12V EPOCH 460Ah Lithium Battery Showdown - Testing & Review

[@RVwithTito]

FYI: EPOCH Batteries are 10% OFF right now (Labor Day SALE through 9/2). Go to www.epochbatteries.com/?rfsn=8034520.319201 and use code USA10 at checkout.

[@ISELLHH]

Great comparison on 460ah Epoch Lit batteries.

[@RVwithTito]

@@ISELLHH Thanks! I appreciate that.

[@effortless_choice]

$7500 for 3 BB GC3, providing 810Ah (270Ah x 3). 2 Epoch Essential 460Ah batteries providing 920Ah is $2600 (full MSRP). Nothing against BB, I appreciate their quality, they’ve helped raise the bar of battery quality for all consumers. That said, with the quality of Epoch batteries, there is no way I’m paying $7500 for 810Ah: 110Ah less than the Epoch total of 920Ah.

[@RVwithTito]

Yes. There are a lot more options available these days. I will say, that I never had a problem with my BB batteries. Mine don't have any bells and whistles thought, but they just work.

[@jimsjacob]

@@RVwithTito Ditto

[@Capnchaos4202]

I spent close to four grand on the two Epoch batteries that I have. But I got 920Ah that doesn’t take up much space

[@MaCroCosmHD]

Haha I've just installed the 460 Essentials in the last month, so this is pretty neat to see. I'm still watching your video, I hope it doesn't turn out to be bad - it's been working for me!

[@RVwithTito]

Turned out good. Right?

[@michaelbaker5146]

I just bought two of these EPOCH batteries and bench testing now. Agree about the necessity of the Victron communications but it is nice to have. It is hard to pass up half the cost with the same warranty. Time will tell! Thanks for the great review!

[@RVwithTito]

Yes. Time will tell for sure.

[@CJ30123]

The Victron comms dont even work. Head over to Panbo for a good discussion about this battery and how its BMS behaves. They did comprehensive testing. Short of it is that its an amazing battery but the Victron comms are broken and the recommended charge settings will cause you issues. Set absorption to 13.8 to avoid those issues.

[@simon359]

Just buy a Victron shunt for the cheaper model and you’ll get all the information and bennies that you want!

[@jmpattillo]

This is the way if you don’t need the waterproof case. All you need.

[@RVwithTito]

That's the best value option in my opinion. Unless.....you're putting it in a boat.

[@alanperkins5530]

Another great video Brian. I replaced 2-100Ah AGM batteries in my 5th wheel earlier this year with the cheapest 12V 460Ah LiFePO4 Lithium Battery on Amazon. The Temgot brand that was $1,199 at the time of purchase. I didn't do any testing but couldn't be happier with the upgrade. . There is a display on the battery however the built-in Bluetooth feature lets you access battery information on your phone.

[@RVwithTito]

Cool. Glad it's working well for you. What does the display show?

[@alanperkins5530]

@@RVwithTito There are 3 pages for the LCD display. Page 1 shows real time current, voltage, temp, time to empty, and state of charge. Page 2 shows charge and discharge on and off modes, min and max temp, and status. Page 3 shows the individual cell voltage. The app used to connect to Bluetooth is XiaoXiangElectric.

[@alanperkins5530]

There are 3 pages to the LCD display. Page 1 shows current, voltage, temp, estimated time remaining. Page 2 shows the toggles on/off for charge and and discharge, Cycles. Page 3 shows individual cell voltage.

[@PrairieEquipmentCompany]

I’m confused at the 15:00 mark, when you go to increase the load on the Essentials. It had been discharging at 205 Amps or so. Discharging being denoted by a Negative 205 number. Then you go to “let’s add more”, and the number goes from -206 to -320 for the briefest of moments, but then it changes to a POSITIVE 312A. Then you can see the battery % is actually increase. I think you were charging the battery somehow, and VERY rapidly. That plays out for a few seconds then you say a heater cut out and then it flips back to negative 215A. So, I think you showed the battery can discharge 215A for 30 seconds, but we didn’t see it do 300A discharge ever for more than 1 second, before it flipped to charging at 300A. Still, 200A is pretty solid and good enough for many. Especially if you have two of the inexpensive 460 Essentials in a vehicle, which would be the right number for an RV to comfortably go all day with Air Conditioning.

[@m3cog]

Thanks for this information and your presentation. It's exactly what I have been hoping to see as I was debating between these two choices. No good reviews I could find anywhere on the Essentials version. I called and spoke with a tech at Epoch and he explained some differences but most of his info was way above my pay grade. As per usual you gave a fair and thorough analysis that was understandable.

[@RVwithTito]

You're welcome. I thought this would be a good comparison as most folks seem to focus on the more expensive one only.

[@philsmith5400]

Very impressive performance, and even more impressed that you have all these gadgets in your shop! I'm thinking about using these as a battery backup for the house - thanks so much!

[@RVwithTito]

Glad you enjoyed the video Phil.

[@bobf.7238]

Hi Brian, Good video. Thanks! One thing regarding the Essentials battery, or the 300 AH Epoch which you didn't cover, neither of which have internal fuses like the big one has. Many posts that I've read elsewhere suggest that you can rely on the BMS for short protection. Based on your tests, a 300 Amp short would not trip the 200 Amp over current shut down on the Essentials battery. It looked like even a 400 Amp short might not shut it down. This is just a reminder to your viewers to fuse the battery consistent with the wiring departing the battery. Cheers from up the road in Kingston, Bob

[@RVwithTito]

Agree. I'd go with a terminal fuse like this (amzn.to/3AG0s1e) at a minimum. I've used these a lot.

[@rkdrury1]

Thank you Brian for a presentation that is not only informative as well as practical in terms of supporting decision making.

[@Raven5763]

We bought the Essential version of the 460 ah battery for our RV last month. If I was using the battery in a marine or outdoor RV environment I would have chosen the waterproof version. But, since I was placing it in a 5th wheel front compartment, I didn't see the need to pay for the other features. The Epoch app will give enough information to know if there is a cell issue, and the warranty is a pretty good one if it does develop a problem.

[@RVwithTito]

I agree with your logic. Should work well for you.

[@GaryBoyd02]

Great video Brian. I always wonder if you need all the jazzy display info as well. After awhile on a daily basis I think most people just want to see what their daily use patterns are so they can plan a bit. And you can get that with a shunt as you say. Right now I think Epoch and SFK are the major players. You didn't mention much about customer service for Epoch. SFK has very very good customer service as good as anybody in the business and also a very good product. They are responsive and are working on a few new interesting things. If I needed a new system which may be coming up I will research these two companies and right now. This part of the market segment has seen serious movement in the last 8 months and it's going to change a bit more in pricing. I have to say I lean towards SFK due to customer service, form factor for moving these things around (460 is a bit big for guys like us who are getting older) and their product quality and warranty support is USA. This would give guys like you and me more time to discover lyrics from the 70s that we always thought we knew but now know different. Who knows how many red rose duchions we will find with the internet powered by our LiPoe batteries .😊😊😊

[@RVwithTito]

I don't have any direct experience with their customer service. I know most folks get their questions answered from the Facebook group that the EPOCH folks monitor. Yes, they are a bit heavy to lug around. Harbor Freight sells a little rolling dolly for $12. I have a bunch of them now so I can roll everything around.

[@jimsjacob]

Well, there goes your warranty! 😂. Seriously though, amazing how the costs have gone down. Like you, I went with the BattleBorn Game Changers and they are working flawlessly, but over twice the cost! No regrets on my part, but the next build, I’ll be doing my research via RV with Tito KZbin proxy! Hah! Thanks for all this great info Brian. Cheers!

[@RVwithTito]

Glad you enjoyed it. No problems with the warranty on my part :) Lots of projects I could use them for.

[@Jimmy_Jim_Jim_1234]

I just got the Epoch 460ah Essentials for my small class C. Its GREAT, and the phone app works well.

[@RVwithTito]

Good to hear. Thanks.

[@josephchouinard5558]

Great battery solution. If not for the $1300 tag, it would be a no-brainer for our fifth wheel.

[@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101]

Excellent and accurate video! I have a pair of the 460 Marine batteries coupled to a full Victron system. I only use the comms to import some data into the Victron system so I can see it remotely on the VRM. I don't use if for control or monitoring. I prefer the Victron and shunt control. I also agree with your conclusion, even with not using comms the batt is well worth $1799. But you could not go wrong with the Essentials either. Thanks for the info.

[@RVwithTito]

Great. Thanks for the validation :) Even with comms, you can see both the BMS and Shunt data together on VRM or Cerbo display.

[@AwayWeWinnebago]

I added the more expensive one to our truck camper last month and kind of wished I would have opted for the essential just for the size and weight. This thing is a beast. I have a Victron smart shunt and no Cerbo GX so I don't need to communication. You might have covered this in another video but they don't like to go over 13.9 volts for charging so lithium ready converter in the camper wasn't ideal. I installed a Victron 2000 Multiplus inverter/charger and programmed in the profile so it's happy now and everything seems to be working. It will even run the AC on battery for a while.

[@RVwithTito]

Great to hear it's working well for you.

[@WhittakerMark]

With the Victron Comms you get the DVCC option functionality from the Victron system, faster charging and more control. You will not have any external shunt /internal Bluetooth sync issues.

[@jmpattillo]

I hope Epoch comes out with a version with the Victron coms but without all the waterproof features

[@MatthewByrne-h9x]

Is DVCC the setting that Panbo reported as possibly not working?

[@WhittakerMark]

@@MatthewByrne-h9x DVCC works good with the 460

[@SalmanFKhan1968]

@@jmpattillo You can look at the sunfunkits 300 $1100 free shipping has victron comms

[@quartamile]

Please always test the temperature sensors, especially the low temp charging shut off. They don't always function as advertised! Thank you for the comparisons! Bless

[@PrairieEquipmentCompany]

A polite correction on the stated specs. You say low temp limit in charge and discharge is -24F. They’re both -4F, as many lithium batteries are. -20C/-4F. You were correct on the high temp, 140F.

[@RVwithTito]

Thanks for keeping me honest :)

[@TW---]

Found this on Epoch website: listed under specs for the new 300ah marine grade is noted a new optional - "coming soon" external touchscreen display. Also a communication box for inverter compatibility. Apparently these will only be compatible with the marine grade but not the Essentials as it will be wired. Not sure how much "control" features the external touchscreen will have. I plan on just using the Essentials with an old Android phone always connected to the app, velcro to the wall.

[@RVwithTito]

Interesting. We'll have to wait and see. That touch screen for the BMS would also have to be waterproof. Thanks for the heads up.

[@SalmanFKhan1968]

Basically the same as the LI Time 460 but the Li Time has free shipping.

[@TheCornucopiaProject-bd5jk]

They are excellent batteries. It’s tempting to go with the essentials lineup at $500 savings. Victron offers multiple shunts that can bring monitoring and communication back and it would be cheaper. However, I like the battery being waterproof and having an upgraded BMS. I also run 2 shunts, one for ac (I use 2 inverters) and one for my dc loads (up to 1000 watt output). I’d still prefer the more expensive battery, two of them in parallel.

[@RVwithTito]

I'm with you there.

[@TexasATV]

Great video, I have been looking into the Epoch batteries so your video was very helpful. I love the Victron communication so I may be more interested in the battery with that capability. I am not familiar with the Cerbo GX so if I had a smart shunt would I need the Cerbo as well or would it be either or?

[@RVwithTito]

The Cerbo is essentially a communication hub with WiFi capability. All of the Victron components plug into the Cerbo GX (including the SmartShunt). So, you still need a Smart Shunt.

[@RVingwithBandit]

Nice video, I like the epoch BMS app graphics. My BMS app that I use for my SOK battery (280 ahr) pretty much gives the same data but is not anywhere as nice to look at as the EPOCH one you showed in the video. That being said I wonder the strength of the BMS Bluetooth for the epoch. My SOK that is close to the EPOC essential price per watt has terrible Bluetooth range. I basically have to be 5 feet from the battery compartment to read my battery via Bluetooth. I am adding a Victron shunt so I can get better range for battery monitoring. ha without it I have to be outside or hold my phone in the shower enclosure inside the RV to read my SOK battery. I wonder if I can use the epoch app to read my SOK Battery. I will have to try. Have you had any luck using different apps on different batteries BMS? Do you have a favorite?

[@RVwithTito]

Funny. I'm not sure if the animation on the app means anything, but it is catchy. I'm curious if the Epoch app works with your SOKs. Let me know. The other app I used in this video is the Overkill Solar app. It isn't flashy but shows more data. Good luck.

[@dirtroadsailing6418]

I think your video is the first that I've seen that shows a side by side comparison of the internals of those 2 batteries. The premium version sure looks to be much better built, but for an extra $500 it should be. I'm with you on whether there are any benefits to the Victron communications, especially since both batteries have Bluetooth and the smart shunts work great. You really do need an oscillating saw to rip those batteries open if you're going to compete with Will Prowse though!

[@RVwithTito]

Funny. Yeah. I won't be attacking the battery with my oscillating saw. I'll leave that to Will :)

[@sv.alannah]

I don't know what to think. I am building a solar system for my boat so the IP rating is a plus and the mounting points as well. Should the boat go upside down for a moment and come back up I will have a lot of problems and I do not want 5 KW of potential power to be one of them. Victron is the system I will use so that appeals to me as well and I know that cost. So the one question and it is a big one is battery's. I need 400 to 500 AH so 2 230 AH Li Time for a grand or go all out for 1800 on one EPOCH. It will blow my budget but some how I think given the environment though they should never actually get wet and the hard mounting points EPOCH is my best and safest bet.

[@RVwithTito]

My opinion...go with 2x460Ah batteries. That way, if one goes south on you, you always have one to get you by.

[@frankfaubert1927]

Great video. Did I miss the physical size of the battery? I need to know how much carpentry to do, 😆

[@RVwithTito]

They are 8D size. The big one is 20.75 x 8.5 x 12 inches.

[@frankfaubert1927]

@@RVwithTito Thank you

[@Thesaltymedic36]

I picked up 2, new Epoch batteries (100ah) for 800 bucks. Facebook marketplace for the win. Like a buy one get one free special. I’m happy with their performance so far. I do want a smart shunt but I’m going to have the whole thing replaced. New everything before we go FT.

[@RVwithTito]

In either case, you'll still need a Smart Shunt. Good luck!

[@Thesaltymedic36]

I do. I never really know the state of charge 😂

[@thomasroell5255]

Solid video, well researched. Now I am wondering how long the essentials can do 300A, and what it does when it descides to give up. The engineer in me of course would also want to know the same for 250A ... Why ? With a 3000W inverter and a 40A DC load at nominal 200A, there is only about 2200W left over. If 250A is half way stable for say 5 minutes, that means A/C + Nespresso can run easily together.

[@RVwithTito]

I can't remember off-hand how long at 300A...a few minutes at least. I'll try and check the specs.

[@anthonyb2334]

Brian, as usual, another very good video. My solar needs are much simpler . We are generally hooked up to shore power but with a 12V refrigerator and the occasional 5 day boondocking trip, we presently have 200W of solar and two BattleBorn batteries. Works well for our needs but we are trading to a class C , with 200W roof solar but lead-acid batteries . I think I the 300 amp Essentials version would fit our needs and fit in the step well. I was leaning this way but your video helped me decide the Epoch is a reasonable brand to go with. Thank you

[@RVwithTito]

Glad it helped you out. Sounds like a good solution. Someday you'll probably want to expand your solar and batteries. So keep that in mind.

[@thomasroell5255]

Mind sharing the settings for the Victron shunt you ended up with for both batteries ?

[@RVwithTito]

Took a screenshot. Email me and I'll send it to you.

[@dero9711]

Brian, thank you very much for this video, I'm actually looking at buying 4X 12.8/ 460AH Essential batteries, already I will have full Victron components in my fifth wheel. One thing I'm guessing is that because the cells in the Essential are mounted bottom to top, I could realistically stack my batteries on top of each other with the terminals facing me as oppose to facing up? Am I correct in assuming so??? Yes saving space in my pass-through in my fifth wheel. ( still building a frame around the two stacks of batteries so they don't move around.)Safety first...Once again, thank you for all the info you have provide in the previous years, ( solar roof, now these batteries). You are the go to guy for trustable info.

[@RVwithTito]

Yes. I believe you could mount them on the side. Here's what I'd do. The top of the cells with busbars are on the same side of the battery as the terminals. So I'd mount them with terminals on the top (facing you). That would orient the cells in a vertical position. If you mount them on their side with terminals down, the cells would be upside down. Also, the consensus on the Facebook group is that it's ok to mount them on the side. I'd recommend joining the facebook group. It seems to be the place to get questions answered. Good luck with the batteries.

[@dero9711]

@@RVwithTito Thank you much Brian.👍

[@Russh1]

Hey Tito, do you think either of them would be better designed for high vibrations? I.e corrugated tracks.

[@RVwithTito]

Hard to say. They are both pretty solid. Between the two, I'd say the more expensive one has additional padding and support.

[@lukeskytoker]

I wish the essentials were waterproof, because my battery trays are located beneath my van. I have the Victron shunt meter with my current (2x100ah) battleborns, which is all the information that I need. I want to eventually upgrade to 2x300ah epochs…

[@RVwithTito]

It's still IP54 and was sealed up pretty good with silicon. The top was difficult to remove. So I think it probably work fine just like any standard battery mounted down there.

[@dangoldstein9437]

Does the 460 Essentials have an on/off switch? The manual says it is on top but I can’t see it in any of the pictures or in your video.

[@RVwithTito]

No. There's no switch on the Essentials. I've pointed out a few other discrepancies in their docs that they are working on.

[@Yukonjackman1]

Good morning, Are you guys planning to visit Arizona this year ?

[@RVwithTito]

Most likely.

[@jmpattillo]

I wonder if the internal fuse is because it’s designed to survive submersion.

[@RVwithTito]

Hmmm. Good point. You might be on to something there.

[@patrickmclaughlin6013]

I would give a hard look at 48 or 36 volts for that much wattage.

[@RVwithTito]

460Ah at 48V would be a nice 22KW battery bank.

[@Foxfried]

Biggest issue with both of these batteries is that there are 8 cells but the app only shows 4 cells so that is a problem as if 1 cell goes bad you will not know which one.

[@RVwithTito]

There are 4 series pairs which are then connected in parallel. Each pair makes 460Ah at 3.3 volts. So that makes 4 logical 460H cells connected in parallel for 13.2V.

[@Foxfried]

@@RVwithTito right but you see 2 cells as 1 so if you have a weak cell you will not know until it drains the parallel pair.

[@RVwithTito]

Yeah. This is true.

[@lindanadaud9698]

Thanks for the video.

[@RVwithTito]

You're welcome!

[@fredzuccarelli]

Another great video!!!!

[@RVwithTito]

Glad you liked it.

[@ISELLHH]

What is your take on 2- 460ah w/ BMS com port wired in series and making a 24 system? I have a 2008, 45', all electric Motorhome.

[@RVwithTito]

Sure. Sounds good.

[@petecorrea8321]

What are the dimensions? Would it fit in my four golf batteries that I currently have in my compartment?

[@Capnchaos4202]

I have 2 of the batteries with Victron coms in parallel under my bed. 1 battery is the master and the other is the slave. With that said would I hook the Victron comms to the master or the slave going to my Cerbo GX?

[@RVwithTito]

Typically the master goes to the inverter.

[@Capnchaos4202]

@@RVwithTito thank you Tito

[@jamesmason7124]

Very nice looking batteries but unfortunately I can't afford either one, I'm disabled and unable to work anymore so I live on a very fixed income. I just posted my first video on KZbin, it's about upgrading a Victron blue Smart battery charger if you're interested.

[@BootLikker]

That’s a cool battery I got the vater 460 ah but haven’t used it yet still have to install it. I sure wish solar technology would increase like the battery technology smaller more powerful cheaper before you know it you will be running a/c with the batteries all day and all night if they can make the panels keep up with the batteries the you gotta figure out how to get water you could suck the water out of the air in humid climates using your batteries like a giant dehumidifier to fill yur freshwater tanks then poop in a compost toilet and pee on your tomato plants and you won’t need nothing from the grid solar powered internet and communication fantastic charge your electric bike off your panels they really gotta get those solar panels cooking a lot more electrons .

[@RVwithTito]

Solve that problem and you'll be a billionaire 😃

[@my_channel_44]

Which one? Send them both to me. 😊 I'll let you know. 😅

[@RVwithTito]

Let me think on it :)

[@garyag45]

👍🤛🙏🦅😎🇺🇸

[@RVwithTito]

:)

[@cobbles62]

Infomercial It takes years to build trust, and seconds to break it.

[@my_channel_44]

Are the batteries junk? Did he not flag his own video as promotional? People have to put food on the table, and mfgs have to be able to present product.

[@cobbles62]

@@my_channel_44 Sure there are disclaimers and disclosures at the bottom of the text. That does not take anything away from the suggestion throughout the video that it would be an umbiased review of a product. I am also pretty sure that the $1300 battery came pre-pryed open especially for informercial purposes. I stand by my opinion that this video shows that RV with Tito has gone from a fun unbiased channel to a commerial source that can not be trusted. I for one don't need more of those in my life. Sadly the adblocker can't recognise this junk so the only thing for me to do is to unsubscribe.

[@my_channel_44]

@@cobbles62I hope you find happiness in life.