#RPG

[@Senumunu]

VTM: midlife crisis edition

[@beetlejuss]

After play this for few months I can say this is more horror then the old versions, in the sense that you are less powerful and surviving is more difficult for vampires, and I really enjoy that, and I also find that the hunger is a similar mechanic that stress in The Walking Dead or in less degree to Alien, which is way better and rolling only once to make a save, because is a sub-pool that make your PC act agaisnts itself without loosing player agency.

[@chriskirby9408]

Fond memories of Vampire Larping in the 90's. So many goth chicks, so little time.

[@cptmachine]

I have V20 and W20 which are my preferred edition as it contains everything I need.

[@HunterTheCat1812]

The fashion sketch comment is particularly interesting because they were done by a fashion designer for the VtM MMO that was cancelled. It made me chuckle lol

[@TheWasteOfTime]

Hahahaha, when ye said the line "blood drinking superheroes with trenchcoats and katanas" I thought back on most of the characters I created for Vampire: The Masquerade and just said "ouch..." But then I think of the most successful/fun character I made who was a trolling type character who dressed like Tuxedo Mask from Sailor Moon and called himself "Tuxedo Ass."

[@frankparker1191]

I enjoyed listening to this review. I have yet to purchase the 5th edition publication and go over it myself, which I do intend to do. However VTM 20th anniversary edition, I love already. Old World of Darkness is essential for me to have interest in 5th edition, so I am glad they returned to it. The Hunger system sounds interesting, as does the idea of feeding practices being a part of your character sheet. The rest of which I heard sounded worrisome, either to simple in design or to unfinished. The graphic design is also not my cup of tea, the model lineup images look like they are from Zoolander. Derelicte fashion show for Vampires.

[@briankeys5941]

its from the MMO the company was going to make. most of this is leftover resources. look at any concept art for characters. also watc the 2017 WOD Documentary and ul see why its hard to find. i had to brave the high seas lol bc its so obvious when u watch the doc THIS IS A BACK CONVERTED PC/CONSOLE GAME. before anyone disagrees, pls pay attention to all the art in the Doc.

[@almanacofsleep]

Two years on and this is still the biggest misfiring of a new edition since 4thed DnD, seriously V5 killed the property dead...for me at least.

[@zengunman9553]

Yeah, we'll see if they unfuck it with sixth edition.

[@jammydodger222Xxd]

Man I've only just discovered vtm and the world of darkness and was really excited to get into it. The trouble is in the past when I've played RPGs my personal politics have literally never come up. Now in this overly politicised and divisive world especially with what you said about the political elements of the disclaimer I don't know if I want to get involved. I don't feel like constantly having to justify my political beliefs or to actively hide them. How much of a problem is this in reality does anyone know? Do games become heavily politicised or is it one of these things that never actually comes up?

[@ThatGuyKazz]

If you're going to play in a public setting then it'll likely cause some issues at some point just because there is always someone who is going to take offense that you'd include some political topic in your character/game even if you personally don't agree with those politics on an actual personal level because the world is full of absolutely insane fanatics that can't allow someone else to just enjoy exploring different ideas no matter how detached from reality they are. That said if you're playing with a group of friends that understand it's a freaking game and just because you include a racist character in the game (as a random example) that doesn't mean you yourself are racist and they can be mature about that stuff then literally all that is a complete non-issue. Moral of the story don't game with assholes and you'll be golden.

[@KLamki1]

90% chance you will run into one of those zealot SJW you here about in the video about. Can't really avoid it unless you find a group in your own circle or search for like minded individuals that aren't far left leaning. These people have been invading other people's hobbies for decades now. You know if you spot one if they use catchphrases like "nuanced" or use "hate speech" as means to shut down discussions. They don't like you having your own opinion and they certainly don't like you criticising anything they like. They will often become emotional hostile towards you. Best to just laugh at them and move on. That said people have recommended 20th anniversary edition instead of V5E.

[@LexTenebris]

I'm one of those dirty hippie Story Gamers, I suppose - even though "dirty hippie" is about the furthest set of adjectives from describing me as possible, and it strikes me that the new Vampire has a problem, in that it seems like it was written even more than the original by committee. That committee was further subdivided between the guys who worked on the "story gaming mechanics" and the guys who worked on the "combat modeling mechanics" for lack of a better term. The guys in the first camp really seemed to wish that they were playing Sorcerer, and I don't really blame them. If you were to drop the combat mechanics and a lot of the other mechanics which drive "you must do this to achieve something" and just kept the mechanics that mechanize story, leaving things like combat to a very free-form, low resolution mechanical architecture, you would have a really reasonable game about vampires that felt pretty coherent. Likewise, if you dropped the story driving mechanics and just played a very traditional Vampire game with roles for whether you rise successfully, dice pools for poking a guy, etc., you would have a fairly crunchy but certainly serviceable Vampire game. The problem comes from putting the two together. Because then you have a game that mechanizes everything and it plays out more like a poorly designed wargame than a role-playing game. Combine that with a company that seems to no longer trust its audience, requiring them to be warned, requiring them to be guided, and requiring them to not be allowed to engage in wrong-think while they play, and you get whatever this is. Honestly, at this point if I were going to run Vampire, and by that I mean Old World of Darkness, I wouldn't use Vampire. I'd use Sorcerer, and focus on the issues with Humanity with some very narrative-driven resolution mechanics. I'd use Capes, and focus on the fact that things at the table are all about conflicts between characters and what they want and like. I'd use Kingdom, and focus on the population of vampires as a community. In the 90s, Vampire was the first and best way to do what Vampire does. But it's no longer the 90s, and the industry has developed its technology and specificity to the point where we can do better and it's just the nostalgia holding us back. We can do better.

[@bc18651]

Wow. Really thorough review thank you.

[@Ike_of_pyke]

So I just got around to finishing this one and to talking about "where's the story" there was a lore book called Beckett's Jyhad diary which was strictly about going from v20 to v5 in the time line

[@captcorajus]

Specialty dice? I'm instantly out on any game that uses them, period the end. I won't play the new Star Wars game, and I guess I'll stick with the old Vampire game as well. Thanks for this review.

[@lugzgaming5074]

I'm considering buying VtR2e since I don't have any connection to the metaplot and from what I understand it's much better mechanically than VtM. Do you recommend it?

[@PostmortemVideo]

I cannot recommend requiem.

[@PoxikFrostbite]

Any plans to do any games as a performance for your channel? I'd love to play in your games

[@PostmortemVideo]

Planning to do some games somewhen.

[@faust13301]

I bought the book at GenCon. There are things I like about it, particularly the updated lore. I will not, however, be switching from my old game to a V5 game. I've cherry picked all the stuff from 2cd edition, Revised and V20 and use what I and my players enjoy for our chronicle. I'll do the same with V5.

[@willinnewhaven3285]

For my enjoyment, I make decisions for my character, things that my character can know about and influence. And that's all. I get lifted out of immersion by things like Fate Points. Who is making this decision?

[@richardshort2001]

Saw it at Gen Con. Picked it up and looked at the front credit page. When I saw that Mark Rein-Hagen was credited only with "Additional Writing" closed it and put it down.

[@snakeyman5560]

The past you describe of playing vtm with 30-40+ people and larping is the experience I wish I've had. I can't find a group. All my friends just want to play video games and don't have the patience for an rpg.

[@PostmortemVideo]

The way to sell it, perhaps, is that in a TTRPG you aren't bound by the restrictions of programming etc. Baldur's Gate is praised for the scope of things you can do, but in a TTRPG you can come up with just about any wild plan or idea (within the bounds of plausible reality). That's a scope computer games simply cannot match.

[@snakeyman5560]

@@PostmortemVideo Thanks bro!

[@snakeyman5560]

​@@PostmortemVideoNo success :(

[@PostmortemVideo]

@@snakeyman5560 worth a shot. Ask them what might convince them?

[@almanacofsleep]

A lot of bit (exuse the pun) has really gone out of rpg art, judging by what few illustrations I've seen. The vampires are less creatures of the night and shoreditch hipsters on a night out.

[@CgfLandon]

Can I see what's in the box

[@comyuse9103]

i played v5 before i played any 20th game and i felt so _less than._ i have since created 4 or 5 vampires in v20 and a handful of mages in m20, and they just feel so much more in 20th. more powerful, more diverse, more interesting. just off the top of my head, in v20 i feel like i have _way_ more options for my character and they all feel way more meaningful than anything in 5th. following the path of lilith or cathari feels like an actual choice with actual consequences in the wider world, just defining an ethical hedonist for my humanity doesn't. x-cards, or whatever they are called, are perfectly fine, especially for a game about horror. its important to have boundaries, and in a scene where you might end up playing with total strangers being able to more easily and immediately communicate those boundaries is a good thing. i don't use them, because i actually know my group, but still.

[@PostmortemVideo]

They're especially NOT fine for horror, where they cut the legs out from under mood-setting and moments of emotion and immersion.

[@comyuse9103]

@@PostmortemVideo this is a game, not an exposure therapy session. you absolutely need to know when to lay off, that is basic human interaction.

[@PostmortemVideo]

@@comyuse9103 It's not a therapy session at all. It's the player's responsibility to take care of themselves without ruining it for everyone else.

[@Ike_of_pyke]

Nice, just waking up for work(yank) so this is a good wake up

[@paulberry5750]

The first character I'd ever created was a Basic D&D Magic User. Priests, Mages, Alchemists, or Psionicists have been my stock in trade since '82. Are you saying that Tremere are off the table? That was the one & only vampire I've ever played. No casters, no cash.

[@PostmortemVideo]

No, there are Tremere. Just handled a bit differently and not necessarily the powerhouse they once were.

[@paulberry5750]

:'(

[@Waywardpaladin]

Tremere have a lot more freedom now and aren't someone's whipping boy (anymore than any young vampire.)

[@DARTHMOBIUS]

Tremere had the ‘clan ideologue’ hierarchical monasticism, Blood bond etc. Now they’re a bunch of Occult bling wearing Starbucks hipsters, with practically no depth.

[@MakCurrel]

You talk alot about old WoD and LARP. My experience is that old world of darkness is best for table to with the integrant and complex social structure between the sects and clans. But requiem is to me better suited for live roleplay with the more simple covenant structure. So you can focus more on the play with the politics on top, instead of the other way around.

[@Waywardpaladin]

"New WoD didn't really work" and then they go and steal Touchstones, Blood Potency, and so on... Played WoD for a long time, played NewWoD to its change to Chronicles of Darkness. To me, objectively better mechanically and as a setting where interesting and surprising stories can be told without the setting straight jacket and hard coded expectations of Old WoD. That being said, I bought the 5th Ed PDF in case any in my group want to try a hit of nostalgia and do appreciate the new things they have tried.

[@frontline989]

Great review

[@stephaniecuellar3192]

Meh- I'll stick with the systems I'm familiar with. First Ed. (Apocalypse and Asention as well)

[@losmanzani6849]

Loved the OWOD thanks for the review.

[@gy7694]

Only in a video about a horror RPG can you spontaneously turn a phlegmy gargle into a demonic rasp, good thinking on yer feet lol 😀

[@Fellwinter]

Meh! If I want to play owod vampires (and i don't) then I play the far superior V20. Nwod vampires are still the better vampire game.

[@ThatGuyKazz]

So maybe it is just me but I really think that most of the actual criticism you have here are kinda trumped up and pointless non-issues for most of table top gaming... Like the whole lines and veils thing and pandering to social justice warriors argument to me is completely ridiculous. Not because I think they should be pandering to social justice warriors but because if you don't want to do that in your games you don't have to. The whole point is to encourage a group to actually talk to each other about the type of game they want to have which given the potential implications and general themes that the setting tends to lean towards that is a good thing. Things like human trafficking and sexual content are very common themes in Vampire the Masquerade and it is perfectly reasonable to at least consider that not everyone is going to be comfortable playing a game where there character might be even tangentially involved with a sex trafficking ring because that might just come up at some point if it isn't discussed before hand and then you've put that player in a very uncomfortable position and it's something that is going to be an issue for that player regardless of whether you talk about it or not. If you're playing with a group of players that don't care about that cool nobody is saying you can't include those darker themes in your game knowing everyone at your table is going to be mature and understand that it is fiction and the actions of the characters doesn't reflect upon who that person is as a player. Granted I can see this sort of concern as being more of a potential barrier to large form uses like the LARPing groups of old that you mention but IMO those are always going to be a sespool of drama one way or another. So meh what is the difference in adding one more long on that fire? As far as mechanical concerns I can understand your issues with hunger but that can also be easily rectified with some simple house rules. Perhaps you give an elder vampire 3 extra free hunger points so they don't even start using hunger dice until they are at 4 hunger or when ever they make a hunger roll they get to roll twice and their hunger only increases if they fail both rolls. You could give them extra dots or even additional automatic successes perhaps your elder Brujah player just gets 3 automatic successes on any strength roll in addition to having 5 dots in both strength and melee or they succeed on a 4+ rather than a 6+. Like it is super easy to juice up the characters if that's what you want to do. So I really don't feel that is a particularly strong case against the system as long as you're willing to even a very modest amount of house rules it's only an issue if you're going to be rules nazi and need to take everything as the most literal rules as written interpretation. IMO the rules don't start and stop with the rule book and the beauty of TTRPGs is that if you don't like a rule you have the ability to change that. The rule books is nothing more than a jumping off point. I do agree with your criticism of specialty dice because specialty dice are bullshit but as far as the specialty dice go V5's are very mild and not at all a hassle to substitute with actual d10s. 1 is crit fail, 2-5 are fail, 6-9 are success, 10 is crit success and the difference between normal dice and hunger dice is just color. Very simple. So unlike a lot of specialty dice sets which often make not using them extremely cumbersome that might have 5 different types that each have different ratios of success and failure and/or might have partial or situational success or consolation prizes or any other random variations that make it nearly impossible to use normal dice without constantly needing to consult a table to convert the result, the V5 specialty dice are very simple and IMO completely optional and mostly just a way for people who don't already own more dice than they can shake a stick at to but a single set that does exactly what they need them to do.

[@PostmortemVideo]

One has to review a product as it is presented, and the malaise in the general community also affects me as a designer, writer and freelancer - so perhaps seems more important to me than others. However, the inclusion of this nonsense in books does seem to be steering the gaming culture in a bad, immature direction.

[@ThatGuyKazz]

@@PostmortemVideo that is fair and I can see where you you're coming from and I could see that as something could lead to problems. I think perhaps the biggest issue with is more that it gives people playing in a public setting a sense of entitlement that they can impose their comfort on to the game regardless of what anyone else involved would prefer. There is certainly a middle ground though where at the very least a game master/community organizer should in my opinion inform their players that their game will or at least may contain something like sexual assault or human trafficking and the leave it up to a player's digression whether or not they are going to participate or not. There is nothing wrong with being unapologetic about the unadulterated nature of the story you're trying to tell but we also shouldn't fault people for bowing out and choosing not to take part if it's something they aren't comfortable with. The point being people should be aware of what they are getting them selves into before hand rather than being surprised by it while they are at the table. Again if someone has an issue with those themes and someone at the table is planning on diving into those themes at some point then it WILL create problems one way or another and you can either work those problems out before you start or you can deal with the consequences of not sorting it out once it comes up 3 months into the campaign and someone has a meltdown at the table or after the session.

[@KLamki1]

@@Fruitbat-tb3lg I read about it. Paraphrasing here, it was warning to the readers to be extra sensitive towards snowflakes. "This is a game about monsters. But it is only a game. Don’t use it as an excuse to be a monster yourself." Basically they did the same virtue signalling nonsense that Game workshop did with their reply to the fans. Calling their audiences bigots and ists for not agreeing with their changes made to the product. Also interpretation of what they think of their old fans: i.redd.it/g7k7n0gmfvc71.jpg

[@KLamki1]

@@Fruitbat-tb3lg No problem. In theory you can still ignore whatever they wrote in that book though. People have said they just use it for the game mechanics, but I'm more interested in the fluff and art work. Knowing that they've took a huge dump on the lore with progressive bs was enough for me to avoid it. Going to save up for V20 edition instead.

[@BonusEggs4Sale]

lol rightoids@@KLamki1

[@arthinugami]

The amount of cartoonish politics really killed this book for me, too many of the convictions for character creation are ether communism or Left-wing "From each according to their abilities, to each according to their needs" much of the rest to do with rich vs poor. I find this very concerning for a lore focused around religious Vampires who believe in God It's just very jarring to me when these Vampires believe in God and their organizations are so religious in fact that from what I know in the lore they didn't even allow Jews to become Vampires with exception to Nosferatu, Such a religiously focused setting being filled with communist Left-wing vampires as the norm just doesn't make sense to me.

[@PostmortemVideo]

Well, they're not all religious and don't all believe in god. The politics has always been there (a corrupt gerontocracy that controls literal and metaphorical power) and rebels, typically in the form of the Brujah.

[@arthinugami]

@@PostmortemVideo Most of my knowledge comes from the game Bloodlines and word of mouth. I can understand one or two clans being very political but it's just seems like every second vampire is a modern leftist which just throws me off, as vampire organizations I imagine would ether be conservatives or not care for mortal politics. In the game the anarchs hated the politics.

[@KLamki1]

@@arthinugami Is V5E that bad with a bunch of commie and lefty socialist vamps? I'll probably be a hard pass for me. I was interested in the book but if it's full of modern politic activists I'd rather not waste the money. I have a few of the clans books because I was interested in the lore. What about V20 is that any good?

[@arthinugami]

@@KLamki1 if you want a game with good modern politics play Delta Green. Very easy system, and has really great modules.

[@arthinugami]

@@KLamki1 Also yea I didn't believe the crap I heard until I read it, it's everything horrible about modern politics with a lack of humor, that I missed in the older books

[@rory7590]

The basic criticism throughout this seems to be the same: change is bad. I disagree. To be honest, it was a hard review to listen through - the voice was droning and the points raised were highly subjective, with the veneer of objectivity.

[@PostmortemVideo]

Not really, no. There's changes that worked and others than didn't. Change is harder when you have established canon and the changes demand an explanation though.

[@rory7590]

Grim Jim The changes from ‘canon’ were explained, and considering this is the official book - it is canon now. When you talk about changes ‘that worked’, what you really mean is changes you like - and this being an example of blurring subjectivity with objectivity.

[@PostmortemVideo]

No, not really they weren't. I mean what I say and I say what I mean; and I mean 'worked'. Not 'I liked them', save to the extent that utility plays a role in that.

[@rory7590]

Grim Jim So you’ve played it then? More to the point, you’ve seen that it doesn’t work with every group that has played it? I’ve played it - and the criticisms you make are subjective to you.

[@PostmortemVideo]

Or the things you like are subjective to you, but given that I was talking about fitting into the canon and the interplay of rules and theme/mood I'm not especially speaking subjectively. You like it, bully for you. Go enjoy it. Jesus.

[@ryanbermudez6626]

How har do I have to skip ahead in the video to get past the political bloviating and on to the actual review of the game?

[@PostmortemVideo]

Start by actually listening around the 1 minute 40 second mark.

[@blailton3919]

So, play neonazi can be fun to you, eh? GFY

[@PostmortemVideo]

Play. Make believe. Not real. Do you go to the sets of WWII films and harass the actors?

[@blailton3919]

Grim Jim No: IF it was offenssive just use the law. If in yor Ex they portray all jews as bandits, pedos and rapists, and nazis as protagonists doing their stuff. If you think a bunch of alt rights playing a coterie of neonazis doing neonazi stuff (beat and kill black, gay, etc for intolerance) its okay we are done. Call me SJW all you want.

[@Nyrufa]

Go to hell. Nobody picked up a game about VAMPIRES, with the delusion of playing the good guys.

[@KLamki1]

@@blailton3919 Oh the irony. Calling conservatives nazis. Brilliant! You don't even understand the ideologies of the parties you're writing about. Do you even know what Nazi is short for? "Nationalsozialist" aka national socialist. Does that sound like right leaning to you? You're writing awful lot of absolute tosh. Which university did you learned that from? Looks like it brainwashed you like one of Stalin, Mao, or Hitler's youth camps. Conservatism on the right stands for the preservation of the existing order (hints in the damn name "conserv") the left is in favor of socialistic reforms. What makes you think that conservatives are nazis? The nazis wanted to destroy the old order to create their new socialist world order not conserve traditions. They wanted to destroy it and replace it with their own perversions. Anyone that resisted was executed or imprisoned. So no, the right have nothing remotely in common with a nazi. It's like saying Christianity practised human sacrifice and worshipped goat statues. That's how stupid you sound. Go read a old history book and stop invading other people's hobbies and perverting it like nationalist socialist or communist would.

[@aradicaldude]

You're absolutely unhinged. You sound like the individual that would absolutely be a nazi in nazi Germany, yet will proselytize you'd be the 1 in a million to stand strong and be the beacon of justice. I bet you support Palestine but have never once spoken up about the war crimes being conducted in Yemen by the Houthis.

[@eze333]

Worst review I've heard so far. I love the 5th edition and I've watched L.A. By Night and non of these things presented a problem in those playthroughs. You're just overly biased in favor of the older editions.

[@PostmortemVideo]

Or properly biased towards superior games.

[@eze333]

@@PostmortemVideo Don't get me wrong, I really love V20 and there are a few things that really put me off about how the V5 book is put together, but as far as game mechanics go, I can't really complain. I also actually prefer the new hunger mechanic over the blood pool mechanic even though it can be annoying at times when it makes things that should be easier harder than they should be but I find this more true to the nature of what it would actually be like to be a vampire constantly having to fight the beast. And even that can be countered if you're good with how you use willpower or have high enough willpower that you can afford to burn some from time to time. The only way I see the new mechanics being a problem for us older players is not having a good storyteller. Also V5 is newbie friendly which I love because I think we all know Vampire until now was definitely not a game a newbie could just pick up and play and that in itself is kind of annoying if you're playing with brand new players. One thing a lot of people are complaining about is how much lore is missing from the book. But if you already know the lore it's really not a problem and much of the lore can be filled in within the confines of a game for new players by us veterans. V5 gives them just enough to be able to understand what's happening on the surface so they can jump right in.

[@josharchibald4637]

@@eze333 This is a rather late reply, but I gotta say I disagree with newbies having a hard time playing vamp. It was one of the first games I ever played. the other being 2nd edition Dnd. of the two Vamp was definitely easier to get into. It's grounded in the real world (which most people know implicitly). Vampires have a basic lore and structure. I was only 15 and I didn't find it hard to figure out. After that you're gold. the system was super easy to pick up on. All in all, I'd say that any of the early whitewolf games are probably the best beginner games on the market.

[@clairestark9024]

La by night flubbed or outright ignores a lot of mechanics.

[@eze333]

@@clairestark9024 I really don't care that they missed a few mechanics here and there for what it was. I watched it more for the storyline and entertainment factor. Not to be bogged down by mechanics. I don't think anyone that plays any ttrpg is strictly by the book anyway. These games were made to be enjoyable for anyone that might want to play them so who cares if a mechanic or 2 is left out?