Saddurs Randoms - Star Trek TNG - Mr. Data learns poker very well and owns Riker

This scene from Star Trek: The Next Generation is awesome :) Data owns Riker big time. S4E6

[@BigNoseDog]

Viewers often miss the point of this scene. It isn’t to show that Data has learned how to recognize when Riker is tricking him. Rather, it’s to set up the theme of the episode, which is trust. Here we have Riker, a person Data trusts completely, trying to trick him. Contrast this with the main plot where Ishara tricks Data into thinking she’s a friend. Why did Data recognize his close friend was trying to trick him but not recognize that this woman he barely knew was doing the same? There’s a wonderful scene at the end which is circles back to where the episode started. Once again, it’s Riker trying to teach Data about the nature of trusting someone.

[@Sadduur]

What a great comment my friend!

[@LordTalax]

They are goodie goodies that want to trust complete strangers completely, it was really quite pathetic how easily she could fool them.

[@OptimusWombat]

@@LordTalax except that in their minds, she wasn't a "complete stranger". They were willing to impart their trust upon her simply because she was the sister of a dear (and dead) friend and colleague.

[@Sadduur]

@@LordTalax xd

[@Finsternis..]

"Why did Data recognize his close friend was trying to trick him but not recognize that this woman he barely knew was doing the same?" That isn't even a valid question, because the situation are barely comparable. Riker tried to deceive Data with visible actions on an announced card trick, namely with the way he shuffled the cards. Data exceeds in recognizing details ans subtle motions. Tashas sister tried to deceive the crew on an emotional level. Something Data does not comprehend. Even if he could have recognized subtle motions that are common in liars, he chose to trust his former lovers sister unconditionally.

[@Rubyofthedead]

He literally threw them away, lol.

[@Sadduur]

A funny detail 😸

[@georgeh5075]

Brent added that in himself, Marina's reaction was genuine and they left both in.

[@rrwholloway]

Such a great little moment of actors who understand their characters adding a little magic to the scene.

[@Randoman590]

"Sir, I believe under the circumstances...." Combined with that smug smirk.....perfect.

[@blockmasterscott]

I like how Troi started laughing when Data literally threw the cards away lol.

[@nnthayer]

It was like a hint of the old season 1 Data 😂

[@AgentParsec]

"We have received a distress call..." No, that was just Riker secretly lamenting over his loss. It was picked up on the bridge.

[@Sadduur]

:D

[@r4ttlech4n44]

🤣

[@vitaminq4348]

😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@larrycopeland2413]

Troi picked up his psychic pain and quietly let Picard know.

[@AlanCanon2222]

Bridge? Nah, it was Poker.

[@ct0760]

Omg he has come so far since Riker first bluffed him in season 2 lol

[@Sadduur]

Datas pokerface is amazing xd

[@Smeginator]

And then he backtracks in stupid Nemesis

[@ct0760]

Its also funny that Picard of all people is able to determine Data's tell to the point Data says he doesnt know which deception to emply

[@tylerchurch1152]

The grin at the end is just perfect, Data. lol

[@xibal3405]

Scenes like this illustrate the masterpiece that TNG is.

[@Sadduur]

Damn right! TNG and DS9 are some of the best ever made.

[@TangoMerchant]

Brent Spiner would never again achieve the heights he reached as Data. One of the best characters (and portrayals) in all of Trek - and most of TV and Film.

[@Sadduur]

He was brilliant!

[@terryrose4804]

Precisely. "Rent Control": Starring Brent Spiner" shown as a lead-in to TNG premiere was not his best work.

[@develynseether4426]

@@terryrose4804 I disagree, Rent Control was 6 years prior. The reason he got TNG was his performances on Night Court and he was widely received in that. I think he'd have been a main in a big comedy if he hadn't been on Trek.

[@mistermonologue2442]

@@develynseether4426 Absolutely. Spinner's nature is a jokester.

[@AaronSmith-kr5yf]

@@develynseether4426 Honestly I think Brent could have carried a sit com as the main character if he hooked up with the correct writers/producers. He could have been a standup comedian in another life. Still though, his work as Mr Data is groundbreaking and absolutely brilliant, I can't think of a better portrayal of artificial life than what Mr Spiner brought to Data.

[@September2004]

I like little things like the chip that rolled back onto the card at 0:35 and Frakes just rolls with it. Very naturalistic.

[@leebode4643]

Still the best poker face I've ever seen.

[@aaronbruceladner1983]

In Addition to Playing LIEUTENANT WORF, Michael Dorn Provided the Voice of I AM WEASEL

[@JamesCarmichael]

And one of the Krogan Clan Leaders in Mass Effect 2.

[@jdmpjm]

And Kalibak from Justice League Unlimited!

[@SvendleBerries]

And the Goliath unit from StarCraft. As well as Dr. John in Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers.

[@hindermannbjorn9507]

And acted as Duke Achillus Atreides in Emperor:Battle for Dune

[@skynetprime82]

Never try to outsmart an android 😅

[@Sadduur]

Yeah :D

[@apokalypsecow9756]

What Riker did was a way of "forcing" the card, a common enough trick in magic shows. It gives Data the illusion of choice since he's picking the cards, but Riker is the one determining what happens to each pile.

[@AlanCanon2222]

I was so proud of myself when I learned to do a very juvenile version of that as a teenager. (With a different setup to get control of the card, that didn't involve nearly as skilled slight of hand).

[@Al-Mokadimah]

@@AlanCanon2222 But I don't understand, at the end there were 3 cards and Riker told Data to pick one of them, was he depending on luck at the end ?

[@AlanCanon2222]

Good question, and the answer is no, because as you can see at 2:21, Data looks at Riker, quizzically, and Riker gives a silent nod which gives Data silent permission to turn the card that Data picked and look at it. If Data had picked a card other than the one that Riker knew was the correct one, Riker would have instead (according to the rules of a magician's force) immediately told him to throw that card away too, reducing the pile to two cards, etc. So there's no dialogue for the final force, but there is nonverbal communication between the magician and their mark. (I should add that I'm not a magician myself, but am fascinated by the subject, and read a few books on it when I was a kid, and have had a few card tricks explained to me by real magicians, and this particular version of the magician's force is probably the only one that I know well.)

[@Al-Mokadimah]

​@@AlanCanon2222 Oh I see, thanks for explaining. If it won't trouble you, what's this Magician's force and how or why does it have rules ? Of course I can just google it, but I prefer to listen(or read in this context) to someone passionately explains the thing they enjoy.

[@AlanCanon2222]

In this context, "force" just means you're "forcing" (making) the mark (victim, Data in this case) do what you want, while giving them the illusion that they're making free choices. Here, the rules are, if the mark chooses the pile containing the card, you tell them to keep that pile. If they chose the other pile, you tell them to discard, throw away, that pile. It's not really any more complicated than that. If the word "rule" is hard to understand, the word "procedure" would do just as well.

[@jmackmcneill]

I amazed at the number of people that cannot comprehend the idea of just playing for the victory. It's a game of skill.

[@martyklestadt6766]

Right. Well, there's luck involved too. I used to play a home game where we did not play for money. We played tournament-style, and had a weekly championship, and a points system for a season championship.

[@malarucoon]

52 into 2 is 26, into 2 is 13, when Riker asked him to split the deck into two even piles "and again", Data should have pointed out that there was an odd number of cards and thus could not make two evenly matched piles of cards.

[@matthewferrantino9521]

But if he had called into question the legitimacy of the experiment, he would forfeit the winnings. Logically, the only winning move was to play. ;)

[@rays5163]

13 divided by two is actually 11.

[@AvangionQ]

The string bets ... if you ever go to a poker tournament, don't go doing what you see here.

[@Sadduur]

xD Poker is a tough game, especially no-limit tourney stuff!

[@aaronbruceladner1983]

0:10, PAH!!

[@lukef.132]

Reminder to trun your volume back down when you finsihs the video! save your ears 😄

[@tilasole3252]

0:47 you can see Marina smiling/laughing in the reflection.

[@paulsarnik8506]

Commander, you have not appreciated poker until you have played the original Quo'noS. Hold 'Em! 😸🤓😎🖖🏻

[@JohnDrose-mr1fi]

always found the rumble of the ship sound effect relaxing. just best show ever.

[@Sadduur]

Perfect chilling background noise! :D

[@icer1249]

Riker completed both conditions of the bet. Found the card and used data to split the decks so data helped. The technique used was not in question, if data saw how he did it he should of stopped before the trick was done. Riker wins.

[@james0xaf]

The card was never successfully hidden.

[@dhinton1]

​@@james0xaf which was Data's precise point. Data definitely won.

[@nicholaskehler9169]

Riker didn't win the bet he said Data would help him find the card. As Data pointed out Riker always knew where the card was so Data did not and could not help him find it. He planted it and made Data remove everything else that is not finding the card.

[@InsaneTreefrog]

PSA to turn your volume back down after watching this is you'll lose your hearing

[@September2004]

If you look at the cards every time Data cuts it in half, when they switch camera angles, there’s lots of discontinuity every time they switch camera angles.

[@underwaterlevelz1947]

Had to rewatch it at 1:39 to see if I could spot Riker marking the Jack of Hearts, but couldn't see it. It's staged well enough that Riker may have done it, but only a very keen eye (such as Data's) would be able to spot it.

[@Gnarlf]

If Datas analysis had been true, then it might be viable to look for these things. However technically he did not force the card at all, when you look at the last step. So the explanation is only to show how good Riker and Data are, not to actualy reflect reality

[@doliver6034]

When Data threw the Cards over his shoulder I almost chocked on my dinner ... lol

[@KP-nm1ko]

Interesting that Riker won the bet, but Data assumed he should take the chips. The bet was not to discover how Riker did the trick, but to have Data help Riker arrive at the correct card.

[@Sadduur]

Yes indeed! In some way would assume data would point out how it happened, but would also point out this very thing and then slide the chips for Riker. Tho this way the scene is much funnier with Data smirking around like that winning the evening xd

[@Septimus_ii]

Yeah, after perfectly explaining the trick I expected him to still give the winnings to Riker

[@nicholaskehler9169]

@@Septimus_ii Riker didn't win the bet he said Data would help him find the card. As Data pointed out Riker always knew where the card was so Data did not and could not help him find it. He planted it and made Data remove everything else that is not finding the card.

[@BTG514]

Nah, Data indulged Riker then explained the trick.

[@September2004]

Well, Riker did say that he would get Data to help him ‘find’ it. One could argue that ‘finding’ could imply that you have to lose it first and Riker didn’t really lose it, thus Data didn’t help him ‘find’ it since he knew where the card was at each step. Since Data didn’t actually help Riker ‘find’ the card since he knew where it was each time, Data could win by that interpretation. I personally don’t think that’s too much of a stress.

[@deugister]

thx for adding S and E into the desc :)

[@Sadduur]

No problem :)

[@frozenlake1215]

Worf & Data: Fool Us

[@philipchiu9835]

I didn't think they used money in the 24th century 😅😂 yet here they are betting

[@1FatHappyBirthday]

Since money has no value and there is nothing you can buy that you can’t get freely, there is no real risk in betting it all. There is nothing to truly lose or gain.

[@Sadduur]

This point has been talked about in a other comment. Money as it has value in our current world order has nothing to do with why these fictional characters are playing the game. :)

[@kyletakemoto9628]

And to think, back in season 2, he was completely thrown by Riker bluffing him in poker. Well done Mr. Data. The student has become the master.

[@smileymalaise]

That's a high quality video

[@scottrackley4457]

Riker created a monster

[@Sadduur]

0:20 :D

[@ultramaximusreviews]

Data's explanation of how the trick works is not right - he says "until we were left with just one - the card I originally chose." there were 3 cards to choose from and Data did not have to pick the one in the middle. Riker said pick one - not the middle one.

[@sugarnads]

Yes and had he picked left or right data would have been told 'now throw it away' etc until the correct card was the one he had

[@davidstemmler1836]

Playing with someone who can read your emotions is a losing proposition. If the counselor can't win in this game something is wrong.

[@movieclipz1441]

Love you Mr Data 😂😇

[@JohnSmith-zw8vp]

This what we in the gaming community call breaking the game.

[@Z7Sakari]

I always shake my head when Data shoves all his chips into the middle to match Riker even though he has about three times as many.

[@danieldickson8591]

It was his bet to make. Besides, it's no longer poker, so there are no betting rules.

[@courtney-rw8ch]

This is an actual great card trick, although the initial part is a bit longer.

[@IanHobday]

Distress call from Riker's wallet...

[@Sadduur]

xD

[@skyblue1954]

he did exactly what he said he would, doesnt matter if it was a trick or not

[@Sadduur]

Yeah, but he did so under the aegis of deception, which generally is frowned upon in card games. Maybe Data would've been more tolerant towards a trick involving only mathematics and not sleight of hand or similar methods. Haha :D

[@spiffinz]

@@Sadduur data wasnt in the right taking the chips, had such a bet not come to fruition, he would have been in the right. however, riker was able to pull it off. the fact data recognized how it was happening, *while it was happening* was irrelevant, the card he chose in the end was his original selection

[@Sadduur]

@@spiffinz Still a bit shady from Riker :D

[@BaronRathorne]

@@spiffinz The bet was that Riker would have Data help him find the card. Riker didn't do that, as Data stated. Riker thumbed the card then kept track of it himself.

[@danieldickson8591]

@@BaronRathorne Exactly. Riker had to find the card, but since he always knew where it was it was never lost.

[@fyrestorme]

except the last step was literally just a 33% chance of picking it

[@drakonispahiu2544]

pick one of those // he did it

[@rubenlarochelle1881]

I don't get the trick... Surely Riker made so that the card always remained in the saved part of each halvening, but in the final part he asked Data to choose: he had no 100% guarantee that it would have worked, had he?

[@jfq7223]

He saw that Data chose the right card. Had Data chosen one of the other two Riker would have told him to throw it away. And maybe again, leaving the right card.

[@jaycee330]

@@jfq7223 Basically, the magician's choice, as it's called.

[@AlanCanon2222]

@@jaycee330 Or magician's "force".

[@September2004]

Yeah, notice that when Data picked the right card, he doesn’t show it right away. He looks at Riker first and Riker nods. If it was the wrong card, Riker would’ve just told him to throw it away.

[@FreakyLynx]

I mean Riker still should have won the pot, Data might have figured out how it happened but he still came back to that same card.

[@danieldickson8591]

The bet was that he would find the card. It was never hidden, Riker knew where it was the whole time.

[@U2QuoZepplin]

I was just thinking that out of all the cards playing members of the TNG crew , Data and Riker were the best . And arguably Riker just edged past Data. But I'm not so sure about that now.

[@danieldickson8591]

Riker may have superior instincts and intuition, but Data's observational and odds-calculating skills clearly surpass his.

[@aaronbruceladner1983]

0:37, I Will See your 10, and Raise you 20

[@mmmthatgood]

However!!!!!!! You drew the card!!!! 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@1981bevo]

how does Data win the bet? Riker did exactly as he said he would do. Data knowing how the trick worked was not a condition of the bet.

[@Sadduur]

Yeah I guess! xD apparently Data thought that circumstances warranted him more muni :D

[@martyklestadt6766]

As BaronRathorne stated above... "The bet was that Riker would have Data help him find the card. Riker didn't do that, as Data stated. Riker thumbed the card then kept track of it himself."

[@danieldickson8591]

@@martyklestadt6766 Exactly. You can't find something that was never lost.

[@JohnDrose-mr1fi]

audio is low. or is it just me?

[@hdguppies]

Not paying another 20 was stupid after how many thousands were in there already? Riker sucks at poker.

[@Sadduur]

xD

[@luthercampbell3058]

Sunk Cost fallacy. Or some shit like that I dunno XD

[@stupidnamefilter]

The size of the bets make it clear it wasn't thousands, probably didn't even make it to a hundred. Riker was stone cold bluffing and could not win without raising. He judged no raise was going to move Data out of the pot and the pot odds didn't support the hand he had (nothing). He made the right move. There are bad poker scenes in ST TNG but this was not one of them.

[@rudetc]

Data is playing hard off a 2 A 3 7 K up front.

[@davidhill2020]

String betting AND splashing the pot. Come on, now...the WSOP had been around for decades by this time...

[@DarthPhallix]

How the hell do they let Troi play at all? She’s a goddamned empath, fer fuck’s sake!

[@danieldickson8591]

She doesn't use her empathy in these games. That would be cheating and an invasion of privacy. Remember she's a medical health-care professional, their ethical standards are pretty stringent. Besides, if she used an ability the others didn't have, where would be the challenge or satisfaction if she won?

[@LordTalax]

If Data isn't dealer why does he have the hat on?

[@aleisha1892]

❤ Data.

[@robertwatkins3039]

No string bets please

[@1977rw]

One problem with Data's process. In the end, he told him to pick three and then pick one of the three. Data had a 33% chance of picking his card.

[@michaeldiaz4942]

This was explained in an earlier comment, but basically when Data picked one of the remaining 3 cards, and Riker saw that it was the correct one, he nodded to Data to go ahead and reveal the card. Had Data picked one of the other cards, Riker would have known it wasn't the correct card, and continued to give Data instructions to discard the card he picked and make another choice.

[@1977rw]

@@michaeldiaz4942 That's not how it looked to me. Riker said to pick one of those three, and Data picked one and looked at it immediately. If it was the wrong card, Riker would not have had a chance to say anything because Data was really quick to looking at it. And by saying to pick one of the three, it was an act as if that was the final step in the trick. It goes back to my original statement. Data had a 33% chance of getting the right card. Let's look at it hypothetically. If Data had put his finger on the wrong card and Riker said to toss it and then pick one of the two cards left, and then Data picks the wrong card again and is told to toss it, that is essentially telling Data that he knew that card was his and he was going to do anything to make sure he looked at that one card.

[@MRJK87.]

Sorry data but you still lose the bet. The bet did not include you being or not being able to figure out how it was done, just that you would help find the card. Riker wins the bet. Sorry data.

[@clickrick]

Except that Riker never lost the card - he knew all along where it was, so Data did not help to find it.

[@MRJK87.]

@@clickrick yeah he did

[@petejones879]

Why is data wearing a visor?

[@rockyroad7247]

Style

[@willh1655]

they are playing wrong lol

[@paston6910]

Wait, at the end Data had to choose between 3 cards, yet chose the right one. What would have happened if he chose another?

[@Sadduur]

I guess it was meant to be the "top card" of the 3 you took out, but you're right Riker says "pick one of those", which could effectively ruin the trick :D

[@BaronRathorne]

The 'trick' is based on Riker choosing what to do based on where the card is. Riker chose which of the split decks to discard, for example, not Data. If Data had picked his card in the initial 5 that were to be discarded, the rest would have been discarded instead and the trick would have proceeded from there with those 5. The point was that Riker was keeping track of where the card was and directing his actions and the instructions until Data was left with his card.

[@danieldickson8591]

If Data had not chosen the right card, Riker would just have told him to discard it, and maybe the second one, until he picked the correct one.

[@cosmosorbust]

Riker 'string bets'. This is bad.

[@warrenkener]

uhhhhh did Riker not still win the bet? He did what he bet Data he could do?!

[@Sadduur]

That's true though. :D maybe its because Data in the other hand was able to detect the sleight of hand "exposing the trick".

[@StreakyBaconMan]

Well part of the bet was that he could find the card and make Data help him find the card - Data didn't help Riker find the card because Riker always knew where the card was, and was just creating the illusion that Data had some control over which card was turned over so he could make it look like Data had found his own card and revealed it to Riker.

[@augustday9483]

I'm genuinely curious how Deanna isn't winning every poker night, given that she's an empath and should be able to sense what the other players are feeling.

[@TheRealPDizzle]

It is possible to mask emotions if skilled enough. Being able to feel someone or read their energy isn't the same as being able to read their minds. She's empathic not telepathic. Then again, maybe she just doesn't give a shit about winning, and gains more out of feeling everyone's ups and downs and observing them from the sidelines, being an empath.

[@Jagar_Tharn]

I mean if all you have to do is feel confident to trick her, I would feel confident at all times, because it would be a self-fulfilling prohkfsdlrjsfklnsdgjlzsghkFASEJ i cant type

[@danieldickson8591]

I'm very confident that Deanna doesn't use her abilities in these games, as that would not only be cheating, but an invasion of privacy. Like Superman using his X-Ray vision to read the cards in an opponent's hand. Besides, Deanna's a mental health-care professional, the ethical standards are pretty stringent.

[@Jagar_Tharn]

@@danieldickson8591 Then again, does she really "use" her abilities? Do you have to try to hear things, or do your ears just pick up things even if you wish for silence? How are her powers supposed to work?

[@nicholaskehler9169]

As every fan knows Deanna's powers never work when it matters. I guess the writers thought poker mattered ergo her powers didn't work.

[@joemunch58]

But there's no need for money in that time.

[@Sadduur]

Doesn't prevent them from having fun on a nice poker evening! :)

[@pterodactylptroll]

By this point, Data had been around people for many years and would have understood idioms, slang, and other things specific to human culture. I understand the writers were being cute by showing us an ignorant android who doesn't understand what "throw them away" meand, but it just doesn't make sense.

[@Sadduur]

Maybe Data was already so versed in all those things that it was actually a joke by him? 🤔😋

[@pterodactylptroll]

@@Sadduur possibly, but I think you're giving the writers the benefit of the doubt. 😊

[@Sadduur]

@@pterodactylptroll Just forcing it back to "immersive mode" in my mind 😅

[@clickrick]

Physically throwing the cards away was an improv by Brent Spiner.

[@zip258]

Betazoid looses in poker?

[@Sadduur]

She is just an honorable woman she wouldn't use that advantage ;)

[@yiany]

They should call every hand. There is no money involved. There is no pressure. You have nothing to lose.

[@Sadduur]

Except your honor and dignity. :D They play as if the marks used were real. Even if there is no monetary value, there is a purpose or a goal to achieve: to finish the game with most funny money :)

[@Gunrun808]

Nothing to lose but the game

[@dannygjk]

There is no enjoyment when you don't try to play optimally.

[@Sadduur]

@@dannygjk One could even argue that if a chess match didn't involve money or a title, why would you even try to learn to do the right moves in order to win? xD

[@druss69harad61]

To win.

[@MA-vw1pl]

I never understood why, in a socialist unviverse, these guys played poker. Without any real stakes involved, poker is as interesting flipping a coin

[@Sadduur]

I guess it depends on your perspective. It is an intricate game and if you play as if the marks were real, the interest could be trying to be better and improve your skills. The actual game and activity is the absolute value as is the social aspect that comes with it. Like in the other comment: one could argue that chess or any game where the object is to win would not be interesting if there was no monetary stakes.

[@StreakyBaconMan]

Poker isn't just blind chance - the whole game is about knowing the odds, knowing what the odds are of your hand being the winning hand in that particular round, what the odds are that you can bluff having a certain good hand that nobody will be able to know for a fact you don't have due to their own cards, what are the odds someone else is bluffing having a good hand. You can have the best poker face in the world and you'll lose miserably at poker in the long run if you don't know when you are about to bluff on a hand that other people have calculated is impossible or near impossible for you to win on, or you don't know how high your bet should be on a strong hand because you don't know your odds of it being a winning hand. I don't know anybody who can increase their odds at predicting the outcome of a coin toss without cheating though.

[@deBebbler]

Obviously you have never heard of the concept of "bragging rights".

[@jmackmcneill]

Your saying your life is litterally empty without money riding on a game. That is just the saddest thing I ever heard. People either gamble with money they don't need, in which case it is as meaningless as playing with chips, or they gample with money they actually need, in which case they are idiots.

[@OptimusWombat]

They're not "socialist". They're "post scarcity".

[@MA-vw1pl]

I still can't understand why communists play poker. Its like an Amish videogame....

[@Sadduur]

xD

[@tomg6318]

I don't understand why they play poker when the concept of money no longer exists. Fear and greed were the main part of that game, without that the game is kind of meaningless

[@Sadduur]

Poker is a game of perception, timing and intuition. It matters not if the chips have no other value if they're simply playing to win and to see who has the best poker skills.

[@tomg6318]

@@Sadduur but when you're playing with your own real money your decisions will be different.

[@martyklestadt6766]

@@tomg6318 They shouldn't be. Not if one is playing to win. In my old home game we didn't play for money--just a weekly championship and a season championship. Now I play once a week for money (buy-in is approximately $10). I don't play any differently in this game than I did in my old one.

[@danieldickson8591]

The chips are just a way of keeping score of who's winning, and by how much.

[@martyklestadt6766]

@@danieldickson8591 Yes, the chips are also one's soldiers in the game, kind of like one's armies in a game of Risk.