Run a 3 phase motor without a converter on single phase

  Рет қаралды 70,716

The Random Farmer

The Random Farmer

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 55
@gato6100
@gato6100 Ай бұрын
AWESOME, You answered all my questions, this is exactly the explanation I was looking for, and you thought who would want to tinker with this, me
@trajonduclos7931
@trajonduclos7931 2 ай бұрын
This was loads of fun to watch. Basically with the third leg disconnected, your rotor has to push through 33% of the stator windings with momentum, developed from the first two oscillating magnetic fields. By adding the cap, you are delaying one of the phases to that third leg and inducing a field on the final 33% of the windings ~roughly~ in phase with a proper 3 phase power supply. Once you have achieved sufficient momentum to overcome the dead area(plus the competing windings) then the motor will continue to function. This will not pull a heavy load, it will tend to stall once per revolution, more and more, the heavier the load. This trick is used in a lot of European electrical cabinets, on industrial equipment. Typically on cooling fans. However they just solder a "running cap" across the legs. This eliminates the tendency of "starting cap" failure. And provides a continuous phase delay for cheap.
@therandomfarmer4231
@therandomfarmer4231 2 ай бұрын
Glad you liked it. I had been thinking about starting them with a start capacitor and then switching over to a run capacitor to be able to actually use the motor for something. Any insight on what size run capacitor I should be shooting for?
@RienPot
@RienPot 2 ай бұрын
​@therandomfarmer4231 for running 60-80 uf is apropriate for 3hp motor
@MyJp1983
@MyJp1983 2 ай бұрын
Name plate current is full load amps or FLA. So a 5 hp motor doing 5 hp worth of work, draws 4.4 amps @ 480v. A 3ph motor operated on 1 ph is about 2/3 as efficient, so a 10 hp can do about 6 hp worth of work without overheating or stalling. Thanks for the great info and videos!
@funone8716
@funone8716 Ай бұрын
I built a 30hp RPC back in 1980, before the internet, with no info available other than an old guy had an old diy 5hp unit in his garage. I did a lot of guessing but figured it out. The 30hp motor was wired for 440 but I fed it 220. I used a 1/3hp 'pony motor' to spin up the 30hp motor. Run caps to balance voltage. It worked! I went to 3 different electric motor shops to ask them questions, and then tell them I got it working. They all said IT WILL NEVER WORK and "you're crazy that's impossible". Goes to show what happens when 'smart' people don't ever think out of the box.
@donniedale3522
@donniedale3522 2 ай бұрын
If you are like me and only have single phase power, and you have a 3 phase welder and a large lathe and a mill, you can use this to provide the third leg of power to achieve three phase power to run your equipment. When you are done you can turn it off and you are not paying a monthly bill for the priviledge of having 3 phase power in your shop. Been using this for years.
@KevinCoop1
@KevinCoop1 2 ай бұрын
This is everything that is what is called a rotary phase converter. Secret, you do not need the capacitor. Put a rope pulley on the shaft, wrap a rope around it, give it a pull to get it turning, hit it with power and it will run. The caps and controller are better. So, no you do not want to put a load in it. It has way less power. So, if you take conductors from the three leads to a 3 phase panel, you can run motors off of it. Just for reference, if you start with a 20hp 3 phase to a panel, you can easily run 22hp of three phase off the panel. This is per my discussions with Roto-phase Company years ago. The first one I ever saw, the owner said his electric bill was very low. He was using it in a truss manufacturing building.
@chucksmalfus9623
@chucksmalfus9623 2 ай бұрын
Absolutely correct, I built several in the early 70s for friends, first one I built used a rope around a pulley to start it spinning then hit the power, later ones I used a starting capacitor through a timer relay to drop the cap out in half a second.
@donaldpierce7898
@donaldpierce7898 17 күн бұрын
A delta wound motor starting by rotating to motor speed is a rotor phaser, one In the family saw Mill to run networks and cutoff saw
@KevinCoop1
@KevinCoop1 17 күн бұрын
@ The first one I ever saw was supporting a truss manufacturing building.
@dc6233
@dc6233 Ай бұрын
So glad you didn't edit any of that. It earned you a sub.
@kylejuve5494
@kylejuve5494 Ай бұрын
Ten years ago I had a pair of 110 dc motors on 100 ton jacks. No local electrician or motor service could help. When I got them they ran at slightly different speeds…trying to jack railroad cars level to service the wheels etc. Blew one capacitor discovering the rectifier was wired backwards. Guessing values and ordering capacitors from Digikey…nailed it. Matching pair of 100 ton jacks running even up. And down. Love the knowledge sharing 110 tickles 220 hurts 480’ll kill ya
@ovalwingnut
@ovalwingnut 2 ай бұрын
ShOcK & AWE. You R the "3 Phase Motor Whisperer". Just saying. Thank you for the video. Cheers from So.Ca.USA 3rd house on the left (please call before stopping by)
@philipparge8064
@philipparge8064 2 ай бұрын
The three phase invertor I use cost me only 99$p new. Converts 120 single phase to 240 three phase, plus variable speed.
@TomCrockett-bl1gp
@TomCrockett-bl1gp 2 ай бұрын
This is way more interesting than some old movie I’ve watched a dozen times on Netflix.😂
@Randy-c2g6w
@Randy-c2g6w Ай бұрын
Could you show a good pic of the relay used Thanks
@mendozaconsultation
@mendozaconsultation 2 ай бұрын
I have a Question. I have an old 12v motor from my van's rear bench seat that folds down. It has 2 wires that come out of it that gets its power from the car. How can i take it appart and add 2 more wire's so it can be use to get power and give power at the same time.
@Randy-c2g6w
@Randy-c2g6w Ай бұрын
Have a old bridgeport on the farm.Not sure if its a delta or wye have it wire for low voltage going to get capictor and relay see if i can fire her up Thanks
@joshuatylergeorge
@joshuatylergeorge 2 ай бұрын
Very neat experiment, always wondered if you could start a three phase motor single phased with caps, I’ve pull started motors with rope before when they lost a phase in a cable lol
@therandomfarmer4231
@therandomfarmer4231 2 ай бұрын
Did they continue to run with the missing phase after you got them started?
@joshuatylergeorge
@joshuatylergeorge 2 ай бұрын
@ yes, definitely not a long term solution tho
@kencabanaw4165
@kencabanaw4165 2 ай бұрын
The phase converter that runs my 1.5hp air compressor in the garage takes 2 capacitors and a potential relay and does this inside a fancy enclosure. but it does run a load.
@johnmckee7937
@johnmckee7937 2 ай бұрын
Very informative! I learned a lot thanks.
@dantecastro1573
@dantecastro1573 10 күн бұрын
Can you make single phase to 3 phase rotary phase converter sir?
@ShannonGriffin-v1t
@ShannonGriffin-v1t 2 ай бұрын
Fun to watch and insightful. Thank you
@MichaelBerry-dd2eh
@MichaelBerry-dd2eh 2 ай бұрын
I had to do this to run motors on an old bucket truck. Works great.
@therandomfarmer4231
@therandomfarmer4231 2 ай бұрын
Sounds like you beat me to the punch haha
@hillwooky
@hillwooky Ай бұрын
Nice! You need a momentary switch for your cap wire.
@gato6100
@gato6100 Ай бұрын
Can I use this unbalanced three phase power just to test 3 phase machines?
@pauljanssen7594
@pauljanssen7594 Ай бұрын
You can use a three phase motor more horsepower rated than the one you're trying to run, use a small motor to get it up to speed turn the electricity on to 3-phase motor and then turn your what will you call a pony motor off and you now have three phase.
@wdmm94
@wdmm94 2 ай бұрын
I assume you put the two caps in parallel? to increase capacitance? I also think you were thinking of the capacitor sizing wrong. You are hooking up a 220 volt 3 phase to 220 single phase. You are sort of making it a single phase by default. I would think the same capacitor rules would apply. The only difference with a 3 phase is three 120 degree out of phase alternating polarity 220volt windings that induce a rotating magnetic field that pushes (or pulls) the rotor. It doesn't need the starting kick that a single phase does because they are all out of sync. A single phase will just hum without a capacitor and start windings to give it a kick. I have also seen many very old motors that just have start windings with kickout contact points - the start windings are offset from the main stator windings. You are essentially turning 1/3 of the stator into a start winding circuit for a single phase.
@dizzydinonysius
@dizzydinonysius 2 ай бұрын
It’s intuitive to think that dropping one phase would leave the motor with about 2/3 of its horsepower, but in reality, it often results in much less than that. Running a three-phase motor on single-phase power usually yields only about 50-55% of its rated horsepower, and sometimes even less, depending on the load and setup. Running a three-phase motor on single-phase power reduces its horsepower to about half due to imbalanced magnetic fields, increased slip, higher current draw, and the limitations of capacitor phase-shifting. I just bought this guy recently... VEVOR 3 Phase Converter - 10HP 30A 220V Single Phase to 3 Phase Converter, Digital Phase Shifter Worth every penny. $300
@PaynePaintAndBodywork
@PaynePaintAndBodywork 2 ай бұрын
What are you running on it
@dizzydinonysius
@dizzydinonysius 2 ай бұрын
@@PaynePaintAndBodywork Air compressor.
@PaynePaintAndBodywork
@PaynePaintAndBodywork 2 ай бұрын
@dizzydinonysius if you don't mind I would like to know more in detail what you were running. The type of motor perhaps approximate age. And the horsepower of the motor your running . And of course what kind of compressor pump.. I have a big Quincy 325 with the five horsepower 3-phase. I was thinking about buying what you got. Some people say you need twice the size that your motor is ..then a dude said he has been running one for 5 years .. a 5hp on a 5hp venor..
@dizzydinonysius
@dizzydinonysius 2 ай бұрын
@@PaynePaintAndBodywork I have a quincy with a 5hp 3 phase. I decided on buying the 10 hp converter for overkill. I didn't want to worry about anything that would cause shutdowns, hasn't tripped up so far - even once. It has been almost two years.
@TheJohndeere466
@TheJohndeere466 Ай бұрын
When you disconnect a wire from a 3 phase motor, you actually loose 2 phases
@Don_P.717
@Don_P.717 2 ай бұрын
I think a static phase converter would have run caps between the higher leg and missing leg... I was thinking I remembered about 80uf/hp but you quoted about that for the start caps so it might be fuzzy memory, wear protection :D
@robertboyd3863
@robertboyd3863 Ай бұрын
LOL IT is so simple to just run another 220 motor and steal a leg from it , my friend used to run his machine shop that way
@Fluffberymoff
@Fluffberymoff 2 ай бұрын
200w @ 480v needs a 4 to 6 uf run capacitor 1kw @ 480v needs a 6 to 10 uf run capacitor.
@kahvac
@kahvac 2 ай бұрын
Things change dramatically when you start adding a load.
@therandomfarmer4231
@therandomfarmer4231 2 ай бұрын
I've been thinking about doing a loaded test. I'm thinking if I add run caps to the third leg I could get it pretty close on where the hp needs to be to be able to run with a load.
@Mcc1956
@Mcc1956 2 ай бұрын
That's what she said
@jimschaffroth5652
@jimschaffroth5652 2 ай бұрын
Isn't that all rotary phase converters are? A bank of capacitors?
@therandomfarmer4231
@therandomfarmer4231 2 ай бұрын
It is partially that but also with a start circuit to get that initial start. Shafts are typically cut off as well.
@thepubliceye
@thepubliceye 2 ай бұрын
You can lose a leg once a 3-ph motor is running and it will keep going until the overloads kick out. I think the current draw goes up by 30%
@gungadinn
@gungadinn 2 ай бұрын
For a milling machine, you can get away with removing the third leg, but you've lost 1/3 of the horse power. Different story if powering a lathe due to the flywheel effect. If only powering a mill, a static phase converter is fine. If running a lathe or multiple pieces of equipment, a rotary phase converter is IMO, the ONLY way to go.
@Nudnik1
@Nudnik1 Ай бұрын
Will overheat under load. Power factor real bad with one phase out.
@danapicray9040
@danapicray9040 2 ай бұрын
I’ve replaced many three motors that lost a leg and burned up
@jimvellios1426
@jimvellios1426 2 ай бұрын
nice hack.
@Randy-c2g6w
@Randy-c2g6w Ай бұрын
C
@josephsaucedo8691
@josephsaucedo8691 2 ай бұрын
A vfd controller is one of the easiest safest ways also cut you electrical coast down to. That a Bolder motor one of the best bands in my opinion for a electrical motor. 3phase 480 the cheapest way to run any thing in electrical. Even though every one thing it's more expensive wich is totally wrong . Less amp that what you get charged for. If ran in 110 it's like 3x the amp usage.💯🫡👍✌️
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