What RUINED Twelve Forever? (How A Creep DESTROYED Her Own Show)

[@Saberspark]

Go to buyraycon.com/saberspark for 20% off your order, plus free shipping! Brought to you by Raycon! But what do you all think of Twelve Forever? Did you like the show? Do you think it was fair what happened to it?

[@Parasite_Mushroom]

I loved this so much the buttwhich was my favourite charcter

[@BluffsCastle]

I liked the show, but it went through so much bad luck

[@kieranstark7213]

Next, do “What RUINED Schneider’s Bakery (HOW A PEDOPHILE RUINED HIS OWN SHOWS… AND THE LIVES OF TEENAGERS… ESPECIALLY ALEXIA AND JENNETTE)

[@Keyote]

H I. I can’t afford Raycon : , )

[@bloodyidk]

Hide way hide way form me

[@ThePigKnight]

Writing a 2 page self report about you stalking a child is not a joke.

[@unplaceholder]

it's not stalking, girls follow hot guys around all the time

[@nexus-sentinel252]

​@@unplaceholder But a 24 years old woman stalking underage kids? Wtf bro

[@yassinefarah2423]

​@@unplaceholdersay that again when you get stalked by someone much older than you.

[@ThePigKnight]

@@unplaceholder H U H

[@LonelyGamer4]

@@unplaceholderIf you’re gonna be a troll, at least be a funny one

[@louiswendlander9083]

"I'm a different person now" *she proceeds to sexually harass people working on her show* 🤦‍♂

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

A pedo in charge of a woke @$$ show? Gee, what a surprise!!!

[@Optimegatrongodzilla]

@louisewedlander9083 To be fair, those are just accusations with no proof behind them. She very well could be innocent.

[@istolejahresshipandilldoit3499]

She’s totally a different person now… in a bad way

[@tyrant-den884]

"I'm a different person now, now I have power."

[@CanyonCoyote]

@@Optimegatrongodzilla Well, whether or not she actually sexually harassed her employees, she'll never redeem herself from her hebephilia

[@IllSentiment]

"If I had a nickel every time a creator of kids' content turned out to be a creep, I'd have a lot of nickles. Which shouldn't be the case, and should happen a lot less."

[@daniapfel2825]

Me i know 5 creeps so for me i’d 5 nickels Precision: Julia Vickerman Chris Savino Skyler Page John Krifaulski Dan Schneider PS: I think Chris and Skyler are redeemed themselves but that not delete their awful actions and i understand the persons which they hurted them don’t want forgive them

[@user-IloveFood33]

Bro you'd be RICH 💀💀

[@numbersstationsarchive194]

Nickel*

[@mollusckscramp4124]

Aww.. this reference usually makes me laugh but made me sad this time 😔

[@Olflix]

"should happen a lot less" my brother in Christ it shouldn't even happen at all

[@aerodynamiccow3597]

I still cant get over a netflix production company being named "The Cartel"

[@janaiyarowzee9800]

Netflix and chill…………🤢

[@WWNbroadcasts]

“Say you don’t like big mouth again we will make you bite the curb” typa production company

[@RetiredAccount3737]

​@@WWNbroadcastsNetflix on their way to do unspeakable things to people who dislikes Big Mouth

[@axelcordova8262]

That's like opening up an Italian restaurant and naming 'Cosa Nostra'.

[@dimwarlock]

Cartel and Cártel are different words in spanish, the former means "poster" or "sign" while the latter means exactly what you're thinking. This is just so you think about what probably happened, because cultural and social are very important when choosing names.

[@plutonium09]

“I made dumb jokes a decade ago” bro you followed a teen around the carnival and wrote about his body that’s not a joke 😭

[@DebbieDickens]

The fact that she brushed off stalker/predator behavior as 'dumb jokes' is concerning and tells me she hasn't really matured as much as she claims, I hope to god she seeks help/has been seeking help.

[@carolyns4519]

​@@thehacker4012At standup shows, theres kind of an expectation that even the true stories a comedian tells are exaggerated for comedy. She wasn't telling jokes to an audience, she posted to her personal blog (a place where the expectation is that these stories are true, since a blog is basically an electronic diary) about stalking a kid and wanting to take pictures of him, things that do happen in real life. She saw nothing wrong with letting people know that this is what she does when she's not cartooning.

[@XxFloofyxX]

Like bruh stalking a minor isnt a joke its a mental illness please go awayyyyy

[@Plsrateeight]

​@@Chillipowwwyeah that's bull crap I think you let this little soy enter your stupid mind

[@thehacker4012]

@@Chillipowww Nobody likes stand-up comedians? That is your argument?

[@TomSig]

I bet the executives at Cartoon Network looked at everything that went down with Julia Vickerman and thought “Man, we really dodged a bullet rejecting that show, didn’t we?”

[@AliasEliahus]

I mean they hired a known smut artist that made parodies of cn shows to do art for ok ko. I feel they know full well who they're hiring

[@kage6613]

@@AliasEliahus thought you were gonna say Steven Universe then with the OK KO misdirect nice

[@AliasEliahus]

@@kage6613 lol I actually forgot about that but yeah. I think these network execs could care less what skeletons are in your closet as long as you're quiet about it and make them a profit.

[@TheThing4444]

The production of Calarence happened.

[@queenzoroark]

​@@TheThing4444Its creator got axed quickly

[@chickennuggetpaw]

What is it with people that make animated shows and sexual misconduct allegations?? Why can’t they just keep their hands to themselves?

[@valenciageode25]

They do create little people they control.

[@daskampffredchen]

The Target audience. That is also why so many pervs go into teaching

[@slimebunny5700]

Especially shows for kids or young audiences. I don't like this pattern but it makes sense to appeal to the audience you want to take advantage of.

[@Cantimule]

It happens in every industry. You just hear about it more from the media industries because of the famous names and brands associated with them. Also, I suspect it's further exacerbated by the amount of control creators are given so as not to stifle their creative visions (in relation to non-media companies where usually far more stringent rules, regulations and processes are in place). Just a guess, though. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[@Mereologist]

People who want to touch children naturally are drawn to industries where they will have access to children. Teachers, Disneyland, daycares, animators for childrens' shows. OF COURSE that's where they want to be.

[@Lovinia1]

14:20 A show that did this trope well was, believe it or not, “Ed, edd n eddy”. We don’t need to be TOLD that double dees parents are busy because it’s demonstrated by the use of simple sticky notes. Even in a show where the parents never appear, we still feel the absence. The other characters mention that they’ve been grounded or that their parents are out for the night. Edd just does endless, overly complicated tasks listed on sticky notes, only receives affection through writing, and seems to parent himself.

[@KittyxKult]

Also explains fully why double d is the “brainiac” of the group (for a group that does really dumb stuff all the time). He has been forced to “grow up” faster than his peers and submit to viewing his worth through the lens of productivity and scholarship. He has been left alone to entertain himself with learning, as he seeks acknowledgement from parental figures who arent present, however because he is left without adult guidance most of the time, he uses his brains to get himself and the group into trouble.

[@Yamshands]

IKR! Love EENE, btw! Honestly, as a huge cartoon-fanatic, examples of other cartoons doing these tropes in 12Forever better were just PILING up in my head as I watched this video. Like, I swear if anyone on the creative team watched As Told by Ginger I think the writing would’ve improved tenfold lmao. Not saying that show didn’t have flaws, but it definitely at least KNEW what it wanted to do and the puberty-speak was actually pretty good. Not to mention that the main family (coincidentally also a mother, daughter, and son) actually match up to the personalities of Reggie’s family amazingly. Just, you know…a million times better haha

[@TheChocolateCheetox]

Isn't there some evidence that DD's parents aren't even real and he writes the notes himself while zonked from carbon monoxide poisoning?

[@Lovinia1]

@@TheChocolateCheetox that’s a very dark theory that some edgelord made up. There’s no evidence in the show without massively stretching.

[@KittyxKult]

@@TheChocolateCheetox that sounds scientifically impossible. If he was repeatedly getting carbon monoxide poisoning every single day, it would build up in his blood and cause very serious problems, even death. As goofy as he is, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him neurologically, I think he’s just an unsupervised kid who lets his friends get him into trouble.

[@Alex_Mercer_The_PROTOTYPE]

The Butt Witch was honestly the best part of the show than the main character herself. The show had something going there until I heard about the thing with the Creator which was wild to hear. Damn shame.

[@JutinSux]

​@HelpMeplease991 keep crying

[@TheRogueCommand]

Matt Berry gave one heck of a performance

[@mckenzie.latham91]

Yeah, the show itself was really good and had some great moments It wasn't the show that failed, just the creator. One of my favourite episodes was where Riley deals with not having a dad because he left them a long time ago A very powerful scene that showed me how much potential this had. Too bad, one would hope that they could reboot it under someone different at some point maybe.

[@UltimateDragonX9999]

Not mention butt witch is voiced by Matt berry, the same voice actor of bubbles the talking dolphin in the second SpongeBob movie: Sponge out of water.

[@6Shots_ofEspresso]

@@theheroingreen its a bot, it wont listen unfortunately

[@electrobob992]

The one positive to the show being cancelled? The fan favorite character was Butt Witch, The villain, the one who wanted her adventures to end.. So by the show being cancelled, we can just assume she WON and sealed off the world and is partying up a storm.

[@odacova3319]

Now I want to see the grown up wonderland she was talking about 😏

[@Saltboi1823]

​@@odacova3319Butts, boobs, beer, and more.

[@SidVacant69]

​@@odacova3319When you put the kids to sleep

[@AmeliaBradford-i9l]

Was it just me who thought the Butt Witch was kinda hot? (God my bi senses are tingling.....)

[@AmeliaBradford-i9l]

(I'm going down to the Hazbin Hotel now after that)

[@jacearmor5274]

Harassing storyboarders and stalking a minor around a fair are not "jokes." Those are literal crimes!!

[@PoozialianPizzlePee]

Orfay ealray ☠️

[@SuperHGB]

my favorite jokes are fraud and forgery

[@Alex_Barbosa]

Stalking is a joke if it didn't happen. The question is was it a joke or not 🤔

[@MrAnthonyIII]

Creepiest thing about her post is "if only his mom hadn't been there" and how she tried to win his favor giving him free tickets. Typical grooming behavior: isolate the child from his parents or other adults; buy him things and give him gifts to get him to like you and see you as a trusted friend. Please parents protect your sons from creeps like this woman. It's not only girls who need to be protected and not only men who are predators.

[@TheInvisibleCanadia]

Sexual harassment done by women usually isn't taken seriously, so the fact that this even got to court means it must've been bad.

[@na-ky8ou]

A male friend of mine was a victim of sexual harassment by his female coworker. This idiot liked it, and tried to date her; I told him that it was a bad idea from the start, and countless times, but he didn't listen. Guess what happened? She accused him of touching her inappropriately.

[@ookipuki]

​@@na-ky8ou let's say they were both touching eachother etc.. let's say he even did it first! 🤷🏼‍♀️ DOESNT MATTER..... YOU'RE AT WORK........ and? The age matters too!!!! 😡( mental state too lol)

[@tatiana4050]

​​@@ookipuki power dynamic matters too., those in power at work hold whole livelihoods of those they supervise in their hands.

[@NINacide]

Hermesmann v. Seyer, Kansas. 1993. Facts of the case; An adult woman, employed as a babysitter, had sex with and became pregnant by the 12 year old boy she was babysitting. Judge's decision: A 12 year old boy may consent to sex, it was not SA, the woman will not serve any time in prison, and the boy owes the woman child support.

[@OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOq]

@@NINacide I would not even surprised. Still don’t understand the logic and injustice.

[@donovanlocust1106]

12 forever is how the creator prefers her men

[@spencerpetunia8268]

"men"

[@stanleysaturn982]

​@@spencerpetunia8268boys

[@stanleysaturn982]

Fetuses

[@YurinanAcquiline]

😮😮😮

[@supaflycoolguy]

"men" is crazy

[@ScoundrelChestnut]

the casual silly me way she wrote about harassing the child and stalking him, HOPING his guardian wasn't around made my stomach drop. it's beyond sickening.

[@mollusckscramp4124]

Dude. I know the word paedophile gets tossed around a lot these days ranging from sending text messages to following tiktok accounts, but this woman was literally THREATENING TO KIDNAP A CHILD! This is the most textbook definition of a predator I have ever seen, and it's horrifying that she actually worked on a kid's show!!

[@MY_LEG-]

Literally. everything she was absolutely disgusting then she adds “IF ONLY his mom wasn’t there” like what would u have done if she wasn’t…?

[@seantaggart7382]

​​@@mollusckscramp4124 yeah! But it all gets thrown out because WOMAAAAAAANNN!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎆🎆🎇🎆🎇🎆🎆🎇🎆🎇🎇🎆🎆🥳🥳🎆🥳🎇🥳🎉🥳🥳🥳🎆🎇🎉🎆 Im sickened by it

[@indigowendigo8165]

WTF? o.O

[@zombieponcho]

It was really hard to read her posts, they were way more disgusting and disturbing than I expected them to be. Her brushing them off as jokes... There's no joking in there, I'm pretty sure that those were actually her stories about being a predator and her abhorrent fantasies. Idk if it's a joke I don't find it funny at all, I find it concerning.

[@the13throse]

Unfortunately, it's pretty common for sexual abusers/harassers to openly claim to support victims of such. I guess they figure it makes allegations against them harder to believe.

[@A-TALKING-TOASTER]

Especially when they're considered a victim class citizen

[@temptempy1360]

More likely to just be familiar social environment that they tend to drift towards.

[@ANGGELAful]

I'm gonna be honest, the "mom who pressures her teenage daughter to grow up fast but lets her teen boy do whatever without reprimand or consequences" is something that happens really often, it's not something unrealistic that is being depicted

[@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme]

And Misogyny

[@antikommunistischaktion]

@@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme MUH SOGGYKNEES.

[@CalvaryProductions1]

@@elle9602I think of it as like a grass is greener thing. Men and women have their hardships, but I do t think you should believe that all women are oppressed. That’s called victim mentality, and that can ruin things

[@antikommunistischaktion]

@@elle9602 Because society actually cares about you, that's not so much for the boys.

[@apenguininthemist855]

@@elle9602 You know, I wish someone would have told my dad that it was only girls who had heavy/unrealistic expectations put on them. Maybe then I would have been beaten and psychologically abused less as a child.

[@ArthropodJay]

honestly the whole 'doesnt punish one kid but the other' is actually pretty realistic, its called a golden child scapegoat dynamic. Also jude telling her daughter to be more feminine might be projection on her part.

[@aliceros1]

I thought the family dynamic was so real as Iv'e seen this exact thing happen in real like. The daughters are the ones that needs to grow up but the brother gets to do things his way with little expectations. Except that the parents never did change in real life, but at least in the cartoon there would have been potential for growth and understanding from mom and daughter.

[@sketchyjulia]

Wonder if like Judy kinda just “gave up” on Dustin so she just ignores when he’s being an ass and leaves him alone while she’s focuses on Reggie and making her behave better

[@VilliageSquidiot]

​@@sketchyjuliamaybe but I think that's bad on the mom as well. You don't just stop caring about your kid like that. Their brains are soup, on some level, even the teenagers don't know any better. But I also don't think the mom gave up on her son. I think it's a double standard thing. Why do I know? Grew up as a girl. Mothers and grandmother's are really harsh about the feminine things because they grew up in worlds where they had to be or they had no worth. Did you know women couldn't open their own bank accounts or have credit until the 70's/80's. I'm not saying what they're doing is right or okay. I think it's generational trauma of being made to be worth less the less feminine you are.

[@VilliageSquidiot]

​@@sketchyjuliaI might also be speaking out of my ass, it IS 2am(except for the bank account and credit thing, that is very real)

[@gabrielelder7301]

​@@VilliageSquidiotyour right if a woman didn't have their father or husband co-sign on the account they couldn't open one but some states allowed it earlier like Washington State where that law was gotten rid of in the 50's or 60's because of population decline from WWII and the Korean war.

[@mythcat1273]

Imagine being a fully grown woman following teenagers around carnivals like a 12 year old girl who just saw her crush at the grocery store

[@unplaceholder]

that's not a bad thing, sure it might be a bit creepy but people follow attractive people around all the time

[@mythcat1273]

@hibiscux064 yeah but she was doing that to a TEENAGER

[@mythcat1273]

@@unplaceholder as a GROWN WOMAN

[@TalmoTheSell]

⁠@@unplaceholdera grown woman following a 12 year old girl isn’t wrong?

[@unplaceholder]

@@mythcat1273 his age doesn't matter

[@Kimo_Neko]

Ngl I relate to the mother forcing her child to be feminine thing. When I was a kid I was a tomboy that wore minecraft shirts, my mom yelled at me for not wearing booty shorts and tank tops. I just didn't like showing my skin cause I knew the world was full of creeps and I was like 13. As I got older I dressed more feminine but in pastel dresses and pink outfits that get me mistake for strawberry short cake. My mom still wasn't happy and even said to my alt goth friend "I wish you were my daughter instead" as a "joke." today I am now comfortable with wearing more mature feminine clothing but I wish I was given the time I needed instead of being rejected by everyone. Luckily I was a rebel so I gave myself that time

[@Cobra-yo7fx]

Do not talk to your mom forever.

[@pensandshakers]

...She had a problem with you being a tomboy and liked your goth friend? That's really weird. Honestly, that whole thing sounds weird. Your mom wants you to sexualize yourself? That's weird. Wear all the minecraft shirts you want.

[@Darkclowd]

​@@Cobra-yo7fx well I don't know if they need to go THAT far, but the mom was certainly in the wrong. They wouldn't have had/needed a rebellious phase if they had just been able to learn how they wanted to express themselves over time.

[@rickydiscord7671]

"be a sex simple. not a girl that has commonsense with her body." what type of logic does your mom think that is for girls? you have a right to stand your ground in a young age. and I'm fine with girls and women dress up whatever they want. but showing off alot of skin in a young age and even freaking 5 year old girls. really does make you think there's something wrong with a parent that's letting minors running around showing 60% or more of there skins. like that one "mother" making "sexy model" photos of her small minor girl and really thinks there wont be any pedos or creeps in the comments of her sexy child. >.> and she's still doing it to this day.

[@tpfoxCastro]

Clothes to short? Get fucked. Clothes to long? Get fucked. To feminine? Get fucked. To masculine? Get fucked. Guess my only option is become a biblically accurate angel!

[@DebbieDickens]

Much like Ren and Stimpy, this show is kind of a fascinating dive into its creator's mind. That being Reggie feeling more of a reflection of its creator, Julia, than she probably realizes: immature, selfish, always wanting to be the center of attention, barely taking accountability for her actions, and taking the cancellation into account...will never internally grow up.

[@NoahGooder]

when it comes to ren and stimpy i always thought it was made by somone who gave a child too much sugar and then took notes.

[@shaneharrisnj3484]

This show was good and it had a great "coming of age" storyline and Kelsey Abbott was perfect as Reggie, as they both (plus the creator, who was besties with Kelsey since childhood) were from the rapidly growing state of Iowa (shoutout to stock car racing legend Mike Garvey and WWE star Seth Rollins, both native Hawkeyes)... Shame that this show was banished because of the creator's actions (and Netflix's carelessness in serialized Animation outside of Hilda at the time.)

[@Skycrusher]

@@shaneharrisnj3484 Shame the show was cancelled, not shame that the creator was a horrible p3dophillie? You sound like a monster.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

A pedo in charge of a woke @$$ show? Gee, what a surprise!!!

[@I_SWEAR_IM_NOT_LYING]

I genuinely think the creator is messed up in the brain, and tried to make a self insert cartoon, only to make this. A show about never growing up, made by a person who never grew up.

[@wolfkit2826]

I’m honestly glad Saber addressed how creepy a lot of the inhabitants of Endless were. Idk if it’s because I knew about Julia when I watched the show, but so many of the Endless characters seemed… juvenile, but not in a childlike or innocent way. More like a creep or someone who wants to appeal to a child for nefarious reasons. People say Reggie could be a self insert of Julia, but I think the inhabitants are probably more like her given how she acts and has admitted to acting.

[@torytellstales]

Yeah.....one of the characters is a guy with literally no pants, the one character opens up his "front compartment" to bestow to the main girl a "blown up gift", and the whole breathing camera thing and swallow things imaginary......... It feels less like "entering the world of peer childhood bliss and imagination wonderland" and more like exploring someone's inner dark warped thoughts and erotic fantasies Art really represents a creator's inner dark secrets, doesn't it?

[@ctdaniels7049]

I refer to this as "Hair follicle theory." When an author makes something, it's like plucking out a hair. All their surface ideas go into the work (the hair bit), but the root always comes with it (the author's personal thoughts--for better or worse).

[@wolfkit2826]

@@ctdaniels7049 I like this. Can I use that? That’s a great way of explaining it!

[@Xaixiu]

But its a woman doing it tho. I thought that is was okay for a womna to that kind of stuff. No one ever really makes a big deal about it other times

[@torytellstales]

@@Xaixiu People are making a deal about it now, especially since a lot of female teachers have been discovered to be predators and female daycare attendants were found out to be doing unsavory things to kids. Its about time. It was never okay, regardless if its a man OR woman thats creeping on young kids. Adults hitting on adolescents especially is criminal behavioral. The problem for the longest time is our society seems to think only masculinity is evil for some reason. Im glad women predators are finally being called out.

[@MacaldaReye]

I feel like the weird uncomfortable side characters from Endless are an attempt to replicate the absurdism of adventure time’s side characters, but like, completely missing

[@rickanimationsnewchannel]

adventure time did it better

[@dr.altoclef9255]

I assumed it was also meant to hint at some sinister stuff going on beneath the surface, like it looks great on the surface but it’s really predatory.

[@kingalex105x7]

i always took it they were meant to compliment reggie's weirdness since well she presumably created alot of them

[@lizaraVR]

absurd side characters is definitely something that got popularised by the lolrandom nature of adventure time and so many shows tried to cash in on it but completely missing because they rely too heavily on it or they overshoot and make them really creepy instead

[@DebbieDickens]

That's why the execution of this being Reggie's world felt uncovincing to me, it was less like I'm learning more about Reggie as a character and more like I'm seeing a regurgitation of 2010's aburdist driven cartoons.

[@alexneuman600]

*"If only his mom wasn't there."* That woman literally is a danger to any underage boy who ISN'T with a guardian but people decided to not sentence her? Insanity. There's even a decent chance that she already did something horrible and got away with it. Society treats these women like they aren't dangerous and little boys have to pay the price for it. It needs to change.

[@alexneuman600]

@@TheLandUnknown85 ur a pdf file

[@A-TALKING-TOASTER]

Thank God people like her our lowkey racist or else she'd be going after little black boys and immigrant kids

[@ianmitchell5979]

Saying the predatory behavior towards children didn't age well would imply it was ever an appropriate thing to do. I don't think it would've aged well at any time. EDIT: I wouldn't expect multiple people in the replies to be defending/excusing predatory behavior, but I guess the Internet will never run out of creeps.

[@Vesperad0]

Hopefully never, but some people in these comments that have never been here before are coming out the woodworks defending creep ass behavior.

[@AntediluvianRomance]

Maybe some hundreds years ago, when "teenager" was not a thing.

[@Ash_NuggTato]

I think some of us just don't care, like me, we don't care what someone does that we dont know, we don't care, and sometimes its funny, i mean one of my characters is in college but he still flirts with the highschoolers

[@ianmitchell5979]

@@Ash_NuggTato You just added yourself to the list of people who concern me. (And the people who like that comment. You concern me too.)

[@StrawberryCocoaPowder]

@@Ash_NuggTatoThat’s literally predatory but ok

[@databuser4683]

Moral of the story for Twelve Forever: Write a good story that centers around puberty and also making the 12 year old MC be an awful character isn't a good excuse to write a decent child character. and the Moral of the story on the other side: Female predators exist. EDIT: fixed a typo and hi fellas!

[@NoahGooder]

funfact they are also the least prosecuted out of the 2. Parents when dealing with a creepy male coach: either deal with it or get the pitchforks we are going to school Parents when dealing with a creepy female teacher: those dont exist you are just exaggerating.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

A pedo in charge of a woke @$$ show? Gee, what a surprise!!!

[@marlom7882]

I would have literally bet my functioning liver being ripped out of my body rn over me seeing people admit female predators existed ever in my life

[@ByTheStorm]

@@NoahGooderAlso doesn’t help how boys are sexualized by society and pressured to lose their virginity. So in some eyes, a boy getting sexually assaulted and or raped by a woman is viewed as them being virile. Luckily? I went to a school that when my first in a series of three eighth grade teachers tried to groom a couple of my closest friends, she was immediately fired. The second one was eccentric but smart and the third? Well? Imagine having the temporary principal in Harry Potter as a teacher. At least the last two weren’t creeps. I had another creepy teacher in high school who literally told me to my face (it was a complicated and messed up time for me) about having feelings for the high school girls. Wasn’t really sure how to really confront something like this as it was just us there. And he had my grades in his hand.

[@ByTheStorm]

@@marlom7882They do admit it, but it’s going to take a while. Especially since even girls have issues with male pedos not being taken seriously.

[@peepysprite]

If you are ever suspicious of someone's behavior regarding children but you can't verify anything, or they're hovering just inside the realm of plausible deniability, just observe the way they interact with adults. They always have a fundamentally warped understanding of consent and constantly push boundaries.

[@susumeyun]

Met someone like that once and it was wild, whenever you tried calling them out they'd flip their shit for daring to say they were wrong for it. Absolutely bonkers mentality

[@cheesepuffsthings]

Yeah. If someone is unable (or unwilling) to grasp something so fundamental as a child's inability to consent, it's sure to show up elsewhere in their lives one way or another.

[@unplaceholder]

youth attracted people are just as normal as everyone else, there is no way to "tell" if someone is attracted to youth

[@cheesepuffsthings]

​@@unplaceholder Strictly speaking there are indeed those who are attracted to children due to a brain chemistry disorder who do not break the law in any manner. They simply live life inflicted with urges and feelings they know cannot be acted on. These folks are merely victims of circumstance. It's when this issue is paired with a moral failing of some sort that it comes to criminality. That is the "tell" so-to-speak we speak of. Something is wrong with these people, and it isn't *just* the attraction to minors.

[@neoqwerty]

@@cheesepuffsthings Those people also have a HELL of a time with power imbalance stuff, they really don't get what power imbalances are or why that is B A D. I had a problem with that too but that was because I'm a certified naive idiot with social interactions who needed to have the ethics behind power imbalances spelled out to me as "having any sort of power, social/financial/intellectual, that makes one of the parties dependent on the other's mercy and left SOL if the party with power/control can vindictively ruin the other party if they ever feel petty about being told 'no'." But I've noticed a lot of MAP and zoo apologists defend themselves in ways that show they do NOT understand they have a power imbalance relative to the kids/animals they claim to love, and like, it's in a different way from domestic abusers who think the power imbalance is a GOOD thing.

[@singingofsilver]

An interesting take for the show would be if Endless turned out to be an indulgence, since it seemingly gives Reggie everything she wants. The action, the adventure, the *enablement.* Her mom tells her off? She runs to Endless. Her friends disagree with her? She runs to Endless. Any sort of problem at all, she would run to Endless. It would explain why nothing changes throughout the show, why every 'lesson' was dragged from scraps, why she never got better, and why she only ever seemed to get worse if anything... It would also be just so damn _facinating._ A fantasy world that fulfils your every desire is a hidden nightmare, as seen in Coraline, but instead of the danger being an outside entity like the Other Mother, _you_ would be the danger. _Reggie_ would be the danger, to herself, to her friends, to her family. If her childishness and her selfishness is being indulged and practically rewarded, she *never* needs to change, because Endless will take her as she is, and the creatures there always mindlessly love her. The world would forever make up artifical 'flaws' and silly fights to distract Reggie from thinking about herself or her problems too hard. What's the problem when you're always the solution? Why bother changing when you're told you're already the best? It's a horror scenario wrapped in candy and fluro. Reggie would need to learn to let go, to actually live, and that problems are just... a part of life, that the world doesn't always go your way. Her friends might need to drag her out forcefully, with Reggie being in too deep, while they also have to grapple with the idea of letting go of Endless. If they don't, then they'll obviously be trapped forever, like in the episode where they stayed there over break. See, now _that_ would be a show with a plot.

[@PippiCat-ti4jd]

How is someone going to write a whole tumblr post about a 14 year olds body stating multiple times that they wouldn't do anything BECAUSE THE MOMS AROUND and insinuating that if she wasn't she'd do something and then try and convince people she's not a predator

[@dragonfire5568]

You see, it’s ok when women do it cause women are special.

[@PippiCat-ti4jd]

Why would you condone creepy, and predatory behavior like that. She took pictures of the boy, followed him around and had ungodly thoughts about him. That's not okay by any stretch of the imagination. And not posting it would definitely not make it any better

[@inundation7591]

​@@PippiCat-ti4jdinnocent until proven guilty sadly until she does post images online or actually kidnap no one can do anything cant be arrested for thought crime.

[@PippiCat-ti4jd]

No one said she should be arrested. I called it disgusting and gross idk how you can sit here and defend someone for openly being a degenerate, and whether its posted online or not those thoughts still are not okay. No there isn't anything anyone can do about someone else's thoughts but there still gross thoughts.

[@PippiCat-ti4jd]

Yeah exactly thats just as gross? Why are you bringing that up? Are you saying lolita hentai is okay too? Most people into anime hate the lolita trope too. Idk what your point is

[@rikunessbaboon]

Stalking and taking pictures of a 14 year old boy is NOT a joke 🤢

[@rikkusruckus]

exactly! and i saw someone in the comments trying to DEFEND her by saying "it's just like how girls follow their crushes around" it was literally a 14 year old boy and she was 25. yuck.

[@AAcetoneslaysz]

@@rikkusruckusreal

[@MachinaOwl]

@@rikkusruckus Tbh this reflects poorly on the person justifying it even if everyone involved was of age lol. I hate when people think teenagers can't do disgusting things because it's absolute bullcrap. There are a bunch of red-flags walking around schools, and people justify it with "well they'll just grow out of it!".

[@fluoroantimonicacid4844]

Pedophile behavior 🤢🤢

[@Bullboy_Adventures]

Her creepy behavior aside, she did one of the biggest mistakes in writing. She mad the main villain more likeable than the main protagonist.

[@glasperle77]

that's just a matter of view. People are all messed up (but it's never disussed) . people tend to like the super bad sociopathic and often abusive "bad guys" or antagonists and hype them and prefer them above the protag because they often have a more reasonable backstory. It's still messed up

[@diktatoralexander88]

I dont think it's one of the "Biggest mistakes", because sometimes that may be an intention. The mistake is where you have a protagonist we're *supposed to root for* but the villian is more likable as a person than said protagonist.

[@TheRealBlazingDiamond]

​@@diktatoralexander88precisely. You can have a super likeable villain, but you have to still want to see the heroes triumph over the villain. Dr. Nefarious works really well like this. He's super hammy and funny, but you still want to see Ratchet and Clank foil his plans of turning all organic life forms, or "squishies", as he calls them, into robots

[@SUTAZZZ]

LMAO REAL

[@Vampire_Bat-]

I don’t think it was a mistake. Having a more likeable villain than a protagonist in a show is entirely possible. It doesn’t make people “messed up“ for liking them. Such as Joker, Bill Cipher, Jasper from SU, Slade from Teen Titans etc.

[@emma_nutella58]

Yep mum picking on daughter and letting son do whatever is true. My own mother did it to me, and when it came to my younger brother she definitely favoured him. We would take turns doing the washing up, but when it was his turn he never did it there were even times when my mum would drag me out of bed or threaten me with consequences if I didn’t do the washing up because my brother has gone to bed.

[@scarletweb2106]

I'm sorry 😢

[@ChaoticQueerSnail]

I get that so much, im the oldest and afab and had the exact same situation

[@Picklesforlife-376]

That is a real bad mother right there😭

[@enegizedadam]

Favoritism is a bitch isn't it

[@A-TALKING-TOASTER]

Well hopefully you're never talking to her ever again she's not worthy of Your Love

[@TCKincaid]

The voice actor for Reggie blocked me on Twitter a couple years ago for addressing the allegations in the workplace after she claimed the pedo posting was just "jokes." She sucks too.

[@HebiHouse]

Ooh oof. Especially since it's not like she's not being paid for after the show.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

Damn

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

It's almost as though she knew. And didn't care.

[@josephtafur]

Oh that's bad

[@mckenzie.latham91]

​​@@nevaehhamilton3493How would Anyone know but the creator about her secret crush/desired fling? Nah you're reaching there.

[@anonymouspotato4899]

Small nitpick, but I think Saberspark may have missed the part: -Endless isn't Reggie's creation, she just claims it is, -Endless seems to slowly corrupt the minds of people who stay there for long periods of time, -And the fact that some of the inhabitants of Endless may be former people who were trapped forever

[@DragonNexus]

Wasn't there also the implication Reggies mom used to go there? IIRC

[@shacharlem4424]

In the pilot it was, in the show, it's not anymore.

[@ilovepengins]

makes butt witch a hero tbh

[@DaltonIzHere]

This reminds me of Bugsnax. If you don’t want spoilers for Bugsnax, don’t click ‘Read More’. This reminds me of Bugsnax, mostly because it has this endlessly happy and colourful wonderland, but holds a horrific secret. In Bugsnax, the secret was that the Bugsnax themselves were a parasite on the world, comprising the entire Snaktooth Island. In Twelve Forever, the ‘secret’ is that the minds and sanity of those who go there get corrupted and destroyed. Both are similar. They lure you into the trap with colourful creatures and worlds, and take the chance to hold your head down into the waters of despair and horror, as your mind and body are degraded into either the source of your grief (Bugsnax) or your primal childish desires (Twelve Forever). Damn, I turned into Shakespeare for a second.

[@UrMentalHealth]

@@DaltonIzHere Maybe that was the point? Villian who represents growing up at first seems evil but then you realize you can't stay a child forever?

[@HarpsiFizz]

I know I should be upset by these stories, but I'm just... so happy that people are actually taking it seriously when an adult woman goes after a minor male. For years, it was seen as "lucky boy, what's the problem?". In fact, very recently, there was a case like this where the boy (15) ended up having to pay his rapist (an adult woman) child support because she got pregnant from the encounter. Like... no, please. The genders of the parties should not matter. Just stick to adults.

[@HebiHouse]

​@@unplaceholdergo be creepy somewhere else.

[@unplaceholder]

@@HebiHouse not harassing someone for being youth attracted isn't creepy it's called not being a bigot

[@HarpsiFizz]

@@unplaceholder I do agree with you there. Saying "so-and-so has a nice face" isn't the same as making a move on the person. I was speaking in the sense of *any* coverage of this sorta thing happening. My comment was kinda over-reactish, I admit. But you know how it is these days- if you don't act like a screaming monkey over the slightest thing, you get accused of "defending literal actual rapists". It makes it so a mature discussion on a serious topic os impossible.

[@HebiHouse]

@@unplaceholder get attracted to adults.

[@HarpsiFizz]

@@HebiHouse Bruh, all they said was "making a comment isn't the same as doing an action". If you say "Brad Pitt is very handsome" that doesn't mean you raped him. If you started talking to him or approached Brad Pitt afterwards, then maybe we start to keep an eye on you because you might try something.

[@Xx_CrazyCookie_xX]

She literally said in the post about the 14-year-old boy “where’s your car so I can follow you home”. Like *uhm*? I am literally speechless. But the fact that she’d even WILLINGLY WRITE ABOUT IT AND ACKNOWLEDGE HOW CREEPY IT WAS? Bro. Come on now.

[@tianamaycry]

Then tagging it with the p word. Just when you thought she couldn't make it worse.

[@nice-qm5jc]

Judy wanting her daughter to be more feminine for no reason is accurate to the mother daughter experience

[@indiji]

I was gonna say the same! I think some of Saber's criticisms in this same vein are just bc he lacks the experience of being a preteen girl. which is. fair, obviously. but yknow.

[@literallyhanii]

@@indijiwhen he was like “the mother never reprimanding the brother makes no sense” I sighed sooo loud man

[@nbkarkat]

i wish he would've thought to talk to like, ONE single woman about his thoughts on the show considering the entire premise was about a young girl growing up and her experiences. kind of fill in information he obviously wouldnt have himself

[@CeaselessWatchersSpecialBoy]

@@nbkarkatfor sure

[@kittyphinex7115]

To be honest, it's not for no reason. It's usually the reason that the mother feels like her daughter is growing up and therefore NEEDS to be more feminine because she's just... At that age. And the mom doesn't need to because she already had that in the past, she already had her "feminine" phase, now she can do what she wants because she's already formed her life, etc. Coming from experience, that's the only real reason that can also be considered not a reason because it's selfish but that's the point. Reggie's mom should've been more selfish. Or like more two faced between her two kids but it's always very shallow. Like her motives should be "because that's how I feel my kids should be" and it not make sense but then be called out. But it isn't which messes up the whole thing and makes it more of a stereotype than an actual commentary on these types of parents

[@SorceressRose]

Julia Ickerman helped work on PPG (2016) and she written for the more infamous episode aka the girls twerking. Yeah... red flags all around.

[@i-like_pear]

Nah💀💀

[@AverageConsumer-uj8sm]

What id PPG?

[@AverageConsumer-uj8sm]

ohh powerpuffgurls

[@dokuganryu1565]

Funny how it all starts connecting once you take a look from afar.

[@gnoot50]

oh yikes.. yea that twerking scene in ppg always made me feel uncomfortable

[@tsuivan6690]

that tumblr post was crazy and disgusting. the way she described that poor kid was awful. one of the worst feelings i have EVER experienced in my whole life is being a child and having adults look at you/think about you that way and being aware. i have been approached at work by strangers and by a coworker. it made me scared, nauseous, and disgusted with my own body. i wanted to hide away forever when i was confronted by possible p@dos or uncomfortable interactions that had some amount of plausible deniability. my deepest sympathies for anyone who has gone through similar experiences, and ESPECIALLY towards young kids going thru puberty that abruptly changes how adults interact with you. it is scary and awful, but there are always other kids and adults in your life who will do everything they can to protect you. talk to your family, your friends, your coworkers, your boss. maybe not everyone you turn to will help, but for every disgusting bystander, theres 10 more people willing to help, i promise. no matter what happens, no matter what you wish you would have done, it is NEVER your fault.

[@camiblack1]

Like I get what you're saying, but the creepier thing is, she wrote that when she was 16, she was a minor creeping on another minor.

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@camiblack1 What do you mean when she was 16?

[@camiblack1]

@LJK401 the post was from 2010 (if you look at it before Saber covered up the year in the timestamp) she's 30 in 2024... so 30-14 equals?

[@tsuivan6690]

@@camiblack1 shes 39 now. she was 26 when she wrote that tumblr post, and i think she mentioned her *fiance* helped her take pics

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@camiblack1 Everything I'm looking up is saying she was born in 1984, which would make her 26 when the incident happened.

[@dorian9769]

26:10 "But what is there to learn? What can we take away from all this?" 🎶 Do not diddle kiiiids It's no good diddling kiiiiids 🎶

[@matthewfranklin2137]

I wouldnt do it with anyone younger than my daughterrrr ,no little kiiiiids, gotta be biiig, older than my wiiife

[@southparkfirefly]

Jesus Christ why can't adults just learn to leave children alone...

[@HellVirus0919]

Fr

[@mariajimenafigueroa233]

Childern: BAD TOUCH! BAD TOUCH! STRANGER DANGER!

[@elijaharroyo4846]

Idk man. It’s only gonna get worse from here

[@smashboy64]

Think of biology. That's why.

[@plutonium09]

@@smashboy64if you can’t control yourself you need help. Biology my ass

[@michaeliv284]

"Didn't age well?!" Not aging well implies it was ok at one point.

[@scrollquill]

That, and it was taboo even at the time she did all that crap. "Didn't age well" doesn't apply here.

[@aidentoons]

That reminds me of the people defending SSSniperwolf telling kids to twerk because it was “normal for that time” pedophilia isn’t normal ever, it’s disgusting.

[@streamerssaymyname]

​@@aidentoons tell that to the Republicans trying to keep child bride loopholes legal in half the US states.

[@42seven]

@@streamerssaymyname that's not about pedophila so much as it's about having a wife you can manipulate

[@VilliageSquidiot]

​@@streamerssaymynameew. You're right but I didn't need to remember that.

[@d0ggits]

no fucking way, i thought this was a classic case of being creepy and disgusting without realizing it or whatever bullshit they usually make up, but SHE TAGGED THE WORD HERSELF WTF???? thats just a whole new level

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

A pedo in charge of a woke @$$ show? Gee, what a surprise!!!

[@GooeySplat]

yeah that's crazy. she's not even a p word lmao

[@GooeySplat]

she just like the teenager world. people are making a fuzz about anything these days

[@Kyumifun]

Yeah, she didn't even tried to hide it. At least she was aware of the problem i guess (yet still didn't tried to fix it and got even worse when she harrassed her coworkers....)

[@Commander_Shepard.]

@@GooeySplat Don't defend a p word.

[@squishyazalea9970]

She should have uploaded a KZbin apology playing a ukulele

[@NoctivagantDiurnal]

Time to board the toxic gossip train

[@highlordlaughterofcanada8685]

Nah, a Tuba Apology. Go out with a bang

[@allenmurallo3730]

I'd rather see another interpretive dance apology video.

[@squishyazalea9970]

@@allenmurallo3730 lmaoo

[@malice4777]

​@@allenmurallo3730choreographed by JoJo Siwa

[@pixxeldust]

As someone who was “that nerdy kid” in earlier years, some real pre-teens absolutely do speak like Esther. I was one of them lol

[@ironically_iconic9848]

I wasn’t one of them but I had a bunch of friends like them LMAO The warrior cat girls were next level

[@ArturGlass.C]

Yeah the way she talked reminded me of a nerdy friend I had lol. Didn't think it was too bad. We were a bit older tho like 13-14 still don't sound super unrealistic tho. When you spend your time reading and such it impacts how you speak. It makes sense. Not judging tho, I was talking like a disney sitcom character...so i had my own thing going on too.

[@billbill6094]

Yeah that point struck me as odd there, I could clearly see what they were doing with that bit, nothing struck me as "chat gpt", that's something I would say as a kid to be subversive.

[@ReverieOfThorns]

I knew a girl like that too actually. I was too quiet to be her, but I probably would have been if I'd been more outgoing.

[@adararelgnel2695]

​@@ironically_iconic9848 HAaaa! I was a warrior cat girl ❤

[@toothpaste_lunchbox8680]

Ngl, the mother-daughter relationship is VERY REALISTIC "Do this cuz I want you to, you won't get it. Also ur brother can do whatever he wants and you don't get to know why either" But then you grow up picking up pieces of things your mom says when she thinks you're not listening, or when you're fighting And you only understand after you leave her house and look at the situation from far away

[@MyEnglishIsWorseThanMyKinks]

So, what is the answer? The one you get after leaving. Why do some mothers behave this way?

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

​@@MyEnglishIsWorseThanMyKinks They're just bullies.

[@MyEnglishIsWorseThanMyKinks]

@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 that doesn't exactly explain why the brother is allowed to do whatever he wants

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

@@MyEnglishIsWorseThanMyKinks Are you a child? They just enjoy the power of forcing the scapegoat to put up with the golden child being treated better. Because they are bullies. Obviously. And of having someone to fawn over & to feel like good parents about, separate from someone to take their cruelty out on. And they deny what they're doing to themselves so they can feel like good people, and having a kid you spoil helps sell the idea that the other kid is upset/uncomfortable around you just because they're lazy and terrible and need correction. Just look up abusive parents and scapegoats vs. golden child dynamics. This is so simple and it's not my job to explain the obvious to you.

[@MyEnglishIsWorseThanMyKinks]

@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 idk where you got the idea that it's "so simple" lol, maybe you went through it yourself (or you know people who went through it), but I didn't, that's why I'm asking about it. Ofc it's not "your job" to explain anything to random people on the internet, so if my question made you upset for some reason, you could've just, y'know, not reply to my last comment. Regardless, thanks for the information, I'll look it up

[@oriondaniels2576]

Endless could have been an interesting take on the land of the lotus eaters, an island that seems to give kids everything they want but actually encourages their worst behaviors so they slowly grow more isolated from their real-life loved ones. They could even keep the butt-witch as a kind of misguided anti-hero that has has good reasons for keeping kids out of endless but goes about it too aggressively (maybe because she knows the kids won't believe her anyway). It almost looks like that's what they were trying to do in the actual show but the final product is just too shallow and too much of a production mess to actually deliver.

[@zehlua]

See, I like your take on the idea.

[@manboy4720]

that actually sounds interesting, and gives a good lesson for kids to not get totally absorbed into fantasies and to appreciate the people close in their lives.

[@AlexN5597]

See! That's what I was thinking too! I could've sworn Butt Witch was gonna end up being the "we thought you were a villain but actually you were trying to help us all along" kind of character, with the island being just as you described, like a mirror image of the island from the Odyssey. But they just fumbled the story somewhere along the way 😑

[@TheThing4444]

No, the Butt Witch is clearly evil. She tried to kill the kids numerous times. The island could sitll be a lotus eater however.

[@Sergei_Ivanovich_Mosin]

There are moments in the show that do actually feel like that's exactly what supposed to be going on, but in the end it never really commits to it and just sweeps those implications under the rug the next episode.

[@ZapStrideGaming]

Imagine how creeped out and upset that boy was when he found out about the truth of those tickets he'd got. He would have been about 23 when that stuff began circulating online. If he realized that it was about him, it'd be so horrible and probably ruin what might have once been a nice memory for the now adult man in his 20s. My older brother is the age that guy is. Not 14, but 14 in 2010. I can't even begin to imagine how disgusted he was or will be when discovering that stuff. Like, now that was about half his current lifetime ago, but still. That's so disgusting, and i feel bad for the guy. He probably once thought of getting 2 final tickets as a nice kind gesture a stranger did out of kindness. But if he (or she if they have transitioned in kast 14 years, you never know) realizes what happened and knows they were that boy at the time, that'd ruin what may have once been an amazing memory for them. And obviously it's not just about ruining a memory, that's fucked up no matter what because a 25 year old was looking at a 14 year old in that way at all, and was taking photos without the kid's knowledge. Whether the photos "turned out good" or not, that's still not ok. And she knew that she was being a creep because she literally said as such and used the tag for a P3D0 on said post

[@EeveelutionStorm]

Okay, I know your trying to be inclusive, but you don't have to include "Oh but what if they transitioned"? we're here because an adult wouldn't stop fantasizing about a 14 year old, don't do the same thing

[@Alex_Barbosa]

​@@EeveelutionStormbro that is not the same thing

[@Alex_Barbosa]

I honestly don't think the boy was real or that whole post. I think it was just old edgy Internet humor and Tumblr fake story nonsense posting again. Regardless, they should know this kinda stuff would have consequences eventually. Don't implicate yourself like that. Is the laugh worth it?

[@EeveelutionStorm]

@@Alex_Barbosa Ah we have the pedophile defender...

[@MF99K]

I actually met Julia in person before all of this came out and she gave off really weird vibes. Within like 5 minutes of conversation she brought up how she had a large collection of Butt Witch NSFW

[@sillycookie]

EWWW WTH

[@geo_games_xd4339]

Gross

[@invadertech141]

w h a t .

[@supaflycoolguy]

that is.. oh..

[@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme]

Ewwwwww

[@nonamesorry7135]

The mom letting her son do whatever he wants while she tries to strictly control what her daughter does could have been a good plot point. I had friends with families like this, relentlessly body shaming and humiliating my female friends and letting their brothers do and eat whatever they wanted, because they were boys not girls. This stuff happens, it's just never explored well in the show. Boys are often looked at as people, while girls have to become "women".

[@Amphidex]

Nah that goes both ways. I thought it was a well known parent issue of boys not being man enough as well as girls not being woman enough, guess not.

[@HebiHouse]

Especially since the mom is nothing to look at.

[@r.r.4563]

Even the opposite can also be easily done, whether it’s a boy mom or girl dad, something that could be explored more is just in general treating your own children as if they’re alien to one another and it’s very common and relatable for many.

[@lordfreerealestate8302]

"Toxic boy moms" on Tiktok are like this. There's a lot of good video essays on YT about it. I was one such girl. "Boys will be boys but girls will be women" as the saying goes. I agree with this comment 💛

[@dowman5]

​@Amphidex Speaking of myself and my S.O., I got the criticism from my parents for being too nerdy for loving videogames and anime instead of typical male activities like sports and dating when I got into high school, and she got relentlessly body shamed for having large breasts too young yet ironically ridiculed for not dressing girly instead of goth. Both of us being black magnified those grievances.

[@sashas_buttercup]

The show is called 12 forever because thats what the creator type is

[@emdragon6666]

Now that's wild

[@Guzmananinmates7077]

Wgat the actual fuck is this joke

[@nitgotlost]

no fuckin way

[@ObludaNamelessMonster]

​@@Guzmananinmates7077what joke ? i see no joke ?

[@Hoopergames]

Media literacy ​@@Guzmananinmates7077

[@yusivishnu]

This show feels like someone who either don't understand Peter Pan, or actively trying to avoid the message of maturity in Peter Pan.

[@MakyalOlson]

Pan was a murderer

[@Alex_Barbosa]

There's a message of maturity in Peter Pan? I always thought it was the opposite.

[@pizzanopastano9159]

WHY 👏🏽 IS 👏🏽 IT 👏🏽 SO 👏🏽 HARD 👏🏽 FOR 👏🏽 INTERNET 👏🏽 CONTENT 👏🏽 CREATORS 👏🏽 TO 👏🏽 NOT 👏🏽 SEXUALIZE 👏🏽 OR 👏🏽 GROOM 👏🏽 CHILDREN!

[@ciderodd4278]

We just hear about it more, just be careful not to assume all lgbtia creators are doing this. Or anyone who writes about this delicate time in life. Because that's how the Fox News and the JR experiences get their fuel for their hatred fire. Also might be worth considering that 20 something year olds were likely writing out of pocket and cringey stuff as kids themselves online and don't grow out of it. I think this will keep happening. Look at Lemon fics, for interest...yikes, glad I got out of the AoO community when I was a teen. Digital footprints last forever. Ftr, I never heard about this show during this just before the pandemic times, only She-ra.

[@matt0044]

*shrugs* It’s not that it’s “hard” so much as the internet has enabled some people to indulge in their worse behaviors. Believe that there’s less of a chance of them being exposed due to their target’s age. As to why it’s always some cartoonist? Clout goes to your head fast. Makes you think the rules don’t apply to you.

[@Mrfloppaz]

Really though 😞

[@ktgame2640]

​@@matt0044 yea not it

[@RuneTacticss]

What does make it so hard for them to just not do that? I really don't understand, what would cause something like that in so many content creators?

[@Starrykatz]

On the topic of Reggies family, I think Reggies family is potentially meant to highlight double standards with families when it comes to gender. It is unfortunately not unheard of for parents to allow their sons to be rebellious and unlikeable, but force their daughters to be clean and perfect, even if said parent isn't like that. Many girls have had experiences with that, and its the double standards are easily seen in todays society with things such as "boys will be boys"(letting boys get away with more) and "lock up your daughters" (forcing girls to always behave 24/7) I haven't watched the show in a while, but this is what I've gotten from it. Maybe it wasn't explicitly said, but rather meant to be implied.

[@FreakxWannaxBe]

I was just about to make a comment about this. Like yes, there is some discrepancy about how they interact and how insistent the mom is about Twelve being feminine. But girls often are pushed to grow up faster, while boys get a pass and are almost left to their own devices. Girls get pushed into responsibilities faster, into nurturing, chores, adulthood. Either to "be a wife and mom", or to learn quickly how to "be an independent woman who can take on everything alone". The fact we have a physical "switch" into adulthood, periods, that starts as early as 10 or 11 for some girls, doesn't help this either. "Well, you're a woman now" talks start fast after the first period hits, and that shows in how girls get pushed into acting adult faster.

[@eatersthemanfool]

I was going to say the same thing. The writing could have gotten the point across better but that dynamic was super common when I was a kid.

[@evawhite1144]

Heavily relate to this. My sisters and I have to be super responsible and mature all the time, but our brother is allowed to do whatever tf he wants with 0 consequences 😒.

[@grafphal5103]

Evensout that men get sentenced higher than women once they are adult.

[@venom_1072]

This is most likely still a lingering of older gender stereotypes and roles where daughters were raised to be married off for financial gain and the sons were just given a bride so it didn't matter if they were a decent person or a loving partner because all of that was expected of the wife. So disgusting that so many relationships types and practices mirror that time like we haven't grown to see how bad it is

[@chaos4654]

I think Reggie being extremely selfish and beligerent was a large part of the point. To me, the show was clearly building up and reinforcing it's importance at every opportunity; She even blatently ignores the red flags her friends see in Endless. If it got a season 2, Reggie's behaivor probably would've been addressed or reached the breaking point. Maybe Reggie would've even had a villain arc.

[@urg6923]

While I agree, it doesn't change that the execution wasn't great. Reggie is just too annoying as a character. For these kind of character arcs to work, it's important for the character in question to be enjoyable to watch.

[@Plsrateeight]

​@@urg6923it's okay to admit you didn't understand the story

[@hohnmagna6903]

​@@Plsrateeightwow cant believe they would critisize this "art" 💀

[@Plsrateeight]

@@hohnmagna6903 hush up little edgy kid, I can easily handle Saber fans, you'll cry if someone farts near you.

[@Zorae42]

@@urg6923 Not really? Male protagonists get away with being unlikable all the time

[@the_seer_0421]

The "12 forever" sure gives it a whole new meaning now. Damn.

[@milestrombley1466]

It doesn't matter if you are a hot woman. A P-word is a P-word!

[@jewelxiat]

"Hot" is too kind a word for her. 😬

[@camiblack1]

Eh, is she really, anything from 2012 on that she was perving on kids? Because, hate saying this, unless she was creeping on 10 year olds, everything looks to be 14-16 from tweets and the Tumblr post (all made when she was lets see 30 in 2024 so subtract 14 years, so 16) you have to pause at the right time to see that it was at the exact same time as the 2010 tweets it was more of a warning that she was gonna creep in her age group. Actually kinda hate how Saber seemingly intentionally covered up the date when zooming in on the Tumblr post, paints a different picture of her creepiness but wouldn't get quite the clicks and engagement. Also wouldn't call her hot.

[@spaceinaspace8452]

Reminds of that South Park episode when Kyle's brother Ike is discovered being in a "Relationship" with a female teacher.

[@ryancarson6962]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@camiblack1Julia Vickerman was born in 1984, the incident with stalking the boy happened in 2010, so she was *26,* at the *most,* when she was stalking a *14 year old boy.* She is undeniably the p-word in this situation. Actually do your research before you accuse Saber of intentionally spreading misinformation to get clicks.

[@mysterykiddo2167]

Agreed!

[@matchamochi781]

One thing that sucks about the animation industry is it is so small so people who were creeps in college will probably end up working with you on a film or show but will have more power.

[@sweetsour4375]

That really sucks to hear. I want to work in animation someday. So does the guy that sexually assaulted me in college. That was 5 years ago and I still hate that sick bastard.

[@MadnessDoe]

The witch is a representation of the creator

[@ACraizyPerson]

no cap

[@hardingryan42]

​​@@TheCoolDude4 prove it & also what content

[@Theonionofthedisneyjuniorlore]

@@TheCoolDude4Who asked?

[@animefan462]

I disagree, butt witch hates children. The creator likes children… a litte too much

[@gracekim25]

Oh god 😢

[@utena2]

12 forever actually has a great concept that I think would help a lot of girls who are at that age, I wish I had a show that tackled this stuff when I was hitting puberty. what a waste

[@TheRealLatvianMF]

theres a movie called middle school (no not the book) that is really informative, check it out!

[@talaedgefangstudios9524]

The fact that the creator also worked on YO GABBA GABBA of all things is just straight up concerning. ESPECIALLY given that show’s demographic

[@lucidstarx3456]

Yo gabba gabba was a big part of my childhood so knowing that creep worked on that show is upsetting

[@unplaceholder]

@@lucidstarx3456 she's not creepy she's literally just existing

[@nexus-sentinel252]

​@@unplaceholder Shut up creep

[@legendarybubbles4567]

@@unplaceholderA GROWN WOMAN, was taking about how 🤢-hot, she finds literal children. 🤮 She stalked a young boy at a carnival, trying to take pictures of him, and wished his mother wasn’t there with him. Calling her a creep is an understatement. Stop downplaying her actions.

[@josephtafur]

And I use to like YO GABBA GABBA EWWWW

[@sasamichan]

jerks who never develop and never grow are annoying too. Being a jerk isn't "just how kids are" its how BAD people are.

[@thestrawberrypimpva]

Actually kids haven't developed empathy so most children are awful people

[@alexandraclavijo8149]

💯

[@ICantRecognizeCelebrities]

True. I've never watched a grown adult throw a tantrum in public and think, "Wow, it's so beautiful when we hold onto our childhood innocence."

[@gokuxsephiroth4505]

Glad that people are taking F on M sexual harrassment more seriously than they did in the past. I actually get the creeps thinking what that poor emo boy could have been subjected to if his mother wasn't there. Like, hot damn, this lady was only a few years younger than me when she was creeping on 14 year olds IT'S SO ICKY

[@CantusTropus]

There are still plenty of people who either don't believe such abuse is really possible, or that if it does happen it's the guy's fault for not being able to stop it. Worst of all are those who think it's a good thing the guy should be grateful for.

[@VScorpio-oc4ei]

@@CantusTropus plus like in some shows like ed edd n Eddy the male characters getting sexual harassed by a female is not a big thing while if a show do the reverse role it will be slam by twitter in a heartbeat

[@animebro14]

​@@CantusTropusOr worse: "WHERE WAS SHE WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL?"

[@gokuxsephiroth4505]

@@CantusTropusI know... it's so twisted. Hopefully things are starting to change

[@recreant359]

@14:00 you say thats not how a 14yr old would sound, but as a father of teenage daughters I can confirm they DO talk like that. An endless stream of consciousness lol

[@ArteiceTB]

The creator had such little involvement in the show outside its creation, so it doesn’t ruin the show for me it’s just sadly ironic. Also frustrating that creators behind The Loud House and Fairly OddParents are rightfully booted from their shows that get to live on but the same couldn’t happen for 12Forever.

[@Essu_]

Because those shows were already vastly successful and provided value to the companies by keeping them running. Also Butch left Fairly Odd Parents, he didn't get booted. This show came out the gate ready to get cancelled.

[@kermitgotthesickkicks4265]

​@@Essu_By the time it got out into Netflix I didn't have hope

[@SergioLeonardoCornejo]

Well. Maybe it can be restored via buying.

[@taylorwright7428]

​@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 Yeah, I think it's been proven by now that Netflix doesn't value their animations as much as other types of shows.

[@Xxxvidsdg]

Yeah but did you watch the video? Pretty much no one wanted involvement in the show or a second season of it plus, it really wasn’t that successful unlike the loud house or Clarence so it being canceled wouldn’t be that much of a problem for Netflix.

[@alyssabullock6421]

Tbh, if they were gonna have Reggie be a self centered jerk who doesnt grow as a person easily, they shouldve let her be that way in Endless Island. She could be a sweet, charming, proper, girly person in the real world so that she can meet the needs of her mom and the expectations of society, but inside she's angry and stressed because she feels like she CANT be anything except what her mom wants her to be, so when she goes to Endless, she can let out her anger and order people around and have everything go HER way. And then she show can touch on that and help her figure out how she can open herself up more to her mother and be the person she actually wants to be in real life. THAT wouldve been so much better.

[@blueflare3848]

This is honestly such a better idea. It gives the character more depth as well.

[@lollybowser]

honestly so many ppl saying "oh shame it got canceled" but controversy aside, when I watched it I thought it was a waste of potential, also Endless felt more like hell than paradise.

[@Sigurther]

End eventually, due to time shenanigans, she becomes the Buttwitch.

[@iamastegosauruses2734]

For some reason I read "And then she can touch on that" as "And then she can show her touching herself"

[@shadowednight1600]

If the creator wasn;t a total creep it could had been that. But Peter Pan Syndrome is a huge problem with people like her and I know this will come up again. There's lots of people like the 12 Forever creator out there

[@Keyndoriel]

Greg married a criminal in show AND in real life. Dedication

[@Randomdude1979]

Noooooo greg

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

He probably knows he's being cheated on, but for some reason, due to double standards, is being docile about it due to Julia having leverage against him.

[@blueflare3848]

Lol

[@purpleemerald5299]

She forces him to roleplay as a little boy every night, but none of the helplines will take him seriously…

[@rimfire8217]

Rose is a lot better then whoever this is

[@luca_diaz]

I know the whole ‘daughter needs to be feminine and mature but the brother can be immature and not punished accordingly’ isn’t unrealistic. It makes an awful lot of sense actually I relate to Reggie a lot in this family dynamic she has I’ll explain what my relationship with my mum is like (vs her and my brother) since it is probably what the show was going for My mum is old, bigger (not that that’s a bad thing but she’s very insecure of her weight) and she was a tomboy when she was younger. She was rebellious and defied the stereotypes of women when she was my age However, now that she’s older, she regrets this. She wishes she was young and skinny again, she wishes she had that chance to accept her femininity and natural maturity. So as a result, she projects that onto me. Constantly pressuring me to be more feminine and “grow up”. She makes me wear dresses, makeup, jewellery, heels and bugs me about mature topics like s3x (I’m 16) Not saying I hate my mum, I get she’s just insecure but I think Reggie’s mum can relate to mine Also, about the brother: The mum isn’t going to care so much about the brothers actions and behaviour because to put it simply. She’s a woman and he’s a teenage boy. She doesn’t really know what’s expected of a boy coming that age since she’s never experienced it. She knows he shouldn’t pick on his sister but she kinda agrees with what he has to say (when he says “Toys aren’t friends”) She probably has the mindset of “boys will be boys”

[@CatherinePercyJackson]

I relate to that Soo much. I hate wearing dresses because I can't run, play and ride bikes properly but my mom forces me to. Then she wants me to be more mature, IM FOURTEEN. If I'm depressed and crying she forces me not to and tells me to control my feelings. If I want to play around like a kid she tells me not to because that is childish. But my brother can cry in public and my mom won't be mad at him. My brother can be the most childish person but she won't care. I am not allowed to have a crush but my brother is allowed to stalk his crush because as she says" boys will be boys" and I hate it!!

[@sunnivamhagatun]

i’m so, so glad that boy from her post had his mom around. i don’t doubt that if he had been alone, she’d try to groom him. what a creep.

[@Dieaconus]

20:30 Oh god I really LOVE when abusers reduce their actions to "sorry to offend" when literally no one was saying what they did was "offensive" /sarcastic. HER ACTIONS HURT PEOPLE. That's not a matter of opinion that people get offended over, it's vile behaviour with long-lasting consequences. Whether or not it "offends" people means NOTHING, because it's not about anyone else, it's about the victims being hurt. Horrible people just love throwing that word around because they think it infantilises them, and they think it will get the red-pilled billionaire bootlickers on their side. Disgusting 😭

[@starrycharacter]

Exactly like she followed a child around and took pictures of him! That's not a joke that's not a funny haha that's taking a picture of a minor within the context of being attracted to that minor 🤮

[@camiblack1]

@@starrycharacterHow old was the kid? And it was 14 years ago when she was 16... it's creepy in the way that the girl who took pictures of her classmates because she shipped them was creepy (if you know the story behind that). Saber could have REALLY spelled it out, but kinda didn't, that that whole creeping on a kid around her age when she was also a kid just shows she's always been a creep to those around her in age, and should have been a warning that she was gonna perv on her co-workers. Like do people really not read the time and date stamps 2010 was not yesterday and contrary to fandom belief, real people do tend to age? Before you come at me, I'm saying it was a warning sign that she was gonna creep on her coworkers (who are probably within 2-3 years of her age-wise), because she was creeping on fellow minors within 2-3 years of her when she was 16 (do the math, 30 in 2024 is how old in 2010 when all but the "Jokes I made a decade ago" tweets and the Tumblr post were made). FFS use your brains for 10 seconds.

[@ernestos.robles5385]

@@camiblack1 Bro she was 26 when she followed the 14 YO kid, she was not a teenager herself, she is close to 40 today and even then following someone to take a picture is something you do at 13 at most, if I had followed a girl or boy at 16 to take a picture I would have been labeled the creep at school and had my ass handed to me on the daily, a girl doing that would have been the weirdo kid nobody actually talks to (in 2010 I mean, I think kids these days are more informed of how wrong this is today)

[@ryancarson6962]

⁠@@camiblack1Julia Vickerman was born in 1984, the incident with stalking the boy happened in 2010, so she was *26,* at the *most,* when she was stalking a *14 year old boy.* You talk about us using our brains, but you would actually be using yours by actually researching her age yourself before making claims like she was 16 when this happened, which is objectively untrue.

[@elmaster48]

Her excuse of “I was just joking” falls apart with one question. Where is the punchline?

[@chuckiebobphil]

All the allegations against Chris Hardwick were proven to be false though and his ex girlfriend admitted she lied and was jealous of his wife. The woman that he dated right after her and got engaged rather quickly.

[@theflaminglitten-fo6jd]

how could someone just lie about that...that ruins people's lives. she should be punished with jail time for lying, at least serious defamation because there will always be people who will never find out truth and always see him that way

[@antikommunistischaktion]

@@theflaminglitten-fo6jd A certain movement that starts with f and ends in eminism encourages women to lie about that specifically because it ruins lives.

[@Da_bear-ij9gm]

@@antikommunistischaktionmost idiotic comment of the day 😂

[@RoyG.BivDevoe]

​@@antikommunistischaktion That's not even feminism, that was her just being jealous and vindictive cause she knew she could, shit like this has been happening before the current "feminism" movement.

[@antikommunistischaktion]

@@Da_bear-ij9gm Femininity so fragile.

[@varnix1006]

I'm starting feel like an entire genre of books that supposedly aimed at teenage girl audience during late late 2000 is to blame here.

[@Game_Hero]

like what? I'm curious.

[@scarletweb2106]

Yeah me too ❤

[@kalkhalinzhui1753]

On the top of my head, Twilight. I know, "how original" I must be. On another note, perhaps some movie adaptations of teen novels are to partially blame like, again, Twilight.

[@artlover5060]

For the people saying "The brother getting away with being immature and rude instead of his sister is relatable": Yeah we all know. The problem is (from what I can tell from this video) it's not *depicted* as a problem. The show just seems to brush it off as "Oh well, that's great parenting". It wouldn't have been a problem if that was a obstacle in the mom's character arc where she learns to treat her kids equally and be more educated on parenting in general. Even set an example for the main character to look up to and grow up herself.

[@alphakowaclips]

All toxic parents think they're great parents ...😅

[@disaster4550]

why do people nowadays expect all media to explicitly state everything to you? you're not supposed to just assume everything shown in a show = good unless stated otherwise. and not all characters have to be redeemed 🙂

[@MarsAugust6157]

​@@disaster4550 that is true, but in a show about growing up I'd say that it's weird it just goes unchallenged, not everything has to be spelled out as bad but having a character, especially an adult character who the main character looks up to, be seriously flawed could be interesting

[@greywolf7577]

It's ironic because usually it is the boys who are under more pressure by society to grow up. If they don't get good jobs after school, they struggle to find a good wife, whereas a woman can still find a good husband even if she doesn't make much money.

[@artlover5060]

@disaster4550 I never said the mom had to be good or that everything in the show should be assumed as good. I said my example of a character arch for the mom would be perfect for the theme of the MC. Also the explanation I said was not for why the mom is lenient towards ger son and not her daughter because it's obvious; internalized misogyny, but *why* does she have that is the underlying question. *Why* does she have such a bias? *What* was her personal experience that caused that? These are interesting questions that are obvious for a show to have and answer. That's the whole point of a show.

[@danielmedina4276]

I'm all for shows about imagination and coming of age, but this show just made me super uncomfortable, and that was BEFORE I found out the creator was a creep.

[@melr8183]

Agreed, it was never entertaining enough to continue watching and often felt more irritating and uncomfortable than anything

[@daskampffredchen]

The show is literally called 12 forever

[@danielmedina4276]

@@melr8183 agreed. At a certain point I just didn’t even want to see anymore. It was never really compelling, I was just bored. And this show actively made me not want to watch it

[@D_YellowMadness]

@@daskampffredchenYeah, I got a weird vibe from that title the first time I heard of it but I decided to give it a chance & it didn't seem creepy from the trailer. Clearly, stuff escalated though. Makes the joke about hanging out in the locker together weird in hindsight, which is a shame because it was my favorite joke.

[@trooper9249]

I tried watching Twelve Forever when it first came out, but I quickly gave up on it because I personally found the show's aesthetic to be very off-putting and unappealing. The allegations about Vickerman that later came out made me view it in an even less positive light.

[@kitty3999]

I tried watching it as well, but just couldn't get into it. I liked Shane, but knowing he was literally went out of existance; it just felt weird.

[@ellugerdelacruz2555]

A pedo in charge of a woke @$$ show? Gee, what a surprise!!!

[@Lumberjack_Linnie]

When I joke around with my best friend I say stuff that would cancel me instantly if anyone would hear it. I was the victim of SA when I was a child. My brother and his friends r*ped me and forced me to drink urine and all that stuff. I use humour to cope with that. Accordingly dark are my jokes. But I would never ever post one of them on the internet. Especially not if I had inappropriate feelings for real minors.

[@the_seer_0421]

Wtf I'm so sorry that happened to you

[@jasperjazzie]

honestly the fact that this creep of a showrunner had worked on the 2016 ppg reboot, clarence and rick and morty is...not surprising, honestly, it's like there's a pattern.

[@coinzandcandy550]

Clarence?

[@gokuxsephiroth4505]

I didn't know the ppg twerking clip was supposed to be foreshadowing for the sexualisation of children.

[@Toonrick12]

​@@coinzandcandy550Creator went mental and was booted off from his own show and main character.

[@fluidwolf]

@@gokuxsephiroth4505 It never crossed your mind that the show having several in universe children doing a dance move that mainly involves shaking their asses at people could be a bad sign?

[@ItsAubreeyy]

@@fluidwolfturning red did the same thing and i hate how nobody referenced this

[@Galavantman]

The Butt Witch had an amazing voice and was best part of the show. Everything else, not so much.

[@koughnut0520]

Fr Matt Berry has such a good voice 😭😭😭

[@MartianMeli]

Honestly so in love with the Butt Witch. Sad to see that the creator is a loser

[@jaykilkenny5727]

Literally, over here in the UK he is everywhere. Adverts, TV, radio, movies. And still his voice is just so majestic

[@WalkingNeonCarpet]

i want a different show made with the butt witch plucked directly into it. her name though lol

[@Stevey2578]

I disagree, the episodes were mostly good and relatable.

[@R_A_H_H_H_H]

As a weird kid, I can relate to Reggie alot. She's seen as annoying, temperamental, and childish, and I've felt all of these before. When nobody really likes you because you can't "grow up" it really hits you hard, and it can really make a kid insecure and just want to escape from everything. Though the temper Reggie has is something that is over exaggerated, and can be very difficult to watch, even if I can relate to her in alot of ways. Plus she never takes responsibility for her actions, and always treats her friends like trash, which makes her seem like a brat.

[@artz69420]

Honestly Reggie completely reminds me of myself when I was 12

[@R_A_H_H_H_H]

@@artz69420 exactly

[@DarkVampireL]

It’s not a joke when you fallow around an underage kid and say stuff like, “if the mother wasn’t there…” that isn’t a joke, that is child predator behavior. I know 2010 was a different time, edgy jokes were all around, I love edgy jokes, but there is just not joke in there.

[@Junior-t4d9r]

Ironic that since the show is not returning the protagonist will stay 12 forever.

[@mysterykiddo2167]

LOL

[@desaug]

HAH

[@failed_human_being]

As someone who watched 12 Forever as a 12-year-old child, I did not find any comfort in the show or relation to the character Reggie. It felt like the show was simplifying and overly s@xualizing puberty. There are a lot of worse things about it other than getting a bra for your birthday. However, hearing the Tumblr post made me feel genuinely disgusted. At twelve, I matched that description very well, and hearing someone infatuate and be creepy about the exact demographic of young children that the show targeted made both a lot of sense about how the writing decisions felt, and was completely mortifying.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

"I did not find any comfort in the show or relation to the character Reggie." I'd like elaboration on that, if possible.....

[@invadertech141]

you have not failed

[@rampantdisorder]

You felt that way when you were twelve? Must've been an extremely intellectual twelve year old.

[@Yami-mugoni613]

Eh it depends for everyone, I know me as a twelve year old i would relate and still do with being pushed to eh feminine

[@PennesinoTheGreat]

Barky boats from bluey is so much better.

[@coconutwater82]

I wish the show never got canceled 😭 Its a shame the creators a bad person.

[@mrunknown138]

I always wondered why this never got another season. Loved the intro song.

[@AreesDaOG]

True

[@cameronbosch1213]

I mean, they could have had somebody else take it over. Although usually when the show creator leaves, that's not a good sign.

[@saulgoodman4235]

Sadly, put that's how cancel culture work. If you're a bad person, be prepare what people's will hate anything what you created, no matter what is it - Friendly family song about Christmas, or fond of help for people's with Dawn sindrom. "Society" will ruin anything

[@SnuubScadoob]

@saulgoodman4235 This made… no fucking sense. If you’re a bad person, and you make something harmful, or do something harmful, you shouldn’t expect any consequences? Is that what you’re getting at? Cuz it sure as hell sounds like it. I’m sorry, but… that’s not the way the world works. Whatever you do, there will always be consequences to your actions.

[@n0refuge]

Kinda showing the double standard that exists for women as sexual abusers. If Julia had been a man she would been burned to the ground for her actions. Loss of her show aside, Julia basically got away with sexual harassment.

[@lasmirandadennsiewillja9435]

I don't care if it makes me sound old but As Told By Ginger is still one of the best animated coming-of-age series and it's a shame it didn't get the cult classic status the writing deserves because of some of the style choices.

[@MrDzoni955]

Ah, yeah. The show is so ugly! And it sucks because it's well written and some episodes are 10/10 in terms of writing

[@mollusckscramp4124]

@@MrDzoni955 The good kind of ugly, it appealed to me so much as a kid and had so much personality! I loved that Wild Thornberries kind of art style. I'm also so bummed that the writers were never given the creative freedom by the network to follow through with Courtney Griplin coming out as liking Ginger. They laid so much groundwork for the reveal and never got to pull to trigger!

[@MrDzoni955]

@@mollusckscramp4124 To me it was just ugly to look at but I was watching it for the first time as an adult, so I can understand what you are saying. For an example, as a kid I never thought Ed Edd and Eddy looked ugly. Oh and I didn't know Courtney was supposed to be into Ginger, just didn't see it

[@dellybird5394]

Honestly, As Told By Ginger looks miles better than Twelve Forever. The color palette is so much more comforting. The characters are a little ugly, but that's because it's a show about awkward preteens. Do they really need to be hot? I do appreciate a good show with stylized characters. I have a soft spot for the character designs of Nobuyuki Fukumoto, for example.

[@MrDzoni955]

@@dellybird5394 Amm... The artstyle is ugly is what some of us are saying, we don't need the child characters to be hot. I know it's subjective, but to many of us it just looks ugly. Other examples of ugly looking cartoons for me are Big mouth and Bobs burgers. Interestingly enough, I like the way Nobuyaki's mangas look.

[@plasticsoya]

i cant get over the fact that the production show is called "The cartel" 😭😭😭

[@PasteilloTheCat]

​@@Kiyomi-ie5wd I don't get what's wrong- 😭

[@zenochara7522]

@@PasteilloTheCatdrug cartels

[@DeputyFish]

A cartel is an association of similar companies or businesses that have grouped together in order to prevent competition and to control prices.@@PasteilloTheCat

[@PasteilloTheCat]

@@zenochara7522 no wonder 🤠

[@YodaOnABender]

@@PasteilloTheCatare you telling me you don’t know what a cartel is?

[@skellington8090]

…. And THIS is why I’m more of a Phineas and Ferb person. Dan and Swampy haven’t done anything weird or wrong like this. They’re genuinely nice and cool guys, and I’d love to meet them someday.

[@sweetsour4375]

They do seem genuinely nice and cool, but there are still some things to critique about Phineas and Ferb, mainly racial/ethnic stereotypes.

[@mememan1546]

​@@sweetsour4375 thats a fair point, but id much rather watch a show made by someone a little racist than a show made by someone that actively preys on teenage boys.

[@juannaym8488]

@@sweetsour4375 aw come on Like yeah they use some stereotypes but it's very worst somewhat ignorant. It's not their fault that Indians are the most insecure group of people on Earth, that are upset no matter how they're portrayed, and I say that as someone of Indian descent myself

[@theautismrizzler]

@@sweetsour4375I’m not defending them but it was also quite common for cartoons to have racist undertones of some description. It sucks, absolutely and I do believe that they have moved away from them in recent years.

[@dylansharp8471]

@@sweetsour4375 Stereotypes?

[@sinofman]

I'm a indie film and animation producer author actor singer song writer. working in all of this has taught me the most valuable lesson. Be careful who you work for and speak up if there is a problem.

[@Junior-t4d9r]

This show reminds me what I hate about Isekai which is that they don't understand escapism. Escapism isn't abandoing your old life without any guilt, its temporary relief from the real world. The series add least understood that.

[@HowlingDoom]

I mean escapism can very much diverge into a desire to abandon your old life. There are people who genuinely wish to escape the realities of the world so much so they would leave it behind if they could, escapism can be just as bad as it good. Also not all isekai is willing escapism lol.

[@briochelover]

My least fave thing abt isekai is that the escapism/wishful thinking is so blatant it makes me sad. Its basically just 'what if you lived in a world where girls actually wanted to sleep with you? What if you actually impacted your peers' lives?' But you can't even watch one episode of isekai without thinking about the types of lonely guys who will latch onto it 😭

[@marksunboxingzone]

I mean in most Isekais the protagonist died so there's no going back. What gets me is other than the initial shock in the set up episode, the character seems to completely forget about their previous life and forget all about the friends and family (or at least family since a lot of them had no friends) and completely immerse themselves in the fantasy world. I know if it were me, I'd at least miss videogames, movies and pizza.

[@HowlingDoom]

@@marksunboxingzone I mean there are tons of different isekai stories. It's been a w recent trend of the protag dying and going to a other world but not most are like that.

[@silverprimus321boi9]

Fair enough, but most isekai stories begin with the MC literally dying and getting reborn in another world.

[@silversofisticated]

she saying that the comment "didn't age weell", WELL back in 2010 it was already WRONG and CREEPY

[@animeotaku307]

It aged as well as a moldy slice of cheese on a sidewalk. It just got more moldy.

[@guy7934]

@@animeotaku307 The cheese touch

[@fakelu8576]

About the “Brother can be an immature jerk but sister needs to grow up, be mature and feminine” thing, it is sadly enough very relatable. Often all the expectations in families for maturity are in the girls, even when the brother is older you are just supposed to put up with the jerk and even mother them.

[@cristalido3640]

It just doesn't works on narrative terms, and doesn't fits reality either... Boys who are masculine, have friends or do well in school don't get pressure because they are maturing well. No parent will leave their boy alone if he's behaving badly, getting into problems often or being immature/irresponsible like Reggie... I was like that as a kid, and had to go to many psychologists because of that.

[@Deatheater4444]

I assure you, the reverse is just as common. Parents are people, and they will frequently latch on to one child for whom they have very high aspirations, and load all their hopes onto them with the attendant expectations. Even within the scenario where the one sibling is allowed to be an immature jerk and a failure, you have to realize that's not a *positive* thing. Being uninterested in your child's behavior or success, being unwilling to push them to succeed or establish boundaries; that's a form of neglect.

[@dl3209]

The problem with this is that boys tend to be pushed to become more independent and to learn to build themselves up at an early age while girls are not and just do whatever without anyone caring

[@StrawberryCocoaPowder]

@@cristalido3640he literally bullies his sister

[@MrsStormtrooper]

Damn, that's the exact opposite of how it works where I live. Girls are babied over and boys are expected to be born knowing how to do taxes or something.

[@SophGar12]

"Dumb jokes I made long time ago" Mam You Followed A 14 Year old around a Carnaval And Talked about his appearance weirdly as you are an adult. That is Not A Joke that is being creepy, You were being creepy

[@papasmurf555]

So?

[@IgikoPop]

Didn’t she also work on the awful powerpuff reboot too? Makes sense

[@BluffsCastle]

Yeah. She specifically worked on the episode where the PPGs twerk.

[@daisyblueofficial]

The live action one?

[@IgikoPop]

@@BluffsCastle Predatooooor! God so gross👁👄👁

[@FillmGeekOfDoom]

@@daisyblueofficial No the 2016 reboot.

[@frikitiki5403]

Wonder if she was pals with the guy who self insert himself as blossom's crush

[@jestyr5979]

reggie's mom isn't a tomboy, she's a boy-mom, which is why she does next to nothing to discourage her son from being cruel to her daughter, and forcing femininity on middle school girls with no explanation is something that happens a lot and is almost expected at this point, i don't know why you would expect a spelled out explanation on why she would do that when no tomboy ever gets that even though they all go through that pressure at some point

[@theflaminglitten-fo6jd]

yea a lot of people are point that out in the comments, I guess he just doesn't know since he's not a girl and didn't grow up with those expectations/ experiences. still I wonder why he didn't just ask one of his friends if this was common, im sure they'd tell him

[@lyria261]

​​@@theflaminglitten-fo6jdmaybe his friends were lucky enough not to have these kind of experiences either. Thankfully there are a lot of families with healthy dynamics out there as well (sadly not nearly enough though)

[@theflaminglitten-fo6jd]

@lyria261 that's definitely a possibility. my parents weren't like this either, it was my grandma pushing that ideology instead

[@lyria261]

@@theflaminglitten-fo6jd man it sucks that family members feel the need to do this. Nobody should be told who they have to be. Everyone is different and that's the beauty of life

[@manboy4720]

and she WILL be attending this year's motherboy!

[@noonslullabies]

The other thing we can take away from Forever 12 is Matt Berry deserves more opportunities to play a villainess. It might be because I've read one too many villainess isekai, but he'd have a ball with one that is proudly the villainess everyone fears.

[@ctdaniels7049]

I still can't get over that Matt Berry (also in "What We Do In The Shadows", and "Garth Merenghi's Darkplace") has basically the exact same voice in his other roles. It's like his Brand:tm: :P

[@ZorroVulpes]

It's a shame because I think young girls deserve media that discusses issues they're going through like their changing bodies, but every time I want to give the creator of a show targeted at young people the benefit of doubt I regret it. Now I'm wondering if Big Mouth has any creeps working on it.

[@sn0wcake]

the worst part is that the context of who the creator is really makes the show a lot creepier. 12 year old kids staying 12 forever? wonder why she liked THAT idea...

[@PrincessMavenKittyDarkholme]

Ik

[@bellebonebag8096]

In literally any other context, that wouldn't be creepy at all. There's a lot of people who wish they could stay as a kid forever. It's no different from wanting to be immortal, just without the pains and aches of being an adult or teenager

[@bellebonebag8096]

The internet has conditioned some people to think any piece of media revolving around children, that isn't like Cocomelon or Sesame Street, is creepy. That's a weird way to think. Everyone was a child at one point, so it's completely normal for people to want to discuss childhood. And their stories won't always be wholesome and pure and cute- That's not reality. Stories involving kids aren't always meant to be cute, some are meant to bring awareness. Bad things DO happen to children, children DO have negative thoughts, and they can become depressed just like adults can. They DO remember trauma, and that trauma often follows them into adulthood and affects their entire life; The sooner we accept this fact, the sooner we can start identifying the red flags and actually protecting children from harmful situations.

[@sn0wcake]

@@bellebonebag8096 yes...im saying it was recontextualized. i'm not saying the concept itself was creepy, please learn to read

[@davyjones3105]

Considering she was a writer for PPG 2016, I wasn’t surprised.

[@Cubeytheawesome]

Yeah no shit. Bliss was done dirty by being in a mid reboot.

[@DebbieDickens]

>Wrote the controversial episode where the PPGs twerked. >Storyboarded the other controversial episode involving the head writing shipping himself with Blossom. It's like her animation career was set up to fall apart.

[@KENNYTHEGHOST777]

@@DebbieDickensmy eyes have been burnt away from that twerking scene.

[@Marializ____2024]

Fr​@@DebbieDickens

[@massgunner4152]

IT WAS HER?!

[@raccoon.smiles]

I watched 12 Forever at 13. I really liked the show then, but looking back at it now I can't get over how creepy most of the jokes were. Girl was out here getting kids comfortable with gross jokes being made about them. Blegh

[@LunarMoonKitten]

I watched the show in 2020

[@jasperjazzie]

yeah, i agree, a lot of it you look at and go "yeah, this is definitely the author's poorly disguised fetish", and the premise itself of the show seems harmless, just a silly coming of age story about not wanting to grow up, but when you take into account the creator it really does just seem like it was fantasy fuel for her rather than a fun story for kids to relate to. a lot of people wish the show continued without her, but i feel like there'd still just be the uncomfortable vibe.

[@RotheAlien]

It's important to remember that while the creator came with the general premise of the show, the series was written and animated by a lot of people who I believe (and hope) are normal. So i dont think the show is contaminated in any certain way. This kind of humor that could be uncomfortable to some ppl is a classic from the 2010s. Look back to the first seasons of adventure time as an example!

[@nevaehhamilton3493]

That's what child groomers do. They diminish the self-esteem of their victims as a way to force them to submit to them like slaves to their will.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

I watched the show and saw none of that This feels like the people who hate J.K. Rowling And then go back and psychoanalyze Harry Potter to paint it as some sort of racist Eugenics manifesto