Rolling Stock of Sydney: The Bradfield Suburban Trains

[@davidbennetts616]

They were interesting cars for their time. Left in service far too long, and the decision to rebuild the motors into the two vestibule design in the 1960s was a stop gap measure which shouldn't have happened, all to save money by deferring their replacement even further. The trailer cars rapidly disappeared in the 1960s as the double deck trailers came into service. The main concern was their safety, wooden body construction was nowhere near as crashworthy as steel and of course they were more flammable. Wooden carriages were more prone to telescoping in the event of a crash, this had been proven overseas and here at home. I can recall many years ago Bradfield cars, even once a driving trailer car being marshalled at the end of eight car sets, rather in in the middle, so little regard was paid to safety of crew and passengers. As the cars got older their body integrity suffered, if you sat toward the end of the car you would notice the walls flex considerably at curves and track joints.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

Sounds like the NSW government in the 1960s. That flexxing thing sounds concerning to put it lightly. At least they're museum pieces now.

[@ktipuss]

Some four car sets had Bradfields as the lead car as well. Late night two car sets on the Lidcombe to Liverpool via Regent's Park trains were often all wooden, with a converted end-platform car as the "dummy" D driver car with a Bradfield C providing the power. I also noticed that flexing of the Bradfield interiors by the early 1970s.

[@afs5609]

All of these cars being timber except some of the power cars that had steel panels attached to timber body frame had a timber roof, covered with canvas and to make it waterproof a thick yellow paint they called "navy dressing" (any railway car builders out there may correct me if I got the name wrong), these roofs of course due to a lack of maintenance would leak during the heavy summer rain storms, and I along with others found it amusing to see well dressed business men sitting in these carriages with their umbrellas up, the other frighting problem they were not well braced between the side walls and if you were sitting or standing at one end of the carriage you could see the body twisting as the carriage negotiated the curves, it should also be noted that the poor quality track conditions along with the early designed bogies were not very kind to the ageing timber work along with the loose screws & bolts that held them together, they should have been withdrawn before the 1940's but due to many factors includingTHE DEPRESSION & WW2, they struggled on till the advent of the more modern double deck trailer carriages started to be introduced in the mid sixties and the introduction of the first DD POWER CARS in the early seventies.

[@tsegulin]

I used to take the train from Town Hall to Gordon to primary school in 1965. I remember the metal Bradfield and wooden T cars well. Since neither had power operated doors, I could hang out into the slipstream, which was especially inspiring in good weather as the northbound train rounded the broad curve between Waverton and Wollstonecraft with a fabulous vista of the distant harbour behind two large gasometers. If you sat up one end of the old wooden T cars and watched the far end as train rounded bends, you could see it twist slightly, suggesting the entire car was warping in the bend. I never saw this on any of the other cars and assumed the chassis must have been wooden, but the video states these were built on a metal one. The T cars also had vertically sliding windows which could be latched very high up, enabling me to stick my head out far further than I should have. By 1965 the Bradfield cars were quite old and made a loud 'clunk' followed by somewhat scary growling noise when the power was applied and a 'clunk' without the growl when it was cut - worn out bogie drive gears? The driver either stood or sat on a rather uncomfortable looking wooden stool with a wall of exposed, large 'fuses' behind him, which I always thought looked mighty dangerous should he ever trip back into them. In 1965 Bradfield trains had a reputation for occasionally failing on the relatively steep upgrade from Wynyard to the Bridge with smoke in the driver's cab (blown 'fuses'?), requiring the next train to help push them up the grade after which they were terminated at North Sydney and we all had to transfer to another train. This made me late to school a few times but I also used it more frequently as an excuse for my own tardiness. I'm surprised you cite the Bradfield cars as being constructed from wood. I recall them having riveted metal plates on the exterior. Was the internal frame wood later retrofitted with metal sheets? Is my memory faulty? Thanks for the drawings of the Bradfield bogies at 02:23 etc. but oddly I don't see the arrangement of the electric motor in them. The seem to have totally independent axles but at least one would have had to have been driven by a motor, perhaps by some sort of reduction gear arrangement built into the inboard side of the wheel engaging a smaller gear on the motor. Keep up the good work, thank you. This is a piece of Sydney history that has probably been largely forgotten.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

Thanks for your comment! A few people have commented about the cladding, apparently they were steel clad in early years, but had it replaced by wood later on. But I've not seen any source to confirm or deny it. It would explain why early photos show them to be quite shiny and later photos show them to be quite matte. That diagram is only for the general arrangement, there are photos of the complete bogeys showing one motor per axle, but I didn't include them due to the poor quality of the photos. You can find them in this report however (I think it's open access, but it might require a university login): search.informit.org/doi/abs/10.3316/INFORMIT.865757671499230

[@johncavar2914]

🎉wow bro 🎉exciting those were the days..old Luna Park ..wooden big dipper ..old show grounds ..huge exhibition halls ..

[@loumullen614]

I remember riding in Bradfield's from early 60's south and western suburb's, the experience for a kid who loved trains was exciting to say the least, the 70's seen change happening and people started complaining the old wooden car's was uncomfortable and wet when it rained culminated with a hasty withdrawal form service in the mid 70's, it was a bitter pill to swallow for a fan of the Bradfield's.

[@Lepusrabbit]

Wooden trains like cars at the time common 👍

[@davidbennetts616]

Hello Again You'll find some of the info you were asking about the Bradfield cars in the book Sydney's Electric Trains by John Beckhaus and Stephen Halgren. Quite a lot of colour photos, and specific dates and car numbers of the refurbished ones/ The wooden bodies of the motor cars were steel clad in 1930. Interestingly this cladding was removed and replaced by plywood when in the 1960s they were refurbished with the different internal layout - possibly making them even more dangerous in the event of a fire. Plywood also replaced the matchboard sides in the trailer cars. Although not generally done on the Sydney trains, I saw at least one instance when the centre cars of an eight car set had their pantographs back to back. Of course the 46 class electrics had two pantographs, as these were relatively short locos, there wouldn't have been a great distance between them when both were raised.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

I'll have to look into that book then, thankyou! I did notice they seemed a lot shinier in early photos, and duller in later ones. I just assumed that was due to deterioration, but different cladding would make more sense! I completley forget electric locomotives in NSW always used both pantographs. I'll have to look into it more to be honest. Maybe locomotives were designed differently to account for it.

[@tobys_transport_videos]

David, the cars you make mention of of getting a new interior in the 1960s were the Rebuilt Bradfield cars (see C3067 in this video). This was a whole new body, built to the Standard Car design, but none still exist as motor cars, the only rebuilt car being D4009, which I think is owned by someone in SETS. The positioning of pantographs spaced apart is mainly a Sydney-thing (although not exclusive to Sydney alone.) Melbourne had, until the Comeng sets were built, the pantograph at the front of the car. Also sets of Parcel Vans could be run "panto-to-panto" as they had drivers' cabs at both ends (except one of the last cars so converted, which was basically just a stripped out 2-motor Standard Car.)

[@DKS225]

With the Rebuilt Bradfields only 17 were Rebuilt to the Standard Car layout and none of them were preserved due to the bulkheads being weakened when being rebuilt. Source The ARHS Publication Sydney's Electric Trains by John Beckhaus and Stephen Halgren. With The early Standards of The C3101-3150 Leeds Forge built them. The remaining Standards built by Walsh Island Dockyard with a small amount being built at Clyde Engineering. The last of The original as built Bradfields were withdrawn by February 1975.

[@tims8305]

Thanks heaps for this video. I remember travelling to school on "Red Rattlers" in the early 70s which I now can see from your video were probably from the early 60s. Hot and sweaty on those bench seats in the summer so we used to hang out of the wide open doors to get the breeze. A bit of argy bargy to get the best spot with no real safety considerations! I'll never forget the smell of the brakes as we came into a station. They have that great retro look but not great for the passengers if the train was packed on a scorching Sydney summer day!

[@tobys_transport_videos]

The term "Red Rattler" was a derogatory word made by the media initially in Melbourne, and later used widespread in the late 80s to cover anything old. As a kid riding them in the 70s and 80s and up to their last day in 1992, I can tell you that they were NEVER called that disgusting RR word. To us railfans they were just "Single Deckers." The Bradfield cars dated from the late 1910s (IIRC) while the steel cars (C3101 onwards) dated from 1924, entering service initially with the Bradfield cars steam-hauled, then as Electric Trains from 1926. Some cars were built in the early-mid 1950s by Tulloch Ltd, Rhodes, and another batch with auto-doors (nicknamed "Sputnik sets") were built by Commonwealth Engineering in the late 1950s, along with the first stainless steel trains (which we railfans called "U Boats").

[@berniestar1490]

We had great leaders back then, making decisions based on serving the community. The infrastructure was very advanced and still in use today. Projects in NSW now suffer from all the rorts and kickbacks and cost 10 times what they should, we have a total breakdown of civil responsibilities.

[@Read6101]

Very well researched and presented video. Good job.

[@dirkupnmoor]

Good historical overview. A very reasonable decision to use the freshly built coaches as non-driven trailers.

[@Steven_Rowe]

It was my father in law Roy Leembruggen who designed the Tulloch double deck trailer cars

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

I bet he had a bunch of good stories to tell about their development!

[@ObsessedwithTrains]

Very great start to this series! Excited to see your future projects!

[@jackpallace275]

I seem to remember that there were still a few wooden carriages in use during the war years and perhaps a little beyond. This would have been on the main Western line. Great Video . Thank You.

[@metricstormtrooper]

1964 of 5 in my experience, just on the Saturday all stations to Parramatta as I remember, although they may have gone through to to city.

[@davidmccarthy6390]

I used to live in Lithgow, at the western terminus of the electric system, and I can tell you that in the 70's they were still using the old rolling stock that had the passenger cabins with 2 bench seats in them facing each other with a door to the corridor. They were used for any service that went beyond Lithgow. They were hauled by electric locos (the ones that are used for freight to this day). We also had the single deck electrics like the ones you are discussing running to Lithgow. These were replced by the double decker intercity fleet that is about to be decommisioned (They had to widen all the tunnels to accomodate the double decker carriages). I have fond memories of travelling on those, and pre XPT days they were used to go past Lithgow to Bathust, Orange, Dubbo, etc - they would change out the electric loco for a diesel one at Lithgow. The arrival of the XPT in the 80's consigned these trains and their carriages to the scrapheap of history as they no longer had any viable use.

[@tobys_transport_videos]

There are no electric locos used in NSW. The locos you refer to in use in the 1970s were the 46 class, which were all withdrawn by the mid-90s. There are several in preservation, but none in use currently.

[@davidmccarthy6390]

@@tobys_transport_videos The time period I am talking about is when I lived in Lithgow, from 1975-2007. in 1975 we did have passenger trains hauled by electric locos-they were the services that originated in Orange, Dubbo, Mudgee and Cowra lines, they had diesel locos to Lithgow, then they changed to electric. But also, due to the H sets not being able to get through the tunnels there were still trains with electirc locos that started from Lithgow as well. These were the trains that had the booths with the facing bench seats and glass doors and the other old style carriages, and they all terminated at Central. Also other older rolling stock that had been discontinued on the sydney lines had a lifeline on Lithgow leg of the western line before the tunnels upgrade. It is how I got to travel in these old style passenger carriages. At the time (1970's), they had both single decker and double decker H sets going to Lithgow When they upgraded the 10 tunnels so the double decker H sets could get through to Lithgow, both single and double decker trains were used at first. They slowly retired the single decker fleet, and the H sets took that over that role for good. The new D sets will be a continuation of this trend. But the regional trains from Dubbo, Orange, Cowra, etc still had the old school rolling stock. Then the XPT appeared.. Its arrival also spelt the end for passenger trains changing locos at Lithgow from a diesel loco to an electric loco, and meant the retirement of all of that rolling stock as well. The XPT is what replaced all of this, so what I was saying all referred to pre XPT days. ps. The Mudgee line was still operating at the time I am talking about.

[@tobys_transport_videos]

@@davidmccarthy6390 I am quite familiar with the period you are talking about. I grew up from the mid-70s and soon came to travel around the state, hence I know the carriages and locos of the era. There were no "double deck H sets" in that era. The interurban trains were all either "U Boats" (Single Deck Interurbans coded "U") or double deck Interurbans - "V sets," some of which are still in use today. H sets in that era and up until the last run were regular Single Deck suburban stock. These never went beyond Emu Plains - they wouldn't have fitted through the Glenbrook tunnel in that era. These days an H set is a modern abomination of a train with no soul and no character. U Boats continued to make occasional runs to Mt Victoria and Lithgow up until around 1995. I remember the 3.29pm Lithgow service and the 4.15pm Mt Victoria service, with the Mt Victoria train being express from Parramatta to Lapstone. IIRC it stabled at Mt Victoria whereas the train from Lithgow came back - at least as far as Mt Victoria. For most of the era of Electric Locomotive use, it was the domain of the 46 class. Around 1979/1980 the ten member 85 class appeared, although I think their use on passenger trains wasn't common. From the mid 1980s the fifty member 86 class appeared. These were similar to the 85 class, only painted Candy from new. In regards to passenger stock, no Sydney suburban cars were ever used west of Emu Plains until more recent times when Oscars (modern day H sets) and Outer Suburban Tangaras (G sets) were used as far as Springwood in regular service. All loco-hauled stock was purpose built (or rebuilt, in the case of the wooden Supplementary Interurban cars such as those that were in the Granville Disaster.) These were non-air-conditioned open-saloon cars with 2+2 seats. The through train from Bathurst was a mix of three wooden cars fitted with underfloor generators for heating. Two of these cars were compartment cars, the other was an open saloon car with a Guard's Compartment. I lived in Lithgow for a number of years, so I know about its cold! The XPT was another story... It replaced the 6 steel air conditioned cars of the Central West Express, which had been electric-hauled (mostly) to Lithgow since electrification opened there around 1960. Initially there were rail connections to Mudgee and Cowra, but these were replaced by road coaches by the mid-to-late 80s under the Greiner Government, which I see as the worst NSW Government of my life so far. In mid 1994 the last locomotive-hauled trains (outside of the Indian Pacific) ran in regular service using former long-distance air-conditioned cars. I was there riding these trains in those final few years.

[@tobys_transport_videos]

The Bradfield cars and wooden trailers you make mention of as being owned by the Hunter Valley Railway Trust were previously stored in the open, rotting at Elcar until that place was closed and destroyed. From what I've heard these cars have since been purchased by a private individual within the Sydney Electric Train Society (SETS). Also, the Bradfield cars basic history is detailed in an out-of-print book titled "Sydney's Wooden Electrics," which has the same cover as your video thumbnail. Also, the Bradfield cars were all steam-hauled (hence the buffer holes (plated over) and the evidence of Corridor Connections), along with a number of steel-bodied Standard Cars (built from 1924 but entering service from around 1926). I'm not sure how many cars made up a train, but it certainly would have been a sight and sound in regular service, hauled by a 30 class tank engine!!! If you don't have it already, then Volume 3 of the NSW Passenger Car series of books may fill a number of gaps. I don't have either book, so I can't help you out with any further research.

[@tacitdionysus3220]

Thank you for this clip. The 'early' Sydney trains all get relegated as 'red rattlers' (a more recent term, copied from the nickname given to old Melbourne trains), and modern rail fans act as if the real world started with S sets. As a kid in the 60s, wooden Bradfield cars were still reasonably common. Your assumption about the D cars being mostly for 2 car sets is correct. Another variation were the single motor carriage Fast Electric Parcel Vans from the days when you sent parcels by rail. Your clip also shows the single deck stainless steel "U Boats" , forerunner of the V sets and damn fine interurban trains From 1926 the Standard and Tulloch cars became more common, easily distinguished by their doorways. Standards had two doors closing at the centre of one large doorway Tullochs had two separate doors in two closely separated doorways. In the 1950s, electric powered doors were introduced with the Sputnik class. (Must have been a bit of Bolshevik influence around that time). The first double deck cars I recall were tuscan red trailers, with the power cars being single deck Sputniks. Railfan's from that era would have relied upon a book called "First Stop Central". You can still get copies online (apparently from the UK at somewhat higher prices than I paid). The book also included the 5 coded route lights on the front of single deck electric trains, which indicated the route they were on (e.g. see at 6.27). A white light on each side at the top of the front of the train meant Western line, I think. Liverpool was a top centre and a light on the top right (as viewed when approaching). The rear lights were always two top reds on each side. Old drivers and guards would probably remember them; not sure if they were to indicate the route of train to the numerous old manual signal box operators. Seeing how it's traditional to suggest other subjects to you. If you haven't done the remnants of the old Camden line (technically a tramway) it still has visible fragments. Remnants of the raised track formation can be seen on the right in the fields as you approach the bridge into Camden, on the way in from Narellan. Around Kirkham you'll see a line of tress which aligns with the old tracks.The line ran on a parallel bridge just to the north of the road bridge, and ran along the road about where Enzo's now sits. IIRC the station was at the now heritage Camden Vale Milk Company building (in fact I think what is now the roof covered side fronting Argyle St was where they loaded milk onto the trains. (Milk supply in those days was from the highly over-regulated Sydney Milk Zone). Most of that is visible on Google Earth. It used to cross the road heading for Campbelltown around where Maccas is at Narellan. Don't know if it's still there, but Maccas used to have photo-murals on their wall showing the trains in their heyday. It ran to/from Campbelltown, using what is now Platform 1, I think.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

Thanks! I actually don't think the term 'red rattler' originates in Australia. It seems to be used around the world, it's quite common in NYC for their 50s era subway trains. Maybe I'll have to do a video to find out where it came from. I also intentionally left the parcel vans out. They'r unique enough that they're getting their own video >:) You are also correct on the Standards/Tullochs/Sputniks. I do intend on doing a deep dive into them in the near future, and the Tulloch double deckers too. I'll have to try and get my hands on a copy of that book! I do wanna do a video on the marker lights sometime. They're a weird leftover that's even train nerds of my generation don't know about. Funnily enough, I'm one step ahead of you! I was thinking of doing the Camden line in the very near future. Maybe after the Red Rattler video. I was actually retracing part of the line in person today, and there's really not much left.

[@tacitdionysus3220]

@@CityConnectionsMedia Thanks for that. My 'bee in the bonnet' about red rattlers is everyone seems to think they were called that back in their day in Sydney; and they just weren't. It seems so disrespectful to trains that were very functional and usually running faster than most of today's services; as much as I also like the modern stock. A lot of the Camden line has disappeared, so what's left is probably its last vestiges. The widening of Narellan Rd wiped out a lot of it. You've probably seen the clip at kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHXOmoSnn9yjkKM The old two lane Narellan Rd with barely any traffic beside the line features prominently in it. O

[@zman1508]

I think it's wild looking at the rail maps from the 40s and today for Sydney. Basically the entire network was built back then. Hardly anything new compared to the explosion in the pre war period. Hopefully we get more rail soon as Sydney grows.

[@iris4547]

everything that wasnt built has been forgotten since then. the work has already been done from north sydney to st leonards to start the northern beaches rail. we all know thats never going to happen now.

[@theaussiebackflipboy]

I came into possession many years ago of a book titled "Electrification Of Sydney And Suburban Railways - The Genesis Of The Sydney Electric Railway System" from the Australian Railway Historical Society that has a lot of detailed information about the electrification of the rail network. If you can find a copy, it's an interesting read.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

I might track down a copy, thanks for the tip!

[@tobys_transport_videos]

IIRC that has a yellow cover and a picture of an all-red 8 car S set on it. I "should" have it too...

[@johnmills9565]

Really good video, very informative. I had no idea about the history.

[@peterhoz]

Interesting that the bulk of the early work, including Bradfield's overseas research travels, were during WW1. I wonder if supply shortages had an influence on the construction and design, including the choice of wooden frames?

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

I think it was just that we didn't have the technology to build steel bodied cars locally. we saw something similar in the US and UK with their early subway/underground trains. They were all made off wood until the technology to build steel bodied cars was available, and this was in the early 1900s. WW1 could have been a factor, but probably not a big one.

[@tobys_transport_videos]

Not all passenger cars of the era had timber frames, in fact most didn't. I think the Bradfield cars may have had steel frames, but wooden bodies. All the long-distance compartment cars from the mid 1910s onwards that were wooden bodied had steel frames. These are the 12-wheeler cars used on steam tours today. In 1938 the FS and BS all-steel cars entered service. These are shorter at around 65 feet (from memory) as opposed to 72' 6 " of the 12 wheeler stock. These cars sit on two 4-wheel bogies and are also extensively used on tour trains. There were also the N series open saloon cars (non air-conditioned) and the post-war air-conditioned RUB/HUB sets as used on the Newcastle Flyer, Central West Express, Canberra Express, Intercapital Daylight (initially to Albury and later to Melbourne) and the North Coast Daylight. This later train later became the Grafton Express, with some cars used on the Brisbane Limited and Gold Coast Motorail. After total replacement by XPT services a lot of these cars saw use on Cityrail loco-hauled services until 10/7/1994 when the last ones ran with 4468 and 4403 on the front.

[@doubledee9675]

An interesting and enjoyable video. I'm old enough to remember to first double-deck carriages coming into operation - they were coupled between single deck power cars from the first batch to have the doors controlled by the guard. Some interesting journeys when the train picked up a bit of speed between Stanmore and Newtown - the last 2 or 3 carriages felt as if they'd leave the tracks on the curves on the down side of Newtown. A question - where was the clip at 9.20 taken please? It looks a bit like Cheltenham.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

I bet they would have been a sight to behold back then. I'm really looking forward to doing a video on the Tulloch double deckers in the near future. I unfortunatley don't know where it was taken, the original film where it was taken from doesn't really say either. If you want to see the original, it's at 30:20 in the video below. kzbin.info/www/bejne/q6TMZX-DlM6Jq9k

[@aussiejohn5835]

I remember the many rough rides on these trains as they negotiated the points and cross overs between Summer Hill and Ashfield, which have since been removed. The express trains were especially exciting as they traversed these at speed and I remember hanging on tightly to the grab rails while leaning out of the doorway.

[@doubledee9675]

@@aussiejohn5835 I now have only a vague recollection of those points. The advances in railway technology in my lifetime have been amazing. Some things are better left not referred to though. Looking again at that clip, I'm coming around to the view that it's between Burwood and Croydon. It's a section with 6 tracks and that started on the up side of Strathfield and continued until the Southern lines joined.

[@doubledee9675]

My memory is that there were very few individual houses in this style once you reached Ashfield - mostly late-Victorian/early Edwardian

[@metricstormtrooper]

On some Saturday mornings the train I would get to Parramatta from Seven Hills in the early 1960s to go to music lessons was made up of a steam locomotive and wooden end platform entry very similar to that 1902 rolling stock.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

I wouldn't be surprised, those american stock carriages were around until I think the 70s? maybe even longer for country services.

[@nachtundnebel-up3nk]

very nice design

[@paulgerrard9227]

I recall the old carriages. One design element of the dual doors and wider vestibule was there was a internal post system that suported the pantograph. The single doors did not. Ironically smoking carriages had the larger vestibule and double doors.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

That's very curious. I'll have to look into that sometime

[@jamespeet3060]

I miss Australia

[@darylcheshire1618]

I’m from Melbourne so I wouldn’t know. I understand that U-boats were the stainless steel single deck trains. I remember seeing something like it in Brisbane in the ‘70s pulled by locomotives. Is it true that U-boats were sent to Brisbane for appraisal but never proceeded with. Or were they an entirely different train altogether? I know they’d have to be bogie-exchanged.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

You are correct! The Brisbane cars you're refering to are called the 'SX class' carriages, and were based on the U sets and built by the same company. They were actually designed to be converted to 1500v DC EMUs for an electrification scheme that never happened. I'm not sure if any were ever sent to Brisbane for appraisal, but I doubt they would have been. Even though the U sets are narrow by NSW standards, they were ~200mm wider than QR's loading gauge. Even with different bogies, they would have been too wide for Queensland. I do have plans to do a video on the U sets and SX carriages in the near future. For the latter I really want to do a 'what if' section and get an artist to draw up what they would have looked like if they were converted. But that's for future me to take care of.

[@tobys_transport_videos]

@@CityConnectionsMedia Correct about the SX sets. I rode these extensively in Brisbane in their last years, and loved them. No U Boats were ever sent north - they would have been all needed at the time for Gosford and Blue Mountains services. In regards to the SX sets, the interiors were similar to a Sydney "Sputnik" car (later W set motor car - all built by Commonwealth Engineering (Comeng)). The SX cars weren't suitable for the 1979 Brisbane Electrification as by then they were already well over 10 years old, and only insulated for 1500V DC, whereas Brisbane (and the rest of the QR electric railway network) went 25Kv AC. A working model of SX set 36 as an Electric Train exists in the collection with AMRA in Brisbane. As someone used to seeing them as loco-hauled trains, seeing one as a self-propelled Electric Train looked odd!

[@trainity7330]

Dam! I never really thought on how detailed this video would be about the history of suburban cars, really amazing job.

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

Thanks! Going in depth is my way of sticking out, so I'm glad I'm doing that.

[@ktipuss]

I have a question of my own for someone to answer: those wooden trailer cars (not the Bradfield motored cars) were withdrawn in earnest in the early 1960s and the introduction of the first double deckers finished them off by the mid 1960s. For some odd reason they were taken to RAAF stores at Regent's Park after withdrawal ans their final scrapping; the reason for this I could never figure out. I did see a rake of 6 of these old cars, one with the roof cover half peeled off, propelled along the short branch line from RAAF Stores to the goods siding at Regent's Park station behind a 50 class, presumably for their final journey to Clyde for scrapping. Does anyone know what was done to them while at RAAF Stores?

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

The story behind that I'd like to know too

[@RangaTurk]

I trust asbestos removal if they had their roofs modified in the late 1940s or early 1950s as a fire precaution. Many of these converted end platform ex-cowboy cars date from before World War One i.e. primarily from that golden age period 1911-13. They did this in the early 1990s to some of the cars too.

[@ktipuss]

@@RangaTurk Then again, the RAAF sidings may have simply been used to store the cars somewhere prior to scrapping. The Brickworks/Abbatoirs lines at Homebush Bay were used to store "retired" steel cars before they were eventually scrapped (before the whole site was redeveloped for the 200 Olympics).

[@RangaTurk]

@@ktipuss They have also used the Commonwealth Sidings at Botany in 1981 to store old Nepean Milk boxcars (NZPA) and Mascot Loop in 1986 to store old cement hoppers (NPAX) before they were cut up at Simsmetal. Their siding was probably already full of other condemned wagons creating a spillover.

[@darylcheshire1618]

I remember some Harris car bodies were sealed in plastic and sunk in a quarry near Oakleigh. Caused a stir at the time. Before then old Tait cars were burned at Allendale on the former Daylesford-North Creswick line. People complained about the burning so that was stopped. The Harrises were apparently “full of asbestos”. Tait cars were never allowed in The Loop in case they caught fire. Some of the burning Taits had “City Loop” as their destination. I myself travelled through the Loop in a Tait as some were sent through the Loop in the first week of operation including the train I was waiting for. One fateful day when the direction of the Loop was changed at lunchtime, the next train was a pair of L classes and a load of bricquettes. I wondered if single bricquettes could still be found in a Loop tunnel?

[@peteregan3862]

There is the axle weight issue too. Putting the control equipment on trailer cars evened out the weight. The concept of motor and trailer cars meant trailer cars could have a lesser maintenance regime cutting costs

[@tobys_transport_videos]

The trailer cars with control equipment were D cars - Driving Trailers. Ultimately all Single Deck motor cars were Control cars (C cars). It wasn't until the introduction of the T sets (Tangarbage) that the second car of a pair had the motors, hence the codes D and N on them. The lead car is actually a Driving Trailer, and the second car a Non-Driving motor car. The K sets (and C sets - originally K40 series K sets) have the panto on the trailer car as the motor car (heavier than a Comeng of Goninan S set motor car) has all the air conditioning (originally just forced-air ventilation) equipment in its roof.

[@ranwest2213]

Does anyone know if there is a plan to turn kingsford smith into anything new when the additional airport is built? High density housing close to city Centre?

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

I believe they're going to keep it open unfortunatley. It's still a major airport.

[@tobys_transport_videos]

The looney Greens had a "wish" over 10 years ago to have the existing Sydney Airport (Mascot) closed and moved. When asked "Where to?" they had no idea. They just wanted it closed. This was before the Badgerys Creek Airport was finally given the go ahead to be constructed. This I note is intended as Sydney's *SECOND* major airport. You have about as much chance of closing Mascot Airport as you do in turning Circular Quay into a Nature Reserve or golf course!

[@tld8102]

im getting deja-vu here

[@CityConnectionsMedia]

Well it is a re-upload :)