Rome (2004): HBO's Untold 5 Season Story

HBO's Rome is one of the greatest television shows ever made, but the premium network infamously cancelled Rome after just two seasons. It is a decision HBO executives later admitted was a mistake. In this video essay, we explore why HBO cancelled Rome and what the showrunners envisioned as the full, 5 season story arc. Which characters were meant to survive? What historical storylines would have been explored? And what was the show's final scene supposed to be at the end of five seasons?
We'll unearth interviews with Bruno Heller and William J MacDonald, hear from actors like Kevin McKidd, and attempt to piece together a vision of Rome's full potential if HBO had not cancelled the show prematurely.
If you enjoy this video essay about Rome, you should check out Greg's analysis of another HBO show, The Pacific, which remains the most expensive show HBO ever produced. Or how about his complete script rewrite of Napoleon, Ridley Scott's questionable 2023 film? This is a channel about historical wargames, but wargamers do love a good historical film or show!

[@HardingWE]

This video was sponsored by the Guild of Millers. The Guild of Millers uses only the finest grains, true Roman bread for true Romans.

[@LittleWarsTV]

Haha. From one fan to another, thank you for that.

[@silverjace1482]

Pin that

[@markwalters4525]

We will always have the Newsreader.

[@jello_cudgel9213]

Nice one! Made my morning

[@McYankee84]

he wears soot on his eyes like a prostitute and dances in nilotic rituals!

[@RohanSlazar]

Rome walked so GOT could run, trip and break its neck at the finish line.

[@kenricnarbrough8191]

Hahahahahaha

[@magicbuns4868]

At the finish line? It tripped up and broke it's neck the moment it's head got too big. ;P

[@MB-rt9dq]

Recently watched Rome for the first time. Every Atia scene made me realize how much the GOT tv series used Rome has a blueprint.

[@METALFREAK03]

@@MB-rt9dq all tv you see now is Rome as a blueprint mate. Rome was fantastic. Damn yanks and their nature of non bribery (whilst being a culture of tips? hypocrisy)

[@charlescatt4607]

Hahahahahahahaaha

[@rawpotatofella9654]

The biggest travesty was not having 5 seasons of this masterpiece.

[@skeletoor5047]

Yeah and even if somehow they decide to bring it back it won’t be as good as it was

[@thijsjong]

This was going to be the best tv series ever if it lasted longer. I loved almost everything about it. I think it stuck as close as possible to how the life of a roman centurion would have been. The poliitcs backstabbing and intrigues of the patrician class. The militairy campaigns. How horrible classical battles were. The lives or ordinairy citizens. Drama. Real historic events. You get immersed in the time. The glory, the heartbreak, the grueling grit of existence and brotherhood. It had everything.. IT WAS EXPENSIVE. But what a shame it could not continue. Game of thrones got into trouble that they had to wrap it up in too few seasons. Also money trouble.

[@reheyesd8666]

It would be nice to have Alexander the Great series too tbh

[@MadMatTom7769]

@@thijsjong Did you also liked sibling incest? So many convenient shortcuts i can't even remember? Caesar stoping in rome instead of pursuing Pompey, just to pay visit to some ghlf. Cleopatra w/out charisma, roman soldier swimmin whole egean sea...Oh and let's not forget how much screentime that fat, ugly Atia Fellatia got.

[@CarlosChavez-yd1ge]

Wow this is also 1 of my top 5 of Roman shows that they ever put out.......& you mean to tell me there was more seasons (5 in total)......WOW JUST WOW😢😢😢😢😮😮😮.......I could name a few other shows that really deserved cancellation........I wish they would have finished the 5 seasons or shoot I would have settled for at least a third season but I digress 😢😢.............

[@ArtoriaPendragon-t8m]

With Ray gone, we'll never get to experience this...rest in peace Titus Pullo, legend of the 13th.

[@konstantinoskalavrezos5273]

Both of Caesars's strongest soldiers!!

[@aunch3]

Odds are they’d butcher it today anyway; the golden era of TV dramas is over look at how GoT ended up or The Ring of Power. If Ring of Power had been made 20 years ago I guarantee it’d have been much better.

[@squamish4244]

@@aunch3 Rings of Power was partly the result of the Tolkien Estate's greed. Golden age is still doing fine. GoT was something that will never happen again because no service will touch unfinished material anymore after that disaster. Patrick Rothfuss was approached about adapting The Name of the Wind trilogy, but because he is unable to finish the final book, companies have backed off.

[@mobcharacter4061]

THIRTEEN!!!

[@el_aleman]

Ray Stevenson (1964-2023) was the only actor in the world who could pull off Titus Pullo. God Bless' him.

[@Tapsomebong234]

RIP to Ray Stephenson

[@stephenwood6663]

What we do in life, echoes in eternity!

[@DrCruel]

Sic transit gloria mundi.

[@Crossword131]

Noooooo! Pullo is gone?

[@derrickmarais]

THIRTEEN!!!!

[@JoeBlackbeard]

​@@derrickmarais thirteen 😢

[@ashlielove6513]

To this day when I think of Julius Caesar I see Ciaran Hinds and I will accept no other Mark Antony but James Purefoy. Gladiator started my obsession of Roman history and Rome solidified it forever. Rome is my favorite HBO series of all time. It was perfection on all fronts.

[@matthiasthulman4058]

You should read Marching With Caesar by RW Peake. It follows a Titus Pullo character from boyhood all the way into the legion. It's fantastic

[@sakabula2357]

Yip..when I think of Ceaser I see his face..He owned this role..but all of the actors did an exceptional job...just a great show overall..and without this particular set of actors and writers a remake will be pointless...pity HBO bungled this one

[@mutteringmale]

And then they destroyed your vision of Rome with the horrors of Gladiator 2. Now my memories are overlain with horror and loathing.

[@lynettesmith6971]

@@ashlielove6513 brought the series on video, watched it many times, a feast for the eyes and great for learning a bit of Roman history. Have been to Rome, and these images came flooding back xx

[@williamfrank962]

While this isn’t a sequel but to me was a fun send off. The two actors are in John Carter of mars and funnily enough play similar characters to that of Ceaser and Anthony. Ciaran plays a king who’s playing politics and James is playing a fun chaotic general with a love of women. The two are only in the movie for a couple minutes but it felt like a reunion of the two.

[@yc4118]

Half-finished a show with a completed history and completed a show with books half-finished. What a joke.

[@kennethknoppik5408]

Very f******well said ,thank you very much.

[@theLetterDoubleYou]

@@yc4118 except they excluded a bunch of really important characters like Decimus Junius Brutus, Titus Libienus, Aulus Hirtius and Gaius Vibius Pansa, which changed the course of the story quite a bit.

[@thomasvrielink299]

@@theLetterDoubleYou Decimus would've been great for his betrayal. I'd argue the others you mention don't have enough of a narrative to warrant more than the name-drop they got. If Rome had a season before season 1 covering the Gallic wars, having Labienus be Caesar's loyal, competent second that turns against him when he marches on Rome would've been impactful. But with Caesar crossing the Rubicon at the end of episode 2 I don't think there's enough time to establish him as a character and feel the impact of Caesar losing him. After that his biggest role is in the battles that Rome didn't have the budget to show, so there's not much left for him to do. Maybe I just don't know enough about Roman history to comment on them, but all I know Hirtius and Pansa for is dying in battle against Antony, leaving Octavian as the sole surviving commander taking all the glory, exactly what they did in the show. I'd be happy to learn how they were important before their demise.

[@theLetterDoubleYou]

@@thomasvrielink299 Labienus would have been a good narrative tool to show that Metellus Scipio was the leader of the optimates, not Cato as the series depicts. His continued slighting despite being their most talented commander behind Pompey would have highlighted how terrible the faction managed things after Pompey died. Hirtius would have been a good narrative tool to show how successful Cicero was at turning Caesarians toward the optimate cause, that's how he became consul to die at mutina in the first place. I suppose they only needed Hirtius or Pansa not both but still, sticking to the history would have made many characters stand out more than they did.

[@cezarysudol]

And finish of Rome still beats the hell out of the finish of GOT. That's writing.

[@1509Freeze]

Shame upon the house of HBO for canceling this show. SHAME!

[@JoeBlackbeard]

Shame on HBO for such barberty

[@kenricnarbrough8191]

SHAME

[@amcopeland1310]

SHAME!

[@williampoole1742]

It was a SHOW OF HBO!!! A show... of HBO...

[@virgilxavier1]

@@1509Freeze a true Roman show for true romans

[@Mr_Mgun]

horrible decision by HBO.

[@adamedwards1937]

I think it is begging for a reboot. Considering how overstretched Amazon got with Rings of Power etc. This would be a more surefooted option.

[@ThePatrioticTurtle]

@@adamedwards1937it would never be made as good again

[@mr.crowgamer6250]

@@adamedwards1937no please don’t reboot it

[@MikeNoyb]

@@adamedwards1937 Noooooo! It would be so DEI and boring and silly. Disney productions on steroids, full of people holding bottles of beer for you to see the labels, smoking cigarettes and completely vapid.

[@beo456]

Even though I am a fan of Rome, the blatant corruption and extortion in Italy are truly disgusting and insufferable. I now fully support HBO executives' decision to cancel the show. I also doubt the fire was an accident-it was probably an attempt to milk more money with another rebuild.

[@chrisohh5612]

I can watch Rome over and over again. Sometimes, I just put on a random episode and watch it...

[@FreshCutFrenchFries]

Same! Favorite show ever. I consistently cone back to clips. Acting levels are off the charts

[@margaretcook-ellis4941]

Same :) I know so many lines from Rome by heart.

[@rvalle11]

I am so serious.... what is up with that? I can do it over and over and over again. and my first obession with the show came when I was a 12 year old boy. It is just so funny to me how this show actually really did impact me. Art is so crazy to me. This was so much more than a show and im not being crazy about it, i jsut really reflect on how it really did craft interests, thought processes, and reflection. Any episode I can just watch and talk about all night.

[@margaretcook-ellis4941]

@@rvalle11 Interesting how it affected you at such a young age! To think I was a 45 year old woman when it came out; TBH when I first set eyes on James Purefoy as Antony🥰🥰🥰; THAT is what pulled me in hook, line and sinker.

[@mutteringmale]

I just turned a friend o mine onto it and we spent 5 Saturdays watching it from front to back, he was amazed! He trusts me, because a few years ago I DL'd every epi of GOT and he was so entranced we spent a month of Saturday AND Sundays watching until our eyes crossed.

[@littlejimmyyouman7201]

Pullo was my favorite. The idea of watching rank and file soldiers was great.

[@Pemmont107]

Thirteeeeeeen!

[@jl696]

Yes, nearly all of Roman history, and almost all other histories, are written from the perspective of the rich and powerful. So little history is known about the legionnaires who did all the fighting and dying.

[@j.b.macadam6516]

Agreed!

[@notsocrates9529]

I am sad remembering that he died.

[@HFFCANADA]

​@@notsocrates9529he didn't tho, he lives in the end... Great show either way tho

[@andrewall3193]

Just stopped by to say this was the best thing HBO has ever made.. ever

[@klaudioabazi4478]

Unfortunately Rome came at a time when HBO was not prepared to go to the finish line. But they learned their lesson as they went full on board with Game of Thrones. It's not an exaggeration to say that without Rome we would not have Game of Thrones.

[@LittleWarsTV]

Very true. And the team behind GoT has said as much too

[@MikeNoyb]

Yah, but they kept making that boring show Sopranos for yawning season after season.

[@klaudioabazi4478]

@@MikeNoyb Sopranos was not the same scale as Rome. And nobody was giving them headaches about it. Rome was a different new gamble for HBO. They panicked and cancelled it too soon. Once they saw their mistake, they went full on in their next big show,. GOT.

[@marcobelli6856]

@@MikeNoybBecause sopranos didn’t cost nearly as much and people like it (I personally find it mid but online people praise it and breaking bad like they are the 2 best shows ever)

[@blamesaw]

Came here to say this. Rome walked so game of thrones could run. People who were surprised by game of thrones never saw Rome

[@Crossword131]

Rewatch-ability is another attribute overlooked. I love Rome _and_ The Wire. But Rome is infinitely rewatchable.

[@cezarysudol]

Compare this to re-watchability of Game of Thrones ha ha.

[@Crossword131]

@@cezarysudolCompletely agree. Why didn't GOT hire Bruno Heller to tie up the last couple seasons? At least there would have been character resolution and sOmE completion of the story! Game of Thrones has the rewatch-ability of a rotten banana.

[@bjornjagerlund3793]

Yes, I’ve watched it three times, always discovering new things each time.

[@vietrounder]

@@Crossword131 GOT 1-4 was a masterpiece. It went down hill from there and fast. I think the reason they kept D&D was because they were contracted in; which means you would need to buy them out. Keep in mind, that they did a fabulous job up to season 4. I don't think anyone expected how fast they fell after the source material ran out.

[@Crossword131]

@@vietrounder Wouldn't you have been happier if HBO or D&D brought in a dab hand at wrapping $#!t up rather than the mess we were left with? I agree with you. I even don't fully hate season 5, but at least Heller would've given a reach around.

[@-few-fernando11]

A 5 seasons DVD set would have been a MUST HAVE

[@jamesnguyen7069]

would teach too many people... that is what theyre against.

[@deagor4578]

@@jamesnguyen7069 About the j's?

[@doublerlifeRR]

​@@deagor4578Exactly

[@mutteringmale]

DVD. How quaint. Can't afford Bluray? 🤩

[@-few-fernando11]

@@mutteringmale not sure Bluray was a thing yet back then

[@Sharkman1963]

RIP, Ray Stevenson. He was so great as Titus Pullo. Legendary performance by an actor now gone too soon.

[@Gwaithmir]

I was shocked at the news of his death. He was still a relatively young man (58). No specific cause of his death was ever reported, although it was known that he suffered from various heart issues.

[@Sharkman1963]

@Gwaithmir Ya, his partner, Elisabetta Carracia, has said that his death was a surprise, but that it was due to "continuing heart problems." Such a great loss. Would have loved to see him as Titus Pullo for all 5 seasons of Rome as outlined in this excellent video.

[@grandmufftwerkin9037]

XIII!!!!!

[@OneofInfinity.]

@@grandmufftwerkin9037 XIII!

[@williamhoadley]

I recently rewatched "I, Claudius," and still found it a great mini series.

[@harbl99]

"Is there anyone in Rome who has NOT slept with my daughter?!" -- Augustus, _magna colepium_

[@therealbaglady]

This! We're going to rewatch I, Claudius soon too!

[@chamone28]

It's a masterpiece, I wish more people knew about it, not a single weak episode, every actor is just amazing!

[@brontewcat]

My favourite television about Rome

[@karoltakisobie6638]

Very underrated series. Derek Jacobi is excellent there.

[@Arniegeddon2006]

Britain didn't become part of the Roman Empire until the reign of Claudius( 41AD - 54AD). So the Scotish plot point makes no sense whatsoever.

[@annwilliams6438]

Julius did go to Britain, but pretty much on a flying visit. Just enough incursions for the natives to get to know about the Romans.

[@Cdr_Mansfield_Cumming]

@@annwilliams6438Julius made it as far north as what is the modern town of Bedford before turning around and left.

[@loneprimate]

​@@annwilliams6438Yeah, he's got a point. If the idea was that Pulo

[@adventussaxonum448]

Not only was Britannia not a Roman province until well after 43AD; the Romans didn't make the area, later known as Scotland, part of their empire at all.

[@patrickpilkington6241]

Julius Caesar twice invaded Britannia. I agree the Scot Plot makes zero sense though.

[@1oriss]

Britannia was not part of the Empire at the time of Octavian. It fell to Claudius to start the conquest of Britannia.

[@scottpankonin1068]

Was going to make thus exact point. Rome did not have a border with the Scots during Augustus' time

[@Huscarle09]

Not to mention Scotland didn't exist as such in the iron age.

[@Roberthomas]

Didn’t matter. “Hollywood” didn’t want to make a story exulting Germans.

[@MP-uw1qc]

@@Huscarle09The Irish Scots did not cross to “Scotland” for quite some time after the end of the Western Empire.

[@davidsaville5239]

But Julius Caesar led 2 invasions of Britain!!

[@wombat9226]

“HE WAS A CONSUL OF ROME!” is still shouted throughout my household between my roommates and I sporadically 😂 Great video Greg! Honestly I think you nailed it with your visions for the last few seasons. There is so much rich history to dig up there, and as you eluded to the connections between the characters and events are right there. I’m glad there are still so many fans of this amazing (and holy hell 20 year old) show!

[@jeffmorin5867]

I'm for this like Mitch Hedberg was for frilly little tooth picks in the club sandwhich club.

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

*_SHAME. Shame on the House of Ptolemy._*

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

Is there any other thing to shout at one's roommates, you wretched woman?

[@DanielMcGillis-f3w]

Me at Thanksgiving dinner when the conversation turns towards politics. “HE WAS A CONSUL OF ROME!” My family looks at me in confusion. My wife smiles behind her hand and stifles a laugh.

[@jamesshrum6748]

It would have been satisfying to see Vorenus parish as a General on the field in Teutoburg mirroring Pullo’s arena scene in “The spoils” episode. Basically, he has shared command or is in command of the thirteenth. He’s overwhelmed, but still fights to the death. The scene is Pullo reading field reports to Augustus as it pans to the actual battle while Pullo narrates. Pullo pausing as he reaches Vorenus’ last words “Thirteen!”. This would allow Augustus to hail Vorenus as a hero and slandering Varus.

[@MikeNoyb]

And he says "Give me back my Vorenus!".

[@TesterAnimal1]

@@MikeNoybPullo would not be literate.

[@yaizudamashii]

Vorenus would be too old in 9AD to be serving if he were even alive, as he was already a centurion in Gaul.

[@hydromancer4916]

teutoburg is so far ahead of the story being told it might as well be another show

[@marcusaetius9309]

That would have been an excellent follow up!👍🏻

[@crypwalk7753]

Rome and Deadwood getting cancelled were among the greatest tragedies that have befallen humanity

[@lynettesmith6971]

@@crypwalk7753 loved them both, had to have a hard head for Swearagen’s (don’t know if I spelt that right), language, probably the worst language of any tv show, but I loved it xxxxx

[@TXetc]

Love Deadwood, at least we got a movie long after to kind of wrap the story up. The actual history of Deadwood and it’s characters are my head canon.

[@scottanderson5581]

HBO Rome is one of my top three shows of all time, especially season 1. Some of the best dialogue ever written.

[@Thegates477]

If Rome is not your number one, what is your number one and two? Only mulit-season show that comes even remotely close to Rome for me is The Tudors. Band of Brothers is great but not multi-season

[@TaRAAASHBAGS]

"Originally proposed to Ridley Scott" Disaster averted

[@XRioteerXBoyX]

First gladiator was fantastic, but I suppose you could say it was a vision that was started by Ridley Scott but then expanded by cast and crew during the making of the movie.

[@TaRAAASHBAGS]

@@XRioteerXBoyX almost nothing historical about it. You could have made it a fantasy story and it would have been minimally changed.

[@XRioteerXBoyX]

@@TaRAAASHBAGS To me, the first Gladiator movie was not trying to portray History 100% but instead trying to captivate audiences by having them feel the history of the time through a focused lens that is shared from the main character. Through that route, it managed to bring the feeling of history better than what a documentary of the true history could.

[@TaRAAASHBAGS]

@@XRioteerXBoyX how do you feel history by presenting it inaccurately?

[@XRioteerXBoyX]

@@TaRAAASHBAGS By taking it as a movie, where artistic license is usually used to make a movie. If I wanted history to be shown exactly as what has been documented, then I'd prefer a historical documentary with narration by experts that are well versed in the events of the time period that a documentary is discussing.

[@Desertfoxrommel41]

After (during) this show, I always end up back on Rome Total War.

[@HFFCANADA]

💯 agree, it's almost required to have it playing in the background. That or The history of Rome podcast by Mike Duncan. Both make fantastic background music for conquering the barbarians 😂😂😂

[@martinportelance138]

Damn I can relate...

[@eddarby469]

I only wish I could hear the HBO Rome theme in the music while I played Rome TW.

[@willdiaz6050]

Excellent work. It brings to mind a favorite saying: “Of all sad words of tongue or pen, saddest of all ‘what might have been’ “.

[@dashsocur]

At least they did them the courtesy of giving them a full season to wrap things up. It's always annoying when execs cancel a show last-minute and the audience is left hanging on a cliff-hanger.

[@LittleWarsTV]

Agreed. It was good of HBO to tell them and good of Heller to rewrite the season to give the show some closure. Wish we had more, but they did well under the circumstances of a pending cancellation

[@stevenicholas5651]

Carnivale was just as bad! Closed on the 2nd season on lots of unfinished storylines!

[@terrylandess6072]

First question to any series pitch - How does it end? If they don't give a straight answer immediately - show them the door.

[@newkkl]

I hate it. The studio screwed up Black Sails, too, so much potential for Civil War precursor but they had people standing around in grassy fields pontificating endlessly, then they scoot Flint off to an asylum as an afterthought. So dumb.

[@Kededian]

I watched this series like 20 times. Now after seeing this video i have to watch it again.

[@jamesnguyen7069]

[@SpringfieldFatts]

I watched season 1 of The Terror recently and it was cool seeing the actors who played Caesar & Brutus again. They even had him in centurion outfit during the carnival which I took as a nod to this show.

[@JRRob3wn]

Was that good, never got around to watching it…

[@SpringfieldFatts]

@@JRRob3wn If you can accept the supernatural elements of it yeah, it's really good. Season 2. . . not so much.

[@Jaded_Jester]

@@JRRob3wn Season 1 is definitely worth a try.

[@Jaded_Jester]

I also got a kick out of seeing the two of them together again.

[@teddyjackson1902]

@@JRRob3wnit’s excellent.

[@eddiecharles6457]

I can't forget the opening battle in this series. It was the first time I saw the Roman soldiers shuffling within the phalanx to bring up rested soldiers from the rear and I can't recall any show since then depicting it with such detail.

[@mutteringmale]

Reality was like I was there. Then there is new American Primeval, where you cheer every actor's death and laugh and snear all the way through this pile of excrement. What a contrast.

[@maurosantellan3810]

Manipulus not phalanx

[@xjuliussx]

such a sad moment when i've 15 years ago watched the last episode :( i had tears in my eyes, over time i become attached by the actors which is crazy happening to me. Had that sad feeling when a friend is departure from you and goes in a long trip.

[@DamoBloggs]

Good grief - 20 years? I'm STILL rewatching this on a regular basis! Easily one of the best shows ever produced. Thank you for making this. It was very intriguing, informative and a little heartbreaking. Kudos!

[@dailyqwikbytes]

And now it's too late. RIP Ray (Titus Pullo)Stevenson.

[@SenorTucano]

Shouldn’t have taken the jab

[@Nekoyama69]

Season 3 could have also entailed Antony's failed invasion of Parthia and Octavian's dealing with Sextus Pompy in Sicily. As you said, there were a lot of missed opportunities.

[@thomasvrielink299]

They had already dropped the "Neptune's scourge" nickname for Quintus (clearly renamed to not have "Sex" as part of his name) back in season 1, so he was set up to fulfil that role in season 3 instead of getting unceremoniously killed off by Antony at the start of season 2.

[@cezarysudol]

Yeah, and end with season 4 with Accium and death of Mark Anthony and Cleopatra. And Augustus claiming the title of The Last Man Standing. As for Pullo and Virinus, they really could have lived hapilly ever after, or get some sort of personnal aproximation of that. I agree that that scottish part would have been completly unfit for the show, but I think that German barbarians massacring Roman legions deep in nothern forest would have no place in the show eaither. The event was way too dark and per itself meant little. The Empire survived and ruled the world for next 450 years. I think ending on high note, with massive tryumph of last antagonist, Octavian would make for much better ending to the story that after all, revolved around power struggele started by Julius Cezar.

[@GroundWorker34]

Rome was a high-quality master piece. I own the box set still and never get bored watching it. HBO made a huge mistake by not following all seasons through to the end.

[@Carl-MGR]

Agreed with you on many points, Greg, though it is extremely funny that in your montage you landed on Cleopatra for "costumes" at the beginning. The "Egyptian" outfits in the show are among the worst and least historically-plausible of any that appear on the show. They have more to do with Liz Taylor and America's 'king tut' craze than any depiction of Hellenistic Egypt.

[@mutteringmale]

I'm waiting for a series on her. One of the most intelligent women of all time. And hope they don't go woke and get Whoopi Goldberg or similar to play her. Reality would be Ann Joy Taylor casting.

[@mrbeast85]

20:08 Apparently sales of Blu-ray disks are on the rise again after a long decline. As many streaming services have got into the habit of purging swathes of their back catalogue, audiences are instead investing in physical media, in case they come to watch their favourite show one day and find its gone. Also with many developed countries suffering a cost of living crisis I think people are feeling that being subscribed to several streaming services, just to watch a few shows is not cost effective, and instead they are buying the boxset of a show instead of maintaining a Netflix account or whatever.

[@dawnfire82]

If you don't possess it, you don't own it. Everything you ever bought on iTunes, Amazon Prime, or whatever is nothing more than an unmitigated lightning strike or malicious mouse click away from permanent loss.

[@board-qu9iu]

@@dawnfire82yeah I mean if Steam ever did become bankrupt and you post all your purchases, that would result in a second video game crash easily. It’s why some just prefer to have it physical

[@HungryLoki]

I went back to pirating the moment I realized no streaming service was ever going to have all the TV shows ever produced on them, be it due to licensing issues or whatever. The moment major production companies all started launching their own streaming services, restricting their shows to their service, I knew I made the only rational choice.

[@Byronic19134]

@@dawnfire82This isn’t true for iTunes as you can and should be downloading things and saving them offline anyway. You can do that on all these streaming sites if you’re willing to pay for the memory it takes to store it all.

[@cezarysudol]

WOKE-washing of old classics had also quite an impact on growing distrust of public, who prefer to own their own phisical copies safaly in their possession, as oppsed to trusting politically corret, soulless corporations with safekieeping of the movies from the past.

[@VarangianVigilante]

Still my favourite series of all times. Hot Take: I am happy that we only got two seasons. Perfectly wrapped up the story and very pleasant to re-watch.

[@MrFrateTrane]

John Milius Directed and co-wrote Conan the Barbarian! I was a cheerleader for this show at the time of broadcast and never understood why it was cancelled. Thanks for the detective work constructing this "story".

[@JRRob3wn]

Milius had many produced scripts that really should have been made. I’ll never understand why King Conan Crown of Iron never got off the ground.

[@peterhoulihan9766]

Thank you. I always wondered why season 2 was so rushed. Never knew the backstory. Your reconstruction of the 5 season plot sounds amazing.

[@generalsmite7167]

Herod also appeared in season 2 bribing Antony and I also thought it just was a cool detail to include him but apparently it was a future plot point.

[@LittleWarsTV]

Yes, seeing Herod pop up in season 2 is one of those details you now appreciate as set up for what they intended to do

[@jello_cudgel9213]

Maybe one day HBO will make a big multi year epic that doesn’t end in fiasco

[@jimjohnson6944]

But it is not this day.

[@cezarysudol]

You'd need diffrent kind of executives, with vision and courage to defend it. They don't make them like that. Those who get to top, where decisions are made are only skilled in backroom backstabbing, boardroom politicking and counting bonus money.

[@firingallcylinders2949]

The problem is writing now is such a disaster it would be ruined somehow. I would have 0 faith in a modern day historical show like this.

[@fedfan3079]

Dune prophecy season 1 was very good. Travis Fimmel (Vikings) was amazing in it.

[@mutteringmale]

@@fedfan3079 The second season is bad. So woke. I can't watch stuff by progressive trying to push their dei agenda.

[@Gozokukolat]

'Rome' 22 episodes cost $175M for content that brought people to your network. 'The Acolyte' 8 episodes cost $180M for content that scared people off your network.

[@chrisrhodes2]

The Acolyte was better than almost every other Star Wars show on Disney. Had some episodes I didn't care for but a Star Wars show with an actual plot and intrigue is unheard of. Andor is the only one better imo

[@bollockjohnson6156]

@@chrisrhodes2 lol no

[@internetgas2020]

@@chrisrhodes2 The only part of that statement I would agree with is that Andor was better

[@JRRob3wn]

@@chrisrhodes2How embarrassing.

[@F_Yale]

@@chrisrhodes2 You're a loser.

[@dahlia_day]

Fantastic video. People don't talk about Rome enough. It's always been one of my favorites, and its cancellation was criminal. I've always wondered where the show would've gone. I think your outline for seasons 3-5 is very plausible and would've made for amazing television.

[@mutteringmale]

The don't talk about Rome because the jealous world hates western civilization and coupled with the wokies and fake news and horrible schools we have, they are busy destroying the greatest civilization this world has ever seen, Western Civilization. I

[@therealCellblock1138]

Showing Pullo's fate at the very start of the series would have completely destroyed any sense of danger to his character. They made the right call there.

[@mellusk9194]

I absolutely loved this series, historical inaccuracies and all. I happened to buy my first HDTV just in time for the second season to come out, and it was well worth it. RIP Ray Stevens.

[@tricivenola8164]

After Six Feet Under, I was a raving fan of HBO. But after they pulled the plug on Rome, I never paid for HBO or any of its shows. Morons, cancelled Deadwood too. This is a fantastic video. I've just subscribed. Thank you for all this information, and for celebrating 'Rome" which remains the truest look at a vanished civilization that still affects us all. Its characters are so vivid that, to this day, I walk around the Byzantine ruins in Istanbul with Titus Pullo & Lucius Vorenus at my elbow, commenting on a culture they never saw. And looking down into the Roman houses at Ephesus, I can hear Atia.

[@mutteringmale]

I and my parents pulled the plug when they kept releasing Sopranos a year or two years in between series, and also stopping them halfway through the year and then having the rest months later. I hate being manipulated and so I missed the last two seasons....small loss.

[@alanaltimont9007]

Domina is a compelling dramatization of much of the in-Rome action you speculate about for season 4. Did a good job of replicating the look of Rome.

[@lyledeyounges1276]

After all these years I still haven’t gotten over that decision… but thank god this project wasn’t given to Ridley Scott.

[@dirkb9788]

HBO made a huge mistake cutting Rome. But also with Carnivale. And the end of OZ and Game of Thrones. It seems like HBO just doesn't know how to give a series a satisfying ending.

[@TXetc]

Idk how you got through Oz. I was 2-3 seasons in and NOTHING good ever happens. Just when you think a character is having a good thing happen to them they get dragged back down lol.

[@marcusaureliusantoninusaug2161]

Great video, great content! Rome is my favourite series too and I was soooo sad when it was cancelled back in 2005/06 and still feel sad almost 20 years later when thinking about it! Your research clarified a lot of things and has answered a few of my questions. Btw, the sound quality of that podcast is horrible, sounds like it's from 2001 rather than 2021 :)

[@Winaska]

I love this entire video. However I'll bring up one point about the proposed 5th season you lay out: Vorenus and Pullo would be old men by AD9 and the battle of tueteburg. Not fighting material anymore. Perhaps they could be advisers...? But they aren't swinging swords in the front line anymore by then. But the connection you made with P. Quinctilius Varus was soemthing I did not know and it floored me how history can provide such seamless story telling (ofc)

[@kevinnorwood8782]

While I am terribly disappointed with HBO's decision to cancel Rome, I actually completely understand WHY they cancelled it. HBO had never made ANY show with a budget as huge as Rome's was, so they ended up being underprepared for how much it was going to cost them. This show taught them valuable lessons on just what "big budget project" actually means, and without HBO learning those lessons, I think it's pretty safe to say that Game Of Thrones would never have happened at all.

[@asorlokirunarsson9864]

Your outline is perfect. A dramatic and powerful final two seasons woven into both history and the fictional characters' arcs across the entire series

[@seniorbob2180]

Maybe one day in the future they will give us a 5 season Rome. RIP Pullo. THIRTEEN!!!! THIRTEEN!!!!

[@TXetc]

13 🫡

[@gvdeutekom]

This video shows, again, what an incredible talented man Greg Wagman is. His knowledge of the history, in combination with the ability of storytelling and imagination to work this unfinished series of Rome to an absolute climax can only be admired.

[@XRioteerXBoyX]

I'd love to have a remake of the show, but to include earlier details of the rise of Gaius Julius Caesar, the early wars that pompey was involved in, and the rise and fall of Licinius Crassus. This would include events such as the wars of Caesar in Gaul against the many tribes there, the wars that Pompey were involved in within Spain, and the politicking that Crassus had to do to get himself into a position of military command when he had to put down the slave rebellion of Spartacus. The show skipped over many interesting bits of history that would have only added to the grandeur that would later on develop for the careers of these three prominent politician/military commanders.

[@PeaceDragon9]

Try reading the GREAT MEN by COLLEEN McCullough. AMAZING

[@Isuukuu]

Recently watched Season 6 of Vikings for the first time ever since taking an extremely long break from it and when I saw Ray Stevenson played a key character that season I nearly started to cry. My absolute favourite actor of all time. Can't believe he's been dead for a year.

[@TXetc]

After Ragnar I couldn’t keep interest in Vikings so I missed that. Ray was great in Dexter as well.

[@aunch3]

This is fascinating video about my favorite show of all time. It’s great to come back after all these years and learn about this 👍

[@MinorityRespecter88]

Video starts at 21:55

[@nicholasege5970]

So basically Rome got cancelled because Romans were still acting like Romans.

[@simonkevnorris]

I have an Italian friend and she told me about the 'black jobs'. These can best be described as a desk in an office where someone is paid to work but they are never there!

[@rejoicemusicnet]

Absolutely brilliant concept for the full five seasons of Rome. Bravo! Ending with the Battle of Teutoburg forest would have been stunning.

[@gaslightstudiosrebooted3432]

TBF, it's not an exaggeration to say that Passion of the Christ was a small project. It's budget was tiny--by comparison to most period flicks. But it did do a lot to advance the cause of usage of period language in period films and tv shows. This is something Michael Hirst later used in Vikings, basically reviving old French.

[@Hansel_0]

I feel like the guy who played Tywin Lannister in got would be perfect for a older Octavian

[@MrLigonater]

That’s amazing! The shows set was so accurate to the original city it was even mostly destroyed by fire!

[@johnkon2810]

This was such a great show. I still watch it every few years. This was a good watch, thank you!

[@nicobruin8618]

Ceasarion in Scotland and Pullo in Brittania? That would've made no sense historically. Britain is not part of the Roman world at this point, it is conquered under Claudius over 70 years after the battle of Actium.

[@JS-wp4gs]

Not to mention at no point in history did the romans ever get anywhere near scotland

[@olorin3815]

@@JS-wp4gswell im pretty sure they did invade scotland and held small parts of modern scotland for up to like 70 years and im sure they might have had some raids going deepwr into it, it just enever rly worked out too well for them

[@oldrabbit47]

Great job, thank you so much! Was into my annual rewatch of "Rome" when this popped up, and your work answers so many questions. Two details that only sticklers like me and Cicero would be bothered with - the Italian Broadcaster is 'RAI' pronounced "rye". And maybe look at the first title card for Cinecitta again. Hail the Thirteenth!

[@markcole5108]

I was also enjoying the new series Domina that tells the story of Imperial Rome from Augustus’ wife, Livy’s view. Unfortunately, it was also cancelled only after a couple of seasons.

[@magister.mortran]

I didn't know it is cancelled. Are you sure? The second season just ended a few weeks ago. I thought they will show season 3 next year. Anyway it was a worthy continuation of the series Rome. It is very similar in spirit and has many of the characters from the 20 years older series in it. Only the costumes seem not to be as historically accurate. They look like from a much later era or from the Eastern provinces. Romans used to dress more simple, like it was correctly shown in the "Rome" series.

[@AlfredoArcangeli]

They're canceled Domina also? WTF.

[@AngelaGyetvan1]

Love it. Thank you. Really wish we had more seasons of Rome.

[@gonatas1]

I like your series better than the one they were planning, but there something like 60+ years between Caesar in Gaul and the Teutoberg Forest. Pullo and Verenus would be pushing 90….

[@LittleWarsTV]

Pullo supposedly died at 88, so that’s not too far off the mark! By Hollywood standards that’s quite good!

[@magister.mortran]

@@LittleWarsTV If Ray Stevenson was still alive, they could have started production in 20 years from now, and he would have had the right age saving them the makeup.

[@olorin3815]

@@LittleWarsTVthere is no way 80 something year old guy is going anywhere with the army, even today traveling for very old people isnt very comfortable imagine a 88 yr old traveling to germany on probably crappy roads in roman times he would probably be dead before he got to the battle

[@newkkl]

Great video, thanks for explaining this, I never knew why the best show around was cancelled. RIP Ray Stevenson. And yes, your story arc is a great suggestion-would have made for an incredible show.

[@ontrous]

When people talk about "Small screen" triumphs like Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad or The Sopranos. I chime in with "Rome" and I have yet to find anyone who doesnt agree with me or ask "why was it only 2 seasons?" It was epic cultural reference, when Ray Stevenson passed away #Thirteen was trending on twitter. In homage to a very prominent scene in the show about brotherhood and bond in soldiers forged in combat. what a show....

[@PeaceDragon9]

Thank you for sharing that story.✌️

[@johndmitrikozak2441]

It was expensive for the greedy CEO's to continue hiring reenactors. This is the reason this show is so good!

[@harbl99]

Gee, that whole 'Octavian's family drama' thing sounds like it would make a really great tv show. You could have his eccentric nephew Claudius -- who was a historian before he was made emperor in a palace coup -- act as narrator and viewpoint character. I'm just amazed that no one's ever done that.

[@magister.mortran]

I, Claudius was good and I watched it fascinated as a child, but there is a newer and better version. The series is called "Domina" and has just finished the second season. It continues where Rome ended. (Only the first few episodes summarize the events of the series "Rome" leading to Augustus' rise to power) It's a significantly more expensive production than "I, Claudius", but at least as good an closer to the spirit of the series "Rome" in regard to violence, sex and conpiracies.

[@deniaridley]

Something narrated from the viewpoint of Claudius, whom everyone underestimated, would be genius.

[@mrhumble2937]

​@@magister.mortran on what streaming service?

[@KokoBoomba]

Brilliant! This was my all-time favorite TV show for many years (until The Expanse came out) and I always wondered why it was cut short. Thank you so much for bringing me some closure on its fate. And RIP Ray Stevenson, you are already dearly missed.

[@LittleWarsTV]

Absolutely loved The Expanse. Fantastic show.

[@lemmor6791civ]

HBO learnt his lessons after the Rome production, and put it in use when developing Game of Thrones, even when the last 2 season were rush as well...

[@MikeNoyb]

Last season of GOT was like last season of Sopranos. Written by grade school illiterates on Ritalin.

[@I_Of_Providence]

@@MikeNoyb more like the last 3-4 seasons. once they strayed from the source material and ended up running out of it, it turned into a cartoon.

[@herbertschulz4313]

The last two seasons were rushed by the show runners. The hbo higher ups wanted 10 seasons with 10 episodes each, qfter George Martin said there would be enough material for that.

[@jamesnguyen7069]

@@MikeNoyb thats the point, were the tik tok generation

[@MikeNoyb]

@@I_Of_Providence Just shows you how bad the writers at HBO are.

[@tomhanhart5921]

Thank you so much for this fantastic feature. Especially the outlook on the possible connections to the events in Judea and in the Teutoburg Forest gave the idea of what could have been massively epic proportions. It is a great pity that this vision could not be realised. But now I feel highly motivated to watch the series again. Great.

[@FelixstoweFoamForge]

I used to have a screenshot of Polly Walker getting out of the bath in her first scene from season one, as my desktop background. Loved the series.

[@LittleWarsTV]

Haha and I’m quite sure you weren’t the only young man to have done so.

[@johndaarteest]

Oh good Lord, get a grip man.

[@FelixstoweFoamForge]

@@johndaarteest Shan't. Attia of the Julii was just way too hot. I am completely unrepentant!

[@02Machiavelli]

lmao

[@PeaceDragon9]

​@FelixstoweFoamForge I'm a woman, and I get it.✌️

[@aaronsanderson7650]

Yes. Great analysis. I love the idea of Pullo wanting to write an “Anti-Livy”, giving him an end to mirror Cicero.

[@theandf]

HBO's Rome was such a great show. Not flawless, but I loved almost every minute of it. I'm not sad it ended though, it would have probably been diluted into a disappointing thing by the end (haven't finished watching this video yet, we'll see if I guessed right!)

[@Concavenator128]

Given that so many interesting things happen after every possible stopping point, I have this vision of a "Rome" that just keeps going and going. We're now in season 37 and Constantine shows up.

[@JohnSmith-dq7sr]

Cancelling rome wasnt a humiliating mistake, rather it was a rare species of victory.

[@JoeBlackbeard]

😂, leave the show, you run mad

[@mariussielcken]

You have lost RRROOOMMEEE!!’

[@jorklind]

You’ll find that everything I’ve done has been perfectly correct

[@terrylandess6072]

Give me your knife. This bread is stubborn....

[@dfoleyusa]

I’m a bigger fan of Deadwood but it’s close Rome is right up there for me - love both shows. This is a fascinating history of what happened and what could have been. Nice work my friend.

[@matthewsmith5104]

As much as I love Rome, I think the series actually started too late, chronologically. If you had many seasons to work with, I think a better starting point for a series would be around 60BC and covering the political intrigue leading up to Ceasar's election to the Consulship (and Cato's interference therein) and his year in power in 59BC alongside Marcus Bibulus and all the shenanegans that followed. This would lay a lot more of the groundwork and context for why the Civil War happened 10 years later. Then you could follow that up with a season of parallel storylines, one following Ceasar's Gallic Wars, including the landings in England, and culminating with the showdown with Vercingetorix at Alesia. I'd make sure to include several key characters from the Gallic Wars like Mark Antony, Decimus Brutus and especially Titus Labienus who figures prominently in the later civil war. The other storyline would be the politics back in Rome, following people like Cicero, Metellius Scipio and Publius Clodius Pulcher and the rise of Pompey as the leader of the Optimate faction amid increasing violence in the city. If the First Triumverate is focused on in the first season, we could also include the death of Marcus Crassus at the battle of Carrhae. And from there you could more or less follow the chronology the show actually tried to follow. Other things I would make sure to include would be the Spanish campaign at the end of the civil war, the defeat and death of Titus Labienus at Munda, and Octavian attempting to make it to Spain in time to see action, getting shipwrecked, and still making it to Ceasar's camp. Ceasar was impressed with the boy for this effort and they travelled together back to Rome, and it's probably during this time that Ceasar sees Octavian's strategic mind and knack for politics and decides to quietly make him his heir. You could also include Sextus Pompey and the Sicilian campaign to allow the show to give a little more focus to Lepidus. I would still choose to end the show with Octavian being proclaimed Augustus and ushering in the Pax Romana. I agree that the proposed season 4 in Britannia makes zero sense, not least of which because... Britannia did not exist during the time of Augustus! The Romans wouldn't establish a permanent hold on Britain until the time of Claudius.

[@LittleWarsTV]

If they wanted to rewind the clock a bit, they could have started at the tail end of the Marius-Sulla action. Major drama there and of course it leads right into Caesar due to his connection with Marius. But I do understand why the show started where it did. For audiences who aren’t as steeped in the history, Season One gets you into the better known story of Caesar midstream.

[@nicobruin8618]

@@LittleWarsTV Or maybe it should've been 40 seasons starting with the Pyrhhic wars.

[@TonyAguilarFigure-atively]

​@@LittleWarsTV starting with Marius/Sulla would have been great.

[@matthewsmith5104]

@@LittleWarsTV Speaking of alternative Roman historical miniseries'/TV shows, I've always thought an interesting idea would be one following the Second Punic War, specifically following the parallel careers of Scipio Africanus and Hannibal. They're both present at Cannae which would happen early on, and then concluding with the final meeting at Zama, with a bunch of separate storylines between those two points.

[@bjorns131stpa2]

I mean, throw a dart at a chat of Roman history and BOOM political intrigue, back stabbing and subterfuge. It was almost like they were sitting around asking themselves how they can stay interesting two thousand years later. And that's not even getting into how much of a complete badass Cleopatra was in real life. You could have a whole show on her alone.

[@DMG380]

They did my boy Bruno dirty. I loved his other projects such as The Mentalist

[@LittleWarsTV]

He’s a very talented writer. Mad respect to Bruno.

[@J1MF3N]

A story I always wanted to know. Thank you friend for posting this. Epic content.

[@RealHexJoker]

mel gibson is still gold

[@RamiroQuesada-ze8wt]

I got the DVD set , watched the whole series, enjoyed it so very much

[@Taospark]

28:00 The original idea of having Caesarion becoming Arminius, who was historically a Roman hostage who learned their tactics, would make far more sense despite it focusing on the Germanic tribes. Not only does it give symmetry to the Battle of Teutoburg Forest but it also explains why Octavian would send Pullo to find and kill this alleged German chief who is skilled in Roman ways of war after the loss of three entire legions.

[@the5quirmingcoil]

Attia & Servilia's feud absolutely made the show. Their jockeying for power & favor is more interesting than Cesar vs the great man Pompey or Augustus vs Antony.

[@magister.mortran]

Then you will like the new series "Domina". The protagonist is Flavia Drusilla, the wife of Augustus. And she is in a similar feud with Octavia, the sister of Augustus. "Domina" has just finished the second season and looks like it's a continuation of "Rome" with a stronger emphasis on the palace power struggle and the women involved in it, hence the title.

[@trashfire9641]

Simp. No it wasn't.

[@jbatts834]

@@trashfire9641Probably a women since it was literally one of less interesting parts of the show.

[@xifel72]

Funny thing with the unbelivably rushed second seasons it towers in quality over the final seasons of GoT

[@jamesthomas4077]

We have historical accounts of Octavian's orders to kill bloodlines serving in England - in a shocking way as they are supposedly being called to visit Rome. So, grafting the Caesarion character into that real slaughter would be exciting. So that may mean Caesarian intended to have grown into an influential leader among the Roman Scottish garrison - not that he lived among the Picts.

[@JohnSmith-gb5vg]

So HBO executives suffer from no balls and lack of long term investment sense?

[@whoareyouyouareclearlylost323]

It was also so detailed, all the happenings, costumes and set was just spot one! PERFECTION

[@rc59191]

26:22 what did he mean by they didn't want to glorify Germans??

[@LittleWarsTV]

Read into that comment what you will I guess. Hollywood is a weird place.

[@BrandonQuezada-k2v]

Says a lot knowing who runs Hollywood lmao

[@dawnfire82]

@@BrandonQuezada-k2v Democrats.

[@board-qu9iu]

Yeah really confused. I thought he meant from an in-universe perspective, it doesn’t make sense but he doesn’t speak in such way

[@johndaarteest]

@@BrandonQuezada-k2v It's not Reich that you should make that comment.

[@benjaminsonzini4152]

What an excellent video! Just wanted to add, it was not only season 3 but also season 4 set in Egypt, acording to Heller, so maybe it was season 4 which would end on 31 BC. Supposedly, the plot points of both season 3 and 4 were telescoped in the rushed season 2.

[@georgikaradzhov6819]

HBO killed Rome and now everyone knows the history of Westeros better than the history of Europe.

[@FrankinDallas]

"Accidental blaze". Heard in New Jersey frequently.

[@theledzep]

Season 4 and 5 seemed to veer to much off into weird territory. The Rome/Judea/German plot line would have served much better. Varus who married Agrippa's daughter and later Octivia's granddaughter and then the revolt of the germanic tribes and the battle of Teutoburg forest. It would have been better if Pullo retired to Germany after given a plot of land and witness to Teutoburg.

[@LittleWarsTV]

Yes the whole Scotland thing is just…weird. That would have been a mistake I think

[@georgelagow2560]

@@LittleWarsTV Masada was a decent miniseries that covered the Jewish revolt in Judea with Peter O’Toole playing Flavius. Then the Barbarian miniseries from Netflix covering the Teitoburg Forest. Having seasons 4 and 5 follow those two story lines mixed with the drama from I Claudius would have taken the series to the next level.

[@Yikes3tp]

The comment about "not wanting to glorify germans" is a little wierd