first track uses the TR-808 drum set, called Analog kit on the Yamaha. There are 2 versions of this kit in the MU-80. The XG analog kit patch 127/026 and the TG300 patch 000/026. They sound different, XG is more pronounced, deep, as we can hear in this video. By the way, the video is very good :)

[@philscomputerlab]

Cool, I didn't know about any of this.

[@sfurta]

I never said it is not 100% compatible. It just needs to be switched to TG300 mode, called like this due to some legal stuff. I am talking about MU80. It even has the LAPC-I/CM-32L mode called C/M, which is horrible :) Descent doesn't use GS instruments, only GS drums.

[@Logan912]

My MU100 automatically switches to TG300b mode for GS sequences (which isn't the same soundset as an actual TG300,) but I don't know if the MU80 does that.

[@EpicureMammon]

I know that this is an old video, but it's interesting how the bass sounds are equalized. If you had smaller desktop or even bookshelf speakers, the Roland would sound bassier because it hits the mid-bass registry harder. If you have a sub or bass shakers, the yamaha has more really deep frequencies. I keep kicking around the idea of getting an SC-88/pro for the fun of it, but I already have an MU-1000 and the card-version of the SC-55mkII. I want to rationalize buying the sc-88 for the fun of it. Thanks for making these videos for all of these years, Phil!

[@musicotaku666]

awesome vid, i just wished that yamaha would release a XG vst... roland did a sound canvas vst now!

[@VenomStryker]

I loved the music from Descent, but I never had great MIDI hardware to enjoy it back in the day. As for this comparison, I like the Roland sound better. They are both great but Roland audio sounds deeper, richer, fuller, however you want to describe it. :-)

[@oopus4]

Gotta have that Roland BASS!

[@V14VK]

I plunged into nostalgia :) - Difficult to choose between the two. Each is good in their own way!!!! _Thank you! + I like it!!!!

[@RetroPCUser]

I have a Yamaha DB50XG and the Descent 2 soundtrack is almost similar to the CDA variant. It blows my mind.

[@Logan912]

I tend to use Roland when playing DOS games but I prefer Yamaha XG when I'm working on my own music (which doesn't happen often because I only use 90s MIDI sound modules when I specifically want that "sound" or when I'm doing it for fun.) XG is only really good when the MIDI sequence is made to take advantage of XG in particular whereas Roland's sounds fit just about anything from the get-go.

[@MidoriMizuno]

Amen to that

[@tyisafk]

I sure hope DOSBox allows real MIDI out, because I have an SC55 Pro sitting around, just got an MU90 today and I remembered recently my mic interface actually allows MIDI In/Out. :) I do have a purpose-built Win98 PC which I've used the SC55 on, but it's been in storage because I realized over time it's not really necessary to have other than novelty.

[@SimnoBardackus]

I wonder what reference melodies were used to combine all those different sounds to sound well - engineers and designers worked really hard. I like Yamaha sounds more, but I can't ignore Roland has more basses. As always being a fan I listen to both with pleasure. Thanks for comparison!

[@LARESISTENZA]

Only me don't understand when U switch from MU80 to roland?

[@hobbified]

MU80 sounds like it needs a tiny bit of reverb, or maybe just a treble cut.

[@ytreview4390]

Wich device yiou use to switch midi inputs? Yamaha sounds greate

[@brostenen]

Yamaha has better sounding instruments, Roland has an overall better quality.

[@StevenJPiper]

If you could mix and match the instruments, you'd have the perfect sound set on your hands

[@kaneCVR]

They both sound so good it's hard to pick a favorite, but if I had to I'd go with the Yamaha (I like it's drumkit and effects patches better) . Also, is it just me or is the roland a little more "wet" and deep then the yamaha?

[@VoiceActingGod]

The XG processing really did well in this one. As well did the Roland, they both sound really good! Would there be any problems using the yamaha mu-80 with the awe64?

[@philscomputerlab]

+VoiceActingGod The AWE64 is perfect for driving ANY General MIDI device :) I use it in my main DOS gaming machine as well.

[@VoiceActingGod]

PhilsComputerLab ah thats awesome XDDD and thank you for the information. I really appreciate it!

[@nicou2fender]

Will this unit work straight ahead with a MIDI-USB (for PC) adaptor or i still need a MPU401 interface ? Good video !

[@philscomputerlab]

Yes it will. Just tell DOSBox or Munt to talk to the USB MIDI adapter.

[@nicou2fender]

Thanks so much !.

[@thebreathalyzer]

If you could use the best sounds from both, that would be the ticket. I like both instruments and use both of them (VSTi versions). There are definitely particular sounds that each does better or in some cases with more clarity or more punch, etc. Yamaha has a brighter sound overall and the synthier sounds with filter envelope mods on the Yamaha have more bite. Some of the bass sounds on the Roland are so fat though. I used to own an SC-33 and really loved it.

[@mrburns366]

How about both at the same time?? 😁😋

[@justjoeblow420]

I'm going to be the odd man out, I very much prefer the SC. The Yamaha sounds to artificial and high pitched especially the plucked bass.

[@Aquaticdragon]

Nah, I LIVE for the SC-55. MU80? Yeah it's good. I'm not gonna shit on it at all. But the SC-55 just packs that nostalgia punch that MU80 can't for me.

[@pip5528]

Why did you skip level 12/21? I'm disappointed because that is one of my favorite songs from Descent!

[@philscomputerlab]

+Sam Wittsell Not sure, I thought I had every level recorded. Had a list printed out with the levels, so I'm not sure...

[@pip5528]

philscomputerlab Well, somehow you skipped levels 12 and 21, which have the same song. It is also the setup song.

[@AnubisXII]

Man, I've got a question about these tone generators. I have this MIDI foot pedal controller that was once the pedals off an old Hammond organ. I built it as a cheap substitute for the Moog Taurus Pedals. It's got 13 notes, an octave selector switch, and a program control switch. To change the octave, I hit the octave switch and touch a trigger to select the octave. To change the program, I hit the program switch and select the program by pressing the 3 digit number with the pedals as well. For example, pressing 082 (C, G#, D) would bring up the preset 82. It works great. But I want better sounds than the keyboard I am using now, and I want something that takes up less space. Would a tone generator be the thing I'm looking for? Thanks.

[@Gunstarrhero1]

put the selection in the middle or try running pass?

[@BlackCatRedScarf]

I played Descent a lot with my Pentium 133 and my old SoundBlaster card (not sure if it was a 16 or a 32). I believe the soundtrack was made to suit the Yamaha and sometimes the Roland sounds kinda off. Thanks for the comparison. I'm looking after building a system to run Windows 95 and MS-DOS games.

[@thorndust5329]

Is there a place where we could listen to the recordings of each song in full with each device?

[@terenas1986]

I think the Yamaha sounds more realistic, but the Roland sounds more Descent-ish :) (to me) :) how exactly did you get these 2 to get these 2 devices to play the game music for you? MIDI-port on the soundcard?

[@Alianger]

Can you explain which one is playing when? It's impossible to tell without having heard either before when you do it like this and keep changing the sound so often.

[@philscomputerlab]

Look at the dial that I'm moving, it's labelled!

[@dean8553]

Yamaha MU80 on 3 and SC55 on 4?

[@yuriykiselyov7335]

Could you please tell me, what the brand and model of your mixer? I think that I love them ❤ 😊 And did you have battle from mu80 and canvas with some games and midis like a canyon.mid and other ? I want to understand what for me better. I think that MU80. In my dream i want mt-32 and mu80, but its only in my dream. I can't buy because EU, US and JP closed for me :-(

[@philscomputerlab]

I did a video recently about the two mixers I'm using...

[@Storm_.]

Roland wins without a shadow of a doubt. More dynamic, more instruments, more everything.

[@p1k4x]

I suppose the game was made with a roland in mind though....

[@Logan912]

Makes sense. Most 90s era DOS game soundtracks were made with SC-55 in mind. Of course, there are cases where the MU series is better, but it's rarely better with video games.

[@xXRenaxChanXx]

Actually not true at all. The YAMAHA MU80 has support for Yamahas own XG standard. Which extends farther than Rolands GS standard. (300+ instruments vs over 600+).

[@Logan912]

Objectified Cross Both XG and GS are useless when the MIDI sequence is only made for General MIDI 1 (there was a GM2 later on, but almost nothing took advantage of it as PC almost completely moved over to streamed audio across the board, and there was better equipment around for music composition purposes by that point.) That being said, there were DOS games that had GS MIDI sequences, and Yamaha modules will automatically switch over to TG300b mode for compatibility (GS and XG are incompatible with each other because they use different SYSEX commands and patch numbers.) There were also some XG-based DOS soundtracks although those are relatively rare.

[@Kwipper]

I like the sound of the Yahama more than the Roland.

[@mafiashpagety]

On SC55 bass guitars sound like a trumpets!

[@agustinfernandez5576]

Deberias haber hecho la prueba con una melodia mas rica en instrumentos y voces para poder comparar mejor .El talon de aquiles de un instrumento sintetizado son los instruementos de cuerda por su gran cantidad de arminicos .Te agradeceria un nuevo video con usca mas instrumental .Yamaha tiene la tecnologia xg dificil de superar.Un video juego no sirve para comparar la calidad de un modulo de sonido

[@firage]

I'll almost always prefer Roland's version of a song, but in the first track here I really dislike Roland's crappy disco sounding drums. Yamaha is better, but the AWE version is by far the best there.

[@SeñorDossierOficial]

Can i use the mu80 to replace the roland mt32 in most msdos and x68000 games?

[@justincondello262]

The first level, the bell noise is the same on both units 😆

[@hal64738]

I'd give a slight edge at the SC-55. However, I have an MT-32, SC-55 and SC88Pro and I think the unit which sounds the best on Descent is the SC-88 (SC-88Pro on SC-88 map for me).

[@meowsandstuff]

Where is Callisto Tower Colony?

[@techstormster]

Wow... Most of these sound better on the Roland. And there are a few songs that just sound night and day better on the Yamaha.

[@vgjhlgjhfuyfjhfjkhgyghj]

Shiiiiit. Descent don't sound like that on my rigs. How do I do this?

[@ju34edwards]

I have both modules. I bought the Roland sc155 in 1992 the Yamaha 1994 or mid 90's the mu80 stop working 10 years ago. I still have the Roland and it is still going strong. To me Roland was better built and a lot more durable. I liked the sound better also, even though I love Yamaha

[@thorndust5329]

What kind of sound generation does Yamaha employ in their XG MU-series modules?

[@SpeedySPCFan]

The MU series is all AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2), except for the MU5 which is AWM1 like a few of their older modules, like the TG100.

[@walterwold1168]

Hi! Does the MU80 work with Softmpu? Considering one of these to my rig.

[@philscomputerlab]

Yes absolutely! But it is a General MIDI device, so SoftMPU isn't really necessary...

[@KuraIthys]

The two have vastly different strengths, clearly, but I would still say on balance the Yamaha wins out. Just.

[@alexandrebouvier7731]

They still better than the Microsoft GS wavetable synth !

[@stephanemignot100]

I've always preferred the drums of the mu80...

[@KainiaKaria]

I have always liked briefing song.

[@philscomputerlab]

+Radical Edward also Kainia Karia (Michael Gardner) Yes it's not as aggressive as the others.

[@KennyIBLUEPLUM]

面白い仕組み!!、よく考えたね。 GMモードなので関係はないが、性能は明らかに…『MU80』が上。太刀打ちするには…『SC-88VL』かな？、エフェクトは足りない。 私は『SC-88Pro ～ SC-8850 ～ SD-90』と変わった。

[@LinoshTheHaloGamer]

Somehow no midi synth is able to give a good synth drum like sound canvas series SC55 has too low polyphony for Descent

[@SpeedySPCFan]

Maybe the SC-8850 would be the best choice for Descent then? That's the only Sound Canvas with 128 voices which should be just enough.

[@lauraboutilier]

The Roland wins in my opinion. Not only was the music composed for this unit making it sound as intended. But the Roland has a wider dynamic range of sound, particular at the lower notes and the pad instruments. Many of the Yamaha samples sound sterile (but not as bad as Creative Labs, with their almost bathroom and underwater sound). The Yamaha wins in some instruments over the Roland, in particular the guitar like instruments.

[@42ccb]

In my opinion, Yamaha won. Yamaha had better atmosphere and quality than Roland.

[@MidoriMizuno]

Both of these are very possible with XG effects and CC controllers but the sequence needs to be explicitly XG, which isn't the case with Descent

[@alexk6249]

there were Korg also

[@philscomputerlab]

There are heaps of other MIDI devices. It's just that Roland and Yamaha are the two de-facto MIDI devices for old DOS games.

[@RediscoveringRetro]

Could anyone advise me if an MU90 would sound the same as an MU80? I currently use an SC55MKII but you know what's like, always looking for more. Cheers.

[@MidoriMizuno]

MU90 adds some new patches, two XG insertion effects, and possibly a few other things i'm forgetting but the tones that had already been there in MU80 will sound basically the same

[@RediscoveringRetro]

@@MidoriMizuno Thanks for the info mate, much appreciated. There's not too many out there for sale so at least I know I can really go with either at the right price. I already have an Sc55 but I quite like the Mu80 sound on some things. Cheers.

[@danieldemayo6209]

Sound blaster kills em both lol I think that's what was in my ibm aptiva not sure but w.e it was its different that both of these

[@danieldemayo6209]

Loved the game/music as a kid though! Was the first proper PC game I ever played and was blown away back in 95 haha

[@SuperSy99]

Sound blaster has yamaha chips

[@GianmarioScotti]

This is already the 2nd game where the Roland - to me! - sounds so much better than the Yamaha, that it feels like they're not even in the same league. And the Yamaha isn't bad by any stretch, but the Roland (again, in my opinion) is so much better that the Yamaha sounds gimped, in a direct comparison.

[@philscomputerlab]

The reason is not so much that Roland is better, but at the time, Roland Sound Canvas was the de-facto standard, so composers used Sound Canvas to make music for games. So it sounds most natural and balanced on sound canvas :)

[@messimer]

Roland wins hands down!

[@robertcornhole5197]

The Roland bass makes all the difference in the world!

[@retroandgaming]

Nice video but... Turning that dial whenever you feel like it and comparing different hw doesn't make it. Pre-tune and let it rock. Nobody in the pc age sat dailing that knob every 5-10 seconds while playing a game

[@philscomputerlab]

The video compared two Midi units by switching back and forth.

[@Synth_Dragon]

I'm very very clearly bias on this one but the SC-55 wins by a landslide for me.

[@Envisaged0ne]

Yeah, winner is definitely the Roland :)

[@systemuhr]

both have their strengths and weaknesses, in my opinion generally they playing in a league, roland und mu series a very brilliant synths until now, in most cases it is a question on which synth the songs were arranged for, if you have many favorite songs, then it is necessary to upgrade them in the sequencer of your choise, to chance voices, to adjust velocities & volumes of track channels the best way: take a SC-55 and Mu 1000 und mix both together

[@perverthokage]

i still love my yamaha XG :P