Russia's Plan to Restore Byzantium in The 18th Century

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Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/romabooramblings
Footage:
Rise of Empires: Ottomans (2020)
Napoleon (2023)
Charlemagne (2021)
Catherine: The Ascension (2016)
Catherine (2014)
Catherine: The Pretenders (2019)
Catherine the Great (2019)
Vikings (2013 - 2020)
Viking (2016)
Cyril and Methodius. The Apostles of the Slavs (2013)
Music:
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart - Clemency of Titus
Europe Universalis IV Soundtrack - Voyage
Europe Universalis IV Soundtrack - New King Arrives
Europe Universalis IV Soundtrack - Ride Forth Victoriously
Europe Universalis IV Soundtrack - Battle of Lepanto
Imperator Rome: Soundtrack - Mediterranean
Europe Universalis IV Soundtrack - The Empire Divided
Europe Universalis IV Soundtrack - At The Gates of Constantinople
Europe Universalis IV Soundtrack - Off To War
Literature:
- Sergey Ivanov, Catherine the Great’s Byzantium, Quaestio Rossica 9, June 2021
- Ragsdale, Hugh. “Evaluating the Traditions of Russian Aggression: Catherine II and the Greek Project.” The Slavonic and East European Review, vol. 66, no. 1, 1988, pp. 91-117.
Catherine's letters (In original French):
catcor.seh.ox.ac.uk/texts/
- Catherine II. (1787). Zapiski kasatel’no Rossiiskoi istorii v 7 ch. [Notes on Russian
History. 7 Parts]. St Petersburg, Imperatorskaya tipografiya. Part 1. 416 p.
- Catherine II. (1878). Pis’ma Imperatritsy Ekateriny II baronu Mel’khioru Grimmu
(gody s 1774 po 1796) [The Letters of Empress Catherine II to Baron Melchior Grimm
from 1774 to 1796]. St Petersburg Tipografiya Imperatorskoi Akademii nauk. 734 p.
- Catherine II. (1901). Sochineniya imperatritsy Ekateriny II na osnovanii podlinnykh
rukopisei v 12 t. [The Writings of Empress Catherine II from her Genuine Manuscripts.
12 Vols.]. St Petersburg, Izdatel’stvo Imperatorskoi аkademii nauk. Vol. 2. Dramaticheskie
sochineniya. 547 p.
00:00 Intro
00:36 Russia in the XVIII Century
01:33 The Ottoman Empire in the XVIII Century
02:33 Catherine
04:43 The First War
05:47 The Greeks and the Southern Ambitions
07:50 Hellenic Fashion
10:50 European Diplomacy
13:14 The Plans
19:57 The Second War
21:28 Catherine's "Byzantium"
24:49 Legacy of the Greek Project
26:33 Outro

[@thenamesianna]

Rome and the US could have existed at the same time. Incredible.

[@NicCageCDXX]

the fact that Christopher Columbus was alive when the Roman Empire was taking its final breaths is still pretty mind-boggling.

[@ryanfarrelly4647]

HRE

[@Imperium_Romanum]

@@ryanfarrelly4647HRE wasn’t the Roman Empire, it was a collection of states.

[@PhyrexJ]

@ZoomerStasiHRE is only Roman in name.

[@lythd]

@@ryanfarrelly4647 not the same. the byzantines were as roman as they could have been, as they were just the eastern half. they kept their institutions, although modernized. the hre did not use roman institutions as it wasnt even mostly on roman land, so its really only roman in terms of inheritance.

[@Sarmaticus]

Very interesting topic and you covered it well, and the graphics are also very good. Adding Eu4 soundeffects was a nice touch.

[@RomabooRamblings]

Thank you. If only I didn't make that unforgivable error by giving the all-important 3-house shtetl of Smierdzącywąwózskoe to Austria on my 1772 map...

[@Sarmaticus]

@@RomabooRamblingsAlthough it was a good video, my hand was literally hovering over the unsubscribe button the whole time because of that unforgivable error.

[@johnjaeger2968]

The declaration of war 😅 Russia truly knew that AE was just a number. Well, until the Crimean war

[@basicinfo8786]

@@RomabooRamblings Do not believe any of these rumors, Byzantium is a natural enemy of Russia, not only do they not seek it, but when the Greeks tried to resurrect it in 1922, the Russians fought them

[@bastait]

@@RomabooRamblingsare you still making content? i hope so i love this channel.

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

The Vlach Prince, part of the Vlacho-Byzantine dynasty of Cantacuzino, tried to restore the Byzantine Empire. Radu Cantacuzino, of whom later changed his name to Ioannes Rodulphus, princeps Contacuzenus Angelus Flavius Comnenus, he tried to restore his throne in Wallachia, and his brother Constantin Cantacuzino on the Serbian throne. From there he wanted to take Constantinople and crown himself Emperor. He founded also a new military order, "Holy Angelic Illustrious Imperial Order of the Great Holy Martyr St. George" and claimed to represent the legitimate grand master of the "Sacred Military Constantinian Order of Saint George".

[@raulpetrascu2696]

He claimed a lot but wasn't really taken seriously. Interesting story though

[@BringBackCyrillicBG]

We meet again, fellow from Romania 🤝

[@rawka_7929]

​@@BringBackCyrillicBGBro... You're Romanian??? Also, hello to you both.

[@MrAmhara]

The Byzantine Empire was a joke .

[@zippyparakeet1074]

​@@MrAmhara if Eastern Rome was a joke then the entire Turkish history is a circus.

[@NicCageCDXX]

The aftermath of the French Revolution and Napoleonic Wars ending the plans to restore the Eastern Roman Empire always is quite funny to me, given that Napoleon had a descendant of the Komemnian Dynasty, Demetrio Stefanopoli, ready to be placed on the throne of a restored Greek state, possibly even centered out of Constantinople.

[@RomabooRamblings]

Yeah, good point. Probably, "falling out of fashion" wasn't a good wording, it's more like "taking 2nd stage". Same with Napoleon's plan, which was somewhat of an afterthought, a reserve option in case there's an opportunity to gain something in the Balkans.

[@ikengaspirit3063]

@@RomabooRamblings What if, Napoleonic - Caterine restoration of Rome?.

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

@@ap7467 where can I find more information about them?!

[@Onezy05]

Wait, he did?!?

[@NicCageCDXX]

@@Onezy05 it was a plan to follow a successful Egyptian campaign, agitate for Greek independence in the Balkans, get a loyal puppet state there and use the instability to either conquer or get the Ottomans to cooperate so he could march to India to kick the British out of there to ruin them economically (and definitely not because he was an enormous Romeaboo and Alexanderboo)

[@DeusExMau5]

Damn, we were so close to greatness...

[@gurkeschurke6667]

Don’t know this could’ve caused a massive crash in ottoman society and might have pushed them into something like a „French“ Revolution which could be worse because then you’d have a powerful and vengeful state.

[@CivilizedWasteland]

@@gurkeschurke6667 doubtful, the Orthodox regions were almost half the wealth of the empire if they were gone you'd see the gradual decline that happened in reality happen at an even faster pace. Egypt and Levant would be prime targets for UK and France to gain money after the American revolution and attention on India would be delayed. Also barbary pirates and north Africa would be undefended I'm sure an even more powerful Spain and France would jump to secure it. Then you are reversing nearly 100 years worth of converts, that's that many more Christians in Anatolia with no loyalty to the ottoman empire.

[@user-sm5um8hz4e]

You wouldn't bud. Russia is extremely pathetic shit which could only spam wars and won all anti Turkish wars because Ukrainians hated muslims extremely much. They made up half and more of army and basically carried battles. It was extremely retarded cheap empire which didn't have any chanses to survive. Even Communists and theif genocides were liberation from tsarism which led people in feudal filth 500 years after it started collapsing

[@gurkeschurke6667]

@@CivilizedWasteland You just proved my point

[@CivilizedWasteland]

@@gurkeschurke6667 they wouldnt be powerful though, they would be reduced to a rump state

[@darkfool2000]

Of course she doesn't call it the Byzantine Empire, that's a relatively modern convention. The earliest use of Byzantine to refer to the Eastern Roman Empire was in the 1400s by a Greek historian, but that didn't become a common term for it until the 1800s. Calling it the Greek Empire, was the fashion at the time.

[@vanmars5718]

Greek empire or simple Greece is how it's referred in much of Europe (Weste, Scandinavia, Slavs) since the 8th century, that's true.

[@turkcukayi]

This was simply a conspiracy to deprive Byzantium of its Roman heritage. They always called themselves Romans.

[@antoniosdimoulas3566]

Either way, referring to as the Greek Empire this is true, and correct, because it used to be the Greek Empire., before the Ottoman Empire. But regardless, the game is still going on…

[@badwolf69420]

Yes, this was the only weak point of the video for me. It stood out like a sore thumb.

[@antonival50]

Proved wrong.

[@EasternRomanHistory]

It is quite interesting to hear about Russia and its relationship with the Byzantines, considering how influenced by them they were. I always find it quite appropriate that of all the king's of Europe, it was Louis XIV that made such an important contribution to research into the Byzantine field with his team of scholars.

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

You should read "Byzantium after Byzantium"

[@kwazooplayingguardsman5615]

Russia, in this, definitely showed that it held dearly Christendom.

[@alexsnow5092]

The sister of the last Byzantine Emperor, Constantine XI Palaiologos, was named Zoe Palaiologina. She married Ivan III, the Grand Prince of Moscow, who is often considered a precursor to the Russian Tsars. She also brought with her a significant portion of the Library of Constantinople as part of her dowry when she married Ivan III, although I heard this part is somehow unclear and debated among historians there is literally a painting with a caravan that depicted that event.

[@str.77]

Alas, Louis XIV also made a huge contribution into messing up Europe.

[@user-vipgxpn]

No surprise: Moscow is the third Rome

[@slightlyfavored4528]

Somebody at Catherine's court, probably: How often do you think about the Roman Empire?

[@MACTEP_CHOB]

🤣 I was thinking the same

[@Onezy05]

Oh yes I've heard of this! The Greek plan. Complete with the classic Danube border and an additional kingdom of Dacia. I wonder if, had the Greek plan been implemented, if Roman identity would have survived in Hellas rather than a Greek identity overtaking it.

[@EndoClaw]

Most likely

[@ChristianAuditore14]

There is no greek culture, then or now, the greek culture is just roman mixed with local traditions

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@ZoomerStasiRuined? More like expanded and spread throughout the world, plus the Macedonians were Greeks themselves.

[@teyrncousland7152]

@@ZoomerStasi ok fixed

[@paulmayson3129]

Roman identity still survives in Greece...

[@alexsnow5092]

The sister of the last Byzantine Emperor, Constantine XI Palaiologos, was named Zoe Palaiologina. She married Ivan III, the Grand Prince of Moscow, who is often considered a precursor to the Russian Tsars. She also brought with her a significant portion of the Library of Constantinople as part of her dowry when she married Ivan III, although I heard this part is somehow unclear and debated among historians there is literally a painting with a caravan that depicted that event.

[@vadimemelin2941]

It's not considered a precursor to the Russian Tsars - It is the original Tzar. Tzar is etymologically equal to German word "caiser" and refers to Julius Caesar

[@alexander63736]

Byzantine royalty married all over. Shah Ismail, founder of the Safavid Persians, had Komnenos blood. It is not a particularly important thing.

[@Spacemongerr]

@@vadimemelin2941 You are correct, except that in German it is kaiser, not caiser. This is because the letter C was pronounced K in latin (and greek). So when people in English say "Julius Seesar", it is incorrect, he himself would have pronounced his name more like Kæsar/Käsar/Kaisar/Kaesar

[@marcusaurelius4941]

​@@alexander63736It's not just about blood, but also about the cultural influence that marriage brought to the newly emerging Russia after centuries of isolation due to the Mongol yoke. And since iirc Zoe originally lived in Italy, that influence was not only Byzantine but Western European as well

[@alexander63736]

@@marcusaurelius4941 So one princess changed the culture of a whole country? Lol, are you crazy? What about the existing Roman culture the Turks inherited simply by coexisting with the Romans for hundreds of years? By your criteria, the Ottomans have a far better claim. And they had royal marriages too.

[@Amun-Re]

Judging by what you've said in the video, Id say the realistic maximum territory for this 'Greek Empire' would have been essentially the territories of Alexios I when he came to the throne, whereas the minimum territory would have been in essence the Empire of Andronikos III+the Bulgarian territories (minus Austrian possessions south of the Danube).

[@avrahamsarcosky6972]

Igual si el imperio nunca hubiera caído ni hubieran pasado las guerras civiles con Juan V creo que es lo máximo que el imperio hubiese aspirado tener.

[@Medvelelet]

Fascinating stuff, I never heard about this! Well researched and neatly put together video. Catherine being a romeboo is hilarious.

[@ntonisa6636]

Interesting stuff, thanks! Being Greek and into history I knew some of the main facts regarding the “Greek Plan” , but not the details regarding Catherine's rather flawed understanding of Roman History or the exact details of the behind the scenes bargaining with the Austrians. By the way, in spite of the financial benefits which the Greek(or rather the Orthodox) merchants gained from the Kucuk Kaynarca treaty, the Orlov Revolt was otherwise an unmitigated disaster for the Greeks, especially in the Morea, who went through what was effectively a localised genocide at the hands of the Sultan's Albanian mercenaries who were sent to suppress the rebellion (members of the Ottoman government also proposed the general massacre of all Greeks throughout the empire but the idea was thankfully rejected). The effect these events had on Greek-Russian relations was also kind of mixed. On one hand the way in which the Russians urged the Greeks to rebel and then left them out to dry was seen as a major betrayal and shameful abandoment by many Greeks who began looking to other powers for help in their future endeavours. On the other hand the Battle of Chesme kickstarted the amazingly successful career of John Varvakis, the Greek pirate turned Russian privateer / Beluga caviar tycoon and later benefactor of the Greek War of Independence and in general marked the start of a very prosperous period for the Greek diaspora in Russia. It probably also did play a role in the rise of philhellenism in western Europe as well. The great German poet and forerunner of the philhellenic movement Friedrich Hölderlin's novel Hyperion was partly inspired by these events.

[@Mardolok]

Love you Orthodox brother from Russia❤

[@kastriotelaago7158]

😂😂 you greeks are creating by rusi what are you talking about we albanians make you a country

[@ntonisa6636]

@@kastriotelaago7158right of course, but wait your comment is a bit confusing was it the Albanians or Russians that made us? ...Or the British? Or the Germans as other Albanian youtube scholars have told me? Why not the Swiss? I guess it depends on which crackpipe you used on that day. I on the other hand happen to use legit sources for everything I say, but let me know what insights you got next time you smoke the good stuff.

[@e.h97]

@@ntonisa6636these 4 superpowers cooperated together to create Greece, Russia(mainly using the church) France and Great Britain (had the role to create the fake history and financial aspect) and Bavaria.

[@e.h97]

Since you are in history , please look on different sources rather then what russia gave to you. Wake up Greeks, your history is not as they told you. They gave you a small piece of the fascinating history you have and you are being over proud with that. Wake up, slavs are stealing 70% of your history and they gave you only 30%. Albanians and greeks are 1. All balkan used to be 1 people. Albanian language is the language kept the closest with the old language, Romanian also. Why greek language is so different from both? Because it was destroyed by these foreign powers. They brought a fake king to you that wasn’t even greek, it was all about control and power. They are making Alexander the great slav, they are making all the fascinating history of the middle and northern part of balkan slav. Wake up from that 30% that they gave to you. And stop hating on Albanians based on what Russian historians gave to you. Albanians and greeks are 1 , the seperation was the religion. They bettayed the fighters who fought for your independence and created a different language from what they spoke , they didn’t fight for what greece is today. Did russians ever tell you that crimea was greek/Albanian/Romanian? No they never did .Wake up from that 30% and look at the full 100%

[@fakeplaystore7991]

I had no idea the names of the cities and oblasts appearing on the Ukrainian war reports were of Greek origin, thanks to Catherine. Very interesting! Thanks for clarifying that.

[@annguyenlehoang7779]

@@bladimir07 i hope they didnt destroy her statue hope one day Russian will claim back the land and raise her statue back to the rightful place

[@roddeazevedo]

There is also Melitopol (City of Honey). Dnipro was once Yekaterinoslav (Catherine's Glory) and the Kuban was Yekaterinodar (Catherine's Gift), though the Bolsheviks renamed it Krasnodar (Reds' Gift)

[@darkmatter5424]

Modern Ukraine is a Soviet creation. A Frankenstein-like abomination with lands ceded to it that had nothing to do with Ukrainian tribes.

[@andriusgimbutas3723]

​@@bladimir07It existed for centuries prior under the name Khadzhibey

[@jontaedouglas7244]

@@bladimir07as many any conquerers just before her did she took an already thriving city and renamed it

[@LCR-iy6xq]

didn't feel like Xmas season until a Romaboo video dropped :')

[@christiankalinkina239]

Christ mass holy day

[@TheAmazingFlint]

Love the way you add little EUIV references here and there, i can tell a lot of work went into this video. Keep it up man

[@alessandrobicocchi9186]

Many thanks for your video from a Romaboo living in Roma.

[@toiletvirusandcoronapaper271]

The good ending was so close but so far

[@adamgarsky4069]

Thank you I been waiting for someone to cover this in KZbin

[@kamilwiesniak2738]

Love your channel, keep it up!

[@rewriting-history]

Great video! Never knew about this event, I'm glad I learned more. For sure I will be making an alternate history scenario on it!

[@EdbertWeisly]

Its you

[@sutixela]

4:43 Biggest jumpscare for a EU4 enjoyer

[@zelkovas]

Great video as always. Suggestion: you did this on some videos, but it would be interesting to always list your readings and sources in the description, just in case the audience wants to learn more deeply about the subject :)

[@RomabooRamblings]

Sure, I will add them. Check the description tomorrow

[@WilliamAppel3]

@@RomabooRamblings Hey thanks! I've been hoping for the same stuff in your videos to get a deeper understanding

[@zelkovas]

@@RomabooRamblings Thanks!

[@leddy7904]

A different situation where Austria's army is more successful in the war, and Catherine's 'Byzantium' to some extent becomes a state that turns into it's own point of interest leading to a variety of different events could be the start of a banger Victoria 3 mod, ngl. Even if it would spell a hell of a mess because she's kinda just a Romeaboo lmao.

[@yaldabraxas]

There's also the story of the would-be Greek emperor Constantine. After his first-born brother died childless (with some mysterious circumstances or even that he didn't die but decided to become a hermit-monk, if you believe the folk tales) the Russian throne should've gone to him, but he just refused it preferring to stay in Tsardom of Poland. The confusion caused by the refusal was used by the Decembrist movement for their failed coup/revolution attempt. So who knows what kind of a monarch he would've been in case of the success of the Greek plan.

[@pimorosz4811]

Constantin silver Ruble. Probably the most rare coin only 7 in existence. Konstantin very noticeably lacks a chin.

[@crusader2112]

Great video. Very fascinating, I thoroughly enjoyed it. God Bless. 🙏🏻

[@legateelizabeth]

I'm sorry, Imperial Russia established a semi-independent psuedo-state of islands in Ottoman Greece? That sounds absolutely bizarre and I'd love to know more about it.

[@thatwasprettydecent7497]

Wait till you hear about Mani, never conquered by the Ottomans, independent since 1461. Even if they tried quite a few times. Always a thorn in their side, aiding the Venetians whenever they had a war with the Turks, acting as pirates in the Aegean, raiding forts in the Morea.

[@legateelizabeth]

@@thatwasprettydecent7497 I know about the Mani. They were also some of the last hellenic pagans in existence, lasting well into the Byzantine era.

[@dirckthedork-knight1201]

​@@legateelizabethNot quite while pagan remnants did exist there until the 7th century the idea that the whole of Mane (Mani) was pagan is false

[@dakapo8985]

Excellent stuff. Especially the nerd picture you painted of Catherine. Made me want to learn more about her.

[@user-no1nj9ji1d]

Very competent, balanced and adequate coverage of history, such a rarity nowadays on the western side of the internet. Thank you enormously for this video, which is excellent in both technical and semantic quality! Take off my tricorne!

[@Bdog40]

History channels that talk about actual history instead of agendas and feelings are rare nowadays

[@Longshanks1690]

@@Bdog40Translation: They don’t cater to _my_ agenda, which means they’re bad. If they regurgitated my politics back at me, then they’d be based and trad, which I think is the same as fair and objective analysis.

[@Bdog40]

@@Longshanks1690 ok so to begin with, theres no such thing as "Fair" in objective facts and history and when you use history( which is facts and numbers) to cater to anyside, good or bad you break the on principle what its all about. it is not the job of anybody who teaches history to cater to anyone. give me the facts not the agenda.

[@davidmajer3652]

Really glad I found this channel. Solid history presented in a clear and entertaining way.

[@ivanaznar6495]

This video is something else, the recognizable yet nice and somewhat nostalgic graphics alongside the deep voice and the details in the information displayed. Mate i´m subscribing yet it fells that your style would be best enjoyed high as an airbus, cheers i love this.

[@RomabooRamblings]

Thanks, bro, I appreciate it. Although I'd prefer you moderate your substance intake, so don't watch my videos too often.

[@robertortiz-wilson1588]

Fantastic video!

[@neymarmessironaldo5881]

Great Video !

[@jamesmcleod4335]

Your videos are top tier. Leagues better than normal documentaries with big budgets and large teams. Also, might I just say that this latest video's production quality just felt so polished. You are becoming a master of your craft. Please continue your excellent and important work.

[@szalard]

I know that Catherine the II. agreed with Joseph II. of Austria to occupy Constantinople, and restore the Byzantine Empire using the Hungarian Holy Crown. Because of this, Joseph the II. changed some of the images on the Crown, like the Virgin Mary with some of the Byzantine emperors' images (Constantin IX and Nikhail Dukas). The lower part of the Hungarian Crown is called the Greek Crown because it was made in Constantinople.

[@demetriusstiakkogiannakes1326]

Really good video as always! I would like to add that while all Orthodox Christian populations were under the Rum Millet (which was under control of the Patriarch of Constantinople) the 'Greeks' were the only ones to still use the Roman identification Ρωμιοί or Ρωμαίοι in Greek in addition to the ethnonym Γραικός and Έλληνας (Graikos and Hellene respectively).

[@MACTEP_CHOB]

Would you like to live in renewed Greek Empire now ?

[@seas1829]

24:20: Voltaire was the og simp.

[@user-cl7pm7zm3x]

Haha

[@dmitriysmirnoff8636]

Honestly I doubt that Catherine's court felt need to plan in-depth construction of a new Byzantine state. I suppose it was more like "we remove Ottoman military, and then Greeks do their greek things, while accepting Constantine and being neutral"

[@Intel-i7-9700k]

Honestly I don't quite understand the need for Constantine. Wouldn't it be quite difficult for rivals or even allies to not think he would just be a Russian puppet? I think a better plan would have been to pick any descendant of Byzantine family from Morea and crown him emperor. Then the Greeks can figure out how they run things and strengthen, while the Russians guarantee no Ottomans would cross the borders.

[@MACTEP_CHOB]

That `Russian puppet` is German. Which totally fits in Holy `Roman` Empire narrative @@Intel-i7-9700k

[@pierren___]

They would dominate the black sea, through the bosphorus

[@ayonio5723]

Very interesting thank you!

[@bleach3888]

great video but the maps need work, they’re confusing to follow due to the shadowing and some colour choices which make it hard to tell where you’re looking and what you’re looking at. i recommend pulling the camera out a bit, flipping the shadows on the water so they don’t look to be above the land and also don’t rotate the camera as much because it can be disorienting. loved the video thanks for your hard work!

[@MadcookieBG]

Considering how the desire to subjugate the Balkans to a single power has directly or indirectly led to the downfall of Byzantine, Ottoman, Russian, Austrian, German, Italian, French and British empires I doubt this new "Greek" Empire would get past the age of its proposed first emperor.

[@aegonthedragon7303]

Hope we get a video on the Megali Idea, the even more insane attempt to restore Byzantium

[@d-phoenix2198]

I mean I wouldn't exactly call it insane, it actually almost worked but typical Greek infighting and Soviet/Italian interference ultimately doomed the project.

[@christiankalinkina239]

Probably would've been successful if the February and October revolutions never happened and the Italians we're more content with what they had

[@antonlavrentiev5249]

Great value of the video and smart use of Paradox games assets.

[@johnvonundzu2170]

Excellent video on lesser known chunk of 18th century history. I can't help wondering who's playing young Catherine @3:04 the actress looks remarkably like a Kay Francis double.

[@GarfieldRex]

Only if Joseph was more collaborative.... And reasonable. Great plan from the Empress to be honest.

[@Jon-ox7hk]

Austrians were smart to foil the plan. They knew that the Russians would begin to turn on them once their common enemy (the Turks) were driven out of Europe. Better to keep a weak and incompetent empire on their southern border instead of a Russian vassal state.

[@byzansimp]

Question: what was the name of Konstantin Pavlovich's Greek wet nurse? I remember reading that she was named Helena, which would be even more symbolic for the plan of refounding New Rome, a new Constantine with a new mother named Helena.

[@RomabooRamblings]

Yes, that is correct

[@PreferansovDaniil]

Very cool! I was in Turkey and we shook hands with one pal on topic of Russian-Turkish affairs in past, both laughed about those interesting times!)

[@Joy3269]

Fantastic Video. May God Bless You. Brilliant Video. Thank You. ❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉💐💐💐🌻🌻🌻🌸🌸🌸🌹🌹🌹🌷🌷🌷🌼🌼🌼👍👍👍🙂🙂🙂 .

[@kffire12]

The Balkan War painting with men throwing rocks down on their enemies is by far one of the most metal 18th century painting I have ever seen.

[@cov.teo.8131]

It's actually from 19th century, it represents a battle scene in Bulgaria during the Russo-Turkish war of 1877-1878

[@kffire12]

@@cov.teo.8131 thanks bro

[@lajos-berenyi]

The plan’s part was also, that the new Greek empiror would have given the Hungarian crown as empirial crown. That why II Joseph didn’t crowned himself with this crown. Plus in the crown some pictures were changed: some Byzantine figure, like for example VII. Mikhaél, who was the Byzantine empiror 1071-1078, when the Türks first had conquered part of Anatolia. This suggests, that the Chatherin kind of restoration of Greek empire would have been more the restoration of the Byzantine empire together also with Anatolia and not only the Europian part of antique Greek kind of empire. It also means, that the Ottoman empire would have benn totally destroyed, and Türkey, not even as a country would exist nowdays. But it also means, that from II Joseph side the denying to crown himself as Hungarian king, and to give the Hungarian crown (what is threatened as holy crown in Hungary) to the new Byzantine empiror shows, that II Joseph wanted also to finish the Royal Hungary and just wanted to annect it to the Habsburg empire as just a province, similarly like the newly conquered Balkan part, Serbia and Bosnia, etc.

[@RomabooRamblings]

That is an interesting detail. Can you tell from which letter it is? I've only read the ones specifically about the land negotiations and only skimmed the rest, so I think I've missed mentions of the crown. It is funny, because I wanted to use it's image when I was making the thumbnail, but thought that it would be too recognizable because of the crooked cross.

[@lajos-berenyi]

@@RomabooRamblings My resource is some yt video lecture (in Hungarian language) from Pap Gábor, who is art historian, and also had an opportunity to examine the Hungarian crown, and the pictures on it it. But I don’t know, what resources he used for his Bysantine restoration plan documentory video: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/npLShHZ-i6-Mqa8&pp=ygUbcGFwIGfDoWJvciDDumogYml6w6FuYyB0ZXJ2

[@wingblader8584]

Very informative and interesting video! What did you use for the maps?

[@Malygosblues]

Good call on switching it off of the Roman numerals. That decision alone made me wait to watch

[@SkyguyFilmsZooruvfilms]

Almost had a stroke trying to figure out the beginning of that map, goes to show how used to the standard orientation we are

[@mixpilergaming123]

Lol samee

[@historiaestmagistravitae.7051]

Why do I see no Britain within the Roman Empire?! Well, that country was also part of the Roman Empire and that the English also appealed to the Roman heritage, especially when looking at Anglicization in their colonies, as the Romans did through Romanization in their countries. All in all, it is true that Russia wanted to restore Byzantium, that is, the Roman Empire, not only during the time of Catherine II the Great, but also later. Nicholas I wanted to liberate Jerusalem and Constantinople and thus caused the Crimean War, and Nicholas II in the First World War wanted to liberate Constantinople and make it a free city and connect more easily with Greece, but the German advance and the two Russian revolutions made own. Great video and good explanation. Of course, this is just my observation.

[@RomabooRamblings]

Britain looked really messy on that cutout, so I removed it and hoped no one would notice. Oops

[@historiaestmagistravitae.7051]

@@RomabooRamblings It's fine. Mistakes happen.

[@ntonisa6636]

The Tsars probably wanted to restore Byzantium since the time they overthrew the Mongol yoke. They were also frequently egged on by the Greeks to do so usually in the context of religious solidarity. For example in the 1640s the Patriarch of Jerusalem while visiting Tsar Alexei petitioned him to "become the New Moses" by liberating the Greek Christians (the way Moses freed the Israelites). The problem was that prior to 1700 the Ottoman empire wasn't weak enough for such a "crusade" to be really feasible.

[@davidantoniocamposbarros7528]

Tbh, Britain was always the "and that's bob. He's there, I guess" type of province. It was poor, only the south was somewhat romanized and the only reason why it even became a province was that Claudius needed to impress the Senate. But because it was isolated, it meant they harboured no hatred of Byzantium until the 19th century

[@ravensthatflywiththenightm7319]

Subscribed 🧿

[@s.t.384]

This video was very superb if I may say so myself

[@haksrax39]

So austria is at fault for not having modern byzantium?

[@Jon-ox7hk]

Austrians were smart to foil the plan. They knew that the Russians would begin to turn on them once their common enemy (the Turks) were driven out of Europe. Better to keep a weak and incompetent empire on their southern border instead of a Russian vassal state.

[@user-io7sh7nx7c]

And Western Europeans like the English, French and Prussians.

[@volbound1700]

@@user-io7sh7nx7c yeah the later. Russia had a chance in 1800s and talked about it then as well, notably during time of Crimean War. UK and France saved Islam... kind of odd for two, supposed, Christian powers.

[@VarietyGamerChannel]

Typical, eternal anglo golems of the eternal jew. Their destruction of western civilization continues to this day with the EU demographic replacement project and support of jewkraine.@@user-io7sh7nx7c

[@Longshanks1690]

What does “modern Byzantium” mean? This “Greek Empire” would have been a Russian client in all but name, and the social trends/culture would have been indistinguishable from the ones that ended up happening in OTL anyway. You’d have some more royal imagery and callbacks to the old Empire for sure but nothing that changes the lives of the average Greek. Any fantasy that this buffer state would be Rome reborn is a delusional LARP.

[@choysakanto6792]

Russian simping for Greeks and ancient Rome began even earlier during the Kievan Rus era. Greek scholars and priests were brought over to the realm to help spread the Orthodox faith and educate the nobility and populace. The kulak military feudal landholding system was also copied from the Byzantine themata system. The moment the tsar Ivan assumed the ancient Roman imperial title autocrator, or avtokrator in Russian, was already a heads-up of what Russia is planning to do as its successor to Rome, while the erstwhile capital Moscow sat on the seven hills, just like Rome and Constantinople. As early as the 1200s and long before Constantinople fell in 1453, the tsars and the bishops have already been calling Moscow the Third Rome. What Catherine is doing is merely mirroring what the old Russian grand princes and tsars have been planning for so long. In fact, taking Constantinople was never her idea at all as it dated way back to the days of Peter the Great, it was merely parroted by the nobility and the clergy who wanted to "liberate" the center of Orthodoxy and the ancient capital of the Eastern Roman Empire.

[@dirtbird7415]

Fun thought , If Cicero , Cato , Scipio and the like were alive to hear people referring to Mocow as " the third Rome " , wonder what they would have thought ? Methinks not favorably 😂

[@choysakanto6792]

@@dirtbird7415 they would have thought the same thing when they found out the Greeks are now running the empire from Constantinople

[@foxtrot4755]

“For the emergence of any institutions, there must be a will that stimulates instinct, anti-liberal to the point of brilliance - the will to tradition, to authority, to responsibility for entire centuries, to the solidarity of past and future generations... If this will is present, then something arises something like the Roman Empire, or like Russia - the only country that currently has a future... Russia is the opposite of the miserable nervousness of the small European states, for which, with the founding of the "German Empire", a critical time has come.” - Friedrich Nietzsche.

[@user-xc6co3ur2v]

If it were so, as you say, the church rituals would be conducted in Greek. But they are not.

[@choysakanto6792]

@@user-xc6co3ur2v they were originally Greek but were gradually turned into Russian to better fit with the local populace

[@JohnStevens-gp7ge]

Very well done.

[@articshreder3569]

Best Chanel on KZbin

[@angelosdaresis1477]

"Under the pressures of Great Power Politics and the geopolitical tensions emerging from the Crimean War (1853-56), “Byzantine Empire” displaced “Greek Empire” as the favored formulation for many European scholars. Kaldellis underscores how this terminological change reflected ideological anxiety: the fear among many Europeans that the history of the “Greek empire” might legitimate the irredentist ambitions of Greek nationalists and Russian imperialists to recover Constantinople. The term Byzantium, Kaldellis argues, enabled scholars to avoid the slippage between an acceptable Greek nation and an intolerable Greek empire, while also walling it off from problematic associations with imperial Rome. This invention of Byzantium remained an ideological imposition, but one that granted the young discipline the independent status its Western devotees craved." Aschenbrenner And Ransohoff, The Invention of Byzantium in Early Modern Europe, introduction, 2021, pp 21

[@lilestojkovicii6618]

Looking at Josephs plan maybe the Balkans is in a beter timeline If any timeline here is better that is xD

[@lfteri]

Finally someone covered this

[@noreply-7069]

5:06 A little typo. Orlov didn't die in 1708 but 1808 so the numbers 7 and 8 got mixed.

[@CaptainAhab117]

Sounds like Catherine was more of a Roman fangirl.

[@MACTEP_CHOB]

Ain`t we all ? 😇

[@DIEGhostfish]

"My best friend" Catherine had BANTZ

[@janegardener1662]

Thank you for this informative report on Catherine's plans for expanding the Russian empire.

[@mnemonicpie]

That wasn't the only reason. Russia wasn't Britanistan driven only by geopolitical interests.

[@dvnk6971]

Catherine had some grand plans really, unfortunately she managed to implement very few...

[@janegardener1662]

@@mnemonicpie Russia was so so desperate for a winter port, though--nothing more "geopolitical" than that.

[@mnemonicpie]

@@janegardener1662 Catherine got Crimea... it's a warm-water port about 300 miles from Constantinople. Before Crimea they had Azov, another winter port.

[@justinianthegreat1444]

Can you make a video about "what if the Russians took Constantinople from the Ottoman Empire"

[@MACTEP_CHOB]

YES ! I`d love to speculate.

[@kgius7434]

sadly Joseph II didn't live longer, he was one of Austrias greatest Rulers. The allience between and Cathrine the Great was fabolouse .

[@BringBackCyrillicBG]

In the greek , serbian and romanian revolts there were bulgarians participating espescially in Romania where a lot of Bulgarians found refuge and even bulgarian freedomfighters stole romanian ship at a gunpoint and crossed back to Bulgaria after some members living in wallachia and establishing comitees

[@Nobody-jx6xc]

Ah I love how use The EU4 music for Background

[@greekcomenterperson446]

Were alaways taught about the orlov revolt snd kucuk kainarja but never about how all theese greeks ended up in those ministries in russia

[@danielbalev991]

5:53 Alexander Suvorov was the secret weapon of the Russian empress - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Suvorov

[@holey5065]

they tried the classical vassal feeding eu4 strat?

[@RegressPanika]

Хорошо делаешь, камрад. Заслуженный лайк.

[@ArsenMadinov]

that EU IV soundtrack tho, and also 1000th comment ;o

[@jakegarvin7634]

0:15 Proof of the fact that Britannia was the New Zealand of the Roman Empire

[@ar4imond]

Russia: "We will restore Byzantium!" Hell yeah :D Russia: "And then add it to Russian Empire!" Hell... nay D:

[@DxGamer6767]

The eu4 sounds are perfect but also kind of worrying for me because i am playing eu4 rn

[@tadcotadco6344]

a competent and intelligent author

[@bydloshkolnik]

Maybe Byzantium Empire was never mentioned by the Catherine because it never existed in the first place? And the term was coined by some german supremacists of the "holy" "roman" empire to have more legitimacy over word "Roman". And the medieval 'Byzantium Empire" has called itself "Basilea thon Rhomanion" - which indeed is translated as Czardom of Romans.

[@technobladeleakedclips1827]

What the greek empire identify as doesnt make there claim to Roman heritage any more valid then the german claim. If you think byzantine are roman you may as well think trans are woman 😂

[@hdufort]

A coalitions pf Russians, Greeks, Armenians, Georgians (despite not following the exact same flavour of Christianity) trying to restore Byzantium and control all of the Black Sea would have been interesting. But then, you have to fight both the Ottomans and Persia, in additions of whatever shit is going down on the European side.

[@55xr28]

Very good

[@ichnehmzweidoener9939]

The EU IV music in the background is just too fitting haha

[@georgenic64]

22:00 She never called the empire "Byzantium" as the empire was called only Roman empire till then. The term "Byzantium" was wrongly established later in the 20th century.

[@CipiRipi-in7df]

Not really. The term "Byzantium" or "Byzantine Empire" was coined in mid 16th century (1557), by Hieronymus Wolf, a German historian and humanist. And had a strong political bearing, since there was already a "Roman Empire", the Holy Roman Empire (which, according to Voltaire, was not Holy, nor Roman and not an Empire). Since two Roman Empires are a Roman Empire too many, Hieronymus Wolf coined the term "Byzantine Empire" for medieval Roman Empire. Interesting, Muslim historians of the time had a better grasp on reality on the ground. For them, it was always Rum. Aka Roman Empire. :P

[@georgenic64]

@@CipiRipi-in7df I am aware of that. I said it was established as a term in the late 20th century among historians. I did not say it was introduced as a term in the 20th century, what you say about Wolf is 100% correct. Though it’s wrong to call the empire with another name than the true one as the people of the Empire did call themselves Romans. The term was diminishing as Wolf wanted to distinguish the Roman and the so called “Byzantine” empire as two separate things, though it was the same. It’s basically the same thing that happened with medieval Europe when they started calling the Έllenes as Greeks long before the Greek revolution that happened in 1821 and not as Romans as they did after the fall of the western part of the Empire. It’s difficult for an adult to understand what’s going on if one is not informed about that part of history, let alone a child. That’s why I prefer western and eastern Roman Empire better than the term “Byzantine”… it’s more straightforward.

[@CipiRipi-in7df]

@@georgenic64 ... the funny part is that they called themselves "The Roman Empire" ... in Greek (Basileia ton Romaion) 😆😆😆 On a more serious note, there wasn't anymore a Western and Eastern Roman Empire after 476. After the title of "Roman Emperor" was abolished by Odoacer, in 476, there was only one Roman Empire. The only Roman Empire. :D

[@georgenic64]

@@CipiRipi-in7df Again 100% true what you mention. I meant that I prefer to use the term eastern Roman Empire than “Byzantine” in order to distinguish the later period of time of the Empire (Greek speaking/Christians) than the earlier one (Latin speaking mainly and gentiles).

[@sergeantmajor_gross]

Great video. I always thought they wanted to annex Constantinople directly. Very interesting

[@Milos596]

They did, but much much later. In the 19th century when Greeks turned to West after the independence war.

[@matthewwebster3143]

some of the footage of cathrine the grreat seems like from a movie or tv show? which show or movie is this from?

[@MultiRedskull]

I didn't find anything about Charlemagne (2021). Does anyone know if it's a series or a documentary?

[@RomabooRamblings]

It's a German 3 episode mini-series. Try searching Karl Der Grosse, it's on KZbin. I was wrong, it came out in 2013. I put 2021, because there is a trailer in English from that year

[@Zimisce85]

"And I'd have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling British!" (Russia in 1856, probably)

[@MACTEP_CHOB]

At least those bells stolen from Sebastopol now ringing well for the UK monarchy )

[@selfdo]

The Russian Tsars, having taken inspiration from the Imperial Roman court at Constantinople, called themselves the "Third Rome". Also being born into the House of Anhalt, part of the "Holy Roman Empire" (derided by Voltaire as being neither "Holy", nor "Roman", nor an "Empire"), Catherine's plan was undoubtedly to assert Russian imperial claim as the successors, by heritage and by right of conquest, as the latest version of the Roman Empire itself.

[@matt46142]

The eu4 icons make me so happy ❤

[@daveylacy]

Interesting choice of using EU4 ingame music and screen shots.

[@Anastasia-nn5fy]

Fun fact. The lands of today’s south eastern Ukraine were not populated by people, all of those were under control of the ottoman empire with several military outposts on the Black sea After Russia to control over this territories, they were settled not only by Greek’s but also by Serbs and Germans, but mostly by peasant settlers from the central Russia Today’s population of the southeast Ukraine and Crimea are mostly the descendants of these Russian settlers from the central Russia

[@tengia7927]

You said propaganda and gibberish. This territories was populated by people Ukrainians and crimean Tatars.

[@dvnk6971]

Yeah the Russians constantly recieved German immigrants and would use them to settle the new territories in the east and south, along with cossacks

[@mnemonicpie]

@@tengia7927 classic Ukrohistory

[@dimakapeev3156]

​@@tengia7927Few Tatar slavers and Cossacks were all the all people who lived there. Every major town in the "Novorussia" region is built after Catherine by allowing Bulgarians, Serbs and Russians to settle. The so called Ukranians were north in Malorussia" while the seeds of Banderites were sown in Galicia where Catholics were brainwashing the people to hate their Orthodox brothers

[@dirckthedork-knight1201]

​​​@@tengia7927_You_ are the one speaking gibberish my friend Why do you think all these people are speaking Russian today?

[@onemoreminute0543]

2:44 Fun fact: Peter the III used to play with his toy soldiers in his bed at night. No wonder his wife deposed him.

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

I have to note a mistake here, not the "Moldavian's and the Vlach's" at 6:20 but the "Wallachian's and Moldavia's", as both inhabitants of Wallachia and Moldavia were Vlach's/Romanian's, they spoke the same language which is the Romanian language

[@user-cl7pm7zm3x]

Not a mistake

[@thraxusbellicus2706]

Moldova was also called Vlahia in medieval documents,Moldo-Vlachia,the other Vlachia,in south Danube also were regions called Vlachia/Wallachia as Thessaloniki ,the romanians exonym vlach or wallach etc are the original romans descendats of the thraco-roman latin speakers from Justinian dynasty that was formed mostly of latin romans,latin speaking thracians /thraco-romans and latin illyro-romans and started with emperor Leo I who was thraco dacian origin and eastern roman empire of Justinian was officially called Romania .Romania of today is the true thraco-roman latin heir state of eastern romanity .Ruzzia is the Huns and Golden Horde 0,3

[@user-cl7pm7zm3x]

@@thraxusbellicus2706 if you read greeks thrakians looked like mostly light or red haired and light eyes. You barely find any romanian like this and if you do chances are his ancestor was some russian or german soldier

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

@@user-cl7pm7zm3x No one in the Balkans are descendants of any Paleo-Balkanic people. But however, as any population, genetics do trace back to the ancient Paleo-Balkanic people, which really does not matter but for the sake of the conversation i mentioned it. But those "Thraco-Romans" are Roman's of the former Thracian land's, which includes Romans from Moesia, Thrace, and Dacia Traiana, which we Romanian's are descendants, as Illyro-Roman's, who were Roman's of the former Illyrian land's like Pannonia, Noricum, Illyricum and Dardania

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

@@thraxusbellicus2706 Yeah, but Vlachia is not Valahia. The Empire formed by the Vlach's in 1185, which called _Vlachia_ is another state, while the north danubian state's were mostly mentioned as _Valahia._ We must use those name's correctly for each individual state. The other Vlach state's, mostly around Macedonia and Thessaly, were referred differently, I have no information what the state of the Vlach Dobromir Chrysus state was called, but Thessaly was referred as Great Vlachia (Megali Vlachia), Upper Vlachia and Lower Vlachia. And I do have a document where Moldavia was referred as "Moldovalahia" in Slavonic, written at Bistrița in 1407, it writes: ”Здє поминаѪтсѦ Бʌагочистивiи господарiє зємʌи **моʌдовʌахыискыѦ** ижє сѪть си ПомѢни господи правосʌавныѦ господарѦ зємʌѦ сєѦ” In Romanian: "Aici se pomenesc Binecinstitorii Domni ai **Țării Moldovalahiei** care sunt aceștia pomenește Doamne pe dreptcredincioșii Domni ai Țării acesteia." Pomelnicul de la Bistrița, 1407 However, I got to say that we Romanian's have nothing to do with the Geto-Dacian's or any Paleo-Balkanic people of that matter. We are descendants of the Roman's, that's it.

[@KiljiArslan]

At this time, should be at this hour? 9:25. Only have two years of Russian. But I think that may be incorrect.

[@Thanos_Kyriakopoulos]

Calling Catherine the Great opportunistic when she wanted to revive the very cradle of Russian Orthodox culture in the same time when the West was enslaving the whole world for spices seems kind of odd. And calling her naive and uneducated for not using the term Byzantium, seems uneducated by itself, since Byzantium is a falsified defamation. Constantinople was ruled by people who called themselves Romans, spoke Greek and were Orthodox Christian, so Greek plan is much better than Byzantine plan. If you're reading a book with the term byzantine on top read it as a French novel😂

[@Andris-ml4oo]

If Byzantines were Romans, then so are the Turks. "But they called themselves Romans" is not proof that they actually were Romans. These people spoke and wrote in Greek, their customs were Greek, and the Emperors often venerated historical Greek figures. Very little was Roman about them.

[@reneblom2160]

There is nothing wrong with calling Catherine the Great opportunistic, since virtually all rulers of the 18th century were military opportunists.

[@user-fg9kf7ec7x]

​@@Andris-ml4ooSay this to the Romans of Byzantium and they will laugh at you. On maps of Europe until the 18th century, Byzantium was designated as the Eastern Roman Empire

[@rumble1925]

@@Andris-ml4oo Turks never claimed any conmection with Rome, they were their own political entity, a ruling class of Turkic nomads. After they formed an empire, they called their european lands Rumelia though which means land of the Romans.

[@commisaryarreck3974]

​@@Andris-ml4oo They totally werent Roman, its just the Eastern Roman Empire Contributing to centuries of defamation and misinformation. You must be turkish

[@cooper8515]

To me it gives more Latin Empire vibes than a true revival of Byzantium. I think that a revival of Byzantine traditions, legal, cultural, what-have-you, was pretty much impossible by the 1700s - they seemed pretty outdated even by the standards of 1453. A shame though definitely!

[@diegonatan6301]

17:48 Joseph wasn't a genius, but also wasn't an idiot, his aims were obviously a maximalist proposal, but he certainly wasn't expecting to receive everything he was asking, the fact that negotiations didn't continue was because of the changing conditions in Europe that made Austria and Russia focus elsewhere, had they continued he would probably temper his supposed ambitions.

[@Jon-ox7hk]

I doubt he wanted the plan to actually occur though. A weakened Ottoman state would be ideal, but having a Russian vassal on his southern border would not be in his best interests, especially since there were many Slavs within his empire.

[@diegonatan6301]

@@Jon-ox7hk It could be that he didn't really want a Russian vassal there, but the fact that Austria had a lot of slavs didn't matter for anyone at the time since Nationalism and Pan Nationalism was not something on the radar of anyone yet.

[@Jon-ox7hk]

@@diegonatan6301 Catherine's reign would end only a decade or so before the French revolution, so it's not too far off. Also, it's not like fermenting discontent in rival states was a new phenomenon. It would be pretty easy to do with an empire as diverse as the Austrians.

[@MegaUMU]

Revisited this video and i wonder. How do we know which books Catherine seemed into and has read with (almost) absolute certainty of the details of which chapters she got even bored of?

[@RomabooRamblings]

We have her letters, I think I've added the links in the description