The Modern Controls Tier List, Which Characters benefit the Most!? - Street Fighter 6

[@rooflemonger]

By overwhelming demand here is another video on Modern Controls! Decided to do it in the form of a tier list this time. So out of the gate let me tell you what this video is: The idea is, this is a video ranking characters based on their overall power in Modern Controls in a more competitive setting. If you are a true beginner, do not worry about anything this video has to say, pick modern and go and have fun. The idea I looked at is you can still do all the moves/motions etc, you are picking modern to game the system/gain an advantage, and with that mindset, who benefits the most out of it. Naturally this is all my opinion only, so no need to freak out if you don't agree with some of my decisions. That all said, enjoy!

[@evalangley3985]

Losing Luke st.HP is NOT what I am calling... "working"...

[@ektran4205]

ROOFLE DO A DYNAMIC CONTROLS TIER LIST

[@mreko108]

@@evalangley3985 Luke still has st.HP if you input auto+H, it's the first hit of the auto combo

[@Belbaisy]

Thank you , and plz more modern controls videos.

[@Sinstar1979]

M controls are nothing but a fight diaper. Period.

[@delirious323]

the fact that you show the full tierlist a minute into the video really exemplifies your mindset towards the educational content you put out. it always feels like you're giving your all in these, and it shows that you make these because you genuinely want to help grow the playerbase. thanks for what you do, roofle :)

[@rooflemonger]

yeah im not in the business of makin videos to scam maximum watch time out of people, would just feel gross. I know some people just wanna see the list and check out so thats why when I (rarely)do tier lists, I always put the list near the beginning.

[@clonerstive]

​@@rooflemongerthe confidence is UNREAL! (you helped me tons with Strive. Excited to watch all your sf6 videos now :D )

[@TheEphemeralEternity]

​@rooflemonger oozing just as much confidence as JP with none of the sleeze. Thanks for helpful and easy to watch homie; keep up the great work. :)

[@popzvegas88]

totally echo this comment

[@Iratedragon4175]

LOL😭

[@bunbunkitten]

Modern's auto-combos often don't finish if they get blocked. So having useful auto-combos for just throwing out there is a lot more meaningful than you'd expect. Modern does let charge characters maintain a down-charge while being able to do the standing normals that are behind the Assist button. Unlikely to be meaningful, but I figured I'd mention that.

[@therealskylockvixen5885]

This is what I'm talking about. There's many examples of things you benefit from having assist combos. My biggest problem with classic controls is its so easy to drop your combos. Not to say those three are the only to use, but it helps me the most to have a light, medium, and heavy combo ready to react.

[@Pokemaniac88]

Thanks again for another great video! I've been playing Modern Lily since launch and I think she's an absolute beast. Been trying a bunch of other characters, which is the biggest strength of Modern for me; I can hop into a couple of matches with a characters, focus on their basics without having to learn combos yet. And if I like them, I can start focussing on that. It just makes that try-out phase so much more accessible.

[@MuSticksArcade]

I think a lot of people are sleeping on how useful walk-forward into instant fireball is in footsies. It means that at any given instant while you're moving back and forth playing with the range, fireball is always on the table, which can catch a lot of people off guard just outside contact range, which makes it easier to stifle them and find ways in.

[@stin18x]

I play Modern Blanka and just do the classic inputs for most specials. The main benefit of Modern on Blanka is to make anti-airing with Up Ball easier. Since you can just hold down (or down back) and then hit the special button, if you don't have enough charge, you will Electricity which sometimes manages to also anti-air, compared to accidentally jumping which can result in a huge punish. Also for ex-up ball on wake up you can just mash the special + auto buttons instead of having to time it correctly. Only thing you really lose as Modern Blanka is standing Medium Punch as a decent poke and the overhead headbutt move, since you can get standing heavy punch by using the auto-combo heavy. Also the first 3 hits of auto-combo heavy is a nice shortcut for Blanka's bnb punish combos. Also instant super is nice.

[@bunbunkitten]

Modern Blanka also loses crouching MP, which loses him some reach in neutral. That said, I really learned to love the Heavy auto-combo, yeah.

[@KywPT]

Yeah I'm platinum with Modern Blanka. The other great advantage is Auto hit confirm on light combo, that and it's super easy to go into level 3 from it too.

[@elzilcho222]

I think his greatest benefit is being able to mash od up ball from frame traps. You can catch people in between light punches

[@Tybis]

OD up ball has been a lifesaver using modern.

[@EnCroissant]

You lose overhead and cr.mp, two very good tools. You lose everything in the corner if you don’t have an overhead for mixes. As for aa's, st.hk and b.mk are incredibly good, as st.hk goes into some pretty damaging combos

[@yeetyeeterson1914]

Rooflemonger you’ve been a staple of the fgc for years. You might not realize it with 175k subs but there’s no doubt in my mind you’ve helped wayyyy more players become accustomed to fighting games. I don’t watch your tutorials much anymore as I’m at the point I can learn the characters mostly by myself, but you helped me so much when I was getting into fighting games. Your injustice 2 videos are quite literally the reason I learned to play fighting games so I’ll always stay subscribed. Thank you rooflemonger for everything

[@Kaninjäveln]

I am not Rooflemonger (obv), but good on you (not sarcastic)! I can attest as one of the recent newbies of fighting games and is now looking for guidances. So far, Rooflemonger provides with everything I need to begin learning SF6 and maybe further fighting games! GL/HF in your matches!

[@rooflemonger]

And with this video, the old consecutive video record is broken! I set that sometime during DBFZ season 3 which means I can finally take a day off. Now will that day off be tomorrow? Who knows I still got more work to do lol but if you don't see a video for a few days its because ill be sleeping all day more than likely. That said character wise Cammy and Zangief are next up, probably some MK1 content what with the stress test happening, and who knows what else to come

[@briangoulet948]

Appreciate it rooflemonger, kinda sucks that all this stuff is slammed together so you can't get to all of it/rest lol. Goenitz/boss has been a great(and infuriating) addition to KoF but it's so sandwiched between all the new stuff

[@rooflemonger]

@@briangoulet948 any other time i'd be all over goenitz, but right now unfortunately he kinda has to lose out :(

[@briangoulet948]

@@rooflemonger yeah no worries, you definitely should give the boss fight a try just for fun though cause he just cheats lmao

[@enaidiZ]

You're missing the fact that Modern Marisa gets access to faster Guard Stance in neutral, she can input it on average like 4-5f faster, which means you're getting to armor response to more things in neutral. On classic you'll likely get armor on frame 7-8f as opposed to frame 3 every time. You can react shut down certain neutral strats, like Lily condor (od guard stance beats all her windclad+OD stuff I believe) or Blanka ball or Cammy EX dive or Honda headbutt or slam. You can do the same on classic, just can't be as close to the opponent when you react and you maybe need to be buffering or really paying attention like you don't need to on Modern. She also can struggle with anti airs sometimes, and faster gladius and guard stance let her anti air better (nevermind the instant super). Her level 3 also has crazy range, meaning her reaction lvl 3 can clear fireballs from far.

[@Mario543212]

The rank 1 marisa player actually plays on modern.

[@Medsas]

no offense, but i dont think rooflemonger did enough research for this video... it seems like he lumped characters on very general reasons like charge = bad, dp = good, without properly testing every single character on modern and noting down individual things they might get or lose from modern... oh well 😢

[@solzenstein]

Marisa on modern seems a lot more viable, you don't really lose a lot her step kick is mostly punishable anyway and you get to keep most high dmg punish and sa combos with normal input so you don't lose any dmg

[@UltimateHansford]

I think modern Zangief is kinda wild. But, you need to be willing to manually input in certain situations. However, one button Level 3 is kinda busted. There are some busted option selects on opponents wake up thanks to modern. Also can drive rush up to opponent while inputting SPD manually…and hit the opponent with level 1 super on reaction if they jump. Some really tasty options for Gief.

[@rooflemonger]

Gief loses too many important buttons in modern to me is the thing, as I went over in that video. Lily on the flip, keeps every important button while still getting 1 button ex SPD, so she wins out over him big time.

[@cosmostupid123]

good point but Super 1 whiffs a lot so I'd use air spd instead anyway

[@chungboislim2061]

​@@rooflemonger What all does Zangief lose? I was playing my friend - winning 75% of the time with Cammy - then he found out about modern controls and switched to zangief started winning more than me. I would eat a super every time I jumped and he would get crazy 360 grabs that used to be considered incredibly technical.

[@ap_po]

@@chungboislim2061 alone that you can spd on reaction to whiffpunish things no while you are free to roam around, jump, dash etc without to think about buffering into it is better then some people realize. 4 spds and your opponent is death, you need the same amount with classic to do so.

[@koreyg8552]

@@chungboislim2061I’m a level 4 platinum gief player. He loses important pokes in neutral that you need tk whiff punish people so you can dash cancel i tk grab or combos, you don’t get any of his mk or HK. Yoh don’t get cr MK. All of these buttons are super important because he wins on pokes

[@Quirkee37]

I think one underrated aspect of modern is how much more manageable burnout becomes because of one button super There are a lot of looping blockstrings against burned out characters where the only real way to get out is to super And even if we assume you do the double qc frame perfect it still adds 6 frames to your reactions and 99% of the it won't be perfect Which means that something that's usually very reactable at like 25 frames suddenly becomes basically impossible to react to unless you buffer in the qc's and just press a button on reaction which works fine as a whiff pubish but if they're up close that will just get you hit by a bunch of other stuff

[@axsprime]

I like modern due to starting out playing fighting games with stuff like SC, DOA, Blazblue and Melty so any fighter with more than 4 buttons has always felt weird to play for me. I wish the drive stuff wasn't on separate buttons but it's using a sacrifice I'll live with. Using modern Cammy has been the most fun I've had with a Street Fighter ever falling in love with DNF.

[@kiplingordon]

Completely agree

[@kingbattyhand]

Personally coming from GGST the six button layout didn't take too long to learn but I also viewed modern as cringe even before I started playing the game

[@zz8az]

One thing about Jamie, its absurdly easy to accidentally do the level 1 instead of your anti air. The input for the anti air is 623K, and for the level 1 its 236236K. Even in high level Jamie compilations I see that breakdance come out when they clearly meant to anti-air. So having it as a single button on modern is maybe even a bigger quality of life than for other characters.

[@maph12]

Thank you very much. I've been trying to look out for when an opponent has Modern controls, and this helps to let me know what specific things they can do to watch out for.

[@DonRayan909]

The best street fighter content creator in KZbin, hands down 👍

[@tomkrawec]

The best FG content creator!

[@nashcity4492]

Havent played a fighting game in a long time, since the start of SFV and since picking up modern controls on Honda I really love it. Easy to get into and I'm having more fun with the game then worrying about inputs.

[@AlienSquidMonster]

E. Honda with modern controls is my main. I do everything the classic controls way to get the max damage or to use the version of a special move I need (depending on the circumstance). I still use the 1 button command grab, and easy link supers (i find it very difficult to combo into them otherwise), and very occasionally the first auto combo. I do this because I fell for the over hype of modern controls and this is my first street fighter and I didn't know better. So this is how I've learned the game. However I will say the plus side of modern to me is that I've never really played a six button lay out fighter and it feels incredibly weird to me. Coming from Injustice/MK it feels natural to have a four button lay out with enhancements/ special game mechanics on top of the controller. Not to mention aside from a poke and Honda's overhead (altho i still do the overhead i just have to hit MP first) I have everything i need. I have all the major buttons. Watching rooflemonger's fantastic Honda guide I can still do all of it. Overall I think modern controls were criminally over hyped, but their strength (for a select few characters) is that you can kind of cheat the system by still using max damage classic inputs while having a simplified button scheme.

[@170AndBeyond]

Just wanted to say I bought the victrix "hitbox" a couple weeks ago based off of your recent video about your custom. I'm so glad I did and wish I would've bought one years ago like I wanted to. Took like 6 days to feel actually comfortable. Two weeks later I'm starting to cook people again. Awesome video. I use Cammy and Guile and I agree with what you say. I use Classic Cammy but have been considering switching. I love "The Missile" as Punk says.

[@170AndBeyond]

I thought about getting that but I was like might as well go all out lol. Glad to hear that’s a good product as well.

[@dilbyfgc2259]

I think there is one major factor that is not being considered for charge characters, (particularly guile). Their supers. Guile’s 4646 input supers are very difficult to pull off in block pressure. The fact it’s charge and requires forward inputs means you lose your charge if you mess up. Basically in modern you can just hold a direction and mash the super button and you will get a perfect reversal every time. The best way I can show this is if you take a burnt out guile and have Cammy loop heavy punch into medium spin knuckle. Try to super out on classic. Took me about an hour. Then try on modern lol.

[@dilbyfgc2259]

I’ve been heavily considering modern guile in certain match ups just for the safety if I get burnt out. Something I think worth thinking about

[@angelmiguel632]

I use modern guile as a rush down character... Plus auto light combo into Drive cancel into auto medium special is so powerful it turns off people's router. He has loops with true inputs combined with assist..

[@icescorpion2375]

your the reason i am any good at fighting games, love ya as always I would love to see chun li guide btw, she's been giving me a lot trouble to the point where I had to switch to ken so that would be much appreciated

[@cylonscion5470]

Chun had spinning bird kick in modern (via auto-combo) during the open beta but now it's gone; interestingly it does show up still in world tour mode. They should revisit her in modern.

[@bunbunkitten]

Modern Chun still has her bird kick, you just need to do the Down-charge-Up for it.

[@cylonscion5470]

@@bunbunkitten yes, but they actually had it part of one of the auto-combos (after holding down auto assist)

[@mreko108]

Her modern mode is currently much better than her beta version, though I admit her light auto combo is worse. But the difference between having stance at all and not having stance is game changing imo

[@bja808]

Chun isnt the best in modrn but her heavy auto combo really helps get her into the stance for a follow up.

[@claire6452]

Chun lv1 super is also really really good on reaction. That said, she is one of the few character that have the same move TWICE (her heavy auto-combo starter and down heavy are the same move) which is such a waste. You could keep her exactly the same by moving back-heavy as the auto-combo heavy starter (since it still connect into the launcher) and give her either the flip kick or her overhead on back-heavy instead, and she'd be as good as she can be on modern. Of course having access to the punch in stance by using the auto combo modifier would be a dream come true, but that's never happening.

[@Frumsl84]

I Play Jamie. ITs ok for a old man Like me.

[@luigiluigix2]

Being a lifelong SF fan, I'm totally accustomed to playing Classic, though in SF6 I like playing modern moreso because the LMHS controls of modern makes me feel like I'm playing SF6 as an anime fighter. I appreciate you makin' this list to help out others on the fence about Modern. That said, I find it really weird that the assist button combos and normals differ between characters and their World Tour variants. World Tour Chun style gets her roundhouse kick normal through Auto+H which is pretty huge but regular chun's Auto+H still sends 2HP when 2H does the same thing. I think there should be some level of customization on which moves are kept and which aren't, but maybe they take that into consideration for balance purposes...?

[@TakumiJoyconBoyz]

I mostly just like using Modern when I wanna play on Pad instead of stick because I find doing the normals better, not so much for the specials. I just hate having normals mapped to the shoulder buttons. I don't even really use the easy inputs on Modern unless they are required.

[@TheCrewExpendable]

Yeah normals on shoulders is awful. The trigger buttons (L2/R2 on PS; LT/RT or XBox) might be good for an FPS, but for a fighting game they are way to mushy and imprecise. Also hitting shoulders buttons as often as needed hurts my hands.

[@AceLeader101]

Lol ironically I kinda feel that taking away the buffer from supers, while it does make punishes piss easy, it removes a bit of the mind game of baiting out a response to you buffering a super. You could bait someone into responding to you if you pretend like you're messing up an input, but if you're in modern then it's too obvious. Obviously you gain more defensively and its kind of a meme, but it's still a valuable thing to consider.

[@kingcobweb]

Something else cool about Modern that you didn't touch on is the auto-combos that deal full damage instead of 80%. I'm a newbie playing Lily, and as an example, in round 3 you can punish with Auto-Heavy combo and it'll go into Super 3 without even taking the damage penalty for Modern inputs. It's another valuable aspect of Modern that's been mostly overlooked: these aren't just for beginners mashing a button to do a combo, they're useful "combo fragments" that you can go into from other moves and still access your 100% damage supers without ever worrying about messing up the timing late in a tournament.

[@dominicjannazo7144]

I've found heavy autos to be most useful when you don't have 3 bars, just because it's a decent combo for most characters if you're unsure of a better one.

[@skychaos87]

I've played a modern lily and i can say she is broken for the movesets she has. She can footsie and poke just like on classic. Her dp is not punishable even if you do a cross up or tatsu jump to bait her dp, because it has so much horizontal range. Then there is command grab with insane range with a single input. And yea, her auto hit confirms are cheap. Especially when she can auto CA or super hit confirms from normals or special moves.

[@jamesbaxter7492]

Please do one of these for season two .... you latest season two video have been amazing , the two hour vid must have taken a lot of work , brilliant 👏

[@haeven1622]

I think if you need accessibility or if Street Fighter is difficult (I think Street Fighter is difficult), Modern is a very good choice (especially on the higher tiered fighters). What you say makes sense. And I agree with you.

[@Android-om6sr]

At the end of the day, I get more damage on my opponents in modern (despite the debuff) than I would in classic 🤣. Thank you for this. Was playing Modern Zangief but now will look to try Luke or Ken.

[@Ephelle]

Luke's level 2 is also a pretty good and punishing anti-air that benefits from being a single button input. There are some jump spacings or air moves that can cause Luke's DP to miss because he goes a bit forward, and level 2 will beat those. Even though you could probably beat those situations by just DPing later, the level 2 removes the ambiguity and does pretty good damage.

[@ScarletKako98]

Man, you definitely deserve a break with all the quality content you've been putting up nonstop!! By the way, any plans on taking a deeper look at Jamie any time in the near future? Not a lot of streamers/content creators are playing him and the few guides that exist are either not very long or are from like the first beta

[@rooflemonger]

I like him and I will get aroun to him eventually I am sure. Right now the the docket is Zangief and Cammy are next

[@SmokePudding]

I got recommended a 1 hour Jaime full guide two days ago

[@deadfr0g]

When your “simplified” alternative control scheme has its own unique tech, you’re not dumbing the game down. You’re actually just getting a little bit 🔶groovy🔶.

[@nukeboy4939]

Luke is so good on Modern it's actually crazy.😂

[@ArkhamKnightChannel]

He’s become a primary main of mine.

[@whymustyoudothis5097]

This aged a bit weird. Modern Chun getting top 8 at Evo and all.

[@sometingclever]

This is the one I've been waiting for! thank you for making this

[@SvenS2]

I enjoy Modern Controls Gief quite a lot. It's hard to do an SPD consistently on keyboard, let alone a 720, so it helps a ton. His Supers also benefit greatly from the quick and easy access, since you use them on reaction to counter the enemy. For the rest of your moves, the motion is pretty easy and lenient, especially if you turn on negative edge, so you don't really loose much on damage You also have your kick counter, which for some reason isn't mentioned in the moves list. Not that it's all that great, but serves some purpose vs certain sweaty feet

[@noarms1171]

Keyboard SPD isn't too hard in my experience (if you can do a half circle, you can do a 360 after all, and it being side-independent also helps), but the 720 part is true. Then again I play Lily so I can't exactly speak to gief's strengths

[@redguardhammerfell1101]

Interestingly enough, in the openbeta, b+SP took priority over d+SP so you could do crouching sonicbooms with Guile using the shortcut back then. They changed it in the final release for whatever reason though. Maybe they felt it was too powerful.

[@Mimz670]

Modern Cammy believer here. I think the biggest tool Cammy losses is her standing light kick. Its her furthest reaching light normal that is special cancelable and without it cannot punish things like Ken's Jinrai kick and DJ's low forward. Otherwise, she would retain practically everything she needs.

[@zxadvent19]

I’ve been having a lot of fun playing Dee Jay with Modern, but I absolutely see what you mean when you say that you shouldn’t bother with Modern charge characters. 😅

[@jessegarciaiv5380]

Me too. Deejay is very fun with modern controls

[@cortesgamerdeesquerda8137]

I was very disappointed by modern Mannon. It's fun to easily grab, but experienced players will know how to dodge that, and then Mannon misses some good combos with the loss of mid kick dégagé, which is one of her main aerial combos. So I'm basically stuck with trying the "two-hit grab" or the low kick dégagé or the drive rush.

[@bunbunkitten]

On Guile... while I don't like the wiggle of his supers, and normally Modern gives you quick reactive moves like DP and supers, but all of those are behind a charge on him anyway! And then, the existence of his Perfect mechanic steps in to make sure you're double-punished for using shortcuts... Modern Lily, meanwhile, really is just a better version of her. You lose her overhead and both kicks, but you can work just fine without those. She's also your best bet if you want to mainly play with just the 4 face buttons of a controller.

[@t3hmaniac]

4:08 quite a bit if you don't have the dexterity/timing for the charge down. If you fuck up the charge input on classic for whatever reason (Say you fumble the D-pad or try to unleash it too early) you have to start the charge all over again. On Modern, nothing happens and you maintain the partial charge.

[@Xengard]

im playing with classic ryu and i got to platinum. i cant reach that rank with modern ken, but im not far off as you say in the video, 1 button DP is the most attractive thing of modern. the opponent cant really jump towards you unless its a perfectly spaced crossup or something. ken also has his one button lvl3 in modern which is a beast of antiair and Drive Impacts. and i guess the other reason to play with modern is that you never drop a combo if you use auto combo... and ken's light and medium combo are pretty good thanks for the video!

[@FabsterCola]

I'm getting a hand/wrist surgery later this year so if I still want to play this game during my recovery I have to play one handed and to make one handed easier I was thinking on playing with modern controls. This video will help with me finding a temporary main, thank you!

[@AndresLionheart]

Yeh, that makes sense. The two character I have enjoyed the most with Modern controls are Luke and Cammy. Ken is alright too.

[@MorganAndrew-Morganson-nu5oc]

As a Modern controls player, this guide is very helpful. I've playing Guile on Modern controls and thinking about Dee Jay ... maybe I should switch? I think making the super moves easier is a plus, at least in Guile's case. (I couldn't imagine doing the Sonic Hurricane on a pad. All-button controller maybe, but not a pad.) I knew Luke was good with Modern controls even in the beta, and most people said Lily was great also, so I'm thinking of using her. I hadn't considered Cammy. May give her a shot even though I'm not a fan of rushdown characters.

[@bunbunkitten]

Many Cammy players don't like Modern losing her stLK and crMP, FWIW.

[@gamepeon8038]

Guile's super input is a pain to do under stress, simple super input helped me win a lot of close matches

[@feri7mble]

Sonic Hurricane isn't particularly difficult on pad compared to other pad inputs, it's a matter of practice.

[@yocyber5711]

Yeah Lily is definitely the best grappler in modern. Especially since on fighstick, I always do her overhead accidentally instead of her crouching hp

[@That_Kazuma]

rooflemonger idk why but i feel like we are friends idk i guess your just that friendly lol love ya bro keep being you your so nice and helpful!

[@BrotherCheng]

I'm admittedly still in the scrub leagues but I feel like I do see relatively more Modern Cammy's than other characters, and every time I see them I get a little scared since she can be pretty good lol, especially when you are playing a shoto.

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

Guile was looking pretty strong before but it makes sense if you have to play them normally and there's not really a reason to do it

[@rugalthreesixteen6812]

Hey rooflemonger, I love the SF6 content very well crafted and welcoming. in other news though.. you ignored Goenitz.

[@damazsta]

I was waittttinggg for this. I subbbed!

[@PadChords]

The real strength of modern controls isn't in making individual move inputs simpler, it's in executing combos flawlessly. Though the individual specials do lose damage and for Guile you can't do perfect booms, you always have the option to _do the move yourself_ using one of the three attack buttons. But if you find yourself in a situation where a longer combo can be done, but don't have a well-practiced combo of your own, modern controls can help to fill the gap.

[@Clarfeldt]

Ok now it makes sense why fighting stuff like Luke is annoying when they are modern, they spam ranges and if I try to jump in they always get the instant anti-air and I'm just left wondering if I have a move that could beat that, but seems like there just isn't.

[@masterfrostino447x]

I don't know if I fully agree with that "Don't Bother" Tier, even though I understand that you're operating off of the fact that you have experience with charge moves. I think that personally, the fact that Chun-Li also has a one button DP that she doesnt have to charge, on top of the fact that it's a forward input and not a down input alone gives her some utility in modern. She's not the best (losing all overheads and Crouching mp without autocombo), but certainly has a reason of being played. And then, of course, if you can't do charge moves, then all of these characters are worth playing in modern.

[@bunbunkitten]

Yeah, Chun having a forward+Special access to her DP is so much better than having to stop to teabag before being able to do it. Shame about her one-button fireball being the heavy variant, not the space-controlling light one, when it's not like your focus is dmg if you're using the shortcut in the first place.

[@nelsal6416]

Something I’ve noticed people not bringing up is “missing” moves. If you know the input you can still do them, like the different fireballs

[@That1CrappyGuy]

It really depends on the character/move. Some moves that share the same motion as others may not be doable in modern controls. For example, Marisa’s gladius and quadriga share the same motion but require either a punch or kick. With how modern controls consolidates punches and kicks into single buttons, the motion will always output a gladius and never a quadriga. While you can technically perform a quadriga at the end of her autocombo, the move is effectively “missing” in modern controls.

[@Apocalythpe]

Great vid and super informative! I might have to watch it a few times kek

[@N13J]

The reason I don’t go Modern is because I have to remap buttons in my head and often mess up the combo because of the usual muscle memory. Might have to try [M] Cammy for a change though.

[@reaflor91]

One VERY important thing about Modern mode for charge characters. There's a VERY important reason why they made it so you still have to charge your specials. There's a long since forgotten game called Super Street Fighter IV 3D Edition. It was made for the 3DS. And it boasted pretty much the same thing as the base game, but it had something important. The touch screen. The touch screen gave you 4 FREE buttons. Buttons where, you can set ANY move. Normal? Yeah. Special? Yeah. Super? Yeah. Ultra? Of course. And let me tell you. Modern mode had NOTHING on these. And you know who abused them the most? CHARGE CHARACTERS. Imagine a Guile that could Sonic Boom while walking FORWARD. Imagine a Honda that could both use Headbutt AND Sumo Throw with ZERO commitment. Let me tell you, it was a fucking nightmare. And Capcom KNEW this, so they made sure they never repeated the same mistake ever again.

[@LeviathanCove]

Thanks for digging into it!

[@alexherreria3362]

Old man here too slow to do double quarter circles. Old but good experience with other fighting games in the past is really good with Modern Cammy.

[@El-Burrito]

When I played the game for the first time, I used Modern Guile. It felt fairly decent because I didn't have to think about what my hands were doing so much and I could just focus on my gameplan. I switched to classic controls in the open beta though and yeah once you're used to them, modern feels really pointless. The only thing I lost is that I can't spam the special button when I've cornered my opponent to repeatedly boom and sonic blade, but that was never really a good tactic to begin with.

[@therealskylockvixen5885]

I highly disagree with your synopsis of charge characters. Pressing forward is the hard part for me and I think a lot of people. Holding back or down is easy. But one thing I think you really should have focused on is their assist combos. Blanka has some of the best assist combos in the game, Ive played them all. His heavy assist combo can be linked into both his level 1 and 3 super. His medium assist links into his super 1 automatically. His light assist is so fast it can break DI's. And his heavy assist can duck DI's. I think you should do a video detailing all the assist combos and you'll see the real tier list. Another detail that is important is which moves you can actually manually input. Some specials you can do for full damage some are locked by special button. Kens a good example of a modern character where you do most of the specials with manually inputs but his assist combos set him apart. His medium assist is unbelievable. One more detail most characters first hit from their medium assist combo can be linked right into your DI. Thats super useful to always know which hit can link into DI and have your finger ready to hit it.

[@rainyfriday6175]

Played a Luke, on modern, spamming DI’s yesterday. Felt so good to win while choosing random.

[@eliholland1365]

Gawd's work sir. Den of Sin has breakdowns on modern controls showing what everyone does and doesn't have access to. This is good because there is a lot of negat8ve talk in the community sounding like a bunch of boomers saying all sorts of gatekeeper stuff deriding modern which is quite onerous and off-putting, especially because modern was to increase the player pool... I hope more knowledge and balanced conversation can help change the narrative because this rn is the only real ugly thing i am picking up rn that is of consequence.

[@dianauwu1312]

Except modern controls *are* kind of a problem. I wouldn't call them a mistake, I'm just weary of the intentions of a feature like this. Is it really accessibility if you lose huge parts of your moveset? And then, on the other side of the coin, the "beginner mode" is viable in tournaments because it breaks certain characters. Besides, having one button specials is going to have an effect on design, even if it's a subtle one. I wish devs would just bite the bullet, do a better job tutorializing and explaining inputs instead of these awkward half-measures.

[@Rationalific]

Thanks for the info and your thoughts!

[@malloy5641]

I agree with everything that you're saying, BUT with the exception of Guile. I'm pretty solid with Modern Guile.

[@xDragonInstallx]

Jamie cannot be played in Modern. He doesn't have c.light punch which is his only 4frame normal. Literally has no frame traps without it.

[@Shadercheg]

I am playing a Modern Kim and i am totally doing fine with it, not sure if i get anything additionally from using Modern but i am totally able to play the game all right (i am plat2 currently), even despite 20% dmg cut (which probably means it still helps me alot since i win even with dmg cut) and this is the whole point of alternate control scheme: give you a choice of how you want to play this game and let you have fun without difficult motion inputs

[@arandomtoychannel8117]

I agree with all but two. The grapplers are OP with modern. Modern controls allow for one button grabs on characters with insane damage already what’s 500 less damage when you’re doing 5000 damage on a level 5 Manon grab. Yes they lose out on a few things like Manons Degége high kick but you are still able to do the manual inputs for her other moves. Idk about gief but getting SPD on two button presses is infuriating to fight against

[@bunbunkitten]

Modern Jamie loses all access to a 4f button (crouch+Light is his 5f kick, same as Assist+Light, and his jab is 5f). So he's in a much worse spot instantly because of that.

[@ghostwolf1435]

E Honda is awesome in modern I’m tearing it up

[@giuliano482]

After seeing the tier list I was hoping you'd touch on why Kimberly is in nothing special and not higher, she has a one-button DP too, is she missing something major? The other nothing special characters you didn't go in-depth on make sense from what I've heard & experienced: Manon I know is missing a bunch of useful pokes that help her get in. Marisa is a damage character so the 20% reduction hurts more. JP doesn't have easy access to all the ranges that you would want to be an effective zoner.

[@rooflemonger]

her DP is not a frame 1 invincible vs air attack like everyone else. Everyone in the nothing special tier is only because there is nothing to say, at least modern isn't actively a hindrance to them like it is for charge characters

[@user-Maximoz7]

I'm new to Street fighter and fighting games my first character in Sf6 is Chunli and im using modern control she is rly good im nt sure why pro players say she is bad in modern control !!!

[@user-Maximoz7]

my point is it can be good to learn more classic control + modern control its like a hybrid modern control cuz lately i started to add some combos that are a mix between normal control + modern

[@sweett3253]

I like that Dee Jay can sort of work better as a zoner with Modern, and you can fire of your slashers a bit quicker, but I would agree it's not much of a factor in my experience

[@IcyTorment]

I think the one-button DP is more valuable for defensive/reactive characters. The way I tend to play Ryu makes modern more of a benefit for him than it would be for the other shotos.

[@soyunbonus]

For me, the point of modern on charge characters are auto combos and instant supers.

[@kevindietrich5028]

I think someone really underestimates charge characters, especially Honda. I am a Honda main and let me tell you this. The modern way of charge (meaning charging and releasing with special) is first of all easy and very fast. The problem you talk about (like instead of getting headbutt and unwillingly executing the hundred slaps) is just a general flaw of modern controls being restricted with 4 special instant moves. My advice: just use an attack and charge simultaneously, so you can release the charge instantly. It is not a problem of modern but to input your move correctly... meaning charging a move for real just like in classics (using an attack and to charge simultaneously). And do not forget the super arts of charge character... they are broken. Especially Honda's super art level 2 by using charge and 2 buttons. Modern charge characters are actually great... you just have to learn a "new concept" of charge.

[@TrveEmma]

Very interesting, LOVE your channel.! greetings from germany

[@storyshom]

I honestly think instant level 3 moves are enough of a reason to at least consider modern controls. Even when I am against a superior player using classic controls, 9 times out of 10 I will be able to hit them with a surprise level 3, which just might be enough to turn the tide.

[@mreko108]

I think you're kind of underselling the benefits of one button supers on reaction to whiffs, which I think are probably close to as impactful as the one button DP. Being able to super in reaction to, for example, an incoming drive rush can be game winning in a lot of instances imo

[@rooflemonger]

I spend a giant part of the video talking about how good and important it is for the characters it matters for, how on earth am I underselling it?

[@DayFul]

Lily loses medium kick in modern it's surprisingly good and I've had to use it a lot more as times gone on. Medium punch is very risky if your opponent uses drive impact a lot, I don't think Capcom thought it through given it should be a great button to bully people with in neutral.

[@Assassin21BEKA]

For me benefit of modern is just having 3 attack buttons instead of 6. I am doing motion inputs anyway, because it is easy. So, how good character on modern cones down to how important lost moves are for character.

[@Axxxel_in_Harlem]

20% less dmg.

[@aquaticnstuff7666]

im playing modern e honda and its kinda fun ngl... mixing it up after classic chun li. its nice to not worry about "do I need to kick or punch here" instead it's just... heavy medium light strength. honestly I hardly EVER use the combos, and 90% of my charge moves are heavy/light/medium not the special button; however modern is basically a free combo button... it makes the game easier ngl...

[@Syahburei]

i was distracted by the two NPCs at the background flirting hahah

[@kuiperkineticliterature7586]

Besides losing normals, there are some characters who actually lose SPECIAL moves when going to modern. (It's not a matter of "they didn't get shortcuts for all their moves," but the fact the game REMOVES the manual inputs -- it is impossible to perform these specials if you are using modern controls!) Manon might be the biggest victim of this, as she loses two versions of Dégagé, specifically 214HK (a 20-frame overhead that is safe when spaced, making it a potent neutral tool) and 214MK (a 2-hit hop-kick with great corner carry and a combo ender with great frame advantage in the corner) -- the game *does not* let you manually input them; it just completely removes them from her moveset. (You also lose the ability to manually input the 214LK that serves as her 16-frame low, though you can perform this move using the shortcut button.) On a similar note, Honda loses the L(ong range) and H(igh damage) versions of his command grab: the game *does not allow you to manually input a command grab*, you only get the shortcut button (which performs a medium version of the command grab). My understanding is that they removed the manual input for some characters specials to avoid giving characters both half-circle and quarter-circle inputs that shared the same button, which I guess they thought would be a problem for some reason. It's kind of a bummer, because they didn't have to do this!

[@aquaticnstuff7666]

honda does have overdrive oichi throw which is longer range than medium. so he has 2 oichis in modern

[@sGzBugz]

I play modern Ken. Decided to play modern bc SF will never be my main game but I have fun playing friends in it. Also let’s me play for long sessions, like 6 hours, when I did that in older SF games my thumb didn’t enjoy it. Got to mid platinum rank with modern Ken with only like 18 ranked games and tbh he’s def better on classic but I do think he is a top modern character. You’re basically playing neutral with most of his buttons and just looking to convert to the mid auto combo that you can turn into lots of damage or corner carry depending on what you want. Instant supers also helps defensively and at my level most ppl just flat out don’t respect it or expect it. Ken has the best and most versatile auto combo out of anyone I have tried on modern by far. Most auto combos force you to use bar and don’t do much damage without ending them with super. Ken doesn’t have this issue.

[@javianbrown8627]

The only thing making me even consider modern rn is 1 button supers so I don't have to buffer them in as I find that difficult. But as I tried it and my familiarity with classic made it feel awkward

[@M1istaken]

I’d argue that zangief should be in strengths, having a 0 frame command grab that does guaranteed 50% and the only condition is that they are on the ground, and once you combine that with 1 press of a button makes modern zangief arguably better than classic, only issue Is that he loses the borsch dynamite combo air grab, which is his main damage in combos

[@Saielb]

Crazy to see the trend going toward consistency and practicality vs what's optimal

[@Blinks77]

To be fair. Practical and consistent is in a lot of ways what's optimal.

[@Saielb]

@@Blinks77 touche lol

[@HWHY]

​@@Blinks77 Nail, head, etc.

[@guitalex2005]

The *instant* I noticed Marisa lost her Sparta kick approach move I went back to Classic.

[@MostlyDrew]

Would you care to do another tier list considering haitani's show out at evo? doesn't have to be a whole video, just the list would be fine

[@rooflemonger]

Haitani is just haitani, my opinion isn't changed just cause he's a god and can make anything work.

[@DerrickBarrows]

Had a Tai Kwon Do guy kick my butt with the real life equivalent of Luke's standing medium kick. Muay Thai stance had my hands high and I would wall right into it with my mid section. That move can be fast and effective irl.

[@TheHaddos]

While I agree Lily is really good on modern. I do think she loses standing light punch for drive rush(which can confirm lights to crouching hp) and jump HP( for the really low hitbox)

[@rooflemonger]

she retains stand LP, and jump HP is regrettable I guess, but she retains the really important jump buttons so its not that big of a deal

[@TheHaddos]

@@rooflemonger maybe i should have clarified she does retain stand lp. But you can't do it raw off drive rush. The light button chains lk lp in that order and forgoes her option to choose the +9 on hit. Best way too understand what i mean is advanced trail 3 for modern and classic.

[@phdbot4483]

My brother who's been playing this game, has been running Cammy with Modern controls. He's fortunate that she benefits from 1-button Cannon Spikes and easy instant divekicks, while still keeping her stand medium kick. ^^

[@Tybis]

Disagree on charge characters instantly being the worst just because of charge motions. Since you don't have to let go of the charge direction, you can keep your charge instead of losing it when doing the manual input, and for down charges there's no risk of accidentally jumping. For Blanka, he only has 1 air special, so you can't miss the timing on air ball, you just have nothing happen as your charge keeps building.

[@igne0]

I am using Honda in modern and i find it pretty good man. I use most of the specials by hand and only use the moderns inputs to antiair or wifpunish some things (C.grab for example) and for the supers. I reallu dont think its that bad.

[@caleb13c]

Also a modern Honda, mainly because I am bad at thinking around the 6 buttons

[@NumberNineKeo]

same

[@rosaL8008]

Remember that one guy that perfected hookganggod with modern guile

[@FightyMighty782]

The one thing that I think you're missing for charge characters is the fact that the inputs for their supers are atrocious, as someone with cerebral palsy who has recently picked up guile, I can say that I prefer him on Modern controls way more than I did in classic, but that's just me

[@ThePlasticBowl]

Thats just Guile though right? I play Dee Jay and Chun and their supers are normal Double QCF/QCB.

[@FightyMighty782]

@@ThePlasticBowl I will have to check them out at some point

[@Mene0]

Incredible content 👏