Rolling for damage in Alpha Strike - which method is the best?

[@t3lfordway296]

Rules as written vs either of the variable methods also has a big impact on the value of Overheat. Rules as written you can say "If I overheat by 2 and I hit I will kill that mech this turn." and know that for sure, whereas in the multi-attack role setups you never know which point of extra damage will be enough and which will be overkill, discouraging overheating in general. Or perhaps it's more accurate to say that you use your overheat when you think you're going to die, rather than to go for the kill most of the time. Not sure if the game is actually well balanced enough that the slight nerf to high overheat mechs matters, but it definitely changes the feel of putting a mech like the Nova Prime on the board.

[@EricJamesWeston]

I've seen a couple of videos and articles on this subject now, and they've all misunderstood some important points about the maths. These points make a big difference in how you should interpret each method when you try to decide which you prefer: 1) First, understand that you don't actually need to 'simulate' anything here, you can *calculate* it all with maths. Probabilistically (and therefore statistically, over many rolls), the DFA 'pilot die' method is not just 'close' to the default 'rules as written (RAW)' method... it is IDENTICAL. As is the 'multiple attack rolls' method. The difference between these methods is in how they tend to balance out within a *single game*, due to the number of rolls they involve: the RAW method is the most swingy in a single game (the fewest dice, most convenient); the 'multiple attack rolls' method is the least swingy in a single game (the most dice, most inconvenient); the DFA method is a compromise between these two extremes, balancing the pros and cons of each (medium number of dice, medium convenience). But the alternate 'single attack roll, multiple damage rolls at 3+ each' method and the 'D12 attack roll' method are probabilistically very different, and therefore yield very different statistical results. 2) The DFA method (and the 'multiple attack rolls' method) does of course yield more critical hits *if you count all pairs of sixes as valid for critical hits*. (Again, you can calculate the probabilities, no simulation required.) You may prefer it like that, or not - but it's certainly very different from RAW. However, it's easy to make it probabilistically identical to RAW if you prefer to keep it that way: For the DFA method, simply use a different colour for *one* of the smaller dice, and then count a critical hit ONLY when both the pilot die and that one special die score a six - sixes on the other small dice don't count for critical hits. This makes the DFA method probabilistically the same as the RAW method both for damage AND for critical hits. With this tweak, the DFA method is the perfect way to balance the extremes of 'not enough dice rolls to balance out the swinginess' and 'too many dice rolls, which slow things down' WITHOUT changing the overall probabilities. 3) If you like the DFA method, and you want more critical hits than you get with RAW, but not loads more, then: Ignore the bit I explained above about the special (different coloured) smaller die, and instead, when the pilot die and *one or more* smaller dice score six, simply count this as only *one* critical hit, not multiple critical hits. --- Personally, I prefer the DFA method because it balances practical pros and cons *without* changing the overall probabilities of damage, and doesn't have to change the probabilities of critical hits either if you understand how to do it right (as in point (2) above). But I also *like* to increase the probability of critical hits a bit over RAW, so in my solo games I've been using the variation I described at point (3) above. I hope this helps some readers to make a more informed decision about which method they prefer.

[@almostgoodvariant]

Great post! On your point number 3: This is how both the multiple attack rolls and the pilot die are meant to be played and how I did it in my calculations, just forgot to mention it.

[@EricJamesWeston]

​@@almostgoodvariant Cool. Yes, good point - my main points still stand, but as a matter of detail point (2) is a slight tweak to the DFA method, not the DFA method as written. My main goal in point (2) was to show that, if we want to, we can use the 'pilot die' method in a way that yields the *exact* same overall probabilities as RAW, for critical hits too (not just for damage only). It takes only a very small change to the DFA implementation to achieve this. But in fact, I enjoy the increased rate of critical hits that the DFA method yields as at point (3), even though it's more than RAW. Good to know that your stats match this approach (I skimmed over that section rather quickly, so didn't linger on the stats or dust off my maths to check them). I would not enjoy the even higher rate of critical hits we'd get from counting *each and every* pairing of sixes (either in the pilot die method, or in the multiple attacks method)! The DFA approach feels just right to me at the moment. Nice video by the way, I certainly don't mean to be negative about it. Just wanted to highlight these points which I've seen various people either miss entirely, or misunderstand and misrepresent.

[@3DAlphaStrike]

@EricJamesWeston Excellent post! Thoroughly detailed and very clearly articulated. Exactly what I needed to understand this and the ramifications of each method. Thank you. 🚀

[@EricJamesWeston]

​​@trevore1667 you are most welcome, glad to be of help!

[@xGamermonkeyx]

Great video overall. I personally really like MAR the most of all systems because of it's critical hit chance being so much higher, while also giving lighter mechs more of a chance of surviving generally from shots from high output enemy mechs. To me crits are fantastic, because they add flavour and complications to a game that would be fairly simple and straight-forward otherwise, especially campaigns or narrative series of missions. I'd put it this way, playing Classic Battletech you're not going to remember your Catapult firing away all game and just chewing up an enemy mech with LRMs and lasers, just shooting it until it's dead. You ARE going to remember your Wolverine running up a hill to a ledge one hex higher than the Catapult and kicking it in the face, tearing its side torso open and ripping its arm off, causing an ammo explosion that blows up the Cat. Similar thing with AS, I'm not going to remember my Bushwacker just shooting a guy till he's dead, but I definitely remember the time my partner's Battle Cobra got a headshot on my full health Atlas and hollowed out the cockpit with its large lasers hahaha. Dice tells stories and crits are the twists and turns for me. Of course the limits of one crit per source of damage is still in effect so if someone brings a Kraken 3 and lands 3 sets of boxcars on your Mad Cat in one shooting you still only take one crit, but upping those chances of having a crit is more fun to me. And as others have said there's plenty of great ways to mitigate this danger if you and your opponent agree to it, like the dedicated crit dice and such.

[@steventaylor9962]

Also a factor of how you roll for damage that isn't really discussed here and has an impact on play is the speed at which mech are taken off the table. Across the multiple methods of rolling damage while the total damage rolled overall might equal out in the long run the impact of how much damage is being dropped at any one time matters. Namely when you start getting 6+ damage in an attack that can very easily remove a pretty sizable swathe of lighter mechs in one go. Versus granular damage from that same attack will allow that damaged mech to stay on the board for several more turns. Even if it is only one more turn of shooting that much be committed to dealing with the damaged mechs can significantly impact the course of a match in meaningful ways. In my experience the various methods of granular damage rolls leads to less swingy/spiking results. While also adding depth by creating further pros/cons of various mechs that have more armor versus structure when you are more likely to take several smaller hits across your total health pool.

[@almostgoodvariant]

Excellent post, thanks! Yeah, I’m sure there’d be a ton to dig into regarding different damage and armor profiles when it comes to the different methods. I’m getting such interesting discussion out of this video here and elsewhere that I’m considering a follow-up taking all of this stuff into account. Not sure I’m clever enough and/or have enough time to spreadsheet all of it thoroughly, but certainly these points need to be discussed as well.

[@MarcLandgraf]

But that logic actually goes both ways and you only focussed on one side! Doing 6 dmg vs a 6 HP mech, the attacker would prefer it all depend on a single roll. But when dealing 6 dmg to a damaged mech having only 2 HP left, the attacker would very much prefer the rolls to be split and shoot like a shot gun. Like assume a 7+ to hit: 6 dmg vs 6 hp: RAW: 58% kill chance MAR: 4% kill chance DFA: 24% kill chance 6 dmg vs 2 hp: RAW: 58% kill chance MAR: 95% kill chance DFA: 80% kill chance In the end, I feel like this simplification of the damage system steals a very characteristic part of Classic Battletech. You basically lose the differentiation in the damage profile between a Hunchback and a Jenner. A hunchback rolling a quadrillion dice and then doing some partial damage feels wrong to me... But playing all or nothing on a mech supposedly carrying a dozen lasers feels as wrong as well. So if playing with a good friend, I would always welcome to actually differentiate. You've got a hunchie? Roll once, go big. Your black knight or Jenner? chip away!

[@briane8627]

Pilot die is the most cinematic. Great video.

[@Voidling_System]

I was glad this video came out as it helped me decide on what system to use. I ended up using the DFA system, and teaching it to multiple people, as it allows me to not only have some extreme lucky and unlucky shots that makes it feel like it's "realistic", but it's simple and most importantly... it' sa lot easier on my admittedly piddly dice pools. Just give the person a big die from the box and a small pack of little dice and it's visually easy to tell and doesn't require twice the number of dice since the big one is doing half the job. It kinda sucks sometimes when you roll a 1 on a pilot die but soldiers sneeze, computers freeze up, and sometimes a system malfunctions. Or admittedly I'll give them a reroll sometimes cause I think it'd be cooler to have a big boom and I'd rather they keep playing than give up because the dice gods are dicks.

[@vonether]

The thing to consider is that more weapons means more crits favors mechs that do more damage. Depending on how you feel about the point values of the mechs, this may either make point values less accurate or more accurate.

[@billable1861]

You are the Morgan Freeman of Battletech. I’m digging that mix setup!

[@almostgoodvariant]

@@billable1861 haha, thanks. It’s just like a 30-40€ mic that said it was good for podcasting. It’s not a brand I’d heard of before buying it.

[@steventaylor9962]

We have been playing using 2D6 per damage, but to balance out the crits for extra damage, rolling a pair of snake eyes deducts one damage from the total done. Playing into the idea of a botched shot messing up your overall weapon volley. It has done a very good job of balancing out the spike in critical hits.

[@almostgoodvariant]

Interesting compromise! I’d love to run the numbers on that.

[@VelcroSnake93]

Excellent video. My friends and I had been playing with multi hit rolls (rolling a pair of dice for each point of damage), but Option 4 seems kind of interesting, which I had seen some people using in battle report videos. Not being aware of the Pilot die system, I actually wonder if using the 2d6 per damage point method may be why in our games critical hits before the armor was gone seemed so frequent, which honestly seemed to slow the game down a bit. That might make me think going to the Pilot die system might be better, because while I understand that armor can be stripped from locations before all armor is gone, it seems a bit 'feel bad' to have a fully armored mech get destroyed by a lucky critical on the first salvo (which happened to my friend the last time we played), or get an engine hit right away and have to deal with that the rest of the match (which happened to me in one game). Something I don't like about the default method is it can feel a bit too much like MW Dark Age, where a smaller mech might get erased in one shot by a larger mech, as opposed to my more thematic idea of a larger mech unloading on a smaller mech and maybe many of the shots missing because the smaller mech is just weaving around and harder to hit.

[@frankb3347]

I like rolling a separate pair of dice for each point of damage as it best simulates the feeling of firing multiple weapons systems. More crits is cool too. The D12 method is insane. Without a probably curve it would throw off how each unit plays. Point values would somehow need to be completely recalculated for every single unit.

[@riotgnight1394]

The other benefit to the Multiple Attack Rolls method is that it works much more smoothly with certain Special abilities and alternate ammo types like HT, FLK, or SRM. Before you roll, you just choose which pairs of dice correspond to the special attacks and then can apply the special's rules to that pair if it hits. The rulebook explains this on the page that has the MAR rules. Example: if the mech deals 3 damage at Short range and has a HT 1/1/- special, then when you roll your 3 attacks at Short range, you choose one pair of dice to have the HT special (before rolling). If that one hits, it also causes the heat buildup.

[@jamesmoyon5264]

I've played a couple of games with D12 MAR. I like that it increases the chance for crits, making it feel more like CBT in terms of damage. I also feel like it evens out the playing field between Inner Sphere and Clans by making those high rolls needed by the Sphere a little more likely.

[@almostgoodvariant]

That’s a good point! Maybe I’d need to run these numbers in a follow-up video.

[@boateye]

I love MAR, but now that ive seen the numbers for Pilor Die, i am more willing to give it a shot. On MAR, i prefer it for all of the reasons you do, but theres also one more that you don't hear about often: physical attacks. Under MAR, if you do a physical attack, you only roll one pair of dice, regardless of how much damage youre dealing. What i love about that is that it gives physical attacks a special role in the game. Physical attacks have a higher chance of "one-shotting" the enemy if you do as much damage as their remaining HP. So it gains the role of being the best way to deliver a finishing blow. You feel this the most when your target has about 3-5 total armor and structure remaining and you deal the same amount in weapon and physical attacks. Statistically, if your TN is a 7+, and you deal enough damage to kill the enemy, you're likely to do so over ~2 turns in both MAR and Single Attack rolls (default method). However, doing a single attack roll will mean you have a higher chance of killing the enemy in that first roll. Its simply the difference between having to roll 7+ 3-5 times or having to roll it once. After discovering this, i now always bring a unit with MEL and/or TSM and my playgroup hates me for it 😹 my No-Dachi is public enemy no.1 🗡️

[@almostgoodvariant]

@@boateye this is something I was wondering about, because my edition of AS:CE does not mention physical attacks using MAR, even though rolling for a single hit makes all the sense in the world. I’ve houseruled it like that several times - it just makes sense. However, now that you mentioned it, I thought of checking the latest errata. Lo and behold, there it is.

[@boateye]

@@almostgoodvariant it's nice when your house rules turn out to be correct!

[@justinbrobbins12]

Hey! Thanks for putting out your videos! I'm new to BattleTech and am just easing my way into playing and having my 6-year-old son learn with me. I appreciate your other videos of how to speed up gameplay. So I have only gotten 1 game in from the beginner box (I know the armored combat and alpha strike are better dollarwise, but those will be my next purchases).

[@almostgoodvariant]

Thanks for the comment! I think Alpha Strike might be the way to go with a six-year-old. I demoed Alpha Strike to a bunch of kids aged 10-12 in the past year and they got the hang of it quickly. The Beginner Box’s lighter BattleTech ruleset might also work, but I’ve never played using those rules.

[@punkerpete]

Pilot Die all the way!! I love rolling the Pilot Die method, because it increases the chance for criticals as you mentioned, but it also retains some elements of the RAW (rules as written) dice rolling method, where you still have a chance to miss completely, ie; if you roll a '1' on your Pilot die and your to-hit number was 8 or more. I feel like there is a thematic element to it as well - I can imagine a Pilot lining up his shot perfectly but slips at the last minute when pulling the trigger (bad Pilot die roll), so his shots all miss. Likewise, like RAW there is a chance that all your shots can automatically hit as well (ie; you roll a Pilot die of '6' and your to-hit number was '7'). With MAR it is very unlikely that ALL of your shots will hit or miss.

[@almostgoodvariant]

Excellent points! Some of it’s something I started thinking about after finishing the video.

[@thecommuterzombie]

I've come to the same conclusion as you and prefer multiple attack rolls (MAR). I like the chance to have more crits in a game (even if the % chance is only raised slightly, every little helps!) and I like the grindier nature of multiple attacks rolls where each attack can often nick a point of armour or two off a target (even fast light mechs). I've been gaming for decades now and so I happen to have enough differing dice that finding 10 different pairs of dice is easy enough (the ANH-5W is very silly). I find the RAW approach of single attack role to be too swingy - good rolls for you and bad rolls for your opponent can have half their force wiped on the first turn and then even if they get a little luck after that point they are generally too far behind to make a comeback. I've not tried the pilot dice approach or variable damage but don't feel the need. I really like the feel of the game with MAR.

[@almostgoodvariant]

Pilot die is cool, give it a go sometime :)

[@bigeye6606]

Multiple Attack rolls but with a dedicated critical hit dice pair (so only one chance every attack roll to land a critical)

[@almostgoodvariant]

I understand this is what they do at Southern Assault. Interesting compromise between variable damage and keeping the critical chance at the intended level.

[@jamesripley8031]

This is the local variant in popular use in my area too.

[@leerberg]

The way I play it as well. Keeps the 2d6 statistics per damage and keeping the crit roll to one pair of dice( often red :) ). Multiple damage rolls are just more in tune with the many weapons systems fireing at once. Imho that is :)

[@franciscoduarteauthor]

I do agree with your assessment. The multiple hit makes the game feel different and granular. I tend to use the DFA system, but allow one roll per damage as careful aim - in my experience it isn't too overpowered because if you get a 6 but only make 1dmg you'll feel bad for not rolling all at once, on the other had it can be useful for long range shots and make the game feel cinematic when used alongside the DFA system.

[@xericsbyrd5195]

I actually play the 2nd method that you showed where you roll a number of dice equal to damage and do 1 damage per 3+. It works just fine.

[@giancarlojubela2377]

Our community plays with the Variable Damage rules. It works just fine and works well with SCAs, SPAs, formations, etc. Based on our experience, we tried the DFA's pilot dice with our games before. But we ditched it because it creates too much of an imbalance when paired with SCAs and SPAs. We also can't agree on solving some issues with the pilot dice system. For example, if a player decides to use a reroll (Lucky SPA), we can't agree if we have to reroll the entire roll (together with the pilot die), just the pilot die, or just one of the dice. So we decided to just go with the variable damage. And we haven't had any problems since then.

[@saigancat]

The community here in Colorado uses MAR. For large games at home I'll use RAW just for sake of speed.

[@onerosarmakat4456]

I thinkPilot dice gives a more realistic feel to me especially if you are coming from classic BT, where you are accustomed to fire many different weapons.

[@upyours7]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the costs in dice of these methods. Not a bIg deal for most but MAR is usually presented in videos with multiple whole sets of die, which isnt always cheap. That said, can be done cheaply by getting one set and repainting the pips in pairs.

[@almostgoodvariant]

@@upyours7 great point that I hadn’t considered. It feels like people just kinda assume even new players to BattleTech have tons of dice stashed since you use them for marking movement and TMM.

[@TheDanteBoots]

Never played the game but the pilot system looks more thematic and immersive.

[@MrGunnar177]

Just found your channel really great videos! Im just getting into battletech so these have been fantastic!

[@cjwestphal397]

Multiple Attack Rolls feels the best, like you are firing several weapons systems at once, any of which have an equal chance at a certain range to miss or hit (Alpha Strike doesn't really represent pulse lasers and their increased accuracy) . Also stops units being simply deleted with a single Dice roll, which is underwhelming. Feels more like true Battletech, including more weapons equaling more chances to do a crit (even tough in Alpha Strike with Multiple Attack Dice it would be capped at one "natural crit" of 12- but you still have more chances to do that one crit).

[@jamesripley8031]

I believe that Alpha Strike gives some extra damage when Pulse Lasers are present in significant numbers. Take the Rifleman IIC, which has 5 damage in each range bracket. For the most part, Alpha Strike damage seems to be "how much damage does this mech fire" divided by 10. Example being a Hunchback, AC/20 does 20, pair of medium lasers does 10 total - all of that adds up to 30 damage, and the Hunchback does 3 damage at medium range. So, back to the Rifleman IIC, four large pulse lasers does 40 damage, but the Rifleman IIC has 5 damage. Likewise the Wraith TR1 variant does 21 damage if all 3 pulse lasers hit, which would normally round to 2 damage, but the Wraith in Alpha Strike does 3 damage. Seems to me in both cases they've rounded up the damage.

[@kevinbartoe7881]

As someone who hasn't played since high school in '88 I really appreciate how you broke things down in your video. Thank you. I think I'm going to be using the DFA style when I get my teenager into playing. Great video.

[@almostgoodvariant]

Thanks! I’ve played Alpha Strike with some kids aged 10-12 and they grokked the system super quickly. I’m sure yours will too!

[@deleonfrancis60]

I would use the attack value as my D6 dice. It depends on the pilot. If it’s a skill four he will score 4 or higher on the D6. If he has a skill three he will score 3 or higher and so on nothing really changed. It’s just how you tossed the diceand I tested this, and it works pretty well for me.

[@almostgoodvariant]

@@deleonfrancis60 sorry, I’m not sure what you mean.

[@jameshojnowski8455]

I'm just here for the Spirit Cat dice. I see Spirit Cats, I press like. I have two 'boxes o' death' I use when I play. Each damage point gets its own roll, and the first box is the dedicated crit roll as well. It's fun and makes lights and mediums last much longer.

[@theredbeardbard]

I use the multiple attack rolls variant rule from the Commander's Edition Alpha Strike. I've tried the pilot die system from DFA (I'm a patreon supporter of theirs) but I didn't like the "feel" of it.

[@calumdeighton]

I play with Death from Above style. I prefer it because when using Lucky pts, I use them to modify the pilot die instead of the damage. Feels more right that a pilots aim being lucky instead of a lucky stray shot. I've rolled bad on pilot die then used a lucky point and scoring a critical hit. Once effectively head shoting an Atlas with a Wasp of all things. My opponent after witnessing that called that mech "lucky bastard", so later I stenciled the name on its base.

[@michaelmurphy748]

Thinking about getting into Alpha Strike (use to play battle tech decades ago) and one of the videos I watch about the dice roll methods really hit home. Large damage mechs will decimate in one shot small light mechs with a lucky 'single hit'. This makes crits and armor meaningless with the smaller mech as one hit kills. Rolling multiple dice pairs for each potential damage means you will not 'all hit' or 'all miss' making crits something that can affect light mechs.

[@stitchreloaded9044]

I find this article very funny considering we have a game member who likes to roll how old is dice at once. Normally not a problem but all this is the same color so he gets to pick and choose which pairs he wants. 😂

[@Perqqq]

I'm playing with MAR, but only the first roll can crit. Pilot die is half-way to single roll - if pilot die rolls 1, you're pretty much done rolling. I have "dice order" in which there is first roll, second and so on, and only first can crit, but next rolls count for LRM and so on.

[@jasonames145]

i agree with multiple attack rolls. just wiping units off the board in 7 damage hits feels anticlimactic. makes the critical hit table seem superfluous as mechs die so quickly

[@almostgoodvariant]

Yep, one of my issues with RAW. I guess the variable damage rule (roll 1d6 per damage point, 3+ delivers damage) was written to prevent exactly this but boy do I not like the idea.

[@artemyblackwood]

Thanks for a great video! I played with a default system and it feels pretty meh. Gonna to try multiple attack and DFA pilot die rolls today. Again thanks!

[@Joshf4phan]

The one use I can see for RAW is if you're doing a truly large scale battle. Throw a cluster at a regiment and speed pays off because no individual unit really matters that much. But like most everyone I prefer variable damage, and the pilot die system works the best. A bit of frustration is okay because it levels out through the course of the game.

[@almostgoodvariant]

Definitely, speed is the main advantage of RAW. If I’d play a game with like 1000-ish PV per side I’d definitely suggest using RAW.

[@ShadrackMeduson]

i like the idea of rolling per damage point to see how much you get and no matter what you will inflict as a very least 1 point of damage even if you dont get nothing good because a hit its a hit. But how would you go with the OV attack? would you take the OV as another roll to see if it hits or would you count it as an automatic hit? like for example a mech lands a hit and has 5 points of damage, thats 5 rolls with 2D6S, so even if you get 5 bad rolls you will still land a single damage point but it has an OV of 2, so if you call the OV attack this means it will land as a very least a damage of 3 no matter how bad your rolls are. This could give more value to OV attacks and more reasons to use it. Because with the normal rules the OV attacks are nearly pointless unless you are attacking a heavy or assault mech but on mediums and lights its wasted.

[@almostgoodvariant]

@@ShadrackMeduson either you’ve misunderstood something or I’m reading your post wrong. The multiple attack rolls, ie. 2d6 per point of, are all rolls to hit. So if you need 7+ to hit and roll 3 x 2d6 and get 7, 8 and 3, you inflict two damage. No additional rolls needed. The multiple damage roll is where you first roll to hit with one pair and then roll one d6 per point of damage to determine how much damage is inflicted on a 3+. OV is an addition to the damage stat of the mech, so if using MAR you would simply roll more pairs of dice, and using multiple damage rolls you would roll more d6 when you hit.

[@armageddon_gaming]

I watched a video of few weeks ago of someone who used a totally different system than what you showed and I'd say it's a very streamlined method. Using your kit mech as an example, 3 damage means rolling 3 d12s instead of 3 pairs of d6s

[@almostgoodvariant]

@@armageddon_gaming yep, that’s something some people do. However, using d12 totally changes the entire system as the probabilities for different dice rolls change - the probability of a 12 on a 2d6 is 1/36 while on a d12 it’s 1/12, and so on.

[@armageddon_gaming]

@almostgoodvariant here's the link to a video I accidentally found of the youtubet who uses d12s. The video jas the youtuber explaining why he uses d12s and the math behind it. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jaKYnJSDm5mLjrcfeature=shared

[@almostgoodvariant]

@@armageddon_gaming yep, I’ve seen it! That channel is fantastic and definitely worth a follow. However, one of the reasons Ash states why he likes to use d12s is the exact reason I don’t: it makes long-range fire deadlier while nerfing close combat. That goes against both how I picture an engagement in BattleTech would happen due to the tech and tactics involved and the kinds of situations that I find fun in the game, ie. close-up tactical brawls where every step you take has significance. Forces just lining up and shooting at each other isn’t my thing at all, which would be enabled by long-range fire being deadlier.

[@armageddon_gaming]

@almostgoodvariant so I got a question about the multi hit and DFA systems. First off, I've never played alpha strike, but I do intend on getting it so most of what I understand with battletech is through youtube and downloading pdfs of quickstart rules. With the multi hit, and DFA systems, does that potentially increase the number of critical hits you could roll in a single attack? I think I understand with the standard rules you take structural damage plus 1 pip of critical hit damage to weapons, ammo, engine, or movement if a crit roll is successful. Under the multi hit and DFA systems, would it be possible to sustain multiple critical hits assuming the mech still has structure pips remaining and of we're going off standard rules where you only roll for critical hits once structure has been damaged?

[@almostgoodvariant]

Great question, and something I think I failed to mention in the video although my calculations do take it into account. First off - rules-as-written Alpha Strike does include getting a critical hit by rolling a 12. You can cause two critical hits per attack if you roll a 12 and cause enough damage to get into the structure, as structural damage always results in a critical. There are also special pilot abilities that can cause further criticals but that’s going past the point of this discussion. And no, the rule for the multiple attack rolls system explicitly mentions that only ONE critical hit via a 12 is possible per attack. So you could roll three 12s and they would result in three damage but still only one critical hit, unless you did damage to the structure. This is how the DFA pilot die system also works by default. Both systems still increase the likelihood of getting that one critical hit due to the sheer amount of dice rolled. The (fabulous) comments here talk about some house rules that bring the probability of landing a critical hit back down to the RAW level when using either the pilot die or MAR.

[@MadMax-el2el]

For alpha strike we use either a d12 per attack or 2d6 per attack. Not a fan of the pilot dice method myself I have seen games get weirdly swingy. And the all of nothing is just not battletech... Generally for Aplha strike we just go with the d12s. Mainly because we have younger kids playing and a few of them cannot ham fist 10d6 for an attack roll, and 14d6 is just too much, rather than getting smaller dice because of the visually hindered amongst us. We just started using d12, because the kids can pull off 7d12. We tried a dice cup, but that went over like a lead balloon.

[@mitchmichaelson2828]

Our first games used the 3+ damage point method.

[@danwehmeier9717]

MAR with a maximum of 1 crit per attack phase. Don’t need to add extra dice like they do in Southern Assault.

[@almostgoodvariant]

@@danwehmeier9717 that’s how it is in the rulebook, yeah. I believe Southern Assault’s idea is that only a specific pair of dice can land that one crit, not every pair.

[@karlrichards7188]

Me and my girlfriend use different coloured dice for the weapons and roll to see if it hits or not and it's fun to one shot a Warhammer with a timberwolf from long range

[@Ruggedtoaster]

Raw has the problem of really favoring high damage units, which can make playing against a skill or very competitive player difficult if you find yourself in an unfavorable matchup worthy, say are playing clans in the invasion era and you’ll find it very often. They will just do their best to close with you as much as possible, knowing that the odds will actually favor them as you will likely have to focus down single units with multiple mechs whereas with one role they are going to be more likely to be able to spread their fire out and destroy multiple mechs per return.

[@RUINERx117]

More Dice = More FUN! I played default once and it was terribly boring.

[@johntrotter7372]

I havn't played enough AS, but would the RAW allow for overkill, and thus be a interesting factor on profiles and list design?

[@leonardogoncalves5372]

I just use a lot of D12 but you can only do one critical max per roll +1 crit for strut

[@Miranda_Ghost]

Do these different methods have an impact on the calculation of if/when to overheat?

[@JosephMitchell-zw3db]

Interesting thanks

[@jamessmith5666]

I'm trying a kind of 2.0 version of the game and calling it Beta Strike. It's like Alpha Strike but with a more Mechwarrior sim like feel with the following house rules; 1) Initiative sequence; Highest roll moves first instead of last, and does their unit firing at the beginning, during or at the end of their movement. Damage takes effect immediately. With a commander, the player may choose their units to act in any order they like. Without a commander, or if the commander is killed, then movement goes from the size 1 units first, to size 2, 3 then 4. This allows units to do 'shots on the run' then get into cover. Use target's most recent TMM 2) Us the Death from Above pilot die system for attack rolls 3) Applying damage; use a / X to cross off damage for each armour bubble. This effectively doubles the armour and structure of all units. eg, a unit takes 3 points of damage, instead of blotting out 3 armour bubbles, the first bubble gets a / and X and the second bubble gets a /. This increases the longevity of all units to help balance rule 1. 4) Clan Range; Clan players get a slight bump in their range bracket; Short= up to 8" or 4 hexes, Medium= 9" to 26" or 5 to 13 hexes, Long= 27" to 44" or 14 to 22 hexes. This represents the better ranges of Clan weapons. 5) Play it on mapheets preferably; Half the unit unit movement as described in the Commanders Edition. Alpha Strike (Beta Strike) is an abstract version of the game, and mapsheets are abstract battlefields. Classic Battletech is a detailed version of the game and 3d battlefields are detailed terrain sets. Give it a try if you're open to experimentation.

[@almostgoodvariant]

Interesting! That’s a pretty significant change to how the system works and almost like a different game entirely, fitting, then, that you’d call it Beta Strike! Would love to give it a go some time, will need to see if someone likes the idea.

[@jamessmith5666]

@@almostgoodvariant Yeah it’s enough of a change from the base game that it needs another name. There was one other rule I’m looking to try next game. And funny enough it’s an actual Alpha Strike. One 2d6 roll at a +1 to hit. Do full damage, plus overheat damage, plus 1. Adds 1 point per Over Heat value plus 1 extra heat. The Alpha Strike was always supposed to be a devestating attack, and in the PC games it usually focuses on one part of the mech with 1 pull of the trigger.

[@ShawnEnge]

I prefer MAR. I loathe the option of the "pilot die". It makes it way too swingy, IMO. Multiple Attack Role gives a bit more flexibility than the all-or-nothing for RAW.

[@CTCParadox]

Pilot Die is the middle option in terms of swingyness yeah? RAW is the swingiest, Pilot Die in the middle, MAR the least swingy.

[@ShawnEnge]

@@CTCParadox Agreed. That's why I prefer MAR all the way.

[@sergprot1053]

only multiple attack rolls - true variant

[@Dassenkop]

I also heard people using D12 for attacks. I understood this is with a colored dice for criticals. Not sure how that works out and whether its 1 D12 or multiple for each 'attack' point. D12 is more even vs 2D6 I guess.

[@detn_n8383]

D12 is flat probably vs bell curve of 2d6. It does increase the chance of crit, but also decrease the chances to hit in the mid range of the possible results. I played some D12 games because people playing with me were DnD players and it was easier for them to catch up. Personally I prefer 2d6 because it feels more like a simulation, where a trained soldier is more likely to reliably deliver a sure shot than hitting a bullseye, or fumbling it completely. Also, I like to switch between the ways of calculating to hit depending on the game scale. It's MAR/PilotDie for under one lance or a star per side, and RAW when there's 2+ lances per side.

[@paulkleihege1509]

My kids and I play with d12s, one for each attack point in a given shot. I haven't noticed a big difference in frequency of hits or crits from using 2d6 per attack point, but since my kids are a bit younger the numbers on the d12 are easier for them to read. What I love about BTech, especially AS, is how malleable it is.

[@stephentanner2490]

We play D12 but use one different coloured dice for the "Crit" chance - so if you had damage 3 you would roll 2d12 of 1 colour and 1d12 crit dice - it works for us :)

[@atchman2]

Loved the video, only suggestion is don''t use fancy dice. I can never tell if they are rolling a 6 or a 1. :)

[@almostgoodvariant]

Good point! However, BattleTech dice always have the logo/fancy picture as a 6.

[@99zxk]

The DFA system seems to frequently be all or nothing.

[@almostgoodvariant]

That is my issue with it. However, in that sense it does align more with the way the AS rules are written.

[@99zxk]

@@almostgoodvariant Sure, but I think that it's in their classic BT rules, too.

[@sanghelian]

It just occurred to me: D12 with MAR? One roll with D12 sounds really awful, but MAR would have some intresting implications. Bad pilot in good mech is better than elite pilot in bad mech, and if your mech has very specific range bracket where it does most of its damage potential, it REALLY pays off to keep it there. Not to mention multi-crit glory shots become somewhat likely. And i guess someone with more experience could come up even more weird consequences...

[@almostgoodvariant]

Interesting thought! Maybe I’ll need to run these numbers in a follow-up video.

[@sovietonion3937]

Pilot die is why I don't play Alpha Strike. Really, really dislike it.

[@almostgoodvariant]

Interesting! Just really don’t like how it feels or something else? I suppose your local players like to only use it, then.