S9 Noise - Earthing

The Amateur Radio UK channel is run by UK radio amateur M0GQC (James). As the channel name would suggest, the channel focuses primarily on amateur radio within the UK!!!

[@dvscotlandphoenixnetwork]

Fantastic video many thanks for sharing this info

[@MattBrunton1965]

Good to see your approach, and thanks for uploading the results even if they weren't what you were hoping for. 73s, Matt M7GKK

[@nigelbrooks6756]

Good video, I've always had a low noise level until a week ago, it's driving me mad, I've switched off mains and tried a 897 through internal battery and absolutely no difference, my mission begins

[@AmateurRadioUK]

Sorry to hear that. Sounds like a bit of direction finding may be in order! Best of luck, I'd be interested to know how you get on.

[@nigelbrooks6756]

@@AmateurRadioUK I decided to take my 897 and 4m dipole for a walk, outside my house is a telephone pole with drop wires going to 5 or 6 houses there is, also a green box out side I have had this confirmed to be gfast, when I get near them the drop wires and green box the noise goes up massively, I have reported this to rsgb and ofcom who I now have to provide a 7 day log too, so will see, keep up the good vids and I hope you sort out your noise issues too, it's a great hobby but this doesn't make it easy, cheers

[@paulw1113]

Great video James. I really like the way you show it and tell it ‘as it is’, even if it’s not a success! I’m really enjoying you sharing your adventures - I look forward to Saturday evening when I sit back with a beer watching your channel. Keep it up mate. I have S7 noise on 20m but only in the evening! I can’t wait to see how you get on with your mag loop - I tried building one out of 15mm copper pipe with some success, but the ‘trombone capacitor’ I made wasn’t so great. I have better results with a simple whip in the evenings attached directly to my Xiegu G90 QRP radio.. so can’t wait to be able to take it out again once this lockdown is ended. 73’s M7WHI (Paul)

[@AmateurRadioUK]

Thanks for the support. As you rightly said I don't tend to edit much out & I show the results even if it goes wrong! Realistically there are a number of people with the same noise problems as me who are probably going to try some of the things that I do. I don't like to dress things up or sensationalise things. I like to keep it honest & realistic. The mag-loop project is working quite well. There'll be video on that soon. I use a wideband RX only loop rather than a tuned loop. A tuned loop (I have an MFJ-1788 which I had up for a while) picked up a fair bit of noise. A non-resonant loop seems to handle the noise better. I've made the RX only loop out of 15mm pipe & used a commercial loop amplifier unit from Cross Country Wireless.

[@michsmi8297]

Hi James, very interesting! I have a similar problem in that I have a long coax run through the house to the radio on the top floor , about 40 ft. The only way I can use any sort of ground in the house would be by utilising radiator pipes or the mains third wire which I understand to be incorrect.

[@AmateurRadioUK]

Yep, it's a tricky one. I'm no expert on grounding but I've been doing a bit of reading up on this and am in the process of re-vamping my ground system. The case of your power supply (assuming that you are using mains power & not battery) should be connected through the earth pin in the mains plug as a safety measure to prevent electric shocks if a fault occurs. This will most likely be connected to the negative connection of the 12v output to your radio/equipment. If you use a multi-meter to test continuity, you should have continuity between the case of your radio & the earth in the mains. In that respect, technically your system is bonded to the mains earth. I've heard some worrying comments from people (who should really know better) suggesting that you should defeat this to isolate the 12v (& therefore your radio) from the mains earth.......DO NOT DO THIS!!! In terms of using the radiator pipes for earthing, the jury is out on this one as far as I am concerned.........It is very old advice which used to get thrown around a lot because houses were traditionally built with copper radiator pipes which were bonded to the mains earth & were usually connected to the cold water supply which comes into the house through the ground. In many modern houses the pipes are now PVC, which is obviously not a good conductor & no good for grounding! The advice in the ARRL book (aimed at the American market) is to bond to the main earth rod by the meter outside your house........Unfortunately in the UK things are slightly different as the electricity meter is inside the house & the earth seems to go into the ground by the meter. Given the location of my shack, running an earth wire to the meter just isn't practical. However, my house does have copper pipes which provides a VERY low resistance to the mains earth. Bonding to this did reduce my noise level by around an S-point. There will be people who will cringe when reading this but it worked for me. Take a look at this link, specifically towards the end where it talks about the "RF Suppressor Ground System", which might be helpful to you if you have a long run to the earth rod:- helpdesk.flexradio.com/hc/en-us/articles/204779159-Grounding-Systems-in-the-Ham-Shack-Paradigms-Facts-and-Fallacies I plan to do a video on this at some point but that probably won't go out for at least another month or two.

[@michsmi8297]

@@AmateurRadioUK Hi James, thank you for that very interesting reply. I read the article and the last example is exacly my problem. The use of a counterpoise would not be practicle inside the house (if I understand it correctly) which leaves the option of using a coax and a appropriate capacitor. Ive not used this method before but given that this seems to be the only reasonable option I will try it out. I also have copper radiator pipes, but the electriciy feed is via overhead cables with only live and return. The gound is taken from utility piping comming in from the street. I also have copper rods at the front and back of the house. which were put in when it was built as far as I can see. The posibility of a good ground is available, its just the length of cable needed to get it is the problem. The option of the last example for RF suppresion seems to give the answer. It will be interesting to see you next video on this!

[@ghettotown4777]

I feel for ya man. I live in a 3rd story apartment and have a noise issue as well. Also like you been tackling the problem through trial and error, error, error, error and a little more error. Right now im scoping out spots where i can covertly place a ground rod and run cable to it. I have the artificial ground box thing by MFJ ill throw in line. Hopefully i'll get some positive results.

[@AmateurRadioUK]

Yep, lots of trial and error. Do you have access to the roof? I found that an RX only magnetic loop (with a switch to change over to your TX antenna) worked quite well for me when I mounted it on a 12m mast well above the roofline. If you can get a mag loop (maybe an MFJ) on the roof, that might work well. As a cheaper option, I bought an amplifier box from "Cross Country Wireless" here in the UK & made a loop out of copper pipe (could also use wire for something more discreet and less noticeable).

[@vdleun77]

Too bad it didn't work, but interesting anyways. I'm curious how you will use the listening antenna, so will be sure to watch the coming videos. Keep up the good work! 73s Alexander

[@markg6jvy135]

Annoying that it made no difference...but you’ve still got lots to try yet 👍👏👏

[@AmateurRadioUK]

I've still got a few ideas up my sleeve. The biggest challenge is going to be tackling the VDSL (which is where I think most of my problems are coming from). I've already had a bit of a row on the phone with my ISP. I think we are heading towards a showdown!!!

[@brian.7966]

at least you have tried to sort the problem out it's the only way well done, I have much the same setup as you, I am always trying to get it perfect but of course, that's not going to happen but you have to try. I made up the main filter too, it did not seem to make any difference but you have to try these things.

[@AmateurRadioUK]

It's an ongoing battle for hams in built up areas. Like you, I also tried the mains filter & found that it didn't make much difference.

[@williamgrocott8925]

Keep trying James 👍🏻. Some things I tried that you might want to consider. Is this noise rf coming through the antenna feed(s) or conducted coming down the power line? I ran my radio on a battery to see if it made a difference- in my case it did so I put in a mains filter. I also unscrewed the shell of my PL259 at the rig: I saw little difference bet the screen being connected and not, if there was a difference you might want to try a CMC or use a isolating txfmr. I’ll be watching to see how you get on. You’re always learning in this hobby. Keep safe my friend and keep up the great work. 73, de Will, M0LGW

[@AmateurRadioUK]

Hi Will, all good suggestions but unfortunately I don't think any of those will help (I've tried all of them at some point). I'm fairly now fairly certain that it's VDSL interference (the videos are about 2 weeks behind where I'm actually up to with this). More videos on this over the coming weeks.

[@jerryevans6320]

Where did you get your mains filter from William?

[@AmateurRadioUK]

Search for "whole shack mains filter" for more information on that one. Specifically have a look at:- gm3sek.com/2019/10/11/clean-up-your-shack-2019/ That's the filter which I have built (video coming out on that sometime over the next few weeks). Farnell or Mouser seem to be the main sources her in the UK. Maybe also available from CPC Electronics (which I seem to remember being more expensive)?

[@williamgrocott8925]

@@jerryevans6320 Hi Jerry. I made a filter designed by Ian White, GM3SEK. He presented this to the RSGB. Have a search for GM3SEK Clean Up Your Shack. Ian has a great blog and explains how it works. I also did a presentation to Coventry Amateur Radio Society on my build of Ian’s filter. Take a look at Coventry Amateur Radio Society and look for my video (old callsign 2E0WCJ). I show the build and BoM and the difference it made to my station 👍🏻👍🏻

[@paulm0hpd319]

Check out rsgb video ,clean up your shack