Rule the Waves 3 Mini Tutorial 2 - Battleship Design

[@potbelliedslim7645]

RTW3 allows you to adjust the ammo amounts for Secondary and Tertiary guns now for increased load outs for engagements where you really expect to use the secondaries to carry the fight or for later DP guns . Submerged torpedo tubes also have the unfortunate potential to drastically increase flooding if damaged. Been there, done that.

[@RvTWargames]

We've all enjoyed the double edged sword of submerged torpedoes. But they are handy for showing you the enemy's torpedo range and keeping the enemy from getting too checky and closing the range too much. I'm liking the secondary and tertiary ammunition controls too.

[@richardprivate5568]

Wikipedia has an article on the Charles Martel which was actually ordered on 10 Sep 1890 - spot on with your design date. Great walkthrough again. can't wait to the 1st war :)

[@RvTWargames]

Well that is a happy coincidence!

[@cormallen]

Will it take seven years to build though?

[@RvTWargames]

😅.... No

[@GreenKnight2001]

Division management is one of the big advantages of RTW3 over 2

[@RvTWargames]

It really helps the coherence of your fleet: the ships you designed to operate together usually end up operating together.

[@thomaszupan6308]

Hi! I know it's pretty early, but when you make the larger series something I would be interested in is the latest 1935 start. I think it would be a good idea as the 1960s/1970s features are some of the things heavily showcased and how the mid 1930's-40's ships deal in the face of the 1960s technology. Along with that the new upgraded air designs and how aircraft carriers now truly can be obsolete, with these big feature as to why the game exists and I think it would be really cool to showcase and educate us! Edit: Before I forget I think a really nice challenge would be to get jet fighters as fast as possible with the 1935 start ;)

[@RvTWargames]

Thomas, that's the exactly the start I was thinking of doing. Most of the biggest changes are to the late game and I want to play with middles, jets, late carriers, special squadrons for electronic warfare and helicopters.

[@boss9846]

Hello! Thank you for your work! There is very little information on this interesting game! Glad I found you! while passing the game, new technologies are studied: Reducing the weight of the ship's hull, improving armor, Krupp armor, Harvey's armor, and others - please tell me - do these technologies work on old ships - which were built and designed before the discovery of these technologies or not? How it works? After studying a technology that reduces the weight of a ship's hull or improves the quality of armor, is it necessary to design and build new ships to take advantage of new technologies? Thanks for the answer!

[@RvTWargames]

So technologies built into the fabric of the the ship, like armour, do not get upgraded. Once the ship is designed, it's set. Technologies that are equipment, like fire control, can be upgraded during refits to the next level. Technologies that involve 'soft skills' like many of the fleet tactics are upgraded without you having to dry anything.

[@patl709]

This is probably outside the scope of a mini tutorial. However, when playing with larger fleets, or larger budgets, I like to plan my ship building programme with a spread sheet. This lets you plan your builds years in advance and helps one to maximise the number of ships you can build with your budget. If need be one can adjust the program as political events and or your budget changes.

[@RvTWargames]

We are both men of the spreadsheet and it's joys!

[@chrisparisi7291]

@@RvTWargames I'd love to see a quick tutorial on how you build such a spreadsheet!

[@RvTWargames]

I will be building them again when I start my new 1935 play through. You can also see some in the early episodes of my France 1920 playthrough.

[@darthteej1]

I just got into this game and it's really fun! im playing an italy game byt eventually i, a leftist, want to try a France or Germany game where i deconstruct the Empire while still finding a way to take on the Brits

[@RvTWargames]

Excellent. Italy is a good starter choice, as is France. Germany is a bit more limited, but has the potential for a lot of fun as well.

[@glenjones5416]

Liked this tutorial. To the point concept, addressed needs, and relevant design for period. Nice brah!!

[@RvTWargames]

Thank you, Glen! Glad it's hitting the spot.

[@TheOneTrueGriswel]

Loving the series, though I think it'll cost me $40 shortly. Nevermind. It has a huge manual and I fondly recall reading and rereading the old SSI manuals (Run 5! Old memories). Amazing what you realize you still didn't know rereading after many hours of play. I'll be reading the Manual shortly.

[@RvTWargames]

The manual is very helpful. I read it too. But it doesn't explain everything as the developers don't want to give you too much foresight so you know exactly what is coming.

[@b1laxson]

On short range for capital ships. 1/3 ish of your ships can be short range as the home guard. IT will almost always be a thing to guard your home waters. I dont always do that but in early years with limited tonnage it can help.

[@RvTWargames]

That is a good idea, particularly if you only have one home area. Bit more difficult for France and Germany, but certainly works for Italy and Russia.

[@chrisparisi7291]

Really enjoying your various videos, and glad to hear you're on the mend as well.

[@RvTWargames]

Thank you, Chris. Very much enjoying making them and interacting with the lovely community of gamers here!

[@Trifler500]

Just one note: You start with 3" guns of Quality 1 (not certain about France), while your 4" guns are -1. So, I would stick with the 3" at the start.

[@RvTWargames]

Good spot, Trifler. It's the sort of detail that's easy for me to miss when I'm both playing and commentating while making these videos.

[@Trifler500]

@@RvTWargames Indeed! No criticism meant from me whatsoever.

[@RvTWargames]

None heard. Just care about the games we love.

[@Trifler500]

@@RvTWargames :)

[@Wick9876]

The Germans start with quality 1 3" guns because, at 88mm (3.4"), theirs were bigger than most.

[@GreenKnight2001]

BE esp should be added since there are so many secondary guns. DE is nice too.

[@RvTWargames]

So much exposed ship, so little armour to cover it all without the ship going over its displacement limits.

[@onealpha710]

The text In my game doesn't look half as dark as yours. I really wish they did something with the text/UI scaling. Great series, thanks for the effort and time. I see some MMP wargames on your shelf, would love to see you do a TCS series, not many around! Cheers.

[@RvTWargames]

Not sure why. I do have nice 4k monitors but not sure if that is the reason. For no obvious reason I've never played TCS. As you may have noticed I've done a set of depth videos for BCS. And I'm in the middle of scripting some for OCS - a refresher course for people who haven't played for a while and need to brush up on their OCS skills because they are playing DAK in a few weeks {ahem}.

[@onealpha710]

@@RvTWargames Nice! I haven´t played BCS or OCS yet. Will do In the future. Right now I am learning the Fighting Wings series from CoA. Will keep an eye on your MMP gaming too. I found that switching (In game) to a dark gray background and having the text In white works better on my monitor. Thanks for your reply, will sub also from my other wargaming channel. Good care and cheers!

[@hex2redonealpha102]

@@RvTWargames This Is my other channel. Two subs are better then one!

[@RvTWargames]

Hey certainly are! 😁 Strongly recommend BCS, BTW And deserves a sub back!

[@hex2redonealpha102]

@@RvTWargames Wilco, need to get back to uploading again, It´s been awhile. Thanks 👍

[@pavelslama5543]

Torpedoes in RtW3 are really not worth it. AI sees all of them immediately after their launch, so if its in any position to avoid them, it will always manage to avoid them. On the other hand, TPS (torpedo protection systems) are really worth it, as the game doesnt show you enemy torpedoes at all, even when they should be easily detectable by hydrophones. The game also doesnt take into account the angle of impact, which (especially in early torpedoes) could easily cause a bounce without detonation. So generally DDs are only worth it if you put on 1 torpedo tube, to make the AI run for hills and break formation, or 8+ torpedo tubes, so that you have at least a miniscule chance to score a hit. This has been an issue since Rule the Waves 1 (for me since 2016), and many people criticized it, but for devs its always either their way, or hi way.

[@RvTWargames]

Torpedoes are always worth finishing off a heavily damaged ship, saving a lot of shells, as making a ship sink with artillery can quickly exhaust your magazines. They are also important for forcing the enenmy to turn away if you are at a disadvantage and need things to cool down. Sending your destroyer divisions towards the enemy battleline will cause them to choose discretion over valour and both ruin their firing aim (by gaining a lot of negative to hit modifiers as they turn away). At night / restricted visibility, torpedoes can be devastating, especially at first contact, and it is wise to immediately turn your heavy ships sharpely away on first sight of the enemy, or face the risk of being soundly hit by one or more torpedo. In general, they are a deterant to engaging at too close a range (which gets larger as torpedo range increases) I've been playing post-1920s battles for the last couple of years, so I can't comment on the pre-1920s era, other than to say that early torpedos are very limited in their range and speed. But I beleive, by the 1910s they become effective when used en masse. Hydrophones only work at very very slow speed, because of amount of self-generated noise. BTW, there is only one dev, singular.

[@Horsa-sr8oz]

Excellent description of the game menus. The idea of a battleship being built in a few years makes no sense. Is there a reduction in build times at the start of the game or are the French given faster build times than historical for playability?

[@RvTWargames]

Battleships usually take about 33 months. At the start of the game you get some ships that are halfway through their construction.

[@EllenbergW]

Question time :) Around 02:00, you seem to indicate that tensions with other nations are direct linked to the naval budget, i.e. if tensions with Britain rise, so will your budget. Are you sure about that? Because I don't think so (at least in RTW2). Yes, there are events that are linked to tensions like low tensions leading the government to reduce your budget or high tensions getting parliament to raise the budget, but I have not seen a direct connection between tensions and budget _other_ than through events. Don't get me wrong, I too like to raise tensions with at least one nations to yellow, so the government doesn't reduce my budget, but personally, I try to keep tensions with the British (early to mid game) and the US (mid to late game) as low as possible, in order to get those sweet, sweet alliance offers.

[@RvTWargames]

I've always thought increase tensions directly increase budgets but you could be right, Hawk Eye. I'll double check in the next episode I record.

[@cormallen]

I'm fairly certain they do directly link. I've manually changed tensions in the save file and seen the budget change...

[@EllenbergW]

@@cormallen interesting and good to know.

[@stevejones5824]

I believe increasing tensions give you small increments of budget, it's the events when tensions are high when the 'government' grant larger budget amounts. There is also the annual economic rising budget effect to consider so it's not easy to work out - it's the hidden complexity (and RNG) which make this game enjoyable.

[@kalashnidoge]

Maximum kill for minimum bill

[@RvTWargames]

😁 It was rather cost effective!

[@kalashnidoge]

@@RvTWargames As it should

[@prome666]

Why do you need 12" belt if the 12in guns can only penetrate 6+ inches. (assuming enemies have similar technology level)? Wouldnt it be better to have just a bit thicker belt than what the highest caliber guns can penetrate?

[@RvTWargames]

Good question. Short answer, coming soon better quality 12 in guns that are quick to refit, and substantially increase the penetration and also the range. If you want to operate the ship for the next 15 years you'll need the extra protection, especially, as older compound armour, it won't have the same level of later Harvey or Krupp armour.

[@samueloverend3517]

Is it worthwhile to reduce the main belt thickness to increase belt extended and upper belt thickness so that more of the ship is proof against 6 inch guns? Even a 10 inch belt has over 2 inches of margin over the current performance of the 13 in guns at 1000 yards (7.8").

[@RvTWargames]

That is a very valid design choice, Samuel. It will improve the protection of ships against contemporary opponents. However, the late 1890s and early 1900s will see strong advances gun and ammunition quality, as well as fire control. This will increase penetration and also the range of engagements (also encouraged by increasing torpedo range). This will quickly overwhelm belt extender armour and make the thinner belt armour more liable to penetration. So, if you think of a evenly protected 1890s ship as a short lifetime ship, to be replaced after ten years or so, it is a sensible way to go. If you hope to get 15 or even 20 years service out of them, then the main belt heavy design is better.

[@samueloverend3517]

​@@RvTWargames I can't wait to get the game and try it out. It's basically a trade between citadel protection at end of life or increased protection against secondaries at the start of life. The question then becomes how much belt armour do I lose for how much extended armour I gain. The idea was triggered by your discussion of the destructive potential of the 6" guns. If they're causing the damage, then let's protect against them, and your upper belt & extended belt was looking a little vulnerable to them. I remember having an RTW2 battle between 1900 vintage light cruisers. The enemy had 3" belt and 1" BE, which was very nicely protected against my 6" main and 3" secondaries. I got the odd hit in the bow with the 6", but the battle was inconclusive even though it was 2 ships to 1 in my favour.

[@RvTWargames]

That is the joy of RtW3

[@GreenKnight2001]

Manual control is sometimes necessary IMO bc the AI will behave poorly. But manual torpedo launches make the game easy mode. And the poor DD crews suicidal 😅😅

[@RvTWargames]

Yes, I don't like manual mode either.

[@LeoDingley]

BB/BC Triple Turret question: I receive the following error message when building 4x16" triple centreline turrets on a BB or BC, 1928; "Hull is too narrow for speed >18 knots and triple/quad turrets in A or Y postions and TPS >1" Checking the almanac and intelligence reports, I see that both Britain and France are building BBs and BCs with 4x16" triple centreline turrets on BBs and BCs with speeds of 25 and 29 knots. Is the AI giving them only 1 TPS or am I missing a key technology? Cheers, Leo

[@RvTWargames]

That is an unusual message, Leo. I imagine that it is related to displacement, as beam is not something we can control, but it off implied by displacement. Otherwise it might be a hull form research that you are missing.

[@LeoDingley]

Thanks for your very welcome and informed response. I'm playing the Beta - 1.00.26 as Germany 1900 start. I was attempting to build a fast 35Kt BB/BC. The British battleship 12x16" guns, 25 knots, was 59,000 tons. The French batlecruiser 12x16" guns, 29 knots, was 46,100 tons. I was unable to design a 12x16" gun BB/BC under 60,000 tons, due to dock size, without the wierd error message. I was able to design a 9x16" fast battleship at 44,000 tons, "All OK". This is probably fine, too expensive in 1928, maybe 1929. Cheers, Leo

[@LeoDingley]

Another thought: I have a suss version of Windows installed. Whenever the AI creates a ship name with oumlauts I receive a series of "cannot find file" error messages. Nothing I can do about the NPC nations. I normally save, exit and restart. Unsuccessful so far in installing a legit version of Windows, may have to take the PC to the computer store ...

[@LeoDingley]

Solution: Improved Hull Design tech: Allows triple turrets in all positions regardless of speed and TPS

[@RvTWargames]

Well detected!

[@b1laxson]

For those who love to tinker with these things... Muhahahahahahah Graphic squad represent

[@RvTWargames]

The game is a tinker's heaven!