How Will Another Disappointing Playoff Exit Impact KD’s Legacy? | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

On last night’s episode of ‘The Bill Simmons Podcast,’ Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo discuss the bigger picture legacy ramifications of Kevin Durant and the Suns being swept by the Timberwolves in the first round of the playoffs.
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[@JeewanthaBandara]

Bill will never bash KD like he would Lebron. KD has been his guy since the draft. Ever since Bill got the KD over Oden correct, he's treated KD like his own project. He's done podcasts with him, defended nearly all of his moves, and consistently mentioned him as a top 12-15 player of all time. This is the closest we will see him criticizing KD.

[@SomeChink]

because KD is just not on that level for better or worse, we don’t hold him to that high standard because we know he’s not

[@helbingstein8429]

Kd fuck-ed up big time.

[@mjwbulich]

Only one of those players the "The Chosen One" tattooed on his back. Only onevof those players has proclaimed himself the best ever. It's a lot harder to rip on a guy that's not constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

[@bajaro3455]

Can Bill finally admit he was wrong about KD being better than LeBron in 2017-2018? The level of difficulty by LeBron was far tougher than KD. We just saw him fold vs the Warriors the prior season and the Cavs were scared shitless of the 3 point line/STeph. That played a huge role in KD "seeming the best"

[@edgardoMurnia]

Finally admit? MF just said he was "unequivocally" the best those years. Lol.

[@bronzeandsteel3344]

Durant has always wanted #1 option credit for #2 option responsibility.

[@CD-gk9ix]

He wants bench player responsibility

[@Van_ax]

Durant has been one of the best first options ever. 4 WCF in 6 years and 1 finals, before joining the warriors

[@nocturne311]

@@Van_axJayson Tatum has made four Conference Finals and a Finals at a younger age than Durant did. Does that make him one of the best #1 options as well? You can’t just use team success to prop up a player’s greatness. Durant probably is one of the best #1 options ever, but not primarily because of what the Thunder did as a team from 2011-2016.

[@mookz34]

@@Van_ax If he never joined GSW, we'd be comparing him to Karl Malone, CP3, Harden, and Barkley.

[@JM-qn3tf]

@@CD-gk9ixhe wants to be josh hart

[@cc_chris]

He'll be remembered primarily for being a great player, but also for failing to lead a team to a championship on his own---he'll never get that kind of credit and his two championships feel more hollow with each subsequent playoff exit.

[@JeewanthaBandara]

He's the perfect personification of the Twitter era NBA superstar. A little too much time spent on the internet for his own good, constantly trying to refine his own image, and a hint of depression. I kind of understand his mental struggles to be honest.

[@kennethko1534]

He's borderline becoming an empty stats guy. All-time stats but not all-time winning. I'm not saying he's like a Marbury or Arenas, but he's low-key and very subtly putting up far fewer wins than his stats would suggest.

[@briandavey1139]

Well said

[@jhank0cean]

@@kennethko1534 Respect due to Marbury... he was on some TRASH teams lmao

[@openmike4559]

@@kennethko1534your iq is below 49.

[@untexan]

KD is the poster child for “don’t let players build your team for you”

[@tommartyn524]

I’m from phoenix, a huge suns fan and I’ve been calling booker overrated for years. He’s choked the past three postseasons. It’s time to rebuild. Trade Booker to the nets for our picks back and trade Durant to the Knick’s for a few good picks. The day we passed on donic was the beginning of the end. Imagine a team with Luka, Booker and bridges right now and all of our draft capital.

[@seanpidduck]

I would trade for Josh Giddey and 4 of the best OKC picks You need a PG and future draft capital Shai and Book is a nasty backcourt even if he is overrated

[@tommartyn524]

@@seanpidduck the problem with that is, the nets would benefit from the suns tanking. I’d rather have our picks back. Rebuilds are hard to do when you don’t have your picks to work with.

[@richardkenny7555]

Agree 100% it is sell now or lost decade.

[@David-iv6je]

Fans are ungrateful. Book got you to the Finals as the best guy on the team. It's the best any fan hope for, to contend. And if you want to gripe, focus it on the underachieving Ayton. I was SO excited about that guy but he never became who we thought he should. And when he's not adding to his game every summer you know why. As for now, KD and Book showed up. But Beal was totally outmatched and it's a badly constructed roster. Blame your dumb billionaire owner.

[@tommartyn524]

@@David-iv6je Booker has choked in the last three postseason. Y’all don’t wanna talk about that. He was bad in games 5/6 in the finals. He was bad in game 7 against the mavs. He was bad in games 5/6 against the nuggets. He only had one good game against the wolves. He’s been a choker for awhile. I’ve been calling him overrated for years and now other people are starting to see it. It’s time to move on.

[@irishboy59]

Mr excuse Bill Simmons here…

[@FranciscoFerreira-gc6xu]

Beal trade was terrible. The KD trade is acceptable.

[@kennethko1534]

They should've just shook up the 4 or 5 role guys they want around Booker and Durant instead of trying for a 3rd "star." Beal was a star 5 years ago, I personally wouldn't consider him a star today.

[@Geeandrezzi]

@@kennethko1534Beal was never a “star”. Great scorer on a bad team, nothing more or less

[@Andrew034]

The KD trade directly led to the Beal trade. So they're either both terrible or acceptable.

[@connersong9898]

It’s funny how soft bill is when it comes to KD but rips lebron

[@j0dahighs0undz76]

Yoooooooooo I was just thinking that… like WTF🤨

[@michaelturley3457]

Cause KD isn’t a weird cringe pathological lying narcissist that calls himself the Sun when he loses in the playoffs. KD just made no excuses and said they need to get better, like a real man. LeBron tells us how basketball doesn’t matter despite dedicating his entire life for it and admitting he’s let down his loved ones to focus on it.

[@seanpidduck]

Lebron destroyed the Celtics lol

[@insomatic420]

Cause Lebron is in the goat convo and Kevin isnt, he hold Lebron to a higher standard

[@connersong9898]

@@michaelturley3457 big bill fan I see

[@Pickn4Gold]

Goes to show continuity and having a team really know each other on the court matters. You can throw some of the best players in the game on the same team but it doesn't mean they'll be good.

[@skylergreathouse2319]

*be as good as teams with multi year chemistry

[@Jerm408502]

One amazing 2 year run with a 73-9 team and he's been a disaster ever since. He's tried to do his own version of what LeBron had done, forming his own teams, but he's had none of the success that LeBron has. He gets a ridiculous amount of praise and credit for losing to the Bucks in the 2nd round. Which was the last time that he's been dominant.

[@michaelturley3457]

If not winning a ring is pathetic, do you call Barkley, Nash, Elgin Baylor, Malone, Stockton, Iverson pathetic? Was KG pathetic before the Celtics. Durants always played well, he hasn’t failed just because he hasn’t had the team around him to win. He shouldn’t have chose Kyrie as his running mate but you’re acting like he’s Westbrook shooting sub 40% in the playoffs most years and that’s not the case. He didn’t force his way out of Brooklyn either, everyone else he was with did until he was the last one there and it made no sense for him to stick around on a rebuild. It’s insane he gets more blame for Kyrie and James quitting on the Nets than they do.

[@dparks2856]

​@@poorchris KD had no achievements without the warriors. What does that say?

[@michaelturley3457]

@@dparks2856 it’s says that he wasted 9 years playing with a dude with the lowest basketball IQ amongst any star in the NBA in Westbrook and if you disagree you didn’t watch Westbrook enough or closely enough, the man was a fucking disaster in clutch moments in the playoffs. Then he had two basket cases with Harden and Kyrie that also couldn’t stay healthy or happy. He’s a top 15 player unquestionably.

[@dparks2856]

@@michaelturley3457 Naw. Kd helped blow that 3 to 1 lead

[@johnnycash8567]

@@michaelturley3457he’s not pathetic but he’s better than all those players tho. When he got to the finals at 23 I thought he would challenge Jordan as the greatest one day. When bill put him top 15 all time that was premature, he’s probably closer to top 18-20

[@soysaucehairdye7869]

KD is going to spend all off-season defending his legacy on his 30+ burner accounts.

[@blaketindle4703]

Barkley was right. He’s just a bus rider.

[@Van_ax]

He carried teams to finals and deep playoff runs in okc. He’s anything but a bus rider

[@ShinyRay89]

Bill's bias towards KD is unbecoming for someone who views himself as a true historian

[@chopin1975-tq3gx]

Lebrons 2018 season is more impressive than durants 2 championships

[@WeMissDimebag]

Steph’s 2022 season is more impressive than KD’s 2 titles lol Will never understand how KD dodges so much deserved criticism. Has gotten outplayed by an opposing wing player repeatedly since leaving GS.

[@DYoon007]

Facts

[@openmike4559]

Your logic is for preschoolers .

[@chopin1975-tq3gx]

@@openmike4559 my opinion on lebrons 2018 season being more impressive than durants is the logic of preschoolers?

[@Van_ax]

@@WeMissDimebagDurant outplayed Gianni’s….hes just older now? What are you talking about

[@apierre6]

As Tim legler put it regarding Kevin Durant "there is a difference between the type of talent you are and the type of career you've had". Durant is One of the most talented players in history but has accomplishments don't match up with that given his poor decision making off the court.

[@nocturne311]

Since leaving the Warriors, Durant is 13-18 in playoff games and hasn’t made it past the second round.

[@michaelrhudak]

If anything else he'll be a model example of how a player can bounce back from a ruptured Achilles tendon.

[@edgardoMurnia]

Lol no

[@WhelmedButReady]

I'm not gonna lie, as he continues to have midling disappoinent after midling disappointment as his peers have continued to have success at the same age (LeBron and Steph winning titles at 34+) has severely hurt his legacy in my eyes. He was never Top 20 for me anyways but now he's just plummeting.

[@edgardoMurnia]

He aint better than Nowitzki. No way no freaking way

[@cozyfades1587]

This mf got all the smoke for Bron but he handling KD with kid gloves 😂😂😂

[@David-iv6je]

Very different personalities. Watch LeBron flop, wrinkle up his forehead (but then get Botox so his forehead won't wrinkle) and rip into teammates when he misses defensive assignments or rip into management when he forced terrible trades. KD's biggest sins were not liking playing with Russ and not liking playing with Draymond. Do we blame him for either? I don't. The Beal trade was abysmal and they didn't get value for Ayton.

[@masala716]

@@David-iv6je LeBron won a title everywhere he's been. KD hasnt.

[@erikescobar6616]

@@David-iv6je joining a 73-9 team that beat him was ridiculously weak. The weakest move in NBA history by far

[@David-iv6je]

@@masala716 Bron picks his rosters better, eh?

[@cozyfades1587]

@@David-iv6je we got a word for people like you

[@CD-gk9ix]

Waiting for the KD excuses

[@MJJ200]

The only way people would stop hating on KD once he joined GS was if he stayed in GS and became a legend there with steph but he came got his rings and left when it was starting to get difficult and disappointing ever since

[@erikescobar6616]

There’s nothing he could’ve done there we would’ve respected. Joining that team ruined our perception of him

[@MikeBeltMikeBelt]

Going to GS WAS the start of the hate. Weakest sports move in history.

[@MJJ200]

@@MikeBeltMikeBelt I know what you mean but I think the only way he could have gotten some respect back was staying in GS for the rest of his career because it would be harder to hate on him if he ended up being the best GSW ever because people would use that to say he made the right decision going there

[@MJJ200]

@@erikescobar6616 maybe respected was the wrong word I guess I mean he would be less hated on

[@TpolTime]

Yeah he shoulda tried to win 4/5 rings with GSW

[@willyboods5197]

Came to finally hear Bill criticize KD. Very disappointed in his podcasting

[@ChopDaDon]

Idk why we still treat old guys like they supposed to win every year… this is usually how things go when you reach 34+

[@Jasonwilliams21]

Kd is another example of why we should not rank guys all time before they retire. I remember after 18 people had him top 10. If he retired today i don't know if he could be argued top 10

[@fluffybunny364]

Bill so clearly has wanted to find any possible reason to put KD higher than Lebron in his all-mighty pantheon

[@edgardoMurnia]

He has NO ARGUMENT. lol Unless you count those pathetic titles. And even then, how is he better than Shaq; Kobe; Duncan; LeBron; MJ; Curry; Magic; Bird; Hakeem; Wilt?

[@chopin1975-tq3gx]

i feel like we are all being gaslit constantly.... he went to a team that won 73 games; how the fuck is this not being talked about constantly haha

[@michaelturley3457]

Are you out of your mind? That’s all that people talk about.

[@chopin1975-tq3gx]

@@michaelturley3457 when?

[@Andrew034]

@@michaelturley3457 Not Bill. Just last year he did a podcast where he mentioned that the criticism on the Warriors move wasn't fair because they didn't win the title in '16. He coincidentally forgot to mention that was the 73-win team that had already won in '15.

[@bradleystraley6165]

Durant should be HOF for all the failed "super teams" he's been central to alone

[@Tarquin2718]

Just say it. KD is not a leader. That is the problem. Curry accommodated him and that is alright. He should never have left GSW.

[@MikeM-np4od]

Irony is he would have probably been more fondly remembered if he stayed in Oakland/San Francisco. Yeah Steph would have always been the favorite son, but if KD won 1 or 2 more titles in GS, 1 or 2 more FMVPs, history would have cut him a little slack on joining the Warriors because winning does that especially if he stayed. He'd have a statue outside of Chase, it would be next to Steph's, but he'd have one. Now dude gets clowned not just for joining the Warriors, but two failed super teams, Steph winning before and after him, and SGA might do something in the next few years that he never could in OKC. That would be the basketball Gods just having a great time at KD's expense if SGA wins a title in OKC. Especially if KD is still playing.

[@chase_saddy]

That’s silly hindsight and 1 more wouldn’t have done shit for legacy.

[@bjensen]

KD was not the best player in 2018. He scored a bunch without getting doubled because he played with an MVP, one of the greatest shooters of all time, on an all time great team. I get that taking a shot at LeBron is mandatory, but let's be real here. Only an insane person would think KD could have done what LeBron did in the 2018 playoffs. KD had absolutely 0 playmaking responsibilities and only had to score on single coverage. Steph and LeBron both had to do much more. LeBron also had one of the the best playoff games of all time in game 1 against them in 2018.

[@openmike4559]

Remember those dagger 3s from the same spot from Kevin Durant in lebrons eye? Those were for two different championship runs. Lebron has more choke jobs than clutch shots, it’s pathetic.

[@edgardoMurnia]

He wasn't even the best player on his own team

[@edgardoMurnia]

@@openmike4559 What lol. You are making no sense. Go back to your room, take the pills, sleep. Rest

[@trancebruh3231]

Bill keeps comparing every disappointing top-heavy “super team” to the 2010-11 Heat. That team would have won the title if not for LeBron turning in the worst performances of his life in the Finals. If he plays even mediocre in that series, they win it all. These top-heavy teams that lose in the first or second round are not the same lol

[@coopertodd28]

The 2011 Mavs don’t get enough respect for how there roster built the rest of the decade.

[@openmike4559]

Lmao. Man y’all so dumb.

[@Tyrantula1]

Never at any point was he “unequivocally the best player in the world.”

[@SomeChink]

facts it’s never happened

[@edgardoMurnia]

There is bias and hate , and then there is Bill Simmons vs LeBron James lol

[@brianhurley8617]

Father Time always wins. Sorry for the cliche, but it fits here.

[@seanpidduck]

There has never been a single day when KD was the best player in the world It was Lebron for a decade, then it was Joker 2018 bron was literally the best player ever and then he won again in 2020

[@micahpg3407]

@@poorchris PLEASE provide some evidence? The 2019 playoffs when Lebron was hurt was the only playoff run I felt that, and then he tore his achilles

[@MrOneanddone91]

You ain’t lying. As a proud Kobe-Stan 2018 LeBron turned me from a hater to a true believer in his GOAT argument. I have never seen anything like it before or since.

[@seanpidduck]

@@poorchris Bron went to the finals every single year till 2019 lmao

[@MikeBeltMikeBelt]

@@poorchris KD burner account spotted.

[@openmike4559]

Just wow. So dumb.

[@NateArchibaldWithTheFro]

I think he’s a generational talent, but historically there’s a couple forwards I would take over him who never even won a ring

[@60zeller]

He is making 50 million a year. Let's not feel to bad for the guy

[@drewbreezy5854]

I'm not sure it will impact his legacy at all. He will always be viewed as a Hooper's hooper. But no one should view him as some strategic player maximizing his career. He hasn't and he won't going forward. He has played with basically all of the greatest and has 2 rings...that says it all. But I don't remember anyone ever saying he is a greater player than Bron. It went Shaq to Kobe to Bron to Curry to now...KD was not in that imo.

[@edgardoMurnia]

pretty much 100% correct But those "know ball" idiots do make the argument for KD and Kyrie as better than they actually are

[@webera02]

Suns get swept. Or Timberwolves sweep Suns. National media can’t get head around Wolves. It can’t be they were 1 seed most of the season and dominated Suns. Has to be Suns are going to win prior to series. Bad match up for Wolves, wolves are fake and will get exposed. Then after Suns bad mix they lost the series. How about Wolves prove they should have been 1 seed. Rudy trade was genius. This big lineup changing the NBA trend.

[@josh0766]

KD just isn’t the same anymore. He’s more of a 2 now. In order for the Suns to be successful, Devin Booker has to be that guy now, he’s in his prime. I was very surprised people still thought that high of him now, I thought even last year KD took a small step back.

[@temporalsoliton]

The suns had a disappointing season and they don't really have a path. On the flip side and on a purely on court perspective, has anyone performed as close to their pre Achilles tear numbers as KD?

[@razkable]

At this point kd is the most overrated top 15 player because he gets top 12 status when he is closer to 15 than 11...he is like 14...

[@dparks2856]

Top 25

[@will_m554]

Did y’all not watch him this series lol, how many top 10 guys could put up the stats KD did at age 35 😂

[@dparks2856]

@@will_m554 Not good enough

[@johnnycash8567]

Closer to 20 than 15 if we honest

[@johnnycash8567]

@@will_m554u giving him credit for his age, he didn’t effect the game last night, just put up a good stat line. Games 2 and 3 he did nothing and game one he was efficient but he’s not really impacting the game, when ant decided to take over last night and game 1 KD had no answer

[@chrisg2214]

He's gonna be remembered for joining GS to win a championship. His career is a disappointment. It also sucks how he never takes responsibility for anything.

[@robertriteman3227]

At the end of the day he will be seen as a very good to great player but not in the top 5 which may have occurred if he had stayed with the Warriors . Indeed, he is likely to fall out of the top 10 within the a few years. He will never be viewed in the same light as guys like Duncan, Bird, Kobe, ....

[@213areacode83]

bill simmons still thinks kevin durant was the best player in the nba in 2019...lol

[@razkable]

He was...lebron was out the playoffs and kd was killing it

[@Howdidhenotseeme]

@@razkable Kawhi was and then lebron came back in 2020 and recaptured the title as best player. KD's team went on to beat the rockets and almost win the finals with him on the bench hurt lmfao

[@razkable]

​@@Howdidhenotseemekawhi was not better in 2019 until the finals when KD was out

[@shorewall]

@@Howdidhenotseeme Lebron wasn't the best player in 2020. AD played better than him.

[@Howdidhenotseeme]

@@shorewall Lebron finished 2nd in MVP and won finals mvp.

[@brians7727]

Worst...front...office...EVER.

[@AndreInThe416]

Best players make their teammates better. KD is just a scorer at this stage. Open your eyes.

[@WeMissDimebag]

He has only ever been a scorer. And the past few years he has only scored one way: mid range ISO’s. Doesn’t generate 3’s, doesn’t apply pressure on the rim. I get he’s incredible at it but it’s the lowest value type of scoring. Hasn’t amounted to winning, or even really dominating games.

[@edgardoMurnia]

Kd never made any teammate better.

[@BigginsInAmerica]

How can you be considered one of the 10 or 12 best players in the world when all you do is lose in the first round of the playoffs every year? Why is Bill Simmons the biggest bootlicker in history?

[@zechariahzenith8762]

Simple solution: trade Booker if Suns wants to win a championship. Only time people remember about Booker is he such an arrogant bully who only likes to fight. But scared against Westbrook or Beverley.

[@KK-pm7ud]

Grayson Allen was a way better pick up than Bradley Beal

[@porkmilk8984]

KD is in the comments using a sock puppets

[@EnthusiasticLock-hn4qp]

Durant has been my favorite player the last decade plus. I know he isn’t the best player but if I made a player on a game, that player would be Durant. I really think the nets decision hurt his legacy but I get the gamble he took based on where his career was. Years from now when we look back I hope we remember him in an okc jersey and not a suns or nets jersey

[@michaelturley3457]

I think there is crazy revisionist history on that move. He was getting nothing but hate with the Warriors of course he would leave when he knows he’s getting no respect. His only mistake was choosing Kyrie to team with, who’s a basket case.

[@shorewall]

KD could never win as a number 1. He is not a leader. He cannot lead his team through adversity.

[@michaelturley3457]

@@shorewall weird Steph’s coach said KD was their best player. Have fun coping with that reality 😂 but you know more about the warriors and basketball than Steve Kerr the 9 time champ, right?

[@zain4070]

Durant’s never been the best player in the world. Mfer was playing with Steph and Klay and benfitted from gravity. He’s never been better than Lebron

[@edgardoMurnia]

You have to be real shamless to say he was "unequivocally" the best player in the world .... lol. It wasn't even close

[@openmike4559]

I think the media is forced to boot lick for Lebron.

[@edgardoMurnia]

What media... exactly?

[@razkable]

Shout out to the t wolves for winning a playoff series for the first time since mvp kg lebron was rookie of the year and spo was an assistant coach carlisle was coaching indiana seattle sonics still had a team charlotte did not at the time ty lue was playing for the hawks or magic cp3 was a senior in high schoo brendan malone mike's father was still an assistant coach and alive doc rivers got fired as magic coach who knows where frank vogel was j kidd was a new jersey net remember them not brooklyn yet thibs was an assistant same for mike brown billy donovan was at florida still darvin ham was still playing with the eventual champ pistons with billups plus bickerstaff dad was still a coach presti was with the spurs and both ime and willie were in the nba...what the hell has happened in that time lol

[@thomascrowniii1693]

Here's a novel idea, how about we don't talk about a players legacy until the guy is done playing?

[@yaroslav64]

Weird how they barely mention the team around him. That team is built like shit for the modern NBA. KD can still be the best player on an nba finals team but that team fits like fucking junk.

[@Howdidhenotseeme]

Hes made 1 finals outside of GS but a 35 year old Kd can be that? Thats BS

[@shorewall]

The team is junk because they had to trade for him!

[@georgedaniel8823]

People need to remember that he went through a major injury.

[@jdankerdake]

Not much. He’s almost 36 and past the point of high expectations in terms of team success. KD will always have the Trump presidency.

[@terrysdavis]

So this sweep hurts Durant but Fox blowing curry out of the water in the play-in doesn’t effect curry’s legacy? Durant played well Minnesota is just a better team in most ways.

[@dparks2856]

Curry gor chips without KD

[@shorewall]

People have seen the whole GS team falling down around Curry.

[@daveleeuelman5084]

KD is washed up 🆙 and Lebron took on the role to win Lakers game 4! People love hating on Lebron because they know he is the BEST PLAYER IN LAST 20 years! HATERS

[@MrOneanddone91]

Nope

[@TP-hk1tb]

Bill is a narcissist.

[@devondivine1083]

wtf is this, elevator music type of pod....I'm tryna listen and jus keep zoning out. #BORING

[@SomeChink]

KD’s contract is starting to becoming one of the worst in the NBA He just doesn’t really impact the game at all high level

[@Hohmygodfuckme]

The NBA is being ruined by players like KD crying to go to a new team and demanding the GM bring in the players he wants and when the team doesn’t win the franchise is screwed for years. Player empowerment ruined the NBA

[@kennethko1534]

He better hope the Clips or Mavs don't win it all. If so, it'll destroy his legacy. With the Mavs, it means Kyrie will join Steph in having won BOTH BEFORE and AFTER playing with him or with the Clippers, it means that all 3 of his OKC max contract teammates (Russ, Harden and Ibaka) will have won with Kawhi. It'll make Kawhi the clear cut #3 best player of this generation and it'll make us question how good of a winner KD is as a teammate.