Rough Vocal Effects Revisited | #4 Further Updates

[@T-Bore]

Das Beispiel des "Saliva Rattles" hat mich komplett gekillt 😂 Würde mir auch ein ganzes A-cappella-Album in diesem Stil anhören. Danke für die großartige Videoreihe auf jeden Fall!

[@StudioWestLessons]

Great video! So entertaining and educational Toni, awesome work :) Glad to be of help with my endoscopy footage. Looking forward to our collaboration! -Gregory West

[@lolekj2863]

Man, all those examples of the rough vocal effects being used in different songs is priceless! (from your site) Thanks for sharing your hard work with us, this series is amazing.

[@iolairmuinnmalachybromham3103]

This video has explained why I haven’t been able remove enough air from my rattle sound to add in true fold phonation without losing the “rattle”, and why it also hasn’t felt connected to a tongue-root constriction (like blues growl) or constriction in the larynx (like a squall): I’ve been rattling the epiglottis against the pharyngeal wall rather than the arytenoids. Awesome stuff as always Toni!

[@ExcessDenied0]

I love Toni and all of his fans and this kind of comment is exactly why.

[@ExcessDenied0]

I always learn so much from you, Toni. No one else I know goes this deep into researching and understanding rough vocal effects, and the scientifically-minded criticism you employ to reach increased understanding and clarity even in your own explorations is both fruitful and admirable. You're a blessing to all of us.

[@faselblaDer3te]

The final form of the vocal effects continuum will be a 7-dimensional fractal with diverging time lines

[@JoyboysDream]

The fucking monster-noises at 3:36.... Will Ramos would be so proud :D Holy Jesus

[@iVoceiVoce]

Wow Toni, this is reaaaaally amazing, I can't believe what I've just watched , this is pure gold! Thank you!🙏

[@martin.lorenz]

Outstandingly good video analysis of the physiology of these sound effects.

[@DestroyerMariko]

Woah the episode 4 stuff :O makes more sense now and I can kinda feel vibrations in different spots with my hands when I check, that's wild! Omg the episode 5 bit explains so much about my false cord journey too, and your explanation finally got my brain actually grasping all those different tongue placement things!! eeee!! 🤩 Episode 6's splitting is still waaayyy beyond anything I'm gonna even attempt rn, holy wow O_O; but that eyeball replay zoom-in made me lol XD Woah so finally we have confirmation that inhales are not so bad after all? What does one need to watch for to make sure it's "done right" and not harmful? This was such an awesome video and series! I did have fun and I did learn a lot, and I understand a lot more than I used to even if I don't understand it all. Thanks so much!!

[@ToniLinke]

With inhales, it seems the main challenge is to not collapse your posture, so the lungs and torso in general can work just as well as for exhale singing/screaming. Other than that, the same things as for exhale fry (or more precise, irregular creaking) apply, so: not too much air flow, not too much volume etc.

[@DestroyerMariko]

@@ToniLinke Sweet, thanks so much! I might start experimenting a bit more with that in mind ^_^

[@rawclaw.x1]

Such an insane video, thanks for sharing all this knowledge

[@FreedomForAll1-]

Thank you so much for these videos. I really love your approach to singing as well as your voice (especially your vibrato). Any chance you can make an informative video on vibrato and how to 'relax' into it?

[@ToniLinke]

Thanks! I don't fully understand vibrato yet. That is, I have my categorization of different vibratos and I've taught it before but I don't specialize in it as much as, for example, rough vocal effects. I recommend the CVT content on vibrato though, they use a very similar categorization and have some exercises on how to get it :)

[@FreedomForAll1-]

@@ToniLinke Appreciate the honesty and the recommendation! thanks 🙏

[@musicaccounting8530]

That was wonderful to watch and learn, thank you toni!!!!!❤️❤️❤️🤘

[@ryansmallwood1178]

I've watched this series a few times now and find it extremely helpful. I'm curious if you've kept an eye on some of the vocal effects used by the beatbox scene, I know in one video you mention beatboxing and discuss sounds made with the lips and the tongue, but they also use a bunch of interesting effects that use laryngeal configurations as well. As far as I can tell what beatboxers call "Throat Bass" can involve False Fold Distortion and/or Arytenoid Rattle and what they call "Chest Bass" I think uses Epiglottic Rattle (they also use this with falsetto quite often, which I believe is a thing you mentioned as possible, but weren't sure the uses of, in an older video.) A number of beatboxers also use Polyphonic Splitting as a vocal effect. There's some other effects used that I'm less sure of like "Vibration Bass", Stitch's 626 effect, Hard Bass (sometimes called Demon Bass or Evil Bass) and for inward sounds "Inward Bass" and D-low's variant of "Inward Bass", which might be just an inward version of some outward effects, but they sound somewhat different. It'd be interesting if you ever got a chance to look at some of those other effects as well as some of the ways beatboxers use certain effects differently from other kinds of vocalists.

[@ToniLinke]

Yup, I've had conversations with beatboxers such as John Galusha and Craig Simonetti about exactly that! But I believe that beatboxing experts make way better videos about that than I can, so my content is more focused on rock & metal. :)

[@ryansmallwood1178]

@@ToniLinke That's really cool to hear! I don't I've come across any info on beatbox techniques as systematic as your videos, but maybe in time someone will be able to make something available. If you ever find a good opportunity to do a collaboration with any beatboxers who can do some techniques, I'd be really interested to hear your thoughts.

[@launtschuannfoa9122]

Thx Toni...... So great material.... ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@-xlntc91x-]

Super interesting! I always though inhale screams - even if done without initial harm- would take a toll on the voice in the long run. Those tunnel throats are absolutely brutal. Has any artist that you know of used splitting in a song? The hyper-compressed one sounds super cool and strong enough to use it in a musical context.

[@ToniLinke]

Yeah, check out the sound example PDF on my website for examples of Splitting (and all other effects)!

[@marcelloestemiele]

thank very much once again Toni, this is so helpful. One question: is true vocal folds grunt dangerous? isn't that similar to a pushed fry scream/creaking? cause it sounds like an air leak

[@ToniLinke]

It feels surprisingly light! I think if you overpushed on volume, it would get unsustainable, but 1) you'd feel that limit quite well and 2) it doesn't really sound much different anyway compared to medium volume, so there's no real reason to overpush it anyway. With pushed fry scream, we kind of get a different character, so it's more of a dilemma situation.

[@marcelloestemiele]

@@ToniLinke

[@progolos]

Thank you for such great reference material, but there is a much easier way to explain all these sounds by means of flow-pressure-structure interaction. No matter which part of your vocal tract vibrates, there are always regions of regularity and irregularity on the pressure-flow continuum. You can even imitate all this roughness with your tongue, but the speech sounds will be compromised.

[@sunsundks3891]

So cool ^^

[@ryansmallwood1178]

Do you know if all the supraglottal effects can be done inward or is it limited to some of them? I’ve been wondering what causes the “Inward Bass” in beatboxing terms, for a while people thought it was the inward version of “Chest Bass” which I think is an Aryepiglottic Growl, but some beatboxers felt it was slightly different. For me, when I found the “Inward Bass” and tried to do the same thing outward it sounds more like Arytenoid Rattle. If that’s correct then maybe some beatboxers find it by trying to do an Aryepiglottic Growl inwards because it also involves the Arytenoid cartilage if I’m understanding right. I haven’t heard anyone do a throat bass or pure kargyraa like false fold sound inwards. Do you known if it's possible to use the false folds inwards or maybe just not with that kind of sound?

[@ToniLinke]

I think it's limited, for example I cannot imagine an inward false fold distortion. But maybe more things are possible than I can imagine?

[@ryansmallwood1178]

@@ToniLinke Thanks, I appreciate the response!

[@cp3675]

​@@ToniLinkewhat raspy singing is rod Stewart singing in?

[@ToniLinke]

@@cp3675 false fold distortion, usually with a bit of push :)

[@cp3675]

@@ToniLinke thank you

[@Mike-gz8gy]

Gold

[@matttake4852]

So properly done inhales are totally safe? I've done those for quite a long time in the past with 0 issues and stopped because a lot of people told me that I was ruining my voice. Now I'm mad

[@ToniLinke]

I'd say yes, they are safe! Personally I find them a bit impractical, but if you've done them without any issues, that's a good sign you can continue to do so!

[@musicaccounting8530]

Hi! I notice that some people have very tight sounding rattles almost to the point where its pretty much perfeclty smooth. While others have more "rolly" rattles. I thought maybe this is before more air pressure is being let from the folds while maybe theres a smaller amount of constriction on the aryrenoids cartilage, do you agree?

[@musicaccounting8530]

*Because

[@ToniLinke]

Rolly rattles have low subharmonics, so the arytenoids vibrating more slowly (and the difference between the frequencies of arytenoid vibration and true fold vibration being very big), whereas more tight rattles have high subharmonics, so the arytenoids vibrating faster/at a higher frequency that is closer to the frequency of the vocal fold vibration.

[@musicaccounting8530]

ohhh!! that makes a lot of sense!! thank you!!

[@Jacksonnnnnnnnnnnnn]

🙏

[@faselblaDer3te]

Which endoscope did you buy? Affiliate link maybe? ;-)

[@ToniLinke]

The endoscope is not available on Amazon anymore, but you can just buy a cheap USB endoscope (maybe 20-30€) and hope for it to have a good resolution! The worst that can happen is that it looks a bit worse than my footage, and you might have to invest into a more expensive one later. But the main challenge about getting high quality pictures is in practicing the endoscopy without throwing up anyway :)

[@Berganon]

Do you know what cause a true fold grunt then ?

[@ToniLinke]

The high airflow and pressure has the vocal folds vibrate irregularily. It's kind of like a high airflow version of creaking!

[@Berganon]

@@ToniLinke and you would consider this sustainable? Also I might have missed it or can't remember it it's been a while since I've seen the first ones but, how do you define the "pushed" in many of your catégorisations? Also thank you I think it might have helped pinpoint troubles I had with students on twangy distorsion 🙏

[@ToniLinke]

@@Berganon yes, as long as it's not pushed, it's sustainable! I define push as excess airflow and pressure, in episode 2 of this series. So there's a fine line between "high airflow and pressure" and "too much airflow and pressure" - they're easy to distinguish though: one feels comfortable, the other one doesn't!

[@Berganon]

@@ToniLinke yeah well that makes obvious sense. Thank you for the quick answer.