Running DPU's on My N-Scale Layout

[@jacko9759]

Thanks Roy, I've learned something NEW today,, never heard the term and yes I used to run them on my layout not knowing just what to call them, but with DC it was a lot harder as you had to match the pulling power of the cars and engines all the time that even harder than speed matching on DCC, Thanks again for sharing....

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Tom. It seems like we all learn bunches of new things as we go along in the hobby. Certainly, some aspects of the hobby have a pretty steep learning curves. Speed matching, for example, is especially challenging and mostly done by trial-and-error. It takes a lot of time to do, and it has to be done in order to run lash-ups, but it's not a fun thing to do. ...Roy

[@jerrysmith1929]

Nice explanation of DPU's. One of the advantages for prototype operation you didn't mention is the reduction of stress on couplers. In long heavy trains the strains on couplers could cause them to fail, but a mid-train DPU can better distribute those stresses. You mentioned you find speed matching unpleasant to do. I haven't used one yet but I've noted some modelers have found a device called AccuTrack makes the task easier. It accurately measures the speed of each locomotive thus making adjustments possible with less fiddling.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Jerry. You're right about the reduction in stress on couplers. I neglected to mention it in the video. As for speed matching, I find it to be less fun than wiring or ballasting, two tasks which many model railroaders mention as their least favorite parts of the hobby. Speed matching involves a lot of trial-and-error and a lot of time, and it seldom turns out perfectly. I do have an Accutrack II speedometer, and it's a handy-dandy thing to have. I like it because it shows me in scale miles-per-hour how fast my trains are going, depending on the speed steps on throttle. We tend to run our trains too fast, especially in N-scale. I run my master locomotive through the speedometer and then adjust it to prototypical speeds by adjusting the CV settings for CV's 2, 6, and 5 in JMRI. Then I set the speedometer aside and match the other locos in the consist to the master loco, again using JMRI. ...Roy

[@trainmanbob]

Another great video Roy. Thank you. I am learning more and more about American railroads every time I tune in to your channel. Cheers, Bob

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks for watching, Bob. Running a layout according to the practices of real American railroads can be a lot of fun. ...Roy

[@DruSteel69]

Good to know. Learned new stuff everyday. Thanks Roy. - Drew

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Drew. One of the best things about model railroading is the way we in the hobby can share our experiences with each other. ...Roy

[@conductortomrentschler4802]

No never have but i will try it thank you

[@CDaisy-tp7hw]

I'm not a model railroader myself but I have a friend that has a really fantastic N scale layout. It takes up an entire two-car garage. He wanted to add some realism to his layout so he threw a graffiti party. He had prints of actual graffiti and we painted a bunch of his cars to look just like the photos. It made for a very interesting evening. And not easy. Tiny little rail cars and you can only paint the bottom one-third.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

I haven't weathered or added graffiti to any of my rolling stock just yet, C. Daisy, but it certainly does add to the prototypical look of model trains. ...Roy

[@williamarseneau1575]

Good video Roy! DPUs can also be controlled individually by putting up a fence on his computer screen. This allows the engineer to control each one separately. For example, after the lead powers is over the summit, and is Appling their DBs, the DPUs can continue to shove. This helps to controls check run in and out so as to lessen the chance breaking draw bars. On my railroad, the helpers are in trained at Nampa, Id and removed at Hinkle, Oregon. They can be manned or DPUd as nessasry. They are also a good location for deadheading crews. Really nice video Roy and I ejoyed watching it. Not too in the future I'll try to get the video of my soda ash train with 5 units in the lead with 5 helpers in the middle of a 52 car train. It's up and running on the layout but I need to shoot it. Stay tuned buddy, it's coming. .. Bill

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks for your comment, William, and thanks for watching. You're right about "a fence." I guess I didn't mention it in the video, because I didn't want to get too "technical." But you make a good point about it. I'm looking forward to seeing your soda ash train, because most of the soda ash produced in the U.S. is produced just 20 miles or so west of Green River, Wyoming. ...Roy

[@codyandrew2029]

One thing to mention is that DPUs also allow for longer trains. With EOTs up north we are normally limited to 10,000 if we are conventional. However having a mid-train remote allows us to extend too our maximum length of 14,000 feet or so.

[@randysrockandrollrailroad8207]

Hey Roy, as always good to see trains running on your layout, thanks for sharing the info on the DPU's

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

It's always a pleasure, Randy. Thanks for watching. ...Roy

[@johnarigot1701]

I learned something today.Thank you.locally here we only have short line trains.

[@cyrusalivox]

Your list of benefits of DPU's didn't include what I always thought was the main benefit: they reduce the loads on the couplers. Without DPU's, a 100-car train with all its power up front has a LOT of load on that first car's couplers!

[@miguelllorentesanz2035]

I never see the DPU,thanks Sr Roy

[@kathybennett4371]

love it!

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks for watching, Kathy. I have a long list of videos I'd like to put together. So keep on watching. ...Roy

[@petewahkoowah2652]

Excellent video with proper use of technology. Drone footage. I agree, speed control is somewhat of a pain because getting the locomotives to match speeds requires patience. If one locomotive is off even by a little, it might either be dragged or it might be pushing the whole affair. Which can cause the aforementioned derailments. However, there is no denying the added realism of adding DPU's to a long consist of coal hoppers for example. Your layout is beautiful and you should be very proud of your artistic abilities. I enjoyed it very much. 🚇🇺🇸

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks so much, Pete, I appreciate your comment. As you say, speed matching is critical for running multiple units and DPU's. But doing it is also a pain, because it's mainly done by trial and error. I wish the manufacturers of DCC would invent and easy way to do speed matching. ...Roy

[@randypiasecki4161]

Hi Roy, Great info video on the use of DPU's. Since I model the Rio Grande, I use helpers to get freight up the mountain pass. I plan to add a new flood loader coal mine to the layout which will be serviced by BNSF. I plan to use DPU's on that coal train. Thanks for sharing this video with us! Randy

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Randy. It's a pleasure. DPU's look great running on a modern-era layout, and I have to think that running helpers, as you do, would be a lot of fun. ...Roy

[@redbirdtony2010]

Nice video Roy like the explanation as well as showing us what the purpose of DPUs are and how you can use them on a model railroad

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Tony. This was another fun-video to make. It's always fun to try to apply prototypical practices on our model railroads. ...Roy

[@trevhawk9250]

Around here in MOntana, the Montana Rail Link uses Helper units still for there two grades at 2.2 and 1.8 percent. The 2.2 uses four ACes in the middle and the 1.8 uses three ACes pushing.

[@richroylance4630]

Thank you, Roy.... maybe, you can comment on this. From my observations, if I see a midtrain DPU, there won't be one at the end of the train. If I don't see a midtrain DPU, then sometimes,I see an end of train DPU...but, I never see both together....

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Rich, this is a great question. I hadn't thought of it before reading your comment, so I don't know the answer. However, I've begun to do some research, and from that research, it appears to me that DPU's can run somewhere within AND/OR at the end of trains, implying that they can be run at both spots in a train at the same time. I guess I'll have to ask a real engineer friend of mine. Anyhow, thanks for asking. You've raised my curiosity. ...Roy

[@jamesyoung1320]

Nice video, Roy . I think that most, if not all, model train manufacturers have gotten away from offering dummy locomotives . Running them as DPUs would be a perfect use for them .

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

You're right, James. It would be great to have some dummy units to run as DPU's. That would eliminate the excessive pushing and shoving caused by DPU's that are not perfectly speed-matched. As for MU's at the head of trains, though, I need at least two powered units to haul my trains up those 2-percent grades. ...Roy

[@PeterCPRail8748]

Always fun watching multi loco units, but I do agree speed matching is a bitch and tedious. You pulled it off very nicely.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Peter. If it weren't for the need to speed-match, I would run DPU's more often. Speed-matching is one of my least favorite tasks in the hobby. ...Roy

[@dacuzzz]

hi Roy.. i have run DPU"S both at the end & also at mid train... never had any problems with derailments... nice vid.. vinny

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

That's good to hear, Vinny. I'm glad that you are successfully running DPU's. And with no derailment problems. Derailments tend to take the fun out of running trains. ...Roy

[@Mercatoyd]

great presentation Roy, I'm sure this video has inspired someone to consider this lash up also. Tom

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Tom. This was another fun-video to put together. Putting together DPU's is also fun. ...Roy

[@modernmodeler16productions97]

Hi Roy, in the video you mentioned that dpu's do what the lead loco does. I though I'd mention to you that they are often run at different notches (speeds) or are differently braking than the head end in order to add or subtract from the slack action and weight of the train. Great video! -John

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks for the information on how DPU's function, John. I really appreciate it, because I want to operate my layout as prototypically as I can. ...Roy

[@richpagano9856]

Going from a large house and HO scale layout to a small condo and decided N scale would be best choice. Hated to tear up the HO layout after 12 years, but it could not be avoided. Sold all HO locos and rolling stock and gave away all structures. Will watch your videos to get some guidance on next steps for N scale.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Rich, it sounds to me like you made a wise decision when you switched to N-scale. In truth, I suspect that many N-scalers would not switch to HO-scale even if they had unlimited space. I've seen some huge N-scale layouts in spaces that could've accommodated HO-scale layouts. ...Roy

[@michaeljennings6647]

Norfolk southern called it mid train

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Michael. ...Roy

[@WilliamSpitzer]

How did you program all headlights to go on - Rear DPU?

[@KawaiiLlama-dh5wt]

Hi Roy. Another great video, love watching those long modern trains on your amazing layout. One question I have for you is how common are derailments on your layout (they don't seem to happen at all). Did you anything specifically in the design and construction of the layout to ensure minimal derailment disruptions particularly with your long consists mixed with helixes and broad curves. And do you run metal wheelsets on your rolling stock or have any other operating tricks to prevent derailments. As always, already looking forward to your next video.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Ella. It's fun to run those long modern trains. No, I don't have too many derailments. I would like to say they never happen, because derailments tend to take the fun out of running trains. As you probably know, I use Kato Unitrack on my layout, and that seems to help a lot. And, yes, I use metal wheels on my cars. Some cars, such as Katos, come with them already installed. I have installed, or am in the process of installing them, on all of my cars that came with plastic wheels. Another thing I like to do is add weight to the cars, even exceeding the NMRA weight standards. Many cars tend to be too light in N-scale and therefore tend to derail easier. ...Roy

[@richardk5849]

Great video. Running DPU’s successfully myself. All Kato on n-scale with trains around 23’.

[@scott17601]

Wouldn't it be possible to make up a dummy shell loco for the middle of the train and the end. It would give you the look of a DPU without the liability of speed matching and greater derailment risk.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

That certainly would be better than speed matching, Scott. I guess nobody produces dummy locos anymore, but maybe it's possible to create them. ...Roy

[@BenGust]

Too true

[@Perfusionist01]

very nice work Roy. I SHOULD run DPUs on my modern stuff as both RRs that I model in the modern era (UP and BNSF) use them regularly. UP runs them on many kinds of trains and BNSF has them on almost all coal trains, crude oil and ethanol tank trains and many grain trains. Like you I don't like speed matching and tend to put it off. DPU sets MUST be properly speed matched to perform properly and not push the train off the tracks. It SEEMS that the more common failure on model DP{Us is that the lead unit(s) will pause or stop while the rear DPU is still pushing causing the train to fold like an accordion (as many bad words are said!).

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Gary. I appreciate your comment. Yes, indeed, I'm starting to run DPU's on my layout for the very reason you mentioned: that's what modern-era prototypes do. But mostly, I will just continue to run multiple-units at the head of my trains, because it's easier than DPU's. I dislike speed matching even more than wiring or ballasting, which are the two things most modelers mention as their least favorite tasks. It's even more important that DPU's be perfectly speed matched than MU's, but speed matching is mostly a process of trial-and-error and almost never turns out perfectly. Hence, a lot of pushing and shoving and resultant derailments. I always end up having to edit the "bad words" out of my videos. ...Roy

[@Jmerlo21]

How do I run my trains facing forwards and backwards like you do at the front of the train?

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Jordan, I set up a consist of the two locomotives on my NCE PowerCab, with the lead locomotive facing forward and the rear locomotive facing backward. ...Roy

[@jasonhowe1697]

on consists of 200-300 cars or more ya be looking at 3-4x2-3x2-3x3-4 every 50-75 cars and all locos have a driving in each set even if they don't do anything the entire trip.. what you have there wouldn't see the light of day if you doing the consist period correct it likely be 2-1-2 or 3-2-3 if running 200 cars consist most likely go 3-50-2-50-2-50-2-50-3 or 4-50-3-50-3-50-3-50-4 on ore trains

[@jerrysmith1929]

Not sure if it was a typo, but by "driving" was your intention to say "a driver" in each set of locomotives? As someone mentioned there may be a crew person in a DPU, but this is for deadheading crews and not for controlling the DPU. Remote control by the engineer in the lead loco eliminates the need for communications between crews and consequently is more efficient than using multiple crews. In some situations where additional power is needed for a limited location helpers may still be used so the locomotive set can be returned to the bottom of the grade to await the next train. This is common practice on the Joint Line between Denver and Colorado Springs. Helpers are cut out of the train at Palmer Lake after helping trains make the climb out of Denver. South of Denver grades are less demanding and the additional power is no long needed, so it is returned to Denver. So far as the distribution of numbers of units, I've noted all sorts of combinations, including a mid train DPU's with no additional locomotive on the rear. Not being a railroader myself, I'm guessing operating practices vary between railroads and regions.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks for your comment, Jason. I appreciate it. Boy, I wish I could trains that long with that many DPU's on my layout. ...Roy

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks for your comment, Jerry. It's always good to hear from you. You make a good point about a crew person sometimes being in a DPU. You're observations about DPU's on the Joint Line are fascinating. Thanks for sharing them. ...Roy

[@jasonhowe1697]

jerry you will need a crew set per engine set more as a safety option as control by wire has its limitations, I Live in Australia we often 100+ car sets saying that, I have no clue how they freight haul in the USA I can only go in what I have seen to me Roy you can likely scale this at 25-35 cars per loco set at very least of 3/25/2/25/2/25/2/25/3 or 4/25/3/25/3/25/3/25/4 though 50-75 car would be prototypical in the real world on both coal and ore trains I don't know where they would do an consist of 2/25/1/25/1 typically 3/25/2/25/3 or 4/25/3/25/4 it is your layout you do want you want Roy though having grown up around the rail and rail yards in my early years I would have to say though if you truly want to emulate real life in the scale model you run you might want to consider adding more power units to the consist if you are having power issues Gary you may need to upgrade your wiring if you intend to run as they do in real life you will likely need to start adding modular power solution because your power consist most likely exceeds the available power within the line.. speed matching may fix 1 issue though I suspect if you are finding power lacking and a cut in power to the locos to me it sounds like you are likely going above the power capacity you can provide to the track ...

[@jerrysmith1929]

There are variations in operating practices between railroads within the USA so it isn't surprising they may do it differently in Autstrailia.

[@markhayes6407]

Like my coal trains I do the same including rear dimmed lighting. Your running Kato engines that helps with speed matching I have found easier to do using them.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks for your comment, Mark. I like running DPU's because it looks so prototypical, but I still don't like speed matching very much. ...Roy

[@billymcnutt116]

Thank you Roy for another great video. Here in BNSF country end-of-train DPUs are almost always present on unit coal trains. However I haven't seen mid-train DPUs. I was wondering if mid-train DPUs are common on the UP.

[@stevenrupp9190]

Great video. I too don't enjoy speed matching. Could you do a video on how you do it, please

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Steven. Yes, I can do a video about speed matching, at least one outlining the steps. In fact, it's on my list of to-do videos. Actually, it's been on the list for quite some time, so I guess I have to get busy and do it, sooner or later. ...Roy

[@larryberger9440]

You could remove the guts of the DPU loco and have it just coast along as if it were a hopper car. ?? would that work?

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

I don’t know, Larry. It ought to work. I think I will try it with an old loco that doesn’t run anymore. One disadvantage might be that it won’t be possible to turn on the loco’s rear-facing headlight. ...Roy

[@apgirl7454]

on my old layout I run helper engines since I like steam locomotives^^ it was a 23 014 at the front and a 93 series at the back. I still have the 93 series somewhere but the 23 014 is currently standing on my desk. and btw, the numbers are for german steam locomotive types^^

[@M22OHIO]

You're layout is awesome really well done. Mines an HO scale layout that is an industry switching layout so I don't get to run cool things like DPU's.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks so much for your comment. I really appreciate it. I don't often run DPU's on my layout, but I like it when I do because it looks so prototypical. ...Roy

[@SkyCharger001]

I've seen a 'cograil'-helper being used in 2000/2001 at the station serving (among other things) the ski-resort I was staying with the rest of my school. (it was cheaper to let the helper grip the rack then equipping all the trains with the cog and let them do it on their own as most didn't even serve the place.)

[@jestillwell1964]

It might have been me telling you about the multi units at the front and back I see on the UP line near my house. I remember watching your video of all the locos you had speed matched in pairs. Agh, now 4 to match.

[@boobook3884]

great vid Roy love long trains with dpus...I will be having very long trains on my layout and dpus are a must...keep up the great work....when will you be working on the unfinished parts of your layout?...Gary

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks, Gary. Running DPU's certainly is a lot of fun and very prototypical-looking. I really want to get to work on those unfinished areas of my layout. To do that, I may have to cut back in time-consuming video making (haha!). ...Roy

[@NiceMuslimLady]

Another comment, "helper" units continued to be used well into the diesel era. In fact, the SP derailment at Duffy St the units on the rear were helper units, not DPUs. There are many videos of the oil cans running with helper units. I have also, on occasion seen trains stall along the Cajon routes stall and require helper units.

[@NiceMuslimLady]

On the rear end DPU, I have never seen on the prototype with the ditch lights turned on, only on the lead unit. Normally, the headlight is set to dim.

[@jetsmasher]

Great video- thanks! Why do DPU's and second/third locomotives face backward?

[@NiceMuslimLady]

No reason. It just happens sometimes, such as on this train.

[@kemer1977]

The way trailing motors face doesn't have any specific purpose. It's just the direction they were facing when they were coupled up. Having them all face the same way doesn't matter. The motors put out the same amount of power and dynamic braking force regardless of the direction they're going. So spending time to turn them all in the same direction would really be a waste. We only worry about which way the leader is facing.

[@SkyCharger001]

in real life it could be a sign of it being a Temporarily Joined Train

[@kemer1977]

That's an impressive layout. It looks like you're really striving for realism. In that respect, may I make a small recommendation on that coal train set-up? I work the Cima and Caliente subdivisions, have worked countless coal trains, both loaded heading west, and empties going east. We don't run mid train DPUs on our coal trains. They're all either 2x1, 3x1, or 2x2, head end and rear end DPUs, but no entrained DPUs. We run the entrained DPUs on our manifest and intermodal trains. Anyways, hope this helps and keep up the good work.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Thanks so much for your comment. I really appreciate your information about coal trains. ...Roy

[@davidpope1735]

Did you experience any derailments while running the dpu's?

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Yes, I did, David, most frequently in turnouts, of course. The solution seems to be adding weight to each car. And, naturally, the locos must be carefully speed matched. ...Roy

[@collinsullivan1517]

Hey Roy, send a link to where I can get a drone like the one you used for your video. :-) Great video!

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Haha! The drone works great. Everybody should have one. ...Roy

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

How do you control the DPUs to run backward while the lead loco runs forward?

[@kathybennett4371]

You should make a mountain side bridge! Like if you agree!

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

That sounds like a great idea to me, Kathy. I try to create what I see on the prototype I'm modeling. ...Roy

[@earlhamil731]

Are all four locos using same address or do you consist them?

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Earl, I consist my locos when running them as multiple units or as DPU's using my NCE PowerCab. ...Roy

[@JoelHudson]

Wow such a silent drone! Was it hand cranked??

[@fwrw]

Also I model in H0 scale I enjoy your videos as there is so much I can take for H0 scale from every video. Speaking of helpers. Helpers are still pretty common in Germany for example on the Frankenwald ramp (electric power). Helpers start vom Pressig and Probstzella and disembark at Steinbach am Wald to return to their sidings in Pressig and Rothenkirchen. You can see this here kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWiWgmSwftKcZ9E for example with the disembarked locomotive on her way to the siding, returning shortly after (after the passenger train) with a container service uphill.

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

I agree completely, Matthias. No matter what scale we choose to model in, we can learn from others in the hobby. Although I model in N-scale, I like HO-scale equally. ...Roy

[@taylorbaggarleyunionpacifi5399]

I run dpu my Spokane sub layout if chase the train long if union pacfic I see does 2 or one if don't have lot of power my ho scale layout

[@thegreypenguin5097]

I refuse to run mu's unless the two locomotives are the exact same model. (i. e. 2 EMD SD70aces or 2 GE ES44ACs

[@dakotashowalter5949]

Do you have any steam trains

[@n-scaleunionpacificevansto6569]

Not right now, Dakota, because I'm modeling a modern era layout. However, I may eventually buy a steam locomotive and older era passenger cars to run an occasional excursion train on my layout. ...Roy