Romans

[@-RM-]

Thank you Dale for this sermon. I appreciated every moment (and agreed with all of it, too!). I cannot believe the amount of vitriol seen in the comments below.

[@_ReformedChristian_]

This is great!

[@jamesinnitbruv]

Hey you should check out Beyond the Fundamentals or Soteriology 101 sometime

[@kalewidman3291]

I would encourage everyone to go watch Joel Korytko’s video on Romans 9. It pulls in context and proper hermeneutics way better than this video does.

[@joshuamyers34]

@@kalewidman3291 checkout Soteriology 101 chanell for very in depth non-calvinist understanding of these passages.

[@thomasfryxelius5526]

I think Rom 9 is where we see if we can do proper Bible hermenetics. When we see "it does not depend..." do we then ask what "it" is? Or do we assume it is about individual salvation even if that is not the topic in question? When we see the potter-clay analogy, do we read the Old Testament and see what the Bible teach about it, or do we import our own ideas of what we think it should mean? Finally, do we read on and follow Paul's reasoning all the way through so we get the whole flow of the argument? Do we notice that Paul says hardened people can still be saved if they do not persist in unbelief or do we asssume a hardened person cannot believe?

[@kalewidman3291]

Even if Calvinism were true, this video is inconsistent and misleading. Why? Because if God predetermines everything, then whether or not I become a Calvinist is completely out of my control. Therefore, it makes no sense to make a tutorial on “How to Become a Calvinist” if the only thing that will make me a Calvinist is God predetermining me to be one.

[@rbellamy804]

He literally says in the beginning of the video that it's "tongue in cheek." Also, you saying "if Calvinism were true", is like saying "if scripture were true." A Calvinist is a person who simply accepts what the Bible teaches about salvation.

[@PaDutchRunner]

God’s sovereignty is compatible with our wills as creatures in His image - in other words, His Will does not equate to fatalism on our lives. It’s beyond our understanding.

[@wingchun1963]

​@@rbellamy804 Do they? Calvinists teach double predestination, where does the bible explicitly state, infer, suggest propose that God creates innocent life to be eternally damned? Where is free grace found? Never trust a reformed lawyer

[@Everyday_Gospel]

Haven’t watched this yet, but from the title, I’m wondering.. are you saying I… can… CHOOSE to become a Calvinist? 🤣

[@relearntv]

If you choose to follow Jesus, it means that God has already chosen you. Blessings.

[@Everyday_Gospel]

@@relearntv then did I get a choice?

[@relearntv]

If you have submitted your life to Christ, it means that He (God) has caused you to be born again in Christ.

[@Over-for-now]

" let God be TRUE and EVERY man a liar ". I don't even know for sure thst calvin was saved. Only God knows them that ARE HIS

[@bartanderson6476]

Never met a calvinist that isnt part of the elect. Funny how that works......

[@_derpderp]

I believed the gospel as soon as I was old enough to understand it, resting in His promises and mercies enduring forever. Then I learned TULIP and that salvation rested on my performance, feelings and knowledge. I grieved for decades almost to death. Now, I know which seed they would judge that I am. But I could never deny the Gospel of Jesus Christ the only means of salvation and peace to all men. But…Calvinism? I can’t believe two incongruous gospels.

[@douglasmcnay644]

How does Calvinism make salvation rest on performance, feelings, and knowledge? Can you give a reference for this claim?

[@Jmoffit22]

I had heard of you with the ear but now my eye sees. It’s my belief Job is a story of salvation, a rich, religious man coming to true faith and that Elihu was the only true believer prior to God speaking. Not a common view but neither is Calvinism 😏 So tired of hearing people regurgitate the same line, that God never answered Job’s questions. Job had all his questions answered when God revealed himself. Other than that, amen.

[@joshuaschaeffer2820]

Oof, sad to see this from a guy who seems to really care about the Bible

[@relearntv]

Why is it sad?

[@Over-for-now]

Why would you want to use calvin? Leave man out. Stay with the absolute sovereignty of God and forget calvin

[@TarasGrig-qw6mt]

Lol this brother keeps comparing inanimate objects God created to man made in His own image

[@Over-for-now]

I love the teaching on God's absolute sovereignty BUT it almost seems like heresy to KEEP bringing up the name of calvin. Jesus receives ALL GLORY and he will not share HIS glory with another

[@TheRomans9Guy]

Such a terrible misinterpretation of scripture in every breath of this video. Starts with absolute lack of context understanding, asks all the wrong questions of scripture at every turn, and concludes all the opposite things from the apostle. This is an abject bastardization of the text.

[@-RM-]

Please explain.

[@TheRomans9Guy]

@@-RM- The short version is: Everyone Paul’s 1st century world held the belief, before Christ came, that God only loved and chose the Jews as his people, and that (this part is supremely important) that it meant the Gentiles were dog meat. Sub human. Of course, that’s a hideous thing to say, (ask someone around you to agree that your race is the master race and that all other races aren’t even humans, and see how that conversation goes) but they not only believed it, they taught it from scripture. Many of the quotes Paul pulls in Romans 9 are actually phrases that were used by Jews in defense of this holy racism theology, but Paul is flipping all of them on their heads. He’s reversing the identity roles. He’s saying, ‘ok, you Jews like to say “Jacob I loved but Esau I hated” because you think it’s God saying he hates anyone who isn’t you, well what if God does hate people, but it’s you that he hates? How would you like your holy-racism-theology if YOU’RE actually the Esau??’ That’s the short version. Paul is correcting the Jews’ doctrine of election, not establishing a new one. That’s why he says all the things he says in chapters 1-5, in places like Rom 5:18 and 11:32.

[@joshuamyers34]

Not to mention critical passages omitted or cut off short. Most of these proof texts need greater context. People should really read Romans 8-11 consecutively to digest the whole message. I wish Dale would have read more of Jeremiah 18 when he referenced it. He cut it off just before Jeremiah tells the people to "repent" so that God doesn't shape them for a dishonorable use. This is a warning of Judgement (Judicial hardening) on those who choose disobedience.... not arbitrarily or unconditionally molded for reprobation and damnation.

[@TheRomans9Guy]

@@joshuamyers34 Right. And the English translation is not incorrect, Paul is asking “what if?” in the beginning of his potter references because the Jews already believed this theology, but he’s asking what if it were true but the roles were reversed? How would you like it then?? Paul knows it’s not true to begin with, God does NOT predestined some to glory and some to wrath, but what if it were, and you Jews were the wrath vessels??

[@joshuamyers34]

@@TheRomans9Guy well, when I read that part about God enduring vessels of wrath, I think of how God endured wicked rulers like pharoh for a time, in order that God's power and glory would be seen in the final outcome. Also the entire Bible points to the Gospel. Jesus had to endure the wrath and hatred of the Jews (from the same lump) who acted dishonorably and crucified him.

[@jonbrecke4436]

isogesis

[@douglasmcnay644]

Proof?

[@joshuamyers34]

There's just so many knots of misinterpreting scripture, missing the point, and false statements to disentangle here, it could take hours. I'm sorry Dale, I respect a lot of your opinions on social and cultural issues but these theological determinist viewpoints misrepresent God's character and are a real stumbling block for little ones not yet strong in their faith.

[@TheRomans9Guy]

Amen

[@Jmoffit22]

What precedes every evil work? The satanic notion that man is able to complete it. Think about it. Ability 👀

[@TheRomans9Guy]

@@Jmoffit22 What precedes every miracle Jesus performed? The satanic notion that Jesus was able to perform it. Think about it. Your logic is terrible.

[@relearntv]

What about this sermon misrepresents God's character?

[@joshuamyers34]

@@relearntv the implications of this determinist philosophical systematic misrepresent God's Character by: 1. making God to be the author of evil, reprobating most of humanity to hell without them having any ability to do anything about it, and for no apparent reason. 2. Making God and Christ appear to be deceptive, dishonest, and duplicitous... telling people to "seek the Lord" and to "believe" in him, and not wanting any to perish but all to come to salvation etc, when clearly that is not his desires under this systematic.

[@jonathanrocha2275]

I think this may be a timely message for me. I’m actually thinking of become a Calvinist/presbyterian

[@TheRomans9Guy]

Don’t do it. Calvinism is a terrible, blasphemous, maybe even evil theology based on hideous misinterpretation of a few key Bible passages.

[@-RM-]

@@TheRomans9Guy This, coming from someone who calls himself "TheRomans9Guy"? Am I missing something here? Have you actually READ Romans 9?

[@TheRomans9Guy]

@@-RM- Of course. But when Romans 9 is read with zero understanding of the context, it can lead to one coming up with terrible interpretations. Especially Calvinism. It would be the same today with something like the “MAGA” slogan. If someone heard that slogan but had no idea of the context behind it they could, and most likely would, come away with horrendous misunderstanding of the actual concept behind it. That’s what has happened with Romans 9.

[@Jmoffit22]

@@TheRomans9Guy True. We serve a different God. You serve the god of the Jews who believed yet taught faith plus works. The god of Pelagius and his semis- the Roman Catholic Church, Arminius, the Wesleyans and the vast majority of modern day “christendom”. To be honest, the same god of islam, hinduism, and all the other cults with a “synergistic” soteriology.

[@TheRomans9Guy]

@@Jmoffit22 If you accuse me of worshipping a God whose rule is that his followers earn glory through works, you demonstrate you know nothing of my thoughts. And in not bashful in describing them. There isn’t any synergism is salvation. There is God’s great grace and mercy. He forgives all men all by himself, with no input from us. There is man’s humors and surrender. Man can surrender, but only because God gave him the power to do so. Then there is God’s granting of eternal life. No synergism there either.