Ropes for Ski Mountaineering

What are the best lightweight ski mountaineering ropes? Why buy a special rope just for ski touring? How are these ropes different from traditional dynamic ropes? What are the situations that we use these the most? What are the best accessory devices to go with these skinny ropes?
Most important of all: which model should I buy? I took a close look at the Petzl Rad Line, The Mammut Glacier Cord Dry, and the Edelrid Rap Line Protect Pro Dry.
I go through all these questions and more. This is a video for the gear nerds and those that are looking into ways to make their pack lighter and go further on skis. If you just want the quick review of which model is best, skip to the COMPARISON section of the video!
This is not an instructional video. If you'd like to learn more about the techniques described in it, I strongly recommend an IFMGA Mountain Guide! There's lots of resources on the internet as well, one of the best being Mark Smiley's Mountain Sense Ski Mountaineering Online Course!
www.mtnsense.com
I also strongly recommend checking out the technical manuals that come with each of these ropes, especially the Petzl.
- Petzl: www.petzl.com/CA/en/Sport/Rop...
- Edelrid: www.edelrid.de/en/sports/acce...
- Mammut: static.mammut.com/file/User_M...
------------Links for Ropes------------
(prices differ slightly from MSRP mentioned in video!)
Edelrid Rap Line Protect Pro Dry
- Climb On Squamish ($334 - 60m): shop.climbonsquamish.com/edel...
- Vertical Addiction Canmore
Petzl RAD Line
- Climb On Squamish ($319 - 30m): shop.climbonsquamish.com/petz...
- Vertical Addiction Canmore ($289 - 30m): www.vertical-addiction.com/us...
- SkiUphill Canmore ($289 - 30m): skiuphill.ca/collections/safe...
Mammut Glacier Cord Dry
- SkiUphill Canmore ($289 - 30m): skiuphill.ca/collections/safe...
- Valhalla Pure ($289 - 30m): vpo.ca/product/315840/glacier...
- Climb On Squamish
------------Other Gear------------
Blue Ice Choucas Light Harness
- Ski Uphill: skiuphill.ca/collections/safe...
- ClimbOn Squamish: shop.climbonsquamish.com/blue...
Blue Ice Akila Ice Tool
- SkiUphill Canmore: skiuphill.ca/collections/safe...
Edelrid Slider Locking Carabiner
- ClimbOn Squamish: shop.climbonsquamish.com/edel...
------------Sections------------
00:00 Intro
01:16 Why Specialized Ropes?
05:39 Rope Model Comparison
12:12 Glacier Travel
14:55 Cornices
20:01 Rappeling
23:40 Ascent/Climbing
25:21 Special Gear for Small Ropes
Disclaimer: Ropes were provided for review. This was not sponsored (paid) nor are any of the links affiliate links!

[@flukeofficial]

Nice to have these rope compared. Thank you

[@macmurfy2jka]

Just a friendly reminder, Grivel just launched the Scream belay device. It is rated for use down to 5mm cords and up to 8mm, covering a super wide range of ropes and use cases when thinking about SkiMo. It’s a simple stitching plate/placcette, so it’s about as light and simple as these things get. And for like $30 a great deal

[@scoobaydu8125]

The Grivel Scream is rated for 5-8mm ropes as a rappel/belay plate

[@rabmcleod3508]

Clear, concise and well put together video with just the right amount of info on this topic. Good job.

[@ryanadrift]

Best ski mountaineering ropes video I’ve seen so far. Easy to understand for a more beginner level person. Nice work

[@mikekerfoot8087]

Great timing - I was just researching this

[@imihe]

Lot of great information. Thanks for sharing

[@johngo6283]

Outstanding video, thanks for posting!

[@Evanturar]

Excellent video. Perfect and covered everything.

[@erinandrade9462]

The Grivel Scream is another option for a belay device, to be used with small diameter ropes.

[@Eighty7Years]

great info Eric! much appreciated

[@brennanburns4326]

Great video!

[@andymaccallum7924]

Thank you Eric, great video

[@andrewwebb5906]

Really good video Eric!

[@agrestechile]

Awesome video!, Thanks for sharing such important information.

[@caqp95]

Thanks for the informative video. Great example videos overlaid as well!

[@jnyne3303]

Great video! You’ve got a very good “gear review” style. Keep em coming!

[@slashghero]

Great video!! Thanks!!

[@stanofaban4715]

Fantastic video Eric! Thanks for sharing the experience! 😃

[@jonahking2168]

bomber video. looking to pick stuff up for next season while off-season sales are on. Thanks for the great info mate

[@nicrepond9350]

Hi Eric, this is an oustanding overview. Thanks a lot for your insights and tips. Best of luck for a productive, fun and safe winter.

[@recrdx]

Damn dude. Great video. Came to the many of the same conclusions after picking up the Petzl Rad 60m regarding the Reverso and number of your other points. Great to see the comparison with the other ropes. Keep the specific ski mountaineering videos coming.

[@Jesgus0914]

amazing video

[@MrAclaudel]

You had me at “more food”.

[@TehBaconer]

Bro please keep making these types of videos I thought that was super informative and you were really engaging keep it up man and also thank you

[@skiericcarter]

👊 right on!

[@Richard-bu5gb]

Awesome video! Best video I've seen on ski mountaineering

[@dannyisrael]

haha the b roll is so epic.

[@swaspc7618]

Great video. Try AustriAlpin Nemo (Ø6mm) or/and Grivel Scream Belayer (Ø5-8mm).

[@skiericcarter]

I haven’t seen the Nemo but I have the scream and it’s perfect!

[@colinwatt00]

First and foremost, thank you for the video and sharing your knowledge. I have a ski culture question - in much the same way people often choose the least expensive (and shortest range) transceiver and smallest shovel to save money and weight, how do you manage people who only want to bring (or only have) a 30m RAD line when a RAP line is better suited to the shared objective? Do you ask them to purchase the appropriate equipment to be shared between you? Do you purchase a 60m RAP line yourself and ask them to carry it since they didn’t have to commit financially? Do you find better tour partners who are more willing to spend the money on the appropriate equipment? - thank you Bonus question 1 - what length rope do you recommend as a first purchase? Bonus question 2 - what about the Black Diamond ATC Alpine Guide? It’s rated at 6.9-9mm which is quite close.

[@skiericcarter]

I think when we're debating ultra-niche hyperstatic ropes, we've hopefully moved past buying the cheapest option. For those people, there's always the 30m 8mm half rope that you can get for like $30. I generally have a spare to loan out to partners if they don't have one but almost always, a partner will see the value of the higher quality and then go buy their own. At this point, most of my partners are pretty dialled so it's a non issue. BQ1 - 30 is the minimum for sure. Better value and versatility with a 60m. You can always cut it in half as you said and share with a friend! BQ2 - 100% would work. I don't like that BD has a parent company that makes guns and stuff so I try to avoid spending money there. Wouldn't fault anyone for it though!

[@robertrepka1372]

Hello, great video! Since maybe rappeling is the most often situation during ski mountaineering, could you maybe list some instructions or videos which you find usefull? Btw, great job with this one, learned a lot as a beginner!

[@skiericcarter]

Check out mark smileys mountain sense online Course - he covers rappelling for skimo in detail!

[@3k8d]

Great video! Why can't "tag lines" (such as the Petzl Pur line) be used for glacier travel?

[@skiericcarter]

@3k8d - in some cases the breaking strength is much lower on tag lines and just insufficient. Just as important though is that tag lines are static and taking a fall, on rock or into a crevasse, on a static rope is really dangerous.

[@jamesmah820]

I appreciated stuff sacks too

[@skiericcarter]

Most important point!

[@timzander2172]

Nice video. What are your thoughts on skinny half options like the Beal Gully? More weight than the edilrid but rated for 6 falls. Also the Beal Escaper has caught my eye. I currently only bring a 9.2 single 60m and the escaper for full length rappels(when having technical climbing), having left the tag line behind.

[@skiericcarter]

It just comes down to the situation. A half is overkill if you're just rapping/glacier travel. I haven't looked specifically at the gully but if I'm on terrain that I could usually solo but with overhead or exposure, I'll go light and use the Edelrid. If the climbing is hard enough I'm actually concerned about protecting against a fall, I'll use a skinny single or doubled half ropes. The escaper is interesting but only works in specific situations. If the rap is free-hanging, great. If it's ever so slightly over a roll or on generally low angle terrain, it doesn't work (coming from experience of getting one stuck). So... Just depends!

[@sebrura]

Beal Escaper works brilliantly even in non vertical raps. Of course it can get stuck if you’re unlucky, but so can any rope. I’ve used the Escaper in lots of different situations, never failed me.

[@philippegauthier2013]

Thanks for the info. I enjoyed listening to it. What about the static ropes like the BD 6.0 static. I know some folks and guides using it in the Rockies. Would this be similar to your second options you discuss?

[@skiericcarter]

No go for glacier travel and kind of depends on the rappels. The BD option falls in the category of rap/tag lines I mentioned in the vid but there's way better options (Petzl Pur'line).

[@MrScottWieland]

@@skiericcarter BD 6.0 static. How about chairlift self-evac? Used only for that situation?

[@skiericcarter]

@@MrScottWieland in a static, rappel only situation, yes absolutely! In a situation where you could potentially load it in a fall (like glacier travel or climbing) then the BD static is not sufficient

[@CommieHunter7]

You mentioned the RAD line is good for glacier travel, but NOT for using a fixed anchor over a crevasse snow bridge. Would you take two ropes then?

[@skiericcarter]

It depends on the situation. If you expected extensive fixed anchor belaying, a half rope would be more appropriate. Ideally though, you’d just use a dynamic belay with the RAD line (standard glacier travel mode tied together) with people moving together to approach the bridge.

[@FallLineJP]

Great video! Would you trust the rad line or edelrid cords for a fully freehanging rappel where all of your weight is on the rope (as opposed to just walking backwards down a steep slope where a significant part of your weight is still on the slope itself)? Or in that scenario would you only use that as a tagline with a thicker rope for the rappel itself?

[@skiericcarter]

For sure - all these lines are rated for rappel including a full overhanging rappel. No problems there.

[@FallLineJP]

@@skiericcarter Cool, thanks for the reply! Another silly question but... if tying into the (doubled up) edelrid line for an emergency lead, would you have the climber tie into the end with the two loose strands (like a twin/half rope) or into the loop at the middle marker (and in this case, what knot would you use on that end)? Cheers!

[@dfishdesign531185]

​@@skiericcarter and @fallineJP same question as above, after viewing this video, it seems like an Edelrid Rap Line Protect Pro would be ideal for climbing around me. Mostly for rappels, but able to lead climbs in a pinch when I need it. Would you use a 60m and double the rope on lead, and tie into the loose ends? or at the midway mark with butterfly knot or something? or would you take two 30mm ropes like a double rope? Thanks!

[@skiericcarter]

@@dfishdesign531185 yeah - the RAD is not suitable for climbing so that makes it pretty simple. Edelrid RLP is technically rated for ascent but I’d still use it pretty cautiously. Low angle snow slopes or alpine terrain where fall forces are low and friction helps, yep. Super steep or around sharp edges, maybe not. If you have a 60, you can have one person girth hitch to the middle of the rope (pass a bight through their belay loop and then step through it) with the other ties to both ends. If you cut it in half and have 2x 30m that’s definitely better for glacier travel and you can both tie to both ends.

[@KlasLindgren]

Nice video! What base-/midlayer model is that? Looks comfy!

[@skiericcarter]

Fortrez Hoody! Super comfortable!

[@JLucRob]

Around 21:30, could you just wrap the line around the rock and rappel on the rope without the sling? Just like you would do on a tree. Once your done you pull the rope down and leave nothing up there. Would the rock damage the rope too much when you pull on it? Would there be ropes that would be better suited to doing it without the sling in this situation? Thanks!

[@skiericcarter]

You could but the rock had a bit of a sharp/rough edge. It would have made it potentially pretty difficult to pull. I’d rather leave a bit of cord and be sure that the rope will come down.

[@JLucRob]

@@skiericcarter Makes perfect sense!

[@JLucRob]

@@skiericcarter Hello Eric, I have an other question. What would be the thinnest cordelette you would use to make an anchor, if you only use it to rappel from it. So you won't be climbing or falling on it. I use 8mm for tope roping, 7mm when I'm trad climbing. Could I go down to 6 or 5mm if I only use it as an anchor to rappel? Thanks.

[@mnayar9488]

What diameter Prussic cord backup would you recommend?

[@skiericcarter]

5mm seems to work fine for me. Whatever you get, test first.

[@justinbayola]

by a dry static 60m and cut it in half and you get 2 30m ropes for the price of less than 1 of any of the ropes mentioned...

[@skiericcarter]

There are absolutely much cheaper options out there. That's not so much the point of this video... But if you do go for a cheaper choice - at least get something dynamic - not a static line. A skinny twin or half is not very expensive and more versatile.