Rust is taking over Linux... again? (Cosmic DE)

[@letsgetrusty]

🦀Get your *FREE 4-Day Rust training* : letsgetrusty.com/bootcamp

[@PeterKrull1]

I am on COSMIC currently, and have been using it from just before the alpha. I initially just wanted to try it, since I love Rust, and was excited to see a DE developed in it. I did not expect it to be anywhere near usable enough to use it daily, but here many weeks later, I am still using it, and have reported a good amount of bugs and even made a few PRs. With how early it is, and how good COSMIC already feels to use, I am extremely excited to be a part of this journey!

[@gr3ek19]

Do you find that it's good enough to use day to day? Any major frustrations?

[@SelectedPeppa]

I tried it yesterday. Unfortunately it's completely unusable with Nvidia

[@l-const]

@@SelectedPeppa I am using it with Nvidia and actually have contributed with a few PRs as well while developing on it.

[@FedoraSilverblue]

@@SelectedPeppa driver 555 maybe can help you

[@tomashubelbauer]

1:19 masterful use of blur to build suspense!

[@decqyd]

LOL

[@mx338]

Anything Linux in general is where Rust is gaining the most adoption, because development on Linux is so community driven.

[@shrek95372q]

c is better anyway😅 chill out

[@vncsdev]

@@shrek95372q keep using it then lol if it really were the case you wouldn't be saying it

[@AOSP-is-still-Linux]

​@@shrek95372q Or is it? There were a lot of c copies that tried implementing memory safety, most of them got a bit of attention. C won't disappear anytime soon but it is slowly getting replaced by something that won't allow you to do stupid mistakes.

[@h.s3187]

​@@shrek95372q looks like that the new open source nvidia drivers by Redhat are written in rust .

[@MrEnsiferum77]

Not true, but more to gain new developers interested in kernel development. But anyway, still rust is unsafe in any OS kernel.

[@notuxnobux]

To be clear, rust is not used in the kernel core. It's only used in optional kernel modules (drivers). That likely wont change anytime soon or ever.

[@michaelcummings7246]

I expect it'll change more and more as core kernel developers pass the reans, retire or pass away😢 and have to be replaced. The fact that people were able to convince Linus there was a place for Rust in Linux over all the other languages that have tried in the past and failed I think says alot about it merits and chances of eventually replacing C completely in the long term

[@TheMachina42]

@@michaelcummings7246 there's like 6K lines of Rust in the linux Repo, after 2 years of "great adoption". Rust is great for certain task like writing driver code, and very self contained module, but I'm positive we will never see the linux Kernel rewritten in Rust, way too cumbersome to use Rust, and honestly very much unnecessary. Despite it's many drawbacks C is very simple and scales really well. the linux kernel is currently around 26M loc of pure C. If any language does end up replacing C, I really don't think Rust will be the best candidate, other languages have better inter-ops with C than rust does, while also being easier to read, friendlier to contribution, offer way more control, and provide at the very least 80% of the safety of Rust while being a thenth of the complexity. Don't get me wrong Rust is amazing and just like any tools it will have a place and hopefully a big one, but I don't see it landing in core kernel code any time soon. as of today when I run cloc . on the linux kernel repo : Language files blank comment code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- C 34362 3525574 2730801 18169997 C/C++ Header 24999 745564 1478155 7771547 Rust 66 1171 6577 6509

[@TheMachina42]

@@michaelcummings7246 There's like 6K lines of Rust for a grand total of 27M lines of C, after two years of "strong adoption" I wouldn't call it a success, I think they have realized that Rust is just too cumbersome and not suited for this kind of application.

[@xxportalxx.]

​@@michaelcummings7246 is there a reason to tho? Seems the main advantages of rust disappear at the kernel level. Or do you mean that future devs just wont have the c experience to continue the work in c rather than rust?

[@artxiom]

Just a matter of time.

[@ManInSombrero]

As a Fedora user I was happy to not get personally attacked while watching this. A small win for me to end the day.

[@BenMelluish]

That would be like picking on the kids on the "special" bus.

[@crimsonmegumin]

dnf🐌

[@mrpocock]

As a fedora user, take any win you can get :)

[@BenMelluish]

@@ManInSombrero Don't worry I'm a Linux Mint pleb

[@jigyansunanda]

@@mrpocock brother what do you mean ? 😦I switched to linux 9 days ago. used mint for 2 days, then went to fedora . tell me what do you mean .😦

[@gamerboy4566]

I like the fact that the Linux community in general is gradually gravitating towards rust as its language of choice. fzf, zellij, yazi, all great software. Now cosmic! Awesome.

[@MiesvanderLippe]

The podcast Rust in Production season 2 episode 7 (or episode 14) has Jeremy Soller on about System 76’s Rust adventures. Absolute banger of an episode.

[@Element_Finland]

Thought you were gonna do the the GNU/Linux copypasta at 0:21 dx

[@segsfault]

Why does this video have Linus Torvalds in the thumbnail when the video has nothing to do with Linux kernel itself?

[@mohamedaminebounya4852]

give the guy a break, it just to build some some suspense to actually watch the video

[@segsfault]

@@mohamedaminebounya4852 It's just shameless clickbait.

[@assarlannerborn9342]

@@segsfaulti don’t feel like many people clicked because they saw him specifically, in the title but alright

[@mariomenjr]

For you to point it out.

[@clot27]

linux kernel is foundation for everything linux.

[@orobiodecastro]

Don’t let Richard Stallman see this video!

[@danfg7215]

I've tried it out a few months back, I'm so excited about trying it out again a few years from now when it's actually usable.

[@el_quba]

0:00 I believe around 2000 there was an experiment bringing C++ to the kernel, which ultimately failed/was abandoned and Linus even mentioned that story in the discussion about allowing Rust in the kernel. But I might have just hallucinated that story because I cannot find sources about it

[@dschledermann]

I've used Linux since 2000, Ubuntu since 2007 and Fluxbox since 2013. I've having a hard time replacing that combo. I will give PopOS a their new desktop environment a try.

[@DanWalshTV]

Nice video! Just a small correction at 2:14, COSMIC DE began development in 2022, not 2023 (they're about to hit the two year mark in a month).

[@byte.raccoon]

It’s actually the other way around. It so hard to include rust in Linux kernel that guys started redox - new operating system written in rust

[@romanzaiev]

They develop not only their own DE but also their own OS, which they don't widely advertise yet - Redox, also written from scratch in Rust. Some components of Cosmic are already running there, and the work is going on at an amazing pace, I've been following it for a long time and never get tired of being amazed. One day they will make it a complete solution and the world will see a new worthy alternative to Linux, Windows and OS X.

[@FedoraSilverblue]

really?Cain i download Redox?

[@gljames24]

It arguable that linux supported two languages before Rust: Assembly* *Assembly is not one languages, but a name for the family of instruction sets that exist to interface with a processor's opcodes.

[@severgun]

coreutils - when? systemd - when?

[@rexase]

1:07 i think that award goes to NixOS

[@plaintext7288]

NixOS does not break! (until it does)

[@nguyennguyenkhang5800]

​​​@@plaintext7288 I have rollback and I am a contributor. Joke on you, because I am daily driver with NixOS

[@achille0072]

@@plaintext7288And if it does, it's so reliable and reproducible that all your installs fail at once!

[@LinkEX]

I came here from Fireship's _Nix in 100 seconds_ video, and was primed to expect just that.

[@Nina-cd2eh]

@@anonymousalexander6005 Then you clearly don't understand "sysadmin/IT nuisances"

[@Jimbo-v3m]

Its a breath of fresh air to hear someone pronounce "gnome" the way it is supposed to be done. Great vid thanks

[@mrme488]

will be linux kernel full rewrited with rust or zig ? what do you think guys ! will that day comes ?

[@gepron1x]

Never

[@TheMachina42]

Most probably in Zig if I'm being honest. I'm currently working on an X86_64 kernel written from scratch in Zig, which I started writing in Rust but ported to Zig because it was way to cumbersome and slow to compile. I think I understand why Linus was so reluctant of using C++, those high level of abstraction that both C++ and Rust provide absolutely kill readability, control and scalability, after a few weeks it was near impossible to make good progress in my Rust kernel, hence the switch to Zig. I think the language is years away from being in a place where it would be able to start replacing C in the kernel, but so far it seems like the most probable candidate given how readable it is, it's philosophy, safety benefits, ergonomics, compile time, and ease of use. But I think it will remain in C for the foreseeable future tbh. I do think that Rust would be more suited for smaller scale components, things like modules, core libraries, core utilities, driver etc. But the kernel itself I think this is pushing it, after what feels like a few years there's only 6k lines of Rust code for 27M lines of C, which goes to show that it isn't being adopted at all.

[@klugaberbloed]

After I've heard the first time of Cosmic, I was wating for this alpha release, to finally make the switch to Linux. And even though it's only an alpha I've not been disappointed

[@mr.mirror1213]

does it support wayland?

[@klugaberbloed]

@@mr.mirror1213 yes, I think it even is Wayland only

[@angeldude101]

​@@mr.mirror1213 The better question is "does it support X11," to which the answer is "only through XWayland."

[@y0k0z00na]

You should switch to Linux with a well established distro. This PopOS sounds great but you might be disappointed with Linux in general if this very nascent distro doesn't meet your expectations.

[@anta40]

Desktop environment is userspace part. I will be very surprised if Rust is used in the core kernel, e.g file system or scheduler... :D

[@ozanyank9086]

1:02 As a Ubuntu user, this hits very hard

[@d0u6la5m]

It's my second day since switching to cosmic and i'm still trying to work out the bugs. disappearing mouse pointer, programs hanging, gparted not working.

[@HekkVerk]

Hey, Do you plan to make a video on the latest reportet issues with Rust v 1.8?

[@ojochegbe_]

Wow that's amazing ❤ I have a personal love for rust and I must say it's been fun learning

[@raptorate2872]

Start building something big, you'll hate it, guaranteed

[@GreatWalker]

Isn't NixOS also heavy on Rust?

[@angeldude101]

The Nix package manager is still just C++, but there were some plans to add Rust bindings to parts of it. As for the OS, there has been a recent push to replace various system scripts, largely those written in Perl, with equivalents in Rust.

[@stavyadatta9650]

And then there is me, going from using using arch to ubuntu 🌚.

[@bandr-dev]

I respect Systems76 a lot. I would try to work there if I were good enough.

[@torarinvik4920]

I really love Rust. There's one thing that stops me from using it though, the debugger. I have to have a solid debugger, and the Rust debugger keeps giving me "no value" on a lot of values that should be viewable. Things like enums, collections and other dynamically allocated objects can't be inspected. Now Im re-writing the application in F#.

[@PsijicV]

Arch? What about Gentoo?

[@Dygear]

Something is off in the video. Looks like the audio de-syncs or something. The mouth movements don't quite match the words after the first overlay.

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

Great. I need a PopOS with the Warp terminal, in Rust, and the Zed editor, in Rust. Both of which are wonderful on my Mac here.

[@bhavyakukkar]

Warp is closed source

[@gowthamma9578]

Yes really a nice combination ❤

[@Heater-v1.0.0]

@@bhavyakukkar Yes but the Warp team is promising to open source big chunks of Warps infrastructure. It's renderer for example. Unlike things that I depend on, like a language compiler or database or OS, Warp is only a terminal. Not something I can get locked into, there are many alternatives. So I'm prepared to accept that it's close source.

[@mascal0047]

That Ubuntu comment at 1:07 was a low blow 😂😂😂😂😂

[@callous9411]

well you are gonna start a distro war here

[@Harald723]

Whouldent it be smart to have a rust layer between the kernel and the rest like a gate?

[@bm1259]

no because that would basically mean rewriting parts of the kernel since there are inline assembly functions that take user pointers and validate whether they are safe to use in the kernel or not. you can do inline asm in rust now however not many architectures are supported not to mention the c to rust ffi making things more complicated. its just not worth it.

[@Harald723]

@@bm1259 ok thx. I'm not a kernel dev so I dont really know what I'm talking about!

[@RenderingUser]

When cosmic gets the same level of keyboard shinanegens plasma has, i might start using it

[@angeldude101]

Cosmic has almost the same level of keyboard shenanigans as _Sway,_ and it's getting close to matching. How that compares to Plasma, I don't know since I haven't used a non-tiling desktop in many years.

[@RenderingUser]

@@angeldude101 the thing about kde plasma is that it allows you to keybind to every menu option and most of application settings toggles. Which is awesome. It also allowes chained key inputs. I need both those features. I may not use kde plasma anymore, but I can't live without kde apps. Like dolphin or okular. I'm on qtile.

[@serakshiferaw]

shout out to Jeremy Soller

[@wl4dymir]

Jeremy is such a beast. Does OS work during the day, writes his own high quality OS entirely in Rust during the night.

[@nikitatimofeenko9351]

Need video about TRACTOR

[@lcssbr]

What is that?

[@TheMachina42]

@@lcssbr it's a DARPA initiative to fund researcher to try to come up with an automated tranlator of C code to Rust code. It's good to fund research but the chance of success for this project is like 0.0000001%

[@bartek38912051]

Have you heard of Gleam programming language?

[@jabuci]

I may be too dumb. I use Manjaro.

[@obestatrovao]

The power of arch with less headache :D

[@encoded14]

@@obestatrovao Manjaro gives more headaches than regular arch

[@jabuci]

@@encoded14 Absolutely not. Been using it for 10 years, had problem only once with the Nvidia driver.

[@laliths2292]

Ur dumb when u use windows.. not manjaro

[@letsgetrusty]

I use MacOS, the best Linux distro

[@cromrin]

What ai do u use to generate these videos?

[@chaosfenix]

I wish System76 would rename PopOS and just call it Cosmic or something related. PopOS sounds like a OS for a Toy I would give my 6 year old.

[@BohdanTrotsenko]

1:10 let the distro holy war begin

[@risiz]

it's quite nice and all but i think if dwm was to be written in rust, most people would hate. dwm is all about customizing the source code itself and recompiling the entire wm once a costumiztion has been done; with rust's horrendous compile times, I don't think anyone would have enough patience to site through all that.

[@kushalmondal618]

For Cosmic there is Only ❤❤❤❤.....and Respect for System76....that they are trying to rewrite the gnome fork from their prior popOS....And also making available in Fedora and Arch is a community driven that helps to have Cosmic without Debian based feel......Currently on Alpha-3 ....and its a Beast.....Well there are certain little pixel malfunctionaing parts in the panel, Settings app....Byt what i have felt using it as daily(Well i have HyprL as other Session) ....The Battery on laptop is certainly better with cosmic than Plasma or Gnome.....the default out-of-box look is pretty glowing and easy to change even a little details ......like changing the top panel transparency we just change the opacity of panel from settings>Appearance.....for Gnome we need Extensions app, tweak app, browser ext.. blur my shell....for plasma move the panel edit position.....Surely there are other improvements...the lockscreen from cosmic-greeter supports showing Battery Percentage in a laptop....which in GDM or SDDM is not present default..Cosmic can enhance Linux desktop experience

[@spongythecake]

I tried Rust. I tried C++. I thought C++ was so fun

[@irlshrek]

Good luck

[@Onyx-it8gk]

I personally think we should encourage more Rust devs to contribute to larger projects that are likely to be widely used rather than constantly building their own little pet projects. Not only does it feel good to contribute to something larger than yourself, but this way we get more and more widely-used software that is written in Rust.

[@al-sh6hm]

isn't linux a big of a project enough?

[@gljames24]

That can often be more difficult that writing the project from scratch. There's a reason why Cosmic wasn't a fork of Gnome.

[@h.s3187]

Not only cosmic but the new open source nvidia drivers by Redhat are written in Rust .

[@RafaelMilewski]

You forgot to mention Nix

[@mr.togrul--9383]

wow shots fired

[@solmateusbraga]

I want so bad to move away from GNome and their shenanigans. Hopefully in the future Cosmic unthrones it.

[@LinkEX]

I can't hate Gnome, but I've had my frustrations with it before. Either way, once Cosmic gets more stable I'll likely switch to it.

[@seandougherty3022]

had a good laugh. but you are aware that pop is downstream from ubuntu, yeah? :)

[@shreyassk1515]

This caption is a bit misleading

[@Spencerhadley]

Cosmic Alpha is great for me so far

[@popcorntime6650]

I'm already using pop os❤

[@-Engineering01-]

Honestly i don't care which language they're using, i just want a good desktop that's it.

[@decomoraes]

Hey guys, you guys have some discord rust community?

[@Sean_neaS]

I think the rust rewrite of linux command line tools may be more important (fd, bat, ripgrep, etc...). I also use niri window manager and wezterm terminal both written in rust. I'm also looking at zed code editor which is written in rust and now stable on linux.

[@vit.c.195]

Wrong. Gentoo is not a distribution.

[@bandr-dev]

I do pretend to be better than I am. I use Arch.

[@Wordsworth-e3s]

Cosmic was pretty unstable, at least when I tried it

[@Im_Ninooo]

I wish KDE would do the same. Plasma is so sluggish.

[@pantanom18]

aw man I just installed solus

[@plaintext7288]

Sniffing oxygen twice as hard with this one

[@plaintext7288]

@@RustIsWinning breathing + watching rust-related video

[@Justin-wj4yc]

umad rust is taking over

[@footballCartoon91]

Miss Linux, but it depends on Python.

[@naranyala_dev]

try to explore GUI lib

[@hugo-onzakorderra8851]

good news!

[@MasumurRahman-d3x]

Great news.

[@awfultrash888]

the Arch is just the most stable for me, I use stock i3wm and love it. Sometimes less is more

[@irlshrek]

Can we stop shitting on Ubuntu? The truth is that for most people it IS the best entry into Linux. I've seen many introductions into Linux go bad because of this misguided toxic-Linux-culture idea that Ubuntu is bad. It's not even a funny joke let alone good advice

[@31redorange08]

It's still a joke.

[@LukasTheWizard]

Mint is Ubuntu without the buggy shit

[@chudchadanstud]

No. I don't think I will.

[@hitthemill8595]

You're talking about Mint

[@Said-n7o]

Ubuntu live OS + chatgpt made me love Linux.

[@faervan4513]

My status bar (eww), as well as my wallpaper engine (swww) are written in Rust :)

[@nokomoko8832]

I genuinely believe Rust is glowie tech to some degree. Maybe not the implementation of the language, but the foundation, how all of its support comes from the 5 largest tech companies on planet Earth, how literally no other language has this kind of overnight boom of evangelists and funding, and the US Government funding it, all leads me to believe the goal isn't actually to make safe code as much as it is to get people on the inside of all these projects who are in the pocket of glowies, and who will snitch on their coworkers or accidentally push the right code to stable whenever they're asked to. Ultimately, these companies don't want Open Source gone, they want to control it and effectively make it closed source by owning all of the senior positions on these teams.

[@Henry-sv3wv]

rust will even make the frogs subscibe to alex jones

[@RustIsWinning]

@@Henry-sv3wv who tf is alex jones

[@ncpeaksean4278]

Rust is taking the whole World

[@AceofSpades5757]

I feel jebaited

[@rawmaterials3909]

I'd like to write down something here, but I'm a manjaro user, too dumb to write a comment.

[@y0k0z00na]

And if you don't know how to spell linix and have a bunch of money, you go with RedHat

[@Sinthoras155]

Zig should have been used in the Kernel, not rust

[@TheMachina42]

yes but it's too immature maybe in a few years.

[@TheMachina42]

@@RustIsWinning The kernel is 27M loc of C, after two years of "great adoption" we have like 6k of Rust, I wouldn't call that a win, quite the opposite actually.

[@TheMachina42]

@@RustIsWinning no it's not

[@h.s3187]

Between zig and Rust I prefer to use Rust , if I want to have true low level control I would still consider C over Zig because C you could target almost anything with a variety of compilers .

[@TheMachina42]

@@RustIsWinning lol just read the mailing list dude, most of the "Rust expert" are not versed on how to contribute to the kernel, they make questionable proposal that gets rejected, and are only there because they are sponsored by their companies to make some publicity. I wouldn't call that a win.

[@NuflynMagister]

Дякую Богдане! The following dialogue took place: “Mr. Linus, you don’t know me, but you will know me, my name is Mr. Borrowchecker. And my job is to shake the soul out of people. Mr. Rust, nicknamed the Crab, sent me...” The sounds of a brutal tortue..

[@dude2542]

Nah the AI eye thing is uncanny man. It is just too superficial.

[@rileyowen7245]

PopOs is better than Ubuntu, Fedora and mint

[@Crux161]

I’m pretty sure he’s forgetting the days of Perl being the Linux kernel but oh well

[@user-eg6nq7qt8c]

There's no way Perl was used to write kernel code.

[@soupborsh6002]

I am sorry but your talking face looks AI generated.

[@nebularzz]

THATS WHAT IM SAYING

[@charlesdean03]

Its pretty funny he said if you dont have a single ounce of personality you use ubuntu. then talking stuff about arch then goes to pop showing that its awesome while popOS is fork of ubuntu not debian... So bro your name suits your : Let's Get Rusty (by that you mean rusty at knowing things) lmfao... and if you dont believe me please research on it you will also have a laugh.

[@homeape.]

obligatory GGGGGGnome comment

[@skorp5677]

Cutting every sentence, some sentences multiple times leads to very unnatural listening experience. It would greatly benefit your content, if you spoke a bit more freely. Breathing is fine

[@severgun]

"Rust for its readability..." Rust and readability in one sentence ahahahahahaha. Marketing Department employee or AI generated text detected.

[@severgun]

@@RustIsWinning Blind pathetic funboy triggered.

[@Justin-wj4yc]

@@severgun lmaoooo rust is highly readable except the double colons are meh

[@AhooraBahadori-lx7cb]

👽ZIG👽

[@bytesizedfeed]

Let me be real with you, the only real issue Rust addresses that C or C++ don’t is an out of the box package manager. Other than that, wait a few more decades before you see the same thing happening to Rust.

[@thanosfisherman]

What same thing?

[@filipemecenas]

Nice

[@severgun]

Mimic Gnome - bad idea. Tablet UI designed for fingers should not be used on laptops and desktops. STOP WASTING SCREEN SPACE

[@Simple_OG]

Reminder "I use arch btw"

[@foju9365]

I dislike popos with a passion because it never worked out for me the many times I’ve tried to install and run it. It is probably the least stable Ubuntu/Debian based distro. Knowing the track record I think this rust based DE will be half baked and poorly integrated and buggy. Despite what they say about Ubuntu here and Manjaro at least they work well Generally speaking if anyone is trying to push a language rather than solve a problem for end users that is a problem. Especially in open source OSes because the users are looking for something cohesive and useful for end users and not the hodge podge mess that desktop Linux is now

[@Noonicknames]

pog

[@D9ID9I]

Rust is a joke and will quit kernel. Period.

[@NotherPleb]

That's not really on Linux, but sure

[@mx338]

Only if you're like, "akshually Linux is just the kernel".

[@jmesa951]

This video aged badly

[@dheerajreddy-wt3kp]

Just git gud with C and reject rust.

[@dank8981]

Very egotistical and prejudiced take on distro. I am disappointed on you brother

[@pogomeal]

Guess you can't take a joke. I was hoping he would shit on my distro as well. Just to see what he would say.