RPG Retro Review : Undermountain - Part 2

[@xabun]

when I first played "The Eye of the Beholder" back in 1991 on my Amiga 500 I had NO CLUE that I wasn't just playing a random video game, but it was a small tiny part of a highly developed immense world called faerun .... when I later discovered that the city Waterdeep and the Beholder Xanathar REALLY existed in that world I was sold ... When almost a decade later I heard about Baldur's Gate and then Baldur's Gate 2 I was sucked into this whole world so badly that I literally shut myself off from the outside world for a couple of weeks and months ... until now I'm a huge huge RPG and AD&D fan.

[@mitchc6059]

Your comments about the spell plague and 4th edition in general condences why I walked away from D&D.WotC literally and figuratively destroyed the Realms and I've only recently returned,although covid has postponed that too. I never personally ran Undermountain,although I always wanted to.Me and my friends found it sheer size intimidating.Thanks for a great review and I hope you detail more FR material in the future.

[@uncledarren4262]

Dragon Mountain, into Under mountain (all of it), into Menzoberanzan, into Holloworld! What a campain set!!!!!

[@andywilson3839]

Well done mate. Takes me back 20 years. Regards, Andy from Yorkshire UK.

[@dn420zanlog]

Id make Hallaster a lich instead of just dead

[@timandshannon03]

Same! In the PDF Conversion, it literally says "Treat as Lich"

[@sunsin1592]

Funny; after wrapping up a campaign over the weekend and not doing much designing the past couple months I was casting about thinking about what to do next. For some reason, I started thinking about Undermountain, which I never owned. Now I'm bidding on a complete used boxed set and planning on getting the POD of Part II. I like having good maps and a framework to build on. I think we'll use it for Labyrinth Lord, since the new edition will be dropping soon.

[@spkt0r]

Halaster Blackcloak for me was just as important as any of the main "Mary Sues" of the Forgotten Realms settings like Elminster, Khelben, Sisters and so on. My players (I ran Undermountain) did feel for the Mad Mage when they discovered his madness was the mountain itself and after the module Stardock they came up with a plan to try to help his madeness. The plot for (for my game) Undermountain, is that Halaster needed sacrifices to contain undermountain's magic which is why Blackstaff and others never tryed to stop Halaster. I never understood why the supposedly awesome chosen of Mystra, (which fix problems of unstable magic) never had the large magic stones to go into Undermountain and either take Halaster's place or help him contain it's magic.

[@keithgaspard9950]

I'm loving all these retro reviews and Undermountain has a special place in my heart. Thanks and please keep up the good work!

[@keithgaspard9950]

To add to this, would you be willing to do a review of the new 5e Undermountain campaign? I want to run Undermountain using 5e but I want to incorporate information form the other editions too. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks!!

[@keithgaspard9950]

Actually, JK, I see you already did this. Thank you and please stop reading my mind....

[@BRK5813]

Haven't played since '85, but you bring back a lot of fun memories... Thanks! And keep it up, love these classic module reviews!!

[@killerklavvenn]

I got the Undermountain box set when it came out as well as Volos Guide to Waterdeep, (and a tun of D&D, AD&D and AD&D2e original modules and supplement books) two of my most prized supplements of D&D. Because of Life stepping in, I skipped 3.5 and 4 and now fully into 5e, AD&D and AD&D2e are still my favorite as far as (money spent and time playing) books, modules, supplements, video games, nostalgia and set up. For me the biggest head scratcher in 5e is why they went from (HD)Hit Dice to (CR)Challenge Rating the latter being all over the map as figuring the proper encounters because some creatures are a low CR that should be higher and some are a higher CR than they should be, I like the HD system better, CR is the THAC0 of 5e.

[@34kbro]

The art in this video was A+. Well done.

[@SimonAshworthWood]

When my party comes back up the well in the Yawning Portal, we'll be a lot heavier to pull up than when we went down, cos of all the treasure we'll have with us. :D

[@captcorajus]

That may be true, but your minds will never be the same as they become twisted by the horrors witnessed in Halaster's wicked halls. :)

[@SimonAshworthWood]

@@captcorajus We'll go to a cleric of Lathander therapist, if we need to. :P

[@ricknorton9879]

You do a great job, and players like myself from yesteryear really appreciate it.

[@captcorajus]

Wow, thank you so much for saying so!

[@jeremywebster7912]

Fantastic piece. I never knew that they'd developed this dungeon so much over the years.

[@animorph17]

Worth noting, in the early books it states that Hallaster has "Died" several times before, and that every time people think they killed him ... someone keeps showing up to reset the traps or pull in monsters. And people still keep seeing Hallaster. Pretty much an inn to have everyone say he's dead, and yet all signs and evidence suggest otherwise. After all how on earth would the tunnels get wilder when he stops maintaining them?

[@captcorajus]

I agree, that its a major plot hole that WOTC never addressed.... however, now that the second sundering is done, and they've basically set the FR back to how it was before the Time of Troubles, anything is possible. In my own 5E campaign, I solved the problem like this: Previously, in the Novel, "Eliminster in Hell" Mystra cured Halaster of his madness for trying to help save Elminster. I decided THAT to do that, she had to remove the 'insane' part of his soul, and then cast it to the weave. Of course, when the weave was destroyed, and Mystra was killed, that part was lost. THUS, after Halaster was killed and his soul torn asunder there was still that piece in the weave, but it couldn't return to a clone under the normal perimeters because it was only a partial soul. What's worse, even that part was lost when the weave was destroyed. Fast forward to the current year DR 1491, Mystra has returned, and the weave has been restored... AND that little piece of soul lies there dormant, lost, no way to find its path to a clone body... but wait, Halaster had a back up plan. In the event his soul could not find its way to his clone due to some enemy's attempt to trap it, he created a 'Return the Soul' spell, cast the energy into it, and left it as a contingency in one of the upper rooms of Undermountain in the form of a letter that would only appear if he died and his soul did not return to his clone body. So, the heroes, while exploring Undermountain, go into the "Letter room', and there are a bunch of wadded up papers, torn papers, piles and piles of them. On the walls there is graffiti, "Don't waste your time'.. 'its a fake'... 'it doesn't work'.. etc. There is a table, and on the table is a letter which reads, "Oh, dear me, something terrible has happened. If you are reading this it means I'm Dead! If you would be so kind as to cast a third level spell into this letter... any would do, but let me suggest for your sake you avoid fireball... though that would work as well. My soul apparently can't find my clone. Would you be so kind as to help? I promise you rich rewards of course, having a powerful arch mage in your debt can't be a bad thing right? Thanks in advance, "Halaster Blackcloak'. Of course, previously, the spell wouldn't have worked because Halaster's soul was lost in the weave.. which is why all the other letters were cast aside by other adventurers over the century... but NOW it will work if only someone would come along that would just cast the spell instead of listening to the wall graffiti with claims to the contrary. My PCs totally went with it, and cast the spell. Halaster's disembodied head appeared, thanked them for their service, and gifted them with some pretty cool magic items. Then he teleported them to a random location on level three. That Halaster... such a stinker. Bwha ha ha!

[@chickensoundedmexicanyt9732]

We've just started playing Waterdeep:dungeon of the mad mage and its awesome :D

[@SimonAshworthWood]

Those Drow in the picture don't seem to be wearing any armour to protect their hamstrings. No wonder Halaster & his gang were able to defeat them. :D

[@matteoboldizzoni9870]

Nice and informative video thank you. I have owned the 2 original boxed sets since they came out in early 90s and used them in my campaigns but I never had skullport material and dungeon crawl stuff..

[@TenguBE]

Looks like undermountain is back in 5e. HYPED!

[@captcorajus]

Saw that! Hyped too!

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

You can't keep a good dungeon down.

[@billhenry7213]

Because WOTC is severely lacking in creativity in writing and artwork so they rehash old modules rather than thinking of their own stories.

[@timandshannon03]

I had Undermountain 1 and 2 back in the day, and still have Undermountain 2! I haven't picked up Mad Mage yet for 5e, but I am!!!

[@thethoughtcriminal8786]

Thanks for the heads up captorajus, this definitely sounds like a campaign worth running and I would have probably over looked it if you had not brought it up.

[@burbigasmurgnakobaki586]

High quality video as usual, thanks for the upload

[@briancline7349]

I think there is such a thing as a dungeon being too big, so large it’s map becomes tedious, and I think that describes this lol. It seems unlikely they can keep the rooms interesting enough to keep the place interesting. Then again I haven’t played it so maybe I’m judging it prematurely.

[@captcorajus]

You're not wrong. If you try to play this out like a regular dungeon going from room to room and slogging it out, yes, its going to wear thin real soon. However, that's not how you play undermountain. YOu NEED waterdeep also. They go together. There's as many adventures to be had in the city as there are in the dungeon. Adventures in UM can lead to adventures and intrigue in the city, and vice-versa. If you play it that way, you can have a campaign that runs for years. Mine ran for about 10 years.

[@COMICBOOKJEDI1]

Thanx for making this video ,it was very well done, I also like that you included Skullport and some of the newer products too in you review . Thanx again ...

[@captcorajus]

You're very welcome! I tried to be as complete as I could, and put all the source material in a single place.

[@Steelguard327]

loved the video, to be honest i'd love you to do an in depth video on each of the under-mountain products. thanks again!!!

[@captcorajus]

that's a possibility. !!

[@sargondp69]

Just downloaded the lot: seems like good bedtime reading. I am suddenly drawn to play NWN: HTUD as I never did play that far into the game. But the nostalgia and sense of adventure of an old video game is hardly as as presented here. That is a really imaginative and classic setting by Greenwood. Need to find that Blackcloak and put an axe in his arcane behind as he is surely turned to all manner of E-vile!

[@MARSHOMEWORLD]

Outstanding and informative sir! This is a series I have never played before. I am indeed curious to track some of these resources down now. That 4th Edition module, "Halls Of Undermountain" seems ripe for conversion. Thanks so much for all you do. VERY much looking forward to your "Masks Of Nyarlathotep" review.

[@captcorajus]

Glad you liked it! :)

[@PerformanceCheck]

Just discovered your channel! What incredible and well made content. A true must for any D&D fan. Instant subscriber here.

[@captcorajus]

Wow! Thank you and welcome!

[@FPietros]

Nice review. Keep them coming.

[@jrewphills2222]

Great channel sir,Keep up the good work. I played D&D last year for the first time in ten years. It brought me back to the gaming world and pen and paper RPG's . Conversion complete lol Thanx

[@captcorajus]

Glad to have you back, and thank you for watching! Game on!

[@elQueFaltaba]

Oh! I do have this boxset, in Spanish .. and also have the 5e Dungeon of the Mad Mage recently .. can't find time to read it through

[@kurgon1976]

you have a Phd in D&D Captcorajus. You make the best videos!

[@captcorajus]

lol, that would make me 'Dr. Captcorajus.' I like it. Thanks!

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

Great review! I agree that the 2nd ed. Ruins campaign and the 3.5 ed. Expedition are the best. For DMs, I'd recommend Expedition first. You can get a party of low-level adventurers up to around 4th level with some small quests in town, then go down well for the first adventure. Expedition has enough encounters to get a party to 10th level or more. Around 6th-8th level would be a good time to transition to or mix in the Ruins set, as it is intended for more powerful characters.

[@iheartfire]

Awesome! I've heard of this adventure for a long time, and this was a great starting point for learning about it. Thanks ( :

[@roberttreble2690]

I found this review very informative. Great job!

[@alanrickett2537]

I am enjoying your channel very much. Your research is good and your views well expressed and layed out. I would love to see a review of the legends and lore books.

[@captcorajus]

That's a great topic! I've never really covered them, so that sound like a lot of fun.

[@noobiesnacks1636]

This sounds so interesting! Never played this at all :) Another great video.

[@RonnieLunn84]

I love campaign settings but I'm also a new DM without the history of experience you have. It would be great to see you start reviewing some campaign settings if that's something you have experience with. I've recently been intrigued by Ebberon, and I know there are so many neat campaign settings that I probably know nothing about.

[@captcorajus]

As a new DM I wouldn't worry too much about campaign settings. A town, and three adventure hooks is all you need. I say three, because that's generally how I start a new campaign. There's three places of interest that I'll bring to the character's attention, and then they can decide what they want to do, and then go from there. As a new DM, Waterdeep/ Undermountain ARE campaign settings. You literally could run an entire campaign there. I know... I did it for 10 years. :). Thanks for watching!

[@humanphillips3091]

I had forgotten about your excellent video's . Dark powers ensnared me and were about to spell my doom.......I was unemployed and my internet was cut off.

[@captcorajus]

Glad to have you back!!

[@Ragitsu]

What is the campaign at 14:53 all about? Methinks it has something to do with vampire slavery...

[@RocKnight11]

I just discovered your channel about a month ago and I'm loving it. I have a request... could you do a Retro Review of the 3rd Edition module 'The Sunless Citadel'? It was one of the first modules I ever purchased as an adult and holds a special place in my heart.

[@captcorajus]

You're timing for that request is pretty good. I don't know if you are aware, but WOTC's "Tales from the Yawning Portal" book coming out in April will be doing a 5E update of that module. I really like that module myself, and remember it fondly as the first 3E module I ran. Twig Blights!! So, yeah, I'm fairly sure I can make that happen. :D

[@RocKnight11]

Cool, I'll definitely keep an eye out for it. Thank you.

[@jeromepeters9842]

Great review! I've wondered who runs the Yawning Portal in 5e and who runs the Red Sashes as I would assume Durnan has passed as 5e seems to be set a 120 years after 2nd.

[@captcorajus]

Yes, apparently its run by 'Durnan the 7th". I kid you not. SMDH.

[@ScroteyLiberace]

Amazing! Love these reviews, so many good times between 1980 and 2000 for our groups in particular, but still going strong and once again going back to 3.5e now :)

[@MichaelSalo]

I remember being blown away by the original box set, and sadly disappointed by part II. The first clearly had the Ed Greenwood touch, and the second didn't.

[@madhatterhimself181]

I am personally suspicious that the next 5th Edition major release, code-named "Labyrinth" could very well turn out to be a return to Undermountain. www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/09/dd-mysterious-labyrinth-book-appears-online.html Chris Perkins has been doing workshops on creating a "Mega-Dungeon" and I am curious if this is what those mega-dungeons are building towards; a potential "rebirth" of Undermountain, especially since it seems like Halaster's influence still lingers in Undermountain, despite his death.

[@captcorajus]

Lol, nice pickup! Things that make you say, "Hmmmm".

[@madhatterhimself181]

It may very well be nothing more than wishful thinking, but GOD do I hope so. I've never touched Undermountain, but have wanted to do so for quite awhile. Bringing it back for 5th Edition would be amazing.

[@captcorajus]

MadHatterHimself Converting UM to 5E isn't really all that hard!

[@RobertWF42]

Wouldn't there be a bunch of monsters hanging out on level 1 under the Yawning Portal, ready to ambush adventurers with overwhelming numbers? As soon as they hear the loud winch & rattling chains, they'd know fresh meat is being delivered. :-)

[@captcorajus]

You might think that, but for several factors. The monsters don't just eat adventurers, they also eat each other. So, if you want to get eaten, then go to a place that is known and hang out there. There aren't just 'wild' creatures either, also intelligent ones, so all in all its not a good plan to camp the entryway and hope the nice folks above send you food. That how you end up food yourself. HOWEVER, there is another strategy this is far more successful and that is to patrol. You check several spots, and keep moving. Monsters soon learn (the ones that survive anyway) the parties coming DOWN fresh are usually well equipped and prepared, and much tougher opponents. Better to WAIT, and pounce on those parties returning to the entry way. They've probably already engaged other monsters, expended spells are injured (is that the smell of blood?), and so on. I had an Umber Hulk who would patrol near and around the chasm. His tactic was to pounce on a returning party, and use his confusion ability. This might cause some of them to accidentally just walk off the edge to the 60 foot drip below.. or at the very least make it so a simple push would send them careening over the edge. :)

[@pjm3005]

@@captcorajus said " Better to WAIT, and pounce on those parties returning to the entry way. " Which is exactly why there is a one way secret door in the first room 8)

[@captcorajus]

@@pjm3005 Amusingly, so very few parties actually check for secret doors in the first room. Though the more intelligent denizens of UM know about it. :)

[@nBasedAce]

My favorite old school table top RPG is Heroes Unlimited. :)

[@jrewphills2222]

I loved Heroes Unlimited.Such a cool feel to that game.You can be ultra powered Superman characters or Street vigilantes fighting gangs with 80's b movie martial arts or a robot man struggling to find a date on friday night.....my games got weird.

[@JdRLudiste]

That was awesome! thank you!

[@adampender4727]

another great video. what's next?

[@br0adsw0rd65]

I'm curious for a comparison between the brand new Dungeon of the Mad Mage and the previous incarnations of Undermountain adventures. Just sayin'

[@captcorajus]

I can assure you, that comparison is coming very soon!!

[@sesemango]

where can we find the mentioned cthulhu modul review?

[@captcorajus]

Its been a few years, could you possibly give me a timestamp? :)

[@sesemango]

@@captcorajus I'm interested in the Masks of Nyarlathotep too :)

[@Kuldirongaze1]

4th Edition certainly has a very different feel with it's "points of light" theme and "the world needs heroes" mood. As such, I feel their changes make sense seeing that 2e, & 3e Waterdeep/Undermountain would clash with that. 4th Edition was more than just a rules change, it was truly "post-apocalyptic" D&D. Dark Sun seems to work best for the theme and mood, as 4th Edition is pretty dark.

[@Mnnvint]

One if the problems with Forgotten Realms was how silly-high magic it was. There were just so many everyday virtual demigods walking around, if you looked critically at it, it was hard to explain why there would be any work left over for the PCs at all, especially low level ones. Stuff like the Volo's guides makes sure to detail how pretty much every tavern wench is a geared-up-to-the-max hero (just in case the PC's try anything funny). So I can sort of understand why they would change it. But that's still pretty disappointing to those who (like captcorajus) spent years making it work despite its paradoxes. Generally I didn't like "official" updates to campaign worlds. It seemed to me it was more a cheap ploy to sell more books. They frequently messed up what I intended the game to be (like in Mystara, where oops, the elves don't have a homeland anymore? Tough luck!). You could of course ignore it in your campaign, but every thing you ignored made other supplements feel less valuable.

[@BewareTheCarpenter]

So this entire dungeon is under sea level, but it's not flooded, and it has rivers running through it?

[@NoActuallyGo-KCUF-Yourself]

Halaster did A LOT of magic to the place. Also, prior Dwarven mining, so it's pretty strongly put together.

[@AgoodITguy]

Does it worth to buy and translate to 5e?

[@captcorajus]

There's really not a lot to 'translate' to be honest, so yes!. For the most part, i do it all on the fly. If it says there's a goblin there, i just a 5E goblin. If there's a trap, i frequently use it almost directly as written substituting any saves for the appropriate 5E save. i.e. dragon breath = Dex save and so on. If it says there's a percentage change for X to happen, I'll totally use percentile dice. Have fun with it, and don't sweat it! UM is a LOT of fun!

[@papapingas1797]

im trying to be a dm and your videos are so helpfull

[@p-leif630]

so are oyu glad he is back?

[@captcorajus]

Yes, I'm very glad! lol.. You can't keep a devious wizard down for long!

[@p-leif630]

@@captcorajus what would the world be with out Mad wizards? Boring and predictable owlbear less too

[@jrytacct]

Where's Part 1? I can't find it.

[@captcorajus]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4qnfIZ7l7l5iNE

[@pccleric]

I have all of the 2nd edition under mountain stuff

[@sternstones4871]

4th edition sucks

[@namniem4668]

Well done mate. Takes me back 20 years. Regards, Andy from Yorkshire UK.