Ross Barnes Broke Baseball; Then, Baseball Broke Ross Barnes

[@ThatOneGuy8305]

Man early baseball is so weird and messy and beautiful. 235 OPS+ with 1 HR, minor rule change, catches TB, career over. Truly the main character of early baseball.

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

I didn't realize that Total Bases were so dangerous!

[@BubbaStylefly]

We dont know what injuries he sustained. They prob didnt either. Plenty of players are great early and then fall off. Tim lincecum & kris bryant are 2 that come to mind immediately

[@goblins2k5]

One of the biggest differences in 1800s baseball is the sheer volume of unearned runs due to errors due to no gloves, making ERA and pitcher WAR questionable/meaningless stats.

[@tgags123HD]

​@@goblins2k5 Baseball Reference actually uses runs allowed per 9 in its WAR calculation, not ERA. And FanGraphs uses FIP. So the unearned runs wouldn't impact either version of WAR.

[@kevin.skorupa]

This is exactly the kind of guy who should be in the hall of fame, not just because he had such great seasons, but also because of the story of his career.

[@somerandomguy5977]

MLB isn't NFL

[@Steve-gx9ot]

​@@somerandomguy5977it isnt?

[@somerandomguy5977]

MLB has the strictest Hall of Fame whereas the NFL has the most lenient.

[@pangobara8182]

​@@somerandomguy5977, gotta say, I've literally never seen a person call the NFL HoF the easiest to get into

[@somerandomguy5977]

Then you clearly don't follow football. The NFL hall of fame is a popularity contest mixed with "good stories" and percentage wise they induct the highest percentage of ex players into the hall of fame. Kurt Warner is a hall of famer. The guy who had late start to his career and was a backup for several years in the NFL. His stats clearly aren't hof worthy but he's in there for the story. In baseball guys like Paul Goldschmidt and Joey Votto, both with career OPS well into the .900s with hall of fame worthy stats get dismissed by a large portion of people because those career numbers aren't quite good enough. You also don't need longevity in the NFL hall of fame. Patrick Willis retired after 8 seasons because of a chronic foot injury. No MLB player is getting into the hall of fame for 8 years of elite play then injuries. The baseball voters will say not enough counting stats. P.S. baseball inducts maybe a handful of players into the hof one year. The NFL hof inducts a handful of players every year.

[@Iridescence93]

Ross is usually one of the first hitting stars when I start an OOTP league in the 1870s. Cool to learn more about the real guy

[@jeffhogg4297]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@snacksizedsalami1278]

“when I start an ootp league in the 1870s” is one of the most psychopathic phrases I’ve ever heard. I like it but still.

[@Someguy1785]

12:20 On the contrary, games back then were umpired by whatever player wasn't on the starting roster that day. Eventually it had to be a player from another team in order to "guarantee" impartiality, until it was obvious that wasn't working. Full time umpires didn't become a regular thing until the 1879 season

[@tgags123HD]

Interesting, thanks for the info!

[@AlecMajerison]

I've long maintained Ross Barnes was baseball's first great hitter and first great champion. I had no idea he was such a great defensive player. Thanks for the info and for the respect for the man who should've been the first hall of famer.

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

_I've long maintained Ross Barnes was baseball's first great hitter and first great champion._ When you say "long", do you mean since 1876?

[@AlecMajerison]

@@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes I'm not quite that old.

[@kevinvilmont6061]

I've been talking about Ross Barnes since 1909 and no one will listen

[@pullt]

How does one calculate "replacement level" in those days? In the NA, many teams were below replacement level. The league itself was below replacement level and was replaced.

[@person1192]

Came for baseball, stayed for Mario Galaxy music

[@koreanBaseballNerd]

Channels and videos like these are basically my type of hard drugs. Loved this video!

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

I avoid drugs. The last 2 videos are unlike the other KZbin baseball rabble, but the previous 306 videos probably don't fall into my area of interest My advice for this young feller is to stick with baseball and forget Pokathon and especially Kanye

[@croke835]

Crazy to think Connecticut had multiple MLB teams in a season at one point

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

What is Connecticut? Fun Facts: 1. Did you ever notice that Fun Facts are not always facts, and never any real fun 2. Long time NYM fan - See what I mean? Well, it is a fact 3. Back when I was a grad student at the U of OK, I had this professor who had a unique accent. It seemed to be a combination of a New York City accent and a Boston accent When I asked him, he told me he's native to Hartford CT 4. Anyway, that's a partial answer to the first question 5. Believe it or not, there are some people who can tell the difference between a New York City accent and a Boston accent

[@AndrewFarrington-vz9jy]

Being born in Boston and growing up in CT I can attest to this....😂😂😂

[@KryMoore]

@@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes Fact. You are corny, have fun.

[@impulse_xs]

@@Jose_Hunters_EWF_RemixesFun fact, I nearly died of secondhand cringe reading your comment.

[@MrMaelstrom07]

4:30 I thought 1894 was a typo for Billy Hamilton. I'm like, um, he never got anywhere close to 200 runs and he didn't play in the 19th century. 😂

[@tgags123HD]

The original Billy Hamilton!

[@dodiad]

@@tgags123HD Sliding Billy. Perhaps the greatest leadoff hitter before Pete Rose and then Rickey Henderson.

[@MrMaelstrom07]

11:50 I umpired a couple 1865 games and let me tell you, this fair/foul business is TOUGH! Gimme 1877 any day!

[@F40PH-2CAT]

Montgomery Burns: sign him!

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

The St. Louis Brown Stockings? That's quite horrible Who the heck was doing their laundry?

[@dodiad]

Muddy Ruel.

[@cedricgist7614]

Good video! The most in-depth look at the career of Ross Barnes I've come across. Baseball was a different game back then. I probably came across the, "fair foul," term years ago - but it didn't register until now. Still, I noted the decrease in games played in 1877 - and you indicated that an unspecified illness - "ague" - plagued Barnes. I know it wasn't like Babe Ruth, "eating too many hot dogs": maybe it was worse. I know aging is always a factor; still, I think the illness was the cause of his decline: he wasn't the same player afterwards.

[@stephenwodz7593]

Your research is excellent.

[@jaredbrinkman3343]

wow this channel has to blow up soon. great videi

[@tgags123HD]

@@jaredbrinkman3343 Thank you :)

[@Anthony-rt5oj]

My fav players of the 1870s Ross Barnes, Levi Meyerle, Lipman Pike, Cap Anson, Joe Start, Jim Devlin, Bill Craver, George Hall, Count Sensenderfer, Bub McAtee, Charlie Hodes, Paul Hines, Oscar Bielaski, Albert Goodwill Spalding, George and Harry Wright, etc etc etc

[@marcstevens8576]

Harry Wright once lived a block away from me & they recently destroyed the house/barn to put up a condo without erecting any kind of plaque for him. Wasn't into Spaulding, as after him not being able to perfect the new curve ball & went into his (still existing) Sporting Goods Company, it was Him that started the myth of Doubleday inventing base ball to make it look as an All-American Sport. Of course, Abner, himself, most likely never saw a base ball game.......

[@hyjinks1]

fair foul hitting is so interesting because if it still existed today who knows how it would've evolved and gotten optimized over the years.

[@Lyrici17]

Thank you for introducing me to one of my new favorite players! Great video...... Thanks!

[@sportsfan4646]

Great video. Was not expecting to hear my hometown London, Ontario.

[@kevinvilmont6061]

Can you please do a video answering the question? why do the Hartford dark Blues wear are red uniforms?

[@CadChamberlain]

And then came Dan Brouthers, who dominated from 1881 to 1894. From my own judgment, he was a top 5 hitter in all of baseball 12 times. The only players with more seasons as a top 5 hitter: Hank Aaron, Barry Bonds, Babe Ruth, and Ty Cobb.

[@kevinvilmont6061]

All seriousness, there's no way they would've tolerated Angel Hernandez. He would have been fired like any other person who's crappy at their job

[@cb4460]

Extremely high quality video

[@nacoran]

Fair fouls might be an interesting way to get more baserunners. I'm not saying do it full on, but it might be fun to see a spot half way down the line that you could try to hook it around. Play around with its location a bit to find the sweet spot.

[@scadooshy5161]

Dope fun fact kinda vid, had no idea this happened.

[@kevinvilmont6061]

Barry Barnes 6 times. I know his head was twice as it should've been but there's never been a combination of juiced up power with that batter eye. Super freak

[@henrywallacesghost5883]

Seeing the list and the Babe has almost twice the amount as Bonds and Williams says it all.

[@tgags123HD]

@@henrywallacesghost5883 Is Babe Ruth underrated? 🤔

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

_Babe has almost twice the amount as Bonds and Williams says it all_ Body fat? I'd say more than twice... Of Williams + Bonds

[@kenw2225]

Babe wasn't nearly the batter as bonds and williams. Also, williams missed 5 seasons of his prime due to war/military service. He is second best batter, after bonds,. Ruth is like #15.

[@henrywallacesghost5883]

​@@kenw2225I think that Williams was the best hitter but the Babe at 15 is crazy. Bonds on roids maybe the best, natural Bonds, maybe top 10.

[@mikebronicki8264]

Babe Ruth and Ted Williams were baseball's greatest hitters. Ruth was also a near-great pitcher. Yes, 15 has meaning. Ruth on steroids would gave hit 100 HRs.

[@lordxelizor]

The biggest HOF casualty of the 10 years rule

[@kevinvilmont6061]

.272 average? He could hit leadoff for all but like two teams today with that average

[@LLPOF]

Great video. Never stop! 🙂

[@ericneff9908]

Fantastic video!

[@doddsino]

It's absurd that Ross isn't in the HOF. Pundits state that he was only good due to an outdated rule, something I can argue with a large number of HOFers. The point is that before a new rule was implemented, he was able to perform at a level no one else was able to. He didn't have some adverse advantage...so it's silly to not have him in there.

[@Matricks513]

Great video. I do think a period would serve better in the title than a semicolon just because people are afraid of semicolons. Learned a lot though. I had previously thought the overhand pitch was the worst rule change in baseball history but now i know about the fair foul hit.

[@tgags123HD]

@@Matricks513 I love semicolons though

[@mr.dislike3285]

Beautiful video

[@tgags123HD]

@@mr.dislike3285 Not really living up to your name there, Mr. Dislike. But thank you. :)

[@petestevesreal]

great video. I think that the clumps of text brought it down a little but it was still enjoyable

[@petestevesreal]

not the baseball reference pages but the newspaper excerpts and such

[@tgags123HD]

@@petestevesreal Appreciate the feedback. Definitely a fair criticism. I thought the same when I was editing it to be honest, but I wasn't sure what else to put on screen for certain parts. Not like there's any footage of Barnes playing lol.

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

@@tgags123HD Well, at least you weren't yelling at me Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[@smoceany9478]

i enjoyed having it, but would appreciate highlighting of the most important text

[@rvaneand326]

I enjoyed pausing to read the clumps of text

[@tonydagostino6158]

How many hits did he get the day Sitting Bull pitched a shut-out vs the Cavalry?

[@ibperson7765]

Cool. Only I don’t understand why it would be difficult to call fair foul based on that prior definition. seems like it would be much easier.

[@tgags123HD]

Since a lot of fair-foul hitters bunted or tried to swing down at the ball, the ball often landed very near home plate. Hard for umpires to tell exactly where it landed, and whether it first touched the ground in fair territory or foul territory.

[@ibperson7765]

@@tgags123HD Im sure youre correct, but I still cant see it. Seems staring carefully at where the ball first hits would be pretty successful umping, even close to the plate. Oh well doesnt matter. And thanks for the reply.

[@EricKoonitsky-s1d]

Only one amateur umpire and not always or even typically positioned behind the plate at the time. I get your point though. Determining if a screamer down the line crossed the base in fair territory seems way harder than deciding if it ever touched fair territory. And maybe it was. Everything was way more difficult to call back then, to the point we can hardly imagine it because of our biases.

[@ibperson7765]

@@EricKoonitsky-s1d oh cool text bro. Makes a lot of sense

[@ibperson7765]

@@EricKoonitsky-s1d Lol i meant comment not text

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

I hope my injection of humor was helpful My conclusion is that I give you, tgags123HD, and your 2 last videos nine thumbs up Though I wonder what kind of name tgags123HD is for a human being

[@tgags123HD]

@@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes Strange name for a person, but at 15-years-old I thought it was an awesome name for KZbin channel, even though the 480p I was uploading in at the time was definitely not "HD."

[@dodiad]

@@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes It’s tgags’ name, sir.

[@Bakes14]

13:07 pressure something you put in your tires.

[@shaolinotter]

using super mario music in a video about a baseball player from 150 years ago. internet!

[@DAcheekO]

Such an interesting video great job

[@SirLuciferVampiro]

He's always in my MLB the Show Franchise mode, amongst other Legends of the same era. I always created those guys for my team, so I know a bit about him. I got a quick question for you.....Are you sure he hit the 1st hr in NL history??....The reason why I ask is because according to the book I have, it was a guy by the name of Ezra Ballou Sutton who hit the first homerun. I think he also hit the 2nd hr in NL history later in the same game as well as made the 1st official error.....

[@tgags123HD]

@@SirLuciferVampiro I'm not sure of anything lol. But every article I've read has said that Barnes hit the first one on May 2, 1876. There is a Chicago Tribune newspaper article from the following day describing the home run, and I believe I included a screenshot of it in the video, but the article does not actually state that it was the first one in NL history. Upon further investigation, Ezra Sutton was the first person to hit a home run in the National Association in 1871, so maybe that's what the book was referring to.

[@SirLuciferVampiro]

@@tgags123HD Thanks for clearing that up.....Errrrrr, by any chance, do you know who was the first positional player to win triple crown? I have conflicting report on that as well, lol....

[@tgags123HD]

@@SirLuciferVampiro Assuming we're talking about the hitting Triple Crown and not the pitching Triple Crown, my initial thought was Tip O'Neill in 1887, but apparently he was the second to do it. Paul Hines did it first, in 1878. When you Google it, Rogers Hornsby is the first player to come up, which is odd. I initially thought it was because he was the first to do it after RBIs became an official stat in 1920, but I think the actual reason is Google AI misinterpreting information from Wikipedia. The Wikipedia article indicates that Hornsby was the first player with multiple Triple Crowns, so Google AI sees "first" and "Tripls Crown" and spits Hornsby out as the answer.

[@SirLuciferVampiro]

@@tgags123HD Ooooook, my book actually got that one right...Thanks.....Incidentally, Hines is also on my team on every MLB the Show, lol. Something about those pioneer guys that fascinate me even more than Legends like Ruth and Mays.....Ciao....

[@kevinvilmont6061]

Tony Gwynn. Ichiro . They had Ross type bat control.

[@alexw0310]

I think you've found a KZbin niche. If you enjoyed making videos like this one and the Devlin video, then please make more of them

[@tgags123HD]

@@alexw0310 The Devlin video was supposed to be a one-and-done, but the overwhelmingly positive response has definitely motivated me to make more!

[@vranthis]

11 people with ops 200+ ruth did 11 times...what the heck ?!

[@BoltTheEmolga]

Is it bad that it took me like 5 different tries to read the thumbnail correctly

[@naciremasti]

Did this guy ever hit a baseball that wasnt throw underhanded? Wasn't it 1884 when overhand throwing was legalized?

[@WilliamPerry-w4e]

Yes

[@WilliamPerry-w4e]

Well, not only underhand, but where you wanted it. I believe it was '85 when overhanded pitching started being allowed.

[@naciremasti]

@@WilliamPerry-w4e so, he didn't hit underhanded pitches. Yet he's being compared to players that never had the opportunity to call their pitches, and were thrown underhanded baseballs. Makes sense.

[@EricKoonitsky-s1d]

No. He explains when comparing Ross's defensive stats to Ozzie and Brooks. Everyone was hitting underhanded pitching, not just Ross Barnes. And his value compared to his contemporaries was then compared to say, Babe Ruth's value compared to Ruth's contemporaries. Of course it's a different game. The failure to accurately adjust for such changes is why the Hall of Fame elected so many hitters from the 1930's and people spent my childhood crying that nobody went 300 innings any more. It's much more revealing to compare levels of dominance rather than raw numbers or "talent". That's the comparison being made here.

[@danielhamilton1130]

What was ross baines jersey like

[@ryanthompsonthompson820]

Too bad baseball did not respect the rules of the day. Tip O'Neil would still have the single season batting average of .492.

[@lukario26]

Why I oughta ahh player

[@puckerings]

Barnes fell ill in 1877, which sapped his strength and limited his playing time. Blaming the rule change for his decline is untenable since the illness coincided chronologically. How did you determine that it was the rule change and not the illness which caused his decline?

[@tgags123HD]

@@puckerings Did you watch the whole video?

[@puckerings]

@@tgags123HD Yes you spend the whole video talking about the fair-foul hit and the White Stockings in general, and then throw in his serious illness at the end. The way you present it - that in additional to playing poorly in 1877, he ALSO missed games due to illness, suggests you miss the point that his poor play likely RESULTED FROM the illness.

[@tgags123HD]

@@puckerings Copy and paste from the script, since apparently you missed this part: "According to Schaefer and other sources, the illness had a permanent effect on Barnes, and this, rather than the rule change, is the reason for his sudden poor play after being so dominant for six seasons. This explanation would help to explain how he sharply declined not only offensively after 1876, but also defensively. His fielding run totals were negative in each of his final three seasons, and he led the league in errors committed by a shortstop in 1881. The elimination of the fair-foul definitely could not have caused that. In all likelihood, both the illness and the rule change played a part in Barnes’s fall from grace. Looking at other prominent fair-foul hitters, as listed by Schaefer, George Wright’s OPS+ dropped from 136 in 1876 to 96 in 1877, and as we’ve already discussed, Dave Eggler’s dropped from 108 to 68. Levi Meyerle, on the other hand, only had a 12-point decrease, from 162 in 1876 to 150 in 1877, and Davy Force’s OPS+ actually increased from 1876 to 1877. Unfortunately, in Barnes’s case it is impossible to know how much of an effect the rule change had on him. Two variables changed at the same time, and there is no way to determine how much of an impact each one of those variables had."

[@dodiad]

How is this man not in the Hall of Fame?

[@tgags123HD]

@@dodiad Fantastic question. The actual answer to what I'm assuming was a mostly rhetorical question is that he didn't play 10 seasons, so he is ineligible for considering for induction as a player. Kinda. Addie Joss was still inducted despite only playing 9 seasons, so I don't see why they couldn't waive the rule again. There are other players from his era that didn't meet the 10-year requirement that were inducted as "pioneers" rather than players (ex: Al Spalding). Most of them contributed to the game off the field more than Barnes did, though. Still, it's criminal that he's not in the Hall.

[@dodiad]

@ Yeah, I knew when I wrote it that he wouldn’t meet the ten-season threshold. But that raises all kinds of questions. Do his five seasons in the National Association count? If so, that gives him nine, and as you say they waived the rule for Addie Joss’s nine seasons. But I would also argue that they should allow some leniency for guys like Barnes who straddle the start of the organized professional era. He did play three seasons for the Rockford Forest Citys before the inception of the NA, so that should count for something. He was the NA’s premier hitter for its entire run, and recognized as such at the time. Influenced the rulebook. Arguably the key piece in the Boston-to-Chicago “Big Four,” perhaps even more so than Al Spalding, the top pitcher of the day. Other early stars overlooked by the HOF: Dickey Pearce, Levi Meyerle, Dick McBride, Davy Force, Lipman Pike, Cupid Childs, Fred “Sure Shot” Dunlap, Pebbly Jack Glasscock, Parisian Bob Caruthers, Tony Mullane (The Apollo of the Box). And don’t forget Fleet Walker, the Jackie Robinson of the 19th century. But to me the one really inexcusable omission is Jim Creighton of the Brooklyn Excelsiors. Of course not eligible under the ten-year rule, but surely there must be a place for the world’s first professional baseball player.

[@elizidele2916]

Do a video on Dan Brouthers next

[@tgags123HD]

Great player

[@ErickOberholtzer]

7:13 Brooklyn Atlantics went 2-42...

[@kevinvilmont6061]

How dare you say Ross was a better fielder than Brooks Robinson!

[@PtolemyJones]

Huh, no Tony Gwynn, I would have lost that bet.

[@nathanjm000]

Offense actually went up between 1876 and 1877 somehow

[@tgags123HD]

@@nathanjm000 I believe in Schaefer's article he mentions that the NL switched to a livelier ball in 1877, so that's likely why.

[@kevinvilmont6061]

I did not like the fact that Ross was such a showoff not using a glove

[@yitzhak3379]

at the time most players didn't wear gloves.

[@smoceany9478]

thats my goat

[@VioletDeliriums]

Considering how most of the great batters your discuss are all ancient, maybe the pitchers back then were not as dominant, even if there were a few standouts. If it was a "hitter's game" back then, it might be why Babe Ruth was seen as more valuable as a batter than a pitcher. At some point, pitchers must have become much better, making them less hittable...Maybe the moral of the story is that it really isn't a good idea to try to speculate who the greatest baseball player is after all, and maybe we should just enjoy the game and the players we like to watch instead of worrying about all the stats and comparisons. I mean, this video didn't suddenly make me a Ross Barnes fan.

[@ShyGuyLoveSongs]

Found out he was my distant cousin on my moms side

[@bperry573]

Did they NEVER strike out? check those numbers!

[@LordTeaboBaggins]

When Barnes played, pitchers were required to both throw underhand, and to the location the batter wanted it. So yes, strikeouts were super rare

[@bperry573]

@@LordTeaboBaggins truly appreciate the knowledge 🙏🫡

[@WilliamPerry-w4e]

During that era, it took 9 balls for a walk, and 8 strikes for a strikeout. You could call for a high or low pitch, and even could watch a pitch or two go by before being held to try to hit. The idea of the pitcher being a leading agent in getting batters out wasn't quite the way the game was played then. He was much more of a facilitator than dominator.

[@bperry573]

@@WilliamPerry-w4e yeah, after the last comment, I did a deep dive on early baseball and was fascinated to learn about the struggles to even out over powered pitching to over powered hitting. It was truly a cool thing to learn after being a baseball fan all my life.

[@cozmecs5051]

at first I thought this was by foolish baseball. I assume thats what you were going for haha

[@tgags123HD]

@@cozmecs5051 He's definitely a big inspiration

[@bobmessier5215]

As the first star in MLB, he should be in the HOF. However, he's not.

[@hshaughnessy17]

I argu that he wasn't a great hitter. He was a guy that was smarter than the other players in his era. In his era, you called the pitch. You told the pitcher high or low. The players would call for low pitches and bunt the ball off of home plate into foul territory. Home plate was cast iron back then so the ball would travel a good distance. Barnes would call for low pitches and then take a full swing and smash the ball way into foul territory. That is why he got so many more doubles and triples than everyone else. As soon as they made him actually hit the ball into the field of play, he was very mediocre.

[@isletoflangerhans8281]

Barry Barnes.

[@danielhamilton1130]

Uhhh ross barnes

[@jak1165]

Ross Barnes > Barry Bonds

[@tgags123HD]

@@jak1165 Let's not get carried away...

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

@@tgags123HD Last remark, but only because I have this terrible compulsion to think I'm a comedian _Let's not get carried away..._ How else would he move?

[@ElCrab]

Everyone knows Ross Barnes was juicing.

[@scottl.1568]

Whut

[@skylarkportraitstudio]

The video is an example of 'number blindness'. The game of baseball, as it was played in 1871 through 1876, is not comparable in any reasonable manner to the game that is played today. The numbers don't mean same things.

[@Choicexband]

GOAT Hitler!???😧😧😧

[@DannyJKay]

How about telling what OPS means?! WTF!

[@tgags123HD]

@@DannyJKay Literally the first 10 seconds of the video

[@BoBensen-o3b]

The National Association has never been considered a Major League. Never. None of Barnes' numbers matter from 1871 to 1875. None.

[@tgags123HD]

@@BoBensen-o3b The National Association is to the National League as the Anaheim Angels are to the Los Angeles Angels. Same thing, different name.

[@bb1111116]

Misleading title. Ross Barnes got sick with malaria like symptoms.

[@oatechaosincycles]

😂 The worst player froum our era is way bettrr that the best player of that era. Apples to oranges man.

[@tgags123HD]

@@oatechaosincycles Wait, you're telling me sports change over time? That's crazy. I had no idea. If only there were stats that allowed us to compare players to other players of the same era, and see how much they stood out from their contemporaries. That way instead of trying to make direct comparisons between players that played 100 years apart, we could instead compare how good one player was compared to his contemporaries with how good another player was compared to his contemporaries. If I were to invent stats like this, I would put a "plus" sign at the end of them. OPS+, ERA+, wRC+, the possibilities are endless!

[@lufknuht5960]

Clickbait annoyance. "Baseball broke Ross" -- I started listening & heard NOTHING about it before I just gave up.

[@tgags123HD]

Maybe you should watch the whole video? It wouldn't be a very good story if I told you how it ended in the first two minutes.

[@b.t.2796]

OPS and WAR talk is boring. C ya

[@tgags123HD]

@@b.t.2796 Your loss

[@thewkovacs316]

u stat heads have ruined the game

[@tgags123HD]

@@thewkovacs316 What an odd thing to comment on a video about a guy that retired 140 years ago.

[@hogg4229]

It kills me how you think fielding percentage isn’t an indicator of a good fielder today. SMH.

[@tgags123HD]

@@hogg4229 Player A fields 100 balls. He is given an error (based on a scorer's opinion) on 5 of those plays. He has a .950 FLD%. During the same amount of time player B fields 150 balls. He was able to get to 50 more balls than fielder A, not because he had more opportunities, but because his range and reaction time are better. He is able to get to balls that player A is not. He is given an error on 10 of those plays. His FLD% is .933. Despite having a lower fielding percentage, Player B was responsible for 45 more outs than Player A. Who is the better fielder?

[@sporer_]

With all due respect, it’s just not valuable. Errors are arbitrary trash that are rarely called with any consistency and not all errors are created equally. Jeter never made errors bc he couldn’t get to anything while plenty of elite SS have higher error totals bc their range allowed to get to balls that many others couldn’t so even thought they make errors on some of em, you still prefer them to the statue at short

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

@@tgags123HD I think a part of the problem, generally speaking, is that out of all the modern (post-Moneyball) stats, defensive stats are the hardest to understand Well, they're the hardest for me, anyway

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

@@tgags123HD _Who is the better fielder?_ Francisco Lindor

[@tgags123HD]

@@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes I agree. Defense is a hard thing to quantify.

[@MrMaelstrom07]

11:50 I umpired a couple 1865 games and let me tell you, this fair/foul business is TOUGH! Gimme 1877 any day!