Was ROB ZOMBIE's Halloween REMAKE Really That BAD?!

[@RyanHollinger]

*I've accepted my fate... Please comment below with what I should cover next and help feed the algorithm gods!* Get 15% off your order at www.buyraycon.com/ryan

[@moriahamerson]

Dellamorte Delamore or The Cemetery Man. Also In the Mouth of Madness. Both 1994 and very interesting. One has been well covered, one has not. Please please?

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

The Ritual Ryan Recommends (or RRR) As Above, So Below, Mr. Jones (2013), the Underworld series, & Soulmate (2013. This one produced by The Descent's Neil Marshall btw).

[@boobootittleman7299]

I’d love for you to cover Mike Flanagan’s ‘Doctor Sleep’ or even his new miniseries ‘Midnight Mass.’ I’d also recommend ‘Storm of the Century.’ Keep up the good work, Ryan!

[@elricofmelnibone425]

Ravenous (1999). Super underrated horror-comedy that’s right up your alley. Also, Guy Pierce’s and Robert Carlyle’s best performances IMO.

[@axelcordova8262]

Night in the Woods and Pink Floyd's The Wall

[@Lupinvej]

I just love that John Carpenter has stated, that he is perfectly fine with people remaking his movies. As long as he gets his money, he just wants to live life as a king, play video games and smoke the weed everyday. Gotta respect that.

[@AbstractSandwich]

Agreed, Carpenter's a real one

[@joshgillam5130]

He's my hero

[@localegoist4079]

Sigma pillioniiolare grindset

[@endangeredmexican9644]

Agree he knows nobody can beat his original

[@FortyHurts]

And playing music. Living the dream!

[@PulpandArt]

I'll give Rob Zombie that: His movies tend to be effective when it comes to their settings, make up and atmosphere. This film in particular made me want to shower myself afterwards.

[@maxbielinski2276]

I know what you mean I love how dirty and raw he made myers like he truly doesn't give a fuck

[@mysteriiis]

Rob Zombie movies could give you tetanus through the screen. In the best possible way, of course.

[@libertatemadvocatus1797]

I think he does well if the movie is about white trash as either the victims or the perpetrators. I think he fails at most other things. I mean, I think House of 1000 Corpses and Devil's Rejects really worked. I am very underwhelmed by his take on Halloween.

[@mikethom059]

In blood, right?

[@karlhess7278]

I always want to shower after his movies. I'm not a huge fan not they aren't good but that they aren't for me

[@thatkidwiththehoodie]

“There are also people who can nitpick a film back together” damn, thanks for figuring out how to phrase what I’ve been trying to do more over the last few years!

[@RainbowRenegade]

He described it perfectly

[@andreworders7305]

reconstruction

[@PoptartParasol]

He's certainly got a knack for coming up with little gems like that

[@marksism4292]

It's why Only God Forgives is one of my favorite films

[@GurlsiLike]

I honestly believe Zombie’s style suits Friday the 13th more. Imagine how brutal he wouldve made Jason!

[@yourmove267]

No this video made me realize that I want a TCM movie by Zombie

[@Rico401Prov]

I feel like he should remake I know what you did last summer

[@JP-1990]

I'd like to see him do Nosferatu.

[@january2627]

@@JP-1990 nosferatu wouldnt work for rob zombies movies i feel like

[@bernebelmont1857]

Nosferatu is so out of the box it would have to work lol Friday probably wouldnt be that far from the 2009 remake And TCM is just too obvious

[@JayMeDee]

I find Zombie's take interesting, especially how he deviates with the second one. The trauma these people endured in the first movie was mess your life up so badly. Then to have it happen again? Its the depths of despair. I "felt" the brutalities in his movie to the point that I felt despair for Laurie. I mean, at the end of the sequel, she's pretty far gone.

[@seanmaher2987]

I agree, but kinda wish Danielle Harris survived the second one. She rocks.

[@Bubba__Sawyer]

It's such a dumb criticism when people say he didn't "get" Michael Myers. He wasn't trying to portray Michael like the original, he was giving a completely fresh take on the character. Whether you like that take or not is irrelevant.

[@ajver19]

@@Bubba__Sawyer except it was such a different take it may as well have been a different character altogether. They could've called it, "Devil's Night" and had it take place in the 30th instead, Michael Myers is now Matthew Madson. Literally nothing would have to change.

[@LexiconDevil]

He went too far with the sequel. The whole "white horse" BS was absolutely horrible. "Interesting" doesn't necessarily mean "good".

[@LexiconDevil]

@@Bubba__Sawyer His take of Michael Myers was Jason Voorhees with less exciting steps. It wasn't new.

[@wstine79]

Laurie: "Was it the HOYEVER MAN?" Loomis: "As a matter of fact, it was."

[@FischerFilmStudio]

This made me cackle 😂😂😂

[@marreco6347]

The sequel to bye-bye man no one asked for.

[@iHaveTheDocuments]

Man he just loves when people bring up his tag line in the comments. No wonder he injects it into every script.

[@nbk4dv9]

Ah that pesky mandela effect. Thanks for the residue tho.

[@TheFuryHasCome]

Regarding Original Michaels driving skills, I’d like to think that Dr.Loomis taught him how to do basic things to help Michael get his mind off murder. But he only empowered him.

[@Sage0fThiccPaths]

That'd make alot of sense tbh. Never thought of it like that.

[@gaylemcgillicuddy5441]

Maybe someone's been giving him lessons!

[@filthy_peasant_the_one2134]

“oh you gonna teach me how to drive a car? cool, cool, I’ll use this skill to KILL”

[@donnybuoy]

I never understood why people thought it was so out of the realm of possibility that Michael knew how to drive. He was institutionalized at the age of 6. At 6, I had the basic idea of driving, as well, just by watching my parents and grandpa drive, and watching movies and television.

[@sirenofthesea7802]

Wait, isn't it Dr. Loomis who asked how he could drive in the first place? Then an orderly from the sanitarium made a crack about somebody giving him lessons? Maybe it was that guy? Idk, I think little things like that are thrown in to make us engage more with the film. Makes us ask questions so we keep coming back.

[@danderson8431]

Octavia Spencer’s death in Halloween 2 is one of the few horror movie deaths that really got to me. The way she’s screaming and crying as Michael stabs her is realistic. At one point there is even a bit of drool. I see why she later went on to win an Oscar.

[@thejawgz6719]

The best part of Halloween 2 was the opening... which ended up being a dream sequence. The rest of the movie left me salty because it didn't measure up to the beginning.

[@planbrent]

Realistic? The way she's walking around not making a noise or stumbling at all until we see blood and then starts acting like someone who was stabbed?

[@Hollowism]

@@planbrent I think Michael slashed her so quick that she didn’t even realized what happened at first

[@theitfactorjameswheezer2852]

@@Hollowism it’s called adrenaline

[@thomasharris7881]

If you look at her wound on her face it looks like Michael stabbed her nose to mouth in a single puncture, which would have probably given her a massive head trauma, which is why she walking around stunned and confused, like in a concussion, it’s when she opens her mouth and screams is when the blood comes out. It’s a really harrowing death scene, you really feel the brute force of it when he’s standing on top of her. One of the few slasher deaths that really hits you on a visceral level on how brutal it is.

[@shinola]

I’m so glad that Ryan gave credit to “The Toy-oun The Draydeed Soyn-Doyn” as a prototype for “Halloween.”

[@savagenature1]

There's also something to be said for Tyler Mane's portrayal of Michael Myers. At 6'9 he is the biggest actor to ever play the character and the physicality he brought to the role was utterly terrifying. Even in the smaller, softer moments, he conveyed so much with his presence and body language. I honestly didn't find Michael Myers in the first two films to be that scary. But Tyler Mane's portrayal was truly a Monster. I'd be running for the hills the second I saw that Michael Myers, I have only seen the first two Halloween films and Rob Zombie's films and I honestly don't have much of an interest in seeing any of the sequels that came in between. The first reason is that when it comes to the Kills, Michael Myers is a bit of a one-trick pony. And the other reason is that I seriously doubt that any of the other Michael Myers portrayals could compare to the brutality that Tyler Mane brought to the role... though I am open-minded about the two most recent films.

[@argelisplanchart9438]

Well in Halloween 4 Michael stabbed somebody WITH A FUCKING SHOTGUN

[@dustinakadustin]

I really didn't connect with his performance at all. He was tall sure but he didn't move like the shape at all, I can't put my finger on exactly what it was but he just didn't feel right.

[@argelisplanchart9438]

@@dustinakadustin Well he wasn't really supposed to act as Nick Castle. He was his own thing.

[@dustinakadustin]

@@argelisplanchart9438 yes you're right, I just didn't vibe with it at all.

[@LexiconDevil]

Michael wasn't meant to be some huge guy. John Carpenter complained about that when Rob's remakes came out. If you want big and intimidating, that's Jason Voorhees. Michael's whole thing was being an almost unstoppable force while appearing relatively normal physically. He's not meant to be big or full of rage. He's an emotionless killing machine, with no reason why he's like that. Michael's not supposed to be a Jason Voorhees-type character.

[@kingkrelly1315]

You are so self-reflective and honest about being smug in your student days. I think I was the same way. I love so many films now that I would have torn apart in the past.

[@paultapping9510]

the vast, vast majority of arts students (myself included) go through a phase of self-satisfied smugness. Many never recover.

[@aftertone8339]

@@paultapping9510 Many go on to become "critics" on youtube

[@AcornPlays]

I'm studying film atm and so many students are so pretentious and annoying about their movie tastes, it's pretty common

[@aleisterlilywhite1109]

There’s such a huge difference in saying, “this is bad” and “this isn’t for me”.

[@CruelPizza213]

Ralph the movie maker is definitely the “smug film student” 😂😂 I still enjoy his stuff though

[@ATakTakTak]

There is a very revealing interview with Zombie for the sequel where he says he was inspired by his memories of mental patients being thrown out from hospitals into the streets for budget reasons, left to their own devises regardless of the potential danger to themselves and others. I've come to disagree with the idea that "RZ doesn't understand the original Halloween", he does, he just disagrees with it, and uses these movies to propose a different side, a "reality check" of sorts: no, Michael Myers is not some mysteryous boogieman, he's human, and a victim too, and a mess; no, Loomis is not a saint, he's part of the problem, and in part responsible; and no, Laurie is not "pure", she's still a teenager with all the unpleasent stuff that comes with it and that's fine, and her traumatic experiences REALLY left her traumatized. (I have no problem with Michael seeing Laurie as "the light" and her not living up to it because he also does that with his mother, as the one in his delusions who validates him is nothing like the real one who couldn't take what happened.) When I finish watching these movies I'm left wondering if the people in-universe will speculate and re-tell the events as urban legends, to make it sound more like the original movie, all ambiguously supernatural and with clear good vs. evil characters, all to avoid confronting the ugly unpleasent reality of what happened.

[@clementinedanger]

I couldn't agree more. I'm one of those rare people who finds the original Halloween a little boring *because* there's no motivation behind the killings. It's a slasher movie, and a great one at that, but I object to calling it a horror movie. There's no horror in it. It's people getting stabbed and it works for what it is, but it's not scary on any real level. Zombie's Halloween is a horror movie. I'm not scared of something that can't possibly exist (a robotic stabby man with no inner life), I'm scared of things that are going on right now, and have happened to me and to my friends (horrific failures of institutions meant to protect the vulnerable and the tragedies they create).

[@danwilliams2551]

didn't carpenter said he does not like the idea of michael having a troubles childhood? he said "I thought that he took away the mystique of the story by explaining too much about [Michael Myers]. I don't care about that. He's supposed to be a force of nature. He's supposed to be almost supernatural."

[@clementinedanger]

@@danwilliams2551 He probably did say that, but what am I supposed to do with that? I'm still not scared or moved in any way. Rob Zombie's Halloween moved me and stuck with me and Carpenter's Halloween didn't and that's just the world we're all going to have to live in.

[@alfa01spotivo]

@@clementinedanger idk i find michael killing because he likes it and is twisted much scarier than another story about an abuse victim.

[@alfa01spotivo]

eh disagree with it being a reality check. Its just a different interpretation. There are pure good teenagers out there anyways and definitely some really evil people who had great childhoods. And Loomis in the original spent 7 or 8 years helping michael but eventually realized what he was dealing with

[@damianoakes2592]

I feel like the Rob Zombie films were an important enema after the sequels. Even in a relatively decent film like H20, Michael Myers was as scary as a block of cheese. Rob Zombie made Michael Myers scary again, and while I think the 2018 film did that while keeping the original mystique, I feel like it built off of Zombie's conception in a number of important ways.

[@tommythecat7752]

(Genuine question) What ways do you feel the 2018 film built off of Rob Zombie's remake?

[@damianoakes2592]

@@tommythecat7752 I think the design of the Shape, with the weathered mask and dirty jumpsuit, owes a lot to Rob Zombie's first film. Also, the brutality of the kills in both the 2018 film and its sequel feel very Zombie; Dr. Sartain's death in particular is right out of the 2009 Halloween II.

[@omegazx7236]

The new movies are mixing the atmosphere of the original with the brutality of the Zombie ones in the best way possible

[@Bubba__Sawyer]

@@tommythecat7752 Halloween (2018) and Kills resemble the Rob Zombie Halloween's much more than they do the original.

[@dustinakadustin]

@@Bubba__Sawyer disagree, weathered Michael and more violent kills sure, but the story and pacing and the way the shape moves is right out of the original.

[@ahyes7499]

People just always immediately think you can’t outdo the original, and I agree but sometimes remakes aren’t that bad. This movie was pretty damn well shot and made Micheal a terrifying, violent killer. And I’ve always loved the decay of the mask from being so old. It’s a fresh more terrifying take on a classic. Now Zombies H2 was pretty weird and not a big fan of it

[@dakotaspruell1083]

I agree H2 wasn’t great, but I thought H1 was really good and I don’t think it was ever Zombie’s intention to outdo the original. He’s just clearly a huge fan of Carpenter’s work and wanted to do his own version.

[@dakotaspruell1083]

Also, you can totally outdo an original. The Thing (1982) was better than The Thing from Another World (1951).

[@tommythecat7752]

I don't think many John Carpenter fans are going to say that remakes are inherently bad given that The Thing is his best film.

[@razzprince2877]

I disagree that Michael was terrifying. Once you explain why a person is evil, it's no longer scary and that's something Rob Zombie just didn't understand. The film tried harder to make you sympathise with Myers than it did Laurie which when you truly think about it, is ridiculous

[@Bubba__Sawyer]

The problem right there is thinking they're trying to "outdo" the original. That's not the intention. The intention is to give a different take on the story and characters.

[@loki1456]

I really liked Rob Zombie's Halloween II because it shows what happens after a slasher movie and what that would entail. The characters are scarred, both physically and mentally. I found that so fascinating, so compelling.

[@BugsyFoga]

Knowing the bizarre choices Rob did for Halloween definitely has me wondering how his adaptations of the munsters is gonna turn out.

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

I'm sorry...he's adapting WHAT? 😲

[@DerpinPON3]

Something tells me he'll dial back his usual style and go for something more authentic because the dude is a very passionate, mega Munsters fan. It's a wait and see tbh. Not really a fan of Zombie's work much either (only movie from him I think is good is Devil's Rejects) but he may surprise us with hus Munsters movie.

[@chocolateking1143]

Haha it’s going to be about Hill Billy monsters. No joke he always and I means ALWAYS does the same story line.

[@williamerickson520]

If it ever happens. He's said in a number of interviews that he has tons of projects that never get off the ground. He's even mentioned making a romantic comedy. Good luck on that.

[@Thomas_of_the_forest]

@@DerpinPON3 I agree. I think he is going to do something more authentic for his version for a change, given how much he loves the show!

[@michaelhegwood9977]

Rob Zombie is such a interesting guy and his personal relationships with horror and music alone is really cool

[@hdervish2497]

His music, art, and general aesthetic were such a huge influence on my developmental years. I feel like, even though he's a bit over the top sometimes, he set me on the right path. Or maybe it was Sean.

[@jidgy8547]

Aside from his really gross use of nudity and sex in movies

[@activatewindows]

Agreed. Too bad his movies suck.

[@dickthegimp4280]

@@jidgy8547 What's wrong with nudity and sex?

[@CruelPizza213]

HellBilly Deluxe is such a good album, that shit is on repeat every Halloween for me!

[@GoreyBits]

I personally don’t like them, but they do have their moments. More so with the first entry.

[@SuperPal-tr3go]

Yeah, same. There is substance in them. I just... find them very unappealing and gross. Which is kind of the point but that's like saying you deliberately botched something on purpose.

[@BobbyBriscoeBeats]

The hospital scene/dream from part 2 was absolutely amazing. Both movies are super flawed and I would really love to see zombie team up with a writer in the future. He does ooze style

[@Fleato]

Yeah I liked the first a bit. The second was….. a movie I guess.

[@RsMrsleet]

@@BobbyBriscoeBeats he has a unique horror aesthetic with poor writing

[@BobbyBriscoeBeats]

@@RsMrsleet yes indeed

[@enerioffutt1881]

Apparently, Laurie seeing the white horse at the end of H2, was something her mind came up with as she was dying, which I didn't know until I watched it with the commentary. Up to that point I had NO idea what it was supposed to mean.

[@joshuacarr8677]

Absolutely love the part about approaching art with a sense of openness. That’s such a problem for a lot of people, you gotta appreciate when someone gets over that

[@domjay]

I just remembered seeing the first Rob Zombie one and thinking to myself: “Jesus Christ this is really …… trailer trashy.” LoL

[@dormantlime215]

that's arguably part of his aesthetic; hellbilly deluxe was even the name of one of his albums. He's always utilized that sort of trashy, crusty style and he's gotten quite good at it

[@domjay]

@@dormantlime215 Yeah I wasn’t aware of that at first. As an adult, I can appreciate it now.

[@ninetimesaday]

I didnt understand that because Haddonfield is an upper-middle-class suburb.

[@Bubba__Sawyer]

@@domjay The first part of the movie in the Myers home is trashy. The characters in present day Haddonfield weren't trashy though except for maybe Linda.

[@georgeclinton4524]

I think it would have been a misstep though to approach the remake as if Michael is some complete force of evil who kills for no reason. It works in 1978, but after 29 years of slasher, thriller, and horror films it's not really a take that makes sense for what's basically just a serial killer. You have to do some narrative work to reestablish that, especially after 29 years of fascination and study of real world serial and spree killers. I thought it was good having Michael seemingly show developmental aspects common for serial killers, and the psychologists to think they had a handle on this and then have to admit that something else was going on in his pathology they didn't understand where Michael then ends up as The Shape. To me the entire point of the part where Michael is a kid is to address the 'Isn't he just a serial/spree killer basically?' thing. The doctors try to treat him based on that pathology and fail because he is something else. The serial killer childhood pathology is a red herring presented and discarded as he's not killing for thrills, he just kills anything in his way for no reason.

[@noxington4260]

"The Toyn that Dreaded Sundoyn" is one of my favorite horror movies

[@stevefinnegan5142]

.....hoyever

[@Arannath]

"Because monsters. Sell. Books." ... Librarians; "And I took that personally"

[@filthycasual8187]

Libraries don't sell books though.

[@Arannath]

@@filthycasual8187 Oh right! Bad translation, the french for bookstore is “librairie” the pronunciation is very similar as well. It can be confusing

[@nouh3053]

Who knew Chucky was a poet

[@FaithlessLooter]

I always had issue with him killing Danny Trejo’s character who was the only person to ever be kind to him. Just felt so disconnected from what felt like an attempt to humanize Michael at the beginning by showing him being bullied and implying that’s what pushed him to the edge.

[@Lvnvj]

For real, he let Loomis and Annie both live in the first Halloween but he kills Trejo....doesn't make sense.

[@josefengelhardt2767]

​@@Lvnvj that's another problem i have with this version of Michael he's very inconsistent with his motives first he kills people like the curly haired boy, Ronnie, the two guards and Judith people who were mean and abusive to him. But then later on he kills Danny Trejo and Laurie's Parents because he's supposed to be "Pure Evil" Rob either make him Pure Evil or a Vigilante you can't have him be both. It's weird how Michael is after laurie cause he loves her and he's after her just so they can be a family again not to kill her. And he can tell that she's his sister by sniffing a note she dropped at the Myers house despite the last time he saw her she was a baby so how could he know that

[@trentfarrell]

“5 years after the ultimate showdown between Busta Rhymes and Michael Myers-“ You don’t get enough attention for your genius, sir.

[@meganfaith4052]

The mental whiplash of that line tho. Like, when you think of Halloween do you imagine Busta Rhymes?

[@trentfarrell]

@@meganfaith4052 of course not! That’s what made it such a good line.

[@cryptidcrocheter]

@@meganfaith4052 lol thats the joke...

[@vicariousWrath]

I wanted to like it, but the way the film went about Michael's story and reasoning of being "evil" just made it an undesirable watch that I couldn't sit through it. It had some merits. But it just felt so disconnected from the original that it was in name only.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

I feel like now that we have the 2018 film the Rob Zombie movies are more tolerable since it's sort of an alternate take on Michael. 2018 Michael is evil by nature while Rob Zombie Michael is evil due to nurture. Essentially offers something for multiple parties.

[@JesusGomez-ob2qt]

Isn't that the point? You're supposed to make a remake that is different from thr original otherwise what's the point of remaking something if we already have the original? A great example of this is the 2018 suspiria remake

[@michelangelo1136]

@@JesusGomez-ob2qt well the issue is he humanized Michael.. Micheal is the pure incarcerate of evil that's why the first movie just had him kill his sister just randomly. And his remake Is almost like the original just different cast

[@JesusGomez-ob2qt]

@@michelangelo1136 that's a positive not a issue.. he put a different spin on the character.

[@vicariousWrath]

@@JesusGomez-ob2qt Oh you can still do a remake and stray from the character enough to make them different, yet still manage to keep enough roots to the character to make them still resemble the original. This Michael is ironically, just barely a mask of what he was so well regarded into

[@bofadeez8480]

I feel like Zombie's perspective of Loomis is interesting considering a scrapped version of Halloween 4 actually explicitly showed Loomis physically abusing Michael as a child

[@KurenaiDeyama]

What? Where did you hear that from?

[@bofadeez8480]

@@KurenaiDeyama It's from one of the Taking Shape books I believe. They document the making of the Halloween movies with tons of fun facts and bts things.

[@Lordship1021]

Yeah, no disrespect to john carpenter, but the writers of the o.g. Halloween really made Loomis a bad person if you think about it. He didnt treat michael properly bc he said that he was nothing but the devil in a little boys body. At least in the rob zombie timeline, Loomis cared about michael until he started back killing again

[@incognitofool6516]

@@Lordship1021 That is the whole point of Michael. He is pure evil. He isn't some wayward soul that could have been saved. Every time someone tries to humanize Myers, they make him less scary.

[@Lordship1021]

@@incognitofool6516 the reboot michael is pretty damn scary, and you missed the point. Lumis is supposed to be Michael's doctor, and in the o.g. timeline he refused to do his duty and care for his patient

[@Prozach45]

I love Zombies version. They stand alone from the originals and don't ruin anything, so I don't have anything against them. I loved how grounded and gruesome it was. It makes Michael seem like a legitimate psychopath. Better than the cult of thorn lol

[@Bubba__Sawyer]

Exactly. His Halloween's aren't sequels or prequels that change or retcon the original movies, they're an entirely separate and stand-alone thing. I don't know why people fail to understand that. "hE dIdN't gEt mIcHaEl" no, he was just giving his own unique take on the character.

[@kassemir]

The point about the writing just not being that good is also honestly how I've felt every time I've watched one of his films. I genuinely wonder if he would be at his best if he had some one else write the scripts. Not every one needs to be an auteur and have their hands in every part of the film making process.

[@Sanguivore]

I agree. Zombie’s writing has always been his weakest link and always takes me right out of his stories. He’s clearly passionate and technically capable, and to that end he has my undying respect-but, like you, I’d love to see him work with someone else handling the writing at least once.

[@sebastiansanhueza9601]

Thanks for this video! I confess I didn't get the 2009 remake back when it was released, but when I rewatched it again a couple of years ago before watching the sequel, I kinda realized that Zombie wanted to pull a "what if Mike Myers existed in the real world?" off. And whether you like or dislike that intent, it's super well realized.

[@charlespuruncajas9663]

This reinterpretation was ok, liked how they gave Michael a backstory (more equal to the Columbine kids) and turn him into a brutish force of nature. Also props to Scout Taylor Compton in both movies (her Laurie felt like two different characters and glad they showed how real PTSD victims behave).

[@stephmaroon2913]

Did you know the girl who plays Annie in rob zombie remakes played Jamie in older Halloween movies.

[@jensen1646]

Nothing about the backstory is "equal to the Columbine kids." Neither of them were bullied (in fact they were bullies), had bad homes, or killed animals.

[@markbrowning4334]

Oh, see now that's where Rob screwed up. The lore and mystery of Michael is that he would have no backstory. What made him so great in 1979 was that he just was. No reason. No motive. He just was.

[@charlespuruncajas9663]

@@markbrowning4334 yes, but this is basically a “What If? Scenario” (and let’s be honest the franchise was already dead with H20)

[@charlespuruncajas9663]

@@stephmaroon2913 yes. I think Danielle Harris should have been Laurie Strode in this, kinda like a passing the torch

[@yoshi7422]

“There are also people who can nitpick a film back together” this is literally the dynamic between CinemaSins vs. CinemaWins when they do the same movie

[@doc8013]

Cinema sins is one of the worst, most ignorant things on youtube.

[@heinrichsteinwolf5678]

@@doc8013 sadly one of the most successfull things too

[@doc8013]

@@heinrichsteinwolf5678 yeah, a lot of people hate-watch it but a lot of people genuinely think it's insightful snd smart. Truly is sad.

[@jakerittlinger440]

@@doc8013 do none of you in this thread really realize that channel (CinemaSins) is all sarcasm, and not real commentary?

[@markbrowning4334]

@@jakerittlinger440 the nice thing about cinemasins is that I can watch a lot of would be bad movies in about 20 minutes or less. It saves me the time and money, but I still get the experience. Jeremy makes me laugh as well. His personality and character are a draw for me. I hope he keeps it up.

[@chrisgill261]

Zombie's Halloween was a great re-telling, but he broke the cardinal rule: Michael don't talk. Ever.

[@hellgonwheels8799]

But he only talks as a child. I love this part of the film. Young Michael is so creepy

[@Galvatronover]

@@hellgonwheels8799 no he isn’t I’ve seen it

[@eddykaye8618]

@@hellgonwheels8799 I've always felt like the entire first movie that Rob Zombie made should have been entirely about the kid. The ending should have been when he attacked his family, then part 2 has him breaking out of the Hospital

[@zach346]

@@eddykaye8618 ngl I don’t think anyone could stand watching a hour and half or so of kid Myers Just the family is really fucking unlikeable except Sherry Moon Zombie but god if I had to listen to a entire movie of dialogue from the step dad I would fucking lose it and go on my own murder spree The 2nd half of Halloween (2007) I really fucking enjoy but that first half is just annoying has some solid moments like I love the relationship between Michael and his mom and the kills are great

[@zach346]

Maybe if he could tone it tf down on his type of dialogue it might of worked but man is that dialogue too much sometimes imo I would be interested in that tbh if Zombie would get someone to help write it with him would of loved exploring Michaels relationship with Loomis and his mom more

[@SmoothCriminal12]

Another reviewer said in regards to the opening of Halloween II, "It's as if Zombie wrote himself into a corner thirty pages in and didn't feel like starting over.", that honestly doesn't sound that far fetched.

[@lmaololroflcopter]

I still loathe Zombie's Halloween. Haven't seen his Halloween 2. Maybe this is a bit weird for a horror fan to say, but Halloween '07 is too mean, grim and nasty to be watchable. It's like Zombie wanted to punish and pummel his audience and after a while it gets really boring.

[@SethHMG]

You’re not wrong

[@marreco6347]

That's all his movies, the difference is that this is the one where that doesn't fit the story.

[@iansmart4158]

You gotta see the 2nd one. Makes this one look like child’s play! And also, violence is brutal. I like how zombie doesn’t sanitize it for entertainment. A knife going into someone’s gut is traumatic and awful. I appreciate horror that dwells in that awfulness.

[@lmaololroflcopter]

@@cactusmalone Carpenter’s OG film is unsettling. Zombie’s film is dull.

[@dommoore6180]

@@iansmart4158 yeah but the Halloween series has become something that can be sold to mainstream audiences who want to see JLC on a pedestal and are scared off by anything a bit more hard hitting or more genuine than say H20 or H18. As well as the fact that any Halloween that doesn’t just stick to the generic outline of H1 and/or the slasher cliche is immediately crucified for being “dumb”.

[@princeapoopoo5787]

Just gotta say that it is refreshing to see someone be positive towards the original version as Loomis. It is a different take compared to what I see other critics interpret the character. At least from the first film before the series went batshit. And nice American McGee's Alice shout out! I'd love to see those games covered by you one day.

[@bendaydot6733]

I personally really don’t like Zombie’s first Halloween film. HOWEVER, I really love his second film and how it explores PTSD. Perhaps it’s because I have PTSD myself that I relate to it a lot more.

[@RyanHollinger]

Sorry to hear that! Stay safe!

[@donnybuoy]

THIS. It's a very brutal and very realistic depiction of trauma that doesn't shy away from the ugly parts. It's precisely why I love his H2.

[@emosam07]

H2 is brutal as fuck

[@Funnemuffin]

The second one is dogwater and destroys Michael as a character

[@bendaydot6733]

@@Funnemuffin I disagree. In fact, I liked and welcomed the change. I saw Michael in Zombie’s Halloween II as more of a manifestation of trauma rather than spectral ninja of Death that he usually is. The movie reminded me a lot of Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me with how it mystically explored the nature of violence and trauma. It’s not for everyone though, and I can understand why you might not like it but I personally really love. It’s probably my third favourite Halloween film overall.

[@adamshows1142]

I consider Rob Zombie’s Halloween as if it were in an alternate universe. To me, this is what John Carpenter’s film would’ve been like if it were an exploitation film. The whole premise of a killer stalking and hacking up baby-sitters on Halloween night could’ve easily went with the direction of a quickie trash film, but thanks to John Carpenter (and his crew)’s direction (coming off of the 70’s grindhouse era), made something with it, and that’s why it’s beloved by so many. So these two films are very distinctive in how this concept would go deadening on the artist.

[@rebeccaavern3251]

I really am surprised so many people disliked Rob’s version, considering you know… they were HIS version. His creation. Entirely different from the OG Michael, I am a mega fan of Halloween it’s the first scary movie I watched as a kid and I have had a love for horror ever since! I did really enjoy Rob’s version of Michael, he was brutal, gruesome, and truly terrifying. Even the child version who played him did a great job depicting a child psychopath. In the original we see a more calm, mysterious version Michael but in rob’s version we get the background that played into Michael becoming the killer that he is and it depicts him slowly becoming more and more twisted and detached throughout the film. I also really like the importance of the mask in Rob’s version, when Michael puts on that mask he truly transforms. They did a great job in the scene where he attacks the nurse in the hospital and when his mother (who seems to be one of the only people he loved) removed his mask he STILL loses it on her and shows his true self in that moment and when I think that’s when it finally clicked for her, just exactly what he was, leading to her su*cide.

[@LordAlbrecht]

I don't necessarily feel that Myers' badly depicted homelife is supposed to be seen as reasoning for him becoming a psychopath, rather, I feel RZ was trying to depict the type of household that Michael would have had to grow up in for his blatant murderous tendencies to fly completely under the radar until he murdered his sister Which I find a bit more interesting.

[@baddworld]

EXACTLY

[@sirmang9032]

Myers poor homelife is absolutely the motivation for what he does. Notice he doesn't kill his mom or Boo. Those were the two people in the house who weren't total douchebags to him. His mother genuinely cared for him and Boo, well she was unable to do anything being a baby. Judith was awful to him, Judith's boyfriend, in the limited time we saw him, was awful and Ronny was extremely awful to him and everyone else in the house. Why do you think he gets his revenge by killing the kid at his school who was the biggest bully to him first? RZ turned the Shape into a stereotype.

[@iansmart4158]

That’s a great take that I never considered. I don’t believe a bad home life can turn you into a Michael Meyers. It can maybe spur you in that direction. But I think your instinct is spot on. He was this person long before he ever murdered anyone.

[@LordAlbrecht]

@@sirmang9032 what about all the animals he killed, were they all assholes to him? This was all implied to be happening for a very long time and is described as something growing within him since birth. RZ wanted to throw his own mommy stuff in there and feed some fuel to a root-for-killer dynamic because because it makes for kills that are way more fun to watch. If he killed Lori as a baby then we wouldn't have a movie. And, please, "the mysterious evil that comes from nowhere and is unpredictable" is just as much of a cliche as anything. Theres not a whole lot else you can do with that concept and Carpenter already exhausted it in his original movie.

[@sirmang9032]

@@LordAlbrecht Killing small animals as a child is a cliche gateway into becoming a serial killer as an adult. He was treated like shit by everyone around him and was insignificant and small so the way he made himself feel better about himself and to be bigger and better was to take out his frustration about his home and school life by killing animals. It's pretty textbook stuff...and cliche. The issue is you can't even root for Michael in the movie. By the time he's done killing Machete for no reason, he's just as unlikable as every other character in this movie. That's the biggest problem RZ Halloween suffers from, only one character in this movie is even remotely likable and he's killed off at the mid point. By the time Zombie's fast forward remake of Halloween 78 starts going, you just want everyone to die as quick as possible to get it over with. .

[@akarbit3r111]

I actually didn't mind his remake, feels a bit darker than the original. Haven't gotten around to watching its sequel yet however

[@metalklown]

I really love the remake, but the sequel is not very good lol.

[@akarbit3r111]

@@metalklown been hearing mixed things, some people are like you and others are the opposite and prefer the sequel

[@Sage0fThiccPaths]

Here's how I like to look at them and enjoy them: Halloween (2007) is a remake of the original with an added backstory of Michael's childhood in the beginning, much more brutal violence, and establishes Laurie as Michael's younger sister. Halloween II (2009) is a psychological horror focused on the aftermath of the first film and how it affected the characters that survived, namely Laurie and her PTSD from the experience. It's way more brutal than the first imo, to the point where I had to look away (Nightclub scene, those who have seen it know what I'm talking about) and leans much more into the supernatural elements. TLDR: Halloween (2007) is a modern-take on the old school slasher genre, Halloween II (2009) is a psychological horror with slasher and supernatural elements.

[@theitfactorjameswheezer2852]

@@Sage0fThiccPaths it’s just filled with garbage acting, everyone swearing every 3 seconds, screaming, Random music video edits, awful dialogue, destruction of characters and a dumb ending

[@IAMTRASHMAN267]

only a bit darker? lol

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

I never realize just how long the wait feels until Ryan suddenly uploads again after skipping a week or two. 😆

[@belatalbot4743]

I'd argue that Rob Zombie's Halloween movies are a great "alternate universe" where his sister is Laurie. You still get the brutal kills and the menacing Shape, which, lets face it, is why we watch Halloween. There's still no real justification for his actions, sure the question of nature vs nurture is brought up, but it's never fully answered. And Laurie being obnoxious was fine to me. She's a teenager! Not some holy saint, even as a final girl. She still saved the kids and tried to express her feelings after the incident with Michael. But was she always doomed to the same anger and madness that claimed her brother and the rest of her family?

[@Excremental_Discharge]

I'll say this, the theatrical cut is WAY better than the director's cut for the sole reason that the theatrical cut doesn't have that horrific and totally unnecessary r@pe scene.

[@blackdeth818]

Thats the whole reason why I didn't like that cut. It absolutely wasn't necessary and did nothing for the story. It kind of diminished Michaels "evil" trait by basically making him not all that bad after he killed the rapists. Kinda confusing but it was satisfying seeing their deaths

[@Excremental_Discharge]

@@blackdeth818 💯 The theatrical cut has Michael killing his way out. Whoever thought that that r@pe scene was better than Michael killing Bill Mosley and other icons is a certified imbecile

[@xmissconductx]

@@Excremental_Discharge I like the Director's Cut better but I agree that rape scene was unnecessary. I prefer the DC mostly because of the scenes with Laurie

[@standarddef8769]

Horrific rape scene. Second only to 'Irreversible'.

[@awolf2393]

@@standarddef8769 Irreversible is nothing compared to 'I spit on your grave'.

[@maniac6933]

My only real issue with the Rob Zombie version was giving a reason for Michael 'snapping' with his abuse and toxic environment. It is scarier IMO that a otherwise normal kid just loses it one day.

[@AmericanGadfly]

The others gave him a reason too, just took 6 movies to get there 🤷‍♂️

[@maxwellpowell7413]

I didn’t mind the abusive household stuff. I just didn’t find the kid scary.

[@flightofthebumblebee9529]

@@maxwellpowell7413 I did not find the kid to be scary either but I found the giant terrifying psychopath that he grew into very much scary.

[@alienboy1322]

Not to mention that Zombie's Halloween have one of those kind of characters who are so hateful, not only are you counting the moments they die, you can feel your quality of life decrease everytime they're on screen.

[@screamthroughdreams]

I feel like the shitty childhood is there to make Michael into more of an anti hero. The people he goes for initially are all garbage people and seeing them get messed up feels like some kind of justice.

[@glittersoop]

FOR THE ALGORITHM. also, pls pls do “these final hours”. i would argue it’s incredibly scary, in many different ways.

[@IoleAllia]

I just want to offer my perspective on the remake solely on Michael's upbringing and connection to Laurie; Considering the inspiration behind the Shape being a child in an asylum I very much prefer the humanization of Michael Myers as opposed to the assumption that he's pure evil. Especially with the take that Laurie's his baby sister - the idea that he is going after her more in an effort to silence what's in his head rather than because he wanted her or Judith dead appeals more to me than anything else. That's not to say the rest of the remake holds up but I prefer the vision of Michael as a child who was seriously missing out on help he needed and made worse by a clout chasing doctor than just "evil mental illness is why". That's about the only thing I'll give Zombie over Carpenter. Also for the what's next I'd love to see your take on Crimson Peak or Mama

[@bloeffler]

As an American, I get so giddy every time I hear Ryan say “the town that dreaded sundown”

[@antoniobrown247]

Man I'm expecting so many videos from you time of the year that I'm rewatching all your older videos like Lake Mungo.

[@nopenotme1138]

Just as I was forced to accept I've finally binged everything on this channel, I get a notification. I LOVE your content, dude! Hands down my new favorite channel on KZbin! 🍻

[@robertr798]

Zombie is an exceptional visual artist, but he really should work with a co-writer. It's not just that he opted to explain Myers' behavior with a paint-by-numbers origin story, but his dialogue outside of the Firefly series rarely feels like a natural fit.

[@boobootittleman7299]

I really like Michael’s viciousness in the Zombie films. I’m not the biggest fan of the Zombie films and I have plenty of problems with it, but Michael’s portrayal is definitely not one of the them.

[@dyingwaffle95]

It's how I viewed Michael as a kid tbh but rewatching the old films made me see how much more passive he is.

[@jolanjakers8380]

Yeah that first kill with the nurse is so good. You can hear him cracking ribs with every stab.

[@kylepaulk4709]

That's how I feel, Tyler Mane's sheer physicality made Michael a terrifying presence as opposed to what looked like just a dude in a mask.

[@skyman6936]

I'm glad that you came around on this remake. I remember being underwhelmed with Halloween as a movie that failed to frighten me as a child. The remake shook me up, I was genuinely afraid of the remake as a teen, when the original didn't scare me as a child.

[@TheAbigailDee]

I also just love that Rob Zombie just seems like a little guy. He has his wild movies and he lives on a farm and he is a vegan and he loves monsters. Like, I love it. He's just a little fellow. And I'm a sucker for Grindhouse so these films are both fun for me, just in very different universes.

[@Rosie199X]

Just watched the remake again the other day and have been looking for more conversation around it. I think Zombie has a lot of talent as a director and knows how to frame and place shots. Where he goes wrong is writing (as you said) and character work. But that's why I think the second half of the remake is very effective. He's working within the constraints of someone else's writing. I have no interest in the sequel and likely will never watch it, but the remake is (in my opinion) by far Zombie's best movie and way more preferable to something like 5, 6, or Resurrection. At least you can feel the passion in it and that's something you can't say about a lot of other movies in the slasher genre.

[@iansmart4158]

Check out the sequel. It’s worth it.

[@hailmaryrecordings8255]

I think the first hour of Zombie’s remake is pretty brilliant, actually. I don’t understand *hate* for this film.

[@mrdrprofsteve506]

For me it has to do with as ryan said nature vs nurture. I liked the original interpretation that Michael is just straight up evil. Additionally it was during this time that a lot of horror movies were leaning towards nurture than nature. So it just felt like another "oh this serial killer, ghost, spirit is acting this way because they have a tragic past" this is just my opinion though

[@MistyWarden]

@@mrdrprofsteve506 a lot of people also see the “tragic past” angle and humanizing serial killers as an excuse or attempt at redemption and they’d prefer the distance that “he’s just inhuman evil” gives. I personally found the Machine from 8mm more chilling because he had no reason to be evil and just always enjoyed it.

[@sirmang9032]

Here's how you make a horror movie work... You need to develop characters with personalities you care about and want to see overcome the killer or whatever situation that is put in front of them that's a threat to their lives. All of these characters in this film are absolutely awful who you simply don't give a shit about if they live or die. I would say the film actually does a better job getting sympathy for Michael. But Michael is pretty unlikable himself killing animals and being a whiny little bitch. So you have awful unlikable characters chased around by an awful unlikable killer. With way too much emphasis on why Michael is the way he is by doing it in the most stereotypical way possible.

[@joaopedrogoncalves7741]

Better than the original

[@StabYourBrain]

@@mrdrprofsteve506 I honestly like Zombie's approach of "No one is born evil". It gives context to Micheals evil and makes it relatable and human. Afterall Micheal IS human and in Zombies Movie he also isn't invincible like he was in the originals. I also kind of believe in this "No one is born evil" thing.

[@gillywinters1162]

This is one of my favorite movies in the series. I understand it’s not for everyone especially part 2 but I think they are both really interesting and something completely left field for the franchise. The 2007 film is one of the most watchable in the series in my opinion.

[@tannergallie9061]

I find zombies portrayal of Myers more eerie. A paranormal killer created by a cult doesn't do anything to me but an abused child killing his sister than breaking out of a psych ward years later to go on a killing spree seems more realistic like it could actually happen and that's what's scary to me. As soon as something gets explained as paranormal it just feels like lazy writing. My only thing with the zombies remakes though is how Myers survived the gunshots and falling off the balcony if he's just a regular albeit very messed up guy. Other than that plot point I preferred his version over the carpenter version I find it kind of hard to get through.

[@DavidSedano]

I've always felt that Zombie's biggest mistake was Michael growing up in a broken home. I feel it would've had even greater depth and terror if it had shown him grow up in your average, fun, happy, suburban family and the murders came out of nowhere

[@dig4587]

I like the idea that this movie is the bizarro version of the original, I think I prefer him having a wildly different backstory for this version

[@kingstarscream320]

One thing I give major props for is the casting of Loomis. Malcolm McDowell is a legend. It is a pity he wasn’t able to play the character in a better written film.

[@d4mdcykey]

_"Was ROB ZOMBIE's Halloween REMAKE Really That BAD?!"_ Honestly I've never understood the hate this film got, I loved it from the very first viewing and all the subsequent watches have not diluted that whatsoever. His second installment however I felt was just a rush job and never really had the impact or the visceral brilliance of the first. From those I personally know the rejection of the film were mostly the Halloween purists who, by default, are going to find fault in every tiny detail somehow missing the fact that the original came with its own flaws.

[@felixfungle-bung4688]

Right? I loved his first film. It's a bizarre reception among fans because Halloween fans have been given garbage after garbage but it's the Zombie's film that's becomes the last straw. In my opinion Halloween 3, curse of Michael, H20, Resurrection, Halloween 2018 all sucked.

[@alienboy1322]

@@felixfungle-bung4688 I would rather watch 2018 Halloween than Rob Zombie's Halloween. I can NOT put myself through the obnoxious hatred of the characters in the beginning again.

[@felixfungle-bung4688]

@@alienboy1322 I'm just pointing out that most of these horror movies had maybe 1 to 2 possibly 3 good movies and the rest were cash grabs or studios holding onto the rights.

[@charlespuruncajas9663]

Yes, the Halloween movies by Zombie were a nice reinterpretation (for 2000’s audiences), and feels like a What If scenario of the original film: What If Michael Myers grew up on a dysfunctional family? What if Loomis was actually an opportunist rather than a hero? (and H2 answers what could be of Loomis if he became famous while believing Myers is dead?), and of course What If Laurie was a not so innocent teen?

[@Periodik]

Or people just generally didn't like it because the plot was bad, the characters were annoying and the differences Rob Zombie tried to pull off didn't work. Just because some people don't enjoy it doesn't mean you have to devalue their opinion.

[@rkochamp07]

I would love to see your take on the Evil Dead remake. I actually like it a bit more than the original which is an extremely controversial take lol

[@milksweet6038]

I know it’s controversial but if I’m going to put them in order of my favorite ones it’s going to go Evil Dead 2, the evil dead remake, army of darkness & then the original. The remake is so much better than anyone ever gave it credit for. It’s like The Thing vs The Thing from Another World to me..

[@Whiston555]

That movie is kinda like the positive version of the zombie Halloween movies in that they decided to take the story and do it in a different version, except the Evil Dead retelling was still enjoyable. Like it’s uncomfortable but the “good kind” vs Halloween just being… uncomfortable

[@edmonddantes563]

Not a bad take, remake is among the best remakes. Does justice to the originals

[@Postaldude2003]

It was good, but I'm sorry, the lack of Bruce Campbell huuurrrrttt

[@Gabe-z8o]

Rob zombies two Halloween movies were both GREAT movies. I don’t get why so many fans wanted an exact replica of the original because that already exists, and so much of the eye rolling those two entries get is based on it being too different from the Michael they knew and loved. If I had never seen any Halloween film and then saw his I would freaking love the series still, he made it so brutal, realistic and just plain awesome.

[@solcutta3661]

The most fantastic ever filmed piece of Rob zombies is from the movie - house of 1000 corpses. And is when the two policeman and the retired detective go to the rejects House. Whilst the old grimey moustached sheriff sits taking to Sherri Houston the young buck sherif and retired dude explore outside.. They open a barn door to find a gaggle of old and new corpses and body's hung up, laid down and exhibited..music then shuts all sound out and the song is the country and western I remember you. (what a phenomenal choice that just so goes with the scene) Rushing out to be sick the young one leaves the elderly to hop to his and do a runner back to the cars.. He doesn't make it. Gunned in the back by our anti hero he lands in a puddle whilst the young buck looks on horrified and freaked out, kneeling he follows orders throws his pistol down...our antihero aims at this forehead.. The music stops.. The camera pans up and back in silence.. The pan is held much longer than any other film maker and more than we anticipate... Suddenly the sound of gunshot and birds flying from trees is heard and the sherif drops to the floor dead.. What a absolutely cinematic expertly done magnificent piece of film making.. That song is what gives it its gravitas tho.. Amazing.

[@andyjacobs5797]

For me, I didn’t care for zombie making Michael’s family a poverty hillbilly family. I think it would’ve been scarier if it was like a middle class and normal family having a young son that snaps.

[@Talesfromtheshelf]

The thing about Meyers is that he isn’t all that brutal. He kills, sure, but after the original they really amped up the gore to coincide with audience expectations during the slasher boom of the early 80s

[@zant41]

Yeah people tend to forget that we have a grand total of 5 deaths in the original movie, one of which is a body never mentioned just out of frame for like, 5 seconds. It wasn't really about the kills.

[@tiagov.s.2693]

@@zant41 Halloween was simply all about the "atmosphere". Just tension filled, creepy, "spot Michael in the background" style of atmosphere. Not creative and gory kills

[@NorthernLadMSP]

I love the first Zombie Halloween film. I think it's insanely creepy and brutal.

[@sagekaley]

with the original halloween, i think you're right. it's not that it was the first slasher or even the first slasher of its type. but the way michael was written and his actor's skill at showing that inhuman humanity really made it memorable. i think laurie, too, really did a wonderful job as the leading lady, very average and innocent in a way that made you desperate for her to escape alive. so basically it did enough right to become the star of slashers. as for rob zombie's, i ultimately feel like it should have been an original story. what he wanted to do with it i think is neat but just doesn't work within the framework of halloween itself (the darkness lurking in suburbia). so it's a weird spot to be in, though i think the way he wrote laurie wouldn't work regardless since she winds up feeling very typical teen death fodder instead of the main character. they're neat ideas but i guess that's why i want to see him expand on them more in his own works rather than remakes.

[@BearPawSwipe]

I always liked these two movies. It didn't bother me the changes. I liked that Michael didn't follow the rules that were established because a serial killer like that wouldn't. He wouldn't care if people are kind to him, he learned young that the only outcome he can control is death. I liked that the characters were all awful and no one was some goody two shoes because no one is perfect. It was a nice contrast to the formula.

[@thebat4945]

I really enjoyed his take on the character. It's different in a good way. And if it's not your thing. You can skip it without damaging the legacy of the original

[@Tames-ILLA]

When it comes to Michael once he gets the mask on and becomes the “shape”’ There’s never been a more brutal, terrifyingly imposing portrayal of the character in the series. If you take out everything and focus on Myers himself it’s my favourite depiction due to how intimidating he is in the zombie movies. Halloween kills could take that mantle from what we’ve heard and seen so far but something about Michael in these two movies rubs me the wrong way, in a good way, if that makes sense.

[@JayMeDee]

That made sense lol

[@Harrock]

I actually liked the Zombie version … all that beginning and origin story was kinda satisfying to watch

[@krishanubanerjee6955]

I've always felt like Rob Zombie has never made a single *remake* in his life. He takes a core concept and then makes an *original* version of it in an alternate universe. His movies should be treated as originals.

[@coffinshaker]

That whole franchise was in the toilet when Rob made his two versions. Nobody can bitch about that. Halloween 5 on were just cheap money grabs. His movies weren't nearly as poorly acted as the first 4 (including III) and he created way more atmosphere and realism. People don't understand these are stand-alone movies and were never intended to be compared to the originals. For what they are they are amazingly effective and fun.

[@Bubba__Sawyer]

Good point. It's hardly like RZ came along and ruined a good thing. The franchise had gone completely off the rails several times already, and the last movie we had in the series was Resurrection. How do you follow-up that steaming pile of shit? Horror movies were in the toilet in the mid 2000s. Rob Zombie was very in demand after The Devil's Rejects, which was by far the most interesting and unique horror movie to come along in a very long time. Don't be angry at Rob, be angry at every other writer and director that were serving up nothing but derivative trash in the horror genre.

[@mofftarkin6010]

I don't think Rob Zombie's Halloween remake sucks. I like how Michael Myers is a giant. It's just Rob Zombie characters that made the remake suck.

[@aaronp4689]

Him being giant and monstrous completely goes against the character of Michael. He’s supposed to just be an average every day guy.

[@mofftarkin6010]

@@aaronp4689 I know but he look cool big.

[@rh7474]

@@aaronp4689 There was nothing average about the original Michael Meyers. He looked huge and was constantly overpowering people. Maybe some of that was just the magic of how they shot it but they definitely intended to present him as larger than life.

[@xmissconductx]

I really love Zombie's Halloween 2 (Specifically the Director's Cut- it is actually quite different than the theatrical version- even the ending.) I liked that it portrayed the different ways PTSD can present in people through Laurie, Annie and Loomis.

[@jwanha665]

Zombies Halloween 2 is one of my favorite in the franchise. Next to the III and the original

[@Parscuit]

Big respect to shouting out them good ole' LPotL boys!

[@colinmallery50]

Hey I don’t know where else to ask but I remember a horror movie as a kid and for the life of me I can’t remember it’s name or if it even exists at this point. It’s about a woman getting on a train late at night, and it’s taking hours for it to reach her destination, when she tries to get off the train everyone else on the train turns into skeletons, but when she closes the door they’re people again. Does anyone know what I’m talking about? For the life of me I cannot find it anywhere online

[@KBXband]

In my opinion it seems like Zombie writes a first draft and then immediately goes to shoot it. The writing made everyone unbearable to the point that I couldnt wait for Michael to start hacking them up. Only then I realized he was the protagonist in a world of terrible people and essentially he was the ultimate evil, killing anyone whether they had a tainted conscience or not.

[@JeremyBell97]

I dunno, I respect Rob Zombie and all but personally his movies just feel too… mean-spirited? For me to really enjoy

[@julesrules7297]

I agree. I want to be scared, not depressed. I can be depressed for free.

[@itsanightmaresobeware7777]

Snowflake

[@itsanightmaresobeware7777]

@@julesrules7297 snowflake

[@julesrules7297]

@@itsanightmaresobeware7777 Ass clown

[@esppupsnkits4560]

@@itsanightmaresobeware7777 hello mr troll, how are you today

[@andrewdurden6550]

I'm with you on Loomis. I like how Zombie makes him a shitty celeb in the sequel and that he is almost trash. I'm glad you tackled these. They are kinda trash.... but they are my trash.

[@ErrmNoo]

The one thing I took away from Rob Zombies Halloween is that it has to have the scariest Michael Myers. Guys terrifying.

[@KthuLew]

Where I think Zombie failed the most is trying to humanize Michael. As stated, he's meant to be pure evil, not somebody you feel bad for because he comes from a broken home. In the original, it's clear his family is well off, which makes what he does so unsettling. No reason or motivation given when he kills Judith. As far as how Michael acts in the 2007 film is also against the meticulous nature and lack of any emotion Michael is known for when carrying out his murder sprees. Zombie turned the no reason to kill Boogeyman into just another twisted guy with a bad upbringing because of an abusive family. It feels like Zombie got Leatherface and Myers confused in terms of characterization. It's bad.

[@eliaspickering4036]

I'm fairly certain that for these movies, Rob Zombie got most of the dialogue from grafitti in gas station bathrooms.

[@NestingSpider]

NO, it wasn't awful...I liked it alot...different take, different vision... BUT BRUTAL AS HELL KILLS. And that's what I like. And Sherry Moon stripping...a plus.

[@stephennootens916]

If there is one thing I really like about Zombie's Halloween is his Laurie who feels like a real teenage girl instead of the perfect pure version only a middle age person would right.

[@jeffrey1954]

I don't think Jamie Lee's Laurie Strode was unrealistic. Nerdy, introverted girls do exist and in 1978, not everybody was so jaded about the world they lived in. Just my take.

[@TarksGauntlet]

On the note of John Carpenter giving Rob his blessing... John will kind of say/do anything if he thinks it'll help PR and he gets a paycheque. This is the same guy that said "The Thing PS2" is the canonical sequel to the movie and that blatantly takes all the mystery out of the end of the first film in the worst ways it can.

[@samuelbarber6177]

I think this film really misunderstood the true spirit of the original, ie, that the tragedy of the film isn’t that Michael Myers was once a child who went mad, but that four people had to die because of the incompetence of the system when containing a beast that was pure evil. The Shape is frightening because of its lack of identity or backstory and telling his backstory is antithetical to that, not to mention making the film more of an exploitation Grindhouse kind of film also forgets this. The film didn’t seem to understand if it wanted to be a direct retelling of the first film or something different.

[@DJtheBlack-RibbonedRose]

I've seen the first Rob Zombie film and was surprised to learn it garnered a sequel. As someone who'd heard of but never saw the original Halloween, I thought it was...interesting, to say the least. Heavily leaned into the 2000's exploitation craze to the point of being somewhat over-bearing? Absolutely. But I found the deeper & longer exploration of Michael Myers' past to be a really interesting angle. That being said, it probably would've fared better had it just been a movie solely devoted to that. By the time we shift over to Laurie & crew, it feels sudden, rushed, and under-developed. I understand the sequel directly picks up on that front but I think it would've been better had it been a two-part duology in which the first Halloween is entirely about Michael and the second film is entirely about Laurie, the latter perhaps giving them a deeper connection aside from long-lost siblings. Like, Idk, maybe there's a weird protective angle he has over her due to lasting reminders of his abusive up-bringing. 🎃 Also, Malcolm McDowell was quite solid in the role of Dr. Loomis I think. 👏

[@glitchgoblin1338]

I remember really loving rob zombie movies when I was an Edgelord teen, but now I can barely watch most of them.

[@andrewhuggins2556]

I saw this before I watched Zombie's other movies. I actually do enjoy the newer depiction of Michael's backstory. Definitely way better than the cult of thorn nonsense.

[@letsgetchino6669]

Facts!

[@dommoore6180]

Except the cult had nothing to do with his character background... Definitely worth rewatching that film and maybe paying a bit more attention next time (also don’t watch the PC, best case watch the TV cut or Hybrid cut but definitely not the PC as it’s edit screwed the story by retaining relics from far earlier scripts).

[@derekleppla8192]

31 , devils rejects , 3 from hell , and a house of 1000 corpses are all really good i like the grit he brings

[@Johncornwell103]

I want a remake of Halloween where Michael Myers wasn't evil but Dr Loomis and the mental institution make him that way, and Dr. Loomis isn't trying to stop Michael out of compassion but to cover his ass. Michael also just confuses Laurie for his older sister and wants his family back. Have the opening scene show a remorseful Michael when he realizes what he done to his older sister. Show scenes when Michael is institutionalized, be forced to take medication he doesn't need and solitary confinement as a means of controlling him.

[@RichardWolfe79]

I think they’re excellent. I’m a fan of the storyline, grit, and cast.

[@hellgonwheels8799]

Agreed! Love the build up

[@seanmaher2987]

The grit! Yes.

[@elijahblechman8633]

@@seanmaher2987 this is why I love the zombie films.

[@Bubba__Sawyer]

It's by far the most daring and ambitious horror remake. Every other remake was nothing but a watered down and bland 'update' of the original. I guess dumbass horror fans wanted another dull Platinum Dunes remake though. Horror fans set the bar so low.

[@jefferyjones8399]

They aren’t my favorite but I appreciate that he did something different, especially with the second one.

[@PhunnyConflicts]

I actually really like Rob's version of Halloween. As a person who follow true crimes of serial killers, Rob's version of Micheal mirrors it pretty well. It gave us a reason why he does it, rather than just accepting that he does it. Get it? His Micheal is as gruesome and as scary as real serial killers. The only thing that Rob didn't include was cannibalism like some notorious serial killers usually resorts too.

[@Mischief_Manager93]

I too enjoy true crime stories which is why I also enjoyed this. A lot of people say Michael coming from a broken, abusive home is cliche but it's also realistic as is his torturing of animals as a kid. People also gripe that this movie gave Michael a more fleshed out back story but in my opinion I like that as I'm one of those weirdos who gets bored of a mystery if it's never solved.

[@PhunnyConflicts]

@@Mischief_Manager93 def agree. Kinda odd to say, but Rob zombie actually made Micheal more humanistic than monster in his version.

[@pipermarie8393]

I saw this by myself in the theater. There was a mom and daughter there too so it was just us 3. I thought it was odd a mom and daughter would be watching this together but I’m weird so 🤷🏾‍♀️ lol. Well not even 10 mins in, just when the messed up family dynamites kicked in and they were so disgusted they walked out lol. So I always use this movie as my disgust scale. Also get friends stabbing in both movies is probably the most brutal stabbing death by movie for me. Rob’s way of conveying the carnage was epic. I can still remember hearing what sounded like the knife scrapping the bone 😱

[@fernie-fernandez]

It’s worth noting that both films were meddled by The Weinsteins, he admitted in his interview with Joe Rogan (Of all people) that he admitted he initially attempted to rebooted as a horror-comedy, something that Halloween: Resurrection also did… Also, H2 was so studio-driven to the point Zombie had almost no creative control, JoBlo even documented the mishap! Interestingly, Zombie initially didn’t want to directed the 2007 film from the Weinsteins, as he would need the blessings from Carpenter, which he succeeded… PS I weirdly thought the film’s risqué and mean-spirited nature was almost…Friday The 13th-ish…was Zombie meant to helm Jason…!?